"garmonbozia" ???
Paul Bauer
it???
Trichome
"Paul Bauer" <pba...@aon.at> wrote:
> is the creamed - corn garmonbozia?
yes, as much as the LMFAP is The Arm.
they are both dead, and now exist on another plane.
Mrs. Tremond's creamed corn came from Donna.
That creamed corn was only a symbol for garmonbozia,
which is itself an abstraction of the concept of pain and
suffering as a discrete, unit of transferable property.
Life gives you creamed corn, people give you creamed corn.
Mr. Robertson gave young Leland plenty garmonbozia.
BOB denies Laura the ownership of her traumatic experiences by
obscuring her memory as to BOB's host.
Mrs. Tremond has had quite enough creamed corn in her own life, thank
you very much!
> When is the word mentioned?
> Who says it???
FWWM: Philip Jeffries' Convenience Store Dream.
(which is actually Dale Cooper's Dream, dreaming up the existence
of "Agent Jeffries" as a projection of himself into the future, as
an FBI agent turned mad by his experiences with Blue Rose cases.)
Sitting on the table next to the LMFAP is a wide, low metal bowl of
creamed corn. The LMFAP and the subtitle say "Garmonbozia".
-----------
FWWM: Final Red Room scene
The LMFAP puts his hand on PMG's shoulder and they say,
("BOB, I want all my garmonbozia" (pain and suffering))
BOB pulls a handful of blood out of Leland, and throws it down,
It becomes creamed corn which the LMFAP "eats"
(by pushing the corn kernels out of his mouth one by one onto
a spoon, but played in reverse, so he is actually
anti-anti-eating the corn seeds).
Then LMFAP turns into the cappuchin (whatever monkey), saying "Judy".
So what is *creamed corn* ?
Let's try and play a happy game that I learned on Sesame Street.
It's called "Three of these Things Belong Together"
(three of these things belong together,
three of these things are kind of the same,
can you tell me which one is not like the others,
and I'll tell you if it is so.)
A list of four things:
Creamed corn, as used as a symbol in TP.
"Mummy wheat," as Windom quoted from the W.B. Yeats couplet:
"When Jupiter and Saturn meet; what a crop of memmy wheat!"
What happened to Leland, Sarah, and Laura Palmer's nuclear family.
and
What happened to the "Chalfont/Tremond" family.
Re: creamed corn: Watch the Donna/Mrs. Tremond scene or read from
the script. Watch the above scenes in FWWM, and see if I missed any
aspects of creamed corn.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mummy wheat" - either wheat kept in a mummy's tomb (pyramid);
or "mummified" wheat.
Wheat was a big grain for those Sun worshippers.
"The word 'pyramid' actually comes from the Greek word 'pyramis'
which means 'wheat cake'."
"Mummified" wheat would be dessicated, dead seed with its "organs"
taken out, as were the organs of the Pharohs in the process of
mummificiation
The crazy pyramid-heads say that, placed under a pyramid,
>"Organic Material Dries rather than Rots
>.....probably the most documented effect....try it yourself with fruit,
>insects, fish, flowers. Time needed to dehydrate will vary depending
> on moisture content and physical size.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We all know what happened to the Palmer family.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where, I ask you, are Mr. "Tremond"
and his daughter?
All we see are a grandmother and a grandson.
What happened to the rest of the family?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Trichome
Spoiler details to my little riddle, from past posts, are to be found
below.
garmonbozia: creamed corn equals "bad seed"; broken kernels of corn,
like the failed heritage through the generations, from Leland to
Laura to Sarah's grandchildren never to be born.
-----------
creamed corn = crushed kernels
= damaged corn DNA
damaged human DNA
BOB creating/harvesting damaged potential in others
through his sex crimes.
No germination, just impotent, spoiled seed.
--------------------
I think garmonbozia, and its precursor(s) come from the mind, in the
substrate where trauma and fetish and confusion become imprinted.
Thus, garmonbozia may be
- experienced by the person in whom it is created
- visited on another, as BOB did (and Laura feared she would to
James or to Donna or Harold)
- or stolen, as when BOB possessed Leland, denying him the life
Leland would have had. And in stealing Leland's memories.
To be denied the knowledge of whom you may have hurt,
that's what having your creamed corn stolen is all about.
----
--
"Some days, I don't feel like doing anything
but sitting around the house and watching Twin Peaks."
- Trent Rezor
Paul Bauer
does he say judy?
"Trichome" <proph...@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:prophit1970-40EA...@nnrp03.earthlink.net...
Trichome
"Paul Bauer" <pba...@aon.at> wrote:
> are you sure, that it is the LMFAP that turns into the monkey?
I should have said something like.
"The LMFAP's mouth and thespoon recede into darkness,
from which the face of a small, black and white faced mammal.
Then we hear the name "Judy" spoken, and the monkey recedes into
the darkness
>why the hell does he say judy?
What does the name Judy, diminuitive of Judith, mean?
All I can find with a quick search is "praised" - which is similar to
Laura, which has the same rooot as laurel, applaud, laudable, and Dick
Laurent.
Jeffries mentions Judy. I think that scene is actually Cooper's
dream, dreaming up the Jeffries character, but that may not matter.
JEFFRIES
I'm not going to talk about Judy. Keep
Judy out of this.
COOPER
But...
Cole calms Cooper.
COLE
STAND FAST, COOP.
JEFFRIES
(pointing at Cooper)
Who do you think that is there?
--------------------------------------------------------
JEFFRIES
I want to tell you everything, but I don't
have a lot to go on. But I'll tell you one
thing: Judy is positive about this.
....------------------------------------------------------
JEFFRIES
(shouting)
NO, NO. I found something... in Seattle
at Judy's... And then, there they were...
Albert is about to say something, but is stopped by Cole's gentle
pressure on his arm.
JEFFRIES
They sat quietly for hours.
53. INT. ROOM ABOVE THE CONVENIENCE STORE - DAY
------------------------------------------------------------
There is a scene omitted from the script in which the desk clerk
could be talking about Judy.
46. INT. BUENOS AIRES HOTEL - DAY
PHILLIP JEFFRIES checks into the hotel.
HEAD CLERK
Here's your key, Mr. Jeffries. I hope you
enjoy your stay here at The Palm
Deluxe.
(grabs a note)
This is for you. The joven... ah... young
lady... she left it.
--------------------------------------------------------
Is Judy another name for someone we know? Or is it a name for a
character we never meet, who has attributes like some of the characters
we do know? It could be a reference to someone in the real world, but I
don't know the sordid details of Judy Garland's life. It could be a
reference to some work of fiction...
I think I like the idea that Judy was the daughter of Mr. and Mrs.
"Tremond", and that he commited incest, and she bore her own brother,
the grandson. That takes the husband and the daughter out of the picture
- either dead, imprisoned, or jush very f*cked up.
Sure it's a flimsy concept, but this is flimsy material.
Hey, Pikemann, you there?
Who was Judith in the Bible?
Trichome
Marcelo E Mazzanti
> is the creamed - corn garmonbozia? When is the word mentioned? Who says
> it???
That word was introduced in the movie Fire Walk With Me, it wasn't in
the series. It's not that garmonbozia and corn are the same thing,
rather they're both a representation (one visual, the other verbal) of
the same concept, which is seemingly the "pain and suffering" gathered
from humans and of which Black Lodge inhabitants feed upon.
From the FWWM screenplay:
ECU - LELAND'S WOUND
Bob heals Leland's wound.
ON THE SCENE.
Gerard and the Man From Another Place speak in unison.
GERARD/THE MAN FROM
ANOTHER PLACE
(subtitled)
(in unison)
Bob, you're not going home without me. I
want all my garmonbozia. (corn)
Though I have no proof whatsoever to support this idea, I also like to
link the corn to the "yellow brick road" from Wizard of Oz, to which
Lynch has done many references in his work. The word "garmonbozia"
itself has a certain ring to it... But this is purely speculation on
my part.
Marcelo E Mazzanti
"That's right, a talking log -
a log that doesn't like to be laughed at."
Marcelo E Mazzanti
> Hey, Pikemann, you there?
>
> Who was Judith in the Bible?
I'm not Pikemann, but Judith was the jewish widow who, saying that she
would betray her own people, got into Holofernes's tent and cut off
his head.
So, she seemed like a traitor to her own people when in fact she saved
them.
Or that's how I remember it. Sorry I can't offer you any URL to the
whole story right now, but I thought you may elaborate some
interesting theory - the material certainly is suggestive about the
Jeffries / Lodge / Judy connection.
The log
>> are you sure, that it is the LMFAP that turns into the monkey?
>
> I should have said something like.
>
> "The LMFAP's mouth and thespoon recede into darkness,
> from which the face of a small, black and white faced mammal.
> Then we hear the name "Judy" spoken, and the monkey recedes into
> the darkness
Anyone else notice that in the conveniance store room, the little boy wears the
mask, and moves it away and we see the monkey?
The log
"War. Huh (good God, y'all). What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Sing it
again. Yeah"
http://www.angelfire.com/ok2/evilontheweb
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/bladerunner
Marcelo E Mazzanti
> Anyone else notice that in the conveniance store room, the little boy wears
> the mask, and moves it away and we see the monkey?
Yes! Since I also think that, at the end, the monkey *is* LMFAP
(though I obviously have no evidence), I'm sure the monkey doesn't
represent one character in particular, but rather some concept or
something. It beats me which -if any-, though.
Ulf
other things) the word garmonbozia, what it comes from and what it
represents in twin peaks, was very thouroughly explained.
Here's the theory, I had stored it on my harddrive. (it was written by
Dr.Morbius by the way)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay...you asked for it. ;-)
Rather than address your concerns point-for-point, I'll just lay out my
whole newly-revised Mike/LMFAP-BOB-Judy-ring theory and hopefully it will be
evident where everything else fits into it. You'd better put on a pot of
coffee because this is going to be long...I even had to break it into
sections with headers. ;-)
* * *
THE WAITING ROOM, BLACK LODGE, AND WHITE LODGE
First, a brief exposition of the likely nature of the Waiting Room, Black
Lodge, and White Lodge. In certain sects of Hindu, Buddhist, and other
eastern cosmologies, existence consists of seven major "planes", which can
be thought of as dimensions. Western new age philosophy generally designates
these planes as follows, from lowest to highest: Physical, Astral, Mental,
Buddhic, Atmic, Anupadaka, Adi. The physical plane is the most dense, and
each successive plane is more subtle and refined, composed of higher
energies vibrating at a higher frequency. Each plane in turn is subdivided
into several regions.
In this scheme the Waiting Room would seem to correspond to the highest
region of the physical plane known as the etheric region. The etheric region
is said to be where the soul usually finds itself immediately upon departing
the body. The departed soul will normally spend a few minutes there before
moving on to higher planes, and usually spends that time observing the
events taking place near its former physical body. This region is usually
experienced as an exact duplicate of the material universe (though it's
actually composed of "etheric matter"), but in many instances it takes on a
more surrealistic appearance. The etheric region is also usually the first
realm encountered during out-of-body and near death experiences. Those who
claim to have visited this region describe its nature as neutral. All of
this fits very well with what we're shown of the Waiting Room.
The Black Lodge undoubtedly corresponds to the lower regions of the astral
plane which are nearest the physical plane. These regions are typically
described as being rife with darkness, despair, and negative entities which
are drawn to the physical plane. It is commonly believed that most of these
entities feed off the emotions or psychic energies generated by beings
living in the physical plane.
The White Lodge would seem to encompass the remaining upper regions of the
astral plane along with the higher planes. It should be noted that the
regions comprising each plane aren't considered as discrete and
well-defined, but rather as constituting a continuum or spectrum of energy
frequencies; thus it appears there is no clear boundary between the Black
Lodge and White Lodge, though we can say that they meet *somewhere* in the
astral plane. The astral plane is therefore not thought of in terms of being
mostly evil or good, nor as being mostly negative or positive. It is better
conceptualized as a cosmic balance point or fulcrum that is constantly in
flux to maintain equilibrium.
Now I can take off my mystic's hat and move on to the nature of Mike and BOB
and their relationship.
THE ORIGINS OF MIKE AND BOB
In the beginning Mike and BOB were independent Black Lodge spirits and as
such indulged in garmonbozia, a very potent variety of psychic energy, like
a drug. ("Garmonbozia" is a ritual magick power-word invented to symbolize
the "negative" emotional energies released by pain, suffering, fear, etc.)
Mike was the more powerful entity of the two and possessed greater magickal
skills and knowledge, having once been a powerful dugpa sorcerer during a
natural incarnation as a human on the physical plane. Mike, like most
magicians, sought to further increase his power by attaining the next degree
or phase of magickal development (initiation). Evidently for a magician of
his level of skill this required much more garmonbozia than he could gather
by his efforts alone. Further complicating attainment of this goal,
garmonbozia is generated solely on the physical plane and is a limited
resource. Though a massive amount of garmonbozia is continuously generated
by myriad beings living on the physical plane, there are several times as
many spirits and entities in the Black Lodge all competing to attach
themselves like leeches to humans and feed on this garmonbozia. Faced with
such obvious difficulties, Mike's best option was to find a skilled
accomplice and descend into the physical plane to *actively cultivate* and
harvest the garmonbozia he needed. We might call this the "grow your own
supply" solution -- Mike decided to become a garmonbozia farmer (or
gardener).
BOB wasn't as ambitious as Mike. He didn't care much about attaining
supernatural powers in the Black Lodge. His motivations were more basic: he
reveled in pleasures of the flesh -- namely the rape, torture, and murder of
humans -- to an extent that far exceeded the usual appetite of Black Lodge
spirits for garmonbozia. He was a hardcore garmonboziaholic and prodigy of
pure evil passionately attracted to the physical plane. To satisfy such
excessive compulsions BOB sought to inhabit a human host. However, he lacked
the proper magickal skills and type of energy required to do so.
THE PACT, ITS SUCCESS, AND THE SCHISM
Mike recognized BOB's unique qualifications and his enormous potential as an
efficient cultivator of garmonbozia; BOB recognized Mike's expertise in
magickal skills he himself was lacking. So to their mutual benefit, Mike and
BOB forged a limited magickal pact. In this supernatural contract, Mike was
required to supply BOB with the refined energy needed to inhabit a human
host while helping him attain the experience and magickal skills to become
capable of synthesizing this energy himself. For his part, BOB was required
to give to Mike a certain percentage of the garmonbozia he cultivated and
harvested until such time that Mike had enough to reach the next stage of
magickal initiation (a further alchemical transmutation of Mike's soul as
per my theory on fire -- but that's a topic for another essay ;-). Mike and
BOB consecrated their pact by marking their left arms with a symbolic seal:
a tattoo reading "Fire Walk With Me". Mike later had this tattooed on
Gerard's arm in the physical world, though this was probably to help anchor
himself within Gerard's psyche since Gerard was an unstable schizophrenic.
After forging their pact Mike and BOB proceeded to sow and harvest
garmonbozia on the physical plane. Mike had already been inhabiting a young
Philip Gerard whom he had chosen as his host because schizophrenics are very
susceptible to influence and manipulation by outside psychic forces.
Gerard/Mike found for BOB a human host amenable to BOB's fledgling skills as
an inhabiting spirit: a vulnerable young boy named Leland Palmer.
Mike possessed the magickal skills to transform raw garmonbozia into refined
garmonbozia. This refined garmonbozia is of course represented by creamed
corn, which Mike canned above the convenience store, stockpiling enough to
catalyze his graduation to the next level of magickal ability. Raw
garmonbozia is sometimes represented by blood, as in the final Black Lodge
scene in FWWM, and possibly represented by fire in certain contexts as well.
Leland/BOB would cultivate and harvest raw garmonbozia, keeping a small
percentage for immediate gratification, and in accordance with the pact
would hand the remainder over to Mike. Using his magickal skills Mike would
then transform it into creamed corn (refined garmonbozia), can it, and
supply a small amount back to BOB who needed this refined energy to inhabit
his human host. Mike also cultivated and gathered garmonbozia through
Gerard, presumably by committing acts of rape, torture, and murder as BOB
did.
A secret magickal lodge was founded by Mike and BOB above the convenience
store to help further their goals, which I shall henceforth call the Green
Lodge. As high magus or priest of the Green Lodge, Mike took on human
apprentices. BOB, not being much of a magician himself, apparently took the
role of treasurer, collecting raw garmonbozia from the initiates as lodge
dues.
Mike and BOB's dark alliance on the physical plane continued successfully
for approximately 35-40 years. For most of this time Gerard/Mike was a
traveling salesman, committing his atrocities far and wide, effectively
leaving a cold trail for authorities. Similarly, Leland/BOB, a lawyer, took
occasional business trips during which he carried out his murderous acts to
avoid suspicion. Both executed their deeds meticulously and kept their
methods very low-key; they left no signature or calling card as BOB brazenly
does later with plastic-wrapped bodies and letters under fingernails.
By the time we join their storyline in FWWM, Mike had almost accumulated
enough garmonbozia to achieve his goal, and BOB's garmonbozia-refining
skills, under the tutelage of Mike, were almost fully developed. Alas, just
before they achieved the goals set forth in their pact a schism occurred. At
some point near the end of their partnership, Mike experienced some sort of
epiphany, perhaps a moral revelation ("...I saw the face of God..."). I
won't speculate on exactly what this might have been. Whatever its nature,
it had such a profound impact on him that he decided he must abandon his
pact with BOB. He then performed a ritual to abolish the pact, cutting off
Gerard's left arm which bore a tattoo that was the symbolic seal of the
pact.
BIRTH OF THE LITTLE MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE
This ritual didn't have the desired effect however. Instead of it being
abolished, the pact had already been invested with so much psychic energy --
by Mike, BOB, and indirectly, the Green Lodge magicians -- that at that
instant it achieved birth as an autonomous psychic entity known in certain
modern magickal systems as an *egregore*. The tattoos became the ritual
sigil of this egregore, and by the act of severing Gerard's arm Mike
inadvertently allowed the egregore to fully manifest because the lifeless
arm provided it with an independent vehicle of human flesh on the physical
plane. (Where the physical arm is actually located is anyone's
guess...knowing Lynch, probably wriggling around in a jar of formaldehyde
somewhere ;-). The egregore is of course the LMFAP.
The LMFAP's sole reason for existence is to bring the pact between Mike and
BOB to fruition regardless of the fact that this had become contrary to
Mike's (and soon BOB's) wishes. This is because, quite simply, the LMFAP
*is* the pact, magickally personified. This is very important because it
explains why he seems at times to be working for someone and at other times
against them. His motive is singular and clear: the impetus set forth by the
pact. As an egregore he is neither an agent of the Black Lodge nor of the
White Lodge, but can nevertheless access these places and work with entities
from both. Therefore the LMFAP should not be thought of as being either good
or evil. He is a diplomat; a mediator -- but he can be a dictator as well
when the situation warrants it. Since he is essentially part Mike and part
BOB, he wields power over both of them.
THE LMFAP AND THE GREEN LODGE
The LMFAP immediately took over from Mike as head of the Green Lodge and set
about coordinating events spanning the past, present, and future in order to
bring about the proper resolution of Mike and BOB's pact. Mike begrudgingly
complied with the LMFAP, wisely realizing he had no choice. It became
obvious to him that he and BOB were bound by the power of the
LMFAP/egregore/pact until the pact reached its proper resolution. Mike was
trapped in a hell of his own making.
BOB naively ignored the inevitable however. Angry over Mike's betrayal, BOB
dishonored the pact as well. (In the FWWM shooting script, BOB proclaims in
the Green Lodge scene, "I have the fury of my own momentum!" He is denying
the validity of the pact and declaring his independence.) Despite not yet
possessing all the magickal skills to convert raw garmonbozia into refined
garmonbozia, BOB was determined to remain on the physical plane without
Mike's help. To obtain the refined energy required to inhabit human hosts,
BOB stole Mike's voluminous stockpile of creamed corn. ("You stole the corn!
I had it canned...above the store!") The power this stolen garmonbozia gave
BOB also allowed him to temporarily resist the LMFAP's power over him. And
under the intoxicating influence of all this garmonbozia, BOB began to take
his lusts to daring new heights of perversion/artistry (take your pick ;-),
devising his twisted letters-under-the-fingernails-of-murdered-teenage-girls
scheme.
The stolen garmonbozia was quite a setback for the LMFAP, so he enlists
outside help. Part of the purpose of the Green Lodge ritual seen in FWWM is
to invoke the aid of a powerful being named Judy in an effort to rein in BOB
and thus all the garmonbozia he owes Mike.
JUDY, THE OWL RING, AND GLASTONBURY GROVE
Before exploring the Green Lodge ritual further, we need a theory that
explains Judy and the owl ring. What I propose for this might seem
extravagant and overly-imaginitive, but please bear with me -- I think it
could evolve into a highly rewarding model.
I believe Judy is a powerful ancient dugpa master operating in the Black
Lodge and on Earth, still in possession of her physical body. From the
viewpoint of certain eastern philosophies (which Lynch, Frost, Engels, et.
al. had firmly in mind), an accomplished black magician of Judy's apparent
stature would have accumulated a colossal karmic debt on her road to power.
This of course means that she has *negative* karma coming to her. (For
simplification, wherever I use "karma" or "karmic debt" in this essay, I
will be referring to *negative* karma.) Left to itself, this karma will
eventually catch up to her, and the larger the debt the sooner that is
likely to happen. The "punishment" due Judy would likely be exceedingly
horrific, and that's probably putting it mildly.
Judy would obviously devise some method to shield herself from this
catastrophic karmic return without having to abandon the path of black
magick. It's impossible to erase one's karmic debt without payment, so her
solution was to master the ability to manipulate variables that influence
the *timing* of karmic forces. Judy learned to indirectly influence how and
when someone receives a karmic return they already have coming to them, and
by careful planning and selection of such targets she is able to disturb the
flow of karmic currents in a manner that indirectly diverts her own karmic
return for prolonged periods.
How does this work? The process is analogous to a lightning storm. The storm
represents the reservoir of karma that is local to the group of people who
are associated with Judy and one another by their interactions. The charge
building in the clouds represents a surplus of karma accumulating in
response to this group's combined karmic debt, and the various spots on the
ground that accumulate a concentrated opposing charge represent individuals
with a karmic debt. Lightning (karma) discharges towards those spots
(individuals) in the storm area that hold the greatest opposing charge
(karmic debt). Judy, the "spot" possessing by far the greatest opposing
charge in this storm area, needs some way to divert the lightning/karma away
from herself and towards those with a lesser charge/debt. It so happens that
spots of lesser opposing charge, *when elevated to a high enough altitude*,
can draw a lightning discharge away from a spot of much greater opposing
charge. What would correspond to this elevation in terms of karma? *Time*,
of course. Enter Jupiter, Saturn, and high magick.
The main instrument Judy uses to implement her karmic deflection scheme on
the physical plane is an enchanted object: the owl ring. The owl ring is a
karmic lightning rod that works by accelerating the flow of time (shortening
the path) between the local karma reservoir and the person wearing the ring
on the physical plane. (This process doesn't distort the flow of time in the
physical universe, but rather in the higher regions and planes.) This means
that for whoever wears the ring, payment on their karmic debt is *greatly*
accelerated. By careful selection of who is to possess the ring during a
certain window of time (when Jupiter and Saturn are in conjunction), the
discharge of the local karmic reservoir will take the path of least
resistance through time and be temporarily drawn away from Judy.
Judy, like the LMFAP, probably has the power to directly change the flow of
time, but she can't use this power for purposes of karmic manipulation
without incurring further karmic debt and thus negating her efforts, so she
must make clever use of existing cosmic forces which are capable of
distorting time, harnessing them with neutral magickal tools such as the owl
ring and Glastonbury Grove.
In astrology and western systems of magick, one of Jupiter's major
metaphysical attributes is its contractive influence, and one of Saturn's is
its expansive influence -- precisely as Agent Cooper informs us in the
series. Jupiter and Saturn are the existing cosmic forces Judy chooses to
harness with her magickal tools to distort time. It must be pointed out that
if Judy were to only use a tool that harnessed *contractive* forces to
accelerate time in one area of the cosmos, this could have severe karmic
repercussions for her because cosmic forces would automatically seek balance
by *expanding* time somewhere else to compensate, and this unpredictable
variable would be a karmic wildcard. So Judy must also create a tool to
control where this complementary expansion is to take place in order to
avoid unintended consequences; in addition, these contractive and expansive
forces that are harnessed must be linked in a directly causal manner in
order for one to fully compensate for the other. How is this to be
accomplished? Judy's solution is simple: conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn
provide the necessary causal connection between these two forces with
respect to effects directed towards Earth; this is when their individual
influences on Earth combine to work in harmony. Judy creates the owl ring to
harness the contractive influence of Jupiter during such conjunctions, and
she creates the sycamore circle at Glastonbury Grove to harness the
expansive influence of Saturn during these conjunctions to "push" (slow down
in frequency/time) a part of the Waiting Room (etheric region) towards
Earth, bringing it into almost direct spatio-temporal contact with Earth at
Glastonbury Grove (this is revealed symbolically by the stylized *green
Saturn* lamp on the end-table in the Waiting Room), making *corporeal*
entrance into the Waiting Room possible from Earth.
[One technical note on the January-June Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in TP:
during the time TP is supposed to have taken place -- winter 1989 -- there
wasn't actually a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the real world. In
fact, exactly the opposite was occurring. It appears the writers concocted
this conjunction as a matter of convenience. They cheated. So we can't use
real-world astronomical data to provide us with clues to interpret the TP
timeline. However, since it's possible in the real world for Jupiter and
Saturn to be in conjunction two years in a row (such as this year and last
year, coincidentally), we can reasonably assume that Teresa obtained the owl
ring and died during a Jupiter/Saturn conjunction occurring one year prior
to the '89 conjunction during which Laura obtained the ring and died -- all
in agreement with the model I have presented.]
As lightning traverses the medium of air to restore equilibrium, so does
karma use the forces of nature and the actions of people as the medium (or
circuit) to attain balance on karmic debts. Judy needs the complicity of
others to carry out the details of her karmic deflection scheme. She cannot
directly give or offer the ring to a target as this would negate her efforts
by incurring further karmic debt upon herself. So after calculating which
karmic streams to influence (aided by information gathered by her spies, the
owls) and devising an appropriate course of action, Judy arranges for the
targets to come into possession of the owl ring by having them "find" it and
take it of their own accord. Consequently this entire process attributes to
Judy any garmonbozia generated by the targets, but partaking of this
garmonbozia would negate her efforts so she defers this liberty by allowing
someone associated with her targets claim this garmonbozia of their own free
will, *in her name*. To facilitate this, Judy offers the services of the owl
ring to others, as we will now see demonstrated in our examination of the
Green Lodge ritual.
THE GREEN LODGE RITUAL
In the Green Lodge scene in FWWM, BOB was attending a regular meeting
(perhaps for no other reason than to collect lodge dues) when the LMFAP,
Mike, and the magicians tricked him and performed a ritual to invoke Judy.
In this ritual the LMFAP takes sole claim on all garmonbozia thereafter
generated by Judy's owl ring. Judy arranges delivery of the owl ring to the
LMFAP at that point in the ritual by having Agent Jeffries find it at her
place in Seattle. When Jeffries finds it, he unwittingly becomes a courier,
teleporting from Judy's to the Green Lodge. (Agent Jeffries is probably used
here simply as a matter of expedience since he was probably investigating
Judy or was otherwise acquainted with her.)
Now aided by the formidable powers of Jupiter harnessed by the ring, the
LMFAP magickally binds BOB to the ring, making him the circuit that
completes the connection between the karmic reservoir and the ring-bearer.
The LMFAP accomplishes this by addressing BOB with the ritual words, "With
this ring, I thee wed". BOB resents this, but even with all the garmonbozia
at his disposal he still cannot match the power of Judy's ring. Pierre
Tremond, one of Mike's apprentices, also takes part in the proceedings by
pointing at BOB and commanding, "Fell a victim," where "fell" is meant in
the same context as "fell a tree".
The effect of the ritual is to bind BOB into the ultimate trap: karmic
forces will discharge through *him* exclusively to deliver karmic return
that is due the "victims" wearing the ring, and he will not be able to use
any of the garmonbozia generated in the process because the power of the
ritual aided by the ring secures that privilege for the LMFAP. This spell
binds BOB to the ring until the pact is completed. The trap is perfect;
sooner or later BOB must give in and hand over to the LMFAP all raw
garmonbozia as well as Mike's refined garmonbozia so the pact can be
resolved.
THE OWL RING AND TERESA
Two years after this meeting, the LMFAP arranges for Teresa to "find" the
ring since Leland is seeing her. Inevitably, the binding spell forces BOB to
kill her, which he nevertheless still enjoys, but he finds he is unable to
absorb her garmonbozia. For BOB, this is like sex without orgasm and this
frustrates him. He probably hopes the ring is disposed of when he leaves it
on Teresa's finger and puts her corpse into the river. But the ring is
recovered from the body, probably from the Deer Meadow Sheriff's morgue by
Pierre Tremond. The LMFAP then arranges for the ring to be transported back
to him by an unwitting Agent Desmond who finds it under the Tremond/Chalfont
trailer. The LMFAP removes Desmond in this manner so that Agent Cooper will
be assigned the case which will later lead to his involvement with the Laura
Palmer case and eventually to an outcome favorable to the completion of the
pact.
THE OWL RING AND LAURA / RESOLUTION OF THE PACT
Now we can analyze the events during and after Laura's murder in the train
car from a much clearer standpoint.
BOB for many years had been grooming Laura to be his next human host. She
was a bountiful source of garmonbozia, but he never intended to murder her.
The LMFAP and Mike however have other plans for her.
BOB begins a ritual in the train car to complete his possession of Laura.
The LMFAP and Mike then intervene and save Laura's soul from BOB by giving
her the owl ring (though it entails her physical death) -- but as should now
be evident, the LMFAP and Mike help Laura here for mostly selfish reasons.
Laura's donning of the owl ring binds BOB against his will into delivering
the full return on Laura's karmic debt by brutally murdering her and
furthermore prevents him from using the copious amount of garmonbozia
harvested from her.
This is the final straw. Leland/BOB enters the Black Lodge to hand over
Laura's garmonbozia, tired of being compelled against his will by the ring,
having realized the futility of trying to escape the pact. He comes to the
realization that he will get what he wants anyway by complying with the
LMFAP/pact and getting it over with. So when Mike/LMFAP demands it, BOB
bites the bullet and gives back all the canned garmonbozia he stole plus
Teresa's and Laura's raw garmonbozia. All this garmonbozia provides enough
to finally fulfill BOB's half of the agreement set forth in Mike and BOB's
pact. Mike takes the refined garmonbozia, and through the LMFAP he refines
and absorbs Teresa's and Laura's raw garmonbozia reserved for him by the
ring, claiming it all by invoking the name of Judy (hence the monkey that
whispers "Judy"). At last, Mike achieves the next level of magickal skill.
To conclude the pact once and for all, he then fulfills *his* last
obligation by providing BOB with the final key to complete his ability to
refine raw garmonbozia for himself, allowing BOB full independence to
inhabit human hosts.
The slate is now clean and the LMFAP moves on to other matters. From this
point on Mike is completely free to pursue the *prevention* of further evil
deeds by BOB, as Mike now devotes himself to the service of the White Lodge
as we see him doing throughout the duration of the series.
* * *
Well, that's it. Maybe I've resorted to extravagant measures to explain Judy
and the owl ring, but hey...I devised a method to cheat karma in the
process...Muauauahahahahaha! (I'd be careful about picking up any rings you
might come across ;-).
I've pretty much omitted supporting references for the sake of brevity since
this reply-cum-essay is already enough of a brain-twisting ballbuster. I may
return to it at some later time to add them in, though it may only add to
confusion.
I'll see you in the trees...
--Dr. Morbius
"Some are Born to sweet delight
Some are Born to Endless Night"
--William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
Trichome
Pikemann Urge <k...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> Marcelo E Mazzanti wrote:
> >
> > Yes! Since I also think that, at the end, the monkey *is* LMFAP
> > (though I obviously have no evidence), I'm sure the monkey doesn't
> > represent one character in particular, but rather some concept or
> > something.
>
> I totally agree. That is the vibe that I get.
Carl Sagan wrote "The Dragons of Eden" about that portion of our
human brains which comes to us from before we split off from the
reptiles. The idea I get from the monkey is similar, like a smaller,
primitive, devolved monkey aspect of our character which emerges from
behind the mask of a normal-looking person.
Trichome,
just struggling with an unanswerable(?)
Michael W. Dean
> Yes! Since I also think that, at the end, the monkey *is* LMFAP
> (though I obviously have no evidence), I'm sure the monkey doesn't
> represent one character in particular, but rather some concept or
> something.
I have my own pet theory on the monkey. Some of you
have heard this before, so just skip to the next post. OK,
they're gone, so off I go: I think Pierre Tremond, the monkey,
and Phillip Jeffries are all one and the same. I think Jeffries
was trapped by the Lodge ("Fell a victim") while off on a Blue
Rose jaunt. Once there, he was reduced to a sort of tran-
cendental childhood state and perhaps placed in the care of
Mrs. Tremond. In Lodge-land, most of us might be looked
at as children in terms of knowledge and experience. OK,
here's what I consider evidence:
-- Phillip and Pierre have the same blonde pompadour, and
Pierre's black suit is very FBI.
-- As mentioned before, Pierre puts on his mask during the
convenience store meeting, and when he removes it it's
monkey time.
-- The monkey talks about Judy. Actually, he seems to be
asking if she's around.
-- Phillip has been to one of their meetings. I didn't see him
there, though, unless the camera was set at his POV. I
did see Pierre, however, with his blonde pompadour and
FBI suit. Might've been what he was wearing when he fell a
victim.
The monkey could well represent the more primitive side
of Phillip's nature, while the soft-spoken Pierre could be the
nobler side of him. True self / shadow self, maybe?
Mike
.......
email: mdean at negia dot net
Marcelo E Mazzanti
[Pikemann]
> > I totally agree. That is the vibe that I get.
I won't insist, but it's frustrating not to get your posts it's like
I'm always losing the piece in the middle...
> Carl Sagan wrote "The Dragons of Eden" about that portion of our
> human brains which comes to us from before we split off from the
> reptiles. The idea I get from the monkey is similar, like a smaller,
> primitive, devolved monkey aspect of our character which emerges from
> behind the mask of a normal-looking person.
But one interesting question is, how does that apply to Lodge
entities? Have they followed the same evolutionary path as people? I'm
thinking specifically about LMFAP since he's the one of whom we
(relatively) know more about.
I'm not talking about biology here, obviously -the monkey's just
another symbol. But can there be a more primitive version of those
entities?
Trichome
"Ulf" <maji...@spray.se> wrote:
snip stuff on mystical planes of existence - it wasn't wrong, but it
wasn't an exact match either
> THE ORIGINS OF MIKE AND BOB
>
> In the beginning Mike and BOB were independent Black Lodge spirits and as
> such indulged in garmonbozia, a very potent variety of psychic energy, like
> a drug. ("Garmonbozia" is a ritual magick power-word invented to symbolize
> the "negative" emotional energies released by pain, suffering, fear, etc.)
> Mike was the more powerful entity of the two and possessed greater magickal
> skills and knowledge, having once been a powerful dugpa sorcerer during a
> natural incarnation as a human on the physical plane.
See, this "dugpa sorcerer" thing doesn't sound at all right to me.
>Mike, like most
> magicians, sought to further increase his power by attaining the next degree
> or phase of magickal development (initiation). Evidently for a magician of
> his level of skill this required much more garmonbozia than he could gather
> by his efforts alone. Further complicating attainment of this goal,
> garmonbozia is generated solely on the physical plane and is a limited
> resource. Though a massive amount of garmonbozia is continuously generated
> by myriad beings living on the physical plane, there are several times as
> many spirits and entities in the Black Lodge all competing to attach
> themselves like leeches to humans and feed on this garmonbozia. Faced with
> such obvious difficulties, Mike's best option was to find a skilled
> accomplice and descend into the physical plane to *actively cultivate* and
> harvest the garmonbozia he needed. We might call this the "grow your own
> supply" solution -- Mike decided to become a garmonbozia farmer (or
> gardener).
I don't know - garmonbozia farmer?
>Mike and
> BOB consecrated their pact by marking their left arms with a symbolic seal:
> a tattoo reading "Fire Walk With Me". Mike later had this tattooed on
> Gerard's arm in the physical world, though this was probably to help anchor
> himself within Gerard's psyche since Gerard was an unstable schizophrenic.
>
> After forging their pact Mike and BOB proceeded to sow and harvest
> garmonbozia on the physical plane. Mike had already been inhabiting a young
> Philip Gerard whom he had chosen as his host because schizophrenics are very
> susceptible to influence and manipulation by outside psychic forces.
> Gerard/Mike found for BOB a human host amenable to BOB's fledgling skills as
> an inhabiting spirit: a vulnerable young boy named Leland Palmer.
As if PMG had anything to do with Mr. Robertson's sexual abuse of Leland!
Not.
> Mike possessed the magickal skills to transform raw garmonbozia into refined
> garmonbozia. This refined garmonbozia is of course represented by creamed
> corn, which Mike canned above the convenience store, stockpiling enough to
> catalyze his graduation to the next level of magickal ability. Raw
> garmonbozia is sometimes represented by blood, as in the final Black Lodge
> scene in FWWM, and possibly represented by fire in certain contexts as well.
to me, this gets sillier and sillier.
I just snipped some really unsubstantiated garbage about a Green
Lodge and a lightning storm/karma analogy.
> In astrology and western systems of magick, one of Jupiter's major
> metaphysical attributes is its contractive influence, and one of Saturn's is
> its expansive influence -- precisely as Agent Cooper informs us in the
> series.
Now we're talking a subject I like.
Contractive and expansive of what, exactly?
Anyone know when and what was said about this?
The word "contractive" doesn't appear in any of my scripts.
>conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn
> provide the necessary causal connection between these two forces with
> respect to effects directed towards Earth; this is when their individual
> influences on Earth combine to work in harmony.
Yeah, but they don't influence Earth directly. What Dr. Morbius
didn't know is that the magnetic pull of these two stirs up the sunspot
vortices, creating more Coronal Mass Ejections which explode out towards
Earth. We see the light from the magnetic explosion in four minutes,
but the massive shockwave of ionized plasma takes between ~40 to 100
hours later.
That's when BOB comes out. When the CME strikes the atmosphere, the
whole force-field planetary magnetic shield gets smushed (I'm still
trying hard to find out the consequences of this severe, temporary
deformation of the magnetosphere). Radioactive ions are dumped from the
Iner and Outer Radiation Belts, down upon us, as the skys tremble
turbulently from above. If you've got enough moisture in a weather
front, that's when you should expect a lightning storm.
> [One technical note on the January-June Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in TP:
> during the time TP is supposed to have taken place -- winter 1989 -- there
> wasn't actually a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the real world. In
> fact, exactly the opposite was occurring. It appears the writers concocted
> this conjunction as a matter of convenience. They cheated. So we can't use
> real-world astronomical data to provide us with clues to interpret the TP
> timeline. However, since it's possible in the real world for Jupiter and
> Saturn to be in conjunction two years in a row (such as this year and last
> year, coincidentally), we can reasonably assume that Teresa obtained the owl
> ring and died during a Jupiter/Saturn conjunction occurring one year prior
> to the '89 conjunction during which Laura obtained the ring and died -- all
> in agreement with the model I have presented.]
If this guy had simply checked the sunspot records, he'd see that the
Sun's activity is nearly as troublesome when Saturn and Jupiter are on
opposite sides. The authors DID know this, and they got it correct.
They didn't "cheat", and "real-world astronomic data" can be used "to
provide us with clues to interpret the TP timeline".
Eventually, if I discipline myself, I'll set up a section in Reznik's
Theosophy website, spelling this Solar puzzle out with URLs and jpegs.
I really do have some real-world important reading to do. I copied 450
pages of medical journals yesterday at the University Library. I'm not
complaining, but I have willfully swamped myself. And since I never
managed to publish a web page before, I hesitate to try again.
>
> * * *
>
> Well, that's it. Maybe I've resorted to extravagant measures to explain Judy
> and the owl ring, but hey...I devised a method to cheat karma in the
> process...Muauauahahahahaha! (I'd be careful about picking up any rings you
> might come across ;-).
>
> I've pretty much omitted supporting references for the sake of brevity since
> this reply-cum-essay is already enough of a brain-twisting ballbuster. I may
> return to it at some later time to add them in, though it may only add to
> confusion.
>
> --Dr. Morbius
I wish he had included the references.
I really can't believe in this essay.
Trichome
Trichome
marcelo....@eresmas.net (Marcelo E Mazzanti) wrote:
> Trichome <proph...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<prophit1970-F6B6...@nnrp01.earthlink.net>...
>
>
> > Carl Sagan wrote "The Dragons of Eden" about that portion of our
> > human brains which comes to us from before we split off from the
> > reptiles. The idea I get from the monkey is similar, like a smaller,
> > primitive, devolved monkey aspect of our character which emerges from
> > behind the mask of a normal-looking person.
>
>
> But one interesting question is, how does that apply to Lodge
> entities? Have they followed the same evolutionary path as people? I'm
> thinking specifically about LMFAP since he's the one of whom we
> (relatively) know more about.
>
> I'm not talking about biology here, obviously -the monkey's just
> another symbol. But can there be a more primitive version of those
> entities?
I put "evolution" in quotes, because that only happens to species,
not individuals. The primitive brain which we share with the monkey
emerges dominant over our more Human whole brain.
I don't think we're talking about a derivative of the Lodge folks;
rather the equivalent of The Arm. An homunculus of sorts.
homunculus (n., pl.) ho·mun·cu·lus
1. an artificially made dwarf, supposedly produced in a flask by an
alchemist.
2. a fully formed, miniature human body believed, according to some
medical theories of the 16th and 17th centuries, to be contained in the
spermatozoon.
An inner self, characterized by the lack of higher thought.
Trichome
--
"Some days, I don't feel like doing anything
but sitting around the house and watching Twin Peaks."
- Trent RezNor (how long have I been missing this "n"?)
Trichome
Pikemann Urge <k...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> > And since I never
> > managed to publish a web page before, I hesitate to try again.
>
> It's piss-easy. The toughest bit might be using an FTP program, but once
> it's set up you never have to mess with the technical stuff again.
I was running FTP clients five years before the Web existed.
There's something about the conceptualization which I can't get
beyond. I have always had this problem with creative projects. I'm much
better at analyzing or tweaking existing ideas. Those who can't, teach.
Reznik offered that he might give some of my content a home on his TP
"Theosophy" website. I'd actually have to polish up my content, and
there's so much medical reading I need to get to.
Trichome
--
"Some days, I don't feel like doing anything
but sitting around the house and watching Twin Peaks."
- Trent RezNor
Thomas Michanek
>
>
> > to me, this gets sillier and sillier.
>
I don't see why this is any sillier than, say, what Bob Engels or
Mark Frost revealed in some interview back in 1991 or 1992:
that Mike and BOB came from another planet, a planet of corn...
BOB stole Mike's corn and went to earth, and Mike followed him.
I have seen at least two separate references to this idea
(which doesn't make it true, of course). It was discussed in
this group back in 1992 (I still have the articles somewhere).
I found another reference in an article from 2000:
"A reader wrote about the whole creamed corn planet thing in an old issue
of Wrapped in Plastic. Apparently he had gone to a lecture by Robert Engels
who brought it up."
(Google is your friend, although with a fairly short memory)
/Thomas
Joshua Zyber
news:WLdx7.1$x5...@newsb.telia.net...
> I don't see why this is any sillier than, say, what Bob Engels or
> Mark Frost revealed in some interview back in 1991 or 1992:
> that Mike and BOB came from another planet, a planet of corn...
> BOB stole Mike's corn and went to earth, and Mike followed him.
>
> I have seen at least two separate references to this idea
> (which doesn't make it true, of course). It was discussed in
> this group back in 1992 (I still have the articles somewhere).
It is generally acknowledged that, if indeed one of them did say something
like this (there was never any proof), they were probably joking.
You may also be thinking of the notorious "Swedish Interview" that Lynch
supposedly gave for Swedish television, explaining that his intention all
along was for all of the characters in the town to be revealed as space
aliens. The existense of this interview was fraudulent, however, and the
rumor was debunked soon after it started. Yet somehow it persists.
- Josh
damnfine
> You may also be thinking of the notorious "Swedish Interview" that Lynch
> supposedly gave for Swedish television, explaining that his intention all
> along was for all of the characters in the town to be revealed as space
> aliens. The existense of this interview was fraudulent, however, and the
> rumor was debunked soon after it started. Yet somehow it persists.
Really? I heard about the space aliens comment AGES ago but I never knew the
interview was phoney. I always told myself it was just Lynch fucking with
people who were asking him annoying questions!
--
/^\damnfine/^\
"If anyone needs me, I'll be... surprised."
Thomas Michanek
> like this (there was never any proof), they were probably joking.
"generally acknowledged", by the TP fan community? hehe... :-)
Seriously, I do remember the discussions about a possible joke,
but at least one of the sources was sure it wasn't so. If you
can provide more substance to the claim about a joke, feel free
to do so. Personally, I do think there is some truth to it,
even though it may have been just a single person's idea, or an
idea among many others by the team Engels/Peyton/Frost/Lynch.
> You may also be thinking of the notorious "Swedish Interview" that Lynch
> supposedly gave for Swedish television,
Nope, I know about that one too. It was quite interesting to not watch.
/Thomas
(watching Swedish television)
Keith Gow
<thomas....@telia.com> waxed lyrical:
>> It is generally acknowledged that, if indeed one of them did say something
>> like this (there was never any proof), they were probably joking.
>
>"generally acknowledged", by the TP fan community? hehe... :-)
>Seriously, I do remember the discussions about a possible joke,
>but at least one of the sources was sure it wasn't so. If you
>can provide more substance to the claim about a joke, feel free
>to do so. Personally, I do think there is some truth to it,
>even though it may have been just a single person's idea, or an
>idea among many others by the team Engels/Peyton/Frost/Lynch.
You have *no proof* that comment **wasn't** a joke and it seems more
likely that it *was*... why persist in believing something that is so
utterly ridiculous?
-- Keith Gow --
"Missed it by *that* much."
"I asked you not to tell me that!"
Julia Neville
anchor
> > himself within Gerard's psyche since Gerard was an unstable
schizophrenic.
I thought it was disassociative identities that P. Gerard was suffering
from? I'm sorry, I'm not sure if this was covered in FWWM, I haven't seen
that yet, but judging by the series only, his only mental problem was Mike
himself.
Marcelo E Mazzanti
> I thought it was disassociative identities that P. Gerard was suffering
> from? I'm sorry, I'm not sure if this was covered in FWWM, I haven't seen
> that yet, but judging by the series only, his only mental problem was Mike
> himself.
This is the same time I say this to you today (people will talk :) ,
but you're so right!
There's nothing in FWWM that adds to Mr Gerard's illness.
At least where I live, the usual, wrong idea, is that schizophrenia
and dissociative identities are the very same thing.
Marcelo E Mazzanti
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
Julia Neville
Red Room... I'm trying to figure this out now, is this supposed to mean that
MIKE IS Gerard? I mean, when Leland entered the Red Room, he split into
Leland and BOB, if MFAP is the personification of Gerard/MIKE's arm, then
he's not the inhabiting spirit, just a lost fragment of it, therefore, why
does MIKE not split from Gerard in the Red Room? Could it be that Gerard
really is MIKE? MIKE may have just developed a second personality to hide
from the guilt caused by the killing that he and BOB committed, and
convinced himself that he too is an inhabiting spirit?
-Gregg
Trichome
"Julia Neville" <Nevil...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> I just saw FWWM, I noticed that Gerard looked exactly like himself in the
> Red Room... I'm trying to figure this out now, is this supposed to mean that
> MIKE IS Gerard?
MIKE looks like Gerard.
He is a spiritual aspect of Gerard,
but he is not the PMG of the material world.
>I mean, when Leland entered the Red Room, he split into
> Leland and BOB,
Leland was sexually abused, and BOB entered him.
Perhaps the source of pre-accident Gerard's evil spirit
was genetic, rather than from some external evil force.
That's how their occupying spirits could have different
appearances.
> if MFAP is the personification of Gerard/MIKE's arm,
>then he's not the inhabiting spirit, just a lost fragment of it,
Yes, and the evil does not appear to be in either PMG, Mike, or
the Arm, after the dismemberment. The evil went the way of PMG's
spilt blood.
>therefore, why
> does MIKE not split from Gerard in the Red Room?
In the Red Room when Leland enters, the script names "Gerard",
but I don't think the material world host PMG has actually entered
the room. I see two pieces, Mike and the Arm, both already in the
spiritual plane.
> Could it be that Gerard
> really is MIKE? MIKE may have just developed a second personality to hide
> from the guilt caused by the killing that he and BOB committed, and
> convinced himself that he too is an inhabiting spirit?
>
> -Gregg
The Gerard we know is a new persona, or perhaps a return to a
long-suppressed good side. I bet, with his medications in place,
PMG would like to forget about the crimes he has commited.
But MIKE will not be satisfied with amnesia. He wants to prevent
new abuse, to make amends for his evil deeds with good ones in the
same vein.
Making MIKE the more "real" persona doesn't add anything for me,
and I don't see any evidence for it (though I acknowedge the role
guilt plays in PMG's character).
Trichome
--
"Some days, I don't feel like doing anything
but sitting around the house and watching Twin Peaks."
- Trent Reznor
Marcelo E Mazzanti
This has been another of the big debates here for the longest time.
My own personal idea (which is insatisfactory to many) is that, well,
explanations be damned, when you've got Al Strobel, you just don't
look for another actor to play your creepy counterpart!
But apart from that, my "second theory" (which is also insatisfactory
to many, but hey) is that, along the lines of what you say, there's
never been a "real" Gerard. He's always been Mike. I don't know if the
idea that an inhabiting spirit can develop a mental disorder similar
to the main character(s) in Lost Highway makes any sense at all, but
yes, I think the guilt -or something- made Mike, after his crisis,
develop the character PM Gerard, who for some reason has never seemed
"real" to me. Maybe to convince himself that he *really* got rid of
his evil side after the amputation.
Mind you, of course there's nothing in the series that explicitly says
any of this, so any idea to the contrary is at least equally valuable.
doppelganger_79
> > Red Room... I'm trying to figure this out now, is this supposed to mean that
> > MIKE IS Gerard?
>
> MIKE looks like Gerard.
> He is a spiritual aspect of Gerard,
> but he is not the PMG of the material world.
Leland is able to enter the Lodge as a vessel, why can't PMG? The
true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
> > if MFAP is the personification of Gerard/MIKE's arm,
> >then he's not the inhabiting spirit, just a lost fragment of it,
>
> Yes, and the evil does not appear to be in either PMG, Mike, or
> the Arm, after the dismemberment. The evil went the way of PMG's
> spilt blood.
Humbug! the LMFAP is evil, but he is impotent evil. Mike's evil
culminated in his left arm - when an arm is dismembered it becomes
useless. It is still an arm but it can't function it's regular tasks.
When Mike cut off his arm we became two beings: The LMFAP who is
impotent, and the JMFAP who is active (hence jumping). The JMFAP is
Mike. A post-evil Mike, if-you-will.
> >therefore, why
> > does MIKE not split from Gerard in the Red Room?
>
> In the Red Room when Leland enters, the script names "Gerard",
> but I don't think the material world host PMG has actually entered
> the room. I see two pieces, Mike and the Arm, both already in the
> spiritual plane.
PMG and Mike don't need to split. In fact they join with the LMFAP.
It's not an automated split for Lelend and Bob - it is functional.
Meanwhile...
^O^
Mindy
> Leland is able to enter the Lodge as a vessel, why can't PMG? The
> true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
Excuse me?!
Maybe I'm not thinking clearly (it's the rum!!) and remembering right, and
I don't feel like checking the tape right now, but isn't the jumping person
Pierre?
doppelganger_79
> > true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
>
> Excuse me?!
>
> Maybe I'm not thinking clearly (it's the rum!!) and remembering right, and
> I don't feel like checking the tape right now, but isn't the jumping person
> Pierre?
Well he dresses as the jumping man, but in the convenience store scene
I am referring to the screaming, jumping man who wears red and looks
like a larger version of the LMFAP.
Meanwhile...
^O^
Mindy
>> > Leland is able to enter the Lodge as a vessel, why can't PMG? The
Yes, I just woke up and thought about this and immediately had a brief
flash of that guy. I was thinking of where Pierre is jumping, when Black
Dog Runs at Night plays...
--
~Mindy~
doppelganger_79
> > I am referring to the screaming, jumping man who wears red and looks
> > like a larger version of the LMFAP.
> >
> Yes, I just woke up and thought about this and immediately had a brief
> flash of that guy. I was thinking of where Pierre is jumping, when Black
> Dog Runs at Night plays...
We could start calling Pierre the JBFAP (= the jumping BOY from another place).
Nah, let's keep calling him Pierre.
Meanwhile...
^O^
Trichome
doppelg...@yahoo.com (doppelganger_79) wrote:
> > > I just saw FWWM, I noticed that Gerard looked exactly like himself in the
> > > Red Room... I'm trying to figure this out now, is this supposed to mean
> > > that
> > > MIKE IS Gerard?
> >
> > MIKE looks like Gerard.
> > He is a spiritual aspect of Gerard,
> > but he is not the PMG of the material world.
>
> Leland is able to enter the Lodge as a vessel, why can't PMG?
In FWWM, because we don't see it happen, it probably didn't
happen.
>The true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
Mike is a spirit. Which other spirits have a secret "true face"?
> > > if MFAP is the personification of Gerard/MIKE's arm,
> > >then he's not the inhabiting spirit, just a lost fragment of it,
> >
> > Yes, and the evil does not appear to be in either PMG, Mike, or
> > the Arm, after the dismemberment. The evil went the way of PMG's
> > spilt blood.
>
> Humbug! the LMFAP is evil, but he is impotent evil. Mike's evil
> culminated in his left arm - when an arm is dismembered it becomes
> useless. It is still an arm but it can't function it's regular tasks.
Right, but what are the evil acts commited by the LMFAP?
I agree he's impotent.
Ohhhhhh, the spilt blood is like the creamed corn.
They both have toxins, metals in them that make them polluted.
Mrs. "Tremond" doesn't want to eat it
Garmon is a Welsh man's name, and a surname.
"Bo-" ? "Boz"- ?
"-ia" makes it a noun.
"Bozia" is a word in Polish, maybe Slovak, too.
Below are representations of reverse glass paintings on glass.
The circular pendants as called Bozias which were once made by
jewelers for pilgrims visiting the shrine of the Black Madonna.
Each Bozia is 1" in diameter.
Nomi: Garmon, Germain, Germaine, German, Germana, Germano, Germanu,
Germanus, Germentsje, Germina, Ghjermana, Ghjermanu, Guermana,
Guermane, Guermoussia, Jermen.
Boese, that is "bose" with an umlaut on the "o", means bad, evil
in German.
If I knew how to spell in Polish what sounds like "bozia",
I'd be able to look that up.
Too many "garmon"s to tell what's intended.
> When Mike cut off his arm we became two beings: The LMFAP who is
> impotent, and the JMFAP who is active (hence jumping). The JMFAP is
> Mike. A post-evil Mike, if-you-will.
No, Mike looks like PMG.
We see him in the Waiting Room next to the LMFAP.
A post-evil Mike looks like PMG.
> > >therefore, why
> > > does MIKE not split from Gerard in the Red Room?
> >
> > In the Red Room when Leland enters, the script names "Gerard",
> > but I don't think the material world host PMG has actually entered
> > the room. I see two pieces, Mike and the Arm, both already in the
> > spiritual plane.
>
> PMG and Mike don't need to split. In fact they join with the LMFAP.
Only one joins with the LMFAP,
and that's Mike, not PMG.
Trichome
--
"Its hard to kill a man who can stand on one foot."
- Ronnie Rocket screenplay
doppelganger_79
>
> In FWWM, because we don't see it happen, it probably didn't
> happen.
But we did see it happen.
And we see it again when Senor Droolcup enters the lodge.
> >The true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
>
> Mike is a spirit. Which other spirits have a secret "true face"?
!? It's really quite simple. Bob hides behind Leland, and only shows
us his true face in the mirror. Mike hides behind PMG, and never
shows us his true face.
> Right, but what are the evil acts commited by the LMFAP?
> I agree he's impotent.
It's his very impotency which prohibits him from COMMITTING evil acts.
But he still feeds off Garmonbozia.
> > PMG and Mike don't need to split. In fact they join with the LMFAP.
>
> Only one joins with the LMFAP,
> and that's Mike, not PMG.
Okay, but you haven't begun to convinve me why it can't be both Mike
and PMG in the lodge. So far you've just disagreed.
Meanwhile...
^O^
Trichome
doppelg...@yahoo.com (doppelganger_79) wrote:
> > > Leland is able to enter the Lodge as a vessel, why can't PMG?
> >
> > In FWWM, because we don't see it happen, it probably didn't
> > happen.
>
> But we did see it happen.
>
> And we see it again when Senor Droolcup enters the lodge.
When I say "Entering the Lodge," I'm thinking about Jeffries,
Leland, and BOB (coming out), and Windom and Annie, and Cooper.
Sr. Droolcup has a spirit aspect, but his spirit is good and
looks as kindly as he does.
A spirit with an aspect like that of PMG was seen in the Lodge.
Am I misremembering FWWM? do we actually see PMG making the
transition from this plane into the Etherial?
> > >The true face of Mike is the Jumping Man From Another Place.
> >
> > Mike is a spirit. Which other spirits have a secret "true face"?
>
> !? It's really quite simple. Bob hides behind Leland, and only shows
> us his true face in the mirror. Mike hides behind PMG, and never
> shows us his true face.
I'll repeat. Which SPIRIT has a secret face?
Leland has a secret face, but he's no spirit.
BOB is Leland's secret face, not t'other way around
Why should PMG have Mike as a secret face, while Mike himself has
the JMFACS as his secret face?
Other spirits to choose from include: Above the Convenience
Store, Sr. Droolcup, Mike, DoppleLeland (? depends on where you
think his spirit ended up), Windom?
> > Right, but what are the evil acts commited by the LMFAP?
> > I agree he's impotent.
>
> It's his very impotency which prohibits him from COMMITTING evil acts.
> But he still feeds off Garmonbozia.
I suppose that doesn't sound like a very nice thing to consume.
And to take someone else's, that's not nice.
Is that a tin pan, holding the garmonbozia?
Tin's not good to eat.
When the LMFAP sucks up the "pain and suffering", he is really
expelling it in reverse. Time has shifted, and the corn is actually
coming from the Arm. In the past, PMG's arm created garmonbozia.
Maybe the LMFAP's red, and the red of the curtains, is a blood.
I think I have a middle ground:
The Arm is not only impotent, he's passive, too.
He's evil, okay; but not a force for evil.
It's a rather restricted evil, for an evil character.
> > > PMG and Mike don't need to split. In fact they join with the LMFAP.
> >
> > Only one joins with the LMFAP,
> > and that's Mike, not PMG.
>
> Okay, but you haven't begun to convinve me why it can't be both Mike
> and PMG in the lodge. So far you've just disagreed.
It would seem to me that the burden is on you to point to the
shots that indicate to you that the material PMG was transported to
the Waiting Room.
I was trying to provoke you into providing evidence that you
seemed to remember, but haven't shared.
Trichome
--
DAN "Bob . . . I think there could be a different kind of electricity...
Do you think there could be a different kind of electricity?"
BOB "I don't think so . . . but maybe."
DAN "Isn't that what I just said!!!"
doppelganger_79
> the JMFACS as his secret face?
Sorry, my bad. I think that Mike IS the JMFAP. We hear Mike's voice
through PMG, but we never see his face. I am not suggesting MIKE has
a secret face at all. I'm just suggesting that we never see MIKE in
spirit form until the convenience store scene.
> > It's his very impotency which prohibits him from COMMITTING evil acts.
> > But he still feeds off Garmonbozia.
> I think I have a middle ground:
>
> The Arm is not only impotent, he's passive, too.
> He's evil, okay; but not a force for evil.
> It's a rather restricted evil, for an evil character.
I think we agree.