*WARNING* Eelbash scanning and divulging content
Nobody
"Anonymous" <nob...@neuropa.net> wrote in message
news:2000070112...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> Someone wrote:
> > Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems eelbash is
> > monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
> > anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
> > five different newsgroups.
>
> Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers for -
>
> http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
>
> Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a bad reputation?
>
Apparently he comes with a web site, too.
http://www.anet-chi.com/~freedom/
>
>
>
Anonymous
"Anonymous" <nob...@neuropa.net> wrote in message
news:2000070112...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> Someone wrote:
> > Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems eelbash is
> > monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
> > anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
> > five different newsgroups.
>
> Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers for -
>
> http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
>
> Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a bad reputation?
>
>
>
the hell do you keep your pristine reputation you fucking stinking pig shit
slime?
--------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
-----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
Anonymous
"Anonymous" <nob...@remailer.privacy.at> wrote in message
news:cc038ef75d122d9a...@remailer.privacy.at...
> > Someone wrote:
> > > Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems eelbash is
> > > monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
> > > anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
> > > five different newsgroups.
>
> > Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers for -
> >
> > http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
> >
> > Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a bad reputation?
>
> able to use a From line or crosspost to more than 3 newsgroups.
>
>
>
>
>
You are a fucking pussy.
Anonymous
> On Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:51:02 -0400 "Nobody" <n...@one.com> wrote:
>
> >"Anonymous" <nob...@neuropa.net> wrote in message
> >news:2000070112...@berlin.neuropa.net...
> >> > Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems eelbash is
> >> > monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
> >> > anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
> >> > five different newsgroups.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
> >>
> >> Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a bad reputation?
> >>
> for $650 a month child support :)
>
> But seriously, whatever this guy is posting, does it give a remailer
> operator the right to monitor content?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
You trust the internet you do have a problem, even this part of it.
Anonymous
monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
five different newsgroups.
eelbas...@excite.com wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> This is a repost of the earlier message - you can see the contents of the
> blocked messages at this URL:
> http://members.xoom.com/eelbashw/psycho.html
>
> *************************
>
> At the request of several people, I put blocks into the eelbash remailer to
> keep certain combinations of newsgroups and other headers from going
> through.
>
> I thought it might be useful to publish, from time to time, information
> about the posts that were blocked.
>
> The list below shows 5 messages that were blocked yesterday. Four of them
> supposedly come from 'fre...@freedom.org', and the fifth supposedly comes
> from 'fred.b...@d12.netpluscom.com'.
>
> Eelbash blocks very few posts; in addition, these 5 posts arrived within 30
> minutes of one another. You don't have to be a statistician to conclude
> it's very likely that all 5 were sent by the same person.
>
> I have no way of knowing who actually sent *any* of the posts.
>
> To see the first 20 or so lines of each post, go to
> http://members.xoom.com/eelbashw/psycho.html
>
> Eelbash does not log or keep any messages that go through it, except,
> temporarily, the few messages that are blocked. These I read to make sure
> they were not blocked by mistake, and then delete them. So far, no message
> has been blocked by mistake: the software is working as it is supposed to.
>
> - - eelbash admin
>
> TIME / FROM SUBJECT
> 6/30/00 8:21:31 AM fre...@freedom.org Re: Embarrassing months for
> crossposters
> 6/30/00 8:28:05 AM fre...@freedom.org "PangK, statutory rapist"
> 6/30/00 8:31:27 AM fre...@freedom.org "Hey PangK, you ole liar...."
> 6/30/00 8:36:52 AM fred.b...@d12.netpluscom.com Thoughts about
> moderation
> 6/30/00 8:49:37 AM fre...@freedom.org Re: squabbling men
>
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Anonymous
> Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers for -
>
> http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
>
> Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a bad reputation?
Arguing in a forum on dad's rights gives anonymous remailers a bad
reputation? Flaming occurs more often anonymously? I don't understand
your point.
Anonymous
wrote:
This specific situation involves a flame war between two individuals
mainly. PangK and Freedom. PangK had apparently published a bunch of
information on line about where Freedom lives and works, including
social security number, and also complained to Freedom's ISP to try to
have his account nuked. Freedom then went underground and began
posting only from remailers. No problem there, but of late it seems
he's gotten a little to carried away with the "no accountability"
factor which comes with remailers.
For what it's worth, "PangK", who posts from AOL, is just as bad or
worse. He's also the guy who started the debate about AOL users being
able to use remailers.
lcs Mixmaster Remailer
outed. There is no worse sin for a remailer operator. And instead of
discussing whether or not Eelbash did the right thing, whether he should put
"mon" in his capabilities, whether freedom of speech can survive this type
of behavior.... you folks are discussing the merits of the outed user's Web
site!
>If you use eelbash as the last remailer in your chain, your message >is
decrypted by the time it gets there, anyway. But if you're
>doing things right, he can't tell where it came from.
He's not supposed to CARE where it came from or what it revealed! And he
certainly isn't supposed to share his findings with all of Usenet!
Was he playing hookie the day they taught that in remailer operator's
school???
I suspect we are now dealing with a new generation of remailer operators
(and their users). I call them the Frog Group. They are more like Net-Cops
then privacy-oriented netizens. They have drawn a line in the sand declaring
some speech to be acceptable and other speech to be unacceptable and even
punishable(!)
Frog-Admin didn't like newsgroups flooders. He wrote software to out them
more easily. He now eagerly shares his software with other remops naive
enough to think the can have their cake and eat it too.
Eelbash-Admin doesn't like users who impersonate other users.
Perhaps next month Eelbash won't like racially derogative names in the From:
header.
Perhaps the month after that he will begin peeking at message bodies
to ensure there are no racial slurs there. This would be abuse of his
remailer, he would claim. If you don't like it then run your own remailer,
etc...
The Slippery Slop is what it's called. Why do I feel that this concept is
completely new to many of you out there?
Dan
"lcs Mixmaster Remailer" <m...@anon.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:200007022020...@nym.alias.net...
> {sigh} What is happening to this newsgroup? A user of Eelbash has just
been
> outed. There is no worse sin for a remailer operator. And instead of
> discussing whether or not Eelbash did the right thing, whether he should
put
> "mon" in his capabilities, whether freedom of speech can survive this type
> of behavior.... you folks are discussing the merits of the outed user's
Web
> site!
>
troubled reading the initial post. While I can appreciate the need to
balance freedom with responsibility and the likely need for some set of
controls somewhere along the line ... the "outting" was way out of line IMO.
If a remailer wants to prevent someone or something from getting through
their system, it's difficult to argue that they don't have that right. But
the posts which were made public were done so without any pre-notice of
policy and were posts, in a sense, entrusted to that remailer as regards
complete privacy. That fundamental precept upon which the whole re-mailing
system is based was unceremoniously and extremely inappropriately trashed by
creating that web site ... troubling indeed.
Accepting that precedent in essence means that any re-mailer feels they have
the right to publicly disclose the identity of a user along with the content
of any message that user may have sent through their machine.
In my mind, what is most important now are the opinions and policies of the
other re-mailers. Will they object strongly, perhaps to the degree of
re-fusing to chain through eelbash? Will they say nothing and leave the user
to wondering what might one day happen to one of their "private" posts
should it meet with disagreement from the wrong re-mailer at the wrong time?
I don't know. But IMO failure for the re-mailing community as a whole to
deal with this issue repsonsibly throws the whole system off kilter and
can't help but leave one feeling that he has no real guarantee of privacy at
all when it comes to re-mailers anymore. But then, to some extent, maybe
that was really just an illusion all along.
Given no significant response from re-mailers, it may be time for those with
real privacy in mind to seek out other alternatives. I'm just not sure there
are any. This should be most unsettling to anyone taking the time to
appreciate the real gravity of the situation in a broader context IMO.
Upset
|{sigh} What is happening to this newsgroup? A user of Eelbash has just been
|outed. There is no worse sin for a remailer operator. And instead of
|discussing whether or not Eelbash did the right thing, whether he should put
|"mon" in his capabilities, whether freedom of speech can survive this type
|of behavior.... you folks are discussing the merits of the outed user's Web
|site!
AGAIN that obsession with "MON"
AGAIN that bicking against a succesful remop
Listen, katherine:
If not impersonating a woman any more makes you have your PMS twice a
month,
SIGN AGAIN AS "KATHERINE"
We are tired of your cyclic rant against succesful remailers.
You are sick jealous because your were the failed remop of a failed
remailer
MIRANDA: the worst remailer ever, spamming aam on top
You never had the guts to run a non-middleman remailer
Your stupid propositions of "hash cash" aimed at making life more difficult
for *every* user
And your never-ending lectures about how others SHOULD do make us sick
If you *ever* dare running a remailer again, dont forget to put "SF" in cap
string
like "Science Fiction" or "Spammer Friendly"
But dont expect the remailer at the other end to take the heat for posting
the crap you welcome
Your new creation might very well finish its short life in a few blocking
lists
You support attackers who try to kill remailers by spamming them to death.
Fine: that is your agenda, we know about it
There are quite a few users who have a *legitimate* use of remailers,
and they do not like your attempts to kill healthy remailers
Look at Eelbash weekly number of messages processed
Look at figures processed by others
Suicide
Leave us alone
Upset
Upset
This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
This message sender's real identity is unknown, unlogged, and
is not replyable via the Sender address above.
------------------------NOTICE---------------------------------
Anon
In article <42Y3PM0E36709.3043402778@anonymous.poster>,
Klingsor <klin...@sorcery.con> writes:
>On 2 Jul 2000, Anonymous <nob...@neuropa.net> wrote:
>>Someone wrote:
>>> Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems
eelbash is
>>> monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy
has posted
>>> anonymous content on a public website, then posted a
pointer to it in
>>> five different newsgroups.
>>
>>Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers
for -
>>
>>http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp?
author=fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS
>>
>>Is there any wonder why anonymous remailers have such a
bad reputation?
>
>That's free speech for you!
>
>That's what remailers are *for*. They only have a bad
reputation
>amongst those who don't repect free speech and/or don't
know what it
>is.
>
>--
>Klingsor
This user known as fre...@freedom.org real name is David
Moore. He also post under the following: fre...@anet.com
and fathers...@dragoncon.net.
David Moore has been know to forge hate messages aimed at
Jewish and Aferican-Americans in the screenames of users
he has a problem with. He also tends to make up stories
about other users being arrested and convicted on anything
from DWI to domestic violence to sexual crimes to dangerous
crimes against children (includes sexual molesting of kids).
He does this behing the protection of ANET and of the many
remailers he uses.
It is this type of activity that has NO PROTECTION under the
Freedom Of Speech part of the Bill of Rights. It is also
the very type of activity that might result in laws against
anonymous remailers in the USA. Flaming a person is one
thing, posting outright lies and faux messages in their
name is something else.
David Moore claims to use remailers to prevent other users
from sending E-Mail to his ISP. Yet he maintains a web page
at ANET, and still uses an ANET reture address. So his ISP
is known.
Anon
BTW: For more information on Fre...@freedom.org cruse to
http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html There you will see his
score of past names he has used.
No User
>I just saw a message from the Orange operator that he's blocking Eelbash:
>you're going off half-cocked; reconsider.
I would ask YOU to reconsider. As a rem-op I hate abuse as much as the
next guy, and I will defend my remailer against it. HOWEVER, you must ask
yourself
---
This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was posted with the use of anonymizing software at
http://anon.xg.nu
---
Hmmmm
"Jonas" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:PNOFGFJO3670...@anonymous.poster...
> In article <TL4G745Z36709.8065393519@anonymous.poster>
> eelbas...@excite.com wrote:
>
> > I just saw a message from the Orange operator that he's blocking
Eelbash:
> > you're
> > going off half-cocked; reconsider.
>
I'll have to stop using
> Orange in my chains.
>
Farout allows nicks and I believe one or two others. But it's always nice to
see such a selfish opinion in such a high minded thread. LOL
freedom
Anon
Re: *WARNING* Eelbash scanning and divulging content
In article <42Y3PM0E36709.3043402778@anonymous.poster>,
Klingsor <klin...@sorcery.con> writes:
On 2 Jul 2000, Anonymous <nob...@neuropa.net> wrote:
Someone wrote:
Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems
eelbash is monitoring content. In this particular case, the
guy has posted anonymous content on a public website, then
posted a pointer to it in five different newsgroups.
Take a look at what this guy uses anonymous remailers
for - http://www.deja.com/=dnc/profile.xp? author=
fre...@freedom.org&ST=PS Is there any wonder why anonymous
remailers have such a bad reputation?
That's free speech for you!
That's what remailers are *for*. They only have a bad
reputation amongst those who don't repect free speech and/or
don't know
what it is.
--
Klingsor
This user known as pa...@aol.com real name is Ken Pangborn.
He also post under the following: fre...@anet.com and
fathers...@dragoncon.net.
Ken Pangborn has been know to forge hate messages aimed at
Jewish and Aferican-Americans in the screenames of users he
has a problem with. He also tends to make up stories about
other users being arrested and convicted on anything from DWI
to domestic violence to sexual crimes to dangerous crimes
against children (includes sexual molesting of kids). He does
this behing the protection of AOL and of the many remailers
he uses.
It is this type of activity that has NO PROTECTION under the
Freedom Of Speech part of the Bill of Rights. It is also the
very type of activity that might result in laws against
anonymous remailers in the USA. Flaming a person is one
thing, posting outright lies and faux messages in their name
is something else.
Ken Pangborn claims to use remailers to prevent other users
from sending E-Mail to his ISP. Yet he maintains a web page
at AOL, and still uses an AOL reture address. So his ISP is
known.
BTW: For more information on pa...@aol.com cruse to
http://www.anet.com/~freedom/pangk.html There you will see
his score of past crimes.
Dan
<ad...@mixmaster.shinn.net.no.spam.to> wrote in message
news:BwS75.91994$5k2.1...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
>
> > Given no significant response from re-mailers, it may be time for those
with
> > real privacy in mind to seek out other alternatives.
>
*is* a
> holiday weekend in the USA so relax. Sheesh... do you think we sit on
apas all day waiting to respond to any post?
> Shinn.net Anonymous Remailer Admin
Chill out, smart ass. It wasn't my intention to imply that too much time had
elapsed without response. My point, which admittedly could have been more
clear in that sentence, was that remailers such as you and orange and others
would have to respond in some way and at a time of your choosing so people
know where you stand. You and Orange admin have already responded more
quickly than I would have anticipated - we have no quarrel on that issue. I
expect the thing to work out over time and not today or THIS weekend.
As to the privacy issue, I do see your point- but I do believe there is
still an issue in and around control of the message. I've no qualm with any
re-mailer denying service to whomever they want with notification - but
taking a message from their mix and doing anything other than bucketing it
or sending it to where it is addressed seems to me to be lacking in good
judgement.
I support and use all re-mailers, yours included, and am extremely happy
with the service and patient with arising issues as I realize it ain't like
you're going to retire well-off from your sacrifice. I regret the
misunderstanding and will continue to use it even if you are a smart ass,
smart ass. ; )
I hate to lose eelbash from my options but this is a tough one I'm still
thinking on, too.
Anonymous
>"lcs Mixmaster Remailer" <m...@anon.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:200007022020...@nym.alias.net...
>> {sigh} What is happening to this newsgroup? A user of Eelbash has just
>been
>> outed. There is no worse sin for a remailer operator. And instead of
>> discussing whether or not Eelbash did the right thing, whether he should
>put
>> "mon" in his capabilities, whether freedom of speech can survive this type
>> of behavior.... you folks are discussing the merits of the outed user's
>Web
>> site!
>>
>Well, all kidding aside, I realize it is a very serious issue and felt
>troubled reading the initial post. While I can appreciate the need to
>balance freedom with responsibility and the likely need for some set of
>controls somewhere along the line ... the "outting" was way out of line IMO.
>If a remailer wants to prevent someone or something from getting through
>their system, it's difficult to argue that they don't have that right. But
>the posts which were made public were done so without any pre-notice of
>policy and were posts, in a sense, entrusted to that remailer as regards
>complete privacy. That fundamental precept upon which the whole re-mailing
>system is based was unceremoniously and extremely inappropriately trashed by
>creating that web site ... troubling indeed.
Not only that. The eelbash operator also accused the victim of having
forged another person's identity, because an attempted forgery came
through the remailer at roughly the same time.
Anonymous
>This user known as fre...@freedom.org real name is David
>Moore. He also post under the following: fre...@anet.com
>and fathers...@dragoncon.net.
You have no way of knowing for certain who it is. Even eelbash-admin,
who was running the remailer, didn't have that information. And even
if the person told you his name is David Moore, I'd bet real money that
his name really isn't David Moore.
>
>David Moore has been know to forge hate messages aimed at
>Jewish and Aferican-Americans in the screenames of users
>he has a problem with. He also tends to make up stories
>about other users being arrested and convicted on anything
>from DWI to domestic violence to sexual crimes to dangerous
>crimes against children (includes sexual molesting of kids).
>He does this behing the protection of ANET and of the many
>remailers he uses.
Again, if this is through remailers, you have no way of knowing the
origin.
>
>It is this type of activity that has NO PROTECTION under the
>Freedom Of Speech part of the Bill of Rights. It is also
>the very type of activity that might result in laws against
>anonymous remailers in the USA. Flaming a person is one
>thing, posting outright lies and faux messages in their
>name is something else.
>
>David Moore claims to use remailers to prevent other users
>from sending E-Mail to his ISP. Yet he maintains a web page
>at ANET, and still uses an ANET reture address. So his ISP
>is known.
>
>BTW: For more information on Fre...@freedom.org cruse to
>http://www.fc.net/~wrain/dmtc.html There you will see his
>score of past names he has used.
Sorry, not interested in mudslinging. The topic of this thread was the
unethical posting of anonymous messages.
ad...@mixmaster.shinn.net.no.spam.to
Dan <n...@one.com> wrote:
> In my mind, what is most important now are the opinions and policies of the
> other re-mailers. Will they object strongly, perhaps to the degree of
> re-fusing to chain through eelbash?
I haven't made up my mind up yet on blocking eelbash. On one hand, I don't like
anything that compromises the privacy of my users, but on the other hand alot of
users seem to care less about their privacy and more about the reliability of
the message getting through. Nonetheless, eelbash is accused of posting
*usenet* messages. Those are *public* messages, not private messages. So I'm
not sure if any real breach of privacy occured. Censorship is a different
story IMO. And I am vehemetly opposed to censorship, so I would recommend that
users avoid using eelbash on those grounds.
Personally, I would prefer that the end user make an informed choice and pick
the remailers they trust. Still, I have not made up my mind completely on
the issue of blocking eelbash.
> Will they say nothing and leave the user
> to wondering what might one day happen to one of their "private" posts
> should it meet with disagreement from the wrong re-mailer at the wrong time?
No need to wonder here. I will never publish content that goes thru my remailer.
I have gone to great lengths to prevent that from even being possible with my
remailer.
The mail2news gateway is a bit different, since all messages thru the gateway
*are* public messages. To maintain the programs that deliver the newsgroup
messages it is necessary to keep copies of the messages for extended periods
of time to ensure the message went thru. Again, mail2news is *not* a remailer
and there is no pretence of privacy when you are posting to a public forum
except those layers of privacy that you have taken *before* it reaches the
gateway (ie. chaining your messages thru remailers before it gets to the
gateway). Nonetheless, even though I *could* (as can all mail2news operators)
post usenet messages on the web or censor them, I will not ever censor a
usenet post for content. As far as posting usenet messages, I'm still confused
as to how anyone could think a usenet message is something private. Its
being posted to a public forum. Regardless, I can't see any need to post
usenet posts on a website or get involved in the flame wars of my users. Speech
deserves protection no matter how offensive it might be.
> I don't know. But IMO failure for the re-mailing community as a whole to
> deal with this issue repsonsibly throws the whole system off kilter and
> can't help but leave one feeling that he has no real guarantee of privacy at
> all when it comes to re-mailers anymore. But then, to some extent, maybe
> that was really just an illusion all along.
Arg... again with the privacy argument. How is censoring usenet posts a violation
of anyones privacy? Its still not a good thing to censor posts, but public posts
are just that *public*. Now, if eelbash had outed the *actual* sender of the
message, then we would have a privacy problem. I don't mean to split hairs here
but the distinction is critical.
> Given no significant response from re-mailers, it may be time for those with
> real privacy in mind to seek out other alternatives.
Oh pipe down. Some of us have lives outside of running remailers and it *is* a
holiday weekend in the USA so relax. Sheesh... do you think we sit on apas all
day waiting to respond to any post?
- --
Shinn.net Anonymous Remailer Admin
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ad...@mixmaster.shinn.net.no.spam.to
Dan <n...@one.com> wrote:
>> > Given no significant response from re-mailers, it may be time for those
> with
>> > real privacy in mind to seek out other alternatives.
>>
>> Oh pipe down. Some of us have lives outside of running remailers and it
> *is* a
>> holiday weekend in the USA so relax. Sheesh... do you think we sit on
> apas all day waiting to respond to any post?
> As to the privacy issue, I do see your point- but I do believe there is
> still an issue in and around control of the message.
I agree that its pretty silly to post usenet messages on a webpage. What I
have serious problems with is censoring the posts. Thats the real issue
in this particular case and its why I recommend against using eelbash. As
far as blocking eelbash, I am still undecided on that. I suspect too many
users will not get the messages, so to speak, to stop using eelbash and
mail will be lost.
> I've no qualm with any
> re-mailer denying service to whomever they want with notification - but
> taking a message from their mix and doing anything other than bucketing it
> or sending it to where it is addressed seems to me to be lacking in good
> judgement.
Agreed.
> I hate to lose eelbash from my options but this is a tough one I'm still
> thinking on, too.
As am I.
- --
Shinn.net Anonymous Remailer Admin
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lcs Mixmaster Remailer
eelbas...@excite.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >>>Perhaps next month Eelbash won't like racially derogative names in the
From:
> >>>header.
> >>
> >
> >"Probably" not?
> >
>
> You heard me junior.
>
If that "probably not" is your (EB admin) idea of policy and the immaturity
you are displaying in this thread is the same with which you handle our mail
- I'm sorry to say it but I've no choice but to remove your keys and cap
strings from my software. :::shaking head::: Utterly amazing. You are NOT
displaying anything like the attitude of someone who deserves to be trusted
with another's information. Very sad ... very.
Anonymous Sender
eelbas...@excite.com wrote:
>
>
> Come to think of it though, it's not a bad idea to block racial epithets,
> as well as the 7 words that George Carlin identified; it would make for a
> more wholesome anonymous usenet community. The only problem is that that
> would block about 90 percent of the posts that go through the remailer
>
Well, if your remailer ever shuts down you can always run a church
newsletter as a hobby, I suppose. Or is that a present sideline? And btw ...
interesting jump. You went from only seeing 15 bucketed posts of 25,000 or
so to professing to know what roughly 90% of the 25,000 or so do or don't
contain. When do you find time to get anything done what with all the
reading you apparently do?
Stephen K. Gielda
says...
> Glad to hear it, but I fear your often in the minority, and anonymity needs
> to be for everyone.
Those that do not send a proper message are not anonymous regardless of
you. If you can tell who sent it, so can many outside your control.
But, if you sent that message off to eelbash...he couldn't tell who
originally sent it. So, you choose to bit bucket it rather than
anonymize it...
> Lets hope Eelbash will cooperate with this simple
> "MON" string request (which I think is for his benefit as well as others,
> as once
> he openly and officially shows he monitors the hubbub will be over and no
> one will loose mail).
>
>
I want everyone to put MON in their strings. You can put IDIOT in yours.
Repeat over and over until it sinks in...
Anonymity is not dependent on the operator.
The system was built on lack of trust.
More remailers mean better anonymity...even if the damn NSA is operating
one.
Your actions do not help the cause, they hurt it.
/steve
--
Stephen K. Gielda
http://www.cotse.com
The Church of the Swimming Elephant
Have you gone to church today?
User
>Broken links can be real pains in the rear, voluntarily
>creating broken links is, IMHO, far worse than any monitoring.
>And now after you have openly and officially shown you create
>voluntarily broken chains, I hope you will cooperate by adding
>an appropriate warning in YOUR cap string.
Remailers operating a pinging service may insert a "Broken chains" part in
their stats.
It is machine-readable but not every mail client supports it.
That would inform of the "present" state of mind of orange.
But we *should* fear that it breaks more links at any moment.
And to fight that, there is no other solution but to exclude it from stats
and keyrings.
People who want to take the risk of having their mail discarded by orange
will go on using it,
they might even download their stats from it.
they might even use it as "single" (not chained) remailer (as it cares for
everything).
Others will not know of it any more.
If I remember well, Arick's stats collapsed towards 0 after its operator
decided to refuse mail from different other remailers.
And Frog Admin did exactly that:
he completely removed Arick from its public stats and keyrings
he updated the "broken links" section with half a dozen Arick > xxxxx
he publicized daily why Arick was missing
But I don't know if he did it deliberately to exclude Arick or just to
acknowledge that no ping was returned from Arick to Frog.
BilGates Remop
Anonymous <nob...@remailer.privacy.at> wrote:
>
> Following is a posting from another newsgroup. Seems eelbash is
> monitoring content. In this particular case, the guy has posted
> anonymous content on a public website, then posted a pointer to it in
> five different newsgroups.
Jesus, what a pissing contest this has turned into.
I've been a member of this little community since January, and I've seen
Eelbash bashing, Frog stomping, Orange squeezing, and Arick anality. This
one takes the damn cake.
Eelbash monitored a suspected abuser. Fine. I don't agree with that, but
I also suspect that a number of other remops have done the same,
including some very old line, 'trusted' ones.
Eelbash posted the information that he gathered publicly. Fine again.
While I strongly disagree with this tactic, it was his choice.
Would I send a chained message thru Eelbash? Yup, sure would, 'cause as
long as he's not first in my chain, I don't care.
Would I personally send a message thru Orange? Nope, sure wouldn't,
'cause I might not know who he has decided to block.
We've seen this same stupid crap before. That remop continues to block
certain remailers, including BilGates. While it pisses me off, I do not
reciprocate, because that would be bad for users.
Blocking other remailers is not the solution to the perceived problem.
All it will ever succeed in doing is making the remailer network
unreliable, which may, or may not, be an ulterior motive of some who have
so vociferously entered this thread.
I've comment previously about the 'operator in the middle' attitude.
Middlemen are greatly needed and appreciated, but have not a clue what
it's like to be in the shit storm out in the open. Without that
experience, I would suggest that their proclimations and demands could be
more tempered.
If you people are so God damned concerned about who is placed where in
your chains, configure them manually. Of course, you might have to spend
a couple of minutes looking at the stats to make an informed decision,
and it's just sooo easy to let the software pick and choose for you.
Damn near everything that is wrong with the remailer network today can be
attributed to making it too easy to use. We all used to think that
remailers were not conducive to spammers. Well, hello world, a boat load
of spam is passing thru our remailers right now. I wonder why?
To quote Stephen Gielda; "I want everyone to put MON in their strings.
You can put IDIOT in yours. Repeat over and over until it sinks in...
Anonymity is not dependent on the operator. The system was built on lack
of trust. More remailers mean better anonymity...even if the damn NSA is
operating one. Your actions do not help the cause, they hurt it."
The operative phrase here is "NOT dependent on the operator". This whole
piss-off has no relevance when you adhere to the principle of trusting no
one.
Worry about reliability, not trustability, and move the hell on to
something else.
As a footnote, and before some asshole decides to question these things,
I will state the following, for the record.
BilGates does NOT monitor any traffic.
BilGates does NOT censor any traffic.
BilGates WILL block known abusers, in a heartbeat.
BilGates DOES attempt to filter spam.
Anyone having a problem with any of that; don't use BilGates.
Paranoid
|And there's more: Eelbash is a non-middleman remailer with full 'from'
|headers, allowing you to post with all those juicy pseudonyms; with its
|24 x 7 cable connection, 0 latency, and a friendly, caring operator,
I think you did not really *get* what is going on.
Two people, coming from NOWHERE, admitting to being CONNECTED together,
start at the SAME time two "SISTER" remailers, both MIDDLEMEN and with
UNSPECIFIED geographic location.
And they start bashing the MOST succesful remailer at the moment -YOU-
With an agenda to provoke a SCHISM in the remop community, remailers
excluding each other on futile grounds.
While the network was never built on TRUST but on DISTRUST
(At the same time ATTACKING the network's quality AND minimizing the
importance of chaining,
so that people see long chains both USELESS and UNRELIABLE
and turn to shorter ones)
Sorry, too many coincidences for me: ORANGE AND GREEN ARE OUT
That is the worst and most vicious attack I saw on the remailer network
since the flooding on rec.music.opera.
Stephen K. Gielda
dr...@primenet.com says...
> I cannot speak to what others may have been engaged. The
> accounts I'm aware of you loosing were disabled, not because
> you're a jerk. They went buh-bye, because you were engaged in
> EMP spamming and forgery. It was shortly after this that you
> began misusing anonymous remailers and mail2news gateways.
>
>
I have to agree with David here. This is one of the flamefests that has
been running a long time and gotten very large. Neither parties involved
are innocent as it takes two to be just as nasty to each other to keep
something like this running this long. But that is really neither here
nor there regarding the remailers.
What does involve remailers, is that yes, lots, and I do mean lots of EMP
spamming has happened during this flamewar. And it's happened through
remailers.
Anyway, I do think both parties have worked hard at making their names
mud on usenet. IMO they should probably cool it for a bit. But thats
just an opinion. What isn't is that I know they should cease the EMP
spamming.