Gangsta Rap R.I.P.
APage20301
In article <3259F9...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>, El Surround
<ms...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> writes:
> The
>fact remains that Gangsta Rap is a legit and effective social
>commentary.
Eh? What type of "social commentary" do you get from "A Bitch is a Bitch"?
Gangsta rap lost any claims to political truth shortly after "Death
Certificate". Most gangsta rap albums, for every song of truth, have three
songs about imaginary "bitches" and fantasy shoot-out sequences. Political
rap provides all of the "social commentary" rap needs. I mean, did Ice
cube ever tell you anything Brand Nubian didn't or couldn't? Gangsta rap
is dead.
Out.
Alan
kari orr
In article <53v7tu$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com (APage20301) says:
>
>In article <3259F9...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>, El Surround
><ms...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> writes:
>
>> The
>>fact remains that Gangsta Rap is a legit and effective social
>>commentary.
>
>Eh? What type of "social commentary" do you get from "A Bitch is a Bitch"?
Ask Bahamdiah (true honey bunz), or Jeru( the bichez) and then get Too
$hort's opinion. Without a doubt, the scandalous women has always been
a topic of man, and so you will always see it in our culture in various
manifestations. The implications of your question suggest that you
don't think there is value in the social commentary.
>Gangsta rap lost any claims to political truth shortly after "Death
>Certificate".
What is political truth? What political rappers are still out there.
Political not social. A social issue is deciding what a hat to wear
to school. A political issue is the school ( type of government) not
allowing any hats to be worn. The two are related, but you deal
differently with either. in the social issue, you make your choice
based on personal/cultural preferences. the political issue, you would
need to change that rule through some type of political action. contacting
the school, maybe having a referendum.
For the most part Death certificate wasn't a political album,
bird in the hand, man's best friend alive on arrival, horny lil devli
black korea, true to the game, color blind and us, were all songs
dealing with social issues, that are social first and then political.
the last
political album i can think of is paris the devil made me do it. almost
every album out now, is a socially conscious album. Some are not
socially responsible, and make crime, sex, drugs look very attractive.
which in my personal view is negative.
Most gangsta rap albums, for every song of truth, have three
>songs about imaginary "bitches" and fantasy shoot-out sequences.
Defining g-rap is tough enough, but that ratio is incredible.
take slick ricks a children's story, using any definition that song
is a gangsta rap song. It is moslty fictional, but there is truth
in that fiction. Trife life by mobb deep, is another fictional account
that holds truth. But i'm pretty sure most people would class trife life
as g-rap and children's story as non-g-rap. here is another one that
you might try for your g-rap test.
the crew by a tribe called quest - tip sees his wife being unfaithful
he meditates murder, then commits it.
Is it G-rap?
>Political rap provides all of the "social commentary" rap needs.
I doubt it, there are hardly any political rap groups or persons in
the genre. Most comment on social issues, although some are seen as
more valuable than others.
>I mean, did Ice cube ever tell you anything Brand Nubian didn't
or couldn't? Gangsta rap is dead.
>Out.
>Alan
yeah ice cube hit me and the rest of my down South brethren where
puba, jamar, and sadat weren't trying to reach. they didn't do
dead homiez, they didn't do a bird in the hand, they didn't do heaven.
a lot of so called eastern social rap groups don't know how, or
aren't trying to reach people outside of the tri-state. And that is
the real reason, that we are in the NYC vs the world confrontation.
if you're trying to speak to the nation of black, make a real attempt
to reach more than just your neighbors, some of your brothers don't
know the supreme mathematics, and you don't know about the remnants
of slavery.
G-rap is a label, that people use to label things they don't like regardless
of content. If people really used good definitions, a lot more of
the mc's would be g-rappers. and then they would see the merit
in g-rap.
k. orr
house of phat beats
Ike A Newton IV
Gangsta rap ain't dead. Only way Gangsta rap will die, if these problem
situations stop in the ghetto. As long as people see corruption in the
hood, gangsta rap will always be around. And how you know the shit is
fantasy? Do you live in all these places 24 hours a day? Just cause your
hood is different don't mean everyone's elses is the same. For instanced,
after we were reviewed in the October '96 issue of Rap Sheet, I had a
booking agent called me and ask if where I'm at now (Knoxville, TN) is as
country as they say or just like everywhere else.
It's like everywhere else. Last 2 weeks, the police shot 2 people to
death, 1 dropped his gun while running. Even though the police saw that,
they walked up on him and kept shooting him (25 total bullets & 100
witnesses), the second person had a knife and got shot to death. They
closed just about all the clubs cause someone gets killed just about every
night. There's drivebys (people claiming red & blue). Even one of my boys
got caught up in a driveby. He got hit in the arm & a 5 year old girl was
murdered which made national news. Plus check out Top Authorities last
tape where they talk about their concert here. They sais people was
shooting up in the concert (it's the last song on side one), but actually
it was just chairs falling, there was only shooting out side.
So, you can't judge real or fake unless you lived in their shoes in the
same hood.
--
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&&& &"""& & && & & & & & & & & & && & xxxx&&&
&&& & & & & & &&& & &&& & & & & & & & & &&&
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T H E G I N . U . W I N E C L I Q U E
(c) Str8-Gin Records 1996, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
http://www.armory.com/~ginuwine . ginu...@deeptht.armory.com
: str...@korrnet.org :
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
> In article <3259F9...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>, El Surround
> <ms...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> writes:
>
> > The
> >fact remains that Gangsta Rap is a legit and effective social
> >commentary.
>
> Eh? What type of "social commentary" do you get from "A Bitch is a Bitch"?
> Gangsta rap lost any claims to political truth shortly after "Death
> Certificate". Most gangsta rap albums, for every song of truth, have three
> songs about imaginary "bitches" and fantasy shoot-out sequences. Political
> rap provides all of the "social commentary" rap needs. I mean, did Ice
> cube ever tell you anything Brand Nubian didn't or couldn't? Gangsta rap
> is dead.
>
> Out.
>
> Alan
gangsta rap aint dead, and its not necessarily trying to speak about
political truth. (whatever that is) The thing that gangsta rap DOES do is
put things that ARE happening in the forefront. There ARE shootings and
killings everyday, there ARE drug-dealers, there ARE women who have no
self-respect and trade their bodies for materialism. These are all
problems that need to be addressed, and the thing that people are the
maddest about is:
GANGSTA RAP MAKES MONEY!!!!
These young gangsta rappers (and GANGSTAS on the street for that matter)
are a LEGITIMATE THREAT because they make money. This is the next stage
in moving to the next socio-economic level in this society. All class
struggles are violent, and the problem now is that in America, too few
people control too much of the money, and some people (gangstas) are now
risking their LIVES and FREEDOM to move up to the next level.
You cant rap forever, but the money that you do make off of rap can be
invested in some other interests so that you can take care of those around
you, i.e. your family and friends, the 'hood.
everyone is not capable of going to college, and its not just the money,
some people just don't have the college mentality, some people just don't
have the desire to be in school. hell, my grandfather didnt go past the
third grade, but he BUILT the house my mother grew up in Houston WITH HIS
BARE HANDS. But, in this society, a degree pretty much reflects your
'worth' in society. each one of us has a role in the society, everyone
in the village has a job to do. gangsta rap reflects the fact that we
should not judge others, because no man is without sin, and even thought
the next man is a thug or gangsta, he still is a MAN. he is not just a
dark glasses & athletic clothes wearing media icon for crime, he/she can
be something if we put our faith in them.
Most popular gangsta rappers are local heroes, i.e. ghetto
celeberties. That's because in most 'hoods, the kids have NO HEROES or
ROLE-MODELS. I took a class called political entertainment and the media
industry has a REAL agenda to hurt people of color. Did you know there
has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF A
NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
character?? (It goes deep and even gets subliminal) The media (which
includes film and music) is controlled by people who want to see you kept
down, because you are political pawns in their game, and BLACK PEOPLE
SPEND THE MOST MONEY ON THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY (95%) BUT ONLY CONTROL
LESS THAN 3% OF THE INDUSTRY!!!
but now suddenly, everyone claims that gangsta rap is causing all the ills
in society.
No one said anything when John Wayne or Arnold Swartzenagger killed
hundreds of people in their movies, or when heavy metal groups depict
violence and satanic worship, but when gangsta rappers start making
money, now its LETS BAN RAP!!!
Hip-hop needs gangsta rap, no matter what its about, because the gangsta
rappers are the ones willing to stand up and say things that offend
people, and in this day and age, some people NEED to be offended.
Stay UP!!!
--
OVERTIME, Puttin N WorK fo' Dat Dirty SOUTH
CEO/Publisher
RAI$E UP!! Magazine & Productions
PO BOX 2369
Prairie View, TX 77446-2369(Home of Prairie View A&M University,SWAC)
Yes, TEXAS like LEXUS niggaz
1.800.506.3977 enter *5 then your message
irc: #DIRTY_SOUTH on the UnderNet
Aztec-Assassin
APage20301 (apage...@aol.com) wrote:
: Eh? What type of "social commentary" do you get from "A Bitch is a Bitch"?
I get some social commentary from the song. I get that a lot of males in
this society have a macho/chauvenistic attitude toward their sisters and
mothers. Why does a man feel empowered when he calls a woman a 'bitch'? I
see that their is a self-hate in calling a sister a bitch (Blacks,
Latinos, Whites, Asians etc. all do this) and there has to be some
underlying cause. I see this specifically in the Black and Latino (the only
ones I personally know of) where the mother is often the backbone of the
family. Is this (calling our mothers and sisters 'bitches') just an American
thing or representative of male society all over the world?
: Gangsta rap is dead.
wishful thinking.
pce-out,
--
=============THE HIP-HOP ZONE=============
thur. 5-6 pm on Community Cable Channel 27
The ONLY hip-hop video show in New Mexico
Andrew Arellano hip...@unm.edu
==========================================
ice...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
You made some good points, but...
: down, because you are political pawns in their game, and BLACK PEOPLE
: SPEND THE MOST MONEY ON THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY (95%) BUT ONLY CONTROL
: LESS THAN 3% OF THE INDUSTRY!!!
You're saying 12% (the percentage of blacks in america) spend 95%, and
88% (everybody else) spend 5%???!!!
APage20301
In article <540ooq$a...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
(kari orr) writes:
Kari, I'm goping to dismantle this point by point.
>Ask Bahamdiah (true honey bunz), or Jeru( the bichez) and then get Too
>$hort's opinion. Without a doubt, the scandalous women has always been
>a topic of man, and so you will always see it in our culture in various
>manifestations. The implications of your question suggest that you
>don't think there is value in the social commentary.
Wrong. I don't think most gangsta rap (meaning rappers who refer to
themselves as gangsters or "G"s, this includes rappers like Fat Joe, who
calls himself a gangster, etc.) IS social commentary. Commentary requires
thought. If I say, "Niggas kill each other", this isn't social commentary.
It is a statement. Commentary requires that one look at a situation,
analyze it, then speak on it. How much thought do you really think Ice
Cube put into writing "A Bitch Is a Bitch". Do you think he researched it
and looked for statistics on how many women seek material goods in
exchange for sex? Do you think he conducted phone surveys throughout South
Central? No. Same applies to Bahamadia and Jeru. You think Jeru read a
bunch of sociology books before he wrote "The Bytchez"? No. He got dissed
by a few females, got mad, and wrote the song, IMO.
>
>(I write...)
>>Gangsta rap lost any claims to political truth shortly after "Death
>>Certificate".
>(you respond...)
>What is political truth?
Something that can be verified as factual upon close inspection and
scientifically proven. It is a political truth that America has a
representative government based on the majority. Some people say it
doesn't represent everyone or it is controlled by the rich (and the
President is elected by the Electoral College), but for the most part the
above statement is true. Nobody in America (except the Prez if the E.C.
discards the popular vote) can be elected by 49.9% of the population.
Majority rules. A political truth. How would Ice Cube prove black women
are "bitches"? Chuck D, for example, had many lyrics that could be
researched and verified, including statistics he used. this is why
political rap is so much more of a political force than gangsta rap will
ever be. Gangsta rap is based on rhetoric. Political rap, by contrast, is
based much more on verifiable facts.
> What political rappers are still out there.
KRS, Poor Righteous Teachers, Brand Nubian, shall I continue?
>Political not social. A social issue is deciding what a hat to wear
>to school.
Wrong. That's a fashion issue. A social issue is, for example, the
increasing spread of H.I.V.
A political issue is the school ( type of government) not
>allowing any hats to be worn.
Actually, the social issue would be how much control can government
(represented by the school) control the lives of minors? Is it in their
best interest? These are social question. The politics come in when people
try to legislate, protests occur, etc.
The two are related, but you deal
>differently with either. in the social issue, you make your choice
>based on personal/cultural preferences. the political issue, you would
>need to change that rule through some type of political action.
contacting
>the school, maybe having a referendum.
>For the most part Death certificate wasn't a political album,
>
>bird in the hand, man's best friend alive on arrival, horny lil devli
>black korea, true to the game, color blind and us, were all songs
>dealing with social issues, that are social first and then political.
>the last
Well, Cube expects you to move to change some of these things (Devils
ruling over us, his belief that Koreans own all the inner city businesses,
etc.). Hence, he is calling for political action. Get it?
>
>political album i can think of is paris the devil made me do it. almost
>every album out now, is a socially conscious album. Some are not
>socially responsible, and make crime, sex, drugs look very attractive.
>which in my personal view is negative.
The last part I agree on.
>
>Most gangsta rap albums, for every song of truth, have three
>>songs about imaginary "bitches" and fantasy shoot-out sequences.
>
>Defining g-rap is tough enough, but that ratio is incredible.
>take slick ricks a children's story, using any definition that song
>is a gangsta rap song. It is moslty fictional, but there is truth
>in that fiction. Trife life by mobb deep, is another fictional account
>that holds truth. But i'm pretty sure most people would class trife life
>as g-rap and children's story as non-g-rap. here is another one that
>you might try for your g-rap test.
>the crew by a tribe called quest - tip sees his wife being unfaithful
>he meditates murder, then commits it.
>
>
Gangsta rap, IMO, is when a rapper only makes music which fits within the
category of what the public percieves to be gangsta rap. A gangsta rapper
will NEVER rap about backing down when faced with conflict. Gangsta rap
was originally rap about LA gangs and gang life, i.e. vintage Ice T.
Later, non-gangsters like NWA opened up the definition as one for criminal
life in general. However, gang terminology like G's, ballers (a Blood
term, according to Monster Kody). Even Hieroglyphics call themselves
Hi-Rollas. According to Monster Kody, this is a Crip term for a big time
drug dealer (baller is the equivbalent Blood term). However, since Hiero
doesn't focus SOLELY on raps about criminal life, they don't qualify as
G-rap. Fat Jo and Mobb Deep do, because they make repeated and constant
references to murder, materialism (a centerpiece to the hustler
mentality), etc. There isn't much political commentary in just looking out
the window, seeing someone murdered, and rapping about how you murdered
someone. This is an eyewitness fantasizing about being the killer. How is
that political commentary. It would be like a reporter on a crime scene
talking about, "This is Real G reporting live from a homocide on Florence
and Normandy. Some nigga got served! Straight blasted!!! In fact, I was
the one that served that nigga, 'cuase I keep it real!" That's some old
fantasy, Hollywood drama bullshit. If niggas want to be actors, they
should stick to making movies and leave rapping to the MCs.
Out,
Alan
kari orr
>Kari, I'm goping to dismantle this point by point.
returning the favor. Before you go on, please define social commentary
and give examples of which.
>Wrong. I don't think most gangsta rap (meaning rappers who refer to
>themselves as gangsters or "G"s, this includes rappers like Fat Joe, who
>calls himself a gangster, etc.) IS social commentary. Commentary requires
>thought.
Are you suggesting that havok of south central cartel and havok
of mobb deep didn't think about what they were going to write?
They didn't think about the implications of those words on impressionable
listeners, but i'm willing to bet what got recorded was almost
exactly what they wanted to say.
You're using "think" in a way alien to its definition; Maybe you mean
write something responsible to the listeners, and more thought in
areas outside of the lyrics, the actual words.
> If I say, "Niggas kill each other", this isn't social commentary.
>It is a statement. Commentary requires that one look at a situation,
>analyze it, then speak on it.
I'll agree for now
How much thought do you really think Ice
>Cube put into writing "A Bitch Is a Bitch". Do you think he researched it
>and looked for statistics on how many women seek material goods in
>exchange for sex? Do you think he conducted phone surveys throughout South
>Central? No.
How much time did Brand Nubian(a group that you consider political)
put into researching for slow down. the use of academia in hip hop
is not needed to comment on a social situation. Take Huckleberry fin.
My english teacher would argue that there is a lot of social commentary
in that novel, but i personally doubt that Mark Twain did any real
research into writing that book. The same can be said for a lot of
so called political hip hop. Air hoodlum by public enemy.
Chuck didn't study case histories, or conduct personal interviews
to write that song. He might have read it in the paper, saw it on the
news, or even gotten a specific story word of mouth, but that
story is very basic, and anyone so disposed could write a similar one.
with just the grain of the idea, and no research.
>>(I write...)
>>>Gangsta rap lost any claims to political truth shortly after "Death
>>>Certificate".
>>(you respond...)
>>What is political truth?
>Something that can be verified as factual upon close inspection and
>scientifically proven.
niggas kill niggas. You can look up fbi crime statistics and see
most murders of black men, are done by other black men. if you wanted
to you could research murders in new york city, and find the ambush
plots talked about by both Jeru (not the average) and Mobb deep (trife
life).
It is a political truth that America has a
>representative government based on the majority. Some people say it
>doesn't represent everyone or it is controlled by the rich (and the
>President is elected by the Electoral College), but for the most part the
>above statement is true. Nobody in America (except the Prez if the E.C.
>discards the popular vote) can be elected by 49.9% of the population.
>Majority rules. A political truth.
wrong. 10 people in a population. election day comes through.
7 people decide to vote. 3 for George clinton, 2 for Boss parrot
and 2 for Pinepple dole. Clinton wins control over the entire
state, with just 30% of the vote. But not including the
people that didn't vote, more people voted against him, than
voted for him.
Your statement is wrong on technicalities, but the thought process
behind it, impies you have a binary system, which is wrong also.
but even discounting that, majority has never ruled, because majority
doesn't exercise that right. This is a representative government,
and not a direct one. But we could argue this on another group.
How would Ice Cube prove black women
>are "bitches"? Chuck D, for example, had many lyrics that could be
>researched and verified, including statistics he used. this is why
>political rap is so much more of a political force than gangsta rap will
>ever be. Gangsta rap is based on rhetoric. Political rap, by contrast, is
>based much more on verifiable facts.
rhetoric that i read just a bit ago - chuck d welcome to the terror dome.
the vast majority of his ideas are based on rhetoric. The same
with ras kass, although ras uses a lot more academic research to
back it up.
with respect to G-rap and P-rap, you can research and verify any of the
concepts that they are talking about, verification is not an issue.
intent is.
>> What political rappers are still out there.
>
>KRS, Poor Righteous Teachers, Brand Nubian, shall I continue?
krs political? Maybe a case can be made for him and poor righteous,
but i think they are more socially oriented than politically.
brand nubian, not even during all for one. there most powerful
critiques on society (slow down, wake up etcetera) aren't based
in any degree on accepted scientific facts,
>Wrong. That's a fashion issue. A social issue is, for example, the
>increasing spread of H.I.V.
>Well, Cube expects you to move to change some of these things (Devils
>ruling over us, his belief that Koreans own all the inner city businesses,
>etc.). Hence, he is calling for political action. Get it?
where are you getting this from? He's not calling for action
by political means, neither is chuck or Paris. the problems in our
community can't be solved by politics or policy. Maybe they
are calling for the real leaders in our community to do something,
but political action is not what they are referring to.
>
>Gangsta rap, IMO, is when a rapper only makes music which fits within the
>category of what the public percieves to be gangsta rap.
the public does not know what g-rap is and what it isn't. People
think vell barkardy is a gangsta rapper.
>A gangsta rapper
>will NEVER rap about backing down when faced with conflict.
how much have you heard?
Gangsta rap
>was originally rap about LA gangs and gang life, i.e. vintage Ice T.
Maybe you need to define g-rap, because the things in g-rap today
that were talked about in vintage ice-t were in rap before ice t.
There isn't much political commentary in just looking out
>the window, seeing someone murdered, and rapping about how you murdered
>someone. This is an eyewitness fantasizing about being the killer. How is
>that political commentary.
that tells me more about the person, than it does the situation, you
can view it as empirical evidence of the mindstate that some, way too
many, of our generation.
holler at me.
k.orr
house of phat beats/
APage20301
In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
writes:
>my grandfather didnt go past the
>third grade, but he BUILT the house my mother grew up in Houston WITH
HIS
>BARE HANDS.
Would any gangsta rapper rap about some shit like this? Hell no! And men
like your grandfather are a reality in the ghetto, too. I could watch the
news to see some brothers got shot. If gangster rappers were artists, they
would be able to articulate on a WIDE range of topics, instead of just the
same shit that's on the evening news every night.
Out.
Alan
Gangsta Rap RIP "Artists progress while others remain the same"
APage20301
In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
writes:
> Did you know there
>has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF
A
>NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
>without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
>character??
Independence Day????
kari orr
In article <54e48u$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com (APage20301) says:
>Independence Day????
his wife had to be a stripper didn't she?
not a secretary, not a fast food worker, not a teacher, not a lawyer
but a stripper. That actress played herself, nothing came of her being
a stripper, maybe one line in reference, made by the first lady.
but then again, i payed for me and my girl to go see that and
mission impossible, who's the bigger fool?
k.orr
house of phat beats
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
> >Gangsta rap, IMO, is when a rapper only makes music which fits within the
> >category of what the public percieves to be gangsta rap.
>
This statement is true and is the problem. Most critics in the rap
industry support 'hip-hop', which to me is a code-word for a particular
style of rap music, because they try to define what hip-hop is. When
they like some music, they call it 'hip-hop', if they don't they try to
use labels and call it something else, disassociating the music they don't
like. THE SOURCE made 'gangsta rap' synonymous with poor quality music,
without substance, which is not true. When a gangsta rapper raps, he may
or may not be talking about something that he did or has seen, but he is
talking about something that is happening or has happened. To me there is
no difference in a studio gangsta rapper and a hip-hop freestyler, they
both are rapping about nothing for no reason.
> the public does not know what g-rap is and what it isn't. People
> think vell barkardy is a gangsta rapper.
This is another true statement. People think gangster rap is just about
gangbanging, guns, and dope which also is not necessarily true. Just like
people say there is such a thing as 'hip-hop culture', there is a
gangster rap culture. There are many people who listen to gangster rap
and actually live the lifestyle of the music, which is doing whatever you
need to do to handle your business, just be willing to take the
consequences of your actions. (Which is not necessarily a good thing)
Most people who don't really listen to gangsta rap music don't hear a lot
of the hidden meaning in the music. There is a lot of communication going
on between rappers. Take the basic example, the 2Pac & Snoop song, '2 of
Amerikaz Most Wanted' This song is about how two young Black Men, lived
a gangsta lifestyle, rapped about it, overcame the odds and succeeded.
When this happened, the system turned against them, trying to take their
success away. But, the real moral of the song is that THEY BOTH DEFEATED
THE SYSTEM. They both walked out of court-- FREE MEN. Their point was not
wether they were guilty or not, but that they won in court, and can still
make money doing what they were doing, LEGALLY. In the American legal
system, its not what you know, its what you can prove, and in this
crooked system, what you can prove is 99% of the time directly related to
HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE. This the same reason everyone is mad at OJ, he
had enough cash to beat the system, and ITS ALL LEGAL, it can't be
contested. ("My dream is to own a fly casino, like Bugsy Seagal, and DO IT
ALL LEGAL....")
There is no real justice or fair representation in America, THE REAL
GANGSTAS make the laws!!
This is what fuels the gangsta rap mentality.
Gangsta rap isn't about freestyles, its about paystyles.
Even though 'hip-hop' started as an artform, it is now a big business. Its
serving no purpose if the people doing the music can't make the bulk of
the money from it. Your fooling yourself if you believe anything else.
>
> >A gangsta rapper
> >will NEVER rap about backing down when faced with conflict.
>
> how much have you heard?
He probably has not heard much, because most gangsta rappers rap about
how to NOT catch bids, but they do rap believe in perserving the codes of
the streets. (Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.)
> Gangsta rap
> >was originally rap about LA gangs and gang life, i.e. vintage Ice T.
Yes, but now its transformed into much more. Just like originally hip-hop
was about crews rhyming & breaking to prevent violence on the streets, now
its something much bigger. Too many people who don't really listen to
gangsta rap trivialize it.
> There isn't much political commentary in just looking out
> >the window, seeing someone murdered, and rapping about how you murdered
> >someone. This is an eyewitness fantasizing about being the killer. How is
> >that political commentary.
>
> that tells me more about the person, than it does the situation, you
> can view it as empirical evidence of the mindstate that some, way too
> many, of our generation.
>
The biggest problem within gangsta rap is that it directly addresses moral
issues. It is technically music for adults, because it speaks on adult
topics. Gangsta rappers talk mostly about sex, drugs, violence, the
criminal justice system, and the things that happen and exist in these
circles. These are serious issues, and if you dwell in them, you have to
willing to take the consequences, the worst being incarceration and
DEATH.
As for political commentary, I can name countless gangsta rap songs that
address issues. All gangsta rap songs aren't just about murdering people,
you're trivializing again.
Another problem I have is, why must gangsta rap have a justification
(political or social commentary) to exist? No one makes 'hip-hop' artists
justify why they rap.
My final statement is that I believe gangsta rap is immortal, because too
many people support it. There are hundreds of gangsta rap groups all over
the South who are making money and moves without any of the big industry
backing or even videos. IT IS THE RETURN TO TRUE UNDERGROUND MUSIC, the
new frontier for rap. Most gangsta rappers have been popular on the
streets for years before they get any national acclaim. (Geto Boyz,
Eightball & MJG being prime examples)
As long as there are conditions in neighborhoods that creates
gangsterism, there will be gangsta rap.
"Niggaz jumped across the line,
The movies got these boys fucked up in the mind,
not to mention the
wine & codeine syrup combined
easy access to nines, and shit talkin hoez that's fine,
and all they got time fo' is four swisher dimes
committin' crimes amped off water and some exaggerated rhyme
So if being hard aint in yo heart,
Then dont start--niggaz'll tear yo weak mind apart!!"
Bun B of UGK (UnderGroundKingz, from the song, TOUCHED)
a gangsta rapper.
Stay UP!!
--
OVERTIME, Puttin N WorK fo' Dat Dirty SOUTH
CEO/Publisher
RAI$E UP!! Magazine & Productions
PO BOX 2369
Prairie View, TX 77446-2369(Home of Prairie View A&M University,SWAC)
'Wassup' B. David Harrison
On 20 Oct 1996, APage20301 wrote:
> In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> writes:
>
> > Did you know there
> >has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF
> A
> >NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
> >without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
> >character??
>
> Independence Day????
>
This is a stretch... but, Stripper girlfriend? Not totally bad
(especially not in my book) but could be a real problem for people on the
far right.
David Harrison
Live from Seattle
"I'll let you break me off, but I won't let you break my heart"
-Pharcyde "Groupie Therapy"
Malik
> So, you can't judge real or fake unless you lived in their shoes in the
> same hood.
it's not the realism of gangsta rap I have a problem with, everyone
knows this shit goes on, but it's the mothafuckas glamorizing it that
pisses me off...all these mothafuckas talkin bout how they blast a kid
when they ain't ever pick up a gun...it's fine to talk about what goes
on in the hood, but how about more songs on how we can change things
instead of promoting genocide
Malik
Malik
APage20301 wrote:
>
> In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> writes:
>
> >has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF
> A
> >NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
> >without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
> >character??
Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 3, Dawn Of The Dead
Malik
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
> APage20301 wrote:
> >
> > In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> > flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> > writes:
> >
> > > Did you know there
> > >has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF
> > A
> > >NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
> > >without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
> > >character??
>
> Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 3, Dawn Of The Dead
>
> Malik
These are both Horror movies with fictious monsters & DEATH. When I speak
of negative connotations, it includes a lot of things. Death is one of
them. Why must Black poeple always be associated with death (either
killing or being killed)???
Other negative things that we observed during this course study were:
1. Black people always get killed in the movies, sometimes for no
apparent reason.
2. When Black people do get killed, the majority of the time they get
multilated, often with their heads being blown/chopped off. This is
significant because subliminally everyone knows that if you get your head
cut/blown off, you are dead, there is no guessing to it. Just watch
movies now and look for this trait, it will suprise you how many times
when a Black person gets killed they are either mutilated, eaten, or have
their heads removed.
3. Black people are always depicted with faults that make them
incomplete. In most movies where they are teamed with a white co-star,
there is ALWAYS a flaw in the Black person's being or character. Good
examples are: Lethal Weapon (he was old and needed his younger partner),
Shawshank Redemption (he was the most intelligent convict with access to
anything from the outside world, but had never figured out that he could
escape, it took the white man to do this)
4. They categorize Black people in the movies & tv into on of five basic
categories: coons, mammies, tragic mulattoes, toms, and brutal Black
buck (criminal)
Read the book Ceramic Uncles & Celluloid Mammies by Patricia A. Turner for
a good explaination of these categories.
5. Black people are always presented as only physical beings, i.e. animals.
Even the Black filmmakers fail to get away from these stereotypes
And in Independence Day, his wife was a stripper, which has a negative
moral connotation to most people. How come she could not be a secretary,
work in fastfood, a beautician, or even a housewife, hell anything
else?? This stuff is very subliminal and it exists in EVERY MOVIE. The
same people who control the media control the motion picture industry and
have preset political agendas that they use to influence politics, most
of the time it is biased against Black people. How do you think police
agencies come up with the criminal profiles that they use? They get them
from the MEDIA. And in this society YOUNG+BLACK=CRIMINAL, which is not
good. This is why i support gangsta rap, because it tells a story that no
one else can tell but YOUNG BLACK MEN. The only way to solve a problem is
to listen to those who supposedly cause the problems, the accused. We are
supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but the media has another
plan.....
ONE-EYED MONSTER SERVING ITS PURPOSE
Stay Tuned & Stay UP!!!
This sh!t gets DEEP
Like the DEPTHS OF THE SOUTH
--
OVERTIME, Puttin N WorK fo' Dat Dirty SOUTH
CEO/Publisher
RAI$E UP!! Magazine & Productions
PO BOX 2369
Prairie View, TX 77446-2369(Home of Prairie View A&M University,SWAC)
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
In article <54e3m8$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com
(APage20301) wrote:
> In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> writes:
>
> >my grandfather didnt go past the
> >third grade, but he BUILT the house my mother grew up in Houston WITH
> HIS
> >BARE HANDS.
>
> Would any gangsta rapper rap about some shit like this? Hell no! And men
> like your grandfather are a reality in the ghetto, too. I could watch the
> news to see some brothers got shot. If gangster rappers were artists, they
> would be able to articulate on a WIDE range of topics, instead of just the
> same shit that's on the evening news every night.
>
> Out.
>
> Alan
>
> Gangsta Rap RIP "Artists progress while others remain the same"
There are plenty of gangsta rappers that rap about things other than
violence. Too many people trivialize gangsta rap and don't really listen
to it.
Listen to: The Geto Boys--Ressurection
UGK--Ridin' Dirty
Eightball & MJG--On Top of the World
Trinity Garden Cartel--Da Saga Continues..
FACEMOB--Tha Other Side of the Law
BAM--A Rough Z'aggin Bible (Pray at Will)
Just to name a few. They ALWAYS come correct. They dont even really
glamorize gangsterism, they just speak on life experiences, and often the
moral implications of these actions. Especially life in the SOUTH
Stay UP!!!
--
OVERTIME, Puttin N WorK fo' Dat Dirty SOUTH
CEO/Publisher
RAI$E UP!! Magazine & Productions
PO BOX 2369
Prairie View, TX 77446-2369(Home of Prairie View A&M University,SWAC)
Michael Carpenter
In article <54ea0i$p...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
kari orr <or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>Independence Day????
>
>his wife had to be a stripper didn't she?
>not a secretary, not a fast food worker, not a teacher, not a lawyer
>but a stripper.
Now I'm confused. I thought low-paying, suck-ass jobs like burger-flippers
and phone-answerers were on the hit list of the up-and-coming African-American
urbanites.
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
In article <54e3m8$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com
(APage20301) wrote:
> In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> writes:
>
> >my grandfather didnt go past the
> >third grade, but he BUILT the house my mother grew up in Houston WITH
> HIS
> >BARE HANDS.
>
> Would any gangsta rapper rap about some shit like this? Hell no! And men
> like your grandfather are a reality in the ghetto, too. I could watch the
> news to see some brothers got shot. If gangster rappers were artists, they
> would be able to articulate on a WIDE range of topics, instead of just the
> same shit that's on the evening news every night.
>
> Out.
>
> Alan
>
> Gangsta Rap RIP "Artists progress while others remain the same"
There are plenty of gangsta rappers that rap about things other than
violence. Too many people trivialize gangsta rap and don't really listen
to it.
Listen to: The Geto Boys--Ressurection
UGK--Ridin' Dirty
Eightball & MJG--On Top of the World
Trinity Garden Cartel--Da Saga Continues..
FACEMOB--Tha Other Side of the Law
BAM--A Rough Z'aggin Bible (Pray at Will)
Just to name a few. They ALWAYS come correct. They dont even really
glamorize gangsterism, they just speak on life experiences, and often the
moral implications of these actions.
Stay UP!!!
--
OVERTIME, Puttin N WorK fo' Dat Dirty SOUTH
CEO/Publisher
RAI$E UP!! Magazine & Productions
PO BOX 2369
Prairie View, TX 77446-2369(Home of Prairie View A&M University,SWAC)
APage20301
In article <54dol5$6...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
(kari orr) writes:
>>A gangsta rapper
>>will NEVER rap about backing down when faced with conflict.
>
>how much have you heard?
Kari, give me one example of a gangsta arpper who discussed the following
scenario...
1) Someone stepped to them.
2) They backed down, because violence is immoral
or
3)They talked to the guy and, upon close inspection, they both decided
they could discuss the matter and solve it peacefully.
I will give you my entire record collection if you can find a gangsta rap
verse which fits the above situation.
Point #2
My essential point was "Gangsta rap is not social commentary." You gave
many reasons why _some_ political rap might *not* have been researched.
I'll agree on that, but I assert that most, if not all, opinions in
political rap can be backed by empirical evidence (statistics, news
clippings, etc.). The same argument could be made for gangsta rap, you
say? Not quite, because gangsta rappers today often discuss murder in the
first person ("I had to blast him"). Any research into most MCs'
backgrounds will reveal that many of them either 1) have never committed a
murder or 2) did not commit the number of murders that occur on all of
their records. For example, let's take Spice 1 (who has different murder
scenarios dozens of individual songs, which - if they could be proven to
be murders they actually commited - would imply that Spice 1 has each
killed at least 20 men)
My basic point? 1) What someone like Chuck D says can be proven,
dsiproven, or otherwise debated. 2) What Spice 1 and most gangsta rappers
say is not based on reality. It is highly unlikely that Spice 1 is
personally responsible for all the murders he brags about on his albums.
3) If what one says cannot be proven/disproven, it does not fall under the
category of "social commentary", IMO, because social commentary should
have the intent to express fact and reflect reality. What Spice 1 does is
braggadocious rap about how hard he is personally, not some commentary on
the psychology of murderers in the black community. Spice 1 has no lofty
goals of being a "commentator". Chuck D, by contrast, feels that rap is
black people's CNN. He feels that rap has serious potential as a
communicative tool through which black people can be educated about the
struggle of our brothers and sisters nationwide. (You argued that east
Coast rappers don't appeal to Southerners. All of the PE albums I heard
growing up refutes this theory somewhat, I believe)
Point #3
When gangsta rappers like Bushwick Bill claim they want to show what goes
on in their communities, how does he justify fantasy songs like
"Chuckwick", where he puts himself in the shoes on a cartoonlike
psychopath who fires missles into schoolbuses? Is this "social
commentary"? No. It is Bushwick Bill making what he feels will entertain
his fans. Many political rappers, by contrast, express repeatedly in
interviews their desires to lead their people towards positivity, while
expressing the problems in the black community and offering solutions.
Chuck D, in short, would *never* do a song like "Chuckwick", because it
would dilute his image as a serious commentator on issues facing the black
community.
Point #4
The above definition of social commentary as a description of ailments
balanced witha proposal for solutions is why IMO "Death Cerificate" was
social commentary, because Ice Cube put forth the several of the problems
in the black community in LA and occasionally offered solutions (as in his
suggestion that black drug dealers pool their money to build a supermarket
in South central LA). Gangsta rap, with the exception of a few positive
songs from tupac Shakur, has rarely achieved this balance of realism and
idealism in contemporary times, hence the death of gangsta rap as a potent
source of social commentary.
Kari, I await your rebuttal.
Peace,
Alan
APage20301
In article <flowers1-211...@ppp-2.ts-1.hou.idt.net>,
>ALWAYS a flaw in the Black person's being or character. Good
>examples are: Lethal Weapon (he was old and needed his younger partner)
Interestingly, Danny Glover was much more functional than Mel Gibson, a
suicidal white man who sought refuge with Danny Glover's stable family (I
had this "Isis Papers" theory about that, but I will tell that to people
who correspond with me via e-mail). Anyway, Mel gibson is the one who is
*always* getting shot and otherwise fucked up in the Lethal Weapon movies.
Danny Glover, BTW, didn't *need* a younger partner, he was just assigned
one. If I remember right, the reason was so Danny could keep Mel under
control, as sort of a mentor figure, but I could be wrong.
Out,
Alan
APage20301
In article <flowers1-211...@ppp-2.ts-1.hou.idt.net>,
flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
writes:
>And in Independence Day, his wife was a stripper, which has a negative
>moral connotation to most people. How come she could not be a secretary,
>work in fastfood, a beautician, or even a housewife, hell anything
>else??
Kari mentioned this as well. I asked what it had to do with him. I'll
admit there is a peripheral connection. Notice that Will Smith's girl in
"Bad Boys" is a prostitute. I actually think this has to do with
Hollywood's misrepresentation of women in general, and black women in
particular, more than an attempt to malign Will Smith's otherwise "perfect
hero" characters.
Out,
Alan
APage20301
In article <54ea0i$p...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
(kari orr) writes:
>his wife had to be a stripper didn't she?
What does this have to do with HIM? Besides, i don't even think that was
his wife. i believe it was his girlfriend.
APage20301
In article <flowers1-211...@ppp-2.ts-1.hou.idt.net>,
flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
writes:
>There are plenty of gangsta rappers that rap about things other than
>violence. Too many people trivialize gangsta rap and don't really listen
>to it.
Yes, I know this. I listen to or have listened to...
Geto Boys, E-40 (solo) and w/the Click, Spice 1 (3 of 4 LPs), Too Short
(he's a playa, not a G, but you know. I had six Jive albums I have owned
at one time), early 2 Live Crew (not really "gangsta"), Biggie, Mobb Deep,
KRS-ONE's "Criminal Minded", Kool G. Rap, Scarface, Tupac (all 4 LPs),
Thug Life, Mac Mall, Dee Mack, Lench Mob (political/"gangsta"), Ice Cube,
K-Dee (more on the playa side) Lil' Slim, Juvenile, Bust Down, UGKz...
And the list goes on. I listen to quite a wide range of music, Overtime.
Yes, gangstas have non-violent songs. My problem is, when someone says on
a song that they commit a murder, then they don't explore the consequences
of what happens later (be they conflicts of conscience or problems with
the law), is this reality? Is it "social commentary" or glorification of
violence? Many gangsta rappers make records that are filled with as much
fantasy violence as a Seagall film. Is this a good thing? I feel that any
display of violence without the corresponding depiction of its results is
immoral. Do we do as other immoral people do? Does what Swarzenneger do in
a film as one who does not take responsility for his art excuse rappers
who assume a similar role of irresponsibility? I don't think so. I believe
it is crucial that rappers think before they speak. Sure, they're
entertainers. Still, they have to realize how many people hear their words
and that CDs are almost eternal. Generations down the line will be able to
hear the words we speak today on records. What do we want them to hear?
That black women are bitches? That we "never hesitate(d) to put a nigga on
his back"? As a lyricist, I take personal responsibility for all of my
words. I urge every other lyricist to do the same.
I interviewed Vooodu! of western hemisfear about one of his lines where he
says "I killed my first man at 13." He says this line was fictional and
that he actually witnessed the incident. Why would he change an incident
he witnessed from third person ("I saw him kill a man when I was 13") to
first person ("*I* killed my first man at 13"). This type of fraud is
reprehensible. That is why I feel gangsta rap is dead as a form of "social
commentary". Too Short, in an interview, admitted to me that he had never
been a pimp. Never. He's been rapping about pimping for fifteen years. If
a reporter came on the air and said that all news coverage is actually
shot on a Hollywood soundstage not "live" as was previously claimed,
wouldn't this seriously damage the credibility of the news media? I feel
that rappers who LIE about what they do to sell records seriously impair
the credibility of gangsta rap.
Peace (and I desperately want it),
Alan
Kevin Lee
In message <flowers1-211...@ppp-2.ts-1.hou.idt.net>,wrote:
> Just to name a few. They ALWAYS come correct. They dont even really
> glamorize gangsterism, they just speak on life experiences, and often the
> moral implications of these actions.
I know a mainstream dictionary can't be much of an authority about
urban slang, but some time ago Merriam-Webster did decide that the
term "gangsta" (with the a) was widespread enough to be included in
one of their more inclusive dictionaries.
From memory, I believe they defined it as a style of violent
braggadocio rap, portraying urban life in a gang. Now, if you think
about it, it does seem to fit. But that definition isn't really
recognized real life, it seems...
What I'm trying to say is that your definition of gangsta rap does not
seem to fit. What about groups like Wu-Tang? Howabout Xzibit? Goodie
Mob? Nas? They aren't classified as gangsta rap. But they talk about
urban life, urban strife, etc., as do what your groups do. But if you
compare them to something like NWA, Cypress Hill, Wack 10, there is a
clear distinction.
So maybe the Geto Boys are no longer a gangsta rap act. Maybe the last
refuges of gangsta rap have evolved to playa rap, or with a few
holdouts like Mr. Doctor.
> Especially life in the SOUTH
South coast, west coast, east coast... does it matter? Fundamentally,
it's all the same.
peace...
kpl
kari orr
>>his wife had to be a stripper didn't she?
>
>What does this have to do with HIM? Besides, i don't even think that was
>his wife. i believe it was his girlfriend.
she eventually became his wife, outside of that, her being an
exotic dancer adding nothing but T&A to the movie.
kari orr
>What I'm trying to say is that your definition of gangsta rap does not
>seem to fit. What about groups like Wu-Tang? Howabout Xzibit? Goodie
>Mob? Nas? They aren't classified as gangsta rap. But they talk about
>urban life, urban strife, etc., as do what your groups do. But if you
>compare them to something like NWA, Cypress Hill, Wack 10, there is a
>clear distinction.
Wu tang? definitely some g-rappers.
Goodie mob, the antithesis of gangsta rappers?
Xzibit, former gangster, turned rapper(peep his 4080 interview)
Nas - Nas Escobar(as in Medellin drug king pin, Pablo Escobar)
yes he is a gangsta rapper.
Does that make nas and wu tang wack? No.
some of my favorite gangsters are rappers....
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
In article <54kqi1$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com
(APage20301) wrote:
> In article <flowers1-211...@ppp-2.ts-1.hou.idt.net>,
> flow...@mail.idt.net (OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!)
> writes:
>
> >ALWAYS a flaw in the Black person's being or character. Good
> >examples are: Lethal Weapon (he was old and needed his younger partner)
>
> Interestingly, Danny Glover was much more functional than Mel Gibson, a
> suicidal white man who sought refuge with Danny Glover's stable family (I
> had this "Isis Papers" theory about that, but I will tell that to people
> who correspond with me via e-mail). Anyway, Mel gibson is the one who is
> *always* getting shot and otherwise fucked up in the Lethal Weapon movies.
> Danny Glover, BTW, didn't *need* a younger partner, he was just assigned
> one. If I remember right, the reason was so Danny could keep Mel under
> control, as sort of a mentor figure, but I could be wrong.
>
> Out,
>
> Alan
The negative attachment in this scenario is that Danny Glover's character
was not physically whole, age is symbolic of frailty and physical
weakness. You notice, Glover's character had to be saved by Gibson's,
and gibson's character did all of the major physical confrontation, he was
stronger than Glover. This put's Glover's character into the
'Pappy/Mammy' stereotype.
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
KSG
> In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> > Did you know there
> >has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF A
> >NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
> >without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
> >character??
>
Predator II (Danny Glover)
Crimson Tide (Denzel Washington)
And I'm quite sure there are alot more.
KSG
Known Universe
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu (kari orr) wrote:
Well, I wouldn't really call Nas a "Ganksta Wappa" per se, I was
thinking more along the lines of "unoriginal" or "stale" or possibly
even "played out". Gee, the Affirmative Action remix is done over the
beat of The Symphony. What a surprise. And as for the Wu, would
anybody really call The GZA a "Ganksta Wappa" in the same vein as Dre
or Snoop? I don't think so. But my point is not to clown Nasir
Smalls or say The Wu aren't "G-Wappaz"; rather it's to point out that
the term "Ganksta Wappa" is so nebulous I think that the hip-hop
community should just get off it. Besides, how much "Ganksta Wap"
these days actually talks about life in a gang? I don't see an album
examining the actual day-to-day life of a banger in a realistic sense
(e.g. reasons for joining a gang, do they realize the consequences,
how do they really feel when they kill a man); instead it's just this
drive big cars/get the ladies/smoke the blunt/drink the forty/pack the
gat mentality that has little or nothing to do with actual gang life
aside from a partying perspective. It's like Alan Page said, it
doesn't examine the consequences of the lifestyle itself. I'm not
saying every album should be a manifesto, but just have a little
perspective for Pete's sake...
I dunno, I just find that intelligent discourse on any topic is out
of style these days.
peace
Known Universe
----------
A girl I know told me that I think too much. I said,
"I might as well do it, nobody else does."
----------
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
Danny Glover in Predator 2 faught an ALIEN (something that is unreal)
and then at the very end, no one saw him access victory, so it might as
well not have happened.
Denzel Washington directly disobeyed orders, so technically he was wrong
and insubordinate. This is also another scenario that no one outside of
the ship would have known about, so it also cant be counted.
When I say hero, I mean he walks away at the end, totally intact
(physical, mental, spiritual) and is VICTORIOUS and everyone is in favor
of his actions.
There has never been a movie with a Black star like this. We researched
for 6 months and couldn't find one. The point being, Black people need to
realize this and MAKE A CHANGE.
Stay UP!!!
OverTime, Puttin' N WorK 4 the Dirty South!!!
In article <3272d8b...@newshost.uwo.ca>, jlin...@mustang.uwo.ca
(Known Universe) wrote:
Besides, how much "Ganksta Wap"
> these days actually talks about life in a gang? I don't see an album
> examining the actual day-to-day life of a banger in a realistic sense
> (e.g. reasons for joining a gang, do they realize the consequences,
> how do they really feel when they kill a man); instead it's just this
> drive big cars/get the ladies/smoke the blunt/drink the forty/pack the
> gat mentality that has little or nothing to do with actual gang life
> aside from a partying perspective. It's like Alan Page said, it
> doesn't examine the consequences of the lifestyle itself. I'm not
> saying every album should be a manifesto, but just have a little
> perspective for Pete's sake...
>
> peace
> Known Universe
First of all, you have a patronizing attitude about the topic. It's
evident because you said, "Ganksta Wap"
If i came on here talkin bout baggy-jean, stripped-shirt, & beanie hat
wearing, backpack toters, aka 'hip-hoppers' I would get flamed.
It is also evident that you don't listen to the music. You might like a
gangsta rap single here and there, or buy one or two gangsta rap albums
that are popular, but thats it.
It is evident, because if you listen to the music, you would not have
made the above statement.
Most LA rappers are bangin' on wax now. There are hundreds of gang
references, streets, sets, and the logic behind the gang life in LA.
I'm not from LA, but ive been there a number of times, and I made a
point to verify some of this info, with one of my potnas in LA who is a
5-Tre Gangsta Crip.
Too many gangsta rappers realize the consequences,thats why they're
rapping about it, to TRY AND GET THESE BG's to STOP.
There are literally hundreds of Gangsta rap songs that have significant meaning.
I'll name a few so you can go and listen to them, then maybe you'll
change your mind:
Jayo Felony - Locc's on His Own
UGK- High Life
Geto Boys- First Light of Day
Trinity Garden Cartel - Industry No Kin to Me
Eighball & MJG - Listen to me Now, What Can I do?, Hand of the Devil
TRU- Living that Life
DJ DMD- Time Served, Ghetto Gold
Above the law- Black Superman, Apocalypse Now, The evil that Men Do
This is just the tip of the eightball.....there are countless others.
Too many people trivialize gangsta rap, but a lot of so-called hip-hop
rappers dont really rap about anything. They're talking loud not saying
nothing. And my granmomma told me if you talk too much you either lying
or repeating yourself.
Thats why Cube and nem are so agg, they put up with this shit all day.
That one West Side Connection song that ends, "Fool why you talking loud??
What you talkin bout???!!!" is some serious.
At least most gangsta rappers are saying .....SOMETHING
-Kev-
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996 flow...@mail.idt.net wrote:
> In article <3271B3...@cs.ucsd.edu>, kga...@cs.ucsd.edu wrote:
>
> > > In article <flowers1-151...@ppp-10.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
> > > > Did you know there
> > > >has never been a movie ever made (from the first motion picture BIRTH OF A
> > > >NATION about the Klan) that depicts a Black person as a hero in the end
> > > >without some negative connotation or stigma attached to his/her
> > > >character??
> >
> > Predator II (Danny Glover)
> > Crimson Tide (Denzel Washington)
> >
> > And I'm quite sure there are alot more.
>
> Danny Glover in Predator 2 faught an ALIEN (something that is unreal)
> and then at the very end, no one saw him access victory, so it might as
> well not have happened.
>
> Denzel Washington directly disobeyed orders, so technically he was wrong
> and insubordinate. This is also another scenario that no one outside of
> the ship would have known about, so it also cant be counted.
>
> When I say hero, I mean he walks away at the end, totally intact
> (physical, mental, spiritual) and is VICTORIOUS and everyone is in favor
> of his actions.
>
> There has never been a movie with a Black star like this. We researched
> for 6 months and couldn't find one. The point being, Black people need to
> realize this and MAKE A CHANGE.
Why? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm sincerely curious why such
a paragon of a hero is needed.
No question in my mind that Black people have been misrepresented on film
historically, but with the rigid criteria used to define a "hero"
throughout this thread, I can't think of too many white characters that
fit it perfectly. Examples?
Anyway, I'd find a movie with such a hero boring and insulting to my
intelligence. Why? 1) Characters with flaws are more realistic and
interesting; 2) Sometimes people have to do things perceived as "negative"
to achieve a positive goal; 3) No matter what the end result is, there's
always gonna be someone who disapproves -- that's life. Let's just shoot
for more honest portrayals and less racist propaganda.
-Kev-
shouldn't this be taken to some kinda movie newsgroup by now?
Ike A Newton IV
Known Universe (jlin...@mustang.uwo.ca) wrote:
: or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu (kari orr) wrote:
:
: >In article <32747610...@news.oz.net>, k...@oz.net (Kevin Lee) says:
: >
: >>What I'm trying to say is that your definition of gangsta rap does not
: >>seem to fit. What about groups like Wu-Tang? Howabout Xzibit? Goodie
: >>Mob? Nas? They aren't classified as gangsta rap. But they talk about
: >>urban life, urban strife, etc., as do what your groups do. But if you
: >>compare them to something like NWA, Cypress Hill, Wack 10, there is a
: >>clear distinction.
: >
: >Wu tang? definitely some g-rappers.
: >Goodie mob, the antithesis of gangsta rappers?
: >Xzibit, former gangster, turned rapper(peep his 4080 interview)
: >Nas - Nas Escobar(as in Medellin drug king pin, Pablo Escobar)
: > yes he is a gangsta rapper.
: >
: >Does that make nas and wu tang wack? No.
: >some of my favorite gangsters are rappers....
:
: Well, I wouldn't really call Nas a "Ganksta Wappa" per se, I was
: thinking more along the lines of "unoriginal" or "stale" or possibly
: even "played out". Gee, the Affirmative Action remix is done over the
: beat of The Symphony. What a surprise. And as for the Wu, would
: anybody really call The GZA a "Ganksta Wappa" in the same vein as Dre
: or Snoop? I don't think so. But my point is not to clown Nasir
: Smalls or say The Wu aren't "G-Wappaz"; rather it's to point out that
: the term "Ganksta Wappa" is so nebulous I think that the hip-hop
: these days actually talks about life in a gang? I don't see an album
: examining the actual day-to-day life of a banger in a realistic sense
: (e.g. reasons for joining a gang, do they realize the consequences,
: how do they really feel when they kill a man); instead it's just this
: drive big cars/get the ladies/smoke the blunt/drink the forty/pack the
: gat mentality that has little or nothing to do with actual gang life
: aside from a partying perspective. It's like Alan Page said, it
: doesn't examine the consequences of the lifestyle itself. I'm not
: saying every album should be a manifesto, but just have a little
: perspective for Pete's sake...
: I dunno, I just find that intelligent discourse on any topic is out
: of style these days.
:
:
: peace
:
:
: Known Universe
:
: ----------
: A girl I know told me that I think too much. I said,
: "I might as well do it, nobody else does."
: ----------
You just saying that cause they from the East. Content is the same, just
not as detailed.
Kurly25771
Listen to all the Bloods And Crips albums you'll learn what gangsta rap is
all about. What you are considering Gangsta Rap is like Masta Ace cars,
women, blunts, gats when you really just don't know. Check out some Ant
Banks or some Spice 1 or The Westside Connection album that's Gangsta Rap.
PEACE
apage...@aol.com
In article <flowers1-301...@ppp-32.ts-2.hou.idt.net>,
>Danny Glover in Predator 2 faught an ALIEN (something that is unreal)
>and then at the very end, no one saw him access victory, so it might as
>well not have happened.
Brother, come on!!! No one saw Luke Skywalker beat the Emperor at the end
of Return of the Jedi (except darth Vader, who later died). Does this mean
Luke Skywalker wasn't portrayed as a hero in "Return of the Jedi"? You're
stretching.
Hell, in "Superman 2", only Lois Lane and Lex Luther see Superman beat the
evil Kryptonians. I mean, is there a certain audience size that has to
exist for someone action's to be considered heroic?
12 Predators saw Danny Glover beat a Predator in one-on-one combat,
something even Arnold Schwarzenneger's big ass couldn't do without relying
on booby traps. So, 12 witnesses saw Danny Glover be a hero. What, is the
requirement that witnesses to heroic events must be human for humans to be
acknowledged as heroes? In that case, Captain Kirk isn't a hero whenver
just Spock sees him save the universe, Bones has to be around. Is that
your logic? Come on now.
Apollo beat the shit out of Rocky in "Rocky" in front of a crowd of
thousands and a television audience of millions. Is that enough witnesses
for you?
Will Smith beat the aliens and saved the planet. Jeff Goldblum saw the
whole thing.
Will Smith shot the white bad guy in "Bad Boys". Martin Lawrence, the cops
on the scene, and the white lady saw it all.
Shaft whipped everybody's ass and everyone saw it.
And then there's "Action Jackson"....
"Meteor Man"...
Get my point yet?
alan
CMC
ice...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
I was watching Nash Bridges yesterday, because I had nothing else to do.
Anyway, the central character, besides Nash and Cheech Marin's character
was this black kid. He was caught up in some drug thing, and the evil
thugs were after him. He was sort of the hero, but he was still "the evil
black man/kid/woman/girl" so often seen on TV. Did anybody else see it?
--
Roman Sokolowski
email: ice...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Jesse B Ducker
: What does this got ta do with Gangsta Rap?
Overtime and I were having a discussion about how black people are
portrayed. We should've started a new thread, but we didn't bother.
alan
eldia...@aol.com
Shup. I'm just starting a new Hip Hop music auction. It will include rap /
hip hop tapes,
cd's, and - mostly - vinyl. Everthing will start at unbelievably low
prices - for instance -
you could pick up;
South Circle - Anotha Day, Anotha Balla LP for $1.00!
MC Ren - Villian In Black LP for $1.00!
Crucial Conflict - Tha Final Tic for $3.50!
The Set It Off Sndtrk for $3.50!
Jamal - Last Chance, No Breaks LP for $3.50!
Whodini - Keep Runnin' Back 12" for $1.00!
Eightball & MJG - Break Em' Off (Evil D rmx's 12")
Nate Dogg f/ Snoop Doggy Dogg - Never Leave Me Alone 12"
Mystical - Here I Go (rmx's) 12"
A+ - All I See (Beatminers rmx's)
Or bring home;
Jay-Z - Dead Presidents Full Length Tape for $3.00
Tha Dogg Pound - Dogg Food Full Length Tape for $2.50
KRS-One - Self Tittled Full Length Tape for $2.50
Channel Life - Station Identification Full Length Tape for
$2.00
Rass Kass - Sampler On Ice (4 track + 2 freestytle "sampler")
And thats not it - there are tons more deals. If you'd like to be on the
list for this auction,
just send an Email to me.
Greg Pugliese
Was it really necessary to post this 19 times?
-GJP
On 10 Nov 1996 eldia...@aol.com wrote:
> Hey. This is Amir (A-Bomb) Herron, comin' atcha with an opportunity to
> purchase this
> brand new mixtape... John Doe's - Short Fuse: The Bomb vol. 1 ... John
> Doe is straight
> outta Philly, and this is his first ever mixtape made availible to the
> public, but he mixes
> butter music with the smoothness and skill comparable to an experienced
> mixtape dj
> such as Doo Wop, Tony Touch, Craig G, S&S, or DJ Clue. This fly first
> attempt features
> tracks and freestyles by some of his own phat, underground artist and some
> other cool,
> brand new butterz by the likes of ATCQ, Mobb Deep, A+, Outkast, Little
> Kim, Jay-Z ect.
>
>
> Below is a list of some of the tracks you'll find on this tape...
>
> INI - Props
> A Tribe Called Quest - The Hop
> Outkast - Two Dope Boyz (In A Cadillac)
> Mobb Deep - G.O.D.father Pt. III
> Little Kim - No Time For Fake Rhymes (or something)
> The Braxtons f/ Jay Z - So Many Wayz (rmx)
> A Tribe Called Quest - Stressed Out (rmx)
> D'Evils - Jay-Z
> I Gave You Power - Nas
> A+ f/ Mobb Deep - Out For The Gusto (rmx) <I think this is the
> tittle>
> Bahamadia - I Confess (The Roots rmx)
> Mobb Deep - Hell On Earth
>
>
> And even MORE new joints by;
>
> Mobb Deep
> The Roots
> Sadat X
> Little Kim
> Bahamadia
> Heltah Skeltah
> OGC
> A Tribe Called Quest
> Faith
>
> John Doe - Short Fuse: The Bomb vol. 1
> Usually - $10.00 + s/h
> Speacial Reduced Internet Price - $7.95 + s/h!!!
>
>
> If you are interested in placing an order, or recieving a Full Track List
> for this tape,
> please reply. Any questions about songs, I will answer to the best of my
> ability, also.
>
>
>
> You can also purchase the below tapes, for only FIVE DOLLARS, w/ the
> purchase of the
> John Dogh tape.
>
>
> DJ IROC / FAT JOE MIXTAPE
>
> Side A -
>
> MINTRO: FAT JOE
> IROC INTRO
> FREESTYLE BIG PUNISHER
> FREESTYLE NAS
> COMMON SENSE - I SEE THE BITCH IN YOO
> NAS - IF I RULED THE WORLD <IROC RMX>
> BRANDY f/ L.L. COOL J - SITTIN' UP IN MY ROOM <IROC RMX>
> STEPHANIE MILLS - PUTTIN A RUSH ON ME <IROC RMX>
> ZU LU WAR CHANT
> FREESTYLE KRS-ONE
> HEATHER B f/ M.O.P. - MY KINDA NIGGA
> BUSTA RHYMES f/ Q-TIP - ILL VIBE
> DE LA SOUL f/ COMMON SENSE - THE BIZNESS
> FAT JOE f/ KRS-ONE - BRONX TALE
>
> Side B -
>
> INTRO: FREESTYLE FAT JOE
> FAT JOE f/ REAKWON & BIG PUNISHER - FIREWATER
> FREESTYLE THE LOX
> 112 - ONLY YOU
> FREESTYLE FOXY BROWN & PRETTY BOY
> INSPEKTAH DECK & U-GOD - SEMI-AUTOMATIC
> FREESTYLE - JaY-Z
> HORACE BROWN - ONE FOR THE MONEY <IROC RMX>
> SWV (RMX) f/ JaY-Z
> FREESTYLE BIG L & HERB McGRUFF
> HERB McGRUFF - HARLEM KIDS GET BIZ
> GHOSTFACE KILLER f/ RZA - WHO'S THE CHAMPION
> MONIFAH - YOU
>
>
> DJ Evil D - Pt 2
>
> Altered Beats
>
> Best Of The Wake Up Show vol.2
>
>
> DOO WOP 95 LIVE II approx. 80 min. rec. on a 90 min.
> Side A freestyles by:
> 1. doo wop
> 2. krs-one
> 3. treach
> 4. keith murray and redman
> 5. mobb deep and big noyd
> 6. az
> 7. lost boyz
> 8. uneek
> 9. smif n' wesson
> 10. mad lion and krs-one
> 11. channel live
> 12. king just
> 13. buckshot
>
> 14. everything remains raw-busta rhymes
> 15. shadow boxing-gza
> 16. bust a nut-big and luke
> 17. hip hop-ll cool j
> 18. fuck what you heard-smooth da hustler
> 19. whoo ha!-busta
> 20. investigative reports-gza
>
> SIDE B
> 1. broken language-smooth da hustler
> 2. rappaz rn dainja-krs-one
> 3. incarcerated scarfaces-raekwon
> 4. living proof-group home
> 5. danger-blahzay blahzay
> 6. loud hangover-sadat x and akinyele
> 7. shit hit the fan-nine
> 8. 4th chamber-gza
> 9. brainstorm-lord finesse, oc, krs-one
> 10. see what I see-shyheim
> 11. oh my lord-jr. mafia
> 12. envy-fat joe
> 13. how many mics-fugees
> 14. i shot ya-ll cool j (rmx)
> 15. uncut raw-az
>
> THIS TAPE IS DUBBED STRAIGHT FROM THE ORIGINAL I ORDERED FROM
> TAPE KINGZ
>
>
> Thanks,
> Amir
>
>
>
eldia...@aol.com
OverTime
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.961110...@rac7.wam.umd.edu>,
Greg Pugliese <gp...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> Was it really necessary to post this 19 times?
>
> -GJP
>
>
> On 10 Nov 1996 eldia...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hey. This is Amir (A-Bomb) Herron, comin' atcha with an opportunity to
> > purchase this
> > brand new mixtape..
> > THIS TAPE IS DUBBED STRAIGHT FROM THE ORIGINAL I ORDERED FROM
> > TAPE KINGZ
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Amir
You know you can be sued now right???
Just to let you know.........
"I neva tell ya 2 get down its all about comin' UP!!!!" --CUBE
Stay UP!!!
--
OVERTIME, Comin Down'... Deep....& DIRTY from dat South
Ike A Newton IV
OverTime (flow...@mail.idt.net) wrote:
: In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.961110...@rac7.wam.umd.edu>,
Yep. Damn, he incriminated himself. I guess he doesn't know what ALL
Rights Reserved means.
--
_________
./'_________`\
.========================,' / `,`,
|+-----------------------''~ +| Group: Gin.U.Wine Clique
|| || Year Of Birth: 1986
%| STR8-GiN RECORDS (c) || Reviews: Rap Sheet Magazine
|| HTTP://www.armory.com/~ginuwine || (October 1996)
|| HTTP://www.angelfire.com/biz/str8gin ||
|| e-mail: ginu...@deeptht.armory.com ||
|| str...@korrnet.org || Underground Tracks:
|| || a) Southern Style Funk (1995)
|| || b) Somethin' 2 Ride 2 (1995)
|| !| c) Attitude Problem (1991)
^%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^ d) Concrete Playground (1991)
! 1996 (c) All Rights Reserved [BMI] ! e) Treal in da Hills (1994)
,--#====================================# f) I'm Out (1994)
[ Production by: Baby Boy 4 Hat-2-Da-Back Productions (c) 1996 **********]
[ ############## King Kut 4 King Kut Music ##############################]
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------'
Givin' It Up 4 K-Town: 5ft. Giant, E.B.G.'s & the ones that's about to
hit up all at once.