Falling in love (MAJOR Differences in the SEXES)
thom95
In
<Pine.A41.3.95b.961120...@homer32.u.washington.edu>
"M. Gryphon" <mgry...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>
>
>
>You know, I seriously planned to give men up for at least nine months
when
>my lover left me, but it is really harder than it sounds. Men ask me
>out for little things like coffee or a drink, and I realize that it
>would be far more fun to hang out with them than be lonely and
thinking of
>my lost love, so I go. I tell them I'm not interested in getting
>romantically involved, but my guy friends usually eventually make a
pass,
>which can ruin the friendship if they feel rejected. What to do?
>
> -Marie
Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
to force men into LBJF....
moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
learn by it.....regards....Thom
>
>
Ariana
thom95 wrote:
> Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
> risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
> to force men into LBJF....
>
> moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>
>
>
> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
> learn by it.....regards....Thom
> >
> >
Bitter are we?
Ariana
Eric Chen
On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Ariana wrote:
> thom95 wrote:
>
> Bitter are we?
>
> Ariana
A lot of us are bitter, Ariana.
Eric
John Fereira
so buried in a misogynistic men vs. women mentality it's often hard
to find.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
Andrew Pavlin
John Fereira (fer...@isis.com) wrote:
Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how to
play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but they
won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but are
_just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
(at least, until the woman heals).
So, when's the next flirting class start?
Ariana
Andrew Pavlin wrote:
> : >Bitter are we?
> :
> : You noticed? Occasionally Thom will offer good advice however it's
> : so buried in a misogynistic men vs. women mentality it's often hard
> : to find.
>
> Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how to
> play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but they
> won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
>
> On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but are
> _just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
> only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
> (at least, until the woman heals).
>
> So, when's the next flirting class start?
Well, since so many guys seem to think this way, then there's
gotta be something in what you say. I mean, what do I know..I'm
part of the fairer sex...we have it easy sometimes (according to
some posts). Do what you want. As long as you can live with yourselves
afterwards. If you can play the game of getting someone interested in
you and prevent broken hearts from happening (because I know within,
you guys are just romantic at heart) then take the field away from these
"jerks". Just don't turn into one yourself! Now how's that for
flamable
advice. :)
Flirting class...interesting concept.
Could be trouble. :)
Ariana
Mark Allen Opheim
On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:47:22 -0500, Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>(because I know within, you guys are just romantic at heart)
yes. you HAVE seen the light.
Hey now, let's not spread that diamond. could be dangerous.
The Oxymoron of the Day: Dodge Ram
Bill Anderson
> > Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how
to
> > play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but
they
> > won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
> >
> > On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but
are
> > _just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
> > only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
> > (at least, until the woman heals).
> >
> > So, when's the next flirting class start?
>
> Well, since so many guys seem to think this way, then there's
> gotta be something in what you say. I mean, what do I know..I'm
> part of the fairer sex...we have it easy sometimes (according to
> some posts). Do what you want. As long as you can live with yourselves
> afterwards. If you can play the game of getting someone interested in
> you and prevent broken hearts from happening (because I know within,
> you guys are just romantic at heart) then take the field away from these
> "jerks". Just don't turn into one yourself! Now how's that for
> flamable
> advice. :)
>
> Flirting class...interesting concept.
> Could be trouble. :)
>
> Ariana
And then there are those of us who are a mix of the two.
flirting class? Guess I taught a few of those, trouble? Depends upon the
teacher. A good teacher will only teach those they know to have pure
motives.
Bill
jpsb
Bill Anderson (lord-...@usa.net) wrote:
: :
:
: > > Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how
I have my pen in hand and my note book out. Let the lessions begin. I
sure could use them.
js
do...@ix.netcom.com
pav...@news.stratus.com (Andrew Pavlin) wrote:
>John Fereira (fer...@isis.com) wrote:
>: In article <329C57...@ica.net> ari...@ica.net writes:
>: >thom95 wrote:
>: >> Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
>: >> risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
>: >> to force men into LBJF....
>: >>
>: >> moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
>: >> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>: >> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
>: >> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>: >> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>: >>
>: >> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>: >> learn by it.....regards....Thom
>: >> >
>: >> >
>: >Bitter are we?
>:
>: You noticed? Occasionally Thom will offer good advice however it's
>: so buried in a misogynistic men vs. women mentality it's often hard
>: to find.
>
>Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how to
>play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but they
>won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex. (Sure, other things could be nice,
but don't EVER let her think of you the same way she thinks of her own
brother!)
>
>On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but are
>_just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
>only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
>(at least, until the woman heals).
Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault, and
if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
do...@ix.netcom.com
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>thom95 wrote:
>
>> Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
>> risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
>> to force men into LBJF....
>>
>> moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
>> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
>> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>>
>>
>>
>> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>> learn by it.....regards....Thom
>> >
>> >
>Bitter are we?
>
>Ariana
Yeah, up until about 35 or thereabouts--you know, when men would rather
watchbaseball than have sex with you.
Unless of course, you are a 19 year-old woman.
You women have it made for the first half of the game, and then we don't need
you anymore.
Peace!
dg...@gateway.ecn.com
do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
: >> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
: >> learn by it.....regards....Thom
: >> >
: >> >
: >Bitter are we?
: >
: >Ariana
: Yeah, up until about 35 or thereabouts--you know, when men would rather
: watchbaseball than have sex with you.
: Unless of course, you are a 19 year-old woman.
: You women have it made for the first half of the game, and then we don't need
: you anymore.
I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm about to turn 32, and one of the
great pleasures of that is I don't have to date women in their 20s
anymore. Sure they look great, but most are selfish manipulative
game players (an opinion I came to in my 20s, maybe I wasn't any
better). I still enjoy dating great looking women, though (and yeah,
something happens to many women after age 30, but then there are a
lot of dumpy looking guys around as well). Or maybe you mean it as
a revenge thing -- I don't need you as much as I once did because
I can go younger if I want. That's not a good attitude to bring to
dating, women can see through it. But as a guy who spent a lot of
time alone at college parties I know what you mean.
Judi Moon
wrongo!! that doesnt work either! the guys that tried that with me,
well i told them in no uncertain terms that i wanted a relationship...a
confidant, a companion, someone to care about me as a person, not as
something they can have sex with. 99% of the time i never heard from em
again.
(Sure, other things could be nice,
> but don't EVER let her think of you the same way she thinks of her own
> brother!)
> well since i dont HAVE a brother i couldnt possibly feel that way toward
a fellow. i was looking for someone interested in doing the "nice other
things". maybe this attitude is why i simply couldnt find it.
> >
>
> Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault, and
> if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
>
> nope. takes two people to make a relationship work or fail. if one isnt willing to work on it and the other is...the one that is will soon
get tired of trying so much. the mistake is assuming everyone will
behave the same way. everyone is different. to hold a grudge against
all men/women because of the experiences you had with one is foolish.
i think that was the point they were trying to make.
Mark Evans
Andrew Pavlin (pav...@news.stratus.com) wrote:
:
: Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how to
: play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but they
: won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
Also they may have plenty of people telling him he is whineing, or
"it will happen someday" and such crap.
: On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but are
: _just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
Unless it is accepted by these women that it is a game.
: only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
: (at least, until the woman heals).
:
: So, when's the next flirting class start?
They don't appear to exist. The only way to learn would be by practice
but if someone can't play well to start with they arn't going to
be able to practice very well.
Ariana
Bill Anderson wrote:
> And then there are those of us who are a mix of the two.
I think I'm a mix too :).
>
> flirting class? Guess I taught a few of those, trouble? Depends upon the
> teacher. A good teacher will only teach those they know to have pure
> motives.
Okay, I have my notebook ready and my pencil in hand. haha.
So...pure motives while flirting? Interesting.
Ariana
Ariana
Mark Evans wrote:
> Maybe you need to find out the game from the man's POV, you might
> well learn a lot.
maybe..but that's about as easy as telling a man to learn it from
a female point of view. But you can try, I suppose.
> : some posts). Do what you want. As long as you can live with yourselves
> : afterwards. If you can play the game of getting someone interested in
> ^^
> You will find that that is the major stumbling block.
>
> Also why do you insist that men solve a problem where it's WOMEN who are
> in the driving seat.
I'm not insisting that one gender should solve the problems. I'm just
saying
that when someone has a problem, they should try to solve it. Anyways,
what
do you want us to do? We do ask guys out (although not as frequently or
easily
as guys in general). Everyone just has to figure out what's best for
them,
and how they can become more attractive without compromising themselves
(if that's
what they want).
> Maybe you women need to change how you select men...
Maybe. (argh, I can't believe I'm feeling nettled.)
Okay, look. There are so many types of people all looking for different
types of things. Sure, a "player" might get more action, because that's
what he wants right? He can flirt with women (who don't want commitment
either)
and seduce them. I always thought the romantic type guy was the type to
wait and hope for the "one" true love. Obviously it's not easy to find,
but if that's what you're looking for, that's what you're looking for.
Or be a mix of both.
As an aside:
I have a friend that fits the category of "nice guy" perfectly. We
often talk (like brother & sister of course). He's been pining for
this girl that now has a bf and obviously takes him for granted, but
he's willing to wait a long time for her. He's smart, funny,
intelligent
and I've been attracted to him before (so have a few of my friends).
Unfortunately, now he just sits there and looks glum all the time.
He has potential to be really attractive, but he won't take it. He's
been asked out at least once by a really attractive girl and he said
that he couldn't, because his heart was already taken. He also
complains
that no one else would want to go out with him, but honestly, he doesn't
give them a chance. He's in his own world of self-pity right now and I
have
no idea how to break him out of it. Now don't tell me that it's the
fault
of women that he doesn't have a gf, okay?
Ranting and Raving,
Ariana
Ariana
do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex. (Sure, other things could be nice,
> but don't EVER let her think of you the same way she thinks of her own
> brother!)
Yeah, let her know that you're only looking for a carnal relationship.
No talking allowed. That way you can't get emotionally attached to her
while relieving your sexual frustrations. Killing 2 birds with one
stone.
>
>
> Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault, and
> if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
Well, I see you're learning.
>
Sarcastically Yours,
Ariana
Ariana
dg...@gateway.ecn.com wrote:
>
> do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> : You women have it made for the first half of the game, and then we don't need
> : you anymore.
>
friends are
fairly introverted and quite intelligent. About half of them have bf's
and about
half of them don't. Last night, I was chatting with 2 of them that
don't have bf's. One of them has been described to me (by my guy
friends) as the perfect
SO except that she's 6' tall and weighs proportional to that. She's
intelligent,
sweet, athletic and everything. She has many male friends and
acquaintances, but
nothing more. The other one is quite attractive (and guys have told me
so) but
she's so extremely introverted and can't seem to overcome it. They
don't have it made. So you mean it gets worse?
For myself, I enjoy perusing newsgroups and logging on. There seems to
be
a social stigma against that. I am jokingly known among some of my
peers as
being a "geek". Now I can handle this in two ways. I can say, well, if
they
can't accept me for who I am, then tough, they aren't the right guy. Or
I can
say, okay, maybe they are right...I shouldn't log on so much. This way
I won't
be a social misfit anymore. So, is it my fault that I'm not accepted
when
I log on, or is the fault of men who don't like to have a "geeky"
girlfriend.
Anyway, just to clarify, I'm not a geek even though I'm interested in
computers. I have a reputation to maintain here. :) Besides, I digress.
About half of my male friends have SO's and about half of those fit
perfectly
into the "nice guy" category. Some of the ones that don't have
girlfriends don't want one. They like having the freedom to flirt and
be friends with as many
girls as they want without having any commitment.
So I'm going to try to be quiet now, because we can argue and beat
this to death and still not get anywhere. :)
Ariana
Mark Evans
Ariana (ari...@ica.net) wrote:
: Andrew Pavlin wrote:
:
: > : >Bitter are we?
: > :
: > : You noticed? Occasionally Thom will offer good advice however it's
: > : so buried in a misogynistic men vs. women mentality it's often hard
: > : to find.
: > Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how to
: > play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but they
: > won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
: > _just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
: > (at least, until the woman heals).
: >
: > So, when's the next flirting class start?
: Well, since so many guys seem to think this way, then there's
: gotta be something in what you say. I mean, what do I know..I'm
: part of the fairer sex...we have it easy sometimes (according to
Maybe you need to find out the game from the man's POV, you might
well learn a lot.
BTW the game does not have to be played by gender, but the majority
of the "straight scene" don't want to know that.
: some posts). Do what you want. As long as you can live with yourselves
: afterwards. If you can play the game of getting someone interested in
^^
You will find that that is the major stumbling block.
Also why do you insist that men solve a problem where it's WOMEN who are
in the driving seat.
: you and prevent broken hearts from happening (because I know within,
: you guys are just romantic at heart) then take the field away from these
: "jerks". Just don't turn into one yourself! Now how's that for
: flamable
: advice. :)
Maybe you women need to change how you select men...
:
: Flirting class...interesting concept.
: Could be trouble. :)
Would be a big step forward in honesty.
Charles Hope
thom95 (thom...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In
: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961120...@homer32.u.washington.edu>
: "M. Gryphon" <mgry...@u.washington.edu> writes:
: >
: >
: >
: >You know, I seriously planned to give men up for at least nine months
: when
: >my lover left me, but it is really harder than it sounds. Men ask me
: >out for little things like coffee or a drink, and I realize that it
: >would be far more fun to hang out with them than be lonely and
: thinking of
: >my lost love, so I go. I tell them I'm not interested in getting
: >romantically involved, but my guy friends usually eventually make a
: pass,
: >which can ruin the friendship if they feel rejected. What to do?
: >
: > -Marie
: Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
: risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
: to force men into LBJF....
The main difference I see is the way this woman swore off dating for 9
months. This may be typical behavior for women after a bad relationship.
I have a female friend that's doing just that, and she's turning down
advances from "nice" guys left and right, because she's "getting over"
the last one.
Maybe this is good! I went out with, and fell hard for a woman in this
position that did not reject all advances, and accepted mine, and we were
together for a year and she went back to the old boyfriend. So perhaps if
a woman says she's unstable and it's "too soon", she knows the truth and
you shouldn't pressure her.
But getting back, while some women may avoid anything after a bad
breakup, how many men do this? I don't, and most of my friends don't.
Loneliness increases my depression. I can't reject a woman that I really
like simply because the timing is bad. To hell with timing! Let's see
where it goes! I would forever regret having not done so!
Charles
A.Boodoo
jpsb wrote:
>
> Bill Anderson (lord-...@usa.net) wrote:
> : :
> :
> : > > Thom may be bitter, but he's absolutely correct. Men who don't know how
> : to
> : > > play the game may have loads of female friends & acquaintances, but
> : they
> : > > won't have an intimate relationship with any of them.
> : > >
> : > > On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but
> : are
> : > > _just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
> : > > only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
> : > > (at least, until the woman heals).
> : > >
> : > > So, when's the next flirting class start?
> : >
> : > Well, since so many guys seem to think this way, then there's
> : > gotta be something in what you say. I mean, what do I know..I'm
> : > part of the fairer sex...we have it easy sometimes (according to
> : > afterwards. If you can play the game of getting someone interested in
> : > you guys are just romantic at heart) then take the field away from these
> : > "jerks". Just don't turn into one yourself! Now how's that for
> : > flamable
> : > advice. :)
> : > Flirting class...interesting concept.
> : > Could be trouble. :)
> : > Ariana
> : And then there are those of us who are a mix of the two.
> :
> : flirting class? Guess I taught a few of those, trouble? Depends upon the
> : teacher. A good teacher will only teach those they know to have pure
> : motives.
> : Bill
> :
> I have my pen in hand and my note book out. Let the lessions begin. I
> sure could use them.
This is true, women apparently don't want someone who understands them
(or so I've been told...). But WHY?
Surely having a man who understands women is like a dream come true - but
I had this debate with someone before, and she couldn't explain the
reason for this.
The question is, why are understanding and sensitive men not taken
seriously. When we try and attract women, it is by being sensitive and
understanding, and women see that as friendship, and only that...
A.Boodoo
thom95
In <329C57...@ica.net> Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
>thom95 wrote:
>
>> Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
>> risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying
often
>> to force men into LBJF....
>>
>> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go
without*.....there
>> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>>
>>
>>
and
>> learn by it.....regards....Thom
>> >
>> >
>Bitter are we?
>
>Ariana
No actually pragmatic , AND more able to get what I want....
ego-centric maybe though..! :) regards, Thom
Thierry Sengstag
> well i told them in no uncertain terms that i wanted a relationship...a
> confidant, a companion, someone to care about me as a person, not as
> something they can have sex with. 99% of the time i never heard from em
> again.
Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
I have to say...)
So. What do we do ?
(I answered that question with : "FORTRAN programs", but maybe you have
a better one to suggest...)
Cheers, Thierry
Ariana
A.Boodoo wrote:
> This is true, women apparently don't want someone who understands them
> (or so I've been told...). But WHY?
>
> Surely having a man who understands women is like a dream come true - but
> I had this debate with someone before, and she couldn't explain the
> reason for this.
>
> The question is, why are understanding and sensitive men not taken
> seriously. When we try and attract women, it is by being sensitive and
> understanding, and women see that as friendship, and only that...
>
> A.Boodoo
Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
Ariana
nstn...@fox.nstn.ca
To 'truly understand a woman' what does it mean when one
decodes the message? In my experience when a woman wants a man to
'understand' her she means to accept whatever she is doing or
have done without resentment. In fact he should be almost happy.
For example a women with a spouse or with a boyfriend on a business trip
has a one night fling with an attractive man. She may or may not have
guilt feelings about it. If she tells him about that or if he finds it
out he should 'understand' the explanation and carry on as if nothing
has happened. Then perhaps he will be considered to be a sensitive man.
And I do agree with this. However, after several repeat performance,
I would not call him a sensitive man. Then he could be called a
fool or a prisoner of torrid love.
Mark
Simon Read
do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault,
> and if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
Ah, so young, and yet... so twisted. Remarkable!
Simon
P.S. I know what, why don't we start a flame war between the six groups
which this message is posted to? It would be between the
alt.Im.so.incredibly.unhappy groups and the alt.delerious.with.mirth
groups. The former would be rendered suicidal and the latter would go
away feeling utterly smug and superior. We could even call in technology
and start multiple spams of the appropriate newsgroups, countered by
cancelbots which remove any posting with any merit. What do you say, Don?
Ariana
thom95 wrote:
> >Bitter are we?
> >
> >Ariana
>
> No actually pragmatic , AND more able to get what I want....
>
> ego-centric maybe though..! :) regards, Thom
Okay..hard to tell online I guess. Are you saying the more
self-centered you get, the more girls you get? Should whap
you in the head for leaving such a message. <grin> Or maybe
I should stop misinterpreting you.
Ariana
Ariana
Thierry Sengstag wrote:
> Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
> for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
> discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
> possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
> or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
> way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
> that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
> I have to say...)
>
> So. What do we do ?
>
> (I answered that question with : "FORTRAN programs", but maybe you have
> a better one to suggest...)
>
> Cheers, Thierry
Boy am I in a laughing mood today. But I better not laugh just incase
I make a fool of myself. You obviously shouldn't be doing FORTRAN
programs.
Jeez! What are you thinking? C is the way to go.
oh yeah, another thing. When you tried solution 1, were you being
honest?
If yes, I'm going to have to reanalyze my whole opinion of men in
general.
Ariana
Robert Blackshaw
Simon Read <bbr...@ftc.gov> wrote:
>Simon
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But Simon you have just left him speechless. :-)
Bob
"If we were without faults, we should not take
so much pleasure in remarking them in others."
Rochefoucauld
Ariana
Charles Hope wrote:
> Maybe this is good! I went out with, and fell hard for a woman in this
> position that did not reject all advances, and accepted mine, and we were
> together for a year and she went back to the old boyfriend. So perhaps if
> a woman says she's unstable and it's "too soon", she knows the truth and
> you shouldn't pressure her.
>
Well, there is truth to that. At this point in my life, I feel like
I will never fall in love with anyone as much as my ex. I have already
subconciously (well, I guess it's concious now) put up walls against
this for a while. My ex was caring and sensitive most of the time but
not emotional enough for me (about as emotional as a rock :)). Heh. My
walls are even up against him. They are up against everyone, no matter
how nice or mean they are. Even if I find someone attractive (which I
often do), it doesn't mean that I want to start a relationship with
them.
However, I do have a guy friend that I lean on when I need emotional
support and vice versa. There's nothing wrong with that. He doesn't
expect anything
more either. The wierd thing is that about 4 months ago, he asked me
if we wanted to be a couple. I was slightly shocked, and I asked him
why
he would ask me that. His mentality was that since we talk so much,
it wouldn't make much difference if we were going out or not, so we
might
as well. I told him that I didn't think it was a good idea (and I knew
beforehand that he didn't really want a gf) and he said, okay. Just
asking.
We are still just as good friends and I still tease him when he's after
some girl.
So maybe guys just have a different mentality. Why do you have to
immediately
find a SO? Isn't it just nice to be friends with a bunch of girls
sometimes
instead? It can be fun. :)
Ariana
Eric Chen
On 30 Nov 1996, thom95 wrote:
> In <329F05...@ica.net> Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
> >
> A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in the
> cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the horns...
Yep.
> >So maybe guys just have a different mentality. Why do you have to
> >immediately
> >find a SO? Isn't it just nice to be friends with a bunch of girls
> >sometimes
> >instead? It can be fun. :)
> >
> >Ariana
"Instead"? You say that as though having a relationship is a normal state
and not having a relationship is taking a break. Girls that I consider my
peers do seem to always have a relationship readily available, either in
one or as an offered option. Guys that I consider my peers make friends
easily enough, but relationships are scarce and, in sad instances, fought
over.
Friends who are girls are fine. But they ain't girlfriends. You can be
surrounded by friends day and night and still go to sleep lonely and
empty.
Eric
Eric Chen
On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Ariana wrote:
> Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
> At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
>
The same holds true for men.
I admit that I don't understand women. All I can offer an SO is that I'll
try.
Eric
Don Cameron
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>Thierry Sengstag wrote:
>
>> Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
>> for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
>> discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
>> possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
>> or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
>> way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
>> that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
>> I have to say...)
>>
>> So. What do we do ?
>>
Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
"sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
But, TRY Jefferies techniqiues. I have been trying to be nice for a long time,
while "confident" men scored with all the desirable women. Now I have adopted
the Jefferies techniques, and they WORK!!!
Listen a lot of people on here are going to whine, but what have you got to
lose? At worst, you will do as poorly as you have been doing. And, if it works,
you never have to feel like rejection-city again.
It isn't a pretty game, but it is the only one in town.
Don Cameron
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>A.Boodoo wrote:
>
>> This is true, women apparently don't want someone who understands them
>> (or so I've been told...). But WHY?
>>
>> Surely having a man who understands women is like a dream come true - but
>> I had this debate with someone before, and she couldn't explain the
>> reason for this.
>>
>> The question is, why are understanding and sensitive men not taken
>> seriously. When we try and attract women, it is by being sensitive and
>> understanding, and women see that as friendship, and only that...
Because you are not acting like a "man". Women KNOW we want them for sex.
They lament it. They gripe about it. Bt unless you approach her with
passion in mind, you might as well be her gay hairdresser.
>>
>> A.Boodoo
>
>Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
>At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
>
>Ariana
Yeah Ariana, what about all those "nice" guys you pat on the head and tell
"Let's Just Be Friends."
thom95
BINGO..!!! Guys ARE tired of LBJF......Girls NEVER Get IT....they
want constantly all the support of a relationship without giving back
ROMANCE to these guys... The problem wouldn't be so great IF it
were evenly distributed.....IF GUys could find romance at every CORNER
with little trouble then THEY too wouldn't be STARVED for ROMANCE
.....but guess WHAt they get "Friendship" at every corner and thats
always what they are looking for.. BOTH sexes suffer from this ,BUT it
is the FEMALE who starts this whole scenario going by her often
obsessing over past and future guys really not obtainable and
CONCURRENT dismissal of good guys on "Her Level" Do to this silly
selection process of women ..guys ARE entitled to DO whatever to get
their needs met...REMEMBER the female only SAYS yes when she finds it
enticing enough.... WOMEN aren't thinking of your NEEDS they are
thinking of their OWN....
A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in the
cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the horns...
..Do Women GET THIS...?
>So maybe guys just have a different mentality. Why do you have to
>immediately
>find a SO? Isn't it just nice to be friends with a bunch of girls
>sometimes
>instead? It can be fun. :)
>
>Ariana
This women DOESN"T get it...!
thom95
actually the more I both rely on want I'm trying to accomplish AND
also realize what the person of the opposite sex is gravitating towards
(not my FALSE images of what she should do)... there becomes a happy
medium somewhere in the middle that both can feel satisfied..
Quadrille
Hi there.
Someone along the way here said:
> Maybe you women need to change how you select men...
> Would be a big step forward in honesty.
How do "we women" select men? Gee, I missed the last meeting, so I
don't know what the group decision turned out to be. Meanwhile, here's
how it happens for me:
Every once in a blue moon, I meet someone who is really on my wavelength
-- shares a certain percentage of interests in music, books, and other
subjects; quotes the same songs and poems (and Monty Python movies), has
a great sense of humor, but also has different interesting ideas to
offer and seems open to meeting and spending time with someone new. I
may come to care quite a bit about such a person, and hence call him or
her a "friend."
On a couple of even rarer occasions, I've grown very close to a friend
and the timing has been right -- hormones have reached a certain level,
there's a critical mass of mutual need, we're both "available" -- and
then a frienship can turn into what most people define as a "romantic"
relationship.
In other words, I "select" friends, not men. The romantic relationship
is just an extra dimension added on.
Since it has been postulated above that all women select partners in the
same manner, I suppose I'll have to assume that all other women act as I
do . . . perhaps one of the experts here could clarify for me what's
wrong with this process, and what I should be doing to correct it? What
is it I'm doing that's so dishonest?
Thanks ever so much.
-- Quadrille
P.S. -- For the record, my partners would all probably fall safely into
the "nice guy" category. Also, we've remained close friends (why would
that change?) even after ending the romantic aspect of the relationship
. . . clearly, there's something else here that I'm doing terribly
wrong.
thom95
In <Pine.SUN.3.95.961129...@interport.net> Eric Chen
>
>> >So maybe guys just have a different mentality. Why do you have to
>> >immediately
>> >find a SO? Isn't it just nice to be friends with a bunch of girls
>> >sometimes
>> >instead? It can be fun. :)
>> >
>> >Ariana
>
state
>and not having a relationship is taking a break. Girls that I consider
my
>peers do seem to always have a relationship readily available, either
in
>one or as an offered option. Guys that I consider my peers make
friends
>easily enough, but relationships are scarce and, in sad instances,
fought
>over.
>
>Friends who are girls are fine. But they ain't girlfriends. You can be
>surrounded by friends day and night and still go to sleep lonely and
>empty.
>
>
>Eric
>
>
>
>
comments here that many girls in this age group (who have these
options) can't see it from a different perspective..
often out of sight is often out of mind ...and comments like "why
don't guys just want more friends " prevail...
e/evan/altendorf
In article <57j46q$a...@lex.zippo.com>, <do...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex. (Sure, other things could be
>nice, but don't EVER let her think of you the same way she thinks of her
>own brother!)
Damn, wish my girlfriend would have told me this before I fell in
love with her, and she dumped me because I didn't give her the sex she
wanted in the apartment she wanted me to get for her (despite the fact
that she never told me she wanted either sex or an apartment) ... and
all I wanted was some love ... Yes, beleive it or not, a girl
actually used a guy for sexual purposes and then when she was done
said "I'm tired of you" (a direct quote).
Ever eaten the chemicals from inside an automotive emergency flare?
Bitter...
and still alone,
-e.
(No, not bitter at you. Just at people who like to fuck me around.)
Don Cameron
Simon Read <bbr...@ftc.gov> wrote:
>do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault,
>> and if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
>
>Ah, so young, and yet... so twisted. Remarkable!
Not really, I date women.
>
>
>Simon
>
>P.S. I know what, why don't we start a flame war between the six groups
>which this message is posted to? It would be between the
>alt.Im.so.incredibly.unhappy groups and the alt.delerious.with.mirth
>groups. The former would be rendered suicidal and the latter would go
>away feeling utterly smug and superior. We could even call in technology
>and start multiple spams of the appropriate newsgroups, countered by
>cancelbots which remove any posting with any merit. What do you say, Don?
>
I have my own agenda. You do as thou wilt.
Don Cameron
dg...@gateway.ecn.com wrote:
>do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>: Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>
>: >> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>: >> learn by it.....regards....Thom
>: >> >
>: >> >
>: >Bitter are we?
>: >
>: >Ariana
>
>
>: Yeah, up until about 35 or thereabouts--you know, when men would rather
>: watchbaseball than have sex with you.
>
>: Unless of course, you are a 19 year-old woman.
>
>: You women have it made for the first half of the game, and then we don't need
>: you anymore.
>
>I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm about to turn 32, and one of the
>great pleasures of that is I don't have to date women in their 20s
>anymore. Sure they look great, but most are selfish manipulative
>game players (an opinion I came to in my 20s, maybe I wasn't any
>better). I still enjoy dating great looking women, though (and yeah,
>something happens to many women after age 30, but then there are a
>lot of dumpy looking guys around as well). Or maybe you mean it as
>a revenge thing -- I don't need you as much as I once did because
>I can go younger if I want. That's not a good attitude to bring to
>dating, women can see through it. But as a guy who spent a lot of
>time alone at college parties I know what you mean.
I meant it as "just desserts". Women control the game for the first ten years
of sexual activity, and they take great joy in picking, choosing, and teasing.
However, as our libido drops, and theirs goes up, the roles reverse.
To every woman out there who ever played even the slightest head game, or
griped because "that's all men want", I give you a gem of wisdom--you could
have spent your time being a little more understanding. You could have tried to
be accommodate your partners instead of selfishly focusing only on your own
needs. The world would have been a much better place for you, as our genders
would have been a bit more understanding, and compassionate, towards each other
now.
But, instead you have the world you have. You didn't give a damn about our
physical and emotional needs back then, and we are now returning the favor.
Teach your daughters not to make the same mistakes.
And throw away your own personal dreams...
Don Cameron
alte...@il.ENGR.ORST.EDU (e/evan/altendorf) wrote:
Ummm... Not to belittle your plight, but if you had reead Jefferies book, you
should have seen this coming... I'll e-mail you a copy if you want.
Don Cameron
nstn...@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
>Ariana wrote:
>>
>> A.Boodoo wrote:
>>
>> > This is true, women apparently don't want someone who understands them
>> > (or so I've been told...). But WHY?
>> >
>> > Surely having a man who understands women is like a dream come true - but
>> > I had this debate with someone before, and she couldn't explain the
>> > reason for this.
>> >
>> > The question is, why are understanding and sensitive men not taken
>> > seriously. When we try and attract women, it is by being sensitive and
>> > understanding, and women see that as friendship, and only that...
>> >
>> > A.Boodoo
>>
>> Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
>> At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
>>
>> Ariana..........................................................................................
>
>
>To 'truly understand a woman' what does it mean when one
>decodes the message? In my experience when a woman wants a man to
>'understand' her she means to accept whatever she is doing or
>have done without resentment. In fact he should be almost happy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the nose! My whole attitude is that my partner does whatever she wants, and
no matter how stupid I think it is, I take a "hands-off" approach. But, that
aon't good enough for most women. They want you to like the fact they are doing
what they are doing.
How damned insecure woman is, to need such affirmation of her own desires.
>
>For example a women with a spouse or with a boyfriend on a business trip
>has a one night fling with an attractive man. She may or may not have
>guilt feelings about it. If she tells him about that or if he finds it
>out he should 'understand' the explanation and carry on as if nothing
>has happened. Then perhaps he will be considered to be a sensitive man.
Oh yeah, I know LOTS of women who are willing to be totally equal if you
reverse the roles on THIS one!
HA!!! They cut you offf for weeks and never let you forget!
Don Cameron
Thierry Sengstag <thierry....@psi.ch> wrote:
>Judi Moon wrote:
>>
>> do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex.
>>
>> wrongo!! that doesnt work either! the guys that tried that with me,
>> well i told them in no uncertain terms that i wanted a relationship...a
>> confidant, a companion, someone to care about me as a person, not as
>> something they can have sex with. 99% of the time i never heard from em
>> again.
>
>Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
>for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
>discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
>possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
>or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
>way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
>that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
>I have to say...)
>
All I want to know is why the frost queens on here assume that if you are
looking for sex you DON'T want a relationship.
Yo! Judi! You want a boyfriend you never have sex with? What??? The answer is
"Of course not!"???
Well then doesn't it make sense that if a man wants a relationship with a woman
that INCLUDES sex he had better not approach it like he wants platonic???
Did I say that he should tell her he is ONLY interested in sex??? NO!!!
But he should make it clear that sex is part of what he is looking for!
Fourty fucking years of women demanding we express our feelings, and we are
still supposed to act like our sex drive is dirty...
Until women accept us for who we are, you can expect this war to continue.
Eric Chen
On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Don Cameron wrote:
> To every woman out there who ever played even the slightest head game, or
> griped because "that's all men want", I give you a gem of wisdom--you could
> have spent your time being a little more understanding. You could have tried to
> be accommodate your partners instead of selfishly focusing only on your own
> needs. The world would have been a much better place for you, as our genders
> would have been a bit more understanding, and compassionate, towards each other
> now.
>
Good advice.
It's wrong when the man or the woman is insensitive and selfish. Men and
women should be looking out for each other. It should one of the basics of
relationships.
From personal experience, it's embittering to think that you've worked
hard to adjust to her and she only does whatever makes her feel good.
There are reasons I'm glad that my ex broke up with me. I feel proud that
I finally looked out for myself in the relationship and asked her to be
there for me, instead of just the other way around. She didn't want to do
that and I'm not going to accept an SO who won't do that.
Eric
thom95
I met a young and pretty girl out with my friends last night...we
had good conversation we teased, flirted and seduced each other...YES
it was stuff that I have learned through practice and "trial and error"
its s
tuff that years ago I would have "f**ked" up and ended up kicking
myself later for...but not now ..not this time.
.....we had fun ...she ended giving me a "blow job" in my car*...I
liked it ..she liked it... we were both laughing and having FUN .we
exchanged big smiles and phone numbers ...when I went back inside my
buddies grinne
d ...she grinned while leaving ...all together I had a f**king good
time....!!
NO ITS NOT ABOUT SEX ITS ABOUT DESIRE ON A ROMANTIC/SEXUAL
LEVEL....Whether it happened on the third date or in the third
hour...its about the POWER of making it happen....
IS IT ABOUT long term commitment ? Who knows? ITS about the
ability of HAving Romantic Choices for long term commitments .IF Not
her there are many more and more frequent choices for men who know
*seduction skills*
Does this mean men are Breaking Women's Hearts Now?
(I always love this one) Thats a stretch ! Overnight the man
goes from constant LBJF to breaking ones hearts? The reality is the
man is just moving somewhat closer to the level of control that
attractive females in their 20's (early 30's) often have. Really now,
females are often out to have "just fun" and as can be seen from many
of these posts its not guys who are always breaking someones heart...
Did I sacrifice any "inner values" to get to this point ?
Did I scarifice my earlier principles?
You know what ?
Maybe /maybe not but who cares?
What I do know and FEEL is that I totally enjoyed (not necessarily
ONLY the physical) the occurence BUT the feeling of want and DESIRE
from an very attractive female..to me thats a powerful aphrodisiac...no
amount of
listening nor lectures about values and about be a "nice boy " can
replace....
The feelings(of these situations which occur more frequently than
before) that I have more and more control really reduces to *nil* any
arguments about moral imperatives .
..And the more I realize about going without in the past AND/OR
watching my close friends get shafted all the
time MAKES ME EVEN MORE PASSIONATE ABOUT MY VIEWPOINT..!! (of
learning how to improve your seduction skills) As Readers of my Posts
can tell..
I really LIKE being able to have more power (not saying I'm
anywhere close to being perfect)and control I RESENT not having THIS
in the past.
And you know what....? Everybody won here... I felt happy ..she
had fun....and probably has an a "wild" story for her girlfriends...
And you know what also? The posts by men being angry about how
LBJF' s occur to "nice guys" and that women don't respond to
that...IS the first step for men in defining the playing field and
obstacles ..An ANGER STEP that
needs to be gone through to sufficiently motivate men to try different
approaches
and give them theIMPETUS to change..! There is no way around this..
No anger = no motivation to find a way out...
So the next time you critisize a guy for being angry of the "Status
Quo" or in noticing things that he thinks are funny in what females
respond to....think of my story.....Its now 6:20 AM...I have been out
all night.. I enjoyed myself...I n
eed some sleep......Regards ...Thom
Mark Evans
Don Cameron (donca...@earthlink.net) wrote:
:
: All I want to know is why the frost queens on here assume that if you are
: looking for sex you DON'T want a relationship.
:
: Yo! Judi! You want a boyfriend you never have sex with? What??? The answer is
: "Of course not!"???
:
: Well then doesn't it make sense that if a man wants a relationship with a woman
: that INCLUDES sex he had better not approach it like he wants platonic???
:
: Did I say that he should tell her he is ONLY interested in sex??? NO!!!
:
: But he should make it clear that sex is part of what he is looking for!
Herein apparently lies the problem, all too many women assume that
if a guy want's sex that's all he wants. Communication is a two part
process, someone can say something as clearly as the like, but if the
problems on the "receiving" side then that will make little or no difference.
:
: Fourty fucking years of women demanding we express our feelings, and we are
Demanding that, but at the same time being unable to accept it actually
happening.
: still supposed to act like our sex drive is dirty...
:
Mark Evans
thom95 (thom...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: BINGO..!!! Guys ARE tired of LBJF......Girls NEVER Get IT....they
: want constantly all the support of a relationship without giving back
: ROMANCE to these guys... The problem wouldn't be so great IF it
: were evenly distributed.....IF GUys could find romance at every CORNER
: with little trouble then THEY too wouldn't be STARVED for ROMANCE
: .....but guess WHAt they get "Friendship" at every corner and thats
Except that a different word is really needed, since "friendship" in the
LJBF context often isn't any form of real friendship.
Mark Evans
Don Cameron (donca...@earthlink.net) wrote:
:
: Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
: "sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
:
: But, TRY Jefferies techniqiues. I have been trying to be nice for a long time,
: while "confident" men scored with all the desirable women. Now I have adopted
: the Jefferies techniques, and they WORK!!!
:
: Listen a lot of people on here are going to whine, but what have you got to
: lose? At worst, you will do as poorly as you have been doing. And, if it works,
: you never have to feel like rejection-city again.
:
: It isn't a pretty game, but it is the only one in town.
And what many women simply don't get is that it is a game only women
can change the rules of.
John Fereira
Maybe in your world. Maybe your definition of friendship isn't the
same as mine but every occurance that I've had with someone that said
LJBF has resulted in what I would consider a good friend.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
shoc...@tarnover.mv.com
In <Pine.SUN.3.95.961129...@interport.net>, Eric Chen <dc...@interport.net> writes:
>> >So maybe guys just have a different mentality. Why do you have to
>> >immediately
>> >find a SO? Isn't it just nice to be friends with a bunch of girls
>> >sometimes
>> >instead? It can be fun. :)
>> >
>> >Ariana
>
>"Instead"? You say that as though having a relationship is a normal state
>and not having a relationship is taking a break. Girls that I consider my
>peers do seem to always have a relationship readily available, either in
>one or as an offered option. Guys that I consider my peers make friends
>easily enough, but relationships are scarce and, in sad instances, fought
>over.
>
>Friends who are girls are fine. But they ain't girlfriends. You can be
>surrounded by friends day and night and still go to sleep lonely and
>empty.
>
>
>Eric
Amen, Eric!
-DCE
Dale Channing Eddy
shoc...@tarnover.mv.com
shoc...@tarnover.mv.com
>>support and vice versa. There's nothing wrong with that. He doesn't
>>expect anything
>>more either. The wierd thing is that about 4 months ago, he asked me
>>if we wanted to be a couple. I was slightly shocked, and I asked him
>>why
>>he would ask me that.
>
>
> This women DOESN"T get it...!
>
<Thom's stuff deleted though I basically agree>
Uh-oh, Ariana, I see some danger signals. Looks like you may be guilty of
misreading your friend's intentions. I've seen this mistake made again and
again by both sexes. I've experienced it, too. Sounds like your friend tried
to make it sound like he wasn't serious about asking you after you LJBF'd
him. I've done it in the past, too. Better look again, you may be missing
someone wonderful.
Allegra Boverman
In <57s3h7$9...@leasion.demon.co.uk> ma...@leasion.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans) writes:
>Don Cameron (donca...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>:
>:
>: It isn't a pretty game, but it is the only one in town.
>And what many women simply don't get is that it is a game only women
>can change the rules of.
that may be true ... but i would like to say this:
i think it is possible to undertke an experience/relationship/whatever you
like to call it with NO EXPECTATIONS at all ... jsut see where things
naturally lead ... and don't worry about it. If something was meant to
happen, it'll happen. if not, not. THere is no one to blame for it, and
there are no wrong or right answers in this case.
you went with the flow.
thatg is not to say you're being totally passive.
just not expecting too much ... or too little.
and always you'll be pleasantly surprised.
that is my experience.
--
Allegra Boverman ab0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu all...@cif.rochester.edu
all...@jobboard.com all...@clarityconnect.com
http://roundtable.cif.rochester.edu/users/allegra/
"Art is what you can get away with." - Andy Warhol
*pickle*
In article <329C57...@ica.net>
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> opined:
> thom95 wrote:
>> moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
>> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
>> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>> learn by it.....regards....Thom
> Bitter are we?
no he's just a gutless fuck that can't put down his dick long enough
to think his way off the couch.
pickle
"assimilate THIS" ST:FC
*pickle*
In article <329DF...@ica.net>
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> opined:
> Okay, maybe I hang around with abnormal people, but most of my female
> friends are
> fairly introverted and quite intelligent. About half of them have bf's
> and about
> half of them don't. Last night, I was chatting with 2 of them that
> don't have bf's. One of them has been described to me (by my guy
> friends) as the perfect
> SO except that she's 6' tall and weighs proportional to that. She's
> intelligent,
> sweet, athletic and everything. She has many male friends and
> acquaintances, but
> nothing more. The other one is quite attractive (and guys have told me
> so) but
> she's so extremely introverted and can't seem to overcome it. They
> don't have it made. So you mean it gets worse?
yeah, they could meet steve chaney in person.
> Anyway, just to clarify, I'm not a geek even though I'm interested in
> computers. I have a reputation to maintain here. :) Besides, I digress.
ain't nothing wrong with bein a geek. hell, we have our own 800
number now, where have you been?
:-D
> So I'm going to try to be quiet now, because we can argue and beat
> this to death and still not get anywhere. :)
the only thing he's beating to death is about 3 inches long and
don't see much daylight
Bill Mattocks
Thom,
I didn't get the opportunity to read the original of the message
you're responding to (it has fled from my news server), but I still
felt that I had to respond to your message, as I have a few problems
with it...
On 27 Nov 1996 08:58:45 GMT, thom...@ix.netcom.com (thom95 ) wrote:
>>You know, I seriously planned to give men up for at least nine months
>when
>>my lover left me, but it is really harder than it sounds. Men ask me
>>out for little things like coffee or a drink, and I realize that it
>>would be far more fun to hang out with them than be lonely and
>thinking of
>>my lost love, so I go. I tell them I'm not interested in getting
>>romantically involved, but my guy friends usually eventually make a
>pass,
>>which can ruin the friendship if they feel rejected. What to do?
>>
>> -Marie
>
>
>Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
>risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
>to force men into LBJF....
I agree that there are some major communication problems to overcome
in dealings between men and women. I know that men and women look at
the same (romantic) situations differently. But, I think that
understanding is the key, not automatically jumping into a defensive
and bitter mode of response.
Yes, it's true that men get hit with the big LJBF quite often, and it
hurts, and many women don't seem to understand how it makes us feel.
On the other hand, when I want to have a woman as a (genuine) friend,
I don't often feel that I have to tread lightly to avoid having her
decide that she should make a play for me romantically. Women DO have
to be on the defensive when making friends with men, because the
message often becomes unclear or is misunderstood by the men that they
are befriending. As a man, I know how easy it is to get the "wrong
message," or to read something into a situation that was not there.
I have a good friend who I've known for a number of years. We have a
lot in common, and we laugh and joke with each other all the time, and
just generally hang out. But, a year or so ago, she invited me to her
house for dinner, which she had cooked herself. Now, where I'm from,
that usually means that a woman is interested, and I *thought* at the
time that I had detected other, very subtle, hints that she might be
interested in more than just a friendship with me. So, I brought wine
and flowers, and we proceded to have one hell of a fight, because she
immediately knew what I was up to, and she was mad as hell.
Who was to blame here? Was it me, for getting my signals crossed?
Was it her, for sending me signals that most men might interpret as a
"green light?" I don't blame either of us. It was a simple lack of
communication. Yes, it hurt. Yes, I brooded over it for awhile, and
we avoided speaking to each other. But, in the end, the friendship
has endured, and we each make the extra effort to understand what we
mean to say and the effects it might have. She really had no idea
that she was "giving me signals," and I had no idea that she meant
otherwise.
>moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
>and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
>are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
I've really got a problem with this statement. "OVERCOME female
resistance?" Brother, that's a serious problem in my book. I'd
rather be alone (and I hate being alone), than to try to seduce a
woman who is obviously getting over a major breakup, playing on her
hurts and insecurities, and, IMHO, using her for my own selfish needs.
What's wrong with being a friend to a woman? What's wrong with being
a perfect gentleman, unless and until she decides that she is ready to
resume dating?
Now, without the lady who originally posted this article to respond to
this, it is hard to criticize her, but I would say in general that she
should have made it clear to her male friends that she was NOT going
to be willing to accept advances at this time. And the men should
honor this request, not try to find some way to get around it.
> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>learn by it.....regards....Thom
I did, (at least, what you had quoted from her) and I fail to see how
she did anything wrong.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Don Cameron
ma...@leasion.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans) wrote:
>Don Cameron (donca...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>:
>: All I want to know is why the frost queens on here assume that if you are
>: looking for sex you DON'T want a relationship.
>:
>: Yo! Judi! You want a boyfriend you never have sex with? What??? The answer is
>: "Of course not!"???
>:
>: Well then doesn't it make sense that if a man wants a relationship with a woman
>: that INCLUDES sex he had better not approach it like he wants platonic???
>:
>: Did I say that he should tell her he is ONLY interested in sex??? NO!!!
>:
>: But he should make it clear that sex is part of what he is looking for!
>
>Herein apparently lies the problem, all too many women assume that
>if a guy want's sex that's all he wants. Communication is a two part
>process, someone can say something as clearly as the like, but if the
>problems on the "receiving" side then that will make little or no difference.
>
>:
>: Fourty fucking years of women demanding we express our feelings, and we are
>
>Demanding that, but at the same time being unable to accept it actually
>happening.
>
Ain't that the truth. First they tell us to open up and be honest with them,
then when we do, they telll us _we_ need to change.
Don Cameron
fer...@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:
Well, John if you are so very happy with it, let's make a deal:
You be the nice, sensative guy that they are friends with, and the rest of
us SS people be the guys they heve sex/get involved with.
Fair enough?
Don Cameron
sun...@cyberramp.net (*pickle*) wrote:
>In article <329C57...@ica.net>
>Ariana <ari...@ica.net> opined:
>
>> thom95 wrote:
>
>>> moral to MEN ..learn how to OVERCOME female retisence by Seduction
>>> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
>>> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
>>> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
>>> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>
>>> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
>>> learn by it.....regards....Thom
>
>> Bitter are we?
>
>no he's just a gutless fuck that can't put down his dick long enough
>to think his way off the couch.
Where is that nurturing now?
Bill Mattocks
Thierry,
On Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:19:34 +0100, Thierry Sengstag
<thierry....@psi.ch> wrote:
>Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
>for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
>discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
>possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
>or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
>way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
>that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
>I have to say...)
How about 3) She takes you at your word, and you, being an honest and
decent man, proceed to have a long, loving, and happy relationship
with her?
But I guess that never happens, right?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill Mattocks
Don,
On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 01:20:26 GMT, donca...@earthlink.net (Don
Cameron) wrote:
>Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
>"sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
I don't know if my reply to you makes me a "sensitive guy" or not.
And I don't think that being a sensitive guy is a bad thing. Believe
me, I'm not some tree-hugging, tie-dyeing, born-again meadow muffin,
either. I have read "Iron John" and "Fire in the Belly," and I
identify somewhat with the so-called "Men's Movement." I know that
Jeffrie's techniques work. The problem is, they are not designed to
help a lonely man find peace, companionship, and love. They are
designed to get a man laid, period. And I am not saying that there is
something wrong with that, in and of itself. Being self-confident,
knowing how to approach a woman, these are good things. But using
those techniques to overcome a woman's resistance, to "trick" her into
sleeping with you so that you can add another notch to your bedpost
and move on, is, in my opinion, a bad thing.
And yes, I'm a lonely guy. And at the moment, I am dateless. But I
am not willing to trade my self-respect and my manhood for a quickie.
It's just not worth it to me.
>But, TRY Jefferies techniqiues. I have been trying to be nice for a long time,
>while "confident" men scored with all the desirable women. Now I have adopted
>the Jefferies techniques, and they WORK!!!
See above.
>Listen a lot of people on here are going to whine, but what have you got to
>lose? At worst, you will do as poorly as you have been doing. And, if it works,
>you never have to feel like rejection-city again.
And you, too, can use and abuse women, and give them more reason to
hate all men when you dump them and move on to the "Next Big Thing."
>It isn't a pretty game, but it is the only one in town.
I don't agree. Mutual respect and understanding are a better game,
and one that produces longer-lasting results. It's just that not many
are patient enough to play, or they are not intelligent enough to
understand the rules.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Ariana
Eric Chen wrote:
>
> On 30 Nov 1996, thom95 wrote:
> > A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in the
> > cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the horns...
>
> Yep.
Okay. I understand that guys have to do something to get into a
relationship. And so you guys are bitter that you can't just sit and
wait for a relationship to just come along.
First of all, I'd like to point out that that is not always the case for
guys and it's sometimes the case for girls.
Secondly, so...as I've asked before, "what do you want us to do about
it?"
Maybe if you could provide some suggestions (like how to get rid of this
LJBFs problem) then we could do something about it. Right now, I'm just
getting the message that we just shouldn't be friends with guys unless
we are seriously interesting in them...and I think that's dumb.
Ariana
Ariana
thom95 wrote:
>
> This women DOESN"T get it...!
Okay, the more I read, the more I don't get this LJBF thing.
Is LJBF's just an excuse for not wanting to be in a romantic
relationship? Or is LJBFs just someone that you want to be friends
with.
I mean, if I wanted to go out with someone and they said, let's just
be friends, I'd probably be disappointed. But if I didn't, and they
said that, I wouldn't have problems with that.
And I have been LJBFed quite a few times when a romantic venture didn't
work out. And afterwards, we did be friends -- fairly good ones in
fact.
Just because I was romantically interested in someone that didn't want
to have a relationship with me...what's wrong with being friends with
them later? The same characteristics that attracted me were still there
in the person's personality. And I didn't take it personally. It
wasn't great for my ego, but i realize that it's not something wrong
with me.
Anyways, sorry for sounding so naive.
I didn't even know about this whole LJBF's thing till I started reading
this newsgroup.
Ariana
Ariana
shoc...@tarnover.mv.com wrote:
> Uh-oh, Ariana, I see some danger signals. Looks like you may be guilty of
> misreading your friend's intentions. I've seen this mistake made again and
> again by both sexes. I've experienced it, too. Sounds like your friend tried
> to make it sound like he wasn't serious about asking you after you LJBF'd
> him. I've done it in the past, too. Better look again, you may be missing
> someone wonderful.
I have talked to him about it. He said he was only asking because he
thought that it was what I expected. I've known him for quite a while,
and he's been interested in quite a few people during that period. And
I would never classify him under that "nice guy" category although I
think
he's nice (after all, he's my friend). He has no problems flirting with
women and he's often told me that he wouldn't give up his work/interests
for any woman although sometimes he just feels like having a fling.
(normally in the summer...when school's out). I'm sorry...I have no
problems with him being my friend, but I'd have problems being in a
relationship in which I was second or third best...only there as a
physical presence...not as a real person.
He's most definately not the "dwelling" type and if he was disappointed,
he would have stopped talking to me. He's done that before with
others. Instead, we talk just as much as before and get along fine. He
likes having the emotional support that I give him and he likes to know
that if he ever feels like hanging out or have someone go somewhere with
him, I'd normally have fun doing so. However, I'd never commit to
someone that had no intention of commiting themselves to me. (notice I
don't necessarily think someone wanting to go out with you means that
they want to commit themselves to you)
After saying that, do you still think I'm misinterpreting this and that
I should get into that relationship?
Yours Truly,
Ariana :)
Bill Mattocks
Mark,
On 1 Dec 1996 14:13:37 GMT, ma...@leasion.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans)
wrote:
>Herein apparently lies the problem, all too many women assume that
>if a guy want's sex that's all he wants. Communication is a two part
>process, someone can say something as clearly as the like, but if the
>problems on the "receiving" side then that will make little or no >difference.
I will agree that many women hear what they want to hear, but this
applies just as often to men, too. It is a people problem, not a
woman problem.
For example: if I fail to express myself clearly enough to you, is
that YOUR problem? No, it is MY problem, because I have failed to
give you the message that I intended to. If I try to teach my cat to
"roll over," and it just stares at me, is that the cat's problem? No,
it is my problem, because I still have not achieved my goal, which was
to get the cat to roll over.
Since you clearly understand that women often misinterpret your
message, then the onus is on YOU to try harder to make yourself
understood. Ditto for women, I am not trying to be a man-basher here.
You are right, all of you are right, when you say that the problem is
in communication. But we can work on these problems, we can share our
insights and our understanding in a helpful and supportive way. I am
seeing WAY too much bitterness and "seduction techniques" here for my
liking.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Ariana
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Yeah Ariana, what about all those "nice" guys you pat on the head and tell
> "Let's Just Be Friends."
yeah..there's such a big list of them too.
Just all lining up...man, what's a girl going to do?
Ariana
ps. sarcasm really isn't becoming of me. Get a grip girl!
Ariana
Mark Evans wrote:
> :
> : Fourty fucking years of women demanding we express our feelings, and we are
>
> Demanding that, but at the same time being unable to accept it actually
> happening.
>
> : still supposed to act like our sex drive is dirty...
> :
> : Until women accept us for who we are, you can expect this war to continue.
> :
Hmmm. I feel reluctant to share this. Especially since I'll probably
be classified by it. I have never had sex before. Sue me, but I have
this romantic notion that I'd like to wait until I meet the guy that I'm
going to marry. I don't think your sex drive is dirty at all. I think
it's natural. However, I do have (obvious) problems going out with a
guy
who only wants to have sex with me. Namely because if I love him I'm
going to feel guilty not being able to give him what he wants in that
way (and no, I won't back down on this point, even though sometimes I'm
sorely tempted to) and I think he could get it from other women. This
is just me though...I know most other women aren't like this.
Looking at the statistics, I know I'm not the norm. I'm also sheltered
and naive in many respects. I still believe that I'll find the right
person out there for me sometime no matter how long it takes. Maybe my
point of view will be different later, and maybe my opinion is so wrong
that
I'll be passed by. Live and learn.
Ariana
Ariana
thom95 wrote:
>
> actually the more I both rely on want I'm trying to accomplish AND
> also realize what the person of the opposite sex is gravitating towards
> (not my FALSE images of what she should do)... there becomes a happy
> medium somewhere in the middle that both can feel satisfied..
good. I actually agree with that.
Balance is the key.
Ariana
Ariana
thom95 wrote:
> BINGO..!!! Guys ARE tired of LBJF......Girls NEVER Get IT....they
> want constantly all the support of a relationship without giving back
> ROMANCE to these guys... The problem wouldn't be so great IF it
Do you honestly believe that having the support of friends entitles
someone to have "romance"? I don't even think that they relate.
And most of the time, it's obvious if someone says they want to be
your friend, but they actually want more. I don't find that to be
"understanding" of women or entirely unselfish either. If a guy likes
a girl and wants to go out with her for sure, then let her know...don't
do this, well, i just want to be your friend thing. But if he really
isn't sure and wants to get to know her better as a friend first,
then fine.
> were evenly distributed.....IF GUys could find romance at every CORNER
> with little trouble then THEY too wouldn't be STARVED for ROMANCE
> .....but guess WHAt they get "Friendship" at every corner and thats
> always what they are looking for.. BOTH sexes suffer from this ,BUT it
> is the FEMALE who starts this whole scenario going by her often
> obsessing over past and future guys really not obtainable and
> CONCURRENT dismissal of good guys on "Her Level" Do to this silly
> selection process of women ..guys ARE entitled to DO whatever to get
> their needs met...REMEMBER the female only SAYS yes when she finds it
> enticing enough.... WOMEN aren't thinking of your NEEDS they are
> thinking of their OWN....
> A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in the
> cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the horns...
>
> ..Do Women GET THIS...?
>
Okay..so what? If we do get it, what do you want us to do about it?
Start going out with everyone that seems to want a friendship just
in case they want more? There are guys that I find attractive just
because they are so nice and there are guys that aren't nice that I
find attractive too. The fact of it is that I'm not attracted to
any guy that comes my way. In fact, I think it takes about 2
years for me to find someone that I'm attracted enough to that I want
to have a relationship with. So lay off. Some people might say "let's
still be friends" just to make things easier, even after a breakup.
But when I say it, I mean it. I know I need friends, but if it's such
a hassle to be friends with guys (since they are so bitter about it),
I have no problems with restricting my friends to be all female.
Granted that some guys that have tried to be my "friend" wanted more
than that, but on the whole, most of them just want a friend as well.
> This women DOESN"T get it...!
no. I guess I don't.
Ariana
Chris Berry
Ariana-
I agree with your stance. I've also elected to wait until marriage.
Being a 25 yo male that seems to odd to some people, and I've lost at
least one girlfriend because of it. You said you had been able to
maintain your stance to date but didn't mention how long that was and
I'm curious.
--
Chris Berry
"You can be what you want to be, but
you can't change the course of your destiny" - Big Pig
Ariana
Eric Chen wrote:
>
> On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Ariana wrote:
>
> > Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
> > At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
> >
>
> The same holds true for men.
>
> I admit that I don't understand women. All I can offer an SO is that I'll
> try.
>
> Eric
Well, I (obviously) don't understand the men on this newsgroup.
Or I understand partially, but not fully. I think what I was trying
to point out was that A.Boodoo was saying that women didn't seem
to want men that could understand them, I didn't think that was true.
I didn't believe that he understood women (perfectly) and I was
challenging the validity of his statement from his experiences.
Ariana
Ariana
John Fereira wrote:
>
> Maybe in your world. Maybe your definition of friendship isn't the
> same as mine but every occurance that I've had with someone that said
> LJBF has resulted in what I would consider a good friend.
>
I like the way you view life/relationships etc.
You did say you have a gf, didn't you? :)
I don't find that surprising at all.
Ariana
Don Cameron
ma...@leasion.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans) wrote:
>Don Cameron (donca...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>:
>: Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
>: "sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
>:
>: But, TRY Jefferies techniqiues. I have been trying to be nice for a long time,
>: while "confident" men scored with all the desirable women. Now I have adopted
>: the Jefferies techniques, and they WORK!!!
>:
>: Listen a lot of people on here are going to whine, but what have you got to
>: lose? At worst, you will do as poorly as you have been doing. And, if it works,
>: you never have to feel like rejection-city again.
>:
>: It isn't a pretty game, but it is the only one in town.
>
>And what many women simply don't get is that it is a game only women
>can change the rules of.
They don't want to. "The Rules" are in their favor.
Ariana
Thierry Sengstag wrote:
> You're right ! I should sometimes try to forget my ancient loves, either
> in computing or in my sentimental life... But don't you think that
> looking
> at the past is a way to prepare the future ? (OK, that's maybe the
> point where the "old european sensibility" fails...)
Wow. Interesting analogy...I didn't even think of it :).
Well, your fortran knowledge might help you learn c much easier
but then again, it might hinder your learning because you already
have some preconceived notions and habits :).
>
> Well, of course I wasn't ! (A man capable of that kind of behaviour
> would IMHO not be very interested in reading the newsgroups in which
> we write...) But at some time, it may happen that you're getting tired
yep. try alt.sex instead of alt.romance :).
Ariana
John Fereira
In article <32A337...@ica.net> ari...@ica.net writes:
>Thierry Sengstag wrote:
>
>> You're right ! I should sometimes try to forget my ancient loves, either
>> in computing or in my sentimental life... But don't you think that
>> looking
>> at the past is a way to prepare the future ? (OK, that's maybe the
>> point where the "old european sensibility" fails...)
>
>Wow. Interesting analogy...I didn't even think of it :).
>Well, your fortran knowledge might help you learn c much easier
>but then again, it might hinder your learning because you already
>have some preconceived notions and habits :).
Bad programming practices are bad programming practices. When I was
first introduced to Fortran it was at Hewlett Packard just prior to
the introduction of Fortran IV. Previous versions did not lead
well to structured programming. One of the first things I used it for
was to program an automated testing system to test power supply voltages.
As far as I know that program is still in use today. Eventually, I
got a chance to work with Fortran IV which actually allowed one to write
a reasonable program without the use of Goto statements and line numbers.
I learned how to program Fortran IV by porting a version of rogue that
was written for a VMS system using "old" Fortran.
Matt Kennel
Judi Moon (rnm...@mail.metronet.com) wrote:
: do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: >
: >
: >
: > Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex.
: wrongo!! that doesnt work either! the guys that tried that with me,
: well i told them in no uncertain terms that i wanted a relationship...a
: confidant, a companion, someone to care about me as a person, not as
: something they can have sex with. 99% of the time i never heard from em
: again.
You mean you told them "I want you to be and do everything for me, but
I have no desire to sleep with you"??
--
Matthew B. Kennel/m...@caffeine.engr.utk.edu/I do not speak for ORNL, DOE or UT
Oak Ridge National Laboratory/University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN USA/
Andrew Pavlin
do...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: Rule #1--Make it clear you want her for sex. (Sure, other things could be nice,
: but don't EVER let her think of you the same way she thinks of her own
: brother!)
Well, it doesn't have to _only_ be for sex. The latter part of your statement
is true (and the bane of the Nice Guys[tm]).
: >On the other hand, those men that can play the game really well, but are
: >_just_ playing, may leave a trail of broken hearts behind them; bad not
: >only for the women, but for the men those women encounter in the future
: >(at least, until the woman heals).
: Oh, so if we men fail to get what we want, it is our own damned fault, and
: if women get the same shit we get, it is the man's fault???
Heck, no. If a woman plays the same kind of dirty heart-breaking games, it's
her fault for doing so. On the other hand, the heart-breakee (regardless of
gender) is still responsible for taking care of themself, i.e. ensuring
that they are in a healthy relationship instead of a sick one. So both
parties are generally "at fault", if we really want to use such terms.
You don't happen to work for an insurance company, do you? This whole
concept of "fault" doesn't really belong here; it should only apply if
there was conscious and explicit intent to do harm (i.e., purposely
jerk someone's heart around). Human mistakes of incompatability aren't
really applicable to "fault".
Stewart Vernon
On Mon, 02 Dec 1996 13:18:41 -0500, Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>Hmmm. I feel reluctant to share this. Especially since I'll probably
>be classified by it. I have never had sex before. Sue me, but I have
>this romantic notion that I'd like to wait until I meet the guy that I'm
>going to marry. I don't think your sex drive is dirty at all. I think
>it's natural. However, I do have (obvious) problems going out with a
>guy
>who only wants to have sex with me. Namely because if I love him I'm
>going to feel guilty not being able to give him what he wants in that
>way (and no, I won't back down on this point, even though sometimes I'm
>sorely tempted to) and I think he could get it from other women. This
>is just me though...I know most other women aren't like this.
>
>Ariana
You have gained a new measure of respect from me. Now I know you
weren't waiting and hinging your whole life on that... But anyway, I
am a 26 year-old who has been living with the same decision. Not that
the opportunity for sex has been (figuratively) dropped into my lap,
but I'm sure that if that was all I wanted I could have it. Sure I
want it, but not 'til the person and time is right.
Of course, the older I get, the more likely it is that my partner is
going to have experience with a man. I wouldn't think less of her for
this, but it would be nice to have a woman who feels as I do. I don't
think its going to happen though..
-Stewart
Thierry Sengstag
Ariana wrote:
>
> Thierry Sengstag wrote:
>
> > Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
> > for sex, in which case she most probably will flee, or 2) you accept to
> > discuss in a more cerebro-emotional way with her, in which case two
> > possibilities may occur : a) she take you as a friend and nothing more
> > or b) she suspects you to want sex only, event if its in a more subtle
> > way and she flees as well... (I tried solution 1 after having realised
> > that solution 2 was not very efficient... Not been very successfull,
> > I have to say...)
> > a better one to suggest...)
> >
> Boy am I in a laughing mood today. But I better not laugh just incase
> I make a fool of myself. You obviously shouldn't be doing FORTRAN
> programs.
> Jeez! What are you thinking? C is the way to go.
You're right ! I should sometimes try to forget my ancient loves, either
in computing or in my sentimental life... But don't you think that
looking
at the past is a way to prepare the future ? (OK, that's maybe the
point where the "old european sensibility" fails...)
> oh yeah, another thing. When you tried solution 1, were you being
> honest?
> If yes, I'm going to have to reanalyze my whole opinion of men in
> general.
Wow ! I didn't thougth my opinion could have so much impact ! (I think
I'm not vanitous, but it may happen if you continue...)
Well, of course I wasn't ! (A man capable of that kind of behaviour
would IMHO not be very interested in reading the newsgroups in which
we write...) But at some time, it may happen that you're getting tired
of "investing" a lot of creativity and sentiments for girls for
which you know they will in the end consider you as beeing "just
a friend". That's why I tried more aggressive methods...
This is a kind of "optimixation problem" for which I didn't yet found
the solution to... ;-)
Do girls really not realize the challenge they are for men ?
Thierry
Hitlary Hui
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Ariana <ari...@ica.net> wrote:
>
> >Mark Evans wrote:
> >
> >> :
> >> : Fourty fucking years of women demanding we express our feelings, and we are
> >>
> >> Demanding that, but at the same time being unable to accept it actually
> >> happening.
> >>
> >> : still supposed to act like our sex drive is dirty...
> >> :
> >> : Until women accept us for who we are, you can expect this war to continue.
> >> :
> >
> >be classified by it. I have never had sex before. Sue me, but I have
> >this romantic notion that I'd like to wait until I meet the guy that I'm
> >going to marry. I don't think your sex drive is dirty at all. I think
> >it's natural. However, I do have (obvious) problems going out with a
> >guy
> >who only wants to have sex with me. Namely because if I love him I'm
> >going to feel guilty not being able to give him what he wants in that
> >way (and no, I won't back down on this point, even though sometimes I'm
> >sorely tempted to) and I think he could get it from other women. This
> >is just me though...I know most other women aren't like this.
> >
> >and naive in many respects. I still believe that I'll find the right
> >person out there for me sometime no matter how long it takes. Maybe my
> >point of view will be different later, and maybe my opinion is so wrong
> >that
> >I'll be passed by. Live and learn.
> >
> >Ariana
>
> all reason are equally valid. However, most of us here are discussing sexual
> relationships. Sexual and non-sexual relationships are two different critters.
This is true. You have a different level of intimacy in a sexual
relationship. You are more that just friends.
Brenda
thom95 wrote:
>
> In
> <Pine.A41.3.95b.961120...@homer32.u.washington.edu>
> "M. Gryphon" <mgry...@u.washington.edu> writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >You know, I seriously planned to give men up for at least nine months
> when
> >my lover left me, but it is really harder than it sounds. Men ask me
> >out for little things like coffee or a drink, and I realize that it
> >would be far more fun to hang out with them than be lonely and
> thinking of
> >my lost love, so I go. I tell them I'm not interested in getting
> >romantically involved, but my guy friends usually eventually make a
> pass,
> >which can ruin the friendship if they feel rejected. What to do?
> >
> > -Marie
>
> Notice the BIG differences between men and women : MEN pursuing and
> risking encountering LBJF ......women doing little and trying often
> to force men into LBJF....
>
> and Charm (i.e only the skillful men get choices ..many other
> unfortunatley do to "female picking obstacles" *go without*.....there
> are Barriers that women usually *unconsiously* CONSTANTLY and
> REPEATEDLY put up that screens out Nice Guys...
>
>
>
> read the above by Marie again...NOTICE how women think.... and
> learn by it.....regards....Thom
> >
> >
sacred code and now figured us all out!!! Don't you remember at the last
Secret Women's Society Seminar where we all flew out to a remote retreat
in the Amazon (during the superbowl) to further hone our skills at
psychic-ly manipulating men into getting free stuff and attention????
You know if they find out that we only want most of them as friends it
isn't because of a lack of enough chemistry or interest, but that we
just like to hurt them cuz it's fun!
Oh boy, are you gonna get it!
Tkil
>>>>> "Ariana" == Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
Ariana> [...] I have never had sex before.
congratulations on your principled self-control. i have a mostly-
serious question for you: what, precisely, do you consider "sex"?
this question comes to mind because i, too, am a virgin; various
girlfriends have pointed out, however, that i should probably qualify
that with adverbs like "technically" or "barely". ;->
so, what is "sex"? vaginal penetration with the penis? oral sex?
mutual masturbation? dry humping? heavy petting? keeping the undies
on? french kissing? a certain number of Purity Test (tm) points
lost together?
it becomes a difficult line to draw.
and the doozy, at least for me: physical intimacy is just as precious
and vital and scary as emotional or intellectual intimacy. so why is
there so much regulation / anxiety / dissonance between physical
intimacy and emotional intimacy? examples range from a church or
society decreeing that physical intimacy should occur only after an
irrevocable emotional commitment, to one-night stands. i certainly
don't have an answer yet.
Ariana> I still believe that I'll find the right person out there for
Ariana> me sometime no matter how long it takes.
your odds are now one in 3 billion. :-/
good luck,
t.
--
Tkil <tk...@scrye.com> emacs evangelist, hopelessly hopeless romantic
"So amplify this little one | She hears as much as she can see
She's a volume freak | And what she sees, she can't believe."
-- Catherine Wheel, _Happy Days_, "Judy Staring At The Sun"
Ariana
Chris Berry wrote:
>
> Ariana-
>
> I agree with your stance. I've also elected to wait until marriage.
> Being a 25 yo male that seems to odd to some people, and I've lost at
> least one girlfriend because of it. You said you had been able to
> maintain your stance to date but didn't mention how long that was and
> I'm curious.
Sorry, I'm confused about what you mean that I maintained my stance
to date. And as to how long that was..how long my relationships have
lasted?
Sorry, just need some clarification.
Ariana
Shawn Pickrell
Quadrille (nepe...@cyberstate.infi.net) etched onto the
cyber-tablets of alt.romance:
: On a couple of even rarer occasions, I've grown very close to a friend
: and the timing has been right -- hormones have reached a certain level,
: there's a critical mass of mutual need, we're both "available" -- and
: then a frienship can turn into what most people define as a "romantic"
: relationship.
Ah, I see. But it relies on nothing rational. That is the problem with
most of these "NiceGuys": they think they ought to have a girlfriend, so
if they don't, life is unfair and women horrible.
And if this world were a just and rational place, they would. If attraction
were rational, it would happen.
But it's not. And so jerks get the girl, nice guys go without, jerks go it
alone and nice guys get the girl. I've seen all four.
(NOTE: I am not using this as an excuse to pursue whatever risky/dangerous
relationships ... although attraction is NOT rational, what you do about it
IS.)
: In other words, I "select" friends, not men. The romantic relationship
: is just an extra dimension added on.
: Since it has been postulated above that all women select partners in the
: same manner, I suppose I'll have to assume that all other women act as I
: do . . . perhaps one of the experts here could clarify for me what's
: wrong with this process, and what I should be doing to correct it? What
: is it I'm doing that's so dishonest?
You aren't going for the "NiceGuys" (tm). Other than that, I don't see a
problem.
Then again, you aren't giving guys advice you aren't prepared to follow
through on (i.e. be caring, a good listener, understanding, etc., but then
reject guys who are precisely that because "I don't want to ruin our
friendship" or similar stuff. That does get to guys after a while.)
: Thanks ever so much.
: -- Quadrille
: P.S. -- For the record, my partners would all probably fall safely into
: the "nice guy" category. Also, we've remained close friends (why would
: that change?) even after ending the romantic aspect of the relationship
: . . . clearly, there's something else here that I'm doing terribly
: wrong.
Oh definitely. I've always wondered how "too wuv" can turn into bitter
hate so easily ... with Stormy (now my ex & with another), I do not want
to drop her like a hot potato ... why lose a potential friend just b/c I
can't kiss & cuddle her anytime I (or she) wants to? :^)
... Sir Shawn, Knight of the Internet. (Romans 10:9-13)
IRL: Shawn Pickrell, Randolph-Macon College '97
mailto:spic...@newt.rmc.edu <=> http://MLND-5-8.rmc.edu/~spickrel
J. Edward Bernard
On Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:19:34 +0100, Thierry Sengstag
>>Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
>>for sex, in which case she most probably will flee,
...lots of snipping...
I used to know a guy who's line was "Wanna fuck ?". He always
delivered the line after an appropriate amount of time after meeting
the girl (according to what he felt was correct). The line was always
delivered during the immediate 8 hours after meeting the lady. I.E.
at the party, at the bar, on the beach, ... you get the picture. His
success ratio (the girl saying "yes, let's get it on") was somewhere
along the lines of 40 - 45%. Yes, he did get his face slapped a few
times. Yes, he did get yelled at in *very* public surroundings. In
the final analysis though, his hitting average was far superior to
anyone playing in the majors today. Of course like baseball, we're
talking about the speed and quality of the pitch. We're talking about
home field advantage in some cases, and enjoying a winning streak when
he wasn't playing at home. We're talking about atmospheric
conditions. Frankly, I don't think he would have done as well at the
local church at 11:30 on a Sunday morning.
Maybe what I'm getting into here, is that he chose the time and place
that would give him the best chance of success when trying to achieve
the goals he had set for himself. I don't believe he would have done
as well playing football. I.E. Walking into a community dance on a
Saturday afternoon and asking a woman: "Hi, my name's Denis. Can we
talk ?"
Just a thought for the nanosecond
Eddie
(BTW. His name isn't Denis, so I don't want hear any flack :-) )
Don Cameron
Don Cameron
bmat...@comp-sol.com (Bill Mattocks) wrote:
>Don,
>
>On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 01:20:26 GMT, donca...@earthlink.net (Don
>Cameron) wrote:
>>Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
>>"sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
>
>I don't know if my reply to you makes me a "sensitive guy" or not.
>And I don't think that being a sensitive guy is a bad thing. Believe
>me, I'm not some tree-hugging, tie-dyeing, born-again meadow muffin,
>either. I have read "Iron John" and "Fire in the Belly,"
I stopped reading this after 15 pages. Did it get nay better?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and I
>identify somewhat with the so-called "Men's Movement." I know that
>Jeffrie's techniques work.
Which, is what we want.
> The problem is, they are not designed to
>help a lonely man find peace, companionship, and love. They are
>designed to get a man laid, period. And I am not saying that there is
>something wrong with that, in and of itself. Being self-confident,
>knowing how to approach a woman, these are good things. But using
>those techniques to overcome a woman's resistance, to "trick" her into
>sleeping with you so that you can add another notch to your bedpost
>and move on, is, in my opinion, a bad thing.
If that is all the man wants, then it has delivered exactly what was desired.
The problem with your perception is you fail to see that once she is laying in
your bed, having satiated both your sex drives, you don't have to kick her out!
Talk to her. Kep on acting like a man though. Maybe it will work, maybe it
won't.
But no matter what, you experience is better than being told LJBF as she walks
off with someone who has done SS on her.
>
>And yes, I'm a lonely guy. And at the moment, I am dateless. But I
>am not willing to trade my self-respect and my manhood for a quickie.
>It's just not worth it to me.
Then don't treat it as a quickie. When you are through, and pulling on your
pants to go home, let her know it was great, you'll _probably_ call her, and
move on. Call her a few days later, keeping the patter up and SS. This makes
her respect your confidence as a MAN. Let the chemistry do its job over time.
>
>>Listen a lot of people on here are going to whine, but what have you got to
>>lose? At worst, you will do as poorly as you have been doing. And, if it works,
>>you never have to feel like rejection-city again.
>
>And you, too, can use and abuse women, and give them more reason to
>hate all men when you dump them and move on to the "Next Big Thing."
I don't understand. Barring outright lies, how is this "abusing" women?
Don Cameron
j...@cae.ca (J. Edward Bernard) wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:19:34 +0100, Thierry Sengstag
>><thierry....@psi.ch> wrote:
>>>Well... My experience is that 1) either you tell the lady you want her
>>>for sex, in which case she most probably will flee,
>
>...lots of snipping...
>
>I used to know a guy who's line was "Wanna fuck ?". He always
>delivered the line after an appropriate amount of time after meeting
>the girl (according to what he felt was correct). The line was always
>delivered during the immediate 8 hours after meeting the lady. I.E.
>at the party, at the bar, on the beach, ... you get the picture. His
>success ratio (the girl saying "yes, let's get it on") was somewhere
>along the lines of 40 - 45%. Yes, he did get his face slapped a few
>times. Yes, he did get yelled at in *very* public surroundings. In
>the final analysis though, his hitting average was far superior to
>anyone playing in the majors today. Of course like baseball, we're
>talking about the speed and quality of the pitch.
That one takes BALLS!
But, it does work!
shoc...@tarnover.mv.com
In <32A315...@ica.net>, Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
>shoc...@tarnover.mv.com wrote:
>
>> Uh-oh, Ariana, I see some danger signals. Looks like you may be guilty of
>> misreading your friend's intentions. I've seen this mistake made again and
>> again by both sexes. I've experienced it, too. Sounds like your friend tried
>> to make it sound like he wasn't serious about asking you after you LJBF'd
>> him. I've done it in the past, too. Better look again, you may be missing
>> someone wonderful.
>
>
>I have talked to him about it. He said he was only asking because he
>thought that it was what I expected. I've known him for quite a while,
>and he's been interested in quite a few people during that period. And
>I would never classify him under that "nice guy" category although I
>think
>He's most definately not the "dwelling" type and if he was disappointed,
>he would have stopped talking to me. He's done that before with
>others. Instead, we talk just as much as before and get along fine. He
>likes having the emotional support that I give him and he likes to know
>that if he ever feels like hanging out or have someone go somewhere with
>him, I'd normally have fun doing so. However, I'd never commit to
>someone that had no intention of commiting themselves to me. (notice I
>don't necessarily think someone wanting to go out with you means that
>they want to commit themselves to you)
>
>After saying that, do you still think I'm misinterpreting this and that
>I should get into that relationship?
>
>Yours Truly,
>
>Ariana :)
Okay, Ariana! Like I said, I accidently deleted your original post and had to
depend on someone else's response and "try" to remember everything you said.
Obviously I missed the important part that changed the entire tone of your
post.
Apologies!
-DCE
Brenda Ehmka
> >
> >> This is true, women apparently don't want someone who understands them
> >> (or so I've been told...). But WHY?
> >>
> >> Surely having a man who understands women is like a dream come true - but
> >> I had this debate with someone before, and she couldn't explain the
> >> reason for this.
> >>
> >> The question is, why are understanding and sensitive men not taken
> >> seriously. When we try and attract women, it is by being sensitive and
> >> understanding, and women see that as friendship, and only that...
>
> Because you are not acting like a "man". Women KNOW we want them for sex.
> They lament it. They gripe about it. Bt unless you approach her with
> passion in mind, you might as well be her gay hairdresser.
>
> >>
> >> A.Boodoo
> >
> >Of course women want a man that can understand them. Who wouldn't?
> >At least I know I would. Do you truly understand though?
> >
>
> Yeah Ariana, what about all those "nice" guys you pat on the head and tell
> "Let's Just Be Friends."
I guess I have never had to pat anyone on the head for I try not to
waver in my self-expression. I have always found that my lovers *were*
my friends. Perhaps there is some deeper issue going on here. Is it
possible that both sexes just may want to keep the opposite sex hanging
around for totally ego reasons? When a relationship was over or for
that matter before one even started I KNEW if it was going to go
anywhere. In the event that it wasn't---- why would you want to remain
friends with them? I honestly believe I would have difficulty in being
around them. And if they informed me I had been reduced from something
more to LJBF status, I would certainly not hang around and mope for
them... Big world out there... Very big. Too big to waste precious
time. I actually don't see too much of a difference here. We all want
the same things. Our methods may differ, but our motives are similar.
Not many men are going to walk up to you and ask if you want to LJBF.
Come on.. to think anything different is silly. Men are interested in
sex and that is okay. For me I was looking for a balanced mixture.
Spiritual/Body/Mental/Physical. Why would I be interested in a man who
was not sexually interested in me? So, my first question would be :)
Is he interested in me sexually. Well further down the road I cannot
suddenly hold against him the very thing that attracted me in the first
place-- now can I?
I just don't see that much of a difference.
--
Brenda <'-'>
Official Lady DreamCatcher of the RFA
** Come check out our web page. **
http://www.frontiernet.net/~ehmka/
Brenda Ehmka
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> bmat...@comp-sol.com (Bill Mattocks) wrote:
>
> >Don,
> >
> >On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 01:20:26 GMT, donca...@earthlink.net (Don
> >Cameron) wrote:
> >>Listen, the women out there are going to scream how it doesn't work. The
> >>"sensitive" guys on here, who remain dateless, will state that it doesn't work.
> >
> >
> >And you, too, can use and abuse women, and give them more reason to
> >hate all men when you dump them and move on to the "Next Big Thing."
>
> I don't understand. Barring outright lies, how is this "abusing" women?
This last sentence pretty much sums it up right? Would you like to be
bedded and __perhaps__ get a call after the fact. If you just want sex
then perhaps a prositute would be a better option. No strings, no need
for games, no pressure to call ever again, etc. etc. etc.
Let me ask this? How many of you *guys* out there would wait for 4 or 5
months to score? No games! Reciprcated desire not a factor. IT IS
THERE. Would you wait the time or would you move on to greener pastures?
Curiosity sake.
*pickle*
In article <32A31D...@ica.net>
Ariana <ari...@ica.net> opined:
> Hmmm. I feel reluctant to share this. Especially since I'll probably
> be classified by it. I have never had sex before.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!
<sorry, that's just rather shocking>
> Sue me, but I have
> this romantic notion that I'd like to wait until I meet the guy that I'm
> going to marry.
well, i'll be goddamned. someone who has a belief and actually practises
it. i'm impressed. no, really. no sarcasm here. (which is very unusual
for me)
> way (and no, I won't back down on this point, even though sometimes I'm
> sorely tempted to)
well, i wouldn't if _i'd_ come this far already. and assuming i
wanted marriage.
not to try and talk you out of it either, but i'd examine that whole
choice with a fine-toothed pickle fork...
> and I think he could get it from other women. This
> is just me though...I know most other women aren't like this.
so, there is a "he".
i noticed you said you would wait until you meet the guy you are going
to marry and not until you marry him. how will you know for sure
that the marriage will happen before it happens?
> Looking at the statistics, I know I'm not the norm. I'm also sheltered
> and naive in many respects. I still believe that I'll find the right
> person out there for me sometime no matter how long it takes.
do you believe there is only one?
> Maybe my
> point of view will be different later, and maybe my opinion is so wrong
> that I'll be passed by.
i seriously doubt that. one thing for sure is that you have chutspah.
> Live and learn.
it's the fun way to do it.
pickle
"assimilate THIS" ST:FC
Eric Chen
On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Ariana wrote:
> Eric Chen wrote:
> >
> > On 30 Nov 1996, thom95 wrote:
>
> > > A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in the
> > > cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the horns...
> >
> > Yep.
>
> Okay. I understand that guys have to do something to get into a
> relationship. And so you guys are bitter that you can't just sit and
> wait for a relationship to just come along.
We bemoan that women have a choice (a word that Thom often highlights)
that men don't. For the most part, women can live their lives and expect
relationship offers to come along. They may not be the offers that she
wants, but they are offers nonetheless. They can take the bull by the
horns if they so choose, but they don't have to. Men, on the other hand,
have to make the effort to procure relationships.
>
> First of all, I'd like to point out that that is not always the case for
> guys and it's sometimes the case for girls.
Yep.
> Secondly, so...as I've asked before, "what do you want us to do about
> it?"
I dunno. We have to work on this one.
> Maybe if you could provide some suggestions (like how to get rid of this
> LJBFs problem) then we could do something about it. Right now, I'm just
> getting the message that we just shouldn't be friends with guys unless
> we are seriously interesting in them...and I think that's dumb.
That's not it. Nothing wrong with friendship, as long as both sides
sincerely want to be friends.
What we're talking about is rejection, denial, loneliness, and failure,
which results in frustration, and then bitterness. We're talking about
guys that want a relationship. They're nice guys and keep racking up
friendships while watching the women they desire go to men that aren't as
nice as they are. These women turn to them for functions that nice guys
believe are integral components of a romantic relationship, yet there is
no romantic relationship, only friendship which has frustrating
limitations. To nice guys, a romantic relationship is supposed to
naturally evolve from deep friendship. It's confusing to them that they've
evolved to romantic feelings but the women they desire continually do not,
while at the same time the women are bestowing their romance on guys who
aren't nice guys. Nice guys believe that they are doing it right while the
other guys are doing it wrong. The women in the nice guys' lives tell them
that they are doing it right, too. However, the nice guy eventually
wonders why, if he is so right, the women he desires keep going to men who
are supposedly doing it wrong. Bitterness and pragmaticism set in. Thom
results.
The problem is that the nice guy wants a romantic relationship but the
women he desires keep responding with friendship. He is denied what he
wants and he remains without a relationship.
Eric
thom95
In <32a23ffb...@news.alpha.net> bmat...@comp-sol.com (Bill
Mattocks) writes:
>
>Eric,
>
>On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:10:19 -0500, Eric Chen <dc...@interport.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Right. What Thom advocates is not treating women badly, but playing
the
>>game as the means to establishing a relationship.
>
>I didn't read it that way, Eric. I understood Thom to say that a man
>should overcome a woman's resistance and seduce her. That does not
>sound like establishing a relationship to me, that sounds like using a
>woman for sex.
>
>Bill Mattocks
Well since I was the original poster I can back it up...I'm saying
that DUE to the nature of female selection processes (and I should say
some enlightened females that I have discussed this with candidly and
who are aware of their actions have helped me in understanding these
complexiites) that YES many times part of the ROMANTIC selection
process in their minds is due to chemistry and the feeling that they
are being overcome by the "charms" of a man.
(note I didn't say physically I said emotionally overcome by the
presence of another)
..Being friends I was told DID NOT anywhere come close to inducing
that state and in many cases (for them) was a deterrent. As Bill
Mattocks himself atests too in one of his prior posts on how his
friendship not only didn't get him anywhere with this lady he spent
lots of time on BUT angered the WOMAN when he tried to change the
"nature" of the relationship to a "romantic level".
If you notice "woman" are often not only willing participants in
romance and seduction when "playing the game right" but *enjoying*
participants.
When you try the "friends " approach like you said you not only didn't
get anywhere with her but you ANGERED the woman (i.e. she was *upset*
with your overtures).
You were a nice guy but you lost two times.
Hope this clarifies what Eric was trying to point out..
Regards,
Thom
thom95
In <32A30A...@ica.net> Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
>
>thom95 wrote:
>
all the support of a relationship without giving back
>> ROMANCE to these guys... The problem wouldn't be so great IF it
>
>Do you honestly believe that having the support of friends entitles
>someone to have "romance"?
No I don't and therefore since this is true I no longer have the
mistaken notion that having frienships with a woman is useful where
romance is concerned ...
> I don't even think that they relate.
Yep over the years I've come to understand this and now I benefit my
self through this.. still everyday there are new men who have to go
through this several times before they understand what goes on (see to
a man a "good friendship" and a "good relationship" with the opposites
sex feels to be a a somewhat valid point to start a relationship...)
>And most of the time, it's obvious if someone says they want to be
>your friend, but they actually want more.
I agree with this..some girls are upfront ..other girls play it for ego
purpose or just to have a guyfriend around (when the "main interest"
they is emotionally unavailable).
>> were evenly distributed.....IF GUys could find romance at every
CORNER
>> with little trouble then they too wouldn't be STARVED for romance
>> .....but guess what? they get "Friendship" at every corner and thats
>> not always what they are looking for.. BOTH sexes suffer from this.
the female only SAYS yes when she finds it
>> enticing enough....
thom95
thom95
In <32A30C...@ica.net> Ariana <ari...@ica.net> writes:
>
>Eric Chen wrote:
>>
>> On 30 Nov 1996, thom95 wrote:
>
>> > A man does not get to sit back and wait ..he'll be left out in
the
>> > cold without bread to eat..if he doesn't take the bull by the
horns...
>>
>> Yep.
>
>Okay. I understand that guys have to do something to get into a
>relationship.
Well I do respect you for listening ..many don't want to see how it is
for the other side..but knowledge of this may be beneficial for you to
in some ways Ariana
And so you guys are bitter that you can't just sit and
>wait for a relationship to just come along.
Some on here are bitter , others like myself try to be observant and
experiment with things that do and don't work in this area...
>, so...as I've asked before, "what do you want us to do about
>it?"
Nothing really because then you wouldn't be being yourself or
responding to what you desired...and so the response wouldn't be very
enthusiastic....
>Maybe if you could provide some suggestions (like how to get rid of
this
>LJBFs problem) then we could do something about it.
Actually the only way (short of females changing their inner
attraction process- which 'aint gonna happen..)
is just be aware of LJBF's ...what they are...and what causes them to
happen..and/or are there different approaches with women that men can
use to maximize their romantic potential with them?...
Right now, I'm just
>getting the message that we just shouldn't be friends with guys unless
>we are seriously interesting in them.
No that would be guys sticking their heads in the sand ..complaining
why doesn't the sun set in the East....(actually I do think guys ARE
confused as to why and DEBATE endlessly on here why that I'm everything
she says she wants in a man yet they are "treated" as chopped liver in
the romance department.... reason ofcourse: other criteria exist which
rules out his "chances")
..and I think that's dumb.
Not only dumb but impractical cause the woman would be denying her
true desires in a man.....
>
>Ariana
Thom
thom95
....
(2nd part )