rec.models.rockets FAQ Part 12 - Ignition and Launch Systems
Wolfram v.Kiparski
Rec-models-rockets-archive-name: rockets-faq/part12
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1996 January 9
URL: http://dtm-corp.com/~sven/rockets/rmrfaq.toc.html
Rec.Models.Rockets Frequently Asked Questions: PART 12 of 14
IGNITION AND LAUNCH SYSTEM TIPS
[Note: This portion of the FAQ is maintained by Jerry Irvine
(jjir...@cyberg8t.com).
All comments and suggestions should be sent to him.]
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12.1 Copperhead, squib, electric match, thermalite, flash bulb.
What are all these types of igniters, how much current do they require,
and when are they used?
Copperhead used to ignite single composite motors; not
good for clustering. They will light most
black powder motors. Requires strong 12V
current source.
Electric Match a type of electric igniter requiring
little current to ignite. As little as 200ma
of current will set them off. Used for
igniting high power motors and motor clusters.
Thermalite a type of "igniter cord" used in pyrotechnic
applications. May be ignited by removing all of
the external bridge wired except one and using
wire wrap wire leads 1/4" apart 12v, or with an
igniter. Used in longer lengths and sheathed near
propellant cores it is used for clustering. Also
used in flashbulb ignition systems.
Firestar Igniter kit which has proven popular in general
use and is easily shippable. Uses low or high
current (6-12v) depending on which bridge wire
you dip in the parially pre-mixed solution you buy.
Flashbulb/thermalite some types of camera flashbulbs ignite
with very little current (typically as
little as 50ma) and burn very hot. These
are used to ignite a piece of thermalite fuse
running into the motor. Used for igniting
high power motors and all forms of clusters.
Magnelite medium to high current requirements. Sold
by Rocketflite to ignite Silver Streak
motors. Work well to ignite single high
power motors. These are magnesium tipped
igniters that burn at a very high temperature.
In general, almost any current source from a 1.5V 'C' battery up might
ignite a flash bulb or electric match. For the other igniters, a 12V
system capable of delivering several amps of current to the igniter is
required.
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12.2 How do those 'Copperhead' igniters work? They only have one wire?
Copperhead igniters are actually two strips of copper wire with a
thin mylar insulating layer between them. To use these with regular
alligator clips you need to use masking tape to insulate opposite sides
of the igniter from each clip.
'Thin' (side) view of copperhead igniter:
| |
|______| < Motor with Copperhead inserted
||
Masking > ||
tape > ||
||
||< Masking
||< tape
||
Attach one alligator clip at each masking tape point, so that each clip
only makes contact with one (opposite) side of the igniter.
The Quest 'Tiger Tail' igniters are the same type of igniters as
Copperheads. They come with a special 'wrapper' with openings for
alligator clips.
NOTE: Copperhead igniters require a 12 volt ignition system.
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12.3 I've heard that Copperhead igniters are 'unreliable' for igniting HPR
motors. Is that true?
Many HPR flyers do not like the Copperhead igniter, preferring alternatives
when they can be found. It is certain that Copperhead igniters are not
a good choice for igniting clusters. However, some have found the
Copperhead to be a reliable igniter for single-motor HPR rockets.
From: dcr...@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Elmer M. Price)
Hi Folks: I have a comment on the reliability of Copperhead igniters.
Our small group has had no problems with these, once we figured out the
best way to use them. So, in spite of all the negative comments, we
actually really like these things. We have launched composites up to
and
including I-sized motors with great reliability. For example, two weeks
ago, two of us (at the excellent St. Louis launch), launched two I284
birds, one I161, one I211, two H123 and a few F's and G's. We had 100%
igniter success.
O.K. So what do we do to achieve such reliability? First, open the
reload pack and assemble the motor in the usual manner. Second, find
the
Copperhead that came with the reload kit and THROW IT AWAY. What we use
are Copperheads which we purchase separately. These arrive from the
dealer (like Magnum) in a nice package and the igniters are not all beat
up and crimped and bent to heck like the ones which are provided in the
reload kit. We feel this is an important point. Second, since the H and
I (and larger) motors are a bit more difficult to light, we modify the
new Copperhead as follows (this idea came from RMR): take a slug of
white lightning propellant (we use the slug from a D9) and cut a very
small sliver (and I mean small, about 1/16 inch square and about 1/2
inch
long). Tape this sliver (Fred from our group optimized this point) to
the Copperhead by overlapping the bottom half of the pyrogen on the
Copperhead with the top half of the sliver. Use a small strip of
masking
tape to attach the sliver to the copper below the pyrogen. The point
here is to ensure the tape is below the area where the pyrogen and the
sliver overlap. This is important because if the tape is higher up the
igniter, the sliver may fall off of the Copperhead and lead to a chuff
(ignition too far aft).
This modification is not necessary for G and smaller motors, since the
pyrogen is in close proximity (or touching) the propellant.
And this was added by: bd...@fly.HiWAAY.net (Brian Day)
I've also gotten *MUCH* better reliability from Copperheads by not using
the red plastic cap over the nozzle, and just using a small piece of
masking tape to hold the igniter in place. This technique doesn't crimp
the Copperhead like the plastic cap does. Since doing this, I've gone
from roughly 50% reliability to darned near 100%.
Oh yeah, someone else on rmr recently suggested clipping off the pyrogen
part of an old, crummy Copperhead and using it to augment another
one, like
you do with your sliver of propellant. Beats throwing it away...
Finally, regarding the red caps provided with Aerotech motors for holding
in the igniters,
From: Bob Kunz <bk...@boi.hp.com>
You do know that one is supposed to provide a vent in the red cap? I
would
presume this is to allow some leakage of pressure but enough to get the
white/blue/black propellant to ignite. Typically, I find that the red
cap
is blown through when I recover the rocket. Only once was it blown
off at
the launch pad. So far in about a dozen launches on RMS 24/80, I've
had no
failures. But sure those are small grains compared to some of the 54mm
stuff.
From: cur...@telerama.lm.com (Larry Curcio)
Copper Head igniters have acquired reputations for unreliability. I'm
wondering if the problem is in the igniters or in the red nozzle
caps, which blow off during most Copper Head failures. IMHO, it's the
sudden release in pressure that makes ignition fail - by disrupting the
newly forming flame. When I use a piece of masking tape instead of a cap,
I don't seem to have the problem.
Editor's note (jjir...@cyberg8t.com):
As of 11-96 Aerotech has made some efforts to eliminate the microshort
problem which is an artifact of the Coppercrap manufacturing process.
They have tried making versions with thicker insulator layers.
While they are more fragile and subject to peeling, they are more
reliable than before. Time will tell.
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12.4 Do you have any specific suggestions or tips for an ignition power
sources? Can I use my old Estes ignition system with composite models?
The Estes, Quest and other model rocket launch systems are fine for most
model rockets. If you do a lot of flying there have been some suggestions
posted to the net. If you are trying to launch cluster models with solar
igniters you will need more 'juice' than 4 AA batteries can provide. This
is also true of clustered Copperhead type igniters.
From: c...@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
A motorcycle gel cell, however, will last a long, long time.
Our club uses a gel-cell the size of three VHS tapes to launch 120
rockets over six hours, and it comes home at about 80% charge.
From: bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Bill Nelson)
I bought a 12 volt motorcycle battery for about $20. I only need to
recharge it 3 or 4 times a year. I have adapted all my launch
controllers to allow usage of the battery.
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12.5 WARNING: Be very careful using any ignition system with 'flashbulb' or
electric match type igniters.
Many (most?) launch ignition systems are not 'flashbulb safe'. Just
arming the circuit (i.e., doing a continuity check) will fire the
flashbulbs and ignite the motor. If you plan to use flashbulb ignition
often, you might consider investing in a 'flashbulb safe' ignition system.
From J.C...@ens.prime.com (Jim Cook):
A lot of launch systems use a light bulb to do a continuity check.
The current through the light bulb is enough to set off flash bulbs
(They require only milliamps to fire).
Remember that electric matches may ignite on any amount of current above
200 milliamps. Flashbulbs may ignite with as little as 50 milliamps of
current.
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12.6 The ignition of rockets by other than electrical means is banned by both
the NAR and Tripoli safety codes and should not be used.
There was a fairly lengthy discussion in r.m.r about the use of hand-lit
fuse to launch rockets. Although there was an advocate of this method the
consensus opinion of the net was that the NAR and Tripoli safety codes
made good sense, hand-lit fuse igniters were unsafe, and electrical
ignition (even if igniting fuse by electrical means) should be used for
all activities. Hand-lit fuses are also against most state laws.
While it is theoretically safe and practical, it goes against the
principal of self regulation which has made model rocketry legal and
available natonwide and worldwide. Just don't do it.
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12.7 What is thermalite fuse and how is it involved in igniting rocket motors?
Thermalite is is a brand name for igniter cord from CXA Ltd of Canada.
It comes in three burn rates, identiflyable by the color of the fuse
wrapping:
Color Type Burn Rate Usage
Pink Slow 20 sec/foot Flashbulb ignition
Green Medium 10/sec/foot Ignition enhancement
White Fast 5 sec/foot Not used much in rocketry
The burn rates are approximate and vary with humidity, temperature, age
of fuse, etc. The numbers also correspond to burn rates of exposed
thermalite. When enclosed in heat-shrink or Teflon tubing, all three
types burn at an equally fast rate. A typical usage for thermalite is
in a flash bulb igniter:
| < 1/2 to 3/4 inch of thermalite exposed out
| < end of sheathing
|||
||| < thermalite fuse in Teflon or heat-shrink
||| < tubing (fuse should *just* fit into tubing)
|||
|||
+ |
+ +| < 1/2 to 3/4 inch thermalite exposed out end
flash bulb > + +| < of sheathing and taped to flash bulb using
+ + < CELLOPHANE tape (NOT masking tape).
+
/ \
/ \ < electrical leads to ignition system
The fuse is sheathed except for about 3/4" at each end. The sheathed fuse
is inserted into the motor and must be long enough for the exposed end to
go all the way up through the core and out the bottom of the motor.
Composite motors are ignited at the top of the core (nearest the delay
charge). The sheathing on the fuse is to keep from igniting the motor
anywhere but the correct location. The other end of the fuse is tape to
a hot-burning flash bulb. The flash is then attached to the ignition
system and ignited in the normal fashion. This lights the thermalite
fuse, which then ignites the motor.
This is the ignition method of choice for clustered composite motors (in
any number above 1) and large clusters of black powder motors.
WARNING: Flash bulbs require VERY LITTLE current to set them off. Read
the warnings above.
NOTE: Thermalite is classified by the BATF as a 'Class B Low Explosive'.
Out of state purchase, interstate transport, and personal storage
of *any* amount of thermalite fuse requires a Federal Low Explosives
User Permit. Refer to the section on 'High Power Rocketry' for
more details on LEUPs.
This is a change of prior enforcement practice and this material
was widely available as a Class C item for decades. We will see how
long this will last. Several advocates of easy access have
suggested
that short lengths of under 12" should be exempt from LEUP and
shipping restrictions, especially those pieces included as stock
igniters with MR and HPR motors from the factory.
Thermalite is one of those magic and critical substances to
rocketry.
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12.8 How do you ignite second stage composite motors?
Can I use a black powder booster for the first stage to ignite the
second (as I do with multi-state A-D rockets)?
Upper stages of composite powered models may be ignited by
electrical means or thermalite fuse. North Coast Rocketry (NCTRA2) and
California Rocketry (AIR-3) have technical reports covering this subject.
Excellent articles have also appeared in Sport Rocketry/AmSpam and
HPRM magazines.
You cannot use a black powder booster to ignite a composite upper
stage. The gasses from a BP booster will not properly ignite a
composite. There are composite boosters on the market. These boosters
are all 'plugged' and so cannot ignite any type of upper stage motor.
Composite motors are mostly 'core burners' with the core running the
entire length of the fuel grain. A composite core burner set up like a
BP booster would ignite a BP upper stage too soon.
There are several issues involved in igniting upper stage composite
motors. (1) A timing method must be provided to delay ignition until
the appropriate time, (2) power source for the igniter is required and (3)
the igniter itself must be provided and be capable of igniting high power
motors. Whatever method of ignition is chosen, all 3 criteria must be
met.
Timing Methods ....
Several methods of timing have been developed and used. The earliest and
cheapest timing method is to use a length of unsheathed thermalite fuse.
The fuse is typically ignited by the exhaust from the first stage motor.
The fuse is long enough to allow for the first stage motor burn time and
any desired post-burnout coast. The last portion of the fuse is sheathed
and inserted into the upper stage motor to act as the igniter. The problem
with this method is that not all thermalite burns at the same rate. Also,
the same batch of thermalite will burn at different rates depending on the
altitude, temperature and humidity at the time and place of launch.
Mercury switches were another early method of 'timing' upper stage
ignition. A mercury switch is a small glass bulb with an enclosed drop
of mercury. Two wires run out the top of the bulb. When the switch
is tilted or decelerated the mercury rolls forward to make contact with
the two wires and close the circuit. This results in a closed circuit when
the booster motor stops firing and the rocket begins to decelerate. The
ignition circuit would be set up so that power is provided to the igniter
when the mercury switch closes. EXTREME care must be exercised when
using
mercury switches. Titling the rocket closes the switch, so provisions for
disarming the circuit must be included. After the rocket is placed on the
pad and the circuit armed, any sudden movement of the rocket could set of
the second stage.
Bob Weisbe uploaded plans for a mercury switch-based staging system that he
used in a converted Estes Terrier-Sandhawk kit. The URL for these plans
is:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/PLANS/terrier_sandhawk.ps
The next generation of upper stage ignition systems were based on
electronic timers of various types, both analog and digital. The timer
was set for the appropriate time (first stage burn time + inter-stage
delay, if any). A contact switch, usually kept open by the launch rod,
would often be used to initiate the timer. As the rocket leaves the
launch rod the timer is started. After the preset time interval the timer
closes the circuit allowing power to the igniter. Again, great care must
be taken with these devices. If the contact switch is allowed to close
prior to the rocket lifting off the 2nd stage could ignite while the
rocket is still on the pad and there are people around.
Another form of early timing device was based on photo-electric sensors.
A sensor would be placed in a position such that light could get through
the booster motor tube after all of the fuel was spent. When the sensor
detects light the power circuit is closed.
Remote control has been used to initiate firing sequence in multi-stage
rockets. This method has the advantage that the 2nd stage isn't ignited
unless a human being takes positive action, while the rocket is in the air.
It also requires an R/C transmitter, receiver, etc.
Some newer devices are out based on acceleration detection. These are
sometimes combined with timers. Liftoff acceleration is detected. This
either starts a timer or enables a deceleration sensor. At the specified
time interval, or when deceleration is detected, the power circuit is
closed.
Power Sources ...
Two forms of electric power are commonly used, capacitors and batteries.
A capacitor is typically charged from an external source just before
liftoff. The timing device then closes the circuit at the proper time
and the capacitor discharges, firing the igniter. One disadvantage of
this method is that the capacitor charge slowly bleeds off, meaning that
the rocket may not sit on the pad a long time after prepping and still
reliably ignite the upper stage(s).
All forms of small batteries have been used, depending on the power
requirements. Common batteries for igniting a single, low power igniter
are 9V transistor and 12V alkaline lighter batteries.
Timed thermalite fuse ignited by exhaust from the booster requires no
power.
Igniters ...
Multi-stage rockets generally have a limited current source for igniting
upper stages, so very low power igniters are used. Two common igniters
are electric matches and flash bulb/thermalite fuse. Both of these
igniters are described elsewhere in this document.
Readers are encouraged to review the NCR technical reports and rocketry
magazine articles on composite multi-staging.
A document describing igniters, and how one can make ignitors using
thermalite and nichrome wire is available on the sunsite archive at:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/ARTICLES/igniter_talk.txt
Illustrations for this document are also available for downloading:
http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/archives/rec.models.rockets/ARTICLES/igniter_talk_fig
ures.ps
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12.9 What is 'flash in the pan' ignition and for what is it useful in
rocketry?
From: jjir...@cyberg8t.com (Jerry Irvine)
[Editor's note: This is paraphrased from Jerry's postings]
Flash in the pan ignition is used to ignite clusters of small black powder
rocket motors. It consists of a thin layer of black powder on a paper
plate
under the motor nozzles. The powder is ignited via a regular model rocket
igniter, such as an Estes Solar igniter. When the power ignites, the
burning particles and hot gasses from the 'flash' ignite the motors.
It is used to ignite clusters of 7-469 motors and reduces the number of
igniters needed to one.
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12.10 I would like to perfect a method for reliable ignition of clustered
multi-
stage rockets. Any suggestions or tips?
From: Levi...@nighthawk.medtechnet.com (Leviathan)
So would everyone else... but there's always that chance that something
may fail when staging and/or clustering... and probably double the
chance
when staging & clustering. Therefore, my best advice to anyone
attempting
(large?) projects requiring staging/clustering is to invest in some sort
of recovery system such as the Adept altimeters with deployment. In the
case of staging... if the upper motor fails to ignite the altimeter will
still deploy the upper stage chute(s) SAFELY with NO damage to the
rocket.
In a case were you're clustering and a motor (or 2, or 3....) fails to
ignite in the cluster, and the rocket WILL fail to reach a safe
altitude -
or more precisely now WILL have a delay time that is TOO LONG -
again the
altimeter will SAFELY deploy the chute(s). IMO it's a small price to
pay to
protect a much larger investment of the rocket itself. As a matter of
fact
in my current project - a 1/4 scale 3 stage Argo D4/Javelin - each stage
will carry it's own altimeter with the 3rd stage carrying the Adept OBC2
recording altimeter. Not only will this provide for dual deployment of
each stage's recovery system, it should provide protection against
failure
of the 2nd and/or 3rd stage ignition. I also plan on carrying a Pratt
system aboard to provide redundant back up.
From: John Dunbar <jdu...@csd.sgi.com>
I really recommend the Teflon sheathing method of thermalite.
Now you can try using a flash pan to get that first stage bohemian
going.
Its just a nice circular pan, with fine black powder in it. Just order a
can from your local gun shop, they can ship US postal to your front door
without a single eyelash batting on the face of a BATF agent. You stick
those engine down into the power with a thermalite wick protruding from
the engine, and WHOOSH...
The more parts you have to worry about, the greater the likelihood that
something is going go terribly wrong. Now if you don't care, and just
want to do it for fun, GO FOR IT, otherwise think of ONE BIG MOTOR
for the
first stage and one smaller, yet BIG MOTOR, for the second. Do not rely
on mercury switches for high power ... that's a NO NO. Instead, use
timers
in a way that causes the second stage to start its ignition while the
first is still under power. Now you can drag separate, and that's
fine to,
but make sure your bird is flying straight and true, or it will be
doodoo!
Technical reports on this subject are available from NARTS and California
Rocketry (see part02 of this FAQ):
California Rocketry report AIR-3
North Coast report NCTRA1 (from NARTS)
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12.11 How do I cluster rocket motors? When igniting a cluster of rocket
motors, should the igniters be wired in parallel or in series? Why?
The advent of composite model rocket motors in 'standard' black power
sizes (18 and 24mm) has led to an increase in the use of composite motors
in cluster rockets. Mixed black powder/composite clusters are also
becoming popular. In particular, clusters of 3 or 4 composite
motors, or a composite core motor with outboard black powder motors,
are being seen more. These offer special ignition challenges. The old
black powder techniques don't work when composite motors are
involved. The most common method for clustering Estes type black
powder motors is to use multiple Solar igniters and clip whips. Flash
bulb to sheathed thermalite is the most common composite ignition
method. Although flash bulb ignition has been used for years, there
have been safety concerns over its use. Here are some suggestions from
rmr posters:
From Pete...@aol.com (Peter Alway):
I cluster black powder motors with Solar igniters wired
in parallel and a car battery for power. I stuff igniters
with little balls of tissue paper wadding to insure they
stay in place. My general rule is only to cluster with
a technique I use regularly for single-engine models,
as reliability has more to do with experience and my
current state of skill than with the particular technique.
[Editor's note: Estes plastic plugs work well in place of tissue
wads. The igniter plugs can be reused several times, as well.]
From: gl...@lightning.nsc.com (Glenn Newell)
My technique for clustering composite motors is to use equal length
pieces of thermalite with 1/16" heat shrink tubing as a sleeve. I
leave about a 1/2" unsheathed in the motor and about one inch unsheathed
on the other end (I don't shrink the heat shrink, it just happened to be
around and the right size). I tape all the ends together around a single
solar igniter. No flashbulb problems here!
From: bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Bill Nelson)
I prefer to use a short section of Thermalite, with igniter wires,
inserted into each motor - the wires are taped to the motor for security.
There is no need for an igniter for the Thermalite. Simply remove the
cloth wrap, and all but one of the spiral metal wires. Wrap the end of
one wire to one end of the thermalite and the end of the other wire to
the other end. You can use anything from about 22 gauge wire (if it will
fit in the grain slot) to about 28 gauge. The free ends connect to the
controller ignition wires. When the relay closes, the Thermalite wire
wrap is essentially vaporized instantly. I have never seen the
Thermalite fail to ignite.
From: bur...@kodiak.ee.washington.edu (Frank J. Burke)
The main reason for using parallel igniters is that as one ignites, the
others are still in the circuit. As one igniter breaks in a series
circuit
the circuit is broken and the others will not get any more current.
It may
be that with a 12V system, and low impedance wire, that the current
provided is high enough that they flash so fast that it doesn't
matter....
I have never had a failure with parallel circuits. I ... prefer using a
parallel system, knowing the limitations, using a meter to verify
that the
igniters are "good" before using them, and using good connections when
wiring them up.
From: buz...@netcom.com (Buzz McDermott)
The biggest concern with wiring cluster igniters in series is that one
igniter might burn through and break the circuit before all of the
igniters have fired. Once the circuit is broken, no more igniters will
fire.
On the other hand, it was mentioned by several posters that series wiring
is extensively used in the explosives and pyrotechnics industries
because of the added reliability you get. With series wiring you can
verify the complete igniter circuit and you will know if *any* igniter
is improperly wired. Also, you would be able to ignite many more (fast
igniting) igniters with series wiring, especially if the resistance
in the
igniter is high.
From: kapl...@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)
For a 4 engine cluster I like to wire the ignitors in a "bridge":
X======B
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
A ======X X======A'
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
X======B'
Clips A and A' come from one clip whip. B and B' are from the other
whip.
I use a manual wire wrap tool for twisting the Solar ignitors together
AFTER installing the "earplug" (tm). Be sure your wraps are nice
and tight
so they all touch where they are supposed to. Having a clip on each
joint
certainly helps. For multiple wire clipping, I've found that the
clips with
teeth hold better than the standard micro-clips.
I've used this several times now on 4xD12 in a BT-80 rocket with
100% success.
Editors Note:
The bottom-line-consensus of the 'net' seems to favor parallel wiring for
most clusters of 7 or fewer motors, using a 12V (or more) launch system
capable of dumping plenty of amps to the igniters. This generally means
a relay based system with the primary ignition power source close to the
launch pad.
Readers are also directed to check out the NCR Technical Reports #1 &
#2, on black powder and composite clustering, respectively. Although
they are a few years old, they still contain valuable information.
------------------------------------------------------------------
12.12 I am new to rocketry. I was wondering whether anyone has tried
using waterproof wicks instead of igniters to ignite a rocket engine.
The main application for Green fuse in rocketry is as an auxuliary delay
when a timer is not available and Thermalite is too fast burning. Green
Visco fuse burns about 30 seconds per foot.
From: Robert...@hccompare.com
"Green" fuse isn't reliable, and unless electrically ignited via remote
control (difficult) isn't legal. To use fuse and a match is a
violation of
the safety code, and most state local regulations.
buz...@netcom.com (Buzz McDermott) adds to the above:
The most common way to use 'green' fuse or Jetex wick to ignite a model
rocket motor is to cut a fair length, insert it in the motor, light it
with a match, and RUN!. As Bob stated, it's against EVERYONE's safety
code to do that. The answer to 'why' is simple. Once you light the fuse
you've lost all control over launching the rocket. If a breeze kicks it
over just before ignition you end up launching a land shark. You can't
stop the launch if you notice a plane come out of nowhere and fly right
overhead. You can't stop the launch if a little kid comes out of nowhere
and runs up to your rocket. ...on top of all this, the stuff just
doesn't really work all that well for rocket ignition...
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12.13 The alligator clips on my launch system have worn out. What should
I use to
What should I use to replace them?
From: msjo...@KS.Symbios.COM (Mark Johnson)
RatShack is fine for clips...and they have a wide collection of
sizes. My
suggestion, having been-there-done-that and replaced clips on several
controllers almost annually, is NOT to buy the little 3/4 inch copper
clips.
They're too delicate for my tastes. Instead, I get the chrome plated
ones
about 1 1/4 inches long, preferably with the little plastic grips on the
"handles." These are bigger and thus easier to manipulate while wearing
gloves, or when your hands are cold and unsteady.
If you use your launch system frequently, I recommend at least annual
replacement of the clips. This is more true of a club system than an
individual one, but remember that you take your choice of corrosives
with
model rocket motors -- black powder leaves just a bit of sulfuric
acid in
its wake, and composites drop hydrochloric. The clip bodies of copper
micro-clips will hold up OK, but the spring that holds the jaws shut is
steel and will eventually corrode away, as you've seen.
------------------------------------------------------------------
12.14 Other Ignition Tips:
From: dw...@jarthur.claremont.edu (Doug Wade)
[concerning adapting launch controllers to 12V car batteries ...]
Speaking of which, I took my Aerotech launch setup, lopped off the
igniter attachment, and the place where it attaches to the battery, put
amp plugs on either end, put a plug on the battery, and made some
alligator clips in various configurations for launching Estes stuff.
This means that I can switch batteries and igniter style in basically
no time at all. It's not a lot of work, and it makes life easier. If
you have the urge to do this kind of thing, make sure that you get
plugs that can handle it. A 12V motorcycle battery (Mine was about
$40 but it's pretty nice) can put out something like 15A for a short
period of time...
From: c...@rocket.sw.stratus.com C.D. Tavares
[concerning an ongoing discussion about blast deflectors]
I've had first hand experiences with several types of metals. I've never
found a piece of aluminum that was worth dog-doo as a deflector. In the
higher engine ranges, even steel will give you problems, especially with
maintenance. Stainless isn't much help, since it still cruds up.
What we use are discarded grinding wheels. Fireproof, non-conductive,
free, plentiful, large, and pre-drilled. The only negative on these is
that when an engine catos they tend to lose large chunks or crack in
half. This happens to us maybe three times per year, but as I say,
they're free and they're plentiful.
From: kapl...@hccompare.com (Bob Kaplow)
Use clay flower pots for blast deflectors. Get Stainless steel for
launch rods from welding or metal supply houses.
---------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 1996 Wolfram von Kiparski, editor.
Refer to Part 00 for the full copyright notice.
Wolfram v.Kiparski
Rec-models-rockets-archive-name: rockets-faq/part13
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1998 September 26
URL: http://dtm-corp.com/~sven/rockets/rmrfaq.toc.html
INTERNATIONAL ROCKETRY
The majority of the r.m.r FAQ is oriented towards consumer rocketry in
the United States. This part of the FAQ is for rocketry in other parts
of the world. These sections will be expanded as information is received.
---------------------------------------
13.1 Rocketry in Australia
This portion of the FAQ was prepared and submitted by Rob Masters,
r...@perv.metapro.com.au. Rob asked that the usual disclaimers to
use this information at your own risk, etc., be passed on to the readers
of this FAQ. Corrections should be sent to Rob, who will see that they
are incorporated and passed on the the FAQ editor.
---------------------------------------
13.1.1 What rules apply to model rocketry in Australia?
The C.A.A. RULE (Paraphrased from regulation 295):
No model may be flown over 300' without a waiver from the
CAA. Only matters relating to airsafety shall be considered in
granting a waiver. Further, you may not launch at all within
5km of an aerodrome (airfield or airport). Also, some states
have explicit age restrictions (ie Queensland - Minimum age 18yo),
and fire restrictions (Qld again, must have local fire marshall
approval). You should also respect fire bans as a matter of
safety, courtesy and good public relations.
Other than this, you should follow the standard _model_
rocketry rules of the NAR, and note that only engines up to
"D" class are available.
---------------------------------------
13.1.2. What are good sources of model rocketry kits/wg's/parts, etc?
To date, all model rocketry components are imported through
DAWN TRADING, who the distribute to the local retailers. Note
that because of their policies, it is not possible to buy
individual components for kits in Australia. The Designer's
Special component set is, however, available. Currently only
Estes and MRC kits are imported. Local retailers are most R/C
retailers and some gaming shops.
---------------------------------------
13.1.3 Are there any regular rocket contests, launches, clubs, etc?
There is at least one national-level body now in Australia. It
covers both model rocket and HPR levels. The body is :
Australian Rocketry Association Inc.
P.O. Box 125,
Oaklands Park SA 5046
Email: das...@cs.adelaide.edu.au (David Sakko, Vice President)
Membership is $25 per annum, and an additional $10 per annum per
additional family member. Minimum age is 8yo and membership includes
insurance, a quarterly newsletter, ID card, and guide book.
Sport Rocketry is available through them at $40 (surface) or $92 (air)
per annum.
The association is also working with the CAA, state governments and
the AFPA to standardise regulations and to obtain better flying
conditions.
Also, there is at least one model aircraft club that welcomes, but does not
cover, model rocket launches. For the scale modellers, there is also an
active Astronautical Society, who can provide a lot of information,
and are well worth joining if you are interested in the world of the
"big stuff" as well.
---------------------------------------
13.1.4 Info on amateur groups/activities (such as AusRoc) in the Australia.
As has been covered in news stories, there is a University-based team
who are working on an amateur rocket (AusRoc), who have so far had
two spectacular failures, and one partial success.
For more on the AusRoc project, contact The Australian Space Research
Institute. If you would like to join the Australian Space Research
Institute write to:
ASRI Ltd.
PO Box 184
Ryde NSW 2112
Australia
The annual fee is AUS$25 for students and pensioners and AUS$100 for
normal membership. If you live overseas write for membership costs.
All member funds are used to support ASRI programs. Membership allows
you to:
* Vote at meetings
* Stand for election to the ASRI board of directors
* Receive of all ASRI newsletters and journals
* Provide payloads for Sighter (83 mm) and Zuni (127 mm) rockets
---------------------------------------
13.2 Rocketry in Canada
3. Regs: HPR is class H-O. G's now available. HPR launch sites require
certification by Transport Canada. HPR certification done by CAR.
This section is still under construction and currently has no Canadian editor
responsible for its contents. Most of the information contained in this
section was obtained from the CAR World Wide Web page and several issues
of 'High Power Rocketry' magazine.
---------------------------------------
13.2.1 Are there any national organizations to which I can join in Canada?
What services do they offer?
Canadian Association of Rocketry (CAR) Canadian equivalent to N.A.R.
c/o Garth Illerbrun - High power certification
5927-18th Ave. N.E. (required for H power and up)
Calgary, Alberta - Dues: $30/year CDN
AB T1Y 1N9 - $1M liability insurance for
Canada rocketry activities included
(403) 285-1898
email: - Yearly national sport launch
qui...@cadvision.com (Sullivan Lake)
WWW: http://www.promotek.com/car/index.htm
Calgary Rocketry Association (CRA)
fan...@cadvision.com (Brian Fanson, current CRA president)
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dbuhler/cra.htm
---------------------------------------
13.2.2 What kinds of rockets (model and/or high power) are legal to fly in
Canada?
At the present time, A-G powered model rockets, with launch weights up to
one pound, are legal to fly in most parts of Canada. H powered rockets and
up, as well as rockets weighing more than one pound at liftoff, are considered
'High Power.' HPR launch sites require certification by Transport Canada.
HPR certification is done by CAR.
---------------------------------------
13.2.3 Are there any High Power launches in Canada?
There are several annual high power launches in Canada.
The 'Sullivan Lake High Power' launch.
For more information on this launch contact Garth Illerbrun
<qui...@cadvision.com> at the CAR address.
---------------------------------------
13.2.4 What kinds of rocket motors are available for purchase in Canada?
All of the Estes A-D black powder rocket motor line and the Aerotech
single-use, composite motors from D through G are now available for
purchase.
---------------------------------------
13.2.5 Are there any Canadian mail order houses where I can purchase model
rocket kits, motors and supplies?
East Coast Model Center
http://www.peinet.pe.ca/ECMC
Ralph's Hobby Shop Advertises Estes, MRC and LOC, as well
668 Kingston Road as modeling and ignition supplies
Toronto, ONT
Canada M4E 1R4
(416) 690-4204
email: ralphs...@sympatico.ca
La Maison de L'Astronomie Offers rocketry supplies from Estes,
7974 St-Hubert Aerotech, Flight Systems, LOC, Rocketman,
Montreal, QUE Public Missiles, Adept, and more
Canada H2R 2P3 Kits, motors, videos, books - everything
(514) 279-0063 contact for catalogs and price lists
Suborbital Technologies Estes, Aerotech, NCR, Launch Pad
c/o Brian Fanson rocketry kits, motors, supplies
179 Midlawn Close S.E.
Calgary, Alberta
Canada T2X 1A7
(403) 256-7293
email: fan...@cadvision.com
---------------------------------------
13.3 Rocketry in the United Kingdom
http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/staar
http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/seds
---------------------------------------
13.3.1 Is model rocketry legal in the UK?
As far as we can tell, there are no laws in the UK which *directly* govern
model rocketry in the UK. For the time being, with model rocketry only in
its infancy (10yrs or so) there is little need for unnecessary regulation
so long as model rocketeers follow 'commonsense guidelines'.
---------------------------------------
13.3.2 What size model rockets can be flown?
Again, as far as we can tell, there are no rules which define maximum sizes,
weights, total impulses etc. Most model rockets that can be bought from model
shops will take a maximum of 3 D-Class Estes motors, either clustered or
multistaged. There appears not to be an equivalent of an FAA Waiver for
launching rockets greater than a defined maximum. However, all of the HPR
enthusiasts I know do contact the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) if they
wish to launch over approximately 3000ft.
---------------------------------------
13.3.3 What model rockets are available?
The complete Estes range of kits and motors are available (not Estes E15).
The Estes range is imported/distributed by Ripmax Ltd (See addresses below).
Recently, a range of 'Launch Pad' kits has been made available by mail order
from a company called Advanced Rocket Components (See addresses below).
These will fly on Estes D and Aerotech E15/E30 engines. I do not know of any
other source of rocketry components in the UK.
---------------------------------------
13.3.4 What types of engines are available?
Estes engines are the only commercially available brand of model rocketry
motors available in the UK. All sizes from 1/2A to D are available.
The price can vary quite wildly from one store to another. Typical
prices in London are about GBP4.00 for 3 C/D Class. (Prices can vary from
3 to 5 GBP!)
Larger motors such as Aerotech etc.. are not available.
---------------------------------------
13.3.5 Where can I buy model rockets?
In general, it is the smaller independent model shops that sell model
rocketry supplies, however, larger chains such as Beatties and Hamleys
have been known to stock them. A number of 'kite and juggling' shops also
sell Estes products too - quite interesting! (See address list below).
---------------------------------------
13.3.6 Are there any events/competitions?
There is only one event that I have come across, which is the "International
Rocket Weekend", which is held near Largs, Scotland. This is run by
STAAR Research (See addresses below) and is held on the August Bank Holiday
every year (Note that Scotland does not have a Public Holiday, only England
and Wales!).
There are no formal rules and regulations like the NAR, Tripoli etc.
The basic rules and events are laid out beforehand, but often change to suit
the interests of those attending. The event is aimed at promoting model
rocketry in the UK, and often has a number of beginners. There are also
many 'open/experimental' sessions for the more experienced.
The most important thing is that everyone enjoys themselves.
---------------------------------------
13.3.7 Are there any clubs?
The following is the list of clubs/organisations that I have come across.
[I will try to establish full contact details ASAP]
- STAAR Research, Ayrshire.
http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/staar/
- Southern England Rocket Flyers (SERFS), Southampton.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/steve_moores
- British Space Modelling Association
Mr. Stuart Lodge
25 Huntingdon Drive
Castle Donington
Derby DE74 2SR
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 44 1332 850329
- Thrust (The Rockect Club of Central England)
email: thr...@bidesign.demon.co.uk
- Middlesex Advanced Rocketry Society (MARS), Middlesex. (HPR Group)
- London Area Rocket Flyers Society - contact John Lister <jo...@listers.demon.co.uk>
- Beatties of London Model Rocketry Club.
- Essex, Hornchurch - contact Peter Barrett (10154...@compuserve.com)
---------------------------------------
13.3.8 What are addresses of some of the shops that carry model rocketry?
RIPMAX Ltd. Tel. 0181-804 8272
Ripmax Corner Fax. 0181-804 1217
Green St.
Enfield
EN3 7SJ
Chart Hobbies Tel. 01903 773170 (On Estes Catalogue back page)
Chart House Fax. 01903 782152
Station Road
East Preston
West Sussex
Littlehampton
BN16 3AG
Hamleys Tel.
Regent St. Fax.
London
The Kite Store
Neal St.
Covent Garden
London
Advanced Rocket Components Tel. 0151-928 4874
7 Sandy Road
Seaforth
Liverpool
Merseyside
L21 3TN
ACMR is a new rocketry dealer in the UK:
http://www.active-media.co.uk/~andy/acmr.htm
---------------------------------------
13.3.9 What are some of the rocket clubs in the U.K., and do they have any
problems getting permission to fly their rockets?
From: rosb...@cadence.com (Richard Osborne)
Well groups like AspireSpace (http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/aspire/) and
MARS (Middlesex Amateur Rocketry Society) in Southern England fly
vehicles up to K power without problem. They do always inform the
CAA first, to ensure a NOTAM is issued, but apart from that, there
never seems to be any problem, even with the police. Maybe certain
areas of the UK are more touchy about model rocketry than others.
I don`t think STAAR Research (http://www.gbnet.net/orgs/staar/) has
any problems with their numerous HPR launches in Scotland either.
For people living in southern England, contact SERF:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/steve_moores
---------------------------------------
13.4 Rocketry in South Africa
This section is still under construction. The following hobby shop address
has been submitted to the FAQ.
Rocketeers Model rocketry and high power
Box 7032 kits, engines, and supplies
Roodeport
SOUTH AFRICA 1715
+27 (0)11 475 0880
There is a web page for the South Africa Amateur Rocket Club (SAMROC)
organization. This web page may be viewed at:
This looks to be a pretty complete web page, explaining the state of
hobby rocketry in S.A., listing addresses of rocketry suppliers in the
country, and giving amail addresses for further information. There are
also pictures from SAMROC launches and a launch schedule.
---------------------------------------
13.5 Rocketry in New Zealand
This portion of the FAQ has been archived until the New Zealanders can
agree on what should be stated here. The editor does not know anything
about rocketry in New Zealand, and is in no position to arbitrate
the dispute.
Questions regarding this section can be directed to both:
Lindsay Gordon (lindsay...@stonebow.otago.ac.nz)
Gerry Munden <gam...@iprolink.co.nz>
---------------------------------------
13.6 Rocketry in Germany
Written by Stefan Wimmer (s...@cellware.de)
Germany is well-known for its many legal regulations. Consumer
rocketry is no exception to that rule: rockets, rocket motors and launches
are covered by several laws (Luftfahrtgesetz, Luftverkehrordnung,
Sprengstoffgesetz...). The most stringent legal regulation are concerning
the motors which are covered by the German explosives law (Sprengstoffgesetz,
SprenG). To understand why they are so restrictive you have to know, that
they passed legislation in the 70s during the active phase of the
Baader-Meinhof terrorists (btw. one of their declared aims was to cause
the creation of so many legal restrictions, that personal freedom would
be strangled to a breaking point causing a revolution against the system.
Well, they almost reached the first part....).
Rockets and rocket motors are considered to be a potential base for
destructive devices and therefore limited to useless (unfortunately not
only for this purpose) power levels. As if terrorists bother with model
rocketry stuff - ever heard of an I-powered hand grenade, or such??
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.1 German Explosives Law
The German explosives legislation is divided into several sections:
The 'Sprengstoffgesetz' (SprengG),
the '1. and 2. Verordnung zum SprengG' (1.und 2. SprengV), and
the according 'Verwaltungsrichtlinien'.
For rocketeers the most important parts are paragraph 27 of the SprengG
and the 1. and 2. SprengV which regulate handling and storage of pyrotechnic
devices. The 'Verwaltungsrichtlinien' are also very interesting because
they define, how the office people will (have to) react to inquiries.
The SprengG divides Pyrotechnic devices into 6 different classes:
- Class I (very small fireworks)
These (eg. sparklers) may be bought and used throughout the year, even
by children. No rockets are allowed in class I.
- Class II (small fireworks)
These are the common end-of-the-year fireworks. May be bought by
adults during the last three days of the year, and may only be used on
31st of December and 1st of January.
- Class III (medium fireworks) and
- Class IV (big fireworks)
may be bought and used only by licensed people (license according to
paragraph 7, 20 or 27 of the German explosives law).
Storage has to be done in approved storage places.
- Class T1 (small technical pyrotechnic devices)
These may be bought by adults and used by people of at least 14 years
(under adult supervision from 14-17) throughout the year. Limitation for
rocket motors in this class is 20g of propellant. That's why German
rocketeers are usually stuck with A/B/C motors.
- Class T2 (big technical pyrotechnic devices)
Everything that is not considered display fireworks and anything too
big to be class T1. For rocket motors this means anything with more
than 20g of propellant AND also clustering and staging of T1 motors.
(!!!). So if you plan to launch eg. an Estes Commanche,
get your T2-license first!
All pyrotechnic devices except class IV have to be approved by the
'Bundesanstalt fuer Materielforschung und -Pruefung' (BAM). In order to get
approved, the device and the contained pyrotechnic compounds have to pass a
number of tests to assure stability in storage, safety in handling and use,
and quality of the products. The manufacturer will have to demonstrate
acceptible quality control practices to be sure that subsequent production
runs of the product will equal the tested ones. From time to time,
additional samples have to be sent to the BAM for quality assurance
verification.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.2 German Aviation Regulations
The most relevant parts of the German aviation legislation are paragraph
16 of the 'Luftverkehrsordnung' (LuftVO) (which defines when to ask for a
waiver and what information has to be provided in order to get a waiver) and
Paragraph 37 of the 'Luftverkehrsgesetz' (LuftVG) (which demands that
model aircraft up to 20kg has to have an insurance good for 2.5 mio DM per
accident. If you plan bigger rockets: The next category is aircraft up
to 1200kg and requires a 5 mio DM insurance.)
If you plan to get a distinct area registered as your 'Raketenflugplatz' get
a copy of the 'Richtlinien fuer die Genehmigung von Raketenplaetzen.'
Read it, and decide if you can meet the requirements.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.3 What Rockets and Motors can I buy and use in Germany?
Some hobby shops with a good flyers' supply sell Estes and Quest model
kits. There are even some genuine German manufactures whose parts and kits
occasionally show up at stores. Most suppliers and manufacturers sell their
products by mailorder too.
T1 motors:
Currently there is a range of Estes A,B and C motors available at the same
stores. The greatest variety is from Estes. They cost about DM 8-12 for
a 3-pack. A8-3, B4-4 and C6-3 motors are also available from a German
manufacturer (Moog-Nico) and sell for DM 22-35 in packets of 10.
In some places you can also get the brave old HELD1000, which is basically
a C2-0 originally intended for boost gliders. All these motors are
BAM-T1 and can be bought, stored, and used without problems.
T2 motors:
There are several motors listed in the addendum of the German explosives law,
but most of them are out of production (eg. some FSI motors). There are some
remaining HELD5000, but the last batch was manufactured in '88 and
depending on transport and storage conditions, they have degraded by now.
One member of the RAMOG (address in the Club/Address section), Mr. Maurer,
sells a manufacturer-reloadable motor, the BC360. It is a double-base
propellant motor with 360Ns. The (filled) casing is about DM 350 (may have
changed by now) and a refill is around DM 70 plus S&H.
There is also a BC1800, but it is not yet BAM certified.
There are some more motors to come, but they are still in the process of
design and/or BAM certification. Please check with the DERA or the RAMOG for
more current information!
Last fall we (the DERA people) discovered, that the Estes D12-5 has its
BAM-T2 classification, but only when it comes through a certain importer and
with a prescribed German text on the motors and packages (this is part of the
BAM certification and published in the explosives law word by word).
We then found out that this importer is out of busines :-((
After some negotiations we found a pyrotechnician who is willing (kind of
;-)) to take over the importing part. Then we contacted Estes for the
customized (German) motors. Status: Our batch of motors will be
manufactured sometimes in August'96. It will then take some time to cure/pack
and get them to Germany and through the customs. By then we should be able to
calculate the price. Please contact the DERA for availability.
If you wish to get a motor approved by the BAM be warned: It is possible
but costly both in time and expenses.
First you must have a complete list of chemical ingredients of the
pyrotechnic compounds. Try to get that from a foreign manufacturer!
(The author (and others) once tried that with Aerotech - without success.)
Then the BAM needs several sample devices in order to test the stability
sensitivity of the pyrotechnic materials, and the consistency of the
device's performance. Third they need proof (not an affirmation) of the
quality control system of the manufaturer, and that QC is done on a
regular basis by trained staff. If you can't get this, some of the BAM people
want to inspect the manufacturers site(s). They must be sure (by law) that
all subsequently manufactured devices are of the same quality as the ones
submitted for the tests. And remember: YOU will be charged for all expenses
they have. If you got through all that, be aware that the BAM will
occasionally request more samples for further testing to determine if the
motors continue to meet approval criteria.
The whole procedure is no big deal for a manufacturer who sees a market,
but it's hard to do for private people.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.4 Clustering and Staging
As mentioned above: Clustering and staging of motors requires a T2 license
in Germany. Even if you cluster/stage 'only' T1 motors!
And don't forget to get the required waiver according to paragraph 16 LuftVO.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.5 Can I make my own rocket motors?
Making your own rocket motors is not recommended.
It's completely illegal without the appropriate permissions and licenses.
First of all, you need a pyrotechnics manufacturing license
("Hersteller-Schein"). After you got this, you need a site and more
licenses from several offices (Arbeitssicherheit, Bauamt, Umweltschutz etc.)
before you can start to plan the several separate buildings needed for
storage of the components, different procedures (grinding, mixing, filling,
pressing etc.), and storage of the finished products.
And don't forget about the (in this case very costly) insurance.
All in all, manufacturing your own rocket motors is nothing you would want
to burden yourself with. Even if you got your manufacturer's license,
you are still not allowed to USE the products you made unless they have
got their BAM approval for class I, II or T1/T2!!
Bureaucracy rules!
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.6 Can I use rocket motors made for display fireworks?
Rocket motors used in big display fireworks usually belong to class IV
fireworks (as everything that is not BAM-approved, such as foreign motors)
and are limited to people with the appropriate license. Even worse:
if you stuff such a motor in a model rocket, it is automatically
considered display fireworks and requires a (costly) announcement to the
appropriate officials like any other display firework.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.7 Importing Rockets, Parts and Motors
There is no real problem with importing rocketry stuff from foreign countries
as long as no pyrotechnics are involved. What you have to keep in mind is that
every shipment from abroad will have to pass the customs clearance where
you'll be charged the 15% 'Einfuhrumsatzsteuer' and the customs (5-8%) which
vary on the type of goods you're importing. The author found out that there
is a 'Zoll-Warengruppen-Nummer' 8802 6000 000 for 'suborbitale Raumfahrzeuge
und deren Teile' (suborbital spacecraft) which model and high power rockets
undoubtedly are ;-)) (The author likes the looks at the office he always
gets when the people there look up the number in their books.)
This way you get off with only 5.1% customs (which btw. will be computed on
the whole sum of the bill, including shipping and handling costs!). To ease
the procedure, have the sender glue a copy of the bill to the outside of the
box in an envelope marked with 'Rechnung'. Have him write the
'Warengruppen-Nummer' on the bill too.
Even after adding up S&H and the 20.1% to pay, there are some occasions when
you can get Estes and other stuff cheaper from the USA than you'd ever get it
in Germany. Not to speak of all the HPR stuff which is very unlikely to show
up in a German store at all.
*** BEWARE OF IMPORTING FOREIGN MOTORS!!! ***
Every box from abroad will be opened as it passes the German border. You
might be asked to show your license at the customs office when you try to pick
up your goods. If you don't have a license, then you're in trouble!
Non-BAM-approved pyrotechnics are ALWAYS considered class IV fireworks.
The goods will be destroyed and you will be charged with both the cost
of destruction and a fine. Offenses against the explosives law are considered
criminal offenses, and there is even a chance to go to jail for it!
Foreign dealers will not know about that and send you whatever you order.
BUT IT'S YOU WHO HAS TO BEAR THE CONSEQUENCES!
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.8 Where can I launch my Rockets?
There are several rules which have to be obeyed:
First, you must be at least 8 km away (as the crow flies, Luftlinie)
from any airport.
Second, you must have permission from the landowner to launch.
(not where your rocket is going to land but it helps to take that into
account too).
It helps to launch from public ground like publically accessible
field paths, because there you only have to ask the next available
representative of the public, who is usually yourself. ;-)
The 1m zone on either side of small streets connecting small villages
is usually considered a public area. If there is no traffic and
enough room to park your car, then you can set up your launch equipment
there too. But take care not to irritate occasional bypassers!
Third, you have to stay underneath the surveyed airspace with your T1 powered
rockets. Usually it begins at 300m AGL but that varies from place to place.
In Germany there are many "Tieffluggebiete" (low flying areas) used by the
military who don't like "missiles" crossing their flight path! Check with
your local "Flugsicherungsdienst" (the German FAA) if in doubt. A good
idea is to buy a 'Luftkarten' of the area in question and check
for restrictions.
If you chose to fly T2 powered birds, you ALWAYS need a "Luftraumfreigabe"
(waiver), no matter how high your rocket is going to fly!
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.9 Where can I launch rockets with bigger motors?
If you really want to legally get into high power or experimental rocketry,
you first will have to get a license to buy, store, and transport
class IV fireworks. There is no way around this since everything without
any kind of BAM approval (like foreign motors) will be considered to be
class IV fireworks.
Once you are licensed, you must contact a military base, where they may
have some kind of shooting range, and ask the authorities for permission
to occasionally using their range for 'test flights.' Usually, this will
be impossible because of 'duds' (Blindgaenger) laying around there.
If you do get the permission, then you can apply for a waiver
(Luftraumfreigabe) for the dates when you are allowed to fly. Most
shooting ranges will already have a restricted airspace (gesperrter Luftraum)
which only has to be activated for the time of your launches.
If you have made it this far, the you are one of the luckiest rocketeers
in Germany, because the 'normal' explosives law isn't valid on military
properties. But you still need to take precautions that your rocket will
not leave the range. If it does, then there could be trouble again.
And don't forget: posession and transport of non-BAM-approved motors is
restricted to licensed people!
If you are living near Berlin (or are willing to travel for your launches),
you can contact the DERA, since we are already in the process of getting
a launch range on a military base. Negotiations look good so far (09/96)
although there will be a fee.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.10 What Insurance do I need?
For T1 powered rockets, you shouldn't need a special liability insurance.
But some insurances explicitely exclude rocketry in the fine print of their
contracts. To be sure check this before your first launch! Ask for inclusion
or change the company if necessary!
T2 powered rockets are considered 'normal aircrafts' and the appropriate
regulations of the 'Luftrecht' rule: Aircraft up to ..kg weight
(ready-to-launch) must have a liability assurance good for DM 2,500,000
per accident. All aircrafts are insured via the "Deutscher Luftpool."
Ask the insurance company about this kind of insurance.
Probably the best alternative is to join a club where the insurance is
included in the dues.
-----------------------------------------------------
13.6.11 Addresses of Rocketry-related Clubs
DERA e.V. RAMOG (Raketen Modellsport Gruppe)
(Deutsche Experimental-Raketen Arbeitsgruppe) c/o Herbert Gruendler
c/o Dr. Hans-Peter Boehme Edenbergen
Saarstr. 19 Talblick 7
12161 Berlin 86368 Gersthofen
030 / 859 997-58 08230 / 1451
or:
DERA e.V.
c/o Stefan Wimmer
Wiesener Str. 23
12101 Berlin
Tel/Fax: 030 / 789 12 97
Dara Raketen Modell Sport Gruppe Deutscher Aero-Club e.V.
V. Schoenfelder Postfach 1361
Koenigswinterer St. 522-524 63131 Heusenstamm
53227 Bonn-Oberkassel
0228 / 45 51 02
Modellflug Club 1990 Raketen-Hobby-Gruppe
Thierfeld-Hartenstein e.V. Vaihingen-Enz
Sparte Raketenflug Karl-Heinz Gulich
Siegfried Goerner Steinhaldenweg 5
Jablonecer Str. 8 71663 Vaihingen-Enz
08062 Zwickau 07042 / 92125
037578 / 6021
Raketen-Modellsportclub Juri Gagarin RMV 82 e.V.
Berlin e.V. Duerenhofstr. 35
Gottfried Tittmann 90478 Nuernberg
Platz der Vereinten Nationen 8 0911 / 46 30 37
10249 Berlin
030 / 426 04 34
Raketen Sport Club Dietfurt Raketen-Sport-Club Muenchen
Christian Freihart Bernhard Irler
Im Kellergarten 1 Sankt-Anna-Str. 19
92345 Dietfurt 8.... Muenchen
08464 / 1428 089 / 22 66 01
Wasa R.V. Raketen Sport Freunde
Peter Wolf Manfred Fronhoefer
Peter-Bernhard-Str. 14 Kelheimer Str. 3a
83329 St. Leonhard 92339 Beilngries
08681 / 895 08461 / 1336
Check out Oliver Missbach's website:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oliver/rockets.htm
---------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 1996, 1997 Wolfram von Kiparski, editor.
Darren J Longhorn
wrote:
>13.3 Rocketry in the United Kingdom
>
This is several years out of date.
Paging Andy Moore...
--
Darren J Longhorn http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/8238
NSRG #005 http://www.northstarrocketry.org.uk/
UKRA #1094 L2 RSO http://www.ukra.org.uk/
"If this is the 21st century, then where's my personal jetpack?"
The Silent Observer
> On 07 May 2002 12:02:29 GMT, wo...@netheaven.com (Wolfram v.Kiparski)
> wrote:
>
>
>>13.3 Rocketry in the United Kingdom
>>
>>
> This is several years out of date.
>
> Paging Andy Moore...
>
>
>
But who shook it loose? We haven't seen it posted to the group in
something like a year...
--
Love wealth above life itself, and starve in splendor.
-- Elvish proverb
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
Telescope Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm
Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
Darren J Longhorn
<sil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Darren J Longhorn wrote:
>
>> On 07 May 2002 12:02:29 GMT, wo...@netheaven.com (Wolfram v.Kiparski)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>13.3 Rocketry in the United Kingdom
>>>
>>>
>> This is several years out of date.
>>
>> Paging Andy Moore...
>
>But who shook it loose? We haven't seen it posted to the group in
>something like a year...
I dunno. When I saw it I assumed that it was a "new improved" version.
Andy mentioned to the u.t.r collective a while back that he'd been in
contact with the faq holders. Subsequently, w spent some time
rewriting the UK entry.
Wolf
<sil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>But who shook it loose? We haven't seen it posted to the group in
>something like a year...
I did. Sorry. Was messing with the old FAQ. MIT squirted out a
copy. Won't happen again without significant changes.
Wolf
Hilty Information Systems
wrote:
>On Wed, 08 May 2002 04:06:44 GMT, The Silent Observer
><sil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>But who shook it loose? We haven't seen it posted to the group in
>>something like a year...
>
>I did. Sorry. Was messing with the old FAQ. MIT squirted out a
>copy.
Now that sounds downright disgusting!
Are we witnessing the birth of a new MIT/Hahvahd joke?
<g>
tah
Tod A. Hilty NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems
- replace ihrUnterhose with adelphia for reply
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606
Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/
"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
- BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future
"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation! Deal with it!"
- blankreg
Oliver Missbach
<darrenl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 07 May 2002 12:02:29 GMT, wo...@netheaven.com (Wolfram v.Kiparski)
>wrote:
>
>>13.3 Rocketry in the United Kingdom
>>
>This is several years out of date.
Darren, same goes for the German version:
>> 13.6 Rocketry in Germany
...
>> Check out Oliver Missbach's website:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oliver/rockets.htm
Funny, that was my site in 1996 ;-)
I know Wolf updated the FAQ a while ago?
Oliver
** European Model Rocketry site:
http://www.europerocketry.com **
** To answer, pls. remove "nospam" **
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oliver Missbach, NAR 35813
e-mail: miss...@nospam.modellraketen.de
http://www.missbach.com
http://www.modellraketen.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wolf
Missbach) wrote:
>>> Check out Oliver Missbach's website:
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oliver/rockets.htm
>
>Funny, that was my site in 1996 ;-)
>
>I know Wolf updated the FAQ a while ago?
Yes. On Sept. 26, 1998. Sorry about the broadcast.
What ever happened to the guy who is supposed to
be doing something with the FAQ? Did he just disappear
or something? It was two years ago! It doesn't take that
long to take over a FAQ and get going! I do not believe
that he ever posted one byte of the FAQ to r.m.r.! Slacker!
Maybe I'll update the FAQ, and pick up where I left off.
Wolf
Oliver Missbach
wrote:
>Maybe I'll update the FAQ, and pick up where I left off.
Thanks Wolf! If you need help with the German FAQ, pls. let me know!