TIME DILATION (OR DILATATION)
sam rooney
(GR) altho it is often taught as a an effect of Special Relativity
(SR).
If a space ship moves away from the earth with constant velocity for a
time t then an earth observer will measure the time of journey as t as
will an observer on the spaceship.
It is only if they look at each others clocks will they think that
each others clocks are going slow by a factor beta where beta =
1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
This time dilation is the 'relativistic' effect of observing motion in
another reference frame moving wrt your own but it does not affect the
proper time of travel.
when the spaceship arrives at its destination a distance vt away the
same time t will have elapsed on both clocks.
This is often badly treated and many text books say the clock on the
space ship will have run more slowly than the clock on earth.
The 'real' time dilation effect is due to GR and is caused by
accelerations and resulting gravitational fields.
In the example above if the spaceship was accelerating for the journey
then the clock on the space ship would indeed run-slow absolutely as a
consequence of its acceleration.
SR should be used for talking about 'apparent' dilations and
contractions only and GR for real time dilations.
IS THIS CORRECT .
Pyriform
> SR should be used for talking about 'apparent' dilations and
> contractions only and GR for real time dilations.
>
>
> IS THIS CORRECT .
No. Both effects are real and measurable.
See, for example, the following article on relativity in the Global
Positioning System:
http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashb
y/index.html
--
Pyriform
![[#] jpturcaud's profile photo](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/default-user=s40-c)
[#] jpturcaud
Since atomic clocks working is based on Atomic Decay Rate and those are
variable values depending on the local Cosmic Density Atmosphere* !
This in fact the reason for the discrepencies noted !
Of course all that make sense in a Universal Pressure System, which is a all
know, the corner stone of the True Geology !
Regards
PS Uncle Adolph and Mikey, yours short sighted comments can be anticipated
and since that matter at hand is so much above your present level of
awareness, please don't lend shoulders to the ridicule in which you are
indeed sinking by posting some clueless comments !!! Thank you !
* A True Geology concept as all know.
-
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Hydro & Mining Prospector
Pioneer of Australian Mining
Discoverer of Telfer; Kintyre & Nifty Mines in The Great Sandy Desert.
Discoverer of the South Atlantic Submarine Gold Placers
_ 40 Millions Tons estimate _
Founder of The TRUE GEOLOGY
* The Greatest Australian Mining Covered Up Swindle Of The 20th Century
http://membres.lycos.fr/jpturcaud/
* The True Geology ( previously Refutation of the Horrid Geological Myths )
http://membres.lycos.fr/xxx/ ( Not available due to plagiarism hazards )
Breaking News
"THE GOLDEN RULE"
"Gold and Intrigue in the Desert"
"The true story of the discovery of the Telfer gold mine"
Author : Bob Sheppard, President of the Australian Prospectors' Union
Author's contact & web page : www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/
Order from : Hesperian Press, PO Box 317 Victoria Park, 6979 W.Australia.
AUS 40.00 + post
Official launching done in Perth this 15th December 2002
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Pyriform" <nob...@nowhere.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3e9fd23a$0$11377$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Pyriform
> Nope !
> Since atomic clocks working is based on Atomic Decay Rate and those
> are variable values depending on the local Cosmic Density Atmosphere*
> !
> This in fact the reason for the discrepencies noted !
Fascinating. Please give further details of your Comic Density
Atmosphere theory. I want to see if I can unify it with Spaceman's time
pixie theory of clock malfunction. Please include all pertinent
mathematical detail, and propose an experimental validation of the
phenomenom. Write on only one side of the paper at a time.
--
Pyriform
Spaceman
"sam rooney" <SAM...@HETNET.NL> wrote in message news:113bde6e.03041...@posting.google.com...
No,
The clock dilates, time does not.
The clock malfunctions in it's proper function.
Please learn what time was invented for and don't worship a theory
that ignores the science of measurement.
Time dilations = clock malfunctions and optical illusion jokes only.
Time, in science, does not change rate at all.
--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman
Spaceman
"Pyriform" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3e9fe893$0$11375$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Fascinating. Please give further details of your Comic Density
> Atmosphere theory. I want to see if I can unify it with Spaceman's time
> pixie theory of clock malfunction. Please include all pertinent
> mathematical detail, and propose an experimental validation of the
> phenomenom. Write on only one side of the paper at a time.
You are the one with the pixies, and refuse to learn what time was invented for.
Sam Wormley
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/TimeDilation.html
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpecialRelativity.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=time+dilation+site%3Amath.ucr.edu+baez
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Neil Ashby
http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Clifford M. Will
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
Spaceman
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:3E9FFBCF...@mchsi.com...
<snipped the clock illiterate parrot post>
Sam,
Still refuse to learn what clocks and time were invented for huh?
Still refuse to learn how clocks function and malfunction huh?
How much do these website pay you?
Dirk Van de moortel
"Spaceman" <AgentS...@aol.combination> wrote in message news:1bTna.509646$L1.145502@sccrnsc02...
Still no peanuts to say how much
(-4) / 4 = ?
4 / (-4) = ?
while you have already declared that
4 / 4 = 1
(-4) / (-4) = 1
but that
(-4) * (-4) = -16
huh?
Dirk Vdm
Spaceman
"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KeTna.51247$t_2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
>
> "Spaceman" <AgentS...@aol.combination> wrote in message news:1bTna.509646$L1.145502@sccrnsc02...
> >
> > "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:3E9FFBCF...@mchsi.com...
> > <snipped the clock illiterate parrot post>
> >
> > Sam,
> > Still refuse to learn what clocks and time were invented for huh?
> > Still refuse to learn how clocks function and malfunction huh?
> > How much do these website pay you?
<snipped irrelevant parrot dung>
Dirk,
what was time invented for?
Dirk Van de moortel
"Spaceman" <AgentS...@aol.combination> wrote in message news:auTna.270737$Zo.51551@sccrnsc03...
For instance, to be able to know when to sow and when to harvest.
What was time invented for according to Peanutbrain?
Dirk Vdm
Spaceman
I don't a Peauntbrain except maybe you and your lemmings,
and BTW, you are wrong still.
Mike Varney
"Spaceman" <AgentS...@aol.combination> wrote in message
Dirk Van de moortel
"Spaceman" <AgentS...@aol.combination> wrote in message news:mYTna.512528$F1.71770@sccrnsc04...
So, you "don't a Peauntbrain". Nice to know.
And you don't have the peanuts to tell what time was invented for.
And you don't have the peanuts to say how much
(-4) / 4 = ?
4 / (-4) = ?
while you have already declared that
4 / 4 = 1
(-4) / (-4) = 1
but that
(-4) * (-4) = -16
Do you have peanuts to begin with?
Who is the real father of the kids you call yours?
Dirk Vdm
Spaceman
<snipped basic parroting>
I have stated what time was invented for many times here Dirk,
I need not post it again since you only ignore any facts and start your
parrot routine.
You like to stay clock illiterate don't you?
Lemmings such as you are always proving such!
<LOL>
Dirk Van de moortel
"Mike Varney" <anti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:CZTna.960$oo6....@news.uswest.net...
[snip]
> > > > Dirk,
> > > > what was time invented for?
> > >
> > > For instance, to be able to know when to sow and when to harvest.
> > > What was time invented for according to Peanutbrain?
> >
> > I don't a Peauntbrain except maybe you and your lemmings,
> > and BTW, you are wrong still.
Definitely:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/Peanut.html
Dirk Vdm
[#] jpturcaud
Mathematics is a tool to hide incomprehension of phenomenae behind a smoke
screen of cyclic redundant Hogwash !
An abscond language used by sickening analysists unable to reach synthetic
understanding !
You did not know ? Well you know it now !
Reg's jp
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Pyriform" <nob...@nowhere.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3e9fe893$0$11375$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Pyriform
> What the use of Mathematics if you don't understand the processus !
>
> Mathematics is a tool to hide incomprehension of phenomenae behind a
> smoke screen of cyclic redundant Hogwash !
I see. The Comic Density Atmosphere theory makes no predictions of its
own, but you expect us to ditch relativity in favour of your own
metaphysical speculation. Why would we do this?
At least give me a reason why it's a better theory than Spaceman's time
pixies. I'm having trouble distinguishing between them at the moment.
--
Pyriform
Gregory L. Hansen
[#] jpturcaud <jptu...@lycos.fr> wrote:
>What the use of Mathematics if you don't understand the processus !
>
>Mathematics is a tool to hide incomprehension of phenomenae behind a smoke
>screen of cyclic redundant Hogwash !
>An abscond language used by sickening analysists unable to reach synthetic
>understanding !
Mathematics is a tool that puts a theory on a quantitative basis so that
definite predictions can be made from it and then tested. Without
mathematics, all your theory can ever lead to is predictions like "It's
sort of like, you know, big, but not really big..." With a mathematical
expression new insights might be found. It's hard to think of how radio
waves would have been predicted by Maxwell's electromagnetic theory if
there were no Maxwell's equations to operate on, for instance.
Mathematics is also good for engineers that want to use the theory to
design things. If your theory doesn't have math then engineers can't use
it to design things (the ultimate sort of "prediction"), which means it
would be completely useless except for heady discussions that impress your
friends.
--
"Don't try to teach a pig how to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy
the pig."
[#] jpturcaud
Agree,
although the super heterodyne was designed by the "trial and error"
method ... and when Zenobe Gramme invented the DC generator ( and following
DC motor ) , Ampère came in line and on the blackboard demonstrated or
rather turned inot equation what was happening, it went over Gramme's head !
Still neither he, nor Barlow, Faraday or anyone were able of what a modest
Christophle employee had conceived on his kitchen table.
Kukulé conceived the molecular disposition of the benzene in his dream and
woke up with the correct design.
Nichola Tesla saw his working model of his rotating fields AC motor working
in his head, and drew it on the sand of the Belgrade park he was pacing !
... before realising it years after with Westinghouse's support
Etc...
NOW,
I really do not know what to think of your previous comments ... I mean the
ones from spaceman and pyriform.
Those really look sarcastic for all I know !
Right ? What the use then ?
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Gregory L. Hansen" <glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> a écrit dans le message
de news: b7phho$cr8$2...@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
MasterCougar
posted news:b7pqce$3mc$1...@news.tiscali.fr:
> Agree,
> although the super heterodyne was designed by the "trial and error"
>
*Yawn* Crack pot alert.
--
Marc,
This is where I would normally put a funny sig, but now I just don't have
it in me.
sam rooney
hmm. i thought i had made some progress there.....
so a measuring rod which contracts relativistically during the journey
will be shorter on its return ? obviously not.
so why does the proper time change absolutely but not the proper
length ?
i thought the lorentz transforms only measured the apparent
transformations as observed by an observer in a different IRF.
when the journey was over the rod would be the same length and the
same amount of time would have elapsed.
MasterCougar
news:113bde6e.03041...@posting.google.com:
> hmm. i thought i had made some progress there.....
> so a measuring rod which contracts relativistically during the journey
> will be shorter on its return ? obviously not.
>
Ignorant fool. Go back to highschool.
[#] jpturcaud
Hopeless trying to convey things that way !
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Hydro & Mining Prospector
Pioneer of Australian Mining
Discoverer of Telfer; Kintyre & Nifty Mines in The Great Sandy Desert.
Discoverer of the South Atlantic Submarine Gold Placers
_ 40 Millions Tons estimate _
Founder of The TRUE GEOLOGY
* The Greatest Australian Mining Covered Up Swindle Of The 20th Century
http://membres.lycos.fr/jpturcaud/
* The True Geology ( previously Refutation of the Horrid Geological Myths )
http://membres.lycos.fr/xxx/ ( Not available due to plagiarism hazards )
Breaking News
"THE GOLDEN RULE"
"Gold and Intrigue in the Desert"
"The true story of the discovery of the Telfer gold mine"
Author : Bob Sheppard, President of the Australian Prospectors' Union
Author's contact & web page : www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/
Order from : Hesperian Press, PO Box 317 Victoria Park, 6979 W.Australia.
AUS 40.00 + post
Official launching done in Perth this 15th December 2002
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"MasterCougar" <MstrC...@snotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
Xns9361D6638...@127.0.0.1...
MasterCougar
posted news:b7s0mh$3k9$1...@news.tiscali.fr:
> See what I mean !
> Hopeless trying to convey things that way !
>
>
Yes, you are hopeless, you top posting crack pot.
[#] jpturcaud
"MasterCougar" <MstrC...@snotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
Xns936291249...@127.0.0.1...
MasterCougar
> Fuck off clueless imbecile !!!
>
>
I resent that, I have a clue, or two.
sam rooney
> sam rooney wrote:
> > SR should be used for talking about 'apparent' dilations and
> > contractions only and GR for real time dilations.
> >
> >
> > IS THIS CORRECT .
>
> No. Both effects are real and measurable.
>
> See, for example, the following article on relativity in the Global
> Positioning System:
>
> http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashb
> y/index.html
from the document
----------------------------------------------------
The negative sign in this result means that the standard clock in
orbit is beating too fast, primarily because its frequency is
gravitationally blueshifted. In order for the satellite clock to
appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of
10.23 MHz, the satellite clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so
that the proper frequency is:
10.229 999 99543 MHZ
This adjustment is accomplished on the ground before the clock is
placed in orbit.
and
After the Cesium clock was turned on in NTS-2, it was operated for
about 20 days to measure its clock rate before turning on the
synthesizer [11]. The frequency measured during that interval was
+442.5 parts in 10^12 compared to clocks on the ground, while general
relativity predicted +446.5 parts in 10^12. The difference was well
within the accuracy capabilities of the orbiting clock. This then gave
about a 1% verification of the combined second-order Doppler and
gravitational frequency shift effects for a clock at 4.2 earth radii.
----------------------------------------------------
so the clocks speed up - not down - and the results are in line with
GR.
where is the 'time dilation' due to SR ?
is it the 2nd order Doppler shift ?
Michael McNeil
> On the dark and dreary 19 Apr 2003 "[#] jpturcaud" <jptu...@lycos.fr>
> posted news:b7sbus$dll$1...@news.tiscali.fr:
>
> > Fuck off clueless imbecile !!!
> >
> >
>
> I resent that, I have a clue, or two.
Here's another one:
If you must feed the turd do it in just one group's post.
MasterCougar
McNeil) posted news:290b5eaf.03042...@posting.google.com:
> Here's another one:
>
> If you must feed the turd do it in just one group's post.
>
Why? Or, more accurately, why should I bend my will to yours?
Felix Tilley
<jptu...@lycos.fr> Fri, 18 Apr 2003 04:47:09 -0700 wrote:
> Nope !
> Since atomic clocks working is based on Atomic Decay Rate and those are
> variable values depending on the local Cosmic Density Atmosphere* ! This
> in fact the reason for the discrepencies noted !
Dilate or dilitate your anus.
But not here. Just go away.
Felix in Tuscany
{#} jpturcaud
Thank you Bellix for forwarding notes to provider re your shortcomings and
stupidity.
Especially that the title forwarded of course is so tell-tale so to say,
that it shows not only you as an imbecile _ which everyone knows you are _
but as well as Hate Poster !
Go back to your pond Bellicus Bull-Toad of Bellix !!!!
.... my good friend President George W. Bush is completely ashamed of you
and your innate hate posts... I am overwhelmed by his suffering !!!
.... only destruction of Bellix 's toad pond should be solution, according
to US Operations Command's Standard !
NOW, adressing myself to the most dintiguished assistance :
Would you know, good people, if there is one cruise missile left for Bellix
D. Tilley of Arizona ?
Gee, that would only make only a puff of smoke !
Thanks for answer and proper direction to appropriate Cruise Missile
authorities !
jp
~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Felix Tilley" <fti...@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:vaeo52...@news.supernews.com...