Deleting files with particular extension
Peter Lawton
directories including subdirectories. del only seems to work if you have the
exact path.
Thanks
Todd Vargo
"Peter Lawton" <pe...@digitalhardcore.com> wrote in message
news:3ba88...@news2.prserv.net...
DELTREE \*.eml
or
DELTREE /Y \*.eml
--
Todd Vargo (body of message must contain my name to reply by email)
Ted Davis
Got bit by W32.Nimda.A@mm did you?
There are methods of deleting with wildcards through entire directory
branches, but the syntax is operating system specific.
A method that works, and provides a convenient method of reviewing
what will happen before it actually happens is
get a dir /b listing of all possible offending files with
dir /b /s c:\*.eml > kill.txt
review the file to see if there are any files you need to keep -
delete their lines
then use a text editor to replace every instance of "C:" with "del
C:" in the file.
rename the .txt file *.bat and run it. I intentionally used a non
executable extension for the listing file so that it cannot be
accidentally run as a batch file to execute all those nasty files
until after it has become a program to remove them.
T.E.D. (tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu - e-mail must contain "batch" in the subject or my .sig in the body)
laura fairhead
C:\> DIR /S /B C:\*.EML >DO.BAT
C:\> EDIT DO.BAT
bring up the replace dialog with SEARCH->REPLACE
enter C:
in the find field
enter DEL "C:
in the replace field
press ALT+A to replace all
exit EDIT
C:\> DO.BAT
:)
byefrom
--
: ${L:-aura} # http://lf.8k.com:80
>
Outsider
>
[snipped]
> C:\> DIR /S /B C:\*.EML >DO.BAT
> C:\> EDIT DO.BAT
>
> bring up the replace dialog with SEARCH->REPLACE
> enter C:
> in the find field
> enter DEL "C:
> in the replace field
> press ALT+A to replace all
> exit EDIT
>
> C:\> DO.BAT
>
> :)
>
I know it is a trivial thing, but I'm happy to see someone is
making use of edit like I do :) :).
--
<!-Outsider//->
MS-DOS 6.22, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Netscape Communicator 4.08
There are three kinds of law in the US: State Law, Federal Law,
and Microsoft Law.
Todd Vargo
"Outsider" <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3BA9BCC6...@yahoo.com...
> laura fairhead wrote:
> >
>
> [snipped]
>
> > C:\> DIR /S /B C:\*.EML >DO.BAT
> > C:\> EDIT DO.BAT
> >
> > bring up the replace dialog with SEARCH->REPLACE
> > enter C:
> > in the find field
> > enter DEL "C:
> > in the replace field
> > press ALT+A to replace all
> > exit EDIT
> >
> > C:\> DO.BAT
> >
> > :)
> >
>
> I know it is a trivial thing, but I'm happy to see someone is
> making use of edit like I do :) :).
Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
Dr John Stockton
news:alt.msdos.batch, Peter Lawton <pe...@digitalhardcore.com> wrote at
Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:47:38 :-
>Virus infestation - I want to delete all files with an .eml extension in all
>directories including subdirectories. del only seems to work if you have the
>exact path.
HUNT *.eml "del" s p q r
is about as easy as it gets, IMHO. Use 'u' to avoid the questions. Use
'"rem"' instead of '"del"' to see what it will do. Omit 'r' to *not*
recurse rootwards; omit 's' to not recurse subdirectories. Omit "'del'"
for DIR-type action.
HUNT.(PAS,EXE,TXT,ZIP) via sig line 3; or for an older, but adequate,
version that Timo's been keeping safe from the infestation,
18696 Jan 11 2000 ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/turbopas/hunt.zip
hunt.zip Scan sub/directories + commands, w/TP src, J.Stockton
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links.
PAS, EXE in <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.txt.
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SoRFC1036)
Outsider
>
> "Outsider" <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3BA9BCC6...@yahoo.com...
[snipped]
> > I know it is a trivial thing, but I'm happy to see someone is
> > making use of edit like I do :) :).
>
> Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
>
Yes, but wordpad won't run in DOS. Besides there are other problems
with using word processors which makes them less suitable than a text
editor for writing batch files. Character handling and interpretation
may be unsuitable, for instance. There was recently a discussion
here in this group about this; someone had written one that should
have worked, but wouldn't due to proprietary character interpretation.
Charles Dye
>
> HUNT *.eml "del" s p q r
>
> is about as easy as it gets, IMHO. Use 'u' to avoid the questions. Use
> '"rem"' instead of '"del"' to see what it will do. Omit 'r' to *not*
> recurse rootwards; omit 's' to not recurse subdirectories. Omit "'del'"
> for DIR-type action.
And I was thinking that had something to do with the Senate
and People of Rome.... <grin>
--
Charles Dye ras...@highfiber.com
Todd Vargo
> Todd Vargo wrote:
> >
> > "Outsider" <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3BA9BCC6...@yahoo.com...
>
>
> [snipped]
>
> > > I know it is a trivial thing, but I'm happy to see someone is
> > > making use of edit like I do :) :).
> >
> > Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
> >
>
> Yes, but wordpad won't run in DOS. Besides there are other problems
> with using word processors which makes them less suitable than a text
> editor for writing batch files. Character handling and interpretation
> may be unsuitable, for instance. There was recently a discussion
> here in this group about this; someone had written one that should
> have worked, but wouldn't due to proprietary character interpretation.
I guess you didn't notice my "<g>".
Yes, I recall the discussion. If you recall, Wordpad has a SaveAs-Text
option. Dare I say, all word processors have a SaveAs-Text option? It's up
to the individual user to become familiar with using any particular program
one intends to use.
Outsider
>
[snipped]
> Yes, I recall the discussion. If you recall, Wordpad has a SaveAs-Text
> option. Dare I say, all word processors have a SaveAs-Text option? It's up
> to the individual user to become familiar with using any particular program
> one intends to use.
Wordpad (a.k.a. Write) is not bad. It can even handle limited
hex editing.
Todd Vargo
>
> Wordpad (a.k.a. Write) is not bad. It can even handle limited
> hex editing.
Huh? Are you promoting a Win app? Say it ain't so. <g>
Charles Dye
wrote:
>Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
As do various scriptable editors :-)
--
Charles Dye ras...@highfiber.com
Clay Calvert
wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:27:38 -0400, "Todd Vargo" <t...@birdlover.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
>
>As do various scriptable editors :-)
The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
Clay Calvert
CCal...@Wanguru.com
Replace "W" with "L"
Outsider
>
> "Outsider" <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3BAB9B23...@yahoo.com...
> >
> > Wordpad (a.k.a. Write) is not bad. It can even handle limited
> > hex editing.
>
> Huh? Are you promoting a Win app? Say it ain't so. <g>
>
> --
I use Windows regularly - just not the version most people use <g>.
I think Write is one of the better Windows programs. I even use
Word 6 (gasp) on occasion to write RTF files. BTW, since RTF files
are in ASCII format, they can be written in edit or via batch files :).
I just haven't got around to studying the coding in RTF files, so
that's why I occasionally use Word.
Rik D'haveloose
Clay Calvert wrote
>Charles Dye wrote:
> >Todd Vargo wrote:
> >
> >>Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
> >
> >As do various scriptable editors :-)
>
> The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
> Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
??? I think one is mixing some things here.
AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more around 50
KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no ~64 KB
limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
Please, do not mix different programs (although main purpose is
text-editing) to describe their possibilities. (not to mention
difference
in GUI/non-Gui settings)
ps. Is this really still a batching NG ??
--
TUF Greetings from Rumbeke
Belgium
Outsider
>
> Clay Calvert wrote
> >Charles Dye wrote:
> > >Todd Vargo wrote:
> > >
> > >>Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
> > >
> > >As do various scriptable editors :-)
> >
> > The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
> > Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
>
> ??? I think one is mixing some things here.
> AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more around 50
> KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
> Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
> standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no ~64 KB
> limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
Write.exe was included in later Windows versions and renamed wordpad.exe.
> Please, do not mix different programs (although main purpose is
> text-editing) to describe their possibilities. (not to mention
> difference
> in GUI/non-Gui settings)
>
> ps. Is this really still a batching NG ??
>
Seems dubious as of late.
--
<!-Outsider//->
MS-DOS 6.22, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Netscape Communicator 4.08
It is better to weep with wise men than laugh with fools.
Clay Calvert
<brol.d...@xs4all.be> wrote:
>
>Clay Calvert wrote
>>Charles Dye wrote:
>> >Todd Vargo wrote:
>> >
>> >>Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
>> >
>> >As do various scriptable editors :-)
>>
>> The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
>> Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
>
>??? I think one is mixing some things here.
>AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more around 50
>KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
Not all Notepads have those limitations.
>Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
>standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no ~64 KB
>limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
>
>Please, do not mix different programs (although main purpose is
>text-editing) to describe their possibilities. (not to mention
>difference in GUI/non-Gui settings)
I'm definitely not talking about Write/Wordpad
>ps. Is this really still a batching NG ??
One needs a text editor to write batch files... well there is COPY
CON, but that definitely has its limitations. ; )
Rik D'haveloose
> Rik D'haveloose wrote:
==8<
> > > The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
> > > Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
> >
> > ??? I think one is mixing some things here.
> > AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more
around 50
> > KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
> > Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
> > standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no
~64 KB
> > limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
>
> Write.exe was included in later Windows versions and renamed
wordpad.exe.
If it is renamed, then one should not name it write, imho. The easiest
way to confuse people is use other names .....(or aliases :-))
Or are you also propagating M$ -way ?? (confuse ?)
> > ps. Is this really still a batching NG ??
>
> Seems dubious as of late.
late, indeed, because i try to restrict anoyance (and replys) here
(still....)
If it stays this way, i will unsubscribe here (it really is unpleasant
for me to read here, as many people seem to forget to be friendly and do
not follow the 'implied' topic, or even react furious if redirected, and
already some XP intrusion seems to come)
If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system) users
to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong to
me....
For Clay: please, provide more info on which (standard provided, not
patched) notepad version(s) do not have the limits ? (and/or perhaps the
needed 'config' to not have those limits ?)
Clay Calvert
<brol.d...@xs4all.be> wrote:
>Outsider wrote
>> Rik D'haveloose wrote:
>==8<
>> > > The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
>> > > Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
>> >
>> > ??? I think one is mixing some things here.
>> > AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more
>around 50
>> > KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
>> > Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
>> > standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no
>~64 KB
>> > limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
>
>For Clay: please, provide more info on which (standard provided, not
>patched) notepad version(s) do not have the limits ? (and/or perhaps the
>needed 'config' to not have those limits ?)
The newest Microsoft Win32 operating system has such a Notepad, and
other Win32 OSes. However, neither Win9x nor WinME have it.
Outsider
>
> Outsider wrote
> > Rik D'haveloose wrote:
[snipped]
> > > Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
> > > standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no
> ~64 KB
> > > limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
> >
> > Write.exe was included in later Windows versions and renamed
> wordpad.exe.
>
> If it is renamed, then one should not name it write, imho.
Yes, naturally, but we all know M$' naming policies are devious marketing
practices designed to decieve.
> The easiest
> way to confuse people is use other names .....(or aliases :-))
Precisely.
> Or are you also propagating M$ -way ?? (confuse ?)
Certainly not, I was only making a clarification.
> > > ps. Is this really still a batching NG ??
> >
> > Seems dubious as of late.
>
> late, indeed, because i try to restrict anoyance (and replys) here
> (still....)
> If it stays this way, i will unsubscribe here (it really is unpleasant
> for me to read here, as many people seem to forget to be friendly and do
> not follow the 'implied' topic, or even react furious if redirected, and
> already some XP intrusion seems to come)
> If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system) users
> to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
> accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong to
> me....
Me too!
William Allen
...snip
> If it stays this way, i will unsubscribe here (it really is unpleasant
> If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system) users
> to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
> accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong to
> me....
I see no one "denying" you the opportunity to learn about your
system. If it annoys you to see posts about what people can do in
Windows 95/98/ME with the Batch language (in ways that won't
work in older DOS), then don't read such posts. They are on-Topic
here, and have a valid place in alt.msdos.batch.
Unlike you, I wouldn't unsubscribe because I see and appreciate
the many new and interesting ideas published by people such as:
Laura Fairhead
Herbert Kleebauer
Benny Pedersen
I've published a great deal of new material here myself that relates
to older systems, but I'm _not_ publishing any more material for
pre-Windows 95/98/ME Batch work for the following simple reasons:
1) I don't run one task at a time on my system.
2) I can answer or research a Windows 95/98/ME Batch question
while I continue my other work, and that's what I usually do.
3) To check or research material in MS-DOS 6.22 I have to:
a) shut down all current workspaces,
b) backup all current work (house rule before closing session),
c) reboot to a single-tasking partition with that OS,
d) do the research there,
e) reboot and re-open all my current workspaces and files again.
4) None of our customers are interested in nor use older DOS
systems. In the end, the customers pay for my time (and the
equipment and software I use), and there's a limit to how much
of it I will decide to waste.
You are free to remain indifferent to (and ignorant of) Batch
developments for OSes released after 1995. You need to accept
that if you choose this, you will fail to interpret many posts here
(and their replies) correctly. For example the post:
Subject: making choices
Message-ID: <5v5t7.10632$zu1.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
To you this may appear to be a post about the CHOICE command,
but since it uses a batch script to erase a hidden read-only system
file called USER.DAT it is almost certainly a Windows 95/98/ME
operating system where someone is restoring a registry file. Since
the Batch code as published may well corrupt the system registry
and render the OS unbootable, this needed to be pointed out in a
Windows 95/98/ME specific reply. If the OP in this case was indeed
someone who had graduated to Windows 95/98/ME from WFW (as
it appeared), then they would know what I'm talking about. If they
weren't, they could stop reading (as I clearly told them).
Legacy OS users may be confused by such replies, but knowledge
is the answer to that. And you can choose to acquire it (or not).
I now routinely state the OS that my material was created and
tested in to avoid confusion for legacy DOS users. If you want to
see more new ideas and discoveries here related specifically only
to the older versions of MS-DOS, why not post some?
--
William Allen
Outsider
In other words, you are off topic. I think the majority of your messages
in this group are off topic. Yet, you complain the loudest about off
topic messages. What are you playing, "It's the squeaky wheel that
gets the greese"? Are you going to continue squeaking? I'll bet YOU
have the record for off topic messages in this group. Sure, I post an
occasional off topic message, but why is it that YOU are the only one
who complains? In fact, several people have voiced their appreciation
of my occasional off topic messages.
Yet you continue to complain and you continue to post NT messages
here. Sure sounds hypocritical to me.
Outsider
>
> Rik D'haveloose wrote in message
> ...snip
> > If it stays this way, i will unsubscribe here (it really is unpleasant
> ...snip
> > If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system) users
> > to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
> > accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong to
> > me....
>
> I see no one "denying" you the opportunity to learn about your
> system. If it annoys you to see posts about what people can do in
> Windows 95/98/ME with the Batch language (in ways that won't
> work in older DOS), then don't read such posts. They are on-Topic
> here, and have a valid place in alt.msdos.batch.
Lots of DOS 7.x batches won't work in prior versions, but the reverse
is also true. There is no need to be arrogant and condescending.
> Unlike you, I wouldn't unsubscribe because I see and appreciate
> the many new and interesting ideas published by people such as:
> Laura Fairhead
> Herbert Kleebauer
> Benny Pedersen
>
> I've published a great deal of new material here myself that relates
> to older systems, but I'm _not_ publishing any more material for
> pre-Windows 95/98/ME Batch work for the following simple reasons:
> 1) I don't run one task at a time on my system.
>
> 2) I can answer or research a Windows 95/98/ME Batch question
> while I continue my other work, and that's what I usually do.
>
> 3) To check or research material in MS-DOS 6.22 I have to:
> a) shut down all current workspaces,
> b) backup all current work (house rule before closing session),
> c) reboot to a single-tasking partition with that OS,
> d) do the research there,
> e) reboot and re-open all my current workspaces and files again.
Very simple:
If you _know_ a DOS 7.x batch won't run in pre 7.x versions, please say
so. If you _think_ it won't run, please say so. And if you think it
_ought_ to run, please say so. Otherwise, please state which DOS
(or Windows) you tested it in and leave it at that.
[snipped]
> You are free to remain indifferent to (and ignorant of) Batch
> developments for OSes released after 1995. You need to accept
> that if you choose this, you will fail to interpret many posts here
> (and their replies) correctly. For example the post:
> Subject: making choices
I repeat: There is no need to be arrogant and condescending.
Todd Vargo
> Clay Calvert wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:40:24 +0200, "Rik D'haveloose"
> > <brol.d...@xs4all.be> wrote:
> >
> > >Outsider wrote
> > >> Rik D'haveloose wrote:
> > >==8<
> > >> > > The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
> > >> > > Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation.
> > >> >
> > >> > ??? I think one is mixing some things here.
> > >> > AFAIK Notepad has allways the ~64 KB limit (which here is more
> > >around 50
> > >> > KB, even with 128MB ram), and no replace function.
> > >> > Wordpad, afaik not the same program as Write or notepad (and only
> > >> > standard in W9x (+ later?)) does have the replace function and no
> > >~64 KB
> > >> > limit. (Write only standard in Win3.1x/WfW3.11, afaik)
> > >
> > >For Clay: please, provide more info on which (standard provided, not
> > >patched) notepad version(s) do not have the limits ? (and/or perhaps
the
> > >needed 'config' to not have those limits ?)
> >
> > The newest Microsoft Win32 operating system has such a Notepad, and
> > other Win32 OSes. However, neither Win9x nor WinME have it.
> >
>
> In other words, you are off topic.
That's a totally unfair. A question was asked here so he provided a simple
two line answer. His other reply was also just a two line comment to an
already off topic discussion.
With all his complaining about off topic posting, I'm a bit puzzled why Rik
would even ask such an off topic question. Entrapment? Tag team effort?
(Just kidding guys.) <g>
Outsider
>
[snipped]
> >
> > In other words, you are off topic.
>
> That's a totally unfair. A question was asked here so he provided a simple
> two line answer. His other reply was also just a two line comment to an
> already off topic discussion.
Please read this thread again, you have misunderstood something.
Todd Vargo said
Notepad don't have a replace function but Wordpad does. <g>
Clay Calvert said:
"The Notepad on some of Microsoft's operating systems also has a
Replace function, and there is no ~64KB limitation."
Rik D'haveloose said:
For Clay: please, provide more info on which (standard provided, not
patched) notepad version(s) do not have the limits ? (and/or perhaps the
needed 'config' to not have those limits ?)
Clay Calvert said:
"The newest Microsoft Win32 operating system has such a Notepad, and
other Win32 OSes. However, neither Win9x nor WinME have it."
[Note: notice how Clay cleverly avoids saying "NT" to try and conceal his
off topic remarks]
> With all his complaining about off topic posting, I'm a bit puzzled why Rik
> would even ask such an off topic question.
Obviously, Rik wanted to know what versions of Notepad have a replace function
because he is not familiar with any, and that is precisely why he asked. How
is Rik supposed to know in advance that Clay was talking about NT when this is
not a NT group?!? Rik's question was not off topic; some people use notepad to
write batch files (believe it or not).
> Entrapment? Tag team effort?
I act alone, without exception.
> (Just kidding guys.) <g>
I do not find your comment amusing. Please re-read this thread.
Outsider
[snipped]
> To you this may appear to be a post about the CHOICE command,
> but since it uses a batch script to erase a hidden read-only system
> file called USER.DAT it is almost certainly a Windows 95/98/ME
> operating system where someone is restoring a registry file. Since
> the Batch code as published may well corrupt the system registry
> and render the OS unbootable, this needed to be pointed out in a
> Windows 95/98/ME specific reply. If the OP in this case was indeed
> someone who had graduated to Windows 95/98/ME from WFW (as
> it appeared), then they would know what I'm talking about. If they
> weren't, they could stop reading (as I clearly told them).
BTW,
Since you talk about education so much and have boundless less praise for
Win 4.x systems (as compared to older systems), it is really quite baffling
that you _order_ someone to stop reading your response to their question
because it may not work on their system. On the one hand, you encourage
Win 4.x, and on the other hand you order people NOT to learn about it.
Todd Vargo
> > Entrapment? Tag team effort?
> I act alone, without exception.
>
> > (Just kidding guys.) <g>
>
> I do not find your comment amusing. Please re-read this thread.
Ok I did. I still have an opposing view on this. Oh well, we can't agree on
everything. But we can be civil (because it's the right thing to do) so I
wont comment any further.
Clay Calvert
I'll take that bet.
> Sure, I post an occasional off topic message, but why is it that YOU
> are the only one who complains?
Oh, but I'm not. Check again.
>In fact, several people have voiced their appreciation
>of my occasional off topic messages.
I appreciate your off topic messages too (well at least some of them).
However, do you think it fair to tell others that they can't do
something, yet you do it yourself? If you look back you will see that
I've never initiated an off-topic post.
>Yet you continue to complain and you continue to post NT messages
>here. Sure sounds hypocritical to me.
There are two issues that I have a problem with. Issue one we've
already discussed, and issue two involves when someone puts out
information that isn't correct. If someone says that "SED will only
work on Macintosh computers", there would certainly be a correction
posted.
Someone earlier in this thread stated that Notepad doesn't have a
Search and Replace function. There are, in fact, versions of Notepad
that do have this capability. Then another person asked me
specifically for clarification and I felt compelled to answer.
So, do you have anything new and exciting for us yet, now that you are
working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week on batch files? We're still
looking forward to positive output from you. ; )
Have a nice (emphasis on nice) day.
Outsider
> If you look back you will see that
> I've never initiated an off-topic post.
This is false. You have started off topic discussions.
You just started one about NT versions of notepad.
> >Yet you continue to complain and you continue to post NT messages
> >here. Sure sounds hypocritical to me.
>
> There are two issues that I have a problem with. Issue one we've
> already discussed, and issue two involves when someone puts out
> information that isn't correct. If someone says that "SED will only
> work on Macintosh computers", there would certainly be a correction
> posted.
>
> Someone earlier in this thread stated that Notepad doesn't have a
> Search and Replace function. There are, in fact, versions of Notepad
> that do have this capability.
NT versions of notepad are not on topic. Why mislead people with irrelevant
off topic information?
> Then another person asked me
> specifically for clarification and I felt compelled to answer.
Clarification? Is that why you, even then, avoided mentioning NT, except
in a very round about way? Please discuss NT matters in the NT group.
> So, do you have anything new and exciting for us yet, now that you are
> working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week on batch files? We're still
> looking forward to positive output from you. ; )
We? <lol>
I said batch programming and related projects, not batch files.
You just got some positive output. Here is more. I am looking
forward to you "letting go" and dropping your pettiness,
living your life, respecting others and having compassion.
Peace be with you :).
Timo Salmi
> Clay Calvert wrote:
> > If you look back you will see that
> > I've never initiated an off-topic post.
>
> This is false. You have started off topic discussions.
> You just started one about NT versions of notepad.
> > So, do you have anything new and exciting for us yet, now that you are
Whether whatever, http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search can
be readily and interestingly used to list and peruse old postitings.
It lists poststings from _some_ of the regulars e.g. as follows
group:alt.msdos.batch author:ccal...@wanguru.com 553
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Outsider 3530
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Benny author:Pedersen 656
group:alt.msdos.batch author:William author:Allen 1370
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Ted author:Davis 2750
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Todd author:Vargo 2030
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Laura author:Fairhead 681
group:alt.msdos.batch author:John author:Stockton 328
group:alt.msdos.batch author:Klaus author:Meinhard 132
group:alt.msdos.batch author:t...@uwasa.fi 736
Anyone with enough time and patience can easily look back and browse
the contents of that data and draw one's own conclusions.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Timo's FAQ materials at http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html
William Allen
> Virus infestation - I want to delete all files with an .eml extension in all
> directories including subdirectories. del only seems to work if you have the
> exact path.
This can be done in one command line in Windows 95/98/ME with the
Win95cmd utility, if it's installed according to the instructions in Note 1 (below)
In the Win95cmd custom DVM window in Windows 95/98/ME,
simply type the single line:
for /r c:\ %f in (*.eml) do del %f
and all the *.eml files on C: are located and deleted.
Win95cmd is proving a most useful extenstion to the Windows 95/98/ME
Batch language.
--
William Allen
Note 1:
=====General information about Win95cmd:
Win95cmd.exe is an extension for Windows 95/98/ME users interested
in using some (not all) enhanced batch language features from
Win2000. It appears to be a demo included with the Win2000 SDK
(Software Development Kit), probably used in simple presentations,
but it's downloadable free from the URLs below.
Probably better to look here:
Win95cmd.exe file is available as a single small ZIP from:
http://www.neuro.gatech.edu/users/cwilson/cygutils/unversioned/consize/
But it's also here (last time I looked) as part of the MS CAB package:
psdk-x86.49.cab:
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/developr/platformsdk/oct2000/psdk-x86.49.cab
(Note: this is a large CAB file and this site is subject to reorganisation)
======
I am not aware of the recommended method of installation
and it may well need a Kernel patch to work fully, but the
following simple kludge install gets many of the features
working, and is useful for educational purposes.
1)
To work with it, create a custom DVM consisting of a
shortcut to COMMAND.COM, and point the initialising
batch file field to a Batch script consisting of:
====
@ECHO OFF
C:\WINDOWS\WIN95CMD.EXE /k CLS
====
(alter the line to the location you use for WIN95CMD.EXE
This gets round the problem that a direct shortcut to it
doesn't preserve FONT settings in the DVM properties.
This gives you a DVM running the WIN95CMD shell.
2)
In this shortcut Properties, Miscellaneous Tab, Other section,
make sure "Fast pasting" is unchecked. This allows normal pasting
to the WIN95CMD DVM, which is obviously necessary for quick
learning. This eliminates the so-called "freeze" on cut-and-paste.
3)
The internal WIN95CMD TYPE command is Unicode compliant,
following the Win2000 standard, and doesn't work correctly with
non-Unicode files. Simply shell to:
COMMAND.COM /C TYPE
to type non-unicode files.
General points:
1)
The above method allows quite a number of features, particularly
many of the FOR IN DO extensions, to be used.
Type FOR /? for the huge list of extra FOR IN DO features
Type SET /? for the extensions to the SET command
and in general most of the InternalCommand /? help is worth reading.
2)
Some _internal_ commands generate ERRORLEVELs and the
current ERRORLEVEL can be echoed from the same-name
system variable:
ECHO. %ERRORLEVEL%
3)
You can shell to Win95cmd for a single command from a
Win95/98/ME batch file, so assuming you have Win95cmd in
your path, this can be used to, for example capture the
system DATE variable from Win95cmd:
============Screen capture in Windows 95 DOS box
C:\WORK>ver
Windows 95. [Version 4.00.1111]
C:\WORK>win95cmd /c ECHO.%%DATE%%>D.TXT
C:\WORK>type d.txt
Sun 09/09/2001
C:\WORK>
============End screen capture
Note the doubled %% in the /c shell command, since
the code needs to pass through two stages of parsing.
======
Some known problems with the above installation:
a) CapsLock works as a general ShiftLock so non-alpha keys
are out-shifted too.
b) The pipe character doesn't appear to be translated properly
so piping isn't handled
c) FOR IN DO parsing of files isn't handled, but text strings can
be parsed.
d) DOSKEY starts in overtype mode regardless of system setting.
In general, you should regard Win95cmd set up this way as a
useful educational tool, but its practical uses do seem to be growing.
Timo Salmi
> Peter Lawton wrote in message
> > Virus infestation - I want to delete all files with an .eml extension in all
> > directories including subdirectories. del only seems to work if you have the
> > exact path.
>
> This can be done in one command line in Windows 95/98/ME with the
> Win95cmd utility, if it's installed according to the instructions in Note 1 (below)
In straight MS-DOS batches the subject is covered e.g. in
74) How can I locate and e.g. delete all *.TMP files on a drive?
187202 Sep 29 2001 ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ts/tsbat68.zip
tsbat68.zip A collection of useful batch files and tricks, T.Salmi
Rik D'haveloose
first some general remark: i have no trouble with (your) W9x batch
postings (unless for some details...)
> Rik D'haveloose wrote
> ...snip
>> If it stays this way, i will unsubscribe here (it really is
unpleasant
> ...snip
>> If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system)
>> users to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
>> accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong
>> to me....
>
> I see no one "denying" you the opportunity to learn about your
> system. If it annoys you to see posts about what people can do in
> Windows 95/98/ME with the Batch language (in ways that won't
> work in older DOS), then don't read such posts.
just remark: it is very difficult to grasp directly that some 'W9x'
solution wont work, especially if the mentioning of 'only tested on
w9x(or later) is on the end of the solution message. (for me it is clear
that your messages are in that case, but only because i consider myself
a regular (altgough not regular contributor) reader. Please consider
also occasional readers (which i guess are rather numerous).
Also, istm that you forget about users who have to pay connection
costs...(not payed by other customers...) and perhaps also not aware of
how some newsreader(s) work ?
> They are on-Topic
> here, and have a valid place in alt.msdos.batch.
With that i have no troubles with, if it is about batching (and
refrains from 'promoting' some more recent OS)
but i rather refer to non-topic OS questions (mostly referred to as
NT-questions).
> Unlike you, I wouldn't unsubscribe because I see and appreciate
> the many new and interesting ideas published by people such as:
i agree, i would hate it to unsubscribe, but the '(for me) annoying'
messages take more than those. And if you cannot grasp that 'annoying
behaviour' invokes in some way a denying to learn more, then i rest my
case.
>I'm _not_ publishing any more material for
> pre-Windows 95/98/ME Batch work for the following simple reasons:
> 1) I don't run one task at a time on my system.
which is not related to batching, imho (only to OS and ??)
> 2) I can answer or research a Windows 95/98/ME Batch question
> while I continue my other work, and that's what I usually do.
here i have doubts. Mostly, as normal human, i'm not able to 'monitor'
more than one 'human task' (which excludes 'fully automated,
non-interactive tasks, which may have been created/studied/developed
earlier, and/or tasks which require time-consuming processing which
require only minor user-interaction.
> 3) To check or research material in MS-DOS 6.22 I have to:
==8<
just using (connecting) some 'dedicated' older system could solve this.
(not that i'm asking to do so from you(r team)
> 4) None of our customers are interested in nor use older DOS
> systems. In the end, the customers pay for my time (and the
> equipment and software I use), and there's a limit to how much
> of it I will decide to waste.
If you are restricting to your customers, then i wonder what you are
doing here ? Misusing the NG for commercial (paying) purposes ? Please,
i hate this thought....(and in some way are pleased that answers are
provided publicly, but then within some usenet-etiquette. (even in some
alt hierarchy)
> You are free to remain indifferent to (and ignorant of) Batch
> developments for OSes released after 1995.
that is not the purpose of my remarks, and is not the case here. I'm not
indifferent, but the NG may be (imho). If i need info on development, i
can 'subscribe' to more on-topic NG, afaik. Although knowledge of more
recent (after 1995) developments is indeed valuable for 'filtering'
usable answers (which i mostly am able), it still produces 'annoyance'
for me (and also mostly points out the difference between GUI and batch
questions, where the GUI-OS mostly also lacks apropriate automating
tools, which forces those users to go back to the (older)
batch-solution, which imho is only/justly (badly?) maintained for
compatibilty).
==8<
> To you this may appear to be a post about the CHOICE command,
> but since it uses a batch script to erase a hidden read-only system
> file called USER.DAT it is almost certainly a Windows 95/98/ME
> operating system where someone is restoring a registry file. Since
> the Batch code as published may well corrupt the system registry
> and render the OS unbootable,
indeed, now reread my previous remark above.....
Such questions are, imho, not really batch questions, and relate to
OS-specifics. If batch solution is given, one should (imho), for OS
specifics, redirect to more apropriate NG, and/or restrict OS specifics
(in some way one should consider that the OQ has enough knowledge) to
general warning.
==8<
> Legacy OS users may be confused by such replies, but knowledge
> is the answer to that. And you can choose to acquire it (or not).
indeed, but i would be pleased if i'm not forced to do it here (as that
is what i'm referring to), as it is only (in my case, and i assume
others also) more confusing and unneeded (i believe, iirc, that some
other regulars here already pointed out that batching is best restricted
for single OS, due to M$ tactics)
> see more new ideas and discoveries here related specifically only
> to the older versions of MS-DOS, why not post some?
I fear i have no knowledge of new ideas. I just follow this NG to detect
those, but not for other (off-topic) OS'es...., nor am i able to
describe correctly what should be considered on-topic in this NG, its
only my ellebow-feeling it goes into the wrong non-batch direction
(mostly
due to ignorance of new users i suppose, and due to M$ politics)
Please, although i somewhat dislike some of your (team) answers, because
they are too lengthy (and hasty?, cut/paste style, repeating topics
(faq??)), as long as they are on-topic and about (w9x) batching, i can
tolerate them. I even would suggest to create some 'Timo' style W9x -
focused posting (as addition/complementing to his 6.22 post).
Lastly, i'm aware i'm more like outsider, and maybe old-os-fashioned,
but that is my feeling (and actual need) and do not think i'm not
interested in new developments, but hope i also present some feeling of
nowaday users (of older systems).
ps. just take a look at my headers, it should reveal some things to you
(not my disliking :-), and keep in mind the (double) meaning of my sig.
Klaus Meinhard
> >> If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system)
> >> users to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
> >> accept/understand what they need to do, sorry ... that seems wrong
> >> to me....
> With that i have no troubles with, if it is about batching (and
> refrains from 'promoting' some more recent OS)
> that is not the purpose of my remarks, and is not the case here. I'm
not
> indifferent, but the NG may be (imho). If i need info on development,
i
> can 'subscribe' to more on-topic NG, afaik. Although knowledge of more
> recent (after 1995) developments is indeed valuable for 'filtering'
> usable answers (which i mostly am able), it still produces 'annoyance'
> for me (and also mostly points out the difference between GUI and
batch
> questions, where the GUI-OS mostly also lacks apropriate automating
> tools, which forces those users to go back to the (older)
> batch-solution, which imho is only/justly (badly?) maintained for
> compatibilty).
Annoyance is a very subjective emotion. As I have pointed out
repeatedly, it is not easy to define what´s on-topic here _objectively_.
So newsreader filtering and a bit of tolerance might be the best
solutions. Nobody here can stop postings that are off-topic,
malevolently flaming o whatever. But we all can behave in a civilized
way, refraining from denying a sizable percentage of the regulars here
from sharing solutions using tools after developed after 1995.
> Such questions are, imho, not really batch questions, and relate to
> OS-specifics. If batch solution is given, one should (imho), for OS
> specifics, redirect to more apropriate NG, and/or restrict OS
specifics
> (in some way one should consider that the OQ has enough knowledge) to
> general warning.
Rik, you are trying to ban MS-DOS 7 here, though it is a very useful
tool to get some productivity out of Win95. Since you are using Win9n
yourself, I cannot believe you really mean that. A question dealing with
a batch deleting USER.DAT (probably changing attributes first) is not
on-topic here? Not even the Avenger of Forgotten Edlin would go so far.
> others also) more confusing and unneeded (i believe, iirc, that some
> other regulars here already pointed out that batching is best
restricted
> for single OS, due to M$ tactics)
What is a "single OS"? I believe you mean a single-tasking OS such as
plain DOS (without the Win GUI). That may be yout wish, but I doubt that
hhe majority here i sprepared ton forswear Win 3.11 or Win9n.
> I fear i have no knowledge of new ideas. I just follow this NG to
detect
> those, but not for other (off-topic) OS'es...., nor am i able to
> describe correctly what should be considered on-topic in this NG, its
> only my ellebow-feeling it goes into the wrong non-batch direction
> (mostly
> due to ignorance of new users i suppose, and due to M$ politics)
Just keep an open mind. It is far more easy to ignore (by filtering, if
it must be) some postings than to try to force one´s own preferences
onto all others. And there´s always the chance to learn something
useful.
> Lastly, i'm aware i'm more like outsider, and maybe old-os-fashioned,
> but that is my feeling (and actual need) and do not think i'm not
> interested in new developments, but hope i also present some feeling
of
> nowaday users (of older systems).
Rik, you may prefer single-tasking, outdated Operating Systems, but
you´re not like that egomaniac at all. Believe me, sometimes in the next
five years you´ll buy a new system, it will sport the descendant of Win
XP alias NT5, and you´ll be grateful for every bit of knowledge you
gained beforehand. Some wise man said: "When you stop learning, you´re
dead."
--
Viele Grüße, best regards,
*Klaus Meinhard*
07°36´57" East 53°07´52" North
Author of the 4XBTM batch collection at http://www.4xbtm.de
PS: Am I really the only one to find it terminally funny when someone
who is fighting to create his first homepage and cannot even import a
simple text file into his html code is worrying that somebody might
steal his "design"?
Rik D'haveloose
Klaus Meinhard wrote,
>>>> If 'new'(system) users have the right to deny/annoy older (system)
>>>> users to learn more about their (not so old) system, and cannot
>> indifferent, but the NG may be (imho). If i need info on development,
i
>> can 'subscribe' to more on-topic NG, afaik. Although knowledge of
more
>> recent (after 1995) developments is indeed valuable for 'filtering'
>> usable answers (which i mostly am able), it still produces
'annoyance'
> Annoyance is a very subjective emotion.
it is indeed, although i think i am not easily annoyed (and use my mind,
as i have it, to suppress most of it).
==8<
> So newsreader filtering and a bit of tolerance might be the best
> solutions.
filtering is, for me, out of question (see some arguments given by
others). If i need to filter, then i unsubscribe.
> Nobody here can stop postings that are off-topic,
> malevolently flaming o whatever. But we all can behave in a civilized
> way, refraining from denying a sizable percentage of the regulars here
> from sharing solutions using tools developed after 1995.
this i could agree on, although i have restrictions: not all tools are
fit, at least not here. No-one (sensible) will suggest that all should
be allowed (considering usenet etiquette/behaviour, as Timo points out)
>> Such questions are, imho, not really batch questions, and relate to
>> OS-specifics. If batch solution is given, one should (imho), for OS
>> specifics, redirect to more apropriate NG, and/or restrict OS
> specifics to general warning.
==(rearranged for better understanding, as i meant ?)
>> (in some way one should consider that the OQ has enough knowledge)>
> Rik, you are trying to ban MS-DOS 7 here,
no, not intented. Please, replace OS with GUI, (and thinking about NG
name: dos....)
> tool to get some productivity out of Win95. Since you are using Win9n
> yourself, I cannot believe you really mean that.
but i mean very well: no GUI specifics/details (i do not write: solution
!)
> A question dealing with
> a batch deleting USER.DAT (probably changing attributes first) is not
> on-topic here? Not even the Avenger of Forgotten Edlin would go so
far.
solution to delete: ok, but details: no (or at least restricted to
general warning, and/or redirecting to more apropriate NG)
>> other regulars here already pointed out that batching is best
>> restricted for single OS, due to M$ tactics)
>
> What is a "single OS"? I believe you mean a single-tasking OS such as
> plain DOS (without the Win GUI). That may be your wish, but I doubt
that
> the majority here is prepared ton forswear Win 3.11 or Win9n.
single in the meaning: usable on specific defined OS (and CP)
Not meaning: single tasking (as far as GUI really is multi-tasking :-)
> Just keep an open mind.
i try, but still feel annoyed here by 'general' behaviour of users here,
who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
> Rik, you may prefer single-tasking, outdated Operating Systems, but
> you´re not like that egomaniac at all.
i prefer a 'good' OS, which is 'user minded', KISS, and not hiding
anything.
> Believe me, sometimes in the next
> five years you´ll buy a new system,
that may be, although i'm not that sure (if the annoyance in the NG
here, and for IT (as nowadays) grows...)
(the rest i leave to you to grasp....)
> it will sport the descendant of Win
> XP alias NT5, and you´ll be grateful for every bit of knowledge you
> gained beforehand. Some wise man said: "When you stop learning, you´re
> dead."
i may be learning other things also :-) (like enyoy living and doing
other things....)
> PS: Am I really the only one to find it terminally funny when someone
> who is fighting to create his first homepage and cannot even import a
> simple text file into his html code is worrying that somebody might
> steal his "design"?
i believe you are not alone :-) (at least, i'm sure i'm not alone :-)
ps. don't worry if you see no reply's from me anymore. I'm really
baffled/surprised by recent postings/opinions/hardliners, which fail to
understand the outside, (yes, i'm outside, and fear some will think bad)
and the growing OT-postings. (yes: NT)
ps2. only email will be answered.
Todd Vargo
"Rik D'haveloose" <brol.d...@xs4all.be> wrote in message
news:9pt3oi$mv0$1...@news1.xs4all.nl...
> > Just keep an open mind.
>
> i try, but still feel annoyed here by 'general' behaviour of users here,
> who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
Rik, please describe what batching means to you.
Timo Salmi
> > who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
> Rik, please describe what batching means to you.
:-) :-) Me too, me too! May I join this familiar game?
Please, define your acceptance criteria for a description.
(Sorry Todd)
All the best, Timo (aka Perfesser Pundit in news:rec.humor)
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Perfesser's nauseating puns: ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ts/tspun22.zip
Todd Vargo
"Timo Salmi" <t...@UWasa.Fi> wrote in message
news:9puc26$i...@poiju.uwasa.fi...
> Todd Vargo <t...@birdlover.com> wrote:
> > "Rik D'haveloose" <brol.d...@xs4all.be> wrote in message
> > > i try, but still feel annoyed here by 'general' behaviour of users
here,
> > > who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
>
> > Rik, please describe what batching means to you.
>
> :-) :-) Me too, me too! May I join this familiar game?
>
> Please, define your acceptance criteria for a description.
>
> (Sorry Todd)
>
> All the best, Timo (aka Perfesser Pundit in news:rec.humor)
As long as every regular is going to continue to modify the subject line
with what ever filter keyword they desire, I could ask for a list of what
are all the keywords going to be. But I wont because I have no intention of
using them anyway. The way this is going, people are eventually going to
start filtering "[" in the subject line. I sure hope no OP's uses that
character. ;-)
Ted Davis
wrote:
Not *every* regular - there are at least two of us with some sense.
Even with "start new thread when subject changes" turned off, I'm
still getting a lot of thread fragmentation ... a lot of *anoying*
thread fragmentation (but then, annoyance seems to be the main goal of
some people here).
T.E.D. (tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu)
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.
Timo Salmi
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:27:06 -0400, "Todd Vargo" <t...@birdlover.com>
> wrote:
> >using them anyway. The way this is going, people are eventually going to
> >start filtering "[" in the subject line. I sure hope no OP's uses that
> >character. ;-)
>
> Not *every* regular - there are at least two of us with some sense.
> Even with "start new thread when subject changes" turned off, I'm
> still getting a lot of thread fragmentation ... a lot of *anoying*
> thread fragmentation (but then, annoyance seems to be the main goal of
> some people here).
Well, mea culpa, as for the changes are concerned. But I do not do
it for annoyance.
I am a bit baffled, though. Don't good newsreader programs thread
messages by the header's "References:" field rather than the
"Subject:" field? Or do you mean the problems with the killfiling?
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Rik D'haveloose
> Todd Vargo wrote:
> > "Rik D'haveloose" wrote
here,
> > > who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
>
> > Rik, please describe what batching means to you.
>
> :-) :-) Me too, me too! May I join this familiar game?
>
> Please, define your acceptance criteria for a description.
As more experienced or erudite seem not to be able, I certainly feel
unable to do that, nor do i want to add more traffic for the sake of
existance of the NG (and adding more unnecessary info/space to google
?)
The only thing i feel about it, is that it is not a programming
language,
as many seem to think (and thus...., fill in yourself ?)
Otherwise, Outsiders views seems to fit best here (and i do not
understand why error reports are taken wrongly...)
If bad ISP behaviour exist, then one should not use them and use a good
one.(power of the user)(and i also do not understand why one should use
fast connections to read slow online, as is the case here)
Anyway, back to other more pleasant and usefull (non) games.
Outsider
>
> Timo Salmi wrote
> > Todd Vargo wrote:
> > > "Rik D'haveloose" wrote
> > > > i try, but still feel annoyed here by 'general' behaviour of users
> here,
> > > > who seem not to (want) understand what batching is about.
> >
> > > Rik, please describe what batching means to you.
> >
> > :-) :-) Me too, me too! May I join this familiar game?
> >
> > Please, define your acceptance criteria for a description.
>
> As more experienced or erudite seem not to be able, I certainly feel
> unable to do that, nor do i want to add more traffic for the sake of
> existance of the NG (and adding more unnecessary info/space to google
> ?)
> The only thing i feel about it, is that it is not a programming
> language,
> as many seem to think (and thus...., fill in yourself ?)
> Otherwise, Outsiders views seems to fit best here (and i do not
> understand why error reports are taken wrongly...)
Two of my error reports about almost identical batches turned out to
be erroneous themselves due to a glitch on my computer. Others I
reported correctly, but as long as they work for the "line counter"
club, then no one cares about the errors.
> If bad ISP behaviour exist, then one should not use them and use a good
> one.(power of the user)(and i also do not understand why one should use
> fast connections to read slow online, as is the case here)
Easier said than done in many cases, and for various different reasons.
--
<!-Outsider//->
MS-DOS 6.22, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Netscape Communicator 4.08
Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me
and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb
Ted Davis
>Ted Davis <tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:27:06 -0400, "Todd Vargo" <t...@birdlover.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> >using them anyway. The way this is going, people are eventually going to
>> >start filtering "[" in the subject line. I sure hope no OP's uses that
>> >character. ;-)
>>
>> Not *every* regular - there are at least two of us with some sense.
>> Even with "start new thread when subject changes" turned off, I'm
>> still getting a lot of thread fragmentation ... a lot of *anoying*
>> thread fragmentation (but then, annoyance seems to be the main goal of
>> some people here).
>
>Well, mea culpa, as for the changes are concerned. But I do not do
>it for annoyance.
I wasn't thinking of you.
>
>I am a bit baffled, though. Don't good newsreader programs thread
>messages by the header's "References:" field rather than the
>"Subject:" field? Or do you mean the problems with the killfiling?
I'm not sure what is going on. It may be that it will work on
completely new threads, and it may be that some of the messages that
don't thread properly are either new (unthreaded) posts or are replies
to messages that have been deleted or purged.
The killfile doesn't seem to be involved - the filter leaves the
messages in place, but marks them read so I don't notice them.
Outsider
>
> X-No-archive: yes
>
[good points snipped]
> Furthermore, according to Google, you can use X-No-archive: yes
> in your header, or as the first line of a post (as I have for this as
> a test), to avoid its being archived on Google if you feel it's not
> worth archiving and want to save Google some info-space
Any idea how would it be placed in one's header?
> ======
>
> As it happens, the normal PC I use doesn't have a particularly
> large main hard drive, but it has adequate space for me, despite
> the fact that huge amounts of information are now stored on it
>
> That's mostly because it's extremely tidy, and because it has
> NO information on it that I can't locate rapidly. To store information
> that isn't properly indexed or databased IS a waste of disk space.
This brings a question to mind. This may off topic and you certainly
don't need to answer, but I would be interested to learn about your
indexing system, especially in regard to DOS batch files and related
information, such as tricks, techniques, special considerations, etc.
> A simple rule:
> If it's not worth storing properly, it's not worth storing at all.
>
> Another simple rule:
> If isn't stored properly until it's properly indexed and backed up.
>
All in all, some very good points and well put.
William Allen
> William Allen wrote:
...snip
> > As it happens, the normal PC I use doesn't have a particularly
> > large main hard drive, but it has adequate space for me, despite
> > the fact that huge amounts of information are now stored on it
> >
> > That's mostly because it's extremely tidy, and because it has
> > NO information on it that I can't locate rapidly. To store information
> > that isn't properly indexed or databased IS a waste of disk space.
>
> This brings a question to mind. This may off topic and you certainly
> don't need to answer, but I would be interested to learn about your
> indexing system, especially in regard to DOS batch files and related
> information, such as tricks, techniques, special considerations, etc.
Almost entirely done with standard (commercial) database software
(MS-Access) and the databasing capabilities of the (commercial) TextPad
text editor, used in Windows 95/98/ME. For efficient operation, however,
NOTE that you need to learn properly and in _detail_ how to use this
sort of industry-standard software. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.
With TextPad, you can load a Batch workspace with custom libraries
of Batch Techniques in "clips" that are _both_ reference and instant
one-click additions to a file under development. Then, for example,
in another window, in parallel, you can load a different workspace that
does the same for HTML, and work on Batch and HTML simultaneously.
And all with syntax highlighting that auto-configures itself to the
EXTensions of the files being edited.
Furthermore, apart from macros and being able to open and operate on
hundreds of files simultaneously, TextPad has a sort of built in mini-SED
since it can use the Regular Expression syntax to process your files.
And you can do all this with your main work open (in the background)
in other windows. Typically, working on a task in Windows 95/98/ME
means first setting up many process windows and positioning and/or
configuring them properly, so you obviously avoid closing down current
work just to sort out a batch problem with a few clicks and database
searches. One key combo minimises all current windows in their
current state and a few clicks opens and sets up my Batch Workspace
and the DVM windows it needs. When that job's done, one key combo
restores all my other work exactly as it was the moment I left it.
That's why rebooting to MS-DOS 6.22 is such a tiresome, costly
nuisance even though it's only about 60 seconds away as I type.
To go there now I would have to close about ten windows I currently
have very carefully set up, then back up all current work (because I
don't end a session without backing up). And only then reboot to a
tiny primary partition running 6.22. Then when I come back I have
to set up all my other work again. If it seems that sometimes I don't
bother with 6.22 points or just forget it, that's why. I won't say anything
I've just written works in 6.22 unless I personally test it, even if it looks
like it should. This is something 6.22-ers need to understand. When
Timo Salmi responded positively, I shut down all the paying work, and
spent a fair while testing in 6.22 but for anyone who remotely seems
to me offensive (and that means in _my_ opinion), frankly I won't bother.
And we certainly can't justify wasting a machine as a stand-alone
6.22 system for charity work (which is effectively what Usenet is).
======
Two more rules we use here:
1) Use as little software as possible BUT if it's really good and it's
commercial, _don't_ stint, buy it.
2) Learn to use the little software you do install _thoroughly_ and I
mean _THOROUGHLY_. If it turns out to be not worth learning to
use thoroughly, write off what it cost (if anything), erase it now,
and move on.
For anyone who places any value on their time, nearly all the
true cost of even apparently expensive-price-tag software is in
the time you spend learning to use it _properly_.
--
William Allen
TextPad is commercial software. I am not connected with
its manufacturers except as a normal paying customer.
Details from http://www.textpad.com/download/index.html
Each TextPad license costs about £25-ish as I recall, but
lasts through quite a lot of upgrades. We purchased
our licenses in August 1999 and they're still valid for using
the very latest version. And you don't have to upgrade if
you don't want to, in which case a license lasts for ever.
However, it's a very feature-filled and complex program, and if you
aren't prepared to learn to use it properly, it's not worth buying.
ttu...@ecn.ab.ca
: X-No-archive: yes
<snip>
: A simple rule:
: If it's not worth storing properly, it's not worth storing at all.
: Another simple rule:
: If isn't stored properly until it's properly indexed and backed up.
<snip>
--> A poster I have up on the fake wall of my work cubicle:
There are two kinds of Data in the World...
That which is Backed-Up and that which is Not.
Which kind is Yours?
(this annoys our IT people - who get tired of the end-users
waking-up to the full implications of this statement; but has
always worked for me!)
--
E.A.G.L.E Librarian A3 BBS:403/481-3133 email:ttu...@ecn.ab.ca
Charles Dye
<ma...@mayfly13.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Two more rules we use here:
>
>1) Use as little software as possible BUT if it's really good and it's
>commercial, _don't_ stint, buy it.
>
>2) Learn to use the little software you do install _thoroughly_ and I
>mean _THOROUGHLY_. If it turns out to be not worth learning to
>use thoroughly, write off what it cost (if anything), erase it now,
>and move on.
That's three rules. "Amen" to all three.
--
Charles Dye ras...@highfiber.com
Mike Jones
"Todd Vargo" <t...@birdlover.com> wrote in message
news:9qbgd2$nacre$1...@ID-25025.news.dfncis.de...
> "Timo Salmi" <t...@UWasa.Fi> wrote in message
>
> > That is killfiling. Threading is slightly different. What I was, and
> > am, baffled about (technically) is why threads are (were reported)
> > broken. I am baffled because I thought threading went my the
> > "References:" field in the header and did not involve the "Subject:"
> > header.
> >
> > Since this is partly different from the other, also relevant []
> > killfiling discussion, that I made a separate followup posting of
> > this aspect.
>
> As far as I can tell, the only message that was orphaned from the
original
> thread "Deleting files with particular extension" was Mike Jones'
post.
>
> From: "Mike Jones" <ad...@127.0.0.1>
> Followup-To: alt.test
> Subject: Re: [NO GAME] What is BATCHing?: Xnoarchive
> Distribution: X-No-Archive: Yes
> Message-ID: <jlSx7.13600$oE5.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
>
> And I just discovered why my reply to that post never showed up here.
I
> didn't notice he set follow-up to a test group. :( I'll repost my
reply
> again so it shows up here.
>
I changed the header (as the subject had changed) by adding Xnoachive,
and, as it was only intended as a test, set the follow-ups. Shurely any
such followon is irrelevant to BATching. If you replied to Timo Salmi's
post, then it presumably would have shown up correctly threaded (I don't
read his posts). OK I won't set the follow-ups on this one; I'll just
let it lie.
Outsider
>
> Outsider wrote in message
> > William Allen wrote:
> ...snip
> > > As it happens, the normal PC I use doesn't have a particularly
> > > large main hard drive, but it has adequate space for me, despite
> > > the fact that huge amounts of information are now stored on it
My C: drive has 262.909.952 bytes total disk space and 4,096 bytes in
each allocation unit or cluster. It has alwways been this size except
when I only had one 407MB disk, then the C: was 128MB and clusters were
2,048. I recently tried to backup my C: drive to that 407 MB harddisk
and it wouldn't fit! I fdisked it down to 255MB and formatted it and
skipped the rest of the disk because I ran out of drive letters.
The C: drive fits there now perfectly.
> > > That's mostly because it's extremely tidy, and because it has
> > > NO information on it that I can't locate rapidly. To store information
> > > that isn't properly indexed or databased IS a waste of disk space.
> >
> > This brings a question to mind. This may off topic and you certainly
> > don't need to answer, but I would be interested to learn about your
> > indexing system, especially in regard to DOS batch files and related
> > information, such as tricks, techniques, special considerations, etc.
>
> Almost entirely done with standard (commercial) database software
> (MS-Access) and the databasing capabilities of the (commercial) TextPad
> text editor, used in Windows 95/98/ME. For efficient operation, however,
> NOTE that you need to learn properly and in _detail_ how to use this
> sort of industry-standard software. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.
I can see that. I work very much differently because I don't depend on
Windows; all I need is DOS and I can take my work to any DOS system,
Windows or not. I never did get into databases; I did a little SQL
programming and found it was remarkably similar to batch programming,
but boring. Basically, all you do is move data from cells in one table
to another. Nothing creative there.
> With TextPad, you can load a Batch workspace with custom libraries
> of Batch Techniques in "clips" that are _both_ reference and instant
> one-click additions to a file under development. Then, for example,
> in another window, in parallel, you can load a different workspace that
> does the same for HTML, and work on Batch and HTML simultaneously.
> And all with syntax highlighting that auto-configures itself to the
> EXTensions of the files being edited.
Interesting. Editpad and Programmers File Editor are both free, but I
don't know how they compare to textpad. PFE also comes in a 16 bit version.
> Furthermore, apart from macros and being able to open and operate on
> hundreds of files simultaneously, TextPad has a sort of built in mini-SED
> since it can use the Regular Expression syntax to process your files.
>
> And you can do all this with your main work open (in the background)
> in other windows. Typically, working on a task in Windows 95/98/ME
> means first setting up many process windows and positioning and/or
> configuring them properly, so you obviously avoid closing down current
> work just to sort out a batch problem with a few clicks and database
> searches. One key combo minimises all current windows in their
> current state and a few clicks opens and sets up my Batch Workspace
> and the DVM windows it needs. When that job's done, one key combo
> restores all my other work exactly as it was the moment I left it.
>
> That's why rebooting to MS-DOS 6.22 is such a tiresome, costly
> nuisance even though it's only about 60 seconds away as I type.
> To go there now I would have to close about ten windows I currently
> have very carefully set up, then back up all current work (because I
> don't end a session without backing up).
Isn't there an option (aftermarket program?) to return exactly to the
previous state after a reboot? BTW, have you considered VMware might be a
viable and useful tool?
> And only then reboot to a
> tiny primary partition running 6.22. Then when I come back I have
> to set up all my other work again. If it seems that sometimes I don't
> bother with 6.22 points or just forget it, that's why. I won't say anything
> I've just written works in 6.22 unless I personally test it, even if it looks
> like it should. This is something 6.22-ers need to understand.
I understand; it's a real hassle and you have no real need for it.
Again, I am very happy to test batches in 6.22.
...snip
> Two more rules we use here:
>
> 1) Use as little software as possible BUT if it's really good and it's
> commercial, _don't_ stint, buy it.
>
> 2) Learn to use the little software you do install _thoroughly_ and I
> mean _THOROUGHLY_. If it turns out to be not worth learning to
> use thoroughly, write off what it cost (if anything), erase it now,
> and move on.
>
> For anyone who places any value on their time, nearly all the
> true cost of even apparently expensive-price-tag software is in
> the time you spend learning to use it _properly_.
I can only agree, except I can't afford to buy anything :(.
...snip
Ted Davis
>Todd Vargo <t...@birdlover.com> wrote:
>> "Ted Davis" <tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu> wrote in message
>> > On 12 Oct 2001 17:27:10 +0300, t...@UWasa.Fi (Timo Salmi) wrote:
>> > >Well, mea culpa, as for the changes are concerned. But I do not do
>> > >it for annoyance.
>
>> > >I am a bit baffled, though. Don't good newsreader programs thread
>> > >messages by the header's "References:" field rather than the
>> > >"Subject:" field? Or do you mean the problems with the killfiling?
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what is going on. It may be that it will work on
>> > completely new threads, and it may be that some of the messages that
>
>> I was thinking of the setting up a killfile sense. The idea of placing
>
>I reponded to the killfile content selection aspect in another
>posting. Here is separately another aspect. Technically killfiling
>(I would prefer to positively call it automated selection filtering)
>can be basically based on three parts of the postings
>
> The subject header (the quickest)
> All the header (rather quick, and does not need all the posting)
> All the message (takes longer, needs downloading the entire message)
>
>That is killfiling. Threading is slightly different. What I was, and
>am, baffled about (technically) is why threads are (were reported)
>broken. I am baffled because I thought threading went my the
>"References:" field in the header and did not involve the "Subject:"
>header.
>
>Since this is partly different from the other, also relevant []
>killfiling discussion, that I made a separate followup posting of
>this aspect.
Different clients offer different filtering capabilities. They range
from the complete and unlimited filtering available to experts with
the classic Unix mail utilities to none at all. I use Agent, and it
offers only the most common filtering: by author's name, though it
offers options to delete the message or to mark it read (the former
screws up threading).
Threading rules also vary: some assume that any message posted as a
reply to another message is part of the same thread, and others assume
that different subjects (ignoring "Re:") are in different threads.
The latter is more generally useful because people seldom change the
subject unless the subject changes enough to no longer be appropriate
for the original thread, or the thread depth has become unmanageable
(several hundred messages in (say) twenty or more levels is completely
unmanageable as a single thread in any threading display because parts
are off screen to the right, compressed into a single column,
truncated, or missing entirely; and parts are off screen top and
bottom. If only limited numbers of messages or headers are kept in
the data base, this sort of thing will fragment anyway because the
early parent messages will be missing. Subject changes in those
circumstances are quite reasonable, as are changes to indicate that a
portion of a thread is in reply to an earlier message, but to a side
remark in it that isn't really part of the main discussion.
I find changing the subject in an effort to clarify or categorize the
content to be more confusing than useful, and catastrophic when it
comes time to use a script to extract messages from a message database
through pattern matching.
T.E.D. (tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu - e-mail must contain "batch" in the subject or my .sig in the body)
Dr John Stockton
news:alt.msdos.batch, Timo Salmi <t...@UWasa.Fi> wrote at Sun, 14 Oct 2001
08:46:51 :-
>I reponded to the killfile content selection aspect in another
>posting. Here is separately another aspect. Technically killfiling
>(I would prefer to positively call it automated selection filtering)
>can be basically based on three parts of the postings
>
> The subject header (the quickest)
> All the header (rather quick, and does not need all the posting)
> All the message (takes longer, needs downloading the entire message)
>
>That is killfiling. Threading is slightly different. What I was, and
>am, baffled about (technically) is why threads are (were reported)
>broken. I am baffled because I thought threading went my the
>"References:" field in the header and did not involve the "Subject:"
>header.
This all depends, to a significant extent, on the news-server and news-
reader software.
The RFCs probably provide a good guide to which parts of an article can
be independently fetched by a reader; in my case, this is message-ID (I
think; by NEWNEWS), then full header, then body of article. I don't
think filtering in Subject is significantly quicker than filtering on
Author or on Newsgroups line for me.
My reader threads on References, but also heeds the Subject line, so
that separate threads (by Reference) with a common subject line will be
displayed adjacent.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)
Dr John Stockton
news:alt.msdos.batch, Ted Davis <tda...@gearbox.maem.umr.edu> wrote at
Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:54:32 :-
> ...
>Threading rules also vary: some assume that any message posted as a
>reply to another message is part of the same thread, and others assume
>that different subjects (ignoring "Re:") are in different threads.
>The latter is more generally useful because people seldom change the
>subject unless the subject changes enough to no longer be appropriate
>for the original thread,
Not quite so, IMHO; some people change the Subject when they change the
topic, but [more] often the Subject is changed to match an already
well-established change of topic. Threading by Reference, combined with
putting threads with the same Subject adjacent, works well; and ISTM
that nothing other than threading based also upon an understanding of
the body could work much better.
> or the thread depth has become unmanageable
>(several hundred messages in (say) twenty or more levels is completely
>unmanageable as a single thread in any threading display because parts
>are off screen to the right, compressed into a single column,
>truncated, or missing entirely; and parts are off screen top and
>bottom.
Again, very dependent of the software selected by the user. In my
expanded thread view, I can have over 25 distinct branches and 45
messages shown on-screen at once.
> If only limited numbers of messages or headers are kept in
>the data base, this sort of thing will fragment anyway because the
>early parent messages will be missing.
It need not fragment; if most articles give References as recommended by
RFCs, the structure of the tree can be derived, by the software, even
where the messages are missing. And it is I, and not my ISP, who
determine how long messages are kept in each newsgroup.
> ...
Ted Davis
I was in a 10000+ message thread once. I don't think *any* software
could have made that managable.
>
>> If only limited numbers of messages or headers are kept in
>>the data base, this sort of thing will fragment anyway because the
>>early parent messages will be missing.
>
>It need not fragment; if most articles give References as recommended by
>RFCs, the structure of the tree can be derived, by the software, even
>where the messages are missing. And it is I, and not my ISP, who
>determine how long messages are kept in each newsgroup.
I generally keep fewer than 500 or so per group. The number of
messages kept influences the time required to sync multiple instances
of the reader through a common newsrc file, one of which is at the
far end of a 24000 bps link with up to 30% CRC errors (wet mornings),
and also impacts the readability of the index: big indexes are hard to
use. I try not to delete headers of active threads, but every now and
again somebody comes along a thread has died and posts to it.
Dr John Stockton
>>> If only limited numbers of messages or headers are kept in
>>>the data base, this sort of thing will fragment anyway because the
>>>early parent messages will be missing.
>>
>>It need not fragment; if most articles give References as recommended by
>>RFCs, the structure of the tree can be derived, by the software, even
>>where the messages are missing. And it is I, and not my ISP, who
>>determine how long messages are kept in each newsgroup.
>
>I generally keep fewer than 500 or so per group. The number of
>messages kept influences the time required to sync multiple instances
>of the reader through a common newsrc file, one of which is at the
>far end of a 24000 bps link with up to 30% CRC errors (wet mornings),
>and also impacts the readability of the index: big indexes are hard to
>use. I try not to delete headers of active threads, but every now and
>again somebody comes along a thread has died and posts to it.
Which provides further confirmation that the set of types of news
software behaviour known to you (and that known to me) is but a subset
of the set of all types.