Fun with Carl's sourdough starter
Dodger
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/waynepics/waynebread.html
I was emailed the following question about how I activate the starter
for bread making. It was suggested that I post my reply to r.f.s, as
there might be some general interest.
>I would be most appreciative if you could describe your method of
>activating the starter. I am very interested in that, because I am
>beset with the problem of starter poop-out. As a result of that, I
>get only a dozen or so good high-rise bakes out of a starter, and then I
>need to send for a new start. It is true for Carl's, and for other
>starters too. Possibly it has something to do with the way in which I
>am maintaining|refreshing the starters.
That sounds something like what was happening to me, first with my DIY
starters, then with Carl's. In my case, I think I was killing my starter
with too much heat.
At about that time, I decided to start eliminating all possible
variables and just working with Carl's, as it was of a known quality.
I bought a thermometer and started recording temps at each stage of the
process.
This is when I found that my oven was hotter in the back then the front.
Also found that with the oven door closed and the light on, the temps
got over 110 degrees. This was killing some part of the culture and
really screwing things up.
(I was using the oven light to force the starter and force the dough
and well, you know how it goes). I've had to learn some patience lately.
I spent several late nights reading every thing I could find on Carl's,
and came to the conclusion that it worked better when it was under 80
degrees. After considerable testing I've settled on getting my fresh
starter to 80 degrees, then letting every thing settle down to room
temperature.
When the weather was hot and the A/C was on, room temp was ~78 degrees.
That's when I started getting those nice fat loaves. Since then, the
weather has cooled off and the heat is on. Normal room temps now are ~72.
In the last 3 weeks, since things have cooled off, my Carl's has gotten
so energetic, that I have a hard time not getting large holes in my
loaves. I've been adjusting my recipe and my technique to reduce the
holiness to a reasonable level.
My conclusions are that Carl's likes to be cool.
BTW: I took temp readings all over my fridge. I found temps varied from
40 degrees to around 46 degrees. Every time I take the starter out of
the fridge, I take it's temp. It is always within those two numbers.
Here are some things that may or may not be influencing my results, but
I'll list them for whatever thoughts they may invoke.
1. Cleanliness. I've become a real nut about this. Before I touch
anything, I wash my hands. I wash all my bowls, and utensils by hand,
then run them through the dish washer. Every time, before I put dough
on any surface, I wash it.
2. Water. I use only distilled water. I have no idea what my city
water will do to the culture.
3. I try not to work the dough any more then necessary. Lately, on the
first rise, I've been only allowing it to double, earlier, I was
allowing it to triple or better.
4. Keeping the dough as wet as I can and still work it. When I form
loaves, the dough is so soft and limp that I have to use both hands to
lay it in the pan, otherwise it will droop like wet spaghetti.
5. Don't over raise the loaves. Early on, I was starting my loaves
with about a 2" diameter roll of dough in the bottom of the pan. Now I
make a roll of dough about 3 to 31/2" diameter.
6. Kick starting the starter.
A few more thoughts.
I keep a spiral bound note book in the kitchen and document each step
as I do it, each time I bake.
I bake once a week. I make either 2 or 3 loaves, depending on what is
needed.
I feed the starter up to 4 cups, then put 2 cups in a freshly washed
jar and put it back in the fridge, without letting it bubble up. It will
work just fine in the fridge and will be all frothy with some hooch on
top when I take it out the next week.
Hope I haven't confused you with all this.
Ok, here is how I kick start Carl's as recorded last week in my note
book.
1. Remove starter from fridge. 42 Deg. 07:00PM
2. Put 1 1/2 Cups water in measuring cup, heat in microwave for 45 sec.
120 Deg.
3. Slowly add water to starter while mixing with a fork. Starter is
now very thin. 80 Deg.
4. Pour starter into 4 cup measure, mix in 2 cups flour, This will make
a medium batter. 80 Deg. 07:15PM
(I've used bread flour and A/P flour here, doesn't seem to make any difference).
At this point, starter shows little activity, but will be very active
and bubbly in 1 to 1 1/2 hours.
Sponge:
1. Put starter in 8 cup measuring bowl. 79 Deg.
2. Add 1 cup water, room temp. 72 Deg.
Mix to a thin batter. 76 Deg.
3 Mix in 2 cups bread flour.
This will make a very thick batter. 76Deg.
Will now have ~4 cups of sponge. Let rise until it gets to 6 cups,
About 1 1/2 to 2 hours. 76 Deg.
Last week I went from starter to sponge in one step, instead of waiting
for starter to show activity. Total time from starter to dough was
about 4 hours, pretty much the same as when I did it in a two step
process. I did another batch this afternoon, (Friday, 11/08/02)
the same way with the same results.
I think the secret here is that thinning the starter first causes all
of the culture to be in contact with all of the water, then adding the
flour. In this way, any flour that gets wet, will be in contact with
starter culture and will give the culture faster access to fresh food.
Temperature is also an important element. Don't excede 85 degrees under
any circumstances. 80 degrees seems to be the right place to start, but
70 degrees works nearly as well.
Hope this helps in some small way.
Have fun,
Wayne
My email address: dodger at accessnode dot net
Dick Adams
"Dodger" <wayn...@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:d097a44.02110...@posting.google.com...
> ...
> My conclusions are that Carl's likes to be cool.
Charles Perry has said the same thing. He may be the world's leading
expert on Carl's starter at this point in sourdough history.
> BTW: I took temp readings all over my fridge. I found temps varied from
> 40 degrees to around 46 degrees ...
Well, I have this questions with regard to
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/waynepics/waynebread.html :
Considering the last of the four photos, was the rise shown the rise observed
when the dough loaf was removed from the fridge, or was there some
additional rising achieved at room temperature?
(The reason I ask is that I do not get nearly that much rise (with Carl's, at 42°F.,
with dough representing 3 cups flour) overnight in the fridge.) (But then again, I
am not "kick starting" my starter exactly in the same way that you propose.)
Also I would like to ask: At what point did you cut the pattern in the top of the
dough loaf?
--
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com
Dodger
> "Dodger" <wayn...@access4less.net> wrote in message
> news:d097a44.02110...@posting.google.com...
>
> > ...
>
> > My conclusions are that Carl's likes to be cool.
>
> Charles Perry has said the same thing. He may be the world's leading
> expert on Carl's starter at this point in sourdough history.
>
> > BTW: I took temp readings all over my fridge. I found temps varied
> > from 40 degrees to around 46 degrees ...
>
> Well, I have this questions with regard to
> http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/waynepics/waynebread.html :
>
> Considering the last of the four photos, was the rise shown the rise
> observed when the dough loaf was removed from the fridge, or was
> there some additional rising achieved at room temperature?
There is another photo that wasn't shown. The dough had risen just to
the top of the pan, I let it warm up and rise for another hour or so.
This was the first time that I had put the loaves in the fridge
overnight and I was supprised at how much it rose. The 2 loaves
that I baked Saturday morning, had risen to the same degree after
being in put in the fridge late Friday night.
>
> (The reason I ask is that I do not get nearly that much rise (with
> Carl's, at 42 F., with dough representing 3 cups flour) overnight in
> the fridge.) (But then again, I am not "kick starting" my starter
> exactly in the same way that you propose.)
Well, I don't have anything to directly compare to but I was getting
spotty results, until I decided to be more systematic about my baking.
Once I started keeping a step by step journal, I was able to identify
the process that was giving me the desired results.
>
> Also I would like to ask: At what point did you cut the pattern in the
> top of the dough loaf?
That was done a few minutes before taking the picture. I gave it a few
more minutes while I removed the camera and tripod, then popped it
into the oven.
BTW: That was 1 of 2 loaves. I didn't slash the other one.
I tried slashing different patterns in other loaves, but decided it
wasn't important so have stopped doing it.
Wayne
email: dodger at accessnode dot net