Clock rules question
Brendan Burgess
point it out. I can then decide whether or not I want him to correct the
play. I will be using the paused time to think about my decision.
Last night, I made an illegal move and my opponent just restarted my clock
and told me to play the move legally. Could I have claimed that by starting
my clock he had condoned my move and then finished his move. If so, I could
roll and play my next move.
brendan
Gregg Cattanach
No. If he verbally informs you to correct your move and the restarts your
clock, his hitting the clock doesn't mean he forfeits his roll and move.
You must make a legal move, then hit your clock, and the game proceeds
normally. You shouldn't get to stop the clock to think up a legal move.
What else should he do, but turn your time back on?
Also, deciding whether to condone or make him re-do an illegal move is not
one of the valid reasons for stopping the clock. The only valid reasons are
a) to start a new game
b) to offer a concession
c) to announce intention to take a break in the match
d) to retrieve fallen dice
e) to contest an opponent's action
f) to summon Director.
I don't believe (e) includes condoning or re-doing an illegal move.
--
Gregg Cattanach
Zox at GamesGrid, VOG, Zone
http://gateway.to/backgammon
ICQ #2266410
gcattana...@prodigy.net
"Brendan Burgess" <wild...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:gyhq4.11149$J9....@news.indigo.ie...
Julian Hayward
<wild...@indigo.ie> writes
>
>Last night, I made an illegal move and my opponent just restarted my clock
>and told me to play the move legally. Could I have claimed that by starting
>my clock he had condoned my move and then finished his move.
Unless there are some specific clock rules I don't know about, the way
to condone your opponent's illegal move is to roll the dice, not to
start the clock (particularly as he had actually asked - though if he
had said nothing and just hit the clock I think you might just have to
agree to stop both clocks and sort out the confusion).
One reason I find clocks unappealing is that they introduce so many
potentially awkward situations like these - which most players can
debate until the cows come home and the occasional one argues over the
board. Backgammon is not like chess, where the actual time required for
moves is fairly constant and the clock regulates thinking time. A
backgammon clock directs the play - a player can be coerced into sub-
optimal moves by time trouble, cubing early rather than risk a long
sequence of single points and playing running games and blitzes (which
tend to be decided quickly) instead of backgames and hitting contests,
and a player with time advantage can deliberately take the opposite tack
in order to run his opponent out of time. Still, they seem to be here to
stay, so had best learn to live with them...
--
Julian Hayward 'Booles' on FIBS jul...@ratbag.demon.co.uk
+44-1344-640656 http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always said I wanted to be somebody - I should have been more specific.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan Burgess
"One reason I find clocks unappealing is that they introduce so many
potentially awkward situations like these - which most players can
debate until the cows come home and the occasional one argues over the
board"
We have started playing with the clock in Dublin and it's really a great
addition.
The slow players have speeded up and the fast players have slown down !
Tournament rounds tend to finish simultaneously, which is great for
everyone. Backgammon is now a spectator sport, with both players playing at
a reasonable speed.
There have been no arguments - I have raised a couple of issues on
rec.games.backgammon. All of these were settled amiably over the board, but
I just want to get other opinions in case of a serious dispute in a major
tournament.
Anyway I am packing my suitcases to go to the Paris Open and I am sure I
will have a lot more clock issues arising from that tournament.
Brendan
P.S. What's the French for "Director" ? "Monsieur Le Directeur" ?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Michael Crane
Rule 4.0 Stopping The Clock states, "..... e) to contest an opponent's
action or to summon the Director."
If you are contesting an action and it is under discussion then both clocks
should be stopped and the discussion continued to a conclusion. However, if
it is, as stated by Brendan, an illegal move, then Brendan's opponent didn't
need to discuss it but simply ask Brendan to replay it legally and in
Brendan's time. You cannot pause the clock to think about an opponent's
illegal play - this thinking about it is done in your time.
Brendan's opponent didn't condone the illegal play by starting Brendan's
clock (thus 'ending' his own move) but exercised his right to have the move
re-played.
As one of the busiest tournament directors in the world I am wholly for the
use of clocks. They are a great tool to ensure the smooth running and timely
ending of matches and tournaments. At Biba tournaments they are used as a
'persuader inasmuch as I trawl the playing areas checking the scores at set
times and issue warnings that if the points scored don't reach a certain
level by my return (15 minutes later) then the remaining segment of the
match will continue with clocks. I find that does the trick most of the
time!
Michael Crane
Brendan Burgess <wild...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:gyhq4.11149$J9....@news.indigo.ie...
> If my opponent makes an illegal move, I assume that I pause the clock to
> point it out. I can then decide whether or not I want him to correct the
> play. I will be using the paused time to think about my decision.
>
> Last night, I made an illegal move and my opponent just restarted my clock
> and told me to play the move legally. Could I have claimed that by
starting
Julian Hayward
<wild...@indigo.ie> writes
>
>We have started playing with the clock in Dublin and it's really a great
>addition.
>The slow players have speeded up and the fast players have slown down !
>Tournament rounds tend to finish simultaneously, which is great for
>everyone. Backgammon is now a spectator sport, with both players playing at
>a reasonable speed.
The big advantage of the clocks is speeding up slow players - one of the
most frustrating things is to be stuck with a real laggard in a
tournament (and being a director - I had one of my tournaments totally
screwed by a 90-minute 5 point game!). I'm rather surprised that they
make the fast players slow down at all, though.
Perhaps some of my feeling against them comes because where I've played
they tend to be imposed as a punishment for slow play - and the slow
player and his opponent both get singled out for special treatment. I've
never played a tourney where they were standard issue, with no stigma
attached to having one...
Gregg Cattanach
The standard rules here in the US give even a shorter time. For a *7* point
match each player gets 35 minutes. The formula is 5 minutes per point per
player (if the clocks are used from the beginning.) If we got that extra 10
minutes you describe, probably there would almost never be time trouble for
reasonable play.
Personally, I don't like the clocks that much, as it can create time
problems if several games evolve into deep backgames with no double-outs,
for example, or one of those repetitive recyling games where the primer
continually sends back checkers to try to retieve a second blot. In chess
the time limits are based on time for moves, instead of the entire match. I
think the correct usage of clocks in tournaments is to only apply them to
matches in progress that are already going very slow. The TD or assistants
need to watch the draw sheets to look for players that are holding up the
brackets, etc.
We used clocks in all matches in our weekly tournaments here, mostly to make
sure we finish before midnight (Thursday). I've only lost twice on time, but
I don't like some of the tactics that can be employed by the player that has
more time left, (like failing to doubles at 2-away, 2-away when holding an
advantage, trying to force 3 or 4 games instead of ending it with this
game.) I think it creates some 'bad' backgammon at times....
Just my 2 cents.
--
Gregg Cattanach
Zox at GamesGrid, Zone
"Gavin Anderson" <brit...@mbf.sphere.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:88ian4$sr$2...@news1.sphere.ad.jp...
> My only experience with clocks in a tournament has been the Japan Open,
> where clocks are used as a matter of course.
>
> Perhaps one reason why clocks aren't too contentious over here is that the
> time allowed seems fairly generous. I don't know what's standard in the
US,
> but in Japan each player gets 35 minutes for a 5pt match (so you could
> theoretically have a match lasting 70 minutes). Most matches never get
close
> to flag dropping, so the clocks are not adding undue pressure to the game,
> but do serve to keep the really slow players in check.
jdrexel
controls where a player will lose the game on time even if he/she is one
move from checkmate. The delay tactics that Greg C mentioned in Backgammon
take place in chess too and can really spoil a game. I like Greg's idea of
using clocks only on matches that are taking too long.
john drexel
Drexel at GamesGrid, Gamesite2000.