Exact same Linux configuration on multiple PCs... possible? how?
Jake
(NOTE: please advise if this is posted in the wrong group, or what
keywords to search for for help elsewhere.)
I've only ever used Linux once or twice before for a few hours, but
want to migrate to it (for desktop use).
This is what I want to do (read below for specs and where its being
done):
- Install Linux (maybe RedHat 9?), on a computer and play with it for
a few hours until it works perfectly for my needs. Install loads of
applications, tweak the applications, get any updates which may be
needed etc.
- On one or more identically spec'ed PC (though different brand
monitor), have the exact same stuff. i.e. copy everything from the
other Linux installation, including installed software, configuration,
tweaks etc.
- Once every few months, I may want to make some changes, add more
applications, change some configurations. I don't want to have to redo
the same tasks on each computer. I want to do it once on one computer,
and then somehow copy the changes across all of the computers.
- The computers will be networked together. I want all user files to
be stored on just one of the computers, accessible by all the
computers, and not deleted by any updates. For example, at the moment
I use Windows 2000 on 2 computers. All user files are stored in 'My
Documents' on computer #1. An alias on computer #2's 'My Documents'
link goes to this, and this is what I want on my Linux too.
- I don't want a separate computer which is a 'server' if I can help
it. I want all the PCs to be desktops, although one of them with the
user files (MP3s, text documents etc).
---
I want to do this in two places:
- Home. 2 PCs (and perfect testing ground for...)
- University halls of residence. 6-10 PCs.
---
Computers being used:
- Silent, small and cheap Via mini-itx 600MHz
- USB bootable
- Network bootable
- Preferrably without internal CD drives
- One external CDRW drive which can be used in all PCs
-----
Any ideas? I'm thinking something along the lines of straight hard
disk copies? Can this be done? Would it be better to use Win 2K (and
pay a few 100 Ł's)?
Thanks in advance,
Jake.
Joe Beanfish
Look into rsync. http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=rsync§ion=projects
Dr. Yuan LIU
Technically sound, with the added benefit of not (quite) depending on
hardware, but very demanding in implementation.
Funny how we had a hot thread about VMWare recently in another group:
this is a perfect example of VM's valid value. Install Linux in a VM,
play with it, tweak it, then clone it, again and again, at any given
moment (well, better shutdown). How? By simply copying a couple of
files. Sure, if you clone across different CPU's, you pay for license
on each. BTW, this is also hardware-independent, though virtual
hardware would be identical. Another benefit: you can deploy this VERY
quickly across an organization, no matter what OS people run originally.
(Currently limited to Linux and Windows; FreeBSD might be there.)
Hope this helps.
Yuan Liu
Dr. Yuan LIU
Another possible commercial solution is of course things like Ghost.
This requires a fair amount of hardware homogeneity, but could be
cheaper in terms of license cost.
Lucius Chiaraviglio
>(NOTE: please advise if this is posted in the wrong group, or what
>keywords to search for for help elsewhere.)
Seems like the right place.
>[. . .]
>This is what I want to do (read below for specs and where its being
>done):
>
>- Install Linux (maybe RedHat 9?), on a computer and play with it for
>a few hours until it works perfectly for my needs. Install loads of
>applications, tweak the applications, get any updates which may be
>needed etc.
>
>- On one or more identically spec'ed PC (though different brand
>monitor), have the exact same stuff. i.e. copy everything from the
>other Linux installation, including installed software, configuration,
>tweaks etc.
See instructions using tar at http://tinyurl.com/dm6w (also see
http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/ and http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/mindi/
for some other utilities that look useful for backing up systems, but I
haven't tried these yet). I think somebody also posted instructions using
rsync to do this, but you'll have to search for that.
>- Once every few months, I may want to make some changes, add more
>applications, change some configurations. I don't want to have to redo
>the same tasks on each computer. I want to do it once on one computer,
>and then somehow copy the changes across all of the computers.
You could use the same method(s) as above, but rsync really sounds
better for this, although I haven't tried it yet.
>- The computers will be networked together. I want all user files to
>be stored on just one of the computers, accessible by all the
>computers, and not deleted by any updates. For example, at the moment
>I use Windows 2000 on 2 computers. All user files are stored in 'My
>Documents' on computer #1. An alias on computer #2's 'My Documents'
>link goes to this, and this is what I want on my Linux too.
>
>- I don't want a separate computer which is a 'server' if I can help
>it. I want all the PCs to be desktops, although one of them with the
>user files (MP3s, text documents etc).
You do need to set one of the computers up to be a server (it can
also be a workstation) in order to do this.
>[. . .]
>Any ideas? I'm thinking something along the lines of straight hard
>disk copies? Can this be done? Would it be better to use Win 2K (and
>pay a few 100 £'s)?
Using Windows 2000 will not help you duplicate your Linux
configuration between systems.
Joe Beanfish <joebe...@nospam.duh> wrote:
[. . . quoted whole original message . . .]
>Look into rsync. http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=rsync§ion=projects
Sounds nice, but did you have to quote the whole original post
just to say this?
--
Lucius Chiaraviglio
Approximate E-mail address: luci...@chapter.net
To get the exact address: ^^^ ^replace this with 'r'
|||
replace this with single digit meaning the same thing
(Spambots of Doom, take that!).
Jake
Thanks Joe and everyone else. Here's where I'm at now...
Firstly, VNC isn't approrpriate because the plan is to have x
identical machines which are very cheap (around £250) and can run
*silently*, but have easily sufficient processing power and HDD space
so that applications could run locally. VNC, I believe, is designed to
make lots of old machines work well because a 'super-server' is doing
all the work for them. That is not what I want or need. The
'super-server' would cost at least £1,000 - same price as four of my
desired machines. Also, because this is to work in a public-access
computer room with little (read: no) security/maintenance, what
happens if someone turns off the server, or disconnects the hub or an
ethernet lead? All the PCs can go down. These are Windows desktop
replacements running OpenOffice, Firebird and GAIM... memory/processor
heavy = big server needed.
Also, another idea is to provide/sell cheap computers for student
bedrooms. Here, the idea is to configure a perfect and *usable* linux
desktop myself, and then to somehow clone that onto any sold machines.
Total student-ready cost of around £250, much cheaper than a Dell
w/Windows equivalent.
I had a look around the net for 'rsync', 'clone' and 'image' and
stumbed upon the 'System Installation Suite' which looks ideal for my
needs! This suite consists of three parts:
- System Configurator
- System Installer
- System Imager
I've read the manual for the System Installer and it works like this:
1. I install and configure Linux on one PC. I install all my
applications, change any files etc. I make it perfect. This is known
as the 'Golden Client'. I install the Golden Client software on it
from the System Installer software package.
2. I prepare a computer as an Image Server, installing the
approrpriate software on it from the System Installer package. I then
run a command which tells it to make an image of the Golden Client,
and it stores it on the Image Server.
3. I tell the Image Server what clients its going to be installing
onto, including configuring DHCP and giving them IP addresses.
4. I boot the (new, not 'Golden') clients using a bootable diskette
created by the Image Server, or using PXE network boot.
5. Once booted, they grab the image from the Image Server and, using
rsync, copy it onto themselves. After about 15 minutes, its finished,
and they're all identical to the Golden Client in every way.
6. I sit back and congratulate myself on a jolly good job (especially
since its the first time I've ever used Linux properly). No doubt I'll
probably be hairless by this time too, after pulling out my hair
during numerous problems along the way!
7. If I want to change anything, I change it on a client (any one, as
any one can be a Golden Clients if I wish) and then create a new image
to send to the Image Server. Then, I run 'pushupdate' on the Image
Server and it rsync's with all the clients on its list,
updating/deleting only files which have changed (i.e. it doesn't
reinstall the whole disk image)
-----
Only issues I've got now are:
- What am I going to use as the image server? The original hope was to
allow all computers to be used as clients. I don't think that'll be
possible. I'll have to use one of the computers as a separate server.
But also use this as the user files server, so they can access all
their MP3s, OpenOffice XMLs etc from any computer.
- Will it actually work?! Just how much will go wrong, and how long
will it take to get workign?!!
- Will I be able to create a Linux which people will use without
saying "bloody geek... where's my Word? I want MSN! I don't like this
penguin crap". My hope is, after a little trial and error I'll be able
to create something truly usable and familiar to Windows migrants
(possibly with the help of XPDE.com).
- How much scope for hardware differences will this allow? For
example, whilst all new computers will be Via Epia ME6000 and M1000 +
machines, will I also be able to use it on older machines?
Any more help would be very much appreciated!!!
(P.S: My two new PCs for home - Via Edens of course - are arriving
next week. £510 for two of them)
Cheers,
Jake.
David Utidjian
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html
-DU-...etc...
lcoe
[....]
> Total student-ready cost of around ú250, much cheaper than a Dell
> w/Windows equivalent.
> I had a look around the net for 'rsync', 'clone' and 'image' and
> stumbed upon the 'System Installation Suite' which looks ideal for my
> needs! This suite consists of three parts:
> - System Configurator
> - System Installer
> - System Imager
> I've read the manual for the System Installer and it works like this:
what is the cost?
> 1. I install and configure Linux on one PC. I install all my
> applications, change any files etc. I make it perfect. This is known
> as the 'Golden Client'. I install the Golden Client software on it
> from the System Installer software package.
> 2. I prepare a computer as an Image Server, installing the
> approrpriate software on it from the System Installer package. I then
[....]
> 6. I sit back and congratulate myself on a jolly good job (especially
> since its the first time I've ever used Linux properly). No doubt I'll
> probably be hairless by this time too, after pulling out my hair
> during numerous problems along the way!
likely, very likely, depending on your time frame. days, weeks, months?
[...]
> But also use this as the user files server, so they can access all
> their MP3s, OpenOffice XMLs etc from any computer.
> - Will it actually work?! Just how much will go wrong, and how long
> will it take to get workign?!!
well, *nix IT dept's have done complete os upgrades remotely, site
wide (600 or so clients) for several years. not just minor, but major
upgrades. i am sure it's been done in Msoft shops by now.
> - Will I be able to create a Linux which people will use without
> saying "bloody geek... where's my Word? I want MSN! I don't like this
> penguin crap". My hope is, after a little trial and error I'll be able
> to create something truly usable and familiar to Windows migrants
> (possibly with the help of XPDE.com).
if you have clients that expect MSoft products, it is going to be
an uphill battle, imho. one suggestion would be to offer the
"Dell Solution" to thesed 'Dudes', say 8-900bucks a pop, and put
the onus on them to choose.
good luck, you're going to need it. --Loren
Jake
> > I had a look around the net for 'rsync', 'clone' and 'image' and
> > stumbed upon the 'System Installation Suite' which looks ideal for my
> > needs! This suite consists of three parts:
> > - System Configurator
> > - System Installer
> > - System Imager
>
> > I've read the manual for the System Installer and it works like this:
>
> what is the cost?
I believe its free. Its a sourceforge project:
http://systeminstaller.sourceforge.net/
> > 6. I sit back and congratulate myself on a jolly good job (especially
> > since its the first time I've ever used Linux properly). No doubt I'll
> > probably be hairless by this time too, after pulling out my hair
> > during numerous problems along the way!
>
> likely, very likely, depending on your time frame. days, weeks, months?
Well, if it all goes wrong, I can always learn from experience,
install Win 2K for now and then try again some other time. Timeframe
or around a week.
> > - Will it actually work?! Just how much will go wrong, and how long
> > will it take to get workign?!!
>
> well, *nix IT dept's have done complete os upgrades remotely, site
> wide (600 or so clients) for several years. not just minor, but major
> upgrades. i am sure it's been done in Msoft shops by now.
Let's hope I can figure it out too!
> > - Will I be able to create a Linux which people will use without
> > saying "bloody geek... where's my Word? I want MSN! I don't like this
> > penguin crap". My hope is, after a little trial and error I'll be able
> > to create something truly usable and familiar to Windows migrants
> > (possibly with the help of XPDE.com).
>
> if you have clients that expect MSoft products, it is going to be
> an uphill battle, imho. one suggestion would be to offer the
> "Dell Solution" to thesed 'Dudes', say 8-900bucks a pop, and put
> the onus on them to choose.
They can get a Dell from Dell, no problems. I want to provide a (far
cheaper) alternative, whilst also proving that Linux can be a desktop
solution. With Ximian I can create a very user-friendly desktop, or
using XPde.com I can clone Windows. I know its going to be an uphill
battle, but its another fun little project for me to do, helping me to
increase my own personal knowledge and expertise.
> good luck, you're going to need it. --Loren
Thanks Loren!
Jake
> Have you looked at Red Hat's kickstart?
> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html
>
> -DU-...etc...
I've had a look but I don't think its what I'm looking for. Correct me
if I'm wrong, but I believe it only installs the vanilla RedHat, plus
a selection of RPMs. What I'm looking to do is some serious
modifications to increase usability and allow Windows converts to feel
at home. For example, making OpenOffice look more like Microsoft
Office, possibly installing a Windows desktop clone (i.e. XPde.com
rather than KDE or GNOME) etc. I don't believe that Kickstart can do
these things. But System Installer (
http://systeminstaller.sourceforge.net/ ) seems quite capable.
Jake.
Nico Kadel-Garcia
Anything you can shell script or write as a program, you can put in the
kickstart pre or post installation scripting and call from there. I tend
to put post-installation steps like ripping out dangerous packages
there, turning on or off services I don't want, etc.
Loren Coe
but he will still have to visit (in person) each box, right? --Loren
Lucius Chiaraviglio
>lcoe <lc...@c1932201-a.attbi.com> wrote in message news:<DnsEa.610075$Si4.5...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
>> > I had a look around the net for 'rsync', 'clone' and 'image' and
>> > stumbed upon the 'System Installation Suite' which looks ideal for my
>> > needs! This suite consists of three parts:
>> > - System Configurator
>> > - System Installer
>> > - System Imager
>>
>> > I've read the manual for the System Installer and it works like this:
>>
>> what is the cost?
>
>I believe its free. Its a sourceforge project:
>http://systeminstaller.sourceforge.net/
Yes. Follow the links to each of the 3 components at the System
Installer Suite home page (http://www.sisuite.org/) and browse CVS to find
the file COPYING. All 3 components are under the GPL.