Steve Levicoff's Suggestion...
Dave Gallucci
In reading Steve's plan of attack for a situation very similar to my own,
see Steve's URL at http://levicoff.tripod.com/tesc/tescport.htm ) I was
wondering if TESC is as liberal as Charter Oak. It seems like the most
viable approach for me to take, and I just want to make sure that I can
leverage the most credits for my time invested in compiling the "challenge
portfolio." Suggestions? Steve?
Thanks in advance,
Dave Gallucci
Steve Levicoff
As you are aware, Dave, it all depends on how extensive your
experiential base is. If you have a wide array of knowledge *and* can
document that knowledge, TESC is *very* liberal in granting credit on a
portfolio basis. (In fact, there was a widely publicized case about a
year ago about a student who did his entire TESC degree by portfolio.)
I always felt that the portfolios I did required minimal effort.
However, over the years I had spent my time reading non-fiction instead
of comic books, watching documentaries instead of trash talk shows, and
keeping very tight records of things ranging from my business activities
to my various avocations. The more documentation you have at hand, the
easier the process.
With all that in mind, your time-versus-credits ratio will be far more
efficient by submitting portfolios than by taking actual courses, doing
required assignments, studying for and taking exams, etc.
--
,-~~-.___.
/ | ' \
( ) 0
\_/-, ,----'
==== //
/ \-'~; /~~~(O)
/ __/~| / |
=( _____| (_________|
------------------------------
Steve Levicoff
levi...@ix.netcom.com
http://levicoff.tripod.com
------------------------------
Lawrie Miller
On the last point, it is possible to do a BA from scratch by examination
in about four weeks. Very doable, if you have the appropriate
background, which presumably you would have, if you were going
for portfolio assessment. I would argue it is faster, cheaper, and a lot
less hassle to walk the walk by writing the relevant examinations, than
to try to talk your way to a degree using portfolio assessment. After all,
if you know the subject, and an appropriate exam is available, what
better way to prove your worth than by testing.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, use portfolio assessment.
[The relative efficiency of testing meant seriously, the rest, :-)]
Steve Levicoff
> On the last point, it is possible to do a BA from scratch by examination
> in about four weeks. Very doable, if you have the appropriate
> background, which presumably you would have, if you were going
> for portfolio assessment. I would argue it is faster, cheaper, and a lot
> less hassle to walk the walk by writing the relevant examinations, than
> to try to talk your way to a degree using portfolio assessment. After all,
> if you know the subject, and an appropriate exam is available, what
> better way to prove your worth than by testing.
>
> Those who can, do. Those who can't, use portfolio assessment.
>
> [The relative efficiency of testing meant seriously, the rest, :-)]
I submit that, considering the distribution requirements for a B.A.,
almost no one could walk into a testing center and take *all* of the
exams necessary to earn a 120-credit degree without an *extensive*
amount of pre-test preparation, which would take far longer than the
development of a portfolio. Moreover, if the average 3-credit test
takes 3 clock hours to complete (and even if the test were completed in
less time, the testing schedule dictates that one could not move onto
the next test until scheduled) and that most testing centers will allow
a maximum of two exams to be taken on one day, the process can be longer
and more drawn out than the portfolio process.
Moreover, as I have written in several sources, when doing a portfolio
*you* control the perspective from which a subject is approached. In a
standardized test, you have no voice in the matter. Also, assuming that
almost everyone would need extensive preparation for a complete battery
of tests leading to a degree, the costs would actually be greater than
doing portfolios in light of the books that would have to be bought, the
energy that would have to be used by the lightbulb when studying the
books (yeah, my tongue is in my cheek), etc.
Those who have accomplished much already can use portfolio assessment.
Those who have accomplished diddly-squat have to use tests. And unless
Lawrie completed an *entire* degree program by exam, I rest my case.
:-)
(Incidentally, this philosophy has been confirmed on a practical basis
by our own illustrious young star, Tom Head. I entered TESC at 31,
having already been in teh professional marketplace for several years.
Tom completed his Regents degree at 17, I believe, and confirms that for
him, testing was the better option. Colloquially speaking, it all
depends on where each individual is at.)
Lawrie Miller
***********************************************
Report Card:-
[Steve is bright but unwilling to do the necessary research before
posting. Undisciplined. Does not always employ adequate rigor
when developing his case. Seldom allows logic or facts to get in the
way of what he considers a good theory. Overall grade B-]
***********************************************
The final part of this post contains a blow by blow account of how
a 120 semester hour RA degree can be completed in four weeks at
minimal cost, and without recourse to GRE subject exams. As a
result, his post is a little on the long side, but I am anxious to help
Steve understand where he errs..
[Almost no one could do it]
1) It is entirely possible to take and pass all exams necessary to meet the
requirements for a BA or BS degree without extensive study (details
follow).
2) It is entirely possible if adequately prepared by life's experiences,
through occupation, prior formal education, general reading,
personal interests (e.g. politics, history, physics, literature), to
review and test out in all necessary disciplines, in four weeks.
[impractical - not enough hours in the day to do it]
3) The average 3-semester hour credit takes 90 minutes to complete,
not three hours. It is easily possible to sit three examinations per
day and I (and I expect many others) have done so on many
occasions.
4) Where 3-semester hour exams are three hours in length, it is *still*
possible to sit three exams per day. It is not true that if an exam is
completed in less than the allotted time, you cannot immediately
move on to the next exam, you can. Again, I have sat three 3-hour
exams in one day (more than once) that have taken an average of
one hour to complete, and have immediately moved on to the next
exam.
[Few test stations will let you do it]
5) Enough test stations will allow you to take more than two exams per
day. US military bases will allow you to take as many exams per day
as you can cram into their test station's hours of operation. Larry has
posted other examples. All Sylvan centers (RCE exams) will allow
three 3-hour exams per day Monday through Friday.
6) The exceptions would be GRE subject exams where it is not
possible to sit multiple exams in a day, but in these cases, a
total of 30 semester hours can be granted for a pass above the
80th percentile. A score above the 80th percentile is very doable.
I have done so on two occasions, others here have done so on
three or four occasions.
[It will end up costing more than portfolio assessment, and be slower]
7) The cost per 3-semester hour test varies by exam type, and prices
are always subject to change, but, including administration fees,
average cost are in the ball park of $35, $54, $120, $240, per
3-semester hours, for DANTES, CLEP, RCE objective, RCE
essay. Note that further saving can be had by using CLEP
General Exams at around $54 per 6-semester hours, and GRE
subject exams at around $100 per 30-semester hours. Note
again, that prices include all exam administration fees and
transcript fees.
8) If a learner enrolls in a Regents College program, there is no fee
for transcription of credits. The initial enrollment fee is around $720
and a graduation fee of around $400. The total amount paid to
the college therefore, need be no more than $1200.
9) Total costs including books, exam fees, transcripts, and all
college fees, will be around $3000 odd, to complete a 120
semester hour bachelor's degree, from scratch in around
four weeks.
[Those accomplished will use portfolio assessment]
10) I had plenty of prior credit going into my first degree, and
a bunch of documented evidence to support any claim to
credit via portfolio assessment. After doing a couple of
competency exams, I decided it was clearly the way to go.
Since I was just about outraged by ECE's assessment of
the level of my existing credentials, and since the grades
were pretty lousy anyway, I decided I would make a clean
sweep and redo almost everything. I was thwarted in this
to some extent by Regents intention to separate from USNY
(I wanted a USNY degree), and so bailed out (graduated)
still carrying some dross from prior credit transfer. Bummer.
In the second BS, I made up for this, though.
I did 200 semester hours by testing out, over a total of 40
competency exams. 14 were CLEP exams, 13 were RCE
exams, 10 were DANTES exams, and 2 were GRE exams.
The first four CLEP exam were taken in two groups of two
exams per diet because, at the time, I did not know of any
test station that would allow me to take more than two. One
other exam was taken alone to meet a final requirement in my
first BS.
When I discovered I could take multiple exams at at VAFB
near Lompoc in CA, I took 8 CLEP and 10 DANTES over
two diets, each three days in length. Regents College
Examinations (RCE) were all taken in batches of three exams
per day, with one exception (obviously).
I think that makes seven occasions where I've taken three exams
per day. While it was sometimes a bit uncomfortable, and I did
feel a little pressed for time, it was certainly doable.
11) [Exactly how could one complete any entire degree in four weeks
without recourse to GRE subject exams?]
To complete an AS degree in two weeks or BS degree in
four weeks (a comfortable period) without using GRE subject
exams, military bases are the only viable option I know. I guess
you could travel from test center to test center, doing the usual
two exams per diet, then traveling to the next center for another
two exams and so on. Not very practical.
VAFB (University of La Verne base outpost) would allow
testing Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday all day and Thursday
part of the day. When you work out the practicalities behind the
numbers, this restricts you to three exams a day. Three exams a
day is also a comfortable pace that can be sustained over a
period of weeks (my view).
Given the need for some revision, nine exams per week spread
over three consecutive days of four consecutive days, is practical
and sensible. Note that at least some of the exams will have to be
RCE to meet UD requirements.
Since the first five exams should be the CLEP general exams, each
worth six credit hours, the freshman year can be completed before
the second day's testing has ended. By the end of the second day
of the second week, the sophomore year will be in the bag. This
leaves seven days testing over the next two and a half weeks to
complete the junior and senior years. Plenty of time for revision
and altogether a walk in the park. :-)
Note that the practical limit on RCE exams is three per day. Each
of these exams is three hours in length. Most Sylvan centers are
open at least nine hours per day excluding Saturday and Sunday
(Saturday a half day normally). I'm not suggesting spending nine
hours at a stretch testing, but you can schedule it that way. Most
RCE exams can be completed in about an hour, and those
administering the exams will allow you to start the next scheduled
exam early if you have completed the preceding one in short time.
Of the thirteen RCE I've taken, only two required the full three
hours, English Composition and Business Policy and Strategy .
So, You should be in and out, and nine UD credits to the good
in about four hours or so for each day of RCE testing, on average.
In Two weeks (AS degree) or four weeks (BS degree), you will
have completed all degree requirements without prematurely turning
gray. Send in the graduation fee and wait for conferral.
Why on earth would anyone want to use a degree mill? The
quickie (from scratch) RA degree is very doable, GPA and
all, courtesy of Uncle Sam (military bases).
(I know, you wished you hadn't asked.)
Tom Head
> almost no one could walk into a testing center and take *all* of the exams
> necessary to earn a 120-credit degree without an *extensive* amount of
> pre-test preparation, which would take far longer than the development of
> a portfolio. Moreover, if the average 3-credit test takes 3 clock hours
> to complete (and even if the test were completed in less time, the testing
> schedule dictates that one could not move onto the next test until
> scheduled) and that most testing centers will allow a maximum of two exams
> to be taken on one day, the process can be longer and more drawn out than
> the portfolio process.
Minor nitpick: I once took five DANTES exams in one day, at $27 or so a pop.
I could have scheduled to do that five days per week and, if I passed all of
them, would have 75 hours of credit under my belt right there.
Then there's the whole GRE option, which can be worth a whopping
amount at Regents if you really know your stuff.
Peace,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thomas Carwile Head "Being properly distracted for a moment
M.A. Candidate (Nonresident) is child's play. Being rightly
Humanities External Degree distracted for a lifetime is an art."
California State University,
Dominguez Hills -- Douglas Adams
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E-Mail t...@netdoor.com / http://www2.netdoor.com/~tlh / ICQ 20364804
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Kevin Stewart
Tom Head wrote in message ...
>Minor nitpick: I once took five DANTES exams in one day, at $27 or so a
pop.
>I could have scheduled to do that five days per week and, if I passed all
of
>them, would have 75 hours of credit under my belt right there.
> Then there's the whole GRE option, which can be worth a whopping
>amount at Regents if you really know your stuff.
What I wanna know is how you did your Major, (including preparation).
Facts, Tom! Just the facts. Maybe a wee tad of a boast! <G>
Kevin
Ever have a major nitpick?
Tom Head
> He is alive. I feel relieved.
Whew. Depends on your definition of "alive"; it has been a busy day. :o)
But, uh, thanks -- I think!
Michael Lomker
news:3849730E...@home.com...
> On the last point, it is possible to do a BA from scratch by examination
> in about four weeks. Very doable, if you have the appropriate
I assume you are talking about taking 4 GRE's? Has anyone actually done
that? I find it hard to believe, because the distribution requirements for
most degrees could not be fulfilled by using just four subject areas. I'm
looking through the requirements for a BS/MIS at Regents, and there are all
kinds of subjects and tests to take (including required written english,
ethics, etc. that could not be fulfilled with a GRE exam).
Michael Lomker
> Why on earth would anyone want to use a degree mill? The
> quickie (from scratch) RA degree is very doable, GPA and
> all, courtesy of Uncle Sam (military bases).
Would I be correct to assume that you have to be a veteran to use DANTES and
military testing centers?
Larry McQueary
have been eligible to take DANTES exams. Contact DANTES (or possibly your
nearest large community college) for more info.
Larry
Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:B7A24.1712$w92....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:38499FF5...@home.com...
> > Why on earth would anyone want to use a degree mill? The
> > quickie (from scratch) RA degree is very doable, GPA and
> > all, courtesy of Uncle Sam (military bases).
>
Kevin Stewart
doubtful military personnel are the only candidates, unless you include
"...and their families...."
Kevin
Michael Lomker wrote in message ...
Tom Head
> > On the last point, it is possible to do a BA from scratch by examination
> > in about four weeks. Very doable, if you have the appropriate
>
> I assume you are talking about taking 4 GRE's? Has anyone actually done
> that? I find it hard to believe, because the distribution requirements
> for most degrees could not be fulfilled by using just four subject areas.
It would be necessary, now, to take four GREs *and* the Regents College
English Comp exam (to fulfill written English requirements) -- but, yes, it's
still quite doable. My BA was actually based on two GREs (60 hours), one
general CLEP (6 hours) and two subject CLEPs (9 hours), thirteen DANTES exams
(39 hours), and three independent study courses (9 hours).
> I'm looking through the requirements for a BS/MIS at Regents, and there
> are all kinds of subjects and tests to take (including required written
> english, ethics, etc. that could not be fulfilled with a GRE exam).
Well, the "four GREs and a Written English Requirement" method really would
only work for a BALA/BSLA with emphasis in a field that happens to have a
corroborating GRE; in the case of the BS/MIS, though, I'm confident that it
could probably be done based on "two GREs, a Written English Requirement,
three DANTES exams, and five exam-based certifications."
Tom Head
> > Why on earth would anyone want to use a degree mill? The
> > quickie (from scratch) RA degree is very doable, GPA and
> > all, courtesy of Uncle Sam (military bases).
>
> Would I be correct to assume that you have to be a veteran to use DANTES
> and military testing centers?
Nope -- I did mine as a civilian.
Michael Lomker
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.991205...@lance.netdoor.com...
> corroborating GRE; in the case of the BS/MIS, though, I'm confident that
it
> could probably be done based on "two GREs, a Written English Requirement,
> three DANTES exams, and five exam-based certifications."
I appreciate your input; I'm having a good time sorting through and
exploring my options. Would you believe I find exploring ways of obtaining
a degree to be as exciting as the prospect of actually getting one? :) I
guess it's just the strategic side of me.
There are a couple DANTES exams that I want to take - I will explore the
registration process. There is a National Guard base and VA hospital near
the Minneapolis international airport; I'd be surprised if testing wasn't
available there.
Which GRE's did you take? I was wondering how good the study guides are for
the GRE's - maybe I could do the psychology exam.
Tom Head
> I appreciate your input; I'm having a good time sorting through and
> exploring my options. Would you believe I find exploring ways of
> obtaining a degree to be as exciting as the prospect of actually getting
> one? :) I guess it's just the strategic side of me.
I work along similar lines myself -- and it can be a blast!
> There are a couple DANTES exams that I want to take - I will explore the
> registration process. There is a National Guard base and VA hospital near
> the Minneapolis international airport; I'd be surprised if testing wasn't
> available there.
Ditto here, although bear in mind that you can also get them proctored through
the counseling office at most large four-year or community colleges.
> Which GRE's did you take? I was wondering how good the study guides are
> for the GRE's - maybe I could do the psychology exam.
The Princeton Review for Psychology GRE *rocked*; most of my preparation for
the psych GRE was based around that one book, _A Freudian Primer_, _A Jungian
Primer_, a little book I had on Gestalt, and assorted standard psych
textbooks.
As for the Literature GRE: I just read my tuchas off. The only two
books that were really of mind-blowing help were a) _The Cambridge
Encyclopedia of Literature in English_ and b) _Masterplots_.
Good luck!
John Bear
<mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I assume you are talking about taking 4 GRE's? Has anyone actually done
> that?
It was far more common in the earlier years, when Regents gave 39 semester
units for the GRE, so 3 GREs and one CLEP, for instance, would have been
enough.
It also used to be the case that the GRE was given every weekend in
Washington. I once co-starred (so to speak) in an infomercial, in
Arkansas, along with a National Guard Sergeant, who not only did his
Regents BA with 3 GREs and a CLEP, but did it all in one weekend.
Lawrie Miller
>I assume you are talking about taking 4 GRE's?
>Would I be correct to assume that you have to be a veteran to use
>DANTES and military testing centers?
1)
As is mentioned at least twice in the original text, a BA can be
completed in four weeks, "without recourse to GRE subject exams".
Exactly how that can be achieved is the subject of the article. GRE
subject exams are mentioned for the sake of completeness, but are
not the focus of the text. I'd say at least 95% of the article references
relate to examinations other than GRE subject exams.
2)
i - Persons with no connection whatever to the US military can sit
DANTES exams at select US military installations. One such
site is detailed in the original text.
ii - Non US citizens can sit DANTES exams at select US military
installations.
iii - DANTES exams are also administered at sites other than US
military installations. More information on DANTES exams
and DANTES exam administration, can be had by doing
a Deja News search of alt.education.distance with the keyword
"DANTES".
Larry McQueary
[ snip ]
> > There are a couple DANTES exams that I want to take - I will explore the
> > registration process. There is a National Guard base and VA hospital near
> > the Minneapolis international airport; I'd be surprised if testing wasn't
> > available there.
>
> Ditto here, although bear in mind that you can also get them proctored through
> the counseling office at most large four-year or community colleges.
Agreed - in fact, it's far more likely that you as a civilian will be able to
test in a community college, IMHO. They generally have set CLEP/DANTES testing
days each month. If you're lucky, like me, you'll find a CC that will allow you
to test any time you want :-)
Michael Lomker
> Michael Lomker wrote:
> As is mentioned at least twice in the original text, a BA can be
> completed in four weeks, "without recourse to GRE subject exams".
I posted my question before I read your subsequent message.
> a Deja News search of alt.education.distance with the keyword
> "DANTES".
The reason that I asked is because I ran across a military site on DANTES
that included no mention of civilians taking the exams. I know how to use
search engines...
Regardless of the remote possibility of obtaining a BA in a month, there are
few people who could pass the exams without study (which is what you are
implying). I'm actually having difficulty finding study guides for many of
the subject CLEP exams that I'm interested in (REA has put out a number of
them, but not for every subject).
Larry McQueary
It is quite true that REA only puts out guides for a small number of the subject
exams. You might do well to get the official CLEP guide, which contains
descriptions and sample questions for each of the subect exams.
As for DANTES - I haven't been seeing Lawrie's posts lately (for whatever
strange reason), but the link for DANTES is http://www.chauncey.com/dantes.
Good luck,
Larry
Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:82ggc...@news2.newsguy.com...
John Bear
> I don't know if this question was already answered, but " what GRE score " was
> needed in order to obtain the credits (full, half,..) of the most
> understanding college ?
My recollection is that in the early years, one needed to be in the upper
half of those taking the exam. Now, it is a sliding scale, with 0 to 30
semester units depending on the score achieved (but I don't have the exact
numbers).
Tom Head
> Regardless of the remote possibility of obtaining a BA in a month, there
> are few people who could pass the exams without study (which is what you
> are implying). I'm actually having difficulty finding study guides for
> many of the subject CLEP exams that I'm interested in (REA has put out a
> number of them, but not for every subject).
Without study: No.
But without study guides: certainly. I didn't use study guides for any of my
DANTES examinations; rather, I skimmed some textbooks and other works related
to the field. When you're looking at credit by examination, used bookstores
are your best friend.
Rich Douglas
credit (39 whopping semester hours). As John notes, the amount of credit given has
been lowered to 0-30 s.h. on a sliding scale. This is kind of weird, because most
ETS tests for credit (which, by the way, the GRE Advanced Tests were not designed
for) are all or nothing, with a minimum score attached. Of course, that's based
upon the ACE recommendations; schools are free to award any amount of credit--if
any--in any fashion for whatever scores.
David Owen (in "None of the Above") argues that credit for CLEP tests and the like
are nothing more than scholarship programs designed to save students money by giving
them credit for classes they would otherwise have to take (and pay for). I've
always agreed with this when considering the limits almost all schools place on the
amount of credit a student can earn through testing--often 30 s.h. After all, what
made the 30th credit good and the 31st bad?
Rich Douglas, who earned three Regents degrees almost entirely through ETS testing,
including a B.A. with a concentration in Sociology without ever taking a sociology
class nor reading a single text on the subject (but who did score in the 66th
percentile on the GRE Advanced Test. Go figure.).
Michael Lomker
news:dVQ24.9202$a%4.4...@news.rdc1.tx.home.com...
> As for DANTES - I haven't been seeing Lawrie's posts lately (for whatever
> strange reason), but the link for DANTES is
http://www.chauncey.com/dantes.
Thank you for the link - that's very helpful.
dave_g...@my-deja.com
Steve -
Would you know if online versions of the college
course catalogs are sufficient for the portfolio?
( referencing the URL and including a hard copy of
the relevant info? ) I have been unsuccessful at
finding a library that has much more than a
collection of catalogs for local schools.
Thanks,
Dave Gallucci
In article <38495963...@ix.netcom.com>,
levi...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Dave Gallucci wrote:
>
> > In reading Steve's plan of attack for a
situation very similar to my own,
> > see Steve's URL at
http://levicoff.tripod.com/tesc/tescport.htm ) I
was
> > wondering if TESC is as liberal as Charter
Oak. It seems like the most
> > viable approach for me to take, and I just
want to make sure that I can
> > leverage the most credits for my time invested
in compiling the "challenge
> > portfolio." Suggestions? Steve?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Dave Gallucci
>
> As you are aware, Dave, it all depends on how
extensive your
> experiential base is. If you have a wide array
of knowledge *and* can
> document that knowledge, TESC is *very* liberal
in granting credit on a
> portfolio basis. (In fact, there was a widely
publicized case about a
> year ago about a student who did his entire TESC
degree by portfolio.)
>
> I always felt that the portfolios I did required
minimal effort.
> However, over the years I had spent my time
reading non-fiction instead
> of comic books, watching documentaries instead
of trash talk shows, and
> keeping very tight records of things ranging
from my business activities
> to my various avocations. The more
documentation you have at hand, the
> easier the process.
>
> With all that in mind, your time-versus-credits
ratio will be far more
> efficient by submitting portfolios than by
taking actual courses, doing
> required assignments, studying for and taking
exams, etc.
>
> --
> ,-~~-.___.
> / | ' \
> ( ) 0
> \_/-, ,----'
> ==== //
> / \-'~; /~~~(O)
> / __/~| / |
> =( _____| (_________|
> ------------------------------
> Steve Levicoff
> levi...@ix.netcom.com
> http://levicoff.tripod.com
> ------------------------------
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > a Deja News search of alt.education.distance with the keyword
> > "DANTES".
>
> I know how to use
> search engines...
>
I'm sure you do, but it is worth pointing out that all the questions you
have asked in this thread, prior to, and subsequent to the post above,
have been asked and answered before, and that information is readily
available via Deja News.
>
> Regardless of the remote possibility of obtaining a BA in a month,
Why precisely, is it a remote possibility, Michael? I went to the
trouble of posting an 11 point article detailing why it was far from
being a remote possibility, in response to a post by Steve Levicoff.
You clearly felt the need to respond, yet offer no justification or
rationale to back up your position. What are you doing?
> there are
> few people who could pass the exams without study (which is what you are
> implying).
No, it clearly states in the the text of the article that adequate time for
revision is encompassed in the four week testing period. Total testing
days per week are, 3, 3, 3, 4. That's 13 days out of 28, Michael, and
leaves 15 days for revision.
In any case, how do you know "few people could pass the exams
without study"? I've certainly passed some of these exams with no
study at all, and from private correspondence with other contributors
to this group, it appears I'm not alone in doing so. Exactly how many
of these exams have you taken?
The common experience I've had is that most (90%) of these exams
can be passed letter-grade-A* with modest revision alone. Again,
others have related similar experiences. This may not be the
experience of everyone, but I think new adult learners are best
served by first assuming they can pass these exams in short order,
attempting the example questions in the mock exams, then
calculating their score in the mocks. If they have scored 15%
above their minimum requirement, sit the real exam without further
ado. If they have not attained their minimum requirement + 15%,
analysis of the example test results will indicate where they might
best concentrate their study efforts. In any event, in the first
instance, attempt the mock exam and calculate a score before
committing to study.
Analyses of the predictive value of the various mock exams
(CLEP, DANTES, RCE, GRE) are available, using a Daja
News search, in the records of AED. My experience is that
scaled scores in the official mock exams and the Princeton
Review mock exams, track very well with actual test results,
and the relevant posts are available via Deja News.
> I'm actually having difficulty finding study guides for many of
> the subject CLEP exams that I'm interested in (REA has put out a number of
> them, but not for every subject).
This problem has been aired many times in AED. Try a Deja News
search using "CLEP", in the first instance. There's plenty of
information already out there.
[*Regents College awards letter grades for most common
proficiency exams. Where it did not, calculated percentile
scores averaged above the 90th percentile. These details
based on 40 competency exams comprising 200 semester
hours credit. Most exams taken in batches of 3 per day
for 3 consecutive days, for a total of 9 exams per week.
This last point offered in support of the reposted extract
of the original post, which did not appear in most current
listings, nor in the Deja News history listing. Part of a vast
right-wing conspiracy, no doubt.]
RA BA DEGREE IN FOUR WEEKS...........................
The final part of this post contains a blow by blow account of how
a 120 semester hour RA degree can be completed in four weeks at
minimal cost, and without recourse to GRE subject exams.
SNIP (irrelevant)
SNIP
Steve Levicoff
> Steve -
>
> Would you know if online versions of the college
> course catalogs are sufficient for the portfolio?
> ( referencing the URL and including a hard copy of
> the relevant info? ) I have been unsuccessful at
> finding a library that has much more than a
> collection of catalogs for local schools.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Gallucci
I would imagine that this would be acceptable, and you're correct about
including both the URL and hard copy. However, since online catalogs
did not exist when I did my TESC portfolio, you should call TESC (just
ask for a portfolio advisor) to make sure. The key thing to look for,
of course, are the three-to-four line course descriptions, just like
those in printed catalogs; also remember to make a note of which
department a course is offered under.
Regarding the scarce supply of printed college catalogs, you might try
the guidance office of local high schools. Sometimes they tend to have
more catalogs than local public libraries.
Kevin Stewart
Where is the academic rigor here? How are the Hallmarks of a liberal arts
degree/grad given? This (potential) student is as much a wah (whatever
accreditation is supposed to measure/indicate) as a 'slower DL student or
pokey 4-yr traditional grad.
Say we have Speedy the 1 month wonder v. Dude the DL'er (say, 1 yr B.*.) --
both going up against Turtle the traditionalist, (4 yr). All are from the
same RA college, all have about the same program/major, with the method of
acquisition being the distinguishing aspect. Also in the fray is Mikey the
Mill-made B.*., lacking accreditation & either taking as long as Speedy or
Dude. What sets Speedy off from his fellow alumni? Why is Mikey assumed to
be more poorly educated than Speedy?
And isn't Turtle better educated than a G. Null-type, (if Null's PhD was as
described -- 2 wks in "research", a geologist as prime advisor, etc.)? I
think Leland, A_Mark & YNot have a point. Why should a U degree be respected
when it is, in fact, given for little or nothing more than money and a
ritual?
This '4 wks to a BA program' shows is how much repitition of K-12 a college
gives. (BTW, I have no doubt such a program is *very* possible). And
accreditation indicates nothing, at least at the undergrad level.
Please, if you are going to respond, try to avoid begging the question or ad
hominums.
And thank you for your interest in the interesting!
Kevin
Lawrie Miller wrote in message <384D1147...@home.com>...
snipped
Tom Head
> Say we have Speedy the 1 month wonder v. Dude the DL'er (say, 1 yr B.*.)
> -- both going up against Turtle the traditionalist, (4 yr). All are from
> the same RA college, all have about the same program/major, with the
> method of acquisition being the distinguishing aspect. Also in the fray is
> Mikey the Mill-made B.*., lacking accreditation & either taking as long as
> Speedy or Dude. What sets Speedy off from his fellow alumni? Why is Mikey
> assumed to be more poorly educated than Speedy?
Because we have no way of knowing what Mikey actually did for his degree.
Speedy, on the other hand, had to fulfill certain minimal requirements
enforced by the university and scrutinized by the appropriate accrediting
agency.
Michael Lomker
> I'm sure you do, but it is worth pointing out that all the questions you
> have asked in this thread, prior to, and subsequent to the post above,
> have been asked and answered before, and that information is readily
> available via Deja News.
If you're going to say "RTFM," then you might as well abbreviate. Perhaps
"STFDJ?"
> > there are
> > few people who could pass the exams without study (which is what you are
> > implying).
>
> No, it clearly states in the the text of the article that adequate time
for
> revision is encompassed in the four week testing period. Total testing
Adequate time for the average college student or a remarkable exception to
the rule? I stated that very few people could complete 120 credits without
much more time for study. There is a difference between possibility and
probability.
> to this group, it appears I'm not alone in doing so. Exactly how many
> of these exams have you taken?
Zero. I have my first 2 exams scheduled for the 14th. If they are easy, I
intend to do my entire degree via examination.
I genuinely hope that it is as easy as you suggest - I'd like to do 90
credits over the next 12 months.
Randy
allowable thinking in this NG. You will likely be set upon by the most
dreaded hounds of hell. Prepare thyself, the end is nigh.
In article <s4qd5e...@corp.supernews.com>,
"Kevin Stewart" <ke...@jacksonmi.com> wrote:
> And the school needs to be accredited because. . . ?
>
> Where is the academic rigor here? How are the Hallmarks of a liberal
arts
> degree/grad given? This (potential) student is as much a wah
(whatever
> accreditation is supposed to measure/indicate) as a 'slower DL
student or
> pokey 4-yr traditional grad.
>
> Say we have Speedy the 1 month wonder v. Dude the DL'er (say, 1 yr
B.*.) --
> both going up against Turtle the traditionalist, (4 yr). All are
from the
> same RA college, all have about the same program/major, with the
method of
> acquisition being the distinguishing aspect. Also in the fray is
Mikey the
> Mill-made B.*., lacking accreditation & either taking as long as
Speedy or
> Dude. What sets Speedy off from his fellow alumni? Why is Mikey
assumed to
> be more poorly educated than Speedy?
>
> And isn't Turtle better educated than a G. Null-type, (if Null's PhD
was as
> described -- 2 wks in "research", a geologist as prime advisor,
etc.)? I
> think Leland, A_Mark & YNot have a point. Why should a U degree be
respected
> when it is, in fact, given for little or nothing more than money and a
> ritual?
>
> This '4 wks to a BA program' shows is how much repitition of K-12 a
college
> gives. (BTW, I have no doubt such a program is *very* possible). And
> accreditation indicates nothing, at least at the undergrad level.
>
> Please, if you are going to respond, try to avoid begging the
question or ad
> hominums.
>
> And thank you for your interest in the interesting!
>
> Kevin
>
> Lawrie Miller wrote in message <384D1147...@home.com>...
>
> snipped
>
> >In Two weeks (AS degree) or four weeks (BS degree), you will
> >have completed all degree requirements without prematurely turning
> >gray. Send in the graduation fee and wait for conferral.
> >
> >SNIP
> >
>
>
Larry McQueary
degree from, again? I think I asked this before, but don't remember your
response.
Thanks,
Larry
Larry McQueary
Randy <rand...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:82kmqe$eqh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Larry McQueary
the slightest bit good at standardized tests, you will have no problems. I
highly recommend the GREs, too - most credit bang for your buck.
Larry
-veteran of over 60 testing credits, though spaced out over a much longer
period.
Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:82kcf...@news2.newsguy.com...
> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
Kevin Stewart
Irregular, eh Roge. . . Randy? <G>
Thanks for your...errrrr...whatever!
Kevin
Randy wrote in message <82kmqe$eqh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Kevin, I fear for your well being. You have shredded the very fabric of
>allowable thinking in this NG. You will likely be set upon by the most
>dreaded hounds of hell. Prepare thyself, the end is nigh.
snipped
Kevin Stewart
Kevin
Larry McQueary wrote in message
<4jx34.10514$a%4.4...@news.rdc1.tx.home.com>...
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> > > there are
> > > few people who could pass the exams without study (which is what you are
> > > implying).
> >
> > No, it clearly states in the the text of the article that adequate time
> for
> > revision is encompassed in the four week testing period. Total testing
>
> Adequate time for the average college student or a remarkable exception to
> the rule?
Adequate time for those prepared through life's experiences. Those
embarking on DL undergraduate degrees tend to be mature adults,
not the average college student 18+.
> I stated that very few people could complete 120 credits without
> much more time for study. There is a difference between possibility and
> probability.
No, you stated that "few people could pass the exams without study".
Once again, within the four week schedule, 15 days are available for
revision. Revision of knowledge gained over the course of a life.
>
>
> > Exactly how many
> > of these exams have you taken?
>
> Zero.
>
So, you have no direct experience of the exams, and from your
questions in prior posts, it's clear you had not examined sample
exam materials (CLEP official guide, DANTES exam sheets etc.).
What then, was the basis for your assertion that few people could
pass the exams without (some indeterminate amount of) study,
excluding revision? If it wasn't based on personal experience of
the exams, or on a detailed survey of sample exam questions, how
did you reach the conclusion that the exams could not be passed
with revision alone? Where does your opinion come from, Michael?
The whole point of the "BA degree in four weeks" article, was to
try to encourage adult learners to consider the competency
examination approach to earning a degree, and to counter Steve's
inaccurate negative waffle. If a learner does not think she can
complete a degree in four weeks, perhaps she can in eight weeks,
or sixteen weeks, or in a year. Credit by examination is a cheap
and efficient way of gaining a degree. It is also the quickest
method.
In the end, it does not matter how the undergraduate degree is
completed, only that it is actually completed. For most adult
learners, it is likely that a combination of two or more of prior
credit, competency exams and portfolio credit, will be the way
to go. If people understand that gaining a degree from scratch
by examination in four weeks is a real possibility, they may be
more willing to consider examination as a first choice in meeting
their individual needs ("If it can be done in four weeks, how
hard can it be?"). This may lead them to try the example tests.
Many will be surprised how well they score, I suspect.
Finally, how many adult learners could complete a BA in four
weeks? If you put a gun to my head and forced an answer, I'd
estimate 15%. In eight weeks, 25%. In six months, 45%.
That is, one in eight adult learners could complete a BA by
examination in under a month, one quarter could complete
their degree in under two months, and nearly one half, starting
January 2000, could finish before summer is in.
Kevin Stewart
students). I wonder how many "mature adults" know about the options to
traditional ed. or would have the confidence to "risk" testing or portfolio.
Anybody know the actual average age of a traditional, (on-campus, 2 or 4 yr
program), college student? I think it's over 18.
Kevin
Lawrie Miller wrote in message <384F8944...@home.com>...
snipped
Those
>embarking on DL undergraduate degrees tend to be mature adults,
>not the average college student 18+.
snipped
Michael Lomker
> So, you have no direct experience of the exams, and from your
> questions in prior posts, it's clear you had not examined sample
> exam materials (CLEP official guide, DANTES exam sheets etc.).
I have at a half-dozen CLEP books right now and more on the way. Amazon
loves me.
> What then, was the basis for your assertion that few people could
> pass the exams without (some indeterminate amount of) study,
> excluding revision?
Name someone that has done it. We have some remarkable individuals on this
forum and, to my knowledge, they all took longer to accomplish the feat.
> with revision alone? Where does your opinion come from, Michael?
I don't mind if we disagree regarding the practicality of your one-month
degree plan. I agree with your thesis: I'm going to obtain a degree via
examination.
> hard can it be?"). This may lead them to try the example tests.
> Many will be surprised how well they score, I suspect.
I actually think this could be a good subject for a book. We now have that
woman who advocates traditional programs for adults....perhaps someone
should write a book about TESC, Regents, et al. just to vex her? :)
>If you put a gun to my head and forced an answer, I'd
>estimate 15%. In eight weeks, 25%. In six months, 45%.
I think the greatest challenge with this approach is locating a testing
center with flexible scheduling. I've only found one open testing center
that offers testing more than monthly. That school only allows 2 tests per
session (a total of 4 per month). I'm going to continue searching for more
locations today (many won't even return phone inquiries...gotta love
colleges).
Larry McQueary
>
> I actually think this could be a good subject for a book. We now have that
> woman who advocates traditional programs for adults....perhaps someone
> should write a book about TESC, Regents, et al. just to vex her? :)
Hey - GREAT idea! I've got a couple of ideas for the title... how about...
hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
Anybody? Anybody?
:-)
> >If you put a gun to my head and forced an answer, I'd
> >estimate 15%. In eight weeks, 25%. In six months, 45%.
>
> I think the greatest challenge with this approach is locating a testing
> center with flexible scheduling. I've only found one open testing center
> that offers testing more than monthly. That school only allows 2 tests per
> session (a total of 4 per month). I'm going to continue searching for more
> locations today (many won't even return phone inquiries...gotta love
> colleges).
Try your local University of Phoenix location, if there is one. Most campuses
offer open testing (i.e. to non-students) and the one by me does testing every
Thursday and Saturday.
Larry
Lawrie Miller
important. Many mature students at community colleges take single
courses or are engaged in certificate courses. The group targeted by
the article are working adults (including those working at home, raising
a family) who cannot contemplate full time education, or who otherwise
have limited resources of time and/or money available to devote to
furthering their education.
Your points about confidence and taking the risk, go to the heart of
the matter. The purpose of the BA-in-four-weeks article was to
demonstrate what is possible and to emphasize that credit by
examination need not be thought horrendously difficult or impossible.
Steve Levicoff's web page detailing the process of credit by portfolio
submission, serves potential new adult learners very well indeed. It
is positive, detailed, and written by someone who has used the method
and knows what they are talking about. However, it is clear that when
evaluating proficiency examinations as a viable alternative, Steve has no
idea what he is talking about. The article on competency examinations
was designed to redress that balance and correct the many and varied
inaccuracies in his posts.
Kevin Stewart
Thanks
Kevin
Lawrie Miller wrote in message <385044F1...@home.com>...
>
snipped
>I have gone the 9-exam-per-week route, many times, but only
>discovered it late in the day. It was only after completing 40
>competency examinations, that I reviewed my experience and
>concluded it was not only possible, but probable, with a very
>high degree of certainty, that I could have put those examination
>weeks back to back, and completed 120 semester hours in four
>weeks straight. I should emphasize that I am in no way "remarkable".
snipped
Michael Lomker
> Hey - GREAT idea! I've got a couple of ideas for the title... how
about...
> hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
Is Joe Average willing to read that book from cover to cover and spend
months, here in a newsgroup, to devise a strategy for their educations?
Let's face it, the attendees here are among the devout.
What I'm suggesting is a concise action plan that focused exclusively on
obtaining a regionally accredited degree via examination and portfolio
credit. Dr. Bear's guide contains everything but the kitchen sink...with
more focus on diploma mills than the average person would care to learn.
I personally have spent a lot of time acquainting business contacts and
coworkers with the educational resources available. It'd more convenient
to refer them to a book.
John Bear
<mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Dr. Bear's guide contains everything but the kitchen sink...with
> more focus on diploma mills than the average person would care to learn.
Oh, really? 24 pages in a 410-page book: 4 1/2 pages of text, and 19 1/2
pages of descriptions of the mills. I make that 5.8%.
In any event, I doubt if anyone except my mother has read Bears' Guide
cover to cover. It's a reference book. And if a reader can find just the
right program in 3 minutes or a day and a half or whatever, there are an
awful lot who seem to think that was worth an investment equivalent to
about 7 minutes of the average lawyer's time. More than a few put in those
3+ minutes in a bookstore (I lurk. I watch.) or libraries. If I ever start
earning royalties on 'my' books again, I may get slightly annoyed again.
Such is life.
--
John Bear, who sells Bears' Guide for 1/3 off ($20; checks
only) or bookpricer.com for best on-line prices.
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:384F8944...@home.com...
> > So, you have no direct experience of the exams, and from your
> > questions in prior posts, it's clear you had not examined sample
> > exam materials (CLEP official guide, DANTES exam sheets etc.).
>
> I have at a half-dozen CLEP books right now and more on the way. Amazon
> loves me.
I've no doubt you have those materials now, but it is clear from your
prior questions to the group that you did not have example exam
materials when you made your assertion.
>
>
> > What then, was the basis for your assertion that few people could
> > pass the exams without (some indeterminate amount of) study,
> > excluding revision?
>
>
> Name someone that has done it. We have some remarkable individuals on this
> forum and, to my knowledge, they all took longer to accomplish the feat.
Poor form to evade the question by asking another question, Michael.
In any case, could I direct you to the first few pages of John Bear's
book?
I have gone the 9-exam-per-week route, many times, but only
discovered it late in the day. It was only after completing 40
competency examinations, that I reviewed my experience and
concluded it was not only possible, but probable, with a very
high degree of certainty, that I could have put those examination
weeks back to back, and completed 120 semester hours in four
weeks straight. I should emphasize that I am in no way "remarkable".
I'd estimate at least 30 of the 40 examinations I've taken could have
been successfully completed without any study at all, *and* without
any revision of any kind whatsoever. This statement based on my
scores in the mock exams. These were sufficiently above the
minimum required pass level to guarantee a pass in the actual exams.
I did revise for most of my exams, but only because I wanted an "A"
or a score above the 90th percentile, in all cases. Had I been content
with a "C" or a mediocre percentile ranking, I'd have needed to revise
in about ten of the forty examinations. Generally, for the 9-exams-per-
week stints, I'd quit work on the Friday, study Saturday and Sunday,
sit the exams, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of the following
week, then return to work Thursday, Friday, and add a Saturday to
please my boss who had been good enough to give me the time off
to sit the exams in the first place.
Had I to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I'd take a
month off and complete the whole thing in one go. That Michael,
is the benefit of experience. And once again let me emphasize, I
am a completely unremarkable, common 5/8, within one standard
deviation of average ability, normal, working stiff.
>
>
> > with revision alone? Where does your opinion come from, Michael?
>
> I don't mind if we disagree regarding the practicality of your one-month
> degree plan. I agree with your thesis: I'm going to obtain a degree via
> examination.
Best of luck to you. The single biggest hurdle is believing it is possible,
and that *you* can do it. You *can* do it, if not in four weeks, then in
four months or in a year. Point is to go do it, and now is a very good
time to do so.
>
>
> > hard can it be?"). This may lead them to try the example tests.
> > Many will be surprised how well they score, I suspect.
>
> I actually think this could be a good subject for a book. We now have that
> woman who advocates traditional programs for adults....perhaps someone
> should write a book about TESC, Regents, et al. just to vex her? :)
Thought had occurred to me.
>
>
> >If you put a gun to my head and forced an answer, I'd
> >estimate 15%. In eight weeks, 25%. In six months, 45%.
>
> I think the greatest challenge with this approach is locating a testing
> center with flexible scheduling. I've only found one open testing center
> that offers testing more than monthly. That school only allows 2 tests per
> session (a total of 4 per month). I'm going to continue searching for more
> locations today (many won't even return phone inquiries...gotta love
> colleges).
Yes, this part is harder than passing the exams. A lot of useful detail has
been posted here in the past. Vandenberg Air Force Base near Lompoc
CA will allow multiple tests daily of CLEP and DANTES exams. I
posted details, available via Deja News. Larry posted details of a CC in
Colorado that apparently allowed GRE subject exams on a daily basis,
in addition to CLEP and DANTES, that would be truly worth a trip to
Colorado to do. Could really shorten testing time if confirmed genuine.
See Larry.
Larry McQueary
[ snip ]
> Yes, this part is harder than passing the exams. A lot of useful detail has
> been posted here in the past. Vandenberg Air Force Base near Lompoc
> CA will allow multiple tests daily of CLEP and DANTES exams. I
> posted details, available via Deja News. Larry posted details of a CC in
> Colorado that apparently allowed GRE subject exams on a daily basis,
> in addition to CLEP and DANTES, that would be truly worth a trip to
> Colorado to do. Could really shorten testing time if confirmed genuine.
> See Larry.
See Larry.
See Larry run.
See Larry run and quickly add the following:
I've had success at two different things.
1. My county's main community college (Arapahoe Community College) will do
testing 4.5 days out of 5, M-F, and will generally allow you to take as many
CLEP and DANTES exams as you think you can handle. They are all pencil and
paper. They will also proctor just about any other exam, including Regents,
which they have paperwork for. You don't have to be a student. So, check with
your largest area community college.
2. University of Phoenix's main Colorado campus, in Lone Tree, CO, will allow
CLEP testing via computer (with instant scoring - dead sexy) every Thursday
afternoon and Saturday mornings. They have most of them on file. You do not
have to be a student. Check your local UOP campus for more info. Not every
campus (as Mike Barger has noted in past) will necessarily allow this.
I don't know of a place where one can take the subject GREs at will. Last I
checked (and I truly HOPE to be wrong on this), you may only take the subject
GREs via pencil and paper, and therefore can only take them at authorized
centers on the national test dates, which I believe are either quarterly or
semi-annually (?)
If you can't find anything in your area, I agree with Lawrie - coming to Denver
may not be a bad idea, if you can schedule a week of testing in advance, the
same week of (or before) the national test dates for the GRE. However, I have
to imagine that Denver is not Test Mecca, but merely that I've been lucky -
there are likely several other major cities in which you can find similar test
centers.
Good luck!
Larry
Lawrie Miller
he includes at least one documented example where the candidate
completed all requirements in very, very short order.
The particular used is no longer available though, so far as I know.
The devil is in the detail, and there is a need for an up to date guide
that would document, step by step, the procedure by which a degree
could be earned in quick time via competency examinations. This should
include, details of suitable institutions and specific programs which map to
"testing out", contact information for suitable testing sites, costs of testing
and other costs of the degree, specification of required materials (sample
tests, exam booklets, exam books, recommended course books), which
tests to take first, which to take last, which test most learners would find
easiest, which are the likely to be found most difficult, sample degree
templates that use competency examinations exclusively, how to integrate
existing academic credit into the "testing out" strategy, one or two case
studies of real learners who have gone this route.
The book should be called "Accredited BA in four weeks to six months"
Larry McQueary wrote:
> Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:82ocs...@news2.newsguy.com...
> > "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:384F8944...@home.com...
>
> >
> > I actually think this could be a good subject for a book.
>
> Hey - GREAT idea! I've got a couple of ideas for the title... how about...
> hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
>
> Anybody? Anybody?
>
> :-)
>
Larry McQueary
Larry
Lawrie Miller <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38504D44...@home.com...
> Indeed, John Bear's book details competency-exam based degrees, and
> he includes at least one documented example where the candidate
> completed all requirements in very, very short order.
>
> The particular used is no longer available though, so far as I know.
> The devil is in the detail, and there is a need for an up to date guide
> that would document, step by step, the procedure by which a degree
> could be earned in quick time via competency examinations. This should
> include, details of suitable institutions and specific programs which map to
> "testing out", contact information for suitable testing sites, costs of
testing
> and other costs of the degree, specification of required materials (sample
> tests, exam booklets, exam books, recommended course books), which
> tests to take first, which to take last, which test most learners would find
> easiest, which are the likely to be found most difficult, sample degree
> templates that use competency examinations exclusively, how to integrate
> existing academic credit into the "testing out" strategy, one or two case
> studies of real learners who have gone this route.
>
> The book should be called "Accredited BA in four weeks to six months"
>
>
> Larry McQueary wrote:
>
> > Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> > news:82ocs...@news2.newsguy.com...
> > > "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
Lawrie Miller
Kevin Stewart wrote:
> What are your degrees in?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kevin
>
BS Political Science (concentration)
BS General Business
My prior background had been entirely in quantitative disciplines and
wanted to try something different.
Lawrie Miller
Larry McQueary wrote:
> All you need now is a publisher ;-)
>
I wish :-)
Larry McQueary
> "Larry McQueary" <Termin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NJQ34.11194$a%4.4...@news.rdc1.tx.home.com...
> about...
> > hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
>
> months, here in a newsgroup, to devise a strategy for their educations?
> Let's face it, the attendees here are among the devout.
I think anyone keen enough to want to do something like test out of a whole
degree might be so inclined, yes :-)
> What I'm suggesting is a concise action plan that focused exclusively on
> obtaining a regionally accredited degree via examination and portfolio
> credit. Dr. Bear's guide contains everything but the kitchen sink...with
> more focus on diploma mills than the average person would care to learn.
>
> I personally have spent a lot of time acquainting business contacts and
> coworkers with the educational resources available. It'd more convenient
> to refer them to a book.
Well, first of all - I was just busting your -- well, you know -- so RELAX, but
in the broader context you mention in this last paragraph... what *is* wrong
with Bears' Guide? If you don't like his book, the there's always Marcie
Thorson's "Campus Free College Degrees", which is very similar to Bears' Guide,
but with fewer schools (listed in more detail), and very little focus on degree
mills at all.
There IS no silver bullet, and I think Bears' Guide and Thorson's book are about
the best general treatments that there are.
What would you suggest?
Larry
Larry McQueary
>
> Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:82pqe...@news1.newsguy.com...
> > "Larry McQueary" <Termin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:NJQ34.11194$a%4.4...@news.rdc1.tx.home.com...
> > > Hey - GREAT idea! I've got a couple of ideas for the title... how
> > about...
> > > hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
> >
> > Is Joe Average willing to read that book from cover to cover and spend
> > months, here in a newsgroup, to devise a strategy for their educations?
> > Let's face it, the attendees here are among the devout.
>
> I think anyone keen enough to want to do something like test out of a whole
> degree might be so inclined, yes :-)
Actually - let me qualify that. I think coming to this newsgroup is optional -
but for anyone in this day and age to NOT seek out advice on the Internet? Free
advice? That's just plain silly, IMHO.
It need not take months - and Bears' Guide presents ALL the options - not just
the ones frequently presented in this newsgroup. One could easily devise a plan
from that book alone - in retrospect, I know I could have, without doubt.
Unfortunately, I was near the end of my path when I happened on this newsgroup.
Had I owned a copy of Bears' Guide a few years ago, I would have been much
farther along by now.
Lawrie Miller
John Bear wrote:
>
> In any event, I doubt if anyone except my mother has read Bears' Guide
> cover to cover.
Um, I've read it cover to cover, more than once.
Bye son, you're such a little coochy coo coo, itsy bitsy ba ba.
Tom Head
> In any event, I doubt if anyone except my mother has read Bears' Guide
> cover to cover. It's a reference book. And if a reader can find just the
> right program in 3 minutes or a day and a half or whatever, there are an
> awful lot who seem to think that was worth an investment equivalent to
> about 7 minutes of the average lawyer's time. More than a few put in those
> 3+ minutes in a bookstore (I lurk. I watch.) or libraries. If I ever start
> earning royalties on 'my' books again, I may get slightly annoyed again.
> Such is life.
Actually, I seem to remember sitting down and reading the 13th edition in
about 90 minutes when I first received it (before "zeroing in" on anything
specific). It's not a bad policy, if you're trying to educate yourself on the
general breadth and depth of things.
Michael Lomker
news:john-09129...@prope23.ppp.lmi.net...
> 3+ minutes in a bookstore (I lurk. I watch.) or libraries. If I ever start
> earning royalties on 'my' books again, I may get slightly annoyed again.
I love your book. I have read it cover to cover...and then reread a few
sections afterward. It is/was perfect for me because I find accreditation,
degree mills, and everything that you discussed to be fascinating. I
realize that most of your book is actually a list of schools.
The point of my post is that it is more of a comprehensive work rather than
a step-by-step guide. Please excuse my penchant for exaggeration. :)
Michael Lomker
"Dan" <snel...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:nDg44.868$uN2....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> It will need to be a liberal arts but I still plan on doing it, and then
> going on to a masters.
Perhaps that begs another question: If people did start testing out of
degrees in droves, would the accreditation bodies put a stop to it? I know
that Regents made getting credit for GRE exams more difficult a few years
back...will there be another round?
Dan
I may not be "Joe average" but that is EXACTLY what I am doing! read the
book, When I have the $ ready I plan on doing a portfolio and test the
rest.....I have about 50 specialized credits above my AA degree from
Fullerton College. Because of the specialization {Orthotics and Prosthetics}
It will need to be a liberal arts but I still plan on doing it, and then
going on to a masters.
Dan Snelson
Michael Lomker wrote in message <82pqe...@news1.newsguy.com>...
snip here and there
Lawrie Miller
calling his firstborn "ugly", engendering a visceral retaliatory response.
Perhaps the best approach to the question of focused guides would
be to produce a series of slender tomes, each targeting a specific
degree specialization: Accredited BA in......... by Examination.
Additional offerings in the series could include, "Accredited
Business Degree by Portfolio Submission", "The Portfolio
Submission Work Book".
Then there would be the FastTrack series, "BA in Four Weeks".
"BA in Four Weeks: Psychology", "BA in Four Weeks: English",
and on. I see a whole publishing empire here, and someone
becoming a legend in their own lunchtime. . . . . .
Michael Lomker wrote: about Bear's Guide
albertoc...@my-deja.com
"Larry McQueary" <Termin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, first of all - I was just busting your -- well, you know -- so RELAX, but
> in the broader context you mention in this last paragraph... what *is* wrong
> with Bears' Guide? If you don't like his book, the there's always Marcie
> Thorson's "Campus Free College Degrees", which is very similar to Bears' Guide,
> but with fewer schools (listed in more detail), and very little focus on degree
> mills at all.
>
> There IS no silver bullet, and I think Bears' Guide and Thorson's book are about
> the best general treatments that there are.
>
>
Larry,
One of the great advantages of Bears' Guide is the inclusion of foreign
degrees. By the same token, one of the great advantages of Thorson's book is
the inclusion of associate degrees. Consequently, I find both to be very
appealing to me.
Fraternally,
Al Caballero
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dan
their degrees. Please note I said FINISH. With an AA degree plus graduate
classes in my area of specialization I am not far off. Isn’t that what
distance education is about? At the time, there were not a lot of Bachelor
degrees available in Prosthetics. Heck there still are not a lot of them. I
sure am not in a position to return to a traditional school.
Dan
--
Dan
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Michael Lomker wrote in message <82s67...@news2.newsguy.com>...
>
>"Dan" <snel...@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:nDg44.868$uN2....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
>> It will need to be a liberal arts but I still plan on doing it, and then
>> going on to a masters.
>
Marci...@msn.com
jo...@ursa.net (John Bear) wrote:
> In any event, I doubt if anyone except my mother has read Bears' Guide
> cover to cover. It's a reference book. htly annoyed again.
> Such is life.
Hello, Dr. Bear:
Isasmuch as I *earned* my copy of Bears' Guide (by virtue of winning
the very first trivia challenge), I can state that I *have* read it
from cover to cover! What? Did you think I'd just ditch my prize?? <G>
Kind regards,
(from one who happens to enjoy reading reference material just for the
fun of it!)
--
Marci...@msn.com
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
but a habit."
John Bear
> If people did start testing out of
> degrees in droves, would the accreditation bodies put a stop to it?
It's a good question. Surely the more bigger such a practice gets, the
more scrutiny it will attract, and the practitioners will need to pay
closer attention to what they are doing, prepared to defend it. We surely
have seen this with Regentsgoing from 39 semester units for the GRE to 30
to a sliding scale based on performance. I note that Charter Oak now gives
a maximum of 24 units, and only for some of the GREs.
Still, I'm reminded of the time in Catch-22 when Major Major Major
discovers Yossarian doing something outrageous and says, "But what if
EVERYONE did that?" Yossarian's answer: "Then I'd be crazy not to."
Lawrie Miller
strong case could be made for toughening things up. However, the
same argument could be made in the case of course based credit. I
think the fundamental problem is that the relative level of attainment
required by many US degree granting institutions is not very high.
So, maybe we're addressing the wrong issue.
I do not know of any evidence that indicates those gaining a degree
by examination, subsequently perform less well in graduate study
than those who gained their undergraduate degree in whole or in part
by course based study. If it is the case that these proficiency exams
adequately measure ability at the prescribed level, then, regardless of
how many choose this route, there would be no logical justification
in denying learners the opportunity to pursue a degree using the
method.
As for the GRE exams, it is my opinion that scoring above the 80th
percentile is not a trivial matter. My original article on the four week
BA did not suggest (at least, I didn't mean to suggest) that this
score could easily be attained. What is true, I think, is that a useful
score, yielding substantial credit is fairly easy to attain (say 60th
percentile, which yields 18 credits at Regents College). Getting
all 30 credits aint so easy.
Could it be made a bit more rigorous still? Yes, probably. I think,
based on my experience (others may differ), that to achieve a
a score above the 90th percentile, you really do have to know what
you are doing. So, I think that if, rather than a sliding scale, you
had an all or nothing pass mark above the 90th percentile, and
awarded 30 credits there, with no credit given for lower scores,
few could argue you were being overly generous. Remember that
the peer group you're competing against in the GRE exams are
normally graduates in the examined discipline, or in a closely
related field, so being in the top 10% of the class in that company
is pretty good. Note also that since it is percentile ranking that
determines a pass or fail, it really *is* a competition (obviously).
Kevin Stewart
Lawrie Miller wrote in message <3852BA0B...@home.net>...
snipped
>I think the fundamental problem is that the relative level of attainment
>required by many US degree granting institutions is not very high.
>So, maybe we're addressing the wrong issue.
Y E S ! ! ! ! ! YES! YES! YES!
yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes!!!!!
BOING & BINGO, Bub!!!!
snipped
>If it is the case that these proficiency exams
>adequately measure ability at the prescribed level, then, regardless of
>how many choose this route, there would be no logical justification
>in denying learners the opportunity to pursue a degree using the
>method.
Boy, are you good! How'd you get to be soooooooo smart? <G>
Kevin
I think I like you, too!
snipped
JMcAulay
Larry McQueary wrote in message ...
>> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:384F8944...@home.com...
>
>>
that
>> woman who advocates traditional programs for adults....perhaps someone
>> should write a book about TESC, Regents, et al. just to vex her? :)
>
>
>hmmmm... Bears' Guide to Earning Degrees Nontraditionally?
>
Not picking on you, Larry, just thought I'd jump into this thread somewhere.
First of all, I have had most of a ms for a book centered on DE bachelor's
degrees for a few years; it has never been completed. Why? Because
after having started it, I became convinced that it would have such limited
interest. The Bears' book has so much stuff within that it might be
daunting
for some readers; but I was preparing a small one primarily comparing
and and commenting re Regents, COSC, and TESC. Then I observed
that something like ten enquirers per year hit this newsgroup with just such
questions, and most of those already have their minds made up, anyway.
Also one more mention that I transferred six credits into Regents and
completed all degree requirements within a couple of months. Biggest
difficulty was (and it's MUCH worse now) that you just can't take Subject
GREs and other tests fast enough. And for my money, anyone who takes
any such exams with no preparation at all is both a) far smarter than I, and
b) far dumber than I. And for those who are so interested in costs, the
whole
thing ran me about $1,100 plus car expenses, lunch, postage, etc.
And don't forget, it takes a finite time to get the score back once a test
has
been taken. The "one month" concept might be doable, but it surely would
not be extremely practical.
Regards,
John
JMcAulay
Larry McQueary posted, in part:
>I don't know of a place where one can take the subject GREs at will. Last
I
>checked (and I truly HOPE to be wrong on this), you may only take the
subject
>GREs via pencil and paper, and therefore can only take them at authorized
>centers on the national test dates, which I believe are either quarterly or
>semi-annually (?)
Used to be, back when I "did it," that ETS centers offered "Special
Administration" of the GREs on a WEEKLY basis in the Summer.
So one could be taken each week (no doubling up on Subject GREs).
No more. Now, it's just the standard administrations, and I'm no
longer watching 'em closely enough to be able to tell anyone if
that's quarterly or whatever. Bloody shame.
Do not forget that the DANTES tests can be taken at any military
installation. So if you can gain access to one, you can pile on the
DANTES exams as fast as you can take 'em.
Oh, by the way, anyone have any ideas as to how many people
actually test out of a bachelor's? Or, better yet, how many even
WANT to? My unscientific assessment, based on the number of
people I've encouraged to do just that, is that the answer happens
to be "not one whole hell of a lot."
Regards,
John
Michael Lomker
news:38542...@news.qnet.com...
> completed all degree requirements within a couple of months. Biggest
> difficulty was (and it's MUCH worse now) that you just can't take Subject
> GREs and other tests fast enough. And for my money, anyone who takes
Absolutely. I just took my first two CLEPS this morning...piece of cake. I
think for purposed of getting time off from work, reveiewing, and
scheduling....I'm planning a pace of 4 per month. That's still a BS inside
of a year...a fine accomplishment in my mind. I'm planning to do a GRE in
sociology as a part of it, but they are only offered 3 times per year unless
you're in the military.
> thing ran me about $1,100 plus car expenses, lunch, postage, etc.
I'll come out at over $10k because I wasted my first year at the U of
Phoenix. :-(
> been taken. The "one month" concept might be doable, but it surely would
> not be extremely practical.
True, but Lawrie does illustrate a point; I think doing it in a year is
quite practical.
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> Absolutely. I just took my first two CLEPS this morning...piece of cake.
Well, I shouldn't tell you I told you so, but I told you so. :-)
> I
> think for purposed of getting time off from work, reveiewing, and
> scheduling....I'm planning a pace of 4 per month. That's still a BS inside
> of a year...a fine accomplishment in my mind.
Yes, indeed it is. Congratulations on completing your first exam diet.
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> "JMcAulay" <jo...@mcaulay.net> wrote in message
> news:38542...@news.qnet.com...
>> The "one month" concept might be doable, but it surely would
> > not be extremely practical.
>
> True, but Lawrie does illustrate a point; I think doing it in a year is
> quite practical.
Oh ye of little faith.
The main point was indeed to get those who would benefit most from the
method, interested in the idea of using competency exams to meet their
goal of achieving an accredited bachelor's degree. Nevertheless, the
proposition of completing all the requirements for a BA from scratch in
one month is entirely practical, and a step by step explanation of why
it is practical and how it could be done, was published in the original
article of this thread and in subsequent articles. The concept was an
accredited BA in one month *without recourse to GRE subject exams*, and
the first sentence of the first paragraph of that first article so
states.
While GRE subject exams are a useful option (and indeed, are covered
in the article "BA in four weeks 4th year), they are not an essential
ingredient of The Plan. No one who has criticized the concept of the
four-week-degree has challenged the facts detailed in the original
11-point article. What we have heard is that it is impractical
"because it is". That wont cut it. The only one to offer anything like
a reasoned challenge to the idea was Steve Levicoff, though his
argument fell apart due to myriad inaccuracies. Nevertheless, others
might well benefit their case by following in the spirit of his example.
Michael Lomker
news:3856ACBC...@home.net...
> Well, I shouldn't tell you I told you so, but I told you so. :-)
I _did_ actually study for them. However, I was pleasantly surprised that
there aren't any trick questions. I'm accustomed to computer-industry
certification exams - they customarily use vague or misleading wording to
trick you.
Has anyone seen this book before? I ran across it online today:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1573920010/backtocollege/102-1795696-
0948850
Doe anyone know what kind of credit ACE allows for the ICCP exams? I'm
trying to figure out how I'll complete the concentration for my MIS program.
Dave Gallucci
I saved your post about "completing the freshmen year in one week". Did you
happen to post sophomore, junior and senior "weeks" as well? I couldn't find
them.
TIA,
Dave Gallucci
Lawrie Miller <osi...@home.net> wrote in message
news:3856ACBC...@home.net...
>
>
> Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> >
> > Absolutely. I just took my first two CLEPS this morning...piece of
cake.
>
>
> Well, I shouldn't tell you I told you so, but I told you so. :-)
>
>
> > I
Michael Lomker
> Oh ye of little faith.
> might well benefit their case by following in the spirit of his example.
As I've stated in the past:
1. Very few testing centers will allow you to take that many exams in a
month.
2. Your outline presumes taking a month off from work (study time).
I don't contest that your plan is *possible* the problem is your insistence
that it is *practical*. By definition, your theory is speculative - I don't
know of anyone that has done it.
prac暗i搾al (prkt-kl) adj. - Level-headed, efficient, and unspeculative.
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=practical
Lawrie Miller
DANTES and RCE exams are wholesome by comparison.
Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> "Lawrie Miller" <osi...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:3856ACBC...@home.net...
> > Well, I shouldn't tell you I told you so, but I told you so. :-)
>
Tom Head
> > Oh ye of little faith.
> > argument fell apart due to myriad inaccuracies. Nevertheless, others
> > might well benefit their case by following in the spirit of his example.
>
> As I've stated in the past:
>
> 1. Very few testing centers will allow you to take that many exams in a
> month.
Now, this I disagree with. The local community college had no formal limit on
the number of examinations I could take.
Besides: You can always use multiple testing sites.
> 2. Your outline presumes taking a month off from work (study time).
Not if you already know your material (and presumably have a photographic
memory).
> I don't contest that your plan is *possible* the problem is your
> insistence that it is *practical*. By definition, your theory is
> speculative - I don't know of anyone that has done it.
On this point we actually agree. It took me 18 months to pull it off, and I
was studying intensively all the while -- but we're talking about me at 15-17.
Someone who is over 30, already knows the material, and is unusually bright
and unusually lucky on tests could probably pull this off. (Matt Damon's
character in "Good Will Hunting," the "smart" Charly in "Flowers for
Algernon," or John Travolta's character in "Phenomenon" could do it. Most of
us mortals probably couldn't.)
Lawrie Miller
exams under the title "BA in four weeks, 4th year". This should be
readily available to you in your current AED listing.
Two other articles will follow, imaginatively entitled,
"BA in four weeks, 2nd year",
"BA in four weeks, 3rd year".
I addition, another article is required detailing how one can fulfill
the concentration/major requirements for specific degrees programs
without using GRE subject exams, and how remaining upper division
degree credit requirements can be earned by those who elect to employ
the GRE option to meet concentration requirements.
In the 2nd year and 3rd year articles I wanted to identify which exams
to take; which are the easiest and which are the most difficult; to
demonstrate by example, how pertinent existing knowledge can be
identified and honed by revision; how related exams can be clustered
to maximize study/revision efficiency; Which books to use; how to
gauge your readiness to sit the actual exams.
Rather a lot to fit in two or three newsgroup postings, so it may be
that this series will be larger than I'd originally planned. The
difficulty is not in providing the information or verifying its
accuracy, but in ensuring the overall "package" is sufficiently
coherent to be useful to the average punter. In the end I think
easily digested chunks the best approach. Expect posts covering the
basics of completing 2nd and 3rd years, in relatively short order.
Lawrie Miller
Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> As I've stated in the past:
>
> 1. Very few testing centers will allow you to take that many exams in a
> month.
And this issue was addressed in the original article - point number 5:
"
[Few test stations will let you do it]
5) Enough test stations will allow you to take more than two exams per
day. US military bases will allow you to take as many exams per day
as you can cram into their test station's hours of operation. Larry
has posted other examples. All Sylvan centers (RCE exams) will
allow three 3-hour exams per day Monday through Friday."
> 2. Your outline presumes taking a month off from work (study time).
Well, for such a potentially life-altering goal, would it be
unreasonable to use accumulated vacation and/or sick time to
to bring it to fruition?
I said requirements for a BA could be fulfilled in four weeks,
but obviously your going to have to make some effort to achieve
the goal, Michael, like finding a suitable test site and arranging
time off to take the tests. Come on.
>
> I don't contest that your plan is *possible* the problem is your insistence
> that it is *practical*. By definition, your theory is speculative - I don't
> know of anyone that has done it.
>
> prac暗i搾al (prkt-kl) adj. - Level-headed, efficient, and unspeculative.
> http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=practical
Michael, you came to this newsgroup a very short time ago asking
basic questions about these exams. You had clearly never seen an
exam question. You decided on no factual evidence or experience
at all, that the four week BA was virtually impossible. Yesterday
you sat your first two exams, and later described them as "a piece
of cake", not exactly an overwhelming endorsement of your position.
You charge that the four week BA is not practical, yet all you can
offer in evidence, is that one would need to take time off to sit
the exams and revise, and that it might be difficult to find an
exam site. Well, yes, you will need to take time off, and it can
be difficult to find an exam site, but I have done it, and so
have others. It's quite feasible and practical.
You seem to have come to this debate prejudiced in the belief that
the four week BA could not reasonably be achieved. I suspect your
own initial examination experience yesterday does not sit well
with your expressed views, but you are now so locked into your
position that even your own (admittedly limited) experience will
not move you. I've gone over this before but for the benefit of
potential new adult learners who may read this, it bears
repeating.
. . . . . . .
I have gone the 9-exam-per-week route a few times, but
discovered it late in the day. It was only after completing 40
competency examinations, that I reviewed my experience and
concluded it was not only possible, but probable, with a very
high degree of certainty, that I could have put those examination
weeks back to back, and completed 120 semester hours in four
weeks straight. I should emphasize that I am in no way "remarkable".
I'd estimate at least 30 of the 40 examinations I've taken could have
been successfully completed without any study at all, *and* without
any revision of any kind whatsoever. This statement based on my
scores in the mock exams. These were sufficiently above the
minimum required pass level to guarantee a pass in the actual exams.
I did revise for most of my exams, but only because I wanted an "A"
or a score above the 90th percentile, in all cases. Had I been content
with a "C" or a mediocre percentile ranking, I'd have needed to revise
in about ten of the forty examinations. Generally, for the 9-exams-per-
week stints, I'd quit work on the Friday, study Saturday and Sunday,
sit the exams, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of the following
week, then return to work Thursday, Friday, and add a Saturday to
please my boss who had been good enough to give me the time off
to sit the exams in the first place.
Had I to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I'd take a
month off and complete the whole thing in one go. That Michael,
is the benefit of experience. And once again let me emphasize, I
am a completely unremarkable, common 5/8, within one standard
deviation of average ability, normal, working stiff.
Lawrie Miller
You are correct in most of what you say except one or two points here:
> someone who is over 30, already knows the material, and is unusually bright
> and unusually lucky on tests could probably pull this off. (Matt Damon's
> character in "Good Will Hunting," the "smart" Charly in "Flowers for
> Algernon," or John Travolta's character in "Phenomenon" could do it. Most of
> us mortals probably couldn't.)
As you age, you do not become more intelligent, you are not
necessarily wiser, but generally, you do tend to know more "things".
While you could be lucky in one or two tests, it is virtually certain
luck plays no significant part over the course of forty tests. Being
unusually bright is not a requirement to pass any of these tests.
Points of interest:
1) I have aged (a bit. Well, more than a bit).
2) I have done 40 exams.
3) I am not unduly lucky.
4) No one has ever accused me of being "bright".
5) I have done the 9-tests-in-one-week stint with minimal preparation
6) These "stints" were self contained. Start study Friday night, take
exams Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Note, not even a week.
7) It can be seen that these "stint units" could have been placed back
to back, with no increased pressure.
8) I had prior formal academic training in two of the forty
disciplines examined.
Completing 120 semester hours by way of proficiency examinations
in four weeks is reasonable and eminently practical. This from
someone who has gone through the essential elements required to
complete the BA-in-four-weeks plan and who is in all respects,
depressingly average.
Tom Head wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Michael Lomker wrote:
>
> > > Oh ye of little faith.
> > > argument fell apart due to myriad inaccuracies. Nevertheless, others
> > > might well benefit their case by following in the spirit of his example.
> >
> > As I've stated in the past:
> >
> > 1. Very few testing centers will allow you to take that many exams in a
> > month.
>
> Now, this I disagree with. The local community college had no formal limit on
> the number of examinations I could take.
> Besides: You can always use multiple testing sites.
>
> > 2. Your outline presumes taking a month off from work (study time).
>
> Not if you already know your material (and presumably have a photographic
> memory).
>
> > I don't contest that your plan is *possible* the problem is your
> > insistence that it is *practical*. By definition, your theory is
> > speculative - I don't know of anyone that has done it.
>
Tom Head
<snip>
> at all, that the four week BA was virtually impossible. Yesterday you sat
> your first two exams, and later described them as "a piece of cake", not
> exactly an overwhelming endorsement of your position. You charge that the
<snip>
> Had I to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I'd take a month off
> and complete the whole thing in one go. That Michael, is the benefit of
> experience. And once again let me emphasize, I am a completely
> unremarkable, common 5/8, within one standard deviation of average
> ability, normal, working stiff.
I wouldn't describe either you or Michael as average cases, really; the
average joe wouldn't find out how one could concievably get a BA in four weeks
and immediately write an article on how to do it. You'll find that most of
the people who are exceptionally good with tests are also extremely
comfortable with the written word, and my experience has been that most people
aren't very comfortable with the written word. (Hopefully the 'net will
change this to some extent, but I have friends who are very articulate in
person, and quite intelligent, but who can't seem to make themselves write
e-mails of any length greater than three lines. Sad, isn't it?)
Bruce Tait
>
> Absolutely. I just took my first two CLEPS this morning...piece of cake. I
> think for purposed of getting time off from work, reveiewing, and
> scheduling....I'm planning a pace of 4 per month. That's still a BS inside
> sociology as a part of it, but they are only offered 3 times per year unless
> you're in the military.
If your program will accept them, consider taking some DANTES exams also. I found them even easier
than the CLEP exams, which are, as you said, a piece of cake. The "Here's To Your Health" DANTES was the
easiest 3 credits I ever got, I think anyone with a room-temp IQ could pass it.
Have a great day,
Bruce
Larry McQueary
Michael Lomker <mlo...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I'll come out at over $10k because I wasted my first year at the U of
> Phoenix. :-(
If it makes you feel any better - that'll make two of us :-(
Larry
Larry McQueary
I second Bruce's experience. Here's To Your Health has got to be the easiest
test I've ever taken.
Larry
Bruce Tait <bt...@erols.com> wrote in message news:38586E...@erols.com...
Larry McQueary
> Doe anyone know what kind of credit ACE allows for the ICCP exams? I'm
> trying to figure out how I'll complete the concentration for my MIS program.
18 credits for the core examination, 4 credits for "Microcomputing and
Networks", and 3 credits for each of the other subject exams.
Note that Regents, the only institution I'm aware of that grants credit for all
these tests, will grade subscores on the Core Exam, so you may not get the full
18 credits. All other exams are pass/fail credit/nocredit
For the Regents BS/CIS, you can complete all but one core requirement using the
ICCP exams. That requirement is Computer Architecture/Assembly Language.
Larry
Tom Head
> I second Bruce's experience. Here's To Your Health has got to be the
> easiest test I've ever taken.
While preparing for Here's To Your Health (which turned out, I agree, to be
entirely too easy to warrant really hard-core study), I glanced over a used
copy of a health course used at a local community college. Much of what was
in the DANTES Here's To Your Health wasn't even covered in the textbook for
the health course. Most depressing. Kind of makes me wonder how many people,
for their residential degrees, managed to get credit and good grades
essentially by just showing up.
Kevin Stewart
thing, and refuses to sign off to reduce temptation.]
Tom Head wrote in message ...
Michael Lomker
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.99121...@lance.netdoor.com...
> the health course. Most depressing. Kind of makes me wonder how many
people,
> for their residential degrees, managed to get credit and good grades
> essentially by just showing up.
One of my coworkers attended a branch of the University of MN and his
experience attests to that. He jokes about spending most of his
time partying; he didn't show up for a single class in his
Senior year....he just took the finals and still managed to pass.
Kevin Stewart
favorite soaps' wah moment, yet doing good in class.
Of course, it was a 'dry' campus, so all partying had to be done vicariously
and conservatively! Soaps offered both.
Kevin, amateur apologist.
Tom Head wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Larry McQueary wrote:
>
>> I second Bruce's experience. Here's To Your Health has got to be the
>> easiest test I've ever taken.
>
>While preparing for Here's To Your Health (which turned out, I agree, to be
>entirely too easy to warrant really hard-core study), I glanced over a used
>copy of a health course used at a local community college. Much of what
was
>in the DANTES Here's To Your Health wasn't even covered in the textbook for
>the health course. Most depressing. Kind of makes me wonder how many
people,
>for their residential degrees, managed to get credit and good grades
>essentially by just showing up.
>
>
JMcAulay
Tom Head wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Larry McQueary wrote:
>
>> I second Bruce's experience. Here's To Your Health has got to be the
>> easiest test I've ever taken.
>
>While preparing for Here's To Your Health (which turned out, I agree, to be
>entirely too easy to warrant really hard-core study), I glanced over a used
>copy of a health course used at a local community college. Much of what
was
>in the DANTES Here's To Your Health wasn't even covered in the textbook for
>the health course. Most depressing. Kind of makes me wonder how many
people,
>for their residential degrees, managed to get credit and good grades
>essentially by just showing up.
Showing up isn't even necessary. Maaannny years ago, during
my "traditional" undergraduate experience (read: "debacle"), I
took "Survey of European Civilization" from a professor who
indicated the first day in class that: 1) he never took roll, and 2)
the final exam would determine all grades: 5% of students
would get A, 15% B, 60% C, 15% D, and 5% F. I showed up
next on final exam day. Prof said, "Ahh, Mr. McAulay... I feared
you were deceased." I had figured the likelihood of getting A
was too slim, getting B would require real work, so I would just
slough it and get a C, which of course happened.
But boy, was I passionate about all that brick and mortar....
Regards,
John