Florida to consider ending electrocutions?
Dan Cutrer
Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's method of
execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose legislative action
after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina, in which the head-piece
generated a foot-long flame on the side of his head seconds after the execution
started.
The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning head
gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll kill you with
equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the side of your
head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he said!)
east...@mail.bright.net
can...@onramp.net (Dan Cutrer) wrote:
>Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
>time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's method of
>execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose legislative action
>after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina, in which the head-piece
>generated a foot-long flame on the side of his head seconds after the execution
>started.
Gutless coward!
>The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
>Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning head
>gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll kill you with
>equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the side of your
>head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he said!)
Imagine your wife being car jacked with your 6 year old daughter
riding in the back seat. Tyrone decides to kill the mommy before
raping your baby... poor Tyrone, the thought of a foot-long plume of
smoke shooting from the side of his head makes we wanna cry!
Ohhh! I like him! He gonna run for president?
To bad they can't televise the killing of this animal.
Charles Trew
Dan Cutrer (can...@onramp.net) writes:
> Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
> time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's method of
> execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose legislative action
> after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina, in which the head-piece
> generated a foot-long flame on the side of his head seconds after the execution
> started.
I'd be willing to bet that Florida will switch fairly soon. The fact
is that this is a messy process and can be done more efficiently. This
method is, quite literally, overkill.
> The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
> Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning head
> gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll kill you with
> equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the side of your
> head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he said!)
Was this the guy on Larry King? I saw part of it and he didn't seem
too concerned, that's for sure. He made a point that Medina was dead
immediately regardless of how it all turned out.
David Parsons
In article <5ha0cr$h...@newnews.onramp.net>, can...@onramp.net says...
>The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
>Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning
>head gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here,
>we'll kill you with equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke
>up from the side of your head." (No, I am NOT making that up,
>it's almost exactly what he said!)
Amazing. But I'm surprised that no-one in the US (of a serious reputation
rather than the crypto-fascists who slime around here) has suggest yet
more gruesome punishments. A public hanging, drawing and quartering would
send a wonderful message, as would burning at the stake, the death of a
thousand cuts, breaking on the wheel etc. Let's get serious about crime,
people.
Avital Pilpel
east...@mail.bright.net wrote:
>
> Imagine your wife being car jacked with your 6 year old daughter
> riding in the back seat. Tyrone decides to kill the mommy before
> raping your baby... poor Tyrone, the thought of a foot-long plume of
> smoke shooting from the side of his head makes we wanna cry!
>
How about burning at the stake then, in the nearest public square? Or
drawing and quartering? Or Crucifixion?
That, too, would supposedly deter even more and "punish" even more than
just the plain ol' electric chair malfunctioning.
Besides, the attorny general in Florida said the following:
1. you better not kill in florida, or we will kill you in an electric
chair that might malfunction.
2. at any rate, Medina died instantly.
Now...
If by 1. he means that it will be painful, then that is contradicted by
2.
If by 1. he means that the chair WILL actually malfunction and won't
kill, then what sort of extra deterrant is that? "Do not rob in Florida
or we will put you in a jail that you might escape from..."
?
>
> To bad they can't televise the killing of this animal.
Obviously, that is where you get all your info.
--
Avital Pilpel.
=====================================
The majority is never right.
-Lazarus Long
=====================================
rmi...@fix.net
In article <5hb9nv$d...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
db...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Charles Trew) wrote:
> Dan Cutrer (can...@onramp.net) writes:
> > Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
> > time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's
method of
> > execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose
legislative action
> > after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina, in which the head-piece
> > generated a foot-long flame on the side of his head seconds after the
execution
> > started.
>
> I'd be willing to bet that Florida will switch fairly soon. The fact
> is that this is a messy process and can be done more efficiently. This
> method is, quite literally, overkill.
"..switch fairly soon..." Nice pun, Charles. Florida seems to be having
great trouble switching.
>
>
> > The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
> > Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the
malfunctioning head
> > gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll
kill you with
> > equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the side
of your
> > head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he
said!)
>
> Was this the guy on Larry King? I saw part of it and he didn't seem
> too concerned, that's for sure. He made a point that Medina was dead
> immediately regardless of how it all turned out.
I think that's almost certainly true, revolting spectacle though it must
have been. It seems to me somewhat akin to accidental decapitation during
judicial hanging. Messier than intended, but the fundamental objective of
the exercise is met.
And of course the world is now "better off".... The victim's family were
opposed to it, so their collective need for justice, or closure, or
whatever other benefit this particular exercise in fatuity is supposed to
confer was non-existent. A few red-necks will feel we have done well in
their name. Thoughtful proponents of judicial execution will probably
wonder about this one, and might even lobby for a method of killing
Florida's nominees for extinction by a less attention-attracting method. A
few might even admit that there are doubts about the lately incinerated Sr
Medina's guilt. But what the whatever: he was only a poor immigrant, and
we just don't make mistakes in TGCITW, by the way...
Will we never learn?
>
>
--
We should do our utmost to encourage the Beautiful, for the Useful encourages itself... (Goethe)
Don Kool
Davy Parsons wrote:
> can...@onramp.net says...
> >The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
> >Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning
> >head gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here,
> >we'll kill you with equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke
> >up from the side of your head." (No, I am NOT making that up,
> >it's almost exactly what he said!)
> Amazing. But I'm surprised that no-one in the US (of a serious reputation
> rather than the crypto-fascists who slime around here) has suggest yet
> more gruesome punishments. A public hanging, drawing and quartering would
> send a wonderful message, as would burning at the stake, the death of a
> thousand cuts, breaking on the wheel etc. Let's get serious about crime,
> people.
British methods of execution all. Sorry to disappoint you,
Davy, but Americans don't have the same kind of bloodlust that you
Brits do. We're much too civilized for that.
Hope this helps,
Don
********************** Get your stinking paws off me,
* Rev. Don McDonald * You damned, dirty ape !
* Baltimore, MD * ---- Charlton Heston
********************** "Planet of the Apes"
http://www.clark.net/pub/oldno7
Don Kool
Bobbi Mission, rmi...@fix.net wrote:
> db...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Charles Trew) wrote:
> > Dan Cutrer (can...@onramp.net) writes:
> > > Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
> > > time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's
> > > method of execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose
> > > legislative action after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina,
> > > in which the head-piece generated a foot-long flame on the side of his
> > > head seconds after the execution started.
> > I'd be willing to bet that Florida will switch fairly soon. The fact
> > is that this is a messy process and can be done more efficiently. This
> > method is, quite literally, overkill.
> "..switch fairly soon..." Nice pun, Charles. Florida seems to be having
> great trouble switching.
> > > The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
> > > Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the
> > > malfunctioning head gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you
> > > murder here, we'll kill you with equipment that sends a foot-long
> > > blue plume of smoke up from the side of your head." (No, I am
> > > NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he said!)
> > Was this the guy on Larry King? I saw part of it and he didn't seem
> > too concerned, that's for sure. He made a point that Medina was dead
> > immediately regardless of how it all turned out.
> I think that's almost certainly true, revolting spectacle though it must
> have been. It seems to me somewhat akin to accidental decapitation during
> judicial hanging. Messier than intended, but the fundamental objective of
> the exercise is met.
Yes there are always those that are a little too faint of
heart to see the tough jobs through.
> And of course the world is now "better off"....
Exactly. Finally you've made an intelligent comment.
> The victim's family were
> opposed to it, so their collective need for justice, or closure, or
> whatever other benefit this particular exercise in fatuity is supposed to
> confer was non-existent.
This is not revenge, it's justice. It's "The State vs.", not
"The family vs.".
> A few red-necks will feel we have done well in
> their name.
Always ready with an ad hominem, eh Bobbi? Guess it's
easier then coming up with something of substance.
> Thoughtful proponents of judicial execution will probably
> wonder about this one, and might even lobby for a method of killing
> Florida's nominees for extinction by a less attention-attracting method.
Well a just execution has never been for the squeamish. It is
a lot less messy then the crime scene however.
> A
> few might even admit that there are doubts about the lately incinerated Sr
> Medina's guilt.
Doubtful since the evidence of his guilt was overwhelming.
> But what the whatever: he was only a poor immigrant,
Nice touch of racism on your part, Bobbi. Kissed a skinhead
today?
> and
> we just don't make mistakes in TGCITW, by the way...
>
> Will we never learn?
It's doubtful that murderer lovers like you, Davy and Ozzy ever
will.
Lucas Stults
In article <3339D4...@columbia.edu>, Avital Pilpel
<ap...@columbia.edu> wrote:
> east...@mail.bright.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Imagine your wife being car jacked with your 6 year old daughter
> > riding in the back seat. Tyrone decides to kill the mommy before
> > raping your baby... poor Tyrone, the thought of a foot-long plume of
> > smoke shooting from the side of his head makes we wanna cry!
> >
>
> How about burning at the stake then, in the nearest public square? Or
> drawing and quartering? Or Crucifixion?
How about leaving the Slippery Slope arguments in your grade school debate
class, where they belong? If you're incapable intellectually
distinguishing between dying in a millisecond from massive electrical
shock and being drawn and quartered, all I can say is: You'd probably
figure out the difference pretty quickly if forced to choose between the
two.
Avital Pilpel
Lucas Stults wrote:
> If you're incapable intellectually
> distinguishing between dying in a millisecond from massive electrical
> shock and being drawn and quartered, all I can say is: You'd probably
> figure out the difference pretty quickly if forced to choose between the
> two.
The point is not how painful the electric chair is. the point is that the
arguments by the attorney general are logically incompatible.
You might be right on the fact that the electric chair is painless; but in
that case, why did the attorney general of florida say that it is painful and
that should act as an "extra" deterrant (presumably death itself is not
enough)?
Avital Pilpel
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan wrote:
> Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
> executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
> conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as the
> chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
> Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
To add to that, he wasa executed a year later again. That time he did not
survive.
The chair in florida was built in 1923, to quote today's New York Times.
>
> The point here is that, as I've said before, if the electric chair
> _were_ humane, then most of the proponents of capital punishment
> wouldn't be as keen on it as they are.
Probably true.
Randy
Avital Pilpel <ap...@columbia.edu> wrote in article
<333AD6...@columbia.edu>...
> Lucas Stults wrote:
>
> > If you're incapable intellectually
> > distinguishing between dying in a millisecond from massive electrical
> > shock and being drawn and quartered, all I can say is: You'd probably
> > figure out the difference pretty quickly if forced to choose between
the
> > two.
>
> The point is not how painful the electric chair is. the point is that the
> arguments by the attorney general are logically incompatible.
>
> You might be right on the fact that the electric chair is painless; but
in
> that case, why did the attorney general of Florida say that it is painful
and
> that should act as an "extra" deterrent (presumably death itself is not
> enough)?
The deterrent theory has never been disproved, so I fail to see your
correlation. But if you insist on a deterrent value added to society,
other than the one that this person will never have a chance to repeat his
crime, I'm all for showing a video of this execution to every child at age
13 and above, then study what happens over the next 20 to 30 years to the
murder rate. We could choose 4 of the higher crime rate states that
practice the death penalty, and 4 of the higher non death penalty states,
and as our tests we could also use 4 and 4 of the states with a much lower
crime rates. We now have a scientific model to test our over all theory of
whether the death penalty does or does not deter once and for all....
--
--Randy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Pro Death Penalty Page
ranlerch at epix.net - http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8169/
reply to email return address changed due to bulk email programs.
Replace at with the symbol @ in the address in the sig file to send mail
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <5hb9nv$d...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, written on Wed, 26 Mar
1997, Charles Trew <db...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>> The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be
the
>> Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the
malfunctioning head
>> gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll
kill you
>with
>> equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the
side of your
>> head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what
he said!)
>
> Was this the guy on Larry King? I saw part of it and he didn't
seem
>too concerned, that's for sure. He made a point that Medina was dead
>immediately regardless of how it all turned out.
How do you know? How does anyone know that he was dead immediately?
Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as the
chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
Or how about Alpha Otis Stephens, who was judicially murdered in Georgia
in 1984? Witnesses stated that Stephens struggled to breathe for eight
minutes after the first jolt of electricity hit him.
Then there was John Louis Evans (Alabama, April 1983), who took 14
minutes to die.
Or William Vandiver (Indiana, October 1985) who took seventeen minutes
and five charges to die.
The point here is that, as I've said before, if the electric chair
_were_ humane, then most of the proponents of capital punishment
wouldn't be as keen on it as they are.
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--
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk
http://www.maudit.demon.co.uk
"We got loud guitars and big suspicions, Great big guns and small
ambitions, And we still argue over who is God."
Sheryl Crow
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Mike Cullinan
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan wrote:
----------snip
>
>
> Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
> executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
> conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as the
> chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
> Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
>
> Or how about Alpha Otis Stephens, who was judicially murdered in Georgia
> in 1984? Witnesses stated that Stephens struggled to breathe for eight
> minutes after the first jolt of electricity hit him.
>
> Then there was John Louis Evans (Alabama, April 1983), who took 14
> minutes to die.
>
> Or William Vandiver (Indiana, October 1985) who took seventeen minutes
> and five charges to die.
>
> The point here is that, as I've said before, if the electric chair
> _were_ humane, then most of the proponents of capital punishment
> wouldn't be as keen on it as they are.
>
I can see that you've been visiting the Abolition Now! web page.
Mike Cullinan mgcullin@.connect.net
o o o o o <o <o> o> o
.Ś. \Ś. \Ś/ // X \ Ś <Ś <Ś>
/\ >\ /< >\ /< >\ /< >\ /<
Do a little Dance Get Down Tonight
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <333AD6...@columbia.edu>, written on Thu, 27 Mar 1997,
Avital Pilpel <ap...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>Lucas Stults wrote:
>
>> If you're incapable intellectually
>> distinguishing between dying in a millisecond from massive electrical
>> shock and being drawn and quartered, all I can say is: You'd
probably
>> figure out the difference pretty quickly if forced to choose between
the
>> two.
>
>The point is not how painful the electric chair is. the point is that
the
>arguments by the attorney general are logically incompatible.
>
>You might be right on the fact that the electric chair is painless; but
in
>that case, why did the attorney general of florida say that it is
painful and
>that should act as an "extra" deterrant (presumably death itself is not
>enough)?
I think the point everyone is missing is that no one _knows_ if the
electric chair kills in a millisecond, or whether or not it is painful.
No one who has died in the chair has ever come back. Willie Francis,
whom I mentioned in a separate post as having survived the first attempt
to kill him, stated that it was _extremely_ painful.
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Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
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In article <01bc3af4$74e61c00$a042e0c7@ranlerch>, written on Thu, 27 Mar
1997, Randy <ranl...@epix.net> wrote:
>>arguments by the attorney general are logically incompatible.
>>You might be right on the fact that the electric chair is
>>painless; but in that case, why did the attorney general of
>>Florida say that it is painful
>and that should act as an "extra" deterrent (presumably death
>>itself is not enough)?
>>
>The deterrent theory has never been disproved, so I fail to see
>your correlation.
Yes it has, Randy. It's just that certain pro-death penalty posters
prefer to claim that there _would_ be a deterrent, if only there were
more executions.
When you consider that practically every state and jurisdiction which
at any one time has implemented the death penalty, has witnessed a
sharp increase in the murder rate after an execution, things start to
look slightly dodgy for the death penalty. When you further consider
that those states and jurisdictions which have abolished the death
penalty have experienced either no significant rise in the murder rate,
or a sharp _fall_ in the rate of violent crime, then I think that it
doesn't take a quantum leap of comprehension to figure out that the
death penalty is having a rather unhealthy effect on society.
If by "proved", however, you mean, _scientifically_ proved, then no,
perhaps you're right. However, there have been (to the best of my
knowledge) no scientific studies done in Saudi Arabia, China, Iran,
Egypt, and other undemocratic, repressive countries (in whose company
the United States seems content to be seen), into the effects of the
death penalty as a deterrent. Yet these countries and others
are frquently cited as places where the death penalty "obviously"
deters.
>But if you insist on a deterrent value added
>to society, other than the one that this person will never have
>a chance to repeat his crime, I'm all for showing a video of this
>execution to every child at age 13 and above, then study what
>happens over the next 20 to 30 years to the murder rate. We could
>choose 4 of the higher crime rate states that practice the death
>penalty, and 4 of the higher non death penalty states, and as our
>tests we could also use 4 and 4 of the states with a much lower
>crime rates. We now have a scientific model to test our over
>all theory of whether the death penalty does or does not deter
>once and for all....
Randy, I'm surprised at you!! Showing videos of executions to 13-year-
old children??!! Do you want them to have nightmares for the rest of
their lives?!
Such tactics aren't necessary. Ask any 13-year-old child whether the
United States has the death penalty, and I guarantee that most (if not
all) will answer yes, or at least, if the state in which he lives is
a retentionist one, he will be aware of this fact.
My point is that everyone in the United States knows that in most
places, the penalty for murder is death. The fact is that this
widespread knowledge does absolutely nothing to deter murderers. The
death penalty _does not deter murderers_.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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--
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk
http://www.maudit.demon.co.uk
C'était pour m'excuser. On ne tombe pas folle amoureuse d'un autre,
en plein cours d'une liaison charmante, sans présenter des
explications.'
'Les Stances à Sophie'
Christiane Rochefort
Randy
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan <D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk> wrote in
article <iL2cgFAt...@maudit.demon.co.uk>...
[all snipped]
>
> My point is that everyone in the United States knows that in most
> places, the penalty for murder is death. The fact is that this
> widespread knowledge does absolutely nothing to deter murderers. The
> death penalty _does not deter murderers_.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Des, Haven't you visited my site since I upgraded it :-)
Here is one of the stories I recently added.....
The Washington Post
January 07, 1996, Sunday, Final Edition
SECTION: OUTLOOK; Pg. C05; UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM
LENGTH: 935 words
HEADLINE: UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM; New facts and hot stats from
the social sciences
BYLINE: Richard Morin
BODY: Prime Time On Death Row
As if television weren't violent enough, here's one possible way to
reduce the murder rate: Broadcast executions in prime time.
At least that's what criminologist Steven Stack says is one of the
implications of his discovery that homicides dropped in the days
following widely publicized executions during the 1970s and 1980s.
The decline in killings was small but significant -- and appeared to
occur among white victims but not among blacks, Stack reported in a
recent issue of Criminal Justice and Behavior.
Stack found that, on average, about three fewer whites were
murdered on the third day following a publicized execution, which he
defined as one reported on at least two of the three major television
networks. (He found the impact of a high-profile execution was greatest
on the third day, then the rate appeared to return to normal.)
But the homicide rate for blacks was unaffected by publicized
executions, said Stack, who teaches at Wayne State University.
Likewise, executions that were not widely publicized had no measurable
affect on murders of blacks or whites.
Why the difference by race? Here things get a bit thick, Stack
acknowledges. He speculates that a disproportionately large number of
African Americans are less affected by publicized executions because
they are more likely than whites to endure extreme "homicide-producing
conditions, such as poverty, family disruption, and the subculture of
violence." These risk factors act "as a barrier against a decline in
homicide." Since people tend to kill people of their own race, the result
may be that "homicide-producing life circumstances of African
Americans may be offsetting the messages of deterrence, victim
mobilization" and other social warnings "found in the stories about the
executions," he wrote.
At least that's the theory. Stack said more studies are needed. If his
results are confirmed, he said states might seek to maximize coverage of
executions in an effort to reduce homicides, at least among whites.
Some states aren't waiting for more data. Broadcasting executions isn't
a new idea, and efforts are already underway in California and
elsewhere to televise killers being gassed, fried or drugged to death in
an attempt to scare would-be killers straight.
Dan Cutrer
In article <333AD6...@columbia.edu>, ap...@columbia.edu says...
>> If you're incapable intellectually
>> distinguishing between dying in a millisecond from massive electrical
>> shock and being drawn and quartered, all I can say is: You'd probably
>> figure out the difference pretty quickly if forced to choose between the
>> two.
>The point is not how painful the electric chair is. the point is that the
>You might be right on the fact that the electric chair is painless; but in
>that should act as an "extra" deterrant (presumably death itself is not
>enough)?
Interestingly, for those who missed it, the Florida Attorney General now
agrees that it's time to explore lethal injections ... and, I gather, is "crawfishing"
from his earlier statements. (For those of you who aren't conversant with the
beast, crawfish scurry backwards ...)
I posted his comments originally as a great example of a politician grabbing a
"red meat" (no pun intended) issue ... research in Florida shows that voters
wanting more executions is always at the very top of citizen concerns ... no
politician who is currying favor with voters would ever announce opposition to
executions.
If the goal is to keep executions in Florida "on schedule", then the last thing the
Attorney General wants is another round of challenges to the chair as being
"cruel and inhumane", although the US Supremes have always rejected any
claim of that sort.
Regardless of how any of us feel about executions, it's important to note that
it's become more of a political issue than one of justice ... voters want to
hear about criminals being put to death ... politicians will give them their 20th
Century version of a Roman Circus.
Dan Cutrer
In article <333AD7...@columbia.edu>, ap...@columbia.edu says...
>Mr Desmond E. Coughlan wrote:
>> Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
>> executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
>> conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as the
>> chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
>> Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
>survive.
I've done considerable research into Willie Earl Francis story ... for a book that
I swear I'll someday get around to writing.
Willie Earl was actually "hit" by the "juice", the chair had worked perfectly a
day earlier up-country from Franklin Parish, both the electrician and the trustee
who drove the truck that carried the chair and generator from Parish to Parish
in Louisiana were falling-down drunk. The voltage that hit Willie wasn't
enough to kill him. Willie later said "My mouth tasted like butter-beans."
The Sheriff, Bobby Joe Reesweber, located Governor Jimmie Davis, best
known for "You Are My Sunshine", visiting the Warden at the State Pen in
Angola. "We got us a half-dead N-word in the electric chair. Whadda you
want us to do with him?" Said Davis, a noted singer of Christian songs, "Get
him to a hospital, before he dies on you." Overlooking the fact that such had
been the original intent.
The Texas chair just didn't work once in the 30's ... the execution was
postponed, and it worked perfectly a couple days later.
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <333B4C...@connect.net>, written on Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Mike
Cullinan <mgcu...@connect.net> wrote:
>>
>> Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
>> executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
>> conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as
the
>> chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
>> Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
>>
>> Or how about Alpha Otis Stephens, who was judicially murdered in
Georgia
>> in 1984? Witnesses stated that Stephens struggled to breathe for
eight
>> minutes after the first jolt of electricity hit him.
>>
>> Then there was John Louis Evans (Alabama, April 1983), who took 14
>> minutes to die.
>>
>> Or William Vandiver (Indiana, October 1985) who took seventeen
minutes
>> and five charges to die.
>>
>> The point here is that, as I've said before, if the electric chair
>> _were_ humane, then most of the proponents of capital punishment
>> wouldn't be as keen on it as they are.
>>
>
>I can see that you've been visiting the Abolition Now! web page.
>
Uh-uh. In fact, I got these cases from an Amnesty International book
called "When the State Kills".
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--
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <5hfdcv$s...@newnews.onramp.net>, written on Fri, 28 Mar 1997,
Dan Cutrer <can...@onramp.net> wrote:
>
>I've done considerable research into Willie Earl Francis story ... for
a book
>that
>I swear I'll someday get around to writing.
>
>Willie Earl was actually "hit" by the "juice", the chair had worked
perfectly
>a
>day earlier up-country from Franklin Parish, both the electrician and
the
>trustee
>who drove the truck that carried the chair and generator from Parish to
Parish
>in Louisiana were falling-down drunk. The voltage that hit Willie
wasn't
>enough to kill him. Willie later said "My mouth tasted like butter-
beans."
>
I thought he said ". . .like peanut butter." Anyway. . .
>The Sheriff, Bobby Joe Reesweber, located Governor Jimmie Davis,
best
>known for "You Are My Sunshine", visiting the Warden at the State Pen
in
>Angola. "We got us a half-dead N-word in the electric chair. Whadda
you
>want us to do with him?" Said Davis, a noted singer of Christian
songs, "Get
>him to a hospital, before he dies on you." Overlooking the fact
that such
>had
>been the original intent.
>
Which all goes to show that claims that the electric chair kills "in a
millisecond" are nonsense.
I made this point late in 1996, that there are regular occurences here
in Scotland of young children who decide to play near railways lines.
Most of our trains run on diesel, but the lines in Glasgow are
electrified. I think it's 34,000 volts, or something like that, but I
couldn't swear to the exact voltage. The amperage is pretty high, as
well, which is obviously needed to power the trains.
Anyhow, every so often, one hears of a child who accidently touches one
of the lines, and gets thrown about fifty feet, burnt from head to toe,
but survives, and (this is the important part) is _conscious
throughout_.
The power used in these lines is almost certainly much higher than that
used in the electric chair, and so one can never be sure that the chair
kills instantly.
Besides, as I've said, if it _were_ humane, then the good ol' boys in
Florida, Georgia, and other electric chair states wouldn't be _half_ as
keen on it as they are.
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Randy
Mr Desmond E. Coughlan <D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk> wrote in
article <l1J9fGAS...@maudit.demon.co.uk>...
>
> Which all goes to show that claims that the electric chair kills "in a
> millisecond" are nonsense.
>
> I made this point late in 1996, that there are regular occurences here
> in Scotland of young children who decide to play near railways lines.
> Most of our trains run on diesel, but the lines in Glasgow are
> electrified. I think it's 34,000 volts, or something like that, but I
> couldn't swear to the exact voltage. The amperage is pretty high, as
> well, which is obviously needed to power the trains.
>
> of the lines, and gets thrown about fifty feet, burnt from head to toe,
> but survives, and (this is the important part) is _conscious
> throughout_.
Usually you blank for a couple of seconds or so, immediately, when you are
"jolted".
Talking from experience, I've gotten my share accidental jolts on lower
voltages, that being 480 volts or lower, no this is not my problem in life
:-))) but in all honesty, you usually blank out for a couple of
milliseconds as soon as you touch it. In fact one of the last times I
bumped up against a uncontrolled 240 volt AC SCR in a electrical panel I
was working in, it knocked me back a little and I do remember just seeing a
red flash before my eyes, even thought there was no electrical flash in the
panel, but I still can't tell you why I was laying down rather than the
sitting position I was in, when I started reaching for the bunch of wires
between the SCR's.... Now when you get into the power lines for trains,
these usually use a DC current due to the load required for moving the
trains, which if you get up against, it has this nasty habit of holding you
there while it fries you. I try pretty much try to stay away from DC for
that reason, or I sure as hell make sure all the power is off and safety
lock outs are in place...
> The power used in these lines is almost certainly much higher than that
> used in the electric chair, and so one can never be sure that the chair
> kills instantly.
>
> Besides, as I've said, if it _were_ humane, then the good ol' boys in
> Florida, Georgia, and other electric chair states wouldn't be _half_ as
> keen on it as they are.
The reasoning is, there are even more human ways, like just putting the
condemned nighty night, and with the next drug, stop all organ functions,
why not use this method, clean, quite, and deadly efficient, which is all
we want in the end, the end of any possible threat against another human
ever again.....
--
Kensington Kidz
east...@mail.bright.net wrote:
: can...@onramp.net (Dan Cutrer) wrote:
: >Interesting comment from Florida Governor Lawton Chiles ... that maybe it's
: >time to switch from electrocution to lethal injection as the state's method of
: >execution. Chiles called for a new study ... and may propose legislative action
: >after Tuesday 3/24's execution of Pedro Medina, in which the head-piece
: >generated a foot-long flame on the side of his head seconds after the execution
: >started.
: Gutless coward!
: >The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be the
: >Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the malfunctioning head
: >gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll kill you with
: >equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the side of your
: >head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what he said!)
: Imagine your wife being car jacked with your 6 year old daughter
: riding in the back seat. Tyrone decides to kill the mommy before
: raping your baby... poor Tyrone, the thought of a foot-long plume of
: smoke shooting from the side of his head makes we wanna cry!
: Ohhh! I like him! He gonna run for president?
: To bad they can't televise the killing of this animal.
Ah, the dulcet refrain of the pro-DP chorus: one atrocity deserves
another; two wrongs make a right. It is a sad state of affairs when we
let this kind of "logic" determine public policy.
--
"It is well for our vanity that we slay the criminal, for if we suffered
him to live he might show us what we had gained by his crime."
-Oscar Wilde
"Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!"
-Friedrich Nietzsch
Mitchell Holman
In article <01bc3af4$74e61c00$a042e0c7@ranlerch>, "Randy " <spamproof...@epix.net> wrote:
}
}The deterrent theory has never been disproved, so I fail to see your
}correlation.
Uhm....ahem.....Since when does does a theory have
to be *disproved*?
It would seem that the theory of deterrence needs to be
proved by those who believe in it, not the other way around.
But if you insist on a deterrent value added to society,
}other than the one that this person will never have a chance to repeat his
}crime, I'm all for showing a video of this execution to every child at age
}13 and above, then study what happens over the next 20 to 30 years to the
}murder rate.
Sounds like the "Scared Straight" experiment, where high school
students were taken on tours of the worst prisons in their states.
On the theory they would be thus "deterred" from crime. Trouble
was, the "graduates" of these programs later had higher rates of
criminal activity than their classmates that were not so blessed.
Well, it looked good on paper, anyway.....
Mitchell Holman
"Have you ever noticed that all newspaper composite drawings of
wanted criminals look like Jesse Jackson?"
Rush Limbaugh, warming up to his few black listeners,10/8/90
rmi...@fix.net
In article <yf3Y1JAp...@maudit.demon.co.uk>, "Mr Desmond E. Coughlan"
<D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In article <5hb9nv$d...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, written on Wed, 26 Mar
> 1997, Charles Trew <db...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
> >> The Attorney General of Florida, who, by my guess would love to be
> the
> >> Next Governor of Florida, issued a statement saying the
> malfunctioning head
> >> gear sent a stern message to murderers, "If you murder here, we'll
> kill you
> >with
> >> equipment that sends a foot-long blue plume of smoke up from the
> side of your
> >> head." (No, I am NOT making that up, it's almost exactly what
> he said!)
> >
> > Was this the guy on Larry King? I saw part of it and he didn't
> seem
> >too concerned, that's for sure. He made a point that Medina was dead
> >immediately regardless of how it all turned out.
>
> How do you know? How does anyone know that he was dead immediately?
>
> Think of the case of Willie Francis, whom the state of Louisiana
> executed in 1946. He survived the first attempt, and was fully
> conscious throughout. Don't tell me that things are better now, as the
> chair that they used then is probably no older than the chair that
> Florida used to kill Medina a few days ago.
>
> Or how about Alpha Otis Stephens, who was judicially murdered in Georgia
> in 1984? Witnesses stated that Stephens struggled to breathe for eight
> minutes after the first jolt of electricity hit him.
>
> Then there was John Louis Evans (Alabama, April 1983), who took 14
> minutes to die.
>
> Or William Vandiver (Indiana, October 1985) who took seventeen minutes
> and five charges to die.
>
> The point here is that, as I've said before, if the electric chair
> _were_ humane, then most of the proponents of capital punishment
> wouldn't be as keen on it as they are.
I certainly support your sentiments Des, but descriptions of this horrible
scenario suggest that Medina was unconscious, and probably dead
immediately. None the less, it is hard to imagine a more inhumane way to
execute a man (without deliberately trying to inflict pain).
>
>
>
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>
> --
> Mr Desmond E. Coughlan
> D.Coughlan@nospam_maudit.demon.co.uk
> http://www.maudit.demon.co.uk
>
> "We got loud guitars and big suspicions, Great big guns and small
> ambitions, And we still argue over who is God."
> Sheryl Crow
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--
Dan Hogg
In article <01bc3b27$c922ddc0$6642e0c7@ranlerch>, "Randy " <spamproof...@epix.net> writes:
[...]
|> The Washington Post
|>
|> January 07, 1996, Sunday, Final Edition
|>
|> SECTION: OUTLOOK; Pg. C05; UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM
|>
|> LENGTH: 935 words
|>
|> HEADLINE: UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM; New facts and hot stats from
|> the social sciences
|>
|> BYLINE: Richard Morin
|>
|> BODY: Prime Time On Death Row
|>
|> As if television weren't violent enough, here's one possible way to
|> reduce the murder rate: Broadcast executions in prime time.
Hey - we've got agreement! I think it would be terrific to broadcast these
events. What kind of reaction do you think the pro-dp side would get if the
execution of Medina had been televised - flames shooting out of his head and
all. It's one thing to wish for televising the execution of a serial murderer,
who is universally loathed and quite another to televise the execution of a
person convicted of a single murder. Maybe it would result in fewer people
sent to death row in the first place.
--
==========================================================================
Daniel Hogg | da...@lexis-nexis.com
LEXIS-NEXIS | dh...@erinet.com
Dayton, OH 45342 |
==========================================================================
There is no need to think outside the box...
if you don't build a box to begin with.
Don Kool
> [...]
>
> |> The Washington Post
> |>
> |> January 07, 1996, Sunday, Final Edition
> |>
> |> SECTION: OUTLOOK; Pg. C05; UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM
> |>
> |> LENGTH: 935 words
> |>
> |> HEADLINE: UNCONVENTIONAL WISDOM; New facts and hot stats from
> |> the social sciences
> |>
> |> BYLINE: Richard Morin
> |>
> |> BODY: Prime Time On Death Row
> |>
> |> As if television weren't violent enough, here's one possible way to
> |> reduce the murder rate: Broadcast executions in prime time.
> Hey - we've got agreement! I think it would be terrific to broadcast these
> events. What kind of reaction do you think the pro-dp side would get if the
> execution of Medina had been televised - flames shooting out of his head and
> all.
Fucking-A! That would have been bitchin'. Oh, that's right,
it was his hood that caught on fire, not him. <yawn>
> It's one thing to wish for televising the execution of a serial murderer,
> who is universally loathed and quite another to televise the execution of a
> person convicted of a single murder. Maybe it would result in fewer people
> sent to death row in the first place.
Doubtful. We see replays over and over on the news of store
owners and police officers shot down by your beloved murderers and
no one gets too terribly fired up about it. The number of really
heinous murderers that get what they deserve remains fairly constant.
Dan Cutrer
Wrapping up this thread ... I got back into town to discover a news story that
Florida Governor Lawton Chiles announced that Pedro Medina felt no pain
during the execution that saw a foot-long plume of blue smoke fly out of the
leather face mask that prevents the witnesses from seeing the guest's eye-balls
shatter, and smoke as they're heated to over 200 degrees, his nose start
bleeding, etc.
Says the gadget that started the fire was a "corroded wire screen", presumably
the copper plate in a rectangle of several inches that fits onto the top of the
head during executions ... that Florida will stick with electrocutions, and that it
will replace the "wire screen" afresh for each new execution.
The Florida electrocution equipment includes a leg attachment originally made
from the tongue of an old leather boot. Another "wire screen" and natural sea
sponge are laced around the guest's leg to give the electricity arriving via The
Noggin a place to exit. The gear is reportedly rough-sewn, but extremely
effective.
Don Kool
Dan Cutrer wrote:
Certainly was "effective" enough for old Pedro. Kind of sad that
the anti Death Penalty cabal was so quick to jump on the whole flame
thing
before they had the facts of the matter. (who would've thought :-) ).