Culling of the French Elderly
William Robert
Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
programs.
William Robert
-----------
God bless America!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
-----------
Jigsaw1695
"William Robert" <billy...@aol.comnotdonko> wrote in message
news:20030821220555...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>
> Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
> programs.
>
> William Robert
> -----------
> God bless America!
10,000?
The French government, thru their neglect and negligence has managed to kill
more civilians in a month than all of the civilian casualties in the Iraq
war.
I wonder how Dezi, Earl, and Euro will explain this one?
Jigsaw
William Robert
They won't. It would be interesting to see the ethnic distribution.
William Robert
-----------
God bless America!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
-----------
Earl Evleth
BYf1b.7137$sV....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Jigsaw1695"
<jigsa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
In 1995, over 9,000 died in a couple of days in the mid-west, the incident
has been forgotten by Americans.
Here is an update on the comparison by an American academic.
Glad to be of an educational service to you Jiggy.
You need it.
Earl
*****
Victims of a hot climate and a cold society
Eric Klinenberg IHT
Friday, August 22, 2003
The politics of heat waves
NEW YORK Dr. Lucien Abenhaïm, France's director general for health, resigned
this week after acknowledging that up to 5,000 French citizens died during
the recent heat wave. The minister for the aged said Thursday the number
would "most probably" be more than twice that. French officials initially
said that there was little they could do to prevent the catastrophe. But
health experts and citizen groups have shown that the epidemic was caused by
a sweeping set of social breakdowns and political failures. The heat wave,
they insist, is hardly a natural disaster.
.
This is an extraordinary story, but also a familiar one. In the United
States, heat waves kill more people than hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes
and floods combined. In July 1995, more than a thousand Midwesterners - 739
of them in Chicago alone - perished during a severe heat spell that lasted
just a few days. An American heat wave as long as the one in Europe, which
lasted two weeks, could kill thousands more.
.
There are eerie similarities between the 1995 Chicago heat wave and the
recent French disaster. In both cases, meteorologists recognized dangerous
weather patterns days before the heat arrived. Neither national nor local
officials reacted to the warnings - even though they had abundant knowledge
about the hazards of extreme summer weather and the ways to prevent a health
crisis. Cities with high levels of vulnerability failed to implement heat
emergency programs - such as instructing the media to issue public warnings,
monitoring morbidity and mortality levels in at-risk neighborhoods, opening
accessible cooling centers, or increasing the paramedic and medical staff -
until it was too late.
.
Political officials did not act quickly when medical examiners and
physicians first reported the increased death rate. Some were incredulous.
In Chicago, Mayor Richard Daley questioned the scientific credibility of the
autopsy findings, and told the press and the public not to "blow it out of
proportion." While the Fire Department refused to call in additional
ambulances to serve the thousands of people who needed emergency care, the
health commissioner told the press that "We acted in an emergency alert...We
did it all." In France, one leader defended the delay by saying the
thousands of people rushed to hospitals did not have "heat victim stamped on
their foreheads."
.
We now know the consequences of such slow responses. In Paris and Chicago
emergency rooms grew so full that they could not accept new patients, even
though heat-related illnesses require immediate attention to prevent fatal
symptoms. The morgues reached capacity and refrigerated trucks arrived to
store the cadavers. Commentators noted that the victims had accessed the two
forms of assistance that would have saved them, artificial cooling and
medical attention, only after they died.
.
Yet the French and American responses to the heat crises have not been
identical. Dr. Abenhaïm resigned because French political culture demands
governmental accountability for failed policy programs, and because French
journalists aggressively documented the ways that the state neglected to
protect the vulnerable. In the United States, however, no federal officials
faced criticism after the deadly American heat wave of 1995. Chicago leaders
made it through the crisis unscathed, too. One group of activists and
advocates for the elderly demanded that the mayor's office accept
responsibility for the crisis. Yet a leading newspaper columnist trivialized
their claims, writing that "trying to blame the mayor for an act of God is
not only unfair, it also does an injustice by wrongfully framing the
debate."
.
In fact, few Americans addressed the issue of injustice during the Chicago
heat wave. By defining the event as a natural disaster or act of God, we
emphasize the inevitability of catastrophe and fail to recognize both the
man-made sources of our vulnerability and the social fault lines that
determine who is at risk. But there is nothing natural about hundreds of
older people dying alone, behind locked doors and closed windows, while
their more affluent neighbors enjoy the comfort of air conditioning.
.
When Americans do get beyond natural explanations, we usually look at
individual responsibility rather than collective culpability. In Chicago,
for example, the commissioner of human services declared that "we're talking
about people who die because they neglect themselves." Such blaming of the
victim would have probably ended the career of a French official this
summer. But in Chicago few people noted the remark.
.
Heat waves are slow, silent, and invisible killers of silent and invisible
people. But after this summer, the risks they pose should be apparent
everywhere. In the United States and Europe, an increasingly hot climate and
a cold society that turns its back on the vulnerable threaten the growing
population of elderly and isolated urban residents. They cannot be left to
fend for themselves.
.
The writer is an assistant professor of sociology at New York University,
and author of "Heat Wave: A Social Autopsy of Disaster in Chicago."
The politics of heat waves
John Rennie
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:BB6BB4D7.123BF%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
At last - a perfect reposte by Earl. Both states/societies were grossly
negligent but the French at least made sure that theirs was made
accountable.
Earl Evleth
jvm1b.3408$tS2.2...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net, "John Rennie"
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> At last - a perfect reposte by Earl. Both states/societies were grossly
> negligent but the French at least made sure that theirs was made
> accountable.
I will add this item without comment, since I will screw it up if I do!
******
History of Heat waves in the USA
Many older Americans remember the smothering heat of the 1930s, when drought
and numerous long heat waves created what was known as the ŚDust Bowlą
decade. It destroyed farms throughout the mid-west states, driving farmers
from their land and killing nearly 15,000 people in 10 years. Sudden,
violent disasters like cyclones and bushfires focus public attention while
tortuous heatwaves can affect much larger areas, often leaving a greater,
but more scattered, toll. It was in 1900 when a hurricane killed 6,000 in
Galveston, Texas, an event often ranked as Americaąs worst natural disaster.
Yet the very next year, in July, a heatwave in the mid-west ultimately cost
9,508 lives. Similarly, Los Angeles region heatwaves resulted in 546 deaths
in 1939, 946 in 1955 and 580 again in 1963. Thus, each of these
little-remembered events killed more people than the very famous San
Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906, which took 452 lives.
*****
We remember LA in 1955, newly married, no air conditioning and 115 degrees.
Earl
Euro
"Jigsaw1695" <jigsa...@earthlink.net>
??????:BYf1b.7137$sV....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Nothing to add to what Earl replied: the pot got the kettle back.
That being said, in Iraq, one doesn't know if heat killed anyone, but one
knows more or less how many innocents have been killed by the feverishness
of the occupation forces.
Euro
Richard J
WR, The French seldom experience the temperatures they have in the last
month and were simply not prepared for a long heat wave, nor do their
citizens necessarily know how to handle the heat. I suspect should my
home town in Texas experience a similar climatic anomaly, such as four
weeks of temperature below zero in the winter, we would have a good many
deaths attributed to the weather as they are not equipped ot handle
prolonged severe cold weather.
Your use of these deaths is despicable and totally off topic for this
news group. I've had little use for your posts up to this point, and
none whatsoever now.
Teflon
Earl Evleth
<ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> WR, The French seldom experience the temperatures they have in the last
> month and were simply not prepared for a long heat wave, nor do their
> citizens necessarily know how to handle the heat.
Again, that depends on the part of the country. The South gets very warm
in the summer. You can`t compare the Var with the area near Lille.
There were fewer deaths down there. Paris is not like Chicago, which
I would have thought would have been better prepared for
a heat wave. That area gets some terrible summers and winters.
(I was born in Chicago).
For instance, on the other end we don`t get 0 degrees F in Paris,
you don`t get 100 degrees in Paris. Except we did and for
a long time.
It rarely gets a few degrees below freezing. We have not had
snow on the ground for a couple of years. The typical average
highs in Paris are 2-4 C degrees in winter, 25-27 in the summer.
A warm day is 30, 33 tops.
You`d have to travel around France in the summer to realize the
variety there is in this country. Texas is the same size as France
but you don`t have the mountains, two kinds of oceans, weather coming
from 5 different directions.
The heat wave was not just exceptional but worse in recorded history.
And except for the Brittany coast, was hot everywhere except the Alps.
> Your use of these deaths is despicable ----
Perhaps you mention that to those who first posted this sequence.
I was merely, as usual, fighting disinformation.
Earl
William Robert
>William Robert wrote:
>> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>
>> Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>> programs.
>>
>> William Robert
>
>WR, The French seldom experience the temperatures they have in the last
>month and were simply not prepared for a long heat wave, nor do their
>citizens necessarily know how to handle the heat. I suspect should my
>home town in Texas experience a similar climatic anomaly, such as four
>weeks of temperature below zero in the winter, we would have a good many
>deaths attributed to the weather as they are not equipped ot handle
>prolonged severe cold weather.
Richard, did you read the article? Did you understand it? Many of the deaths
were caused by incompetence and indifference.
>Your use of these deaths is despicable and totally off topic for this
>news group. I've had little use for your posts up to this point, and
>none whatsoever now.
Off topic for this newsgroup Richard? Now remove your head from Desi's ass and
think about that statement. Let him worry about the hemorrhoids.
>Teflon
Jigsaw1695
"Desmond Coughlan" <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnbkcidj.2461.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx...
> Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 03:18:57 GMT, Jigsaw1695 <jigsa...@earthlink.net> a
écrit :
>
> >> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
> >>
> >> Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
> >> programs.
>
> >
> > The French government, thru their neglect and negligence has managed to
kill
> > more civilians in a month than all of the civilian casualties in the
Iraq
> > war.
> >
> > I wonder how Dezi, Earl, and Euro will explain this one?
>
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
==================================================================
Yes indeed Froggy DumbFuck. It was the heat. A natural disaster. But the
French government had no
plan to deal with such an emergency. Or if they did, it was on paper only.
From some of the news articles I have been reading, the attitude of the
French government is : "Hey, why worry. Something like this happens about
every fifty years. We can take a hit and then move on without having to lay
out a lot of long term money. Besides, by not preparing for this kind of
disaster, the elderly die. If you consider the savings on medical and
retirement bills as well as other related expenses we actually can make a
profit. And then we can use that money to buy off terrorists from the
mid-east. It is a win-win situation."
No wonder the entire world holds the French contempt.
Jigsaw
William Robert
>"Desmond Coughlan" <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote in message
>news:slrnbkcidj.2461.DesInaCybercafeNearBastillepasdespam_desmond@cyberia
Yes, such a disregard for human life. Will france ever become civilized?
Earl Evleth
MPr1b.443$O03...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Jigsaw1695"
<jigsa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> No wonder the entire world holds the French contempt.
I see you forgot about the article I posted!
Dodging again.
France had an historical heat wave, nothing like it before.
Hell, Chicago has worst weather and yearly.
Earl
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <3F4622EA...@hotmail.com>, Richard J
<ric...@hotmail.com> a écrit :
You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always mindless
French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
"culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any just
and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <MPr1b.443$O03...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Jigsaw1695" <jigsa...@earthlink.net> a écrit :
> From some of the news articles I have been reading, the attitude of the
> French government is : "Hey, why worry. Something like this happens about
> every fifty years. We can take a hit and then move on without having to lay
> out a lot of long term money. Besides, by not preparing for this kind of
> disaster, the elderly die. If you consider the savings on medical and
> retirement bills as well as other related expenses we actually can make a
> profit. And then we can use that money to buy off terrorists from the
> mid-east. It is a win-win situation."
Is this an actual quote, or is it simply your interpretation? If it is the
latter, you have reached the William Robert standard of obscenity. If it
is an actual quote, please do give the source, preferably the original
French source.
Donna Evleth
William Robert
>You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always mindless
>French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
>France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
>"culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any just
>and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
The Independent called it a "Holocaust of the elderly". Donna, do you prefer
those words?
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
Looks like the censored french press has failed you yet again.
William Robert
>Donna Evleth
William Robert
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Fifty million 'Americans' (sic) without electricity, Shit-For-Brains#2.
>
>Ho, ho, ho ...
Desi, how many died?
Hope this helps!
William Robert
Richard J
That's who it was meant for, Earl.
Teflon
Richard J
William Robert wrote:
> Richard J <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>William Robert wrote:
>>
>>>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>>
>>>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>>programs.
>>>
>>>William Robert
>>
>>WR, The French seldom experience the temperatures they have in the last
>>month and were simply not prepared for a long heat wave, nor do their
>>citizens necessarily know how to handle the heat. I suspect should my
>>home town in Texas experience a similar climatic anomaly, such as four
>>weeks of temperature below zero in the winter, we would have a good many
>>deaths attributed to the weather as they are not equipped ot handle
>>prolonged severe cold weather.
>
>
> Richard, did you read the article? Did you understand it? Many of the deaths
> were caused by incompetence and indifference.
Incompetence? The government should have somehow controlled the
weather? Indifference?
I think the government might have provided more emergency shelters, but
even in Texas, where the heat index often approaches 115 F. in the
summers, we have elderly shut-ins who get in trouble and die. My
parents had two or three elderly people they looked in on during extreme
heat or cold. One, and elderly lady living by herself, kept the doors
closed and windows locked even in the Summer months, and had no air
conditioning. My Father purchased her a window unit and for some time
paid her electric bills during the hot months so she would use it. Even
then, she often would not do so.
There is a limit to what a government, any government can do.
Teflon
>
>
>>Your use of these deaths is despicable and totally off topic for this
>>news group. I've had little use for your posts up to this point, and
>>none whatsoever now.
>
>
> Off topic for this newsgroup Richard? Now remove your head from Desi's ass and
> think about that statement. Let him worry about the hemorrhoids.
It WAS both off topic and despicable.
William Robert
>Incompetence? The government should have somehow controlled the
>weather? Indifference?
Richard, read the article. Then we''ll discuss it.
>> Off topic for this newsgroup Richard? Now remove your head from Desi's ass
and
>> think about that statement. Let him worry about the hemorrhoids.
>
>It WAS both off topic and despicable.
How can you defend a country that thru indifference sentences the elderly to
death?
Human life should not be taken indiscriminately.
Again, forget your bruised ego and read the article.
>Teflon
Not any more!
Jigsaw1695
"William Robert" <billy...@aol.comnotdonko> wrote in message
LOL!!!
A "Civilized France" has been one of the greatest international urban myths
of all time.
ikke
"Jigsaw1695" <jigsa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jnw1b.1385$1Q3....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "William Robert" <billy...@aol.comnotdonko> wrote in message
> > Yes, such a disregard for human life. Will france ever become civilized?
> >
> ===============================================================
>
> LOL!!!
>
> A "Civilized France" has been one of the greatest international urban
myths
> of all time.
Jigsaw #2, I'm curious, do you honestly believe that anybody here, other
than Billytwat, retains even the_slightest_respect for you?
I'm not sure why you and he don't take this to email, because exchanging
smegma like this on AADP is the Usenet equivalent of staggering through the
town centre clutching a bottle of extra-strengh cider, smelling of piss and
vomit and accosting passers-by.
It's embarrassing for everyone.
Cheers
John
Richard J
This is a time of the year when many in France take vacations and the
elders stay at home. I've read the articles and disagree with both them
and you. What would you have the French government do? People blame
the governments of their nations for everything. I remember people who
live in river flood plains blaming the government for n ot controlling
the rivers when they flood. Some things are not within the capacity of
a government to change, no matter how much they wish to. Mother nature
falls into that category.
As far as my ego goes, you are incapable of bruising it. To me, you are
not only a faceless entity, but a faceless entity I consider far below
my equal. You have to improve quite a lot before your remarks become
important to my ego.
Teflon
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkcifc.2461.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:34:08 GMT
>
>Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:53:59 +0200, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr> a écrit
>:
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> I wonder how Dezi, Earl, and Euro will explain this one?
>
>> In 1995, over 9,000 died in a couple of days in the mid-west, the incident
>> has been forgotten by Americans.
>>
>> Here is an update on the comparison by an American academic.
>>
>> Glad to be of an educational service to you Jiggy.
>>
>> You need it.
>
>{ snip }
>
>Ho, ho, ho ... anyone care to lend Shit-For-Brains a basin of cold water,
>to sit down in ..?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:34:08 GMT
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>
>
Welcome to the Desmond Coughlan archive; the home of Desi's psychotic rants and
homosexual trolling. Please help Desmond Coughlan find the man of his dreams.
As Desi lies, the archive grows!
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkcidj.2461.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:33:12 GMT
>
>Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 03:18:57 GMT, Jigsaw1695 <jigsa...@earthlink.net> a
>écrit :
>
>>> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>>
>>> Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>> programs.
>
>> 10,000?
>>
>> The French government, thru their neglect and negligence has managed to
>kill
>> more civilians in a month than all of the civilian casualties in the Iraq
>> war.
>>
>> I wonder how Dezi, Earl, and Euro will explain this one?
>
>Simple, Shit-For-Brains. It was the heat.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
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Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkct8l.24f1.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:38:17 GMT
>
>Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:48:44 GMT, Jigsaw1695 <jigsa...@earthlink.net> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip Shit-For-Brains#2 wanking off over thoughts of 'Dezi' (sic) }
>
>>> Simple, Shit-For-Brains. It was the heat.
>
>> Yes indeed Froggy DumbFuck. It was the heat. A natural disaster. But the
>> French government had no
>> plan to deal with such an emergency. Or if they did, it was on paper only.
>
>Fifty million 'Americans' (sic) without electricity, Shit-For-Brains#2.
>
>Ho, ho, ho ...
>
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:38:17 GMT
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A Planet Visitor
>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>
>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>programs.
>
Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
PV
>William Robert
>-----------
>God bless America!
You certainly haven't done anything here to suggest that God should.
PV
>-----------
A Planet Visitor
There is little question in my mind that any expressions such as that offered
are obscene. And it is not my intention to 'defend' that comment, since I
have already called it a tragedy of epic proportions, with a deep sense of
heartache over that terrible loss of life. William Robert's comment was
certainly beyond the pale in any sense of a respect for human life.
But my question is why didn't you also comment on the obscene
comment of Desmond Coughlan... who characterized the MURDER of
more than a dozen innocent humans in the Jakarta terrorist attack, as
nothing more than "easing the population problem in Indonesia"?
In case you missed his equally disgusting comment, it can be found at
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030806120202.00871.00001102%40mb-m17.aol.com
His words -- Thanks is due "... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population
problem in Indonesia, by another 13." While posting a link to the murder
of 13 innocent humans in a bombing in a Jakarta hotel. See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3126955.stm
Do you find anything other than an obscenity in Desmond's comment?
Please answer with something other than "I don't wish to be involved,"
since you decided to involve yourself here. Or do you not even READ
Desmond's comments? Which I could well understand.
PV
William Robert
>On 22 Aug 2003 02:05:55 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert)
wrote:
>
>>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>
>>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>programs.
>>
>Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
>rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
PV, did you read the Independent article? They called it a Holocaust.
I expressed no glee. It was quite the opposite. I criticized the french
bureaucracy for their callous attitude towards the elderly. It was as if they
were considered disposable.
William Robert
>PV
drdoody
> >Fifty million 'Americans' (sic) without electricity, Shit-For-Brains#2.
> >
> >Ho, ho, ho ...
> >
> >
> >--
> >Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
While I do desperately miss my ability to killfile Dolly and all of
her obsessive incarnations, I do occasionally enjoy wathing the
rambling, barely coherent mass that Desi has become twitch its way
across Usenet like some crippled, gibbering hulk. It is truly a pity
that while the recent european heatwave managed to microwave thousands
of elderly French, it somehow completely missed barbecueing Mr.
Coughlan into a fucking hockey puck.
Oh, well. One can never depend upon the weather.
Doc
akra...@hotmail.com
> "Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:BB6BB4D7.123BF%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> > On 22/08/03 5:18, in article
> > BYf1b.7137$sV....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Jigsaw1695"
> > <jigsa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "William Robert" <billy...@aol.comnotdonko> wrote in message
> > >> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
> > >>
> > >> Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
> > >> programs.
> > >>
> > >> -----------
> > >> God bless America!
> > >
> > > 10,000?
> > >
> > > The French government, thru their neglect and negligence has managed to
> kill
> > > more civilians in a month than all of the civilian casualties in the
> Iraq
> > > war.
> > >
> > > I wonder how Dezi, Earl, and Euro will explain this one?
> > >
> >
> > In 1995, over 9,000 died in a couple of days in the mid-west, the incident
> > has been forgotten by Americans.
> >
> > Here is an update on the comparison by an American academic.
> >
> > Glad to be of an educational service to you Jiggy.
> >
> > You need it.
> >
> >
> > *****
> >
> >
> > Victims of a hot climate and a cold society
>
> At last - a perfect reposte by Earl. Both states/societies were grossly
> negligent but the French at least made sure that theirs was made
> accountable.
I am trying to figure out where in the article on Chicago it mentions
close to 9000 mid-westerners dying in 1995.
Nothing the French gov't could have done would have stopped the heat
wave or at least some more deaths than usual. However, the French
gov't executives could have left their vacations early, encouraged
some hospital staff to come back and opened up the rest of the
hospital wards. The problem was with their reaction time, not the
fact that more people tend to die during unavoidable heat waves than
not. I don't know how accountable the French gov't was seeing that
they started off the whole crisis by attempting to understate the
nature of the emergency while Chirac and friends continued to enjoy
the delights of our frosty neighbor to the north. In fact, in light
of knowledge of the Chicago heat wave, I would think the events in
France were all the more indicative of negligence. Being quick to
say, "Whoops, we ignored the available evidence and the proper course
of action" is called damage control, not accountability.
Earl Evleth
<ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Your use of these deaths is despicable ----
>>
>>
>> Perhaps you mention that to those who first posted this sequence.
>>
>> I was merely, as usual, fighting disinformation.
>>
>> Earl
>>
>>
>>
>
> That's who it was meant for, Earl.
Anybody who wrote "Your use of these deaths is despicable"
Earl
Earl Evleth
<ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This is a time of the year when many in France take vacations and the
> elders stay at home.
In our building 7 of the 14 adults are over 70 in age. 5 are currently not
here but away.
Our friends, next door, are in Greece since the first. They went off
with Micheline`s mother for a cure in Normandy in July. Her mother
is 96, manages her own apartment in Paris and does not go on vacation.
She remained in Paris (and survived), she is is a robust 96. Since
no fans were available in Paris, they sent one from Greece!
Our neighbor just below us, over 80 is at La Baule, on the Atlantic, with
the grandchildren,
where she goes every year. The 90 yr old on the first floor does not like
to travel and remains always in Paris. He is in reasonable health and of
sound mind. The older woman upstairs, in her 80s, has gone on vacation
with her daughter. A post 70 man in good health on the floor above us
will go to his Marseilles property in September, his wife and sons are
around still too. We are leaving for Greece in two weeks. The concierge
is gone but we have a replacement who distributes the mail, puts out the
garbage cans, and cleans up. We have a new baby on the first floor,
born during the heat wave. We have a couple with two younger children
too. So there is some replacement of the old with the new, life has
a certain continuity in Paris and death seems a part of that scheme of
things. The noise of children is welcomed. Still, it is a cult of life
and not death so the deaths of the older, while accepted are resented.
An early departure is resented, so it becomes a political issue.
The neighborhood has a lot of shuttered apartments (an message to burglars,
"we are gone, come and burgle"!), over 50%, in keeping with the practice
of going on vacation at this time of the year. The very old and fragile
English lady across the street is still in residence with her husband
who is in much better shape. They take periodic walks, slowly, every day
but of course, disappeared from the streets during the heat wave.
The problem is France is that not only have people gone somewhere else
but the hospital personnel also take off. One "avoids" getting serious
ill in the summer. Usually the bad time in France is the winter,
death rates of the very elderly rise 300% in the winter months, the summer
is not a normal time for excess mortality. The medical care system was
not designed for this kind of thing, so it needs to be fixed with a
better early warning system.
Liberation today had a nice article.
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=132094
First, France has 10 000 over 100, 84 000 between 95-99, and 350 000
90-94 94 ans. In 1971, these numbers were 1000, 14 000 et 92 000, that
is 4 to 10 times fewer. The over 100 have a life expectancy of 2 years,
they are fragile but persist.
Next, those old people living by themselves are not among the super
fragile nor befuddled. We had one old person in our building
years ago who finally developed a too grand fragility, she would fall and
could not get up again. The concierge had to constantly monitor her and
call the firemen to get into the place if she had fallen. Finally
she was taken to a "rest" home. For many, the "rest" home the antechamber
of death, the fragile end up there and it is there where 50% of the
deaths occurred, not in private residences. No person with developing
Altzheimers can remain in their own private residence. Our 90 yr
old has been in his current apartment for perhaps 40-50 years,
he likes it, he goes out regularly to play bridge with his cronies,
he wanders the neighborhood talking with shopkeepers or fellow
neighbors like myself. His very adult children drop by almost daily.
He has angina, takes his "nitro" and makes it through each day.
He ought not to be moved until his mind has gone. He has a community
support system to care for him. He is mostly of good humor, complains
about some difficulty in walking but not excessively. He is interesting
to talk with, Jewish of Romanian abstraction, survived WWII by
working on a farm in Normandy.
So not every old person is alone, but many are. We have a elderly persons
center two blocks from where we live, noon meals can be taken there.
A number of activities are also available. However, these service
shut down in the summer, so the big hole in this support system
is the summers.
I personally am not hypercritical of the Government, a lot of the criticism
is from the opposition party. Not knowing of anybody who died,
it is hard to personally identify with the global drama. The press
helps develop this empathy, however. The press and TV news
performed very well in the crisis. They always talk about the
weather anyway, so this was a natural extension.
The Government failed at the PR game of rushing
around looking like they were trying to do something. They never
said anything mean, however, from the President on down they did
not say that the victims were at fault. Nor did they make and apologists
argument that "this occurred because our medical system permits old
people to survive longer into their old age". The public preferred
a "can do better" attitude.
Yet the population itself is at least partly fatalistic. As you said,
the Government can not provide a 100% guarantee, there are limits to what
it can do. The debate is around whether this limit was reached.
Earl
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <20030822154437...@mb-m17.aol.com>,
billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert) a écrit :
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote:
>
>>You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always mindless
>>French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
>>France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
>>"culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any just
>>and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
>
> The Independent called it a "Holocaust of the elderly". Donna, do you prefer
> those words?
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>
> Looks like the censored french press has failed you yet again.
>
> William Robert
The supposedly censored French press called it a "massacre" (hécatombe).
This term was in Le Monde of August 22, on the front page where even those
who did not buy the newspaper could see it.
The problem here is not semantics, Sir, it is you. In your mindless, knee
jerk hatred of the French, you circle like a vulture, waiting and watching
for any bad news about France so that you can swoop down and pick through
any carrion, without, in this case, any respect or empathy for the poor
people who actually died. This is what I found obscene, Sir.
Why don't you find something more constructive to do with your time?
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <75odkvkikldvrd4dg...@4ax.com>, A Planet
Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> There is little question in my mind that any expressions such as that offered
> are obscene. And it is not my intention to 'defend' that comment, since I
> have already called it a tragedy of epic proportions, with a deep sense of
> heartache over that terrible loss of life. William Robert's comment was
> certainly beyond the pale in any sense of a respect for human life.
>
> But my question is why didn't you also comment on the obscene
> comment of Desmond Coughlan... who characterized the MURDER of
> more than a dozen innocent humans in the Jakarta terrorist attack, as
> nothing more than "easing the population problem in Indonesia"?
The answer to your question is easy: because I don't read Desmond. I have
had more than enough of wading through reams of foul language which say
nothing. Thus, having stopped reading Desmond altogether, I did not read
his comment which I certainly agree is obscene, now that you point it out to
me.
Just don't expect me to start reading Desmond again. Feel free to point
things out to me instead, since you obviously have the stomach and the
patience for his posts which I, alas, do not.
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
>>Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
>>rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
>
> PV, did you read the Independent article? They called it a Holocaust.
>
> I expressed no glee. It was quite the opposite. I criticized the french
> bureaucracy for their callous attitude towards the elderly. It was as if they
> were considered disposable.
>
> William Robert
>
>>PV
> -----------
> God bless America!
>
> and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
Your disclaimer would be a lot more believable if it were not for the way
you ALWAYS end your posts. Your final two lines above indicate that you
feel all the French are disposable.
Donna Evleth
Richard J
Earl Evleth wrote:
> On 23/08/03 3:36, in article 3F46C529...@hotmail.com, "Richard J"
> <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>This is a time of the year when many in France take vacations and the
>>elders stay at home.
>
<snipped excellent information and posting>
>
> Yet the population itself is at least partly fatalistic. As you said,
> the Government can not provide a 100% guarantee, there are limits to what
> it can do. The debate is around whether this limit was reached.
>
>
>
>
> Earl
>
>
Earl, there are things I very much dislike about the current French
government and admittedly I am not overly fond of the French in General,
but the current situation is something all of us should be able to
relate to. People who live in relatively moderate climates are not
equipped physically or emotionally to deal with extremes of temperature.
They often have no idea of how to properly hydrate to prevent
problems, how to recognize when they are starting to get in trouble, or
what to do.
Being a native Texan, there are preventative measures I take when it is
hot that I don't even really think about. I drink copious amounts of
water, and when I start getting to hot, I find ways to immediately cool
off. Many is the time when working in the woods during the summer that
I found a spring fed creek and climbed in clothes and all when I
recognized myself getting over heated. I know that might not be an
option in the city, but a cold shower helps, and everyone can hydrate
properly.
Ten years ago, I was working in upper Michigan during what they termed a
'killer heat wave'. The temperature was only about 91 F. but for these
folks it was horrible. I was amazed that people didn't keep and drink
ice water, much less drink extra water before going to work in the
morning. They were amazed that once an hour, I would stop, go to a
water hose and drink water in small amounts over a ten minute period.
One even told me he didn't drink water because it made them sweat! I
asked him if he had his burial insurance paid up.
Teflon
William Robert
Donna, can you help me understand the rules of the game? It is apparently fine
for Earl and others to constantly bash the U.S. However, when I do the same to
France, it is obscene. Can you explain this double standard?
>Why don't you find something more constructive to do with your time?
I could say the same about Earl.
>Donna Evleth
William Robert
-----------
God bless America!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
-----------
William Robert
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:19:05 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
>
>> Your disclaimer would be a lot more believable if it were not for the way
>> you ALWAYS end your posts. Your final two lines above indicate that you
>> feel all the French are disposable.
>
>billytwat has never been to France, Donna. He just likes to claim to be a
>'diplomat', to explain how _no_ person by the name of 'William Robert'
>entered France on a translantic flight all of this year.
and how would an unemployed McDonald's mop-boy know that?
>
William Robert
-----------
God bless America!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY SOME SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
-----------
John Rennie
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:3f475209$0$7485$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
Like self immolation for instance.
A Planet Visitor
LOL... What does this have to do with the death penalty???
PV
>Teflon
A Planet Visitor
Thank you, Donna... for that fair and honest answer.
PV
>Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>>
>> Earl, there are things I very much dislike about the current French
>> government
conservative
>> and admittedly I am not overly fond of the French in General,
i.e. they were smart enough to avoid the Iraq quagmire.
>> but the current situation is something all of us should be able to
>> relate to. People who live in relatively moderate climates are not
>> equipped physically or emotionally to deal with extremes of temperature.
I noticed a lack of central heating in the Caribbean. Shocking.
But to repeat, France has a lot of different climates.
One can see that in roof designs alone, steep roofs in the Alpine
areas, much less so in the Var where it never snows.
What kind of roofs do you have in Texas!
Can your homes withstand a 2 meter load of snow on their roofs?
Earl
A Planet Visitor
>A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>
>>On 22 Aug 2003 02:05:55 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert)
>wrote:
>>
>>>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>>
>>>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>>programs.
>>>
>>Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
>>rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
>
>PV, did you read the Independent article? They called it a Holocaust.
>
>I expressed no glee. It was quite the opposite. I criticized the french
>bureaucracy for their callous attitude towards the elderly. It was as if they
>were considered disposable.
>
You know that I am not among those idiots who criticize your every comment,
William. Perhaps that is why you feel you need to defend your posts to me...
and not really give a shit about what others say. Which I well understand...
because they can often be seriously irrational in criticizing your comments.
Your various exposures of that disgusting worm desi being a case in point of
your posts that I totally agree with. I enjoy each and every one of those
well-deserved exposures of his sick underbelly.
But let me put this in a particular context that might make my feelings more
clear. When Europeans 'blame' the U.S. administration for 'not doing enough'
to prevent 9/11, we clearly see that there is no actual concern among those
who do so with the LIVES LOST. It simply is criticism for the sake of being
anti-American. I find the same in any 'criticism' of the French administration
regarding the heat catastrophe which engulfed France. It is criticism simply
for the sake of being anti-French, and we should leave that to the media, and
not forgot those lives here in AADP. This is not the TIME nor the PLACE
nor the SUBJECT to criticize... this is a time to express sympathy in respect to
those live lost. And ONLY SYMPATHY. And I expect us... all of us... to
be above expressing any criticism regarding those lives lost. Especially from
Americans... since we certainly do not wish to emulate those who criticize the
U.S. Administration for lives lost in 9/11, while paying no respect to those lives
at all. As I said... WE are above that!!!
I keep hoping that your anti-French feelings are not really 'anti-French' but
are more 'anti-those who try to appear to be French.' I know the TRUE
French. On the surface they are seen as haughty, and arrogant. But
underneath they are nothing of the sort. Unfortunately, there are some
imported foreign immigrant laborers in France who try to pretend they are
French... such as desi and Earl. They don't actually know HOW to be
French, so they simply look at the surface, as you might do, and assume that
being haughty, and arrogant will make them French. NOTHING will make
them French. desi is a lost soul... adrift without any identity at all... desperate
to make a connection...to the great misfortune of the French, him having tried
to appear to be French. Earl was cast out of the U.S., by his peers. Unable
to compete in that intellectual environment, forced into exile in another country...
to the great misfortune of the French, another one trying to appear to be French.
Just so we clear the air here. I agree with your comments when they reflect
on individuals such as desi... he deserves everything he gets, and you have
exposed him for the despicable scum that he is, on a great number of occasions.
I have avoided mentioning your ongoing 'contest' with Mr. D. It's one I
do not wish to be involved in, but I must say that I feel you were the first
who wronged him, by trying to 'expose' his true name, which obviously
was not even correct, but in any case, something that is just not done in
Usenet.
Finally, we are not like those who cluster around each other, like cackling
hens, never expressing discord or disagreement between them. Lock stepping
in a mentality which permits no expressions of various opinions. WE are more
open to various forms of comments which are not always robotic in form.
You know who they are... those who would praise ANYTHING said by
another who would praise them for ANYTHING they might say. We are
BETTER than they are. And the French have every right to express opposition
to the U.S. current course of action. Of course, I believe they are wrong to
do so. Which has nothing to do with their 'right' to do so. Because I
believe in the long term, their efforts are more destructive than constructive.
Since if there is one thing in which terrorism has an advantage at present,
it is their cohesive common goal. Terrorists are bound together, all in a common
interest - Murder as a 'political force.' While we (the U.S. and the EU) remain
fractured in purpose, generally because of an inability to be more forceful in
attacking terrorism. A frozen inability to act which emanates from the EU,
and is responsible for much of the inability of the U.N. to actually mandate a
forceful response to terrorism. We say -- Do everything possible. The EU
says -- Do nothing. I believe 'doing everything possible' is preferable to
'doing nothing.' IMHO.
PV
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <20030823103738...@mb-m23.aol.com>,
> Donna, can you help me understand the rules of the game? It is apparently fine
> for Earl and others to constantly bash the U.S. However, when I do the same to
> France, it is obscene. Can you explain this double standard?
You are responding to me on this thread, not Earl. I will repeat, you are
responding to me. Other people on this group have no trouble understanding
that Earl and I are two different people, with different approaches. Why is
this concept so difficult for you, when everyone else seems to get the
picture? Everyone on this group will tell you that I do not constantly bash
the U.S. So, since you are responding to me, and I do not do this, why the
hell are you throwing Earl's behavior up at me?
>
>>Why don't you find something more constructive to do with your time?
>
> I could say the same about Earl.
Earl has certainly been anti-American at times. I have called him on it, as
you do not seem to remember. However, I do not think he has ever gloated
obscenely over the deaths of a lot of poor old people, as you have just
done. Nor has he ever, to my knowledge, talked about "smelly heathen
Americans."
That said, why don't you find something more constructive to do with you
time?
William Robert
>
>Dans l'article <20030823103738...@mb-m23.aol.com>,
>billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert) a écrit :
>
>
>> Donna, can you help me understand the rules of the game? It is apparently
fine
>> for Earl and others to constantly bash the U.S. However, when I do the same
to
>> France, it is obscene. Can you explain this double standard?
>
>You are responding to me on this thread, not Earl. I will repeat, you are
>responding to me. Other people on this group have no trouble understanding
>that Earl and I are two different people, with different approaches. Why is
>this concept so difficult for you, when everyone else seems to get the
>picture? Everyone on this group will tell you that I do not constantly bash
>the U.S. So, since you are responding to me, and I do not do this, why the
>hell are you throwing Earl's behavior up at me?
Of course I'm responding to you. First Donna, you didn't answer my question. -
Why is it fine for Earl and others to bash the U.S. while if I bash France you
find it obscene?
Also, I never said you did any bashing. I said Earl & others did. I have never
heard you criticize those OTHERS for U.S. bashing.
>>>Why don't you find something more constructive to do with your time?
>>
>> I could say the same about Earl.
>
>Earl has certainly been anti-American at times. I have called him on it, as
>you do not seem to remember. However, I do not think he has ever gloated
>obscenely over the deaths of a lot of poor old people, as you have just
>done. Nor has he ever, to my knowledge, talked about "smelly heathen
>Americans."
Nor have I gloated over the death of the elderly Frenchmen. From what I've read
the French government was indifferent. Hospitals were understaffed because many
people were on vacation. As the heat wave lasted over two weeks, why weren't
the health care workers asked to return? I can find no reference that says they
were. Were these elderly considered disposible? I don't think so as I place a
higher value on life. French criminals are treated better than this.
I think you are actually finding fault with my sig line instead of what I have
said on this subject. I've now changed it.
William Robert
>Donna Evleth
>>
>> William Robert
>>
-----------
God bless America!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY SOME SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
-----------
A Planet Visitor
Have you completely taken leave of your senses, Earl? Why in
fuck's name did you address your post to ME? When it was
a response to RICHARD? Could it be that you're obsessing?
PV
>
>Earl
Donna Evleth
>
> Of course I'm responding to you. First Donna, you didn't answer my question. -
> Why is it fine for Earl and others to bash the U.S. while if I bash France you
> find it obscene?
Why don't you ask this question of PV? He also found your comments on this
thread obscene, and he is one of the strongest critics of Earl and others
who bash the U.S. Perhaps he can explain to you why it was not the French
bashing in itself that was so offensive, but the way you did it.
>
> I think you are actually finding fault with my sig line instead of what I have
> said on this subject. I've now changed it.
Now that you have changed your sig line, does this mean I can respond with:
"God bless America and France!
and no one else - ESPECIALLY SMELLY, HEATHEN BILLY BOB!" :-)
>
Donna Evleth
William Robert
>> Of course I'm responding to you. First Donna, you didn't answer my question.
-
>> Why is it fine for Earl and others to bash the U.S. while if I bash France
you
>> find it obscene?
>
>Why don't you ask this question of PV? He also found your comments on this
>thread obscene, and he is one of the strongest critics of Earl and others
>who bash the U.S. Perhaps he can explain to you why it was not the French
>bashing in itself that was so offensive, but the way you did it.
I don't understand PV's reaction. I'm guessing he didn't understand my intent.
If he had read my other posts on this subject he would have seen I was critical
of the French government, not the French people. I strongly feel the government
could have done a lot more to prevent these deaths.
Donna, I'm sorry you misinterpreted my statement. It was not meant to be
offensive to you.
>> I think you are actually finding fault with my sig line instead of what I
have
>> said on this subject. I've now changed it.
>
>Now that you have changed your sig line, does this mean I can respond with:
>"God bless America and France!
>and no one else - ESPECIALLY SMELLY, HEATHEN BILLY BOB!" :-)
If that is your choice.
William Robert
>Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <al3fkvsq0e096d8nj...@4ax.com>, A Planet
Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> Earl was cast out of the U.S., by his peers. Unable
> to compete in that intellectual environment, forced into exile in another
country...
This infers that Earl did not get tenure at his university, UC Santa Cruz.
Not getting tenure is the way one is "cast out" by one's peers in American
academia. That is simply not true. Earl did have tenure, so he obviously
competed successfully in that intellectual environment. He was not "forced
into exile", as you put it, he came here of his own free choice. In fact,
his colleagues at UC Santa Cruz wanted him to remain there. Like many
Americans, you cannot understand why anyone would want to live anywhere but
the United States, so you assume that going to live elsewhere could not have
been a free choice.
The problem with untruths like this is that gullible types like William
Robert may believe them.
The imported foreign immigrant laborer's wife
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
3f486869$0$16521$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net, "Donna Evleth"
<dev...@noos.fr> wrote:
A minor detail but I was also Department Chairman! After two years
of doing that, several people suggested that I might like to be
Dean of Natural Sciences. I had not reached my level of incompetence
in administration but I thought that I would being Dean. I preferred
research and did not what to leave that.
PV has an active imagination. But he is web Bound for information,
which is a crippled source.
One can not easily check on a person's real CV on the web. For instance,
possibly only 10% of my over 100 published papers are mentioned on the
web. There is even some false information as to which institution I
was at in California (one web site mentions San Jose University, which
is not the University of California at Santa Cruz). But if PV is really
that hot to trace my past he can get some information by goggeling "EM
Evleth" which is what I use professionally. There, for instance one will is
find the listings for our lab In a single year's report, 1996.
http://www.lct.jussieu.fr/reinhardt/labo/pub_sources/pub_gen.html
I left my tenured post in California for a variety of reasons,
no one of which is sufficient to be "a" reason.
But among the perks were
1) a higher salary (yes that did occur)
2) no teaching unless I wanted to
3) my research was fully funded, no longer did I have
to get external grant support.
4) graduate students were funded. I did not have to scare
up money for them
5) no administrative duties.
6) free to take vacations when and often as I wanted.
7) CNRS salaries are attached to the individual, I was free to
move to any other lab in the country. I could also leave and work
in foreign labs for an extended period of time and still get paid.
This kind of freedom does not exist in American academia.
8) We could live in Paris.
The negatives were there too. Leaving our home in California was one of them
and leaving a beautiful University and my colleagues was painful, I
still feel it. I don`t have any pain attached to leaving the US per se
but the part of California we lived in is still loved, there are regrets
attached to that separation. We feel towards it as we do feel for Paris.
But overall we are more attached to France than the USA.
Earl
1
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbket4c.28fu.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:48:18 GMT
>
>Le 22 Aug 2003 21:58:50 -0700, drdoody <drd...@hotmail.com> a écrit :
>
>>> >Fifty million 'Americans' (sic) without electricity, Shit-For-Brains#2.
>>> >
>>> >Ho, ho, ho ...
>
>> While I do desperately miss my ability to killfile Dolly and all of
>> her obsessive incarnations, I do occasionally enjoy wathing the
>> rambling, barely coherent mass that Desi has become twitch its way
>> across Usenet like some crippled, gibbering hulk. It is truly a pity
>> that while the recent european heatwave managed to microwave thousands
>> of elderly French, it somehow completely missed barbecueing Mr.
>> Coughlan into a fucking hockey puck.
>>
>> Oh, well. One can never depend upon the weather.
>
>*sob*
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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>Path:
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cable.ntl.COM!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:48:18 GMT
>Lines: 22
>Message-ID:
><slrnbket4c.28fu.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>
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>
>
Welcome to the Desmond Coughlan archive; the home of Desi's psychotic rants and
homosexual trolling. Please help Desmond Coughlan find the man of his dreams.
As Desi lies, the archive grows!
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkh80m.2a3b.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 11:06:22 GMT
>
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:07:11 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>> On 23 Aug 2003 04:39:13 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert)
>wrote:
>>> I'm a diplomat!
>
>{ snip 100 _gloriously obsessive_ lines, FuckWit sucking up to
> billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick, and accusing 'Desi' (sic) of being the
> root of all evil }
>
>ROTFLM*FUCKING*AO !!!!
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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so1-4-cust198.herm.cable.ntl.COM!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 11:06:22 GMT
>Lines: 15
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Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbketmb.28hj.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:57:53 GMT
>
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:19:05 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> and no one else - ESPECIALLY THOSE SMELLY, HEATHEN french !
>
>> Your disclaimer would be a lot more believable if it were not for the way
>> you ALWAYS end your posts. Your final two lines above indicate that you
>> feel all the French are disposable.
>
>billytwat has never been to France, Donna. He just likes to claim to be a
>'diplomat', to explain how _no_ person by the name of 'William Robert'
>entered France on a translantic flight all of this year.
>
>LOL !! billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick ... LMAO !!! The Walter Mitty of
>news:alt.activism.death-penalty ... *guffaw!*
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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cable.ntl.COM!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:57:53 GMT
>Lines: 21
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><slrnbketmb.28hj.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>
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><3f475b9c$0$16242$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
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Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkete8.28hj.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:53:34 GMT
>
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:46:59 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>>
>>>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>>programs.
>
>> Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
>> rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
>
>Hear, hear !
>
>{ snip FuckWit thrashing billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick into the ground }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
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fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pc1-epso1-4-cust198.herm.cable.ntl.COM!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:53:34 GMT
>Lines: 18
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Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkh93u.2a64.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 11:25:10 GMT
>
>Le Sun, 24 Aug 2003 09:25:59 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip Donna thrashing FuckWit to within an inch of his life }
>
>> Like many Americans, you cannot understand why anyone would want to live
>> anywhere but the United States, so you assume that going to live
>> elsewhere could not have been a free choice.
>
>Shit-For-Brains#1 and Shit-For-Brains#2 have aimed comments of this nature,
>i.e. 'why did "Desi" [sic] flee Britain ?'
>
>They (and billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick) have roughly ten brain cells
>between them, so the idea that I prefer life in France, to life in the UK,
>just didn't occur to them.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 11:25:10 GMT
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>
>
Jigsaw1695
=================================================
Hmmm......"The imported foreign immigrant laborer's wife". I like it Donna.
Jigsaw
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbki4j7.2ame.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:14:08 GMT
>
>Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:41:21 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>
>{snip }
>
>> You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always mindless
>> French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
>> France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
>> "culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any just
>> and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
>
>You should be aware, Donna, that Shit-For-Brains#2 and
>billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick's continuous France-bashing has _nothing_
>to do with France, or the overwhelming majority of the French. They are
>what are known as net stalkers, and their apparent fixation is on me, as
>one particular Frenchman, and not the entire country.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
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>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
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Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbki4ok.2ame.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:17:01 GMT
>
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:13:45 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> In case you missed his equally disgusting comment, it can be found at
>>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030806120202.00871.00001102%40mb-m
17.aol.com
>> His words -- Thanks is due "... to Bush and Blair, for easing the
>population
>> problem in Indonesia, by another 13." While posting a link to the murder
>> of 13 innocent humans in a bombing in a Jakarta hotel. See
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3126955.stm
>
>More mendacious snipping from the Master of Lies himself, a Planet 'Aids is
>a Virus' Visitor.
>
>What a coincidence that FuckWit doesn't quote the _rest_ ... sorry, 'REST'
>(sic) of my post, particularly the final sentence ...
>
> 'must also accept their part of blame for this tragedy.'
>
>Oh wait: not a coincidence at all. Just another invocation of FuckWit
>Patented Gimmick (TM) n° 166, the 'the lie becomes the truth' gimmick.
>Does FuckWit _know_ how to be honest ?
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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t.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pc1-epso1-4-cust198.herm.cable.ntl.COM!no
t-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:17:01 GMT
>Lines: 29
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>
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbki421.2ame.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:04:58 GMT
>
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:44:37 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>
>>> There is little question in my mind that any expressions such as that
>offered
>>> are obscene. And it is not my intention to 'defend' that comment, since I
>>> have already called it a tragedy of epic proportions, with a deep sense of
>>> heartache over that terrible loss of life. William Robert's comment was
>>> certainly beyond the pale in any sense of a respect for human life.
>>>
>>> But my question is why didn't you also comment on the obscene
>>> comment of Desmond Coughlan... who characterized the MURDER of
>>> more than a dozen innocent humans in the Jakarta terrorist attack, as
>>> nothing more than "easing the population problem in Indonesia"?
>
>> The answer to your question is easy: because I don't read Desmond. I have
>> had more than enough of wading through reams of foul language which say
>> nothing. Thus, having stopped reading Desmond altogether, I did not read
>> his comment which I certainly agree is obscene, now that you point it out
>to
>> me.
>>
>> Just don't expect me to start reading Desmond again. Feel free to point
>> things out to me instead, since you obviously have the stomach and the
>> patience for his posts which I, alas, do not.
>
>Even although FuckWit is the laughing stock of
>news:alt.activism.death-penalty, it is sad that every once in a while, his
>use of FuckWit Patented Gimmick (TM) n° 166, the 'the lie becomes the
>truth' gimmick, finds an easy (and gullible) target.
>
>In fact, Donna, those who read my original post (rather than, as you have
>regrettably done in this case, relying on FuckWit's twisted version of it),
>were left in no doubt that my expression concerning 'population problem',
>was a biting attack on the policies of Bush and Blair in Iraq, which (as we
>predicted) has resulted in _more_ terrorism, not less.
>
>The original post is as follows ...
>
> [Subject: Thanks are Due ...]
> '... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population problem in Indonesia,
> by another 13.
>
> url:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3126955.stm
>
> Of course, Shit-For-Brains, Ancient-Rome-Boy [1], FuckWit and other
> morons who supported their governments illegal war of aggression
> against the Iraqi people ... must also accept their part of blame for
> this tragedy.'
>
>Quite obviously, I was _not_ 'celebrating' the deaths, and you should now,
>once and for all, be aware that when FuckWit makes a claim (especially a
>claim concerning a post that you have not read), you _must always_ verify
>it, as he is news:alt.activism.death-penalty's most consumate liar.
>
>Delighted to have cleared up your confusion.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:04:58 GMT
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Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <T052b.7299$jY2....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Jigsaw1695" <jigsa...@earthlink.net> a écrit :
>
> Hmmm......"The imported foreign immigrant laborer's wife". I like it Donna.
>
> Jigsaw
Watch out - I might import myself to Florida. And since I loathe both of
the favorite local pastimes, shopping and golf, watch out.
Donna Evleth
>
>
Jigsaw1695
"Desmond Coughlan" <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
news:slrnbki4j7.2ame.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx...
> Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:41:21 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a
écrit :
>
> {snip }
>
> > You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always
mindless
> > French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
> > France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
> > "culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any
just
> > and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
>
> You should be aware, Donna, that Shit-For-Brains#2 and
> billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick's continuous France-bashing has _nothing_
> to do with France, or the overwhelming majority of the French. They are
> what are known as net stalkers, and their apparent fixation is on me, as
> one particular Frenchman, and not the entire country.
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Dezi, as usual you overestimate your own importance.
Jigsaw1695
Since you didn't mention it, maybe we will meet at some Bingo-Fest.
A Planet Visitor
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:07:11 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>> On 23 Aug 2003 04:39:13 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert) wrote:
>>> I'm a diplomat!
>
>{ snip 100 _gloriously obsessive_ lines, FuckWit sucking up to
> billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick, and accusing 'Desi' (sic) of being the
> root of all evil }
>
But you are, oh Nameless One... at least in AADP. You make William
Robert look like Mother Teresa. He criticized the French administration
for the deaths in France... IMHO, a deplorable choice of words at this
particular time. You LAUGHED at the murder of more than a dozen human
beings... calling it only 'population control.' William has done some
magnificent work in demonstrating you are the 'root of all evil' that you even
admit to being. You're rather proud of being that root. Given that you've
admitted you are more evil than Theodore Frank, and the chances are that
you would murder before he would. See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1r_D9.204037%24fa.4431379%40twister.tampabay.rr.com
Your words -- "Indeed, the chances of _me_ murdering someone, are
greater than the chances that Theodore Frank would have done so."
>ROTFLM*FUCKING*AO !!!!
>
I don't think so, sport. Of course, if you believe admitting to being
more evil than Theodore Frank causes you to roll around a bit, it
goes well with the rest of your ravings here in AADP.
PV
>--
> The Nameless One -- I'm a lawyer... guffaw... guffaw... guffaw...
A Planet Visitor
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Sun, 24 Aug 2003 09:25:59 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>{ snip Donna thrashing FuckWit to within an inch of his life }
>
>> Like many Americans, you cannot understand why anyone would want to live
>> anywhere but the United States, so you assume that going to live
>> elsewhere could not have been a free choice.
>
>Shit-For-Brains#1 and Shit-For-Brains#2 have aimed comments of this nature,
>i.e. 'why did "Desi" [sic] flee Britain ?'
>
>They (and billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick) have roughly ten brain cells
>between them, so the idea that I prefer life in France, to life in the UK,
>just didn't occur to them.
>
LOL... Donna has already admitted that she finds you as disgusting as
I do. She would not even see your SLURP... SLURP... SLURP up to
her, if I did not respond to your pathetic begging in respect to her
comment. She states she no longer reads your slimy output. That makes
John Rennie, Dave Proctor and Donna Evleth... all abolitionists who
find you disgusting. While I have... boo de fuckin' hoo... your sock-puppet,
Richard, who doesn't 'like me.' He apparently doesn't 'like Blacks' very
much, either. See his comment at ---
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3E2CC93F.3030707%40hotmail.com
Why would you speak of preferring life in the U.K.? I thought you were
Irish? Is there something that keeps you from returning to your homeland?
An outstanding bench warrant... or something like that?
PV
>--
> The Nameless One -- I'm a lawyer -- guffaw...guffaw...guffaw...
A Planet Visitor
>
>
>Dans l'article <al3fkvsq0e096d8nj...@4ax.com>, A Planet
>Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>
>> Earl was cast out of the U.S., by his peers. Unable
>> to compete in that intellectual environment, forced into exile in another
>country...
>
>This infers that Earl did not get tenure at his university, UC Santa Cruz.
No... it doesn't. You simply are blinded by your personal connection to
Earl, and fail to understand my meaning. It means just what it says... cast
out... considered a pariah... shunned... ignored.... ridiculed.... laughed
at. BY HIS PEERS. It does not mean 'removed from his tenured position.'
If Earl had obtained tenure, why did he run away from that 'exalted'
position? It would seem the world would be open to him. Offered seats
on various boards, needing only to attend weekly or monthly meetings to
get paid princely sums (since he has stated 'money first... then ethics.').
Free to do 'consulting work' for think-tanks. Invited to attend cocktail parties
among the 'elite.' Hobnobbing with the 'rich and famous.' Moving among
the 'privileged intellectual' class. Touching the cuff of Linus Pauling.
Needing only to hold a few courses, which at that point should have been
simply rote performances. Since he obviously does not 'teach' but simply
commands in a robotic fashion which permits no actual intellectual interchange
of ideas between professor/student. Revered on campus as 'that nutty ol'
professor.' Able to express all his harebrained ideas in front of a rapt
audience of students willing to accept any idea that conflicts with common
sense.
WHY? Why did he go into exile from what you admit is supposed to
be a 'valued objective'? It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a university
professor) to figure out that it was the peer competition that he couldn't
handle. I think he realized HIS PEERS were beginning to laugh at him
(I know I have... and so have you), and his absurd views on every subject
save 'quantum mechanics' (in which his peers might have even been laughing
at him in that... given that he claims 90 degrees is not 90 degrees).
>Not getting tenure is the way one is "cast out" by one's peers in American
>academia. That is simply not true. Earl did have tenure, so he obviously
>competed successfully in that intellectual environment. He was not "forced
>into exile", as you put it, he came here of his own free choice. In fact,
>his colleagues at UC Santa Cruz wanted him to remain there. Like many
>Americans, you cannot understand why anyone would want to live anywhere but
>the United States, so you assume that going to live elsewhere could not have
>been a free choice.
>
yada... yada... yada. Don't give me that crap... since I spent 26 years in
Europe, and am well aware of the various differences. Your point seems
to be that he was so 'successful' WERE HE WAS... thus, why the need
to go into 'academic exile' from a tenured position? Of course he came
there of 'his own free choice.' It's not a matter of slavers kidnapping him
and 'forcing' him into such exile. But it was a 'free choice' to ESCAPE.
Since you seem to confirm that he had nothing to escape FROM... why
the move? My 'theory' is that he was 'forced into exile' because of the
laughter he recognized that was coming from his peers, in respect to his
'wild and crazy' views on every aspect of human nature. You, as much
as anyone, must realize that the ONLY thing that drives Earl to distraction
is when someone RIDICULES him. You, as much as anyone, must
realize how absurd some of his posturing is. He can go on and on
ENDLESSLY, if he believes he is being impressive. He can be blindly
pompous, and totally oblivious to how silly he looks. UNTIL.... UNTIL...
a small snicker comes from the back of the classroom. I am among
many here who have raised that snicker to an out and out gale of laughter
at some of his remarks. And if he was being 'laughed at' by those he
recognized as his peers (not many of those in the world in Earl's view -
are there, Donna?)), he would have been driven to distraction, and simply
would have broken under the strain of enduring such laughter from HIS
PEERS. This necessitated his escape... escape to an environment where
his views would not be seen as total nonsense... and where his 'academic
credentials' would enable him to 'get away with' much more craziness than
his peers in the states would have ever permitted, without snickering.
Funny enough... I simply don't believe you when you claim that his colleagues
wanted him to remain... unless it was for the 'laugh factor,' that Earl
provided them. Given how successful you claim he had been... why would
he abandon such success? You see, Donna... here in this forum, and
presumably when dealing with the French, he can assert his common
excuse for refusing to enter into a meaningful dialog -- his claim that
"This is really a bit too complicated for you to follow." Which he uses
quite frequently. But that EXCUSE to avoid a reactive comment cannot
be USED when dealing with those who are recognized as his PEERS.
And reactive comments are not 'his style.' He rather enjoys sitting on
his perch.. God-like... and pontificating to 'lowly mortals.' Admitting
no possibility that dialog is even necessary.
>The problem with untruths like this is that gullible types like William
>Robert may believe them.
>
The problem is they might not be as untrue as you would paint them.
As his wife, you could hardly be termed as an 'unbiased observer.'
But given that he's claimed that I beat my wife... what do you have
to say about the untruths that he spreads in his doddering senility?
As I recall you 'jumped on me' for having 'spoiled your anniversary.'
How can you now defend Earl, for what is a far greater offense to
my personal life, than I EVER presumed to offer in respect to your
personal life?
>The imported foreign immigrant laborer's wife
>
If you say so...
PV
>Donna Evleth
A Planet Visitor
Bullshit, Earl... IMHO... all bullshit. It's rather obvious that you're
protesting too much here. And the 'real reason' you needed to escape
to an exile in France... is that you could not handle the giggles that
were coming from your peers, when you expressed some of your
crazy views... such as a suggestion that the West blackmail Islam by
threatening to nuke Mecca.
But you keep on making a fool of yourself, with the pitiful display of
your 'presumed academic credentials.' None of that addresses the
central issue that it's rather obvious you FLED that comfortable
cocoon you claim to have existed in... and the reason for doing so
is never explained. I think that it's because you could stand the
snickers that were coming from your peers in that 'rarified academic
air.'
PV
>Earl (first money... then ethics)
A Planet Visitor
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:41:21 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>{snip }
>
>> You are absolutely right, Richard. William Robert, in his always mindless
>> French bashing, has now reached the level of the obscene. To say that
>> France has found a way to limit their (sic) social/welfare programs by
>> "culling the elderly" is a smelly, heathen comment. I doubt that any just
>> and merciful God would feel much like blessing Billy Bob.
>
>You should be aware, Donna, that Shit-For-Brains#2 and
>billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick's continuous France-bashing has _nothing_
>to do with France, or the overwhelming majority of the French. They are
>what are known as net stalkers, and their apparent fixation is on me, as
>one particular Frenchman, and not the entire country.
>
SLURP... SLURP... SLURP... You KNOW that Donna doesn't
read your trash, oh Nameless One. Only my responding here will
enable her to see your inability to separate what you believe is a
'fixation' on you, with the real purpose of exposing your lies. Plato
described you quite accurately so many thousands of years ago --
"They deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth." The
reason you find those you insult to be your 'worst enemy,' is simply
because they expose you for what you are. And what was it Donna
said about you? Let's recall those words of wisdom -- "I don't
read Desmond. I have had more than enough of wading through
reams of foul language which say nothing. Thus, having stopped
reading Desmond altogether, I did not read his comment which I
certainly agree is obscene, now that you point it out to me."
BTW -- Dream on... you're only a faux Frenchman.
PV
>--
> The Nameless One --- I'm a lawyer... guffaw... guffaw...guffaw...
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:55:44 +0200, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Bullshit, Earl... IMHO... all bullshit. It's rather obvious that you're
> protesting too much here. And the 'real reason' you needed to escape
> to an exile in France... is that you could not handle the giggles that
> were coming from your peers, when you expressed some of your
> crazy views... such as a suggestion that the West blackmail Islam by
> threatening to nuke Mecca.
This is one of your sillier posts of late, PV. The crazy view (and yes, as you
present it, it is indeed crazy) that you attribute to Earl is one that he has
expressed on a.a.d-p. That is, long after he had retired.
We all know about Earl's knee-jerk anti-Americanism and we all cringe at his
occasionally outlandish outbursts but there is _absolutely_no_reason_ to doubt
his explanation(s) of his move from the USA to France.
His lack of practical common sense is hardly likely to disqualify him from a
successful academic career - particularly in as abstruse a field as quantum
chemistry.
Mr Q. Z. D.
--
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"They've got to be protected/All their rights respected ((o))
Until someone we like can be elected." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
>
> "Jigsaw1695" <jigsa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:jnw1b.1385$1Q3....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "William Robert" <billy...@aol.comnotdonko> wrote in message
>
>> > Yes, such a disregard for human life. Will france ever become civilized?
>> >
>> ===============================================================
>>
>> LOL!!!
>>
>> A "Civilized France" has been one of the greatest international urban
> myths
>> of all time.
>
> Jigsaw #2, I'm curious, do you honestly believe that anybody here, other
> than Billytwat, retains even the_slightest_respect for you?
>
> I'm not sure why you and he don't take this to email, because exchanging
> smegma like this on AADP is the Usenet equivalent of staggering through the
> town centre clutching a bottle of extra-strengh cider, smelling of piss and
> vomit and accosting passers-by.
Very AOL of me I know but LOL!
Descriptive and quite, quite damning.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Donna Evleth wrote:
> Dans l'article <20030823103738...@mb-m23.aol.com>,
> billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert) a écrit :
>> Donna, can you help me understand the rules of the game? It is apparently fine
>> for Earl and others to constantly bash the U.S. However, when I do the same to
>> France, it is obscene. Can you explain this double standard?
>
> You are responding to me on this thread, not Earl. I will repeat, you are
> responding to me. Other people on this group have no trouble understanding
> that Earl and I are two different people, with different approaches. Why is
> this concept so difficult for you, when everyone else seems to get the
> picture?
Dearie, dearie me, Donna. It _is_ obvious - Walter isn't terribly bright. This
is far from the first time that he's got the wrong end of the stick and I
honestly don't see why you take time composing serious responses to him. It's
like teaching a pig to sing - an enterprise destined for failure that tends to
irritate the pig.
There are other, simpler, ways of irritating the pig and I find it better to
leave that task who can do so with little or no effort.
Jigsaw1695
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <sa...@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:K%b2b.60178$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"(It is) irritating to the pig"?
I don't think there is any evidence that trying to teach a pig to sing it
any more discomforting than
forcing it to learn to whistle. The pig just isn't interested.
Perhaps Earl can assist us. I am sure he will come up with some studies that
confirm
or refute the allegation that trying to teach a domestic or wild swine to
make musical notes does or does not cause discomfort.
Yours Academically
Jigsaw
A Planet Visitor
If you loath shopping and golf...you will be left with only the sunrises and
sunsets... or you will quickly tire of Florida. :-)
PV
>Donna Evleth
>>
>>
A Planet Visitor
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> wrote:
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:44:37 +0000, Donna Evleth <dev...@noos.fr> a écrit :
>
>>> There is little question in my mind that any expressions such as that offered
>>> are obscene. And it is not my intention to 'defend' that comment, since I
>>> have already called it a tragedy of epic proportions, with a deep sense of
>>> heartache over that terrible loss of life. William Robert's comment was
>>> certainly beyond the pale in any sense of a respect for human life.
>>>
>>> But my question is why didn't you also comment on the obscene
>>> comment of Desmond Coughlan... who characterized the MURDER of
>>> more than a dozen innocent humans in the Jakarta terrorist attack, as
>>> nothing more than "easing the population problem in Indonesia"?
>
>> The answer to your question is easy: because I don't read Desmond. I have
>> had more than enough of wading through reams of foul language which say
>> nothing. Thus, having stopped reading Desmond altogether, I did not read
>> his comment which I certainly agree is obscene, now that you point it out to
>> me.
>>
>> Just don't expect me to start reading Desmond again. Feel free to point
>> things out to me instead, since you obviously have the stomach and the
>> patience for his posts which I, alas, do not.
>
>Even although FuckWit is the laughing stock of
>news:alt.activism.death-penalty, it is sad that every once in a while, his
>use of FuckWit Patented Gimmick (TM) n° 166, the 'the lie becomes the
>truth' gimmick, finds an easy (and gullible) target.
>
Oh... yeah... now Donna is 'gullible.' Apparently anyone who reads
your words, and finds the obscenity within them that I do... is simply
'gullible.' Keep in mind that Donna has already judged your posting
style... and she finds you eminently ignorable. As some other abolitionists
have found.
>In fact, Donna, those who read my original post (rather than, as you have
>regrettably done in this case, relying on FuckWit's twisted version of it),
>were left in no doubt that my expression concerning 'population problem',
>was a biting attack on the policies of Bush and Blair in Iraq, which (as we
>predicted) has resulted in _more_ terrorism, not less.
>
Stop making 'excuses' for your laughter at the murder of more than a dozen
human beings, Oh Nameless One... it just makes you more pathetic than
we all know you are. I provided a link to your post. Do not expect that
Donna is unable to read the English language, and your entire meaning in
your comment. It began with a great 'horselaugh' in respect to those who
were MURDERED... and followed with the most disgusting EXCUSE
for those murders one can imagine. Totally EXCUSING those who actually
committed those murders... the terrorists that you so often support.
>The original post is as follows ...
>
> [Subject: Thanks are Due ...]
> '... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population problem in Indonesia,
> by another 13.
>
> url:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3126955.stm
>
> Of course, Shit-For-Brains, Ancient-Rome-Boy [1], FuckWit and other
> morons who supported their governments illegal war of aggression
> against the Iraqi people ... must also accept their part of blame for
> this tragedy.'
>
>Quite obviously, I was _not_ 'celebrating' the deaths,
Quite obviously, you were jumping up and down in joy...that an
'opportunity' presented itself to 'blame' someone other than the
murderers... the fucking terrorists... for the attack. You're simply
another APOLOGIST for murderers... in every case. Including
the racist murderer of James Byrd... who you argued had been
wrongly sentenced in Texas in "another miscarriage of justice."
> and you should now,
>once and for all, be aware that when FuckWit makes a claim (especially a
>claim concerning a post that you have not read), you _must always_ verify
>it, as he is news:alt.activism.death-penalty's most consumate liar.
>
You mean 'consumate' (sic) provider of the TRUTH regarding your
posts. In the midst of all your deceptions and obscenities all
that is left is the TRUTH. And it's become my job to expose
you. I also believe that Donna is intelligent enough to have digested
the entire content of your post, on her first reading, after I provided
the link to your comment. Although, if calling her 'gullible' does not
work for you... I am sure you'll elevate your insults to her... from
calling her 'stupid,' to next calling her a 'deathie,' and finally to calling
her a 'liar.' The ultimate praise from you... since being called a 'liar'
by you, can only be seen as someone who has unmasked you for
the evil little shit you are. Because of your own inability to HANDLE
THE TRUTH. She responded that after she had read it in its entirety,
she felt violated by you... and said ""I don't read Desmond. I have
had more than enough of wading through reams of foul language
which say nothing. Thus, having stopped reading Desmond altogether,
I did not read his comment which I certainly agree is obscene, now
that you point it out to me. Just don't expect me to start reading
Desmond again. Feel free to point things out to me instead, since
you obviously have the stomach and the patience for his posts which
I, alas, do not."
You will find that my comment to her included a very clear link to
your comment, for her to judge. And yes... it is my DUTY to have
the stomach and patience to condemn your posts. Someone must
do it.
>Delighted to have cleared up your confusion.
>
And I thank you for further convincing everyone here that your
affection for terrorists murderers runs rather deep. Any excuse
for them will do with you. And even bring forth a 'jump for
joy' from you, when it occurs, since it offers you an opportunity
to 'joke about it,' and call it simply 'population control.' You
cannot possibly push that obscene comment off on anyone else,
Oh Nameless One. It's YOURS... all the way home. You
found the murder of more than a dozen innocent human beings
to be nothing more than 'population control in Indonesia.'
A Planet Visitor
pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org> vomited:
>Le Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:13:45 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> In case you missed his equally disgusting comment, it can be found at
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030806120202.00871.00001102%40mb-m17.aol.com
>> His words -- Thanks is due "... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population
>> problem in Indonesia, by another 13." While posting a link to the murder
>> of 13 innocent humans in a bombing in a Jakarta hotel. See
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3126955.stm
>
>More mendacious snipping from the Master of Lies himself, a Planet 'Aids is
>a Virus' Visitor.
>
Actually, providing a link to your complete comment. NONE of which
EXCUSES your laughing at the murder of more than a dozen innocent
humans, calling it 'population control in Indonesia.' And the remainder
of your post was simply to provide an EXCUSE for the terrorists who
murdered those innocent people. Demonstrating only your affection
for murdering terrorists. Where was even the SLIGHTEST mention
of a condemnation of the MURDERING TERRORISTS within your
comment? You only provide an EXCUSE for them... trying to 'blame
others.' See the words 'terrorist' or 'murderer' anywhere in your post?
See trying to place the blame on the ACTUAL murderers, rather than
trying to EXCUSE them? Not a chance. It was all a big JOKE to
you... from beginning to end. An 'opportunity' to make a JOKE
about murders committed by terrorists... hoping to EXCUSE them
for the murders they committed.
>What a coincidence that FuckWit doesn't quote the _rest_ ... sorry, 'REST'
>(sic) of my post, particularly the final sentence ...
>
> 'must also accept their part of blame for this tragedy.'
>
That particular sentence is meant to EXCUSE the MURDERERS.
First you 'blame' Bush and Blair.. then anyone who has happened to
expose your evil here. But do you fault the MURDERERS? Not
a chance. You don't FAULT the murderer... they are INNOCENT
TO YOU. They are more 'innocent' to you than the victims of
their murders. You almost BLAME the innocent victims... because
of a 'population problem in Indonesia.' While the murders themselves
are only a joke to you... to USE in trying to place the blame elsewhere.
A great big joke to you. 13 innocent victims to use as 'fodder' for
your disgusting affection for terrorist murderers.
>Oh wait: not a coincidence at all. Just another invocation of FuckWit
>Patented Gimmick (TM) n° 166, the 'the lie becomes the truth' gimmick.
>Does FuckWit _know_ how to be honest ?
>
I know only too well. And that's what drives you to distraction. I was
quite honest in my very EXACT quote of your words that call the
murder of 13 innocent humans, nothing more than 'population control
in Indonesia.' Can you see anything but an OBSCENITY in such
a statement? Donna couldn't... and I can't. Do you really believe
that the rest of your comment... which now tries to BLAME others,
rather than the actual terrorist murderers, can EXCUSE your comparison
of the murder of 13 innocent human beings to nothing more than
'population control in Indonesia'?
PV
>{ snip }
>
>--
> The Nameless One
dirtdog
wrote:
>On 23 Aug 2003 04:39:13 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert) wrote:
>
>>A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>>
>>>On 22 Aug 2003 02:05:55 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert)
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=436017
>>>>
>>>>Earl, be careful. France has found a way to limit their social/welfare
>>>>programs.
>>>>
>>>Jesus... please find another way to focus your hate for the French,
>>>rather than express some 'glee' over the deaths of so many people!!
>>
>>PV, did you read the Independent article? They called it a Holocaust.
>>
>>I expressed no glee. It was quite the opposite. I criticized the french
>>bureaucracy for their callous attitude towards the elderly. It was as if they
>>were considered disposable.
>>
>You know that I am not among those idiots who criticize your every comment,
>William. Perhaps that is why you feel you need to defend your posts to me...
>and not really give a shit about what others say. Which I well understand...
>because they can often be seriously irrational in criticizing your comments.
>Your various exposures of that disgusting worm desi being a case in point of
>your posts that I totally agree with. I enjoy each and every one of those
>well-deserved exposures of his sick underbelly.
You are a fucking idiot, PV. Indeed, it is taking all of my willpower
to refrain from referring to you by your proper title of 'Fuckwit' in
view of shite like this.
Just _why_, precisely, is Desmond a 'disgusting worm'?
He disagrees with you quite fundamentally. You have traded insults.
Other than that, what has he _ever_ done which causes you to apply
such a silly label?
The answer is nothing. You are a child, PV, and you need to seriously
grow up.
<schlong-rubbing snipped>
>I keep hoping that your anti-French feelings are not really 'anti-French' but
>are more 'anti-those who try to appear to be French.'
Imbecile! You are fucking insane!
I level considered criticism at the conduct of the US administration
and I am a 'raving anti-American'. The stalker who sometimes posts
from an AOL acount under the name of 'William Robert' bases his
_entire presence_ on aadp on rabid anti-French ranting is merely
'misunderstood'.
Do you realise how much of a fool you appear?
<blatant stereotyping snipped>
>Just so we clear the air here. I agree with your comments when they reflect
>on individuals such as desi... he deserves everything he gets, and you have
>exposed him for the despicable scum that he is, on a great number of occasions.
How exactly has the poster calling himself William Robert ever exposed
'Desi', PV? Do you really agree with everything he says? Do Desmond's
politics make him deserving of the material from Billynomates mocking
the death of his father and sister? Does his posting his opinion to
Usenet mean he 'asks for' real life stalking and intrusions on his
privacy?
>I have avoided mentioning your ongoing 'contest' with Mr. D. It's one I
>do not wish to be involved in, but I must say that I feel you were the first
>who wronged him, by trying to 'expose' his true name, which obviously
>was not even correct, but in any case, something that is just not done in
>Usenet.
If what you have dribbled up to now was stupid, this is the part of
this extremely ill considered post which actually made me heave.
Billycunt and his 'mate' (I am yet to be convinced that they are not
the same person) Dick Magdy tried to cause QZD to lose his job. They
(he) failed but they certainly tried.
QZD is supposed to be your friend. He certainly is my friend. I do not
appreciate others trying to cause my friend to lose his livelihood, no
matter how inept the attempt. I certainly would never suck up to them
as you shamelessly do here.
It was actually Billycunt/Dick Magdy who caused me to try to treat you
with a little more respect. It was the nasty, vindictive actions of
this _fucking slime_ which made me think that no matter how much of a
clueless dickhead you are, you should not be treated with the same
level of contempt as the pitiful stalker. Evidently, I was incorrect,
and if I were QZD I should be extremely annoyed to see you making
excuses for his behaviour and sidling up to him like a lovesick
teenager.
You are a very poor friend indeed and you should be thoroughly ashamed
of yourself.
<apologism for the Stalker snipped>
w00f
A Planet Visitor
Take a 'ff' [1], dirt. Plain and simple. Your style.
>Just _why_, precisely, is Desmond a 'disgusting worm'?
>
Why that would be because he LAUGHED at the murders of more
than a dozen innocent human beings in the terrorist attack in Jakarta.
See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030806120202.00871.00001102%40mb-m17.aol.com
His disgusting laugh at those murders - His words --
His words -- Thanks is due "... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population
problem in Indonesia, by another 13."
You should perhaps recognize that even Donna called his comment "obscene."
See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3f475389%240%247485%2479c14f64%40nan-newsreader-02.noos.net
And then he had the disgusting arrogance to call Donna 'gullible,' because HE
had laughed at those murders... calling them 'population control,' and tried
to DEFEND his laughing, with more pathetic excuses. None of them, including
his original post, containing the words 'terrorists,' or 'murderers.' It's all about
DEFENDING those terrorist murderers. They don't 'exist' in his mind, and
must be ignored when speaking of terrorist murders.
>He disagrees with you quite fundamentally.
As I said -- who gives a 'ff' [1]? He's an ignorant, lying sack of shit...
unworthy to call himself a member of the human race.
>You have traded insults.
>Other than that, what has he _ever_ done which causes you to apply
>such a silly label?
His comments SICKEN me. Can you possibly understand that? Can
you possibly digest the full scope of his posting style here? Calling for
abolitionists to torture and kill retentionists. Admitting there is a better
chance that he would murder than Theodore Frank. Begging the group
to _vote_ for his racism. Trying to destroy the works, and life of
MLK through ME. The lies... the distortions... the absurd and obscene
insults he provides which contain nothing more than one line of such
insults... and not an iota of intellectual content. Jesus.. dirt... even YOU
are Mother Teresa compared to HIM.
>
>The answer is nothing. You are a child, PV, and you need to seriously
>grow up.
>
Yeah.... yeah.. just imitation Nameless One mindless drivel. You can
do much better with your insults than that, dirt. I know you can.
><schlong-rubbing snipped>
>
Much better... Still needs work, however.
>>I keep hoping that your anti-French feelings are not really 'anti-French' but
>>are more 'anti-those who try to appear to be French.'
>
>Imbecile! You are fucking insane!
>
Oh... shit... back to the 'mindless drivel' of the Nameless One.
>I level considered criticism at the conduct of the US administration
>and I am a 'raving anti-American'. The stalker who sometimes posts
>from an AOL acount under the name of 'William Robert' bases his
>_entire presence_ on aadp on rabid anti-French ranting is merely
>'misunderstood'.
>
yada... yada...yada... I don't see YOU criticizing the Nameless One...
EVER... while I've certainly criticized William Robert. What makes
you presume that you are better than me... you having not once criticized
the Nameless One? In fact, there is NO DOUBT that your criticism
regarding the U.S. is 'considered' only in your feeble mind. Since
it comes from deep within the recesses of some very disturbing
hate of the U.S., which I have commented on LONG AGO.
>Do you realise how much of a fool you appear?
>
Do you realize how much of a fool you appear for calling me one, when
I have criticized William Robert, and you have NEVER criticized the
Nameless One. Of course, you would argue that he doesn't 'deserve'
criticism... because you have the SAME agenda... anti-Americanism.
><blatant stereotyping snipped>
>
Whatever are you babbling about?
>>Just so we clear the air here. I agree with your comments when they reflect
>>on individuals such as desi... he deserves everything he gets, and you have
>>exposed him for the despicable scum that he is, on a great number of occasions.
>
>How exactly has the poster calling himself William Robert ever exposed
>'Desi', PV? Do you really agree with everything he says? Do Desmond's
>politics make him deserving of the material from Billynomates mocking
>the death of his father and sister? Does his posting his opinion to
>Usenet mean he 'asks for' real life stalking and intrusions on his
>privacy?
>
Apparently you don't read his comments. Sorry for your ignorance.
>>I have avoided mentioning your ongoing 'contest' with Mr. D. It's one I
>>do not wish to be involved in, but I must say that I feel you were the first
>>who wronged him, by trying to 'expose' his true name, which obviously
>>was not even correct, but in any case, something that is just not done in
>>Usenet.
>
>If what you have dribbled up to now was stupid, this is the part of
>this extremely ill considered post which actually made me heave.
>
Who actually gives a 'ff', [1] if you heave. Maybe it will rid you of some
of the poisonous bile you hold within you.
>Billycunt and his 'mate' (I am yet to be convinced that they are not
>the same person) Dick Magdy tried to cause QZD to lose his job. They
>(he) failed but they certainly tried.
>
>QZD is supposed to be your friend. He certainly is my friend. I do not
>appreciate others trying to cause my friend to lose his livelihood, no
>matter how inept the attempt. I certainly would never suck up to them
>as you shamelessly do here.
>
I'm not sucking up to anyone. In fact, I am doing exactly the same as
Mr. D. has announced he does with the dialogs between me and the
Nameless One. He has stated he avoids entering such arguments.
Just as I have done.
>It was actually Billycunt/Dick Magdy who caused me to try to treat you
>with a little more respect.
Jesus, dirt... How many times must I tell you. I don't WANT your
'respect.' It's rather an INSULT when you presume to offer it. Is
that clear???
> It was the nasty, vindictive actions of
>this _fucking slime_ which made me think that no matter how much of a
>clueless dickhead you are, you should not be treated with the same
>level of contempt as the pitiful stalker. Evidently, I was incorrect,
>and if I were QZD I should be extremely annoyed to see you making
>excuses for his behaviour and sidling up to him like a lovesick
>teenager.
>
As I said... take a 'ff' [1]... you ignorant shit.
>You are a very poor friend indeed and you should be thoroughly ashamed
>of yourself.
>
I have said OVER AND OVER... I HAVE NO FRIENDS HERE. I
seek no friends here. This is an imaginary forum in which I speak my
opinions. There is NO ONE here I consider my 'friend.' I have only
a few I 'respect' for sometimes providing argument which, although I
often violently disagree, I believe they do so from a position that they
truly believe in, and which is not that unacceptable to me in an argument.
Mr. D. is one of those few. You are not. But I have NO FRIENDS
HERE. I am here mostly to be argumentative... because a dialog which
drifts into agreement, simply ceases to be interesting. If you don't like it...
then... take a 'ff' [1].
><apologism for the Stalker snipped>
>
[1] ff = flying fuck.
PV
>w00f
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:biaikvcle5ita251f...@4ax.com...
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:biaikvcle5ita251f...@4ax.com...
snip
> While I have... boo de fuckin' hoo... your sock-puppet,
> Richard, who doesn't 'like me.' He apparently doesn't 'like Blacks' very
> much, either. See his comment at ---
> http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3E2CC93F.3030707%40hotmail.com
His remarks were insensitive and, as with so many of Richard's posts
in this area, completely lacking in imagination. I submit, however, that
they were not racist which I think is what you are attempting to imply.
He believes that if blacks would only stop belly aching they could make
something of themselves. The true racist believes that they do not have
the capacity to improve their lot.
Alan
except for Richard and
maybe Diablo.
Alan
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 14/08/2003
Earl Evleth
Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
l we are more attached to France than the USA.
> Bullshit, Earl... IMHO... all bullshit. It's rather obvious that you're
> protesting too much here.
I did not protest at all, my wife did. I clarified some points.
I did not even know you made a false accusation since I did not read your
original post, my wife pointed it out to me.
You are effectively accusing both my wife and I of lying, and not in
a joking fashion. I gave enough information that you can check the
items I mentioned. Note that you don`t even have a past you
can comment on. No name, no past?
Have you completely surrendered to the style of the day, like Bush,
lies and distortions?
Enough.
Earl
Earl Evleth
LNb2b.60164$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Mr Q. Z. Diablo"
<sa...@dodo.com.au> wrote:
> His lack of practical common sense
As I have commented on, common sense is not that common.
Earl
Richard J
John Rennie wrote:
> "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
> news:biaikvcle5ita251f...@4ax.com...
>
> snip
>
>> While I have... boo de fuckin' hoo... your sock-puppet,
>>Richard, who doesn't 'like me.' He apparently doesn't 'like Blacks' very
>>much, either. See his comment at ---
>>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3E2CC93F.3030707%40hotmail.com
>
>
> His remarks were insensitive and, as with so many of Richard's posts
> in this area, completely lacking in imagination.
John, unlike you, I lived in communities with large populations of
African Americans my whole life. For the last thirty years, I taught
African Americans. I don't need an imagination to see the problems
facing blacks, nor do I need an imagination to see that in many
instances their own attitude holds them back. I guess it comes in handy
if you live in another country though.
I submit, however, that
> they were not racist which I think is what you are attempting to imply.
> He believes that if blacks would only stop belly aching they could make
> something of themselves.
I believe that everyone should be given an equal chance to succeed or
fail. That everyone has the right to try to become President of the US
or a bum. Yes, I DO believe if some blacks stop blaming the white man
for ALL their problems they would be better off. I make no apology for
that.
Teflon
John Rennie
"Richard J" <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F49E68F...@hotmail.com...
How perfectly you demonstrate exactly the point I was making.
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <K%b2b.60178$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Mr Q. Z.
Diablo" <sa...@dodo.com.au> a écrit :
> Dearie, dearie me, Donna. It _is_ obvious - Walter isn't terribly bright.
This
> is far from the first time that he's got the wrong end of the stick and I
> honestly don't see why you take time composing serious responses to him. It's
> like teaching a pig to sing - an enterprise destined for failure that tends to
> irritate the pig.
>
> There are other, simpler, ways of irritating the pig and I find it better to
> leave that task who can do so with little or no effort.
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
> --
> Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round
bastard.
> "They've got to be protected/All their rights respected ((o))
> Until someone we like can be elected." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
You're not only right, you made me laugh:-) You also have a much better sig
line than Billy Bob, even after he fixed it.
Donna Evleth
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:07:11 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq>
> wrote:
>>I have avoided mentioning your ongoing 'contest' with Mr. D. It's one I
>>do not wish to be involved in, but I must say that I feel you were the first
>>who wronged him, by trying to 'expose' his true name, which obviously
>>was not even correct, but in any case, something that is just not done in
>>Usenet.
>
> If what you have dribbled up to now was stupid, this is the part of
> this extremely ill considered post which actually made me heave.
Didn't notice it. I would have taken him to task, too. Jesus please=us!
> Billycunt and his 'mate' (I am yet to be convinced that they are not
> the same person) Dick Magdy tried to cause QZD to lose his job. They
> (he) failed but they certainly tried.
Failed? If it weren't for my good nature combined with some first-rate
ineptitude on the part of my boss, _nothing_ would have come of that. As
it stands, nothing came of that and the only reason that I didn't end up
with carte blanche to do as I wished was the fact that I didn't argue the
point.
>
> QZD is supposed to be your friend.
Pushing it. let's just say that PV and I have no reason to be seriously
at odds on any kind of personal level.
> level of contempt as the pitiful stalker. Evidently, I was incorrect,
> and if I were QZD I should be extremely annoyed to see you making
> excuses for his behaviour and sidling up to him like a lovesick
> teenager.
If PV had not mentioned me then I would have regarded it as his silly,
"on principle" conflict with young Mr Coughlan. I have no problem with this
conflict as both participants appear to be enjoying themselves immensely.
Any alliance with the stalkers (who are reviled by people on both sides of the
DP debate apart from Ruch "I believe what the drooling man tells me" Wickes)
is to be regarded with utter, utter contempt.
To PV - it is all very well to give others a hard time on a.a.d-p. That's
what it's there for. Attempting to harm others is just _not_on_. Expressing
approval at such an attempt is also _beyond_the_pale_. I'm not asking for
apologies or even a reply. I just hope you think a bit carefully about those
with whom you would align yourself.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Donna Evleth wrote:
> You're not only right, you made me laugh:-) You also have a much better sig
> line than Billy Bob, even after he fixed it.
My .sig is becoming more and more relevant as time goes by, i'm afraid. Given
that I know Mr Lehrer's words and music almost entirely by heart (although I
can no longer remember the piano part from "Bright College Days") I cannot think
of another one of his moments that make a signature file that is relevant at the
moment. I do like his monologue about Dr Robert Gall (inventor of the gall
bladder) and his majoring in animal husbandry...until they caught him at it one
day. The delivery is, of course, better than mine.
Do keep trying with Jiggy, though. There's a good heart there (I honestly
believe), even if the head is lagging in almost every respect. Your patience
here is always appreciated, after all...
dirtdog
wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 03:46:52 +0100, dirtdog <dirtdogA...@fruffrant.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>You are a fucking idiot, PV. Indeed, it is taking all of my willpower
>>to refrain from referring to you by your proper title of 'Fuckwit' in
>>view of shite like this.
>>
>Take a 'ff' [1], dirt. Plain and simple. Your style.
>
>>Just _why_, precisely, is Desmond a 'disgusting worm'?
>>
>Why that would be because he LAUGHED at the murders of more
>than a dozen innocent human beings in the terrorist attack in Jakarta.
>See --
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030806120202.00871.00001102%40mb-m17.aol.com
>His disgusting laugh at those murders - His words --
>His words -- Thanks is due "... to Bush and Blair, for easing the population
>problem in Indonesia, by another 13."
>
>You should perhaps recognize that even Donna called his comment "obscene."
>See --
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3f475389%240%247485%2479c14f64%40nan-newsreader-02.noos.net
>
>And then he had the disgusting arrogance to call Donna 'gullible,' because HE
>had laughed at those murders... calling them 'population control,' and tried
>to DEFEND his laughing, with more pathetic excuses. None of them, including
>his original post, containing the words 'terrorists,' or 'murderers.' It's all about
>DEFENDING those terrorist murderers. They don't 'exist' in his mind, and
>must be ignored when speaking of terrorist murders.
So, Desmond is a 'disgusting worm' because he made a sarcastic comment
(which was certainly _not_ his laughing at the terrorist attack in
Jakarta) and because he called Donna gullible?
Well argued.
<silly ranting snipped>
>Do you realize how much of a fool you appear for calling me one, when
>I have criticized William Robert, and you have NEVER criticized the
>Nameless One. Of course, you would argue that he doesn't 'deserve'
>criticism... because you have the SAME agenda... anti-Americanism.
Oh, don't talk shite.
Desmond does not attempt to cause real-world harm to other posters in
aadp. Your friend does. Habitually
>><blatant stereotyping snipped>
>>
>Whatever are you babbling about?
I'm 'babbling' about nonsense such as this:
"I know the TRUE
French. On the surface they are seen as haughty, and arrogant."
>
>>>Just so we clear the air here. I agree with your comments when they reflect
>>>on individuals such as desi... he deserves everything he gets, and you have
>>>exposed him for the despicable scum that he is, on a great number of occasions.
>>
>>How exactly has the poster calling himself William Robert ever exposed
>>'Desi', PV? Do you really agree with everything he says? Do Desmond's
>>politics make him deserving of the material from Billynomates mocking
>>the death of his father and sister? Does his posting his opinion to
>>Usenet mean he 'asks for' real life stalking and intrusions on his
>>privacy?
>>
>Apparently you don't read his comments. Sorry for your ignorance.
Or in other words, you don't know, and you can't point to a _single_
example.
<more silly ranting snipped>
>> It was the nasty, vindictive actions of
>>this _fucking slime_ which made me think that no matter how much of a
>>clueless dickhead you are, you should not be treated with the same
>>level of contempt as the pitiful stalker. Evidently, I was incorrect,
>>and if I were QZD I should be extremely annoyed to see you making
>>excuses for his behaviour and sidling up to him like a lovesick
>>teenager.
>>
>As I said... take a 'ff' [1]... you ignorant shit.
My, sometimes I really do wonder about your state of mental health.
This is a _piss poor_ response. If you really wish to be viewed in the
same light as sad little Billynomates, then you're quite welcome.
Indeed, if all you can muster in response to quite valid points is a
childish 'I don't give a fuck', then perhaps disdain _is_ all you
deserve.
>>You are a very poor friend indeed and you should be thoroughly ashamed
>>of yourself.
>>
>I have said OVER AND OVER... I HAVE NO FRIENDS HERE.
Then you are a _very sad man_.
<PV making excuses for betraying a friend in favour of having a
political 'stablemate' snipped>
w00f
Donna Evleth
There was no ridicule. Earl was not then what he is now. He had not
discovered
Internet newsgroups. It is only in this setting that he behaves in this
way. If
he behaved this way all the time, I would not stay with him.
I believe, however, that you have a deep need to believe that Earl was
somehow
"forced into exile", because you cannot understand how anyone who had the
chance to live and work in the US would not choose to do so. You will never
understand, thus trying to explain it to you is hopeless. I shall leave you
with your delusions about Earl and his "forced exile" because you so want
those
delusions to be real. Earl and I know the truth, and having told it, that
is
enough.
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <ab9ikvcbed3nkkncm...@4ax.com>, A Planet
Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>>The imported foreign immigrant laborer's wife
>>
> If you say so...
If Earl is an "imported foreign immigrant laborer" what else am I supposed
to be? Do you have another category in mind for me? If so, what?
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
slrnbkkmdk.2cl7.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx
> Le Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:23:09 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
> écrit :
While we don`t completely appreciate your writing style, Desmond,
anybody that gives PV trouble is appreciated. Certainly you are doing
God`s work! :)
I prefer Zorro like sword action to the meat axe but if, in your case, meat
axe it must be, so be it.
Chop on.
Earl
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkkmdk.2cl7.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:30:39 GMT
>
>Le Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:23:09 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> LOL... Donna has already admitted that she finds you as disgusting as
>> I do.
>
>As Donna's words (did she even use the word 'disgusting' ? I don't recall)
>were based on a completely false premise (look it up), namely yoru lying
>about what I had written, I'm not about to lose any sleep over it.
>
>As I've since taken steps to put her right on that partticular score, it
>looks like once again, you're exposed to another user of this group, as a
>habitual liar.
>
>Ho, ho, ho ... life is soooo good here in Paris.
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Why would you speak of preferring life in the U.K.? I thought you were
>> Irish? Is there something that keeps you from returning to your homeland?
>> An outstanding bench warrant... or something like that?
>
>FuckWit again reaches out to billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick and
>Shit-For-Brains#2, and cries, 'If I say he's a criminal, will you love me
>??'
>
>Not only has the expression 'as thick as PV' come to be the ultimate insult
>on news:alt.activism.death-penalty, but now your ... sorry, 'you're' (sic)
>posting style owes more to William Grüber (criminal alias Grosvenor), than
>to anyone else. How sad that you used to be respected on here ...
>
>I am proud to have been on 'the team' that pushed you over the egde (the
>list, FuckWit ... the list !!!) into complete insanity.
>
>ROTFLMAO !!
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:30:39 GMT
>Lines: 41
>Message-ID:
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>
Welcome to the Desmond Coughlan archive; the home of Desi's psychotic rants and
homosexual trolling. Please help Desmond Coughlan find the man of his dreams.
As Desi lies, the archive grows!
Dolly B.Coughlan Jr
<slrnbkkm24.2cl7.DesInaCybercaf...@cyberian.ath.cx>,
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:24:31 GMT
>
>Le Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:12:42 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>>> On 23 Aug 2003 04:39:13 GMT, billy...@aol.comnotdonko (William Robert)
>wrote:
>>>>> I'm a diplomat!
>
>>>{ snip 100 _gloriously obsessive_ lines, FuckWit sucking up to
>>> billy-'I'm-a-diplomat!!'-nodick, and accusing 'Desi' (sic) of being the
>>> root of all evil }
>
>> But you are, oh Nameless One... at least in AADP. You make William
>> Robert look like Mother Teresa. He criticized the French administration
>> for the deaths in France... IMHO, a deplorable choice of words at this
>> particular time. You LAUGHED at the murder of more than a dozen human
>> beings...
>
>Now you're going to post a 'direct "quote" [sic]' of where I included _any_
>of the usenet equivalents of 'Ha, ha !', _anywhere_ in my post on that
>particular event, aren't you, FuckWit ?
>
>No you're not, because once again, what you're doing is to 'see' things
>that aren't there, just as you did when you continued to insist that there
>was a 'giggle' after my use of the bastardised date format '9/11', followed
>by 'sic'. You hammered away at it for months and months, and when finally
>you realised that no one on news:alt.activism.death-penalty was taking you
>at all seriously, you begged me to stop using it.
>
>LOL ... you're a liar, FuckWit. A constant, habitual liar, and you just
>'got lucky' on this occasion, as Donna does not read my posts, and so was
>not able to see through your dishonesty. It is regrettable that she saw
>fit to take your word, rather than going on the evidence, i.e. my post
>(which _should_ still exist in the 'active newsreader' (sic)). I have
>since seen to it that she is aware of the exact text of my post, so
>destroying yet another example of your favourite FuckWit Patented Gimmick
>(TM), n° 166, the 'the lie becomes the truth' gimmick.
>
>'spnak' (sic) ... 'spnak' (sic) ...'spnak' (sic) ...
>
>{ snip some more gimmicks, namely FuckWit Patented Gimmicks (TM) N°
> 166 and 171 ...
> url:http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/166.html
> url:http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/171.html }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |desmond [at] zeouane [dot] org
>Yamaha YZF-R1 (2002)
>http://www.chez.com/desmondcoughlan/dp/gimmicks/
>
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cable.ntl.COM!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <"Des In a Cybercafe Near Bastille
>pasdespam_desmond"@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Culling of the French Elderly
>Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:24:31 GMT
>Lines: 46
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ikke
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <sa...@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3Sb2b.60167$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Very AOL of me I know but LOL!
AOL seems rather appropriate for a Daily Mail reader such as yourself.
I'm still coming to terms with that one...<shakes head despairingly>
Cheers
John
A Planet Visitor
>In article <prrikvot3anae524l...@4ax.com>, dirtdog wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:07:11 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq>
>> wrote:
>
>>>I have avoided mentioning your ongoing 'contest' with Mr. D. It's one I
>>>do not wish to be involved in, but I must say that I feel you were the first
>>>who wronged him, by trying to 'expose' his true name, which obviously
>>>was not even correct, but in any case, something that is just not done in
>>>Usenet.
>>
>> If what you have dribbled up to now was stupid, this is the part of
>> this extremely ill considered post which actually made me heave.
>
>Didn't notice it. I would have taken him to task, too. Jesus please=us!
>
>> Billycunt and his 'mate' (I am yet to be convinced that they are not
>> the same person) Dick Magdy tried to cause QZD to lose his job. They
>> (he) failed but they certainly tried.
>
>Failed? If it weren't for my good nature combined with some first-rate
>ineptitude on the part of my boss, _nothing_ would have come of that. As
>it stands, nothing came of that and the only reason that I didn't end up
>with carte blanche to do as I wished was the fact that I didn't argue the
>point.
>>
>> QZD is supposed to be your friend.
>
>Pushing it. let's just say that PV and I have no reason to be seriously
>at odds on any kind of personal level.
>
You are correct. I have emphasized over and over that I have no
'friends' here. This is an imaginary forum that does not, as far as I'm
concerned, lend itself to 'forming alliances,' or seeking friendship. I
am here to voice an opinion, and 'generally' try to only do so when I
wish to be confrontational to the opinion of another. This is not a
'I will praise any man who will praise me' forum. Although many here
take it as such. If all there is... is agreement... what is left to discuss?
It is one of the minor reasons that I do not provide an e-mail address
for any 'backchannel' dialog. I have my own opinions, and not one
of them requires that I agree with the opinions of anyone else. Nor
does my lack of a comment indicate I agree or disagree with the opinion
another may offer. Nor is there a 'requirement' that I condemn what
I necessarily might believe needs to be condemned, nor extol what I
necessarily might believe needs to be extolled. The best that anyone
can expect from me here... is an acknowledgement that I 'respect' them
for the way they present and argue their opinions, even if those opinions
diverge greatly from my own.
>> level of contempt as the pitiful stalker. Evidently, I was incorrect,
>> and if I were QZD I should be extremely annoyed to see you making
>> excuses for his behaviour and sidling up to him like a lovesick
>> teenager.
>
>If PV had not mentioned me then I would have regarded it as his silly,
>"on principle" conflict with young Mr Coughlan. I have no problem with this
>conflict as both participants appear to be enjoying themselves immensely.
>Any alliance with the stalkers (who are reviled by people on both sides of the
>DP debate apart from Ruch "I believe what the drooling man tells me" Wickes)
>is to be regarded with utter, utter contempt.
>
>To PV - it is all very well to give others a hard time on a.a.d-p. That's
>what it's there for. Attempting to harm others is just _not_on_. Expressing
>approval at such an attempt is also _beyond_the_pale_. I'm not asking for
>apologies or even a reply. I just hope you think a bit carefully about those
>with whom you would align yourself.
>
I align myself with no one. And the reason I have not entered into the
on-going conflict you have with William Robert, has NOTHING to do
with my having taken the side of William Robert by not doing so. I did
not enter that conflict for the same reason you have expressed on more
than one occasion that you would not embroil yourself in the comments
between the Nameless One and me. Silly me... perhaps you forget that
the Nameless One has on a number of occasions accused another poster
here of firebombing his flat, and claimed to have been 'responsible' for
having that poster incarcerated in a Federal prison for a crime. All of
that without the slightest substance of evidence. Tell me that's not a
form of 'stalking.' Don't you rather feel his comments were "attempting to
harm others"? The Nameless One, IMHO, operates on the 'principle'
of Hitler -- "The greater the lie, the greater the chance that it will be
believed."
And silly me... perhaps you have forgotten that just the other day,
the Nameless One found the murder of more than a dozen human
beings simply a source to 'make a joke,' and call those murders
'population control in Indonesia.' Coupling joking about murder,
with an implication of a bit of racism tossed in for good measure
on his part. If there is a 'requirement ' to condemn... where was
yours, or dirtdog's 'outraged' reaction to that thought?
PV
A Planet Visitor
When have I called Richard a 'racist'? In fact, I have not, and I believe that
at one point in a dialog some time ago, another poster 'criticized' ME for
not 'criticizing' Richard, for what HE felt was a 'racist' remark from
Richard. Richard's remarks that I point out here demonstrate EXACTLY what
I've expressed... that he 'doesn't like Blacks' very much. He seems to
express the belief that Whites have no responsibility for the violence that
Blacks commit. I simply refuse to accept that premise. IMHO, White
racism is TOTALLY responsible for Black violence to any greater degree
than White violence in the U.S. Blacks are no more PREDISPOSED to
violence than any other 'color.' They are DRIVEN to violence by White
racism toward them. Driven to the point that they even lose respect for
THEMSELVES...thus finding it 'easy' to not see a Black as really 'worth
something' when a Black murders another Black. Driven to a life of
violence because they are often deprived of the mainstream benefits of
the U.S. through disenfranchisement in U.S. industry and society. And
yes.. education at even the primary level, in spite of the denials of
Richard. I remember a Discovery channel documentary on North
Carolina poverty stricken Blacks, where the grandmother was showing
that she could not even buy PENCILS for her grandchild to use in
school, and could only do so, by using money from this jar she displayed....
which contained a handful of PENNIES. Could not even buy
FUCKING PENCILS!!!! Tell me that White racism doesn't contribute
to THAT!!! Is that child going to grow up believing he is EQUAL to
a White?
I am sorry that Richard's life has left him so jaded. However; I do not believe
it is racism in Richard, but rather despair... a sense of hopelessness, and an
inability to identify the root causes of his despair.
PV
A Planet Visitor
In your case... positively non-existent. And your opinion would
conflict with Horace Greeley, who remarked that "Common Sense
is not so uncommon." You are the exception to the rule expressed
by good ol' Horace.
PV
PV
>Earl
A Planet Visitor
You don't seem to grasp the meaning of IMHO. See it up there? It means
'in my humble opinion.' Given that you believe your 'opinions' are neither
'humble' nor represent 'opinions,' but you believe are based on facts that
have been handed down to you by God, I can see how you would be
confused over the use of an 'opinion.'
For all your whining and denials... I cannot help but believe, IMHO... that
you actually left the 'safety' of tenure... because you could not stand being
snickered at by your peers. Sorry about that. But you go right ahead and
deny it all you wish. You see.. I have no proof that you did... and you have
no proof that you did not.
PV
>Earl
A Planet Visitor
The Imported Foreign Immigrant Laborer's Saintly wife???? :-)
PV
>Donna Evleth
A Planet Visitor
It's always enough to be secure in your own beliefs, Donna. Regardless... I
am reminded of Euripides -- "There is no sorrow above-the loss of a
native land."
You do understand that I only presented 'my theory'... based upon the 'facts'
that both YOU and HE have provided in respect to his 'honored' position
in tenure. I certainly know NOTHING about either of you, other than what
YOU BOTH have offered here. So my question is WHY? Why such a
need to claim that it such a valued place in life to him... and then admit to
having deserted it? Had either of you not 'praised' how wonderful you had
it... and Earl not continually expressing his self-adoration, I would have no
reason to question WHY you left. It could well have been a 'dissatisfaction'
with a 'present life' THERE. The 'grass is always greener' approach. But
that is NOT what you have claimed. You have both indicated that the 'grass
could not have been greener where you were.' So WHY leave a life that
was totally fulfilled? One can only form THEORIES as to WHY, regardless
of what you SAY was the reason. I have 'my theory.'
And yes... enough is enough. But do not presume I cannot present my 'theory'
when Earl demonstrates a behavior in his posts which suggests my 'theory'
might have some validity.
PV
>Donna Evleth