NBC EXPOSED BENNY HINN
Pastor Frank
> news:aumorv$idl$1...@news.x-echo.com...
> > On December 27, Dateline NBC for two hours presented
> > an investigative report on Benny Hinn Ministries.
> > Concerning the supposed healing power of Benny Hinn,
> > the case of Belva Ventura and her son who were both
> > suffering of Cancer was presented. The son died
> > shortly after Benny Hinn in Worcester, Massachusetts
> > in front of 14,000 believers declared that he and his
> > mother were healed. One month after the last Interview
> > with NBC, Belva Ventura who truly believed she was
> > healed by Benny Hinn also died of Cancer.
> >
> > During the interview of late Belva Ventura, she
> > explained how on stage Benny Hinn hugged her and her
> > son. She recalled how Benny Hinn put his arm around her.
> > Unblushingly, Benny Hinn in the name of Jesus Christ
> > gave to Belva and her son the assurance they were healed
> > of cancer, even though he was fully aware they would soon
> > die. The poor lady and her son did not understand at all
> > that the hugs of Benny Hinn were just to provide his
> > Camera Crew of a touching scene for his Broadcast on TBN.
> > Only God knows during all these years of Miracle healing
> > Crusades the incalculable Number of believers who went
> > home to die after Benny Hinn publicly testified in the
> > name of Jesus Christ they were healed.
> >
> > I am addressing the devoted followers of Benny Hinn, what
> > prevented your Prophet from knowing that NBC was sending
> > reporters with hidden Cameras to his crusades? Benny Hinn
> > must be a blind Prophet, he could not even see all these
> > cameras few feet from his anointed nose. If only Benny Hinn
> > could have known in advance that NBC was investigating his
> > healing power, he would have never pronounced that both Belva
> > Ventura and her son were healed of cancer. Personally I will
> > never understand how the Christian Community can still
> > allow Benny Hinn with a false promise of a miracle to deprive
> > desperate and suffering people of large sum of money in the
> > name of Jesus Christ?
> >
Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
condition.
You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
--
Pastor Frank
Jn:11:25: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
[snipt]
> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
>to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
>but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
>killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>condition.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
>hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>--
>Pastor Frank
Trolling, trolling...........
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
[snippage]
> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
>to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
>but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
>killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>condition.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
>hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>--
>Pastor Frank
>
>Jn:11:25: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
>believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
>
Here's an exposee of Pastor Frank, Liar and hypocrite extroadinaire:
> What is "mythology" in the below?
>--
>Pastor Frank
>
>THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
>Jesus in Matthew. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye
>for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
>39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
>thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
>40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let
>him have thy cloke also.
>41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
>42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
>turn not thou away.
OK, Frank - I'm asking you to give me a thousand dollars, and lend me
your car. If you don't, then I guess that makes it "myth" don't it!
Alan Hobson
> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
> to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
> but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
> killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> condition.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
False hope is what is given. Benny's no different from John Edwards
except that Crossing Over runs a discalimer at the beginning of the
broadcast saying that it's for etertainment purposes only. He's a
vampire that takes advantage of people's weakness in order to make
himself rich.
Not all of these people are terminally ill. What if Benny told a
person with diabetes that he is cured and he stopped taking his
insulin and therefore went blind or lost his foot? In this case Mr.
Hinn is directly causing the person harm.
-Alan
aa#1608
BTW have you answered any of these questions yet?
************
Some questions that Pastor Frank refuses to answer:
1) Who was Jesus trying to appease with his "sacrifice"?
2) Do you believe that there was a god before Jesus made his
appearance 2000 years ago?
3) Was this the god of the OT?
4) Who is this "Father" that Jesus continually talks about?
5) Were Jesus and his disciples Jewish and did they believe the OT was
true?
6) What is your definition of a soul?
*************
Questions Pastor Frank is unable to answer
1) How is dying a mortal death a sacrifice for an immortal god?
Mr. Vega
Doesn't look like it heals to me.
Jesus was quite specific in the Bible about how anyone with even "the
smallest bit of faith like a mustard seed" can work miracles,
including walking on water, healing the sick, cursing fig trees,
moving mountains, flying, handling poisonous snakes, quitting your job
and living by faith alone, and even raising the dead. These are
testable claims. Anyone who believes in him can try to do this stuff.
If it doesn't work it doesn't work, and the guy is fulla crap. And if
Jesus lied about this stuff, then how can you trust him about stuff
that's supposed to happen after you die?
Benny Hinn isn't supposed to be "giving hope" --he's supposed to be
healing, but apparently the Jesus magic doesn't work, as this example
demonstrates.
Jack
Tim McGaughy
Bullshit. If he truly wanted to give them hope, he could toe the
standard christian line that they would live forever in Heaven.
The only reason he doesn't is that There's No Money In It.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
You obviously prefer that people spend all their money on a scam, rather
than leaving it to their survivors who will have to pick up the
emotional and financial pieces when they are gone.
You also seem to prefer people spend the last few seconds of their lives
in the confused realization that they have been lied to by someone
they trusted.
You are an ass.
Ginger Eakle
His people tell the people that he says that they are healed to check with
their doctors to find out if it's really true that they are healed.
"Alan Hobson" <al...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:d1d6cbe3.0212...@posting.google.com...
Saint Dude
<virtu...@innocent.com> wrote:
>In article <d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com>, Mr. Vega
><je...@gtn.net> wrote:
>
>> Jesus was quite specific in the Bible about how anyone with even "the
>> smallest bit of faith like a mustard seed" can work miracles,
>> including walking on water, healing the sick, cursing fig trees,
>> moving mountains, flying, handling poisonous snakes, quitting your job
>> and living by faith alone, and even raising the dead. These are
>> testable claims. Anyone who believes in him can try to do this stuff.
>> If it doesn't work it doesn't work, and the guy is fulla crap. And if
>> Jesus lied about this stuff, then how can you trust him about stuff
>> that's supposed to happen after you die?
>
>You're making the basic, classic mistake of attempting to craft an
>entire case out of only isolated, select items rather than the whole.
You're making the basic, classic mistake of being unable to see the
trees for the forest.
Rockpyle
> to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
> but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
> killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> condition.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
Why do you bother to defend Benny Hinn? He's proven himself to be a
false prophet time and time again. I find it amazing that so many
people follow him considering most of his prophecies do not come to
pass. Not only that but he prophecied that Jesus was going to appear
on stage with him in physical form. Such unscriptual heresy! Jesus
Christ warns us about such people in Matthew 7:15.
Just like you said Benny gives hope to people, and I don't think
that's good. Why? Because people are putting their hope on a false
prophet. You are a self-proclaimed pastor. Do you think it's good
for people to put their hopes in a false prophet, regardless of the
signs and wonders?
Alan A. Hobson
<virgin...@peoplepc.com> pontificated:
>I read the article on the newsite about the NBC show about Benny Hinn.
>His people tell the people that he says that they are healed to check with
>their doctors to find out if it's really true that they are healed.
But he also says that the healing can be reversed if they don't have
enough faith. So, if they go to their doctors, they may feel that
they are "doublting god" and their healing will be undone.
Quote from article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/845747.asp
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Benny Hinn says it’s possible for someone to be healed at one of
his crusades only to have the illness or injury return later. Here’s
how he explains it:
Benny Hinn: "This is your Day Vegas... My Friend, hear this
well. The reason people lose their healing, is because they begin
questioning if God really did it."
That, says Ole Anthony, only makes matters even worse for those
who are desperately ill.
"Now they’re twice as bad off as they were before because now,
according to Benny, they’ve done something wrong," says Anthony.
------------------------------------------------------------------
-Alan
aa#1608
aa#1608
John Hattan
>In article <d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com>, Mr. Vega
><je...@gtn.net> wrote:
>
>> Jesus was quite specific in the Bible about how anyone with even "the
>> smallest bit of faith like a mustard seed" can work miracles,
>> including walking on water, healing the sick, cursing fig trees,
>> moving mountains, flying, handling poisonous snakes, quitting your job
>> and living by faith alone, and even raising the dead. These are
>> testable claims. Anyone who believes in him can try to do this stuff.
>> If it doesn't work it doesn't work, and the guy is fulla crap. And if
>> Jesus lied about this stuff, then how can you trust him about stuff
>> that's supposed to happen after you die?
>
>You're making the basic, classic mistake of attempting to craft an
>entire case out of only isolated, select items rather than the whole.
That's right. Just because Uri Geller has been caught on camera bending
spoons manually, then showing them off as done by psychic powers doesn't
mean that he's always a fake. He was probably just tired that day.
Ditto for Peter Popoff. Just because he was caught receiving his Holy
Spirit Messages via radio from his wife doesn't mean that he's a
charlatan. He just uses the radio as a backup when the Sacred Spook is
in the can!
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
jo...@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
Pastor Frank
news:<10413346...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> >
> > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
hope
> > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
lose
> > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
is a
> > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> > condition.
> > You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather
than
> > hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>
> False hope is what is given.
Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
atheists can't understand. What is the percentage of permanent faith
healings? If you had exhausted all available alternatives would you take a
chance on less that 1%? I would and so would most people. Faint hope, but
hope nevertheless.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7: If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8: Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the
words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11: Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else
believe me for the very works' sake.
Pastor Frank
news:d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com...
Are you saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
percent? Have you any proof of that? But statistically a substantial number
of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
faith. If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%? I would and so would
most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far larger
healing rate than 1%.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7: If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8: Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the
words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11: Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else
believe me for the very works' sake.
Pastor Frank
news:3E11FE70...@ispwest.com...
> Pastor Frank wrote:
> >
> > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
hope
> > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
lose
> > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
is a
> > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> > condition.
>
> Bullshit. If he truly wanted to give them hope, he could toe the
> standard christian line that they would live forever in Heaven.
>
live a little longer. Anything wrong with that?
> The only reason he doesn't is that There's No Money In It.
>
How much do you do where there is "no money in it"? Nobody is forced to
give Benny Hinn any money. He only receives donations and gifts. Which is
the opposite from our commercial interests who charge you for their
advertising and lousy TV shows they sponsor, by inflating the price of their
merchandise you need to buy to live. I don't hear you compaining about them.
> > You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather
than
> > hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>
> You obviously prefer that people spend all their money on a scam, rather
> than leaving it to their survivors who will have to pick up the
> emotional and financial pieces when they are gone.
>
Looks like you parents spent your inheritance instead of leaving it to
you. LOL
> You also seem to prefer people spend the last few seconds of their lives
> in the confused realization that they have been lied to by someone
> they trusted.
>
Quite the opposite is true, for the person knows he has done everything
expected of him and yet he is dying, which can only mean one thing, the Lord
wants him home. A comforting thought in itself.
Pastor Frank
news:47405b7e.02123...@posting.google.com...
to be disappointed. I am sure Benny Hinn doesn't go around saying: Have
faith in me, for I heal people. Not even Christ did that. He always
emphasized, that it was one's own faith which healed a person.
I think you are just a negative thinker, who likes to find fault and
dwell on it exclusively. It's the activity of those in the "outer darkness"
of hell where there is "wailing" of interminable complaints, screeching of
accusations and curses, as well as "gnashing of teeth" in utter frustration,
fear and fury.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:25:30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Rom. 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
[....]
>> False hope is what is given.
>
> Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
>atheists can't understand.
Yeah, it is difficult to understand why people willingly get conned,
duped, and defrauded. But that's what keeps scum like you and Hinn in
business, eh!
>What is the percentage of permanent faith healings?
Zero.
> If you had exhausted all available alternatives would you take a
>chance on less that 1%?
Only an idiot would take a chance on ZERO. Better spenmd you time
putting you affairs in order for the inevitable.
> I would and so would most people. Faint hope, but
>hope nevertheless.
Since it would be your last, desperate hope, instead of your first,
obviously you don't beleive your own bullshit!
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
>"Tim McGaughy" <tee...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
>news:3E11FE70...@ispwest.com...
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >
>> > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
>hope
>> > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
>lose
>> > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
>is a
>> > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>> > condition.
>>
>> Bullshit. If he truly wanted to give them hope, he could toe the
>> standard christian line that they would live forever in Heaven.
>>
> "Bullshit" yourself. They already have that hope, they just would like t
>live a little longer. Anything wrong with that?
>
Makes no sense - why would you want to extend your pain and suffering
when you can escape to eternal bliss?
Saint Dude
>"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<10413346...@arakis.wincom.net>...
>> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
>> to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
>> but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
>> killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>> condition.
>> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
>> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>
>Why do you bother to defend Benny Hinn? He's proven himself to be a
>false prophet time and time again. I find it amazing that so many
>people follow him considering most of his prophecies do not come to
>pass. Not only that but he prophecied that Jesus was going to appear
>on stage with him in physical form. Such unscriptual heresy!
Oh, but Jesus DID appear with him - you just couldn't see it
becaue you didn't believe. GUFFAW!
Alan Hobson
<snip>
> Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
> atheists can't understand.
We all know that you're a real expert on what people think, Frank.
Wasn't it you who said that normal teenage boys don't think about sex?
I wonder how many people Benny has "healed" later renounced their
belief in god when they found out they had been lied to? In that
case, Hinn has caused a xian who would have died a believer and
supposedly gone to heaven to spend eternity in hell.
-Alan
aa#1608
John M Collins
>(snip) ...saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
>percent? Have you any proof of that? But statistically a substantial number
>of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
>faith. If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
>Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%? I would and so would
>most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far larger
>healing rate than 1%.
>
Yes and the placebo effect works without extracting all the patient's
last cash and spinning a line about imaginary gods who let the thing
happen in the first place.
--
John Collins www.john.collins.name #1639
Pastor Frank
news:3E12B357...@xisl.com...
criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant fees as
doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing show
is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
appearing on his stage.
Furthermore, free placebos are unlikely to have a high success rate.
Like I said, it all rests on faith, and faith seldom comes cheap. His show
runs on free-will donations, and you pay only what you think it's worth. No
more.
As far as God allowing things to happen, if there were no challenges, no
comedy nor tragedy in your life, you would die from boredom. The Lord
promises us, that we will only experience what we can handle, nothing that
will push us over the edge.
Also. our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know our God exists, for
we find love everywhere we look. You don't look for it, and that is why God
doesn't exist for you.
--
Pastor Frank
GOD
Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth.
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God
is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> >
> > atheists can't understand.
>
> We all know that you're a real expert on what people think, Frank.
> Wasn't it you who said that normal teenage boys don't think about sex?
>
that this was about a homosexual child about to kiil himself for not getting
what he wanted. Few teens put sex THAT high on their list of priorities.
> I wonder how many people Benny has "healed" later renounced their
> belief in god when they found out they had been lied to? In that
> case, Hinn has caused a xian who would have died a believer and
> supposedly gone to heaven to spend eternity in hell.
>
You haven't got a clue Al. Those not healed know, they lack the faith to
be healed. Most of us would, being surrounded by sneering sceptics like you.
--
Pastor Frank
THE MINIONS OF SATAN
Jesus in John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in
the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he
speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mt:12:34: O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?
for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mt:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth
good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil
things.
Alan Hobson
> "Alan Hobson" <al...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:d1d6cbe3.03010...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > >
> > > Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
> > > atheists can't understand.
> >
> > We all know that you're a real expert on what people think, Frank.
> > Wasn't it you who said that normal teenage boys don't think about sex?
> >
> You sure are a bit of a disgusting slime-ball aren't you, Al? You know
> that this was about a homosexual child about to kiil himself for not getting
> what he wanted. Few teens put sex THAT high on their list of priorities.
>
This from a person who says it's good to lie to sick people and take
their money.
> > I wonder how many people Benny has "healed" later renounced their
> > belief in god when they found out they had been lied to? In that
> > case, Hinn has caused a xian who would have died a believer and
> > supposedly gone to heaven to spend eternity in hell.
> >
> You haven't got a clue Al. Those not healed know, they lack the faith to
> be healed. Most of us would, being surrounded by sneering sceptics like you.
> --
Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
sceptics? Somehow, even with all of their faith, they manage to get
sick and die too.
Tim McGaughy
> "Tim McGaughy" <tee...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
> news:3E11FE70...@ispwest.com...
>
>>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>
>>> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
>>
> hope
>
>>>to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
>>
> lose
>
>>>but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
>>
> is a
>
>>>killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>>>condition.
>>
>>Bullshit. If he truly wanted to give them hope, he could toe the
>>standard christian line that they would live forever in Heaven.
>>
>
> "Bullshit" yourself. They already have that hope, they just would like t
> live a little longer. Anything wrong with that?
No. But then, I never said there was.
Hinn is not about giving hope. He is about making money, and he makes
promises he cannot keep to get it.
>>The only reason he doesn't is that There's No Money In It.
>>
>
> How much do you do where there is "no money in it"? Nobody is forced to
I do quite a bit, actually. It's called volunteer work, and it does not pay.
> give Benny Hinn any money. He only receives donations and gifts. Which is
Those donations are given because of what he says he can do, and they
ARE heavily encouraged. And yet, he cannot deliver what he promises.
> the opposite from our commercial interests who charge you for their
> advertising and lousy TV shows they sponsor, by inflating the price of their
> merchandise you need to buy to live. I don't hear you compaining about them.
I don't hear you making a point.
Do people die of afflictions after he's pronounced them cured, yes or no?
Why would he lie about a cure, rather than assuring them they would soon
rest in Heaven? You seriously don't think it's to make himself look
good? Why pretend to have powers he does not have?
>>> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather
>>
> than
>
>>>hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>>
>>You obviously prefer that people spend all their money on a scam, rather
>>than leaving it to their survivors who will have to pick up the
>>emotional and financial pieces when they are gone.
>>
>
> Looks like you parents spent your inheritance instead of leaving it to
> you. LOL
My parents are alive, you idiot. LOL
>>You also seem to prefer people spend the last few seconds of their lives
>> in the confused realization that they have been lied to by someone
>>they trusted.
>>
>
> Quite the opposite is true, for the person knows he has done everything
> expected of him and yet he is dying, which can only mean one thing, the Lord
> wants him home. A comforting thought in itself.
Bullshit. If they were comfortable with dying, they wouldn't have gone
to Benny Hinn to be healed.
Tim McGaughy
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<10413346...@arakis.wincom.net>...
>
>> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
>>to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
>>but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
>>killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
>>condition.
>> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
>>hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>
>
> Why do you bother to defend Benny Hinn? He's proven himself to be a
Pastor Frank probably IS Benny Hinn.
Tim McGaughy
> Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
Kewl.
Hey, Frankie. You give me 5,000 dollars, and I'll guarantee that you'll
live happily ever after.
You'll even be able to stop taking your meds.
Gonna take me up on it?
Tim McGaughy
> "Alan Hobson" <al...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:d1d6cbe3.03010...@posting.google.com...
>
>>"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
> news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
>
>>> Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
>>>atheists can't understand.
>>
>>We all know that you're a real expert on what people think, Frank.
>>Wasn't it you who said that normal teenage boys don't think about sex?
>>
>
> You sure are a bit of a disgusting slime-ball aren't you, Al? You know
> that this was about a homosexual child about to kiil himself for not getting
> what he wanted. Few teens put sex THAT high on their list of priorities.
You are so perceptive.
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
>"John M Collins" <j...@xisl.com> wrote in message
>news:3E12B357...@xisl.com...
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >
>> >(snip) ...saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
>> >percent? Have you any proof of that? But statistically a substantial
>number
>> >of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
>> >faith. If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
>> >Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%? I would and so
>would
>> >most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far
>larger
>> >healing rate than 1%.
>>
>> Yes and the placebo effect works without extracting all the patient's
>> last cash and spinning a line about imaginary gods who let the thing
>> happen in the first place.
>>
> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John. Benny Hinn isn't stupid or
>criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant fees as
>doctors do.
What's the average "on stage" time for Hinn's dupes? What's the
average "donation"? Wanna figure Hinn's "hourly" rate?
The Black wrestler "healed" of a (non-existant) heart problem paid
Hinn $235,000 according to the NBC report. You don't consider that
exhorbitant for having someone pray a few words over you, push you in
the forehead so you fall down, and pronounce you "healed"? How bypass
surgeries coyuld you have for $235,000?
Are you looney, a troll, or just expressing your contempt?
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
>"John M Collins" <j...@xisl.com> wrote in message
>news:3E12B357...@xisl.com...
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >
>> >(snip) ...saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
>> >percent? Have you any proof of that? But statistically a substantial
>number
>> >of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
>> >faith. If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
>> >Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%? I would and so
>would
>> >most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far
>larger
>> >healing rate than 1%.
>>
>> Yes and the placebo effect works without extracting all the patient's
>> last cash and spinning a line about imaginary gods who let the thing
>> happen in the first place.
>>
> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John. Benny Hinn isn't stupid or
>criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant fees as
>doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing show
>is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
>appearing on his stage.
Since he is also officially tax exempt as a religious charity, then
he's a fraud, because an entertainment travelling sideshow hardly
qualifies as a tax exempt charity, does it dickhead?
Are you really this stupid, a troll, or just expressing your contempt?
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> As far as God allowing things to happen, if there were no challenges, no
>comedy nor tragedy in your life, you would die from boredom.
I guess everyone in heaven is going to die from boredom then, eh! You
better talk to Keith!
Saint Dude
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John. Benny Hinn isn't stupid or
>criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant fees as
>doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing show
>is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
>appearing on his stage.
[....]
>--
>Pastor Frank
Just WHERE, exactly, is it listed "officially" that Hinn's faith
healing show is "For entertainment only" ???????
I think you've been overdosing on late nite TV psychics shows.
Pastor Frank
> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
> sceptics?
YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
you don't look it.
Somehow, even with all of their faith, they manage to get
> sick and die too.
> -Alan
> aa#1608
>
That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are healed
through faith, be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor, their
minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
--
Pastor Frank
THE GOLDEN RULE
Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
31: And the second is alike, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Alan A. Hobson
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>>
>> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
>> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
>> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
>> sceptics?
>
> YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
>you don't look it.
>
Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
if I don't believe as they do.
> Somehow, even with all of their faith, they manage to get
>> sick and die too.
>> -Alan
>> aa#1608
>>
> That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are healed
>through faith, be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor, their
>minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
However, pills, doctors and procedures generally have a *lot* more
going for them than just faith. Medicine can cure you even if you
don't believe in it. I'd be willing to bet that all of Benny Hinn's
prayers have not healed *one* person.
-Alan
aa#1608
************
Some questions that Pastor Frank refuses to answer:
1) Who was Jesus trying to appease with his "sacrifice"?
2) Do you believe that there was a god before Jesus made his
appearance 2000 years ago?
3) Was this the god of the OT?
4) Who is this "Father" that Jesus continually talks about?
5) Were Jesus and his disciples Jewish and did they believe the OT was
true?
6) What is your definition of a soul?
*************
Questions Pastor Frank is unable to answer
1) How is dying a mortal death a sacrifice for an immortal god?
aa#1608
Pastor Frank
news:6t5a1vsldq1qi3fel...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:55 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>
> >> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
> >> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
> >> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
> >> sceptics?
> >
> > YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
> >you don't look it.
>
> Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
> with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
> fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
> IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
> beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
> if I don't believe as they do.
>
lifting your self-esteem. Unfortunately it won't last, and soon you will
have to again hand out downers, and trash other people's beliefs to make you
feel a somebody. That's the curse of atheism.
> >
> > That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are
healed
> >through faith, be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor,
their
> >minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
>
> However, pills, doctors and procedures generally have a *lot* more
> going for them than just faith. Medicine can cure you even if you
> don't believe in it. I'd be willing to bet that all of Benny Hinn's
> prayers have not healed *one* person.
> -Alan
> aa#1608
>
cure rate. I have heard doctors say, that the majority of patients in their
waiting rooms come to have their psychosomatic illnesses treated, in fact
most are hypochondriacs. These are ideal patients for faith healing.
Angelico
Tim McGaughy tapped on my shoulder and told me:
That's a new perspective on Frankie's stubborn lying...
--
Angel Arnal, Valencia, España aa #1443 BAAWA knave | ULC Ord. Minister
http://angelico.iespana.es maky m. #(sqrt(5)-1)/2
Apatriont #16
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up | Official EAC Latin Lover
Angelico
Rockpyle tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<10413346...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
> > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
> > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
> > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> > condition.
> > You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> > hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
>
> Why do you bother to defend Benny Hinn?
Because he's on the same Liar League.
> He's proven himself to be a
> false prophet time and time again. I find it amazing that so many
> people follow him considering most of his prophecies do not come to
> pass. Not only that but he prophecied that Jesus was going to appear
> on stage with him in physical form. Such unscriptual heresy! Jesus
> Christ warns us about such people in Matthew 7:15.
>
> Just like you said Benny gives hope to people, and I don't think
> that's good. Why? Because people are putting their hope on a false
> prophet. You are a self-proclaimed pastor. Do you think it's good
> for people to put their hopes in a false prophet, regardless of the
> signs and wonders?
Isn't that leaning on false prophets *specifically* forbidden in the
Bible?
Angelico
Virtualoso tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> In article <d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com>, Mr. Vega
> <je...@gtn.net> wrote:
>
> > Jesus was quite specific in the Bible about how anyone with even "the
> > smallest bit of faith like a mustard seed" can work miracles,
> > including walking on water, healing the sick, cursing fig trees,
> > moving mountains, flying, handling poisonous snakes, quitting your job
> > and living by faith alone, and even raising the dead. These are
> > testable claims. Anyone who believes in him can try to do this stuff.
> > If it doesn't work it doesn't work, and the guy is fulla crap. And if
> > Jesus lied about this stuff, then how can you trust him about stuff
> > that's supposed to happen after you die?
>
> You're making the basic, classic mistake of attempting to craft an
> entire case out of only isolated, select items rather than the whole.
And you're making the basic lie of denying what's written in your own
holey book. In few words: put up or shut up.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
Gives? He does not give you even a "good morning," he sells it all and
at a high price. The name of his game is "bulk money."
> to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
> but everything to gain,
Wrong, they're going to die anyway and they'll lose a good deal of
their possessions to a con man.
> for hope and faith heals,
Hope and faith may console, but not heal. Medicine, that's science,
heals.
> whereas hopelessness is a
> killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> condition.
So you admit he's just a con man who takes their money and gives them
nothing useful, because they're going to die anyway. Do you find that
moral?
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
We obviously prefer truth to pious or well-intended lies, and of
course we prefer truth to the greed of an exposed con man. If you're
not strong enough to stand in the light of truth, well, then take
religion.
Angelico
A. Hobson tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:55 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>
>
> >>
> >> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
> >> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
> >> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
> >> sceptics?
> >
> > YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
> >you don't look it.
> >
>
> Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
> with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
> fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
> IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
> beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
> if I don't believe as they do.
Bad, bad atheist. You've just burst Frankie's beautiful bubble. An
atheist saying something positive! That's not done!
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
Have you ever been there to see that he sneers at them? Is their faith
so weak that a single person's sneering can ruin its works?
> Somehow, even with all of their faith, they manage to get
> > sick and die too.
> > -Alan
> > aa#1608
> >
> That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are healed
> through faith,
Nobody.
> be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor, their
> minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
You can be healed by the doctor's knowledge and careful work, but not
for your faith in him/her.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
> news:d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com...
[snip]
> > Doesn't look like it heals to me.
>
> Are you saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
> percent?
I don't know about him, but I do say that. Show your numbers if I'm
wrong.
> Have you any proof of that?
No need, who has to produce proof of the healings is the one who says
he can heal. No numbers, no healing.
> But statistically a substantial number
> of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
> faith.
Cancer does not appear on that list, I can assure you.
> If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
> Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%?
No. He's been exposed as a charlatan.
> I would and so would
> most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far larger
> healing rate than 1%.
It does, when treating psychosomatic illnesses. Try it on something as
simple as a caries, not to say a cancer, a broken spine, or an
emphysema.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Alan Hobson" <al...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:d1d6cbe3.03010...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > >
> > > Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
> > > atheists can't understand.
> >
> > We all know that you're a real expert on what people think, Frank.
> > Wasn't it you who said that normal teenage boys don't think about sex?
> >
> You sure are a bit of a disgusting slime-ball aren't you, Al?
I don't think so. Can't stand for your own words?
> You know
> that this was about a homosexual child about to kiil himself for not getting
> what he wanted. Few teens put sex THAT high on their list of priorities.
That's not what you wrote.
> > I wonder how many people Benny has "healed" later renounced their
> > belief in god when they found out they had been lied to? In that
> > case, Hinn has caused a xian who would have died a believer and
> > supposedly gone to heaven to spend eternity in hell.
> >
> You haven't got a clue Al.
pot-kettle-black
> Those not healed know, they lack the faith to
> be healed.
<snort>
> Most of us would, being surrounded by sneering sceptics like you.
Is your faith so weak?
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Tim McGaughy" <tee...@ispwest.com> wrote in message
> news:3E11FE70...@ispwest.com...
> > Pastor Frank wrote:
> > >
> > > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
> hope
> > > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
> lose
> > > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
> is a
> > > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> > > condition.
> >
> > Bullshit. If he truly wanted to give them hope, he could toe the
> > standard christian line that they would live forever in Heaven.
> >
> "Bullshit" yourself. They already have that hope, they just would like t
> live a little longer. Anything wrong with that?
Everything wrong with that. Why? Because, if what's on "the other
side" is total bliss, they should be eager to abandon their sorry
condition, if everything is god's will, their attempt to remain a bit
longer is countering that will, and finally, it simply DOES NOT WORK
and costs them a lot of money. They aren't going to die later but are
leaving their family poorer.
> > The only reason he doesn't is that There's No Money In It.
> >
> How much do you do where there is "no money in it"?
In my case, a lot of things. Except getting up every morning to go to
work, everything I do has "no money in it."
> Nobody is forced to
> give Benny Hinn any money.
But they are given the message that their only hope is to give him as
much money as they can. That's a scam, pure and simple.
> He only receives donations and gifts.
...which he has done nothing to deserve.
> Which is
> the opposite from our commercial interests who charge you for their
> advertising and lousy TV shows they sponsor, by inflating the price of their
> merchandise you need to buy to live. I don't hear you compaining about them.
When I buy one of those products, I get something tangible and real.
Even if my expectations are not fulfilled, I have something I can
touch and see. And there's a way to claim my money back if what I
bought is crap. Hinn's pockets are black holes.
> > > You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather
> than
> > > hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
> >
> > You obviously prefer that people spend all their money on a scam, rather
> > than leaving it to their survivors who will have to pick up the
> > emotional and financial pieces when they are gone.
> >
> Looks like you parents spent your inheritance instead of leaving it to
> you. LOL
What makes you think his parents died?
> > You also seem to prefer people spend the last few seconds of their lives
> > in the confused realization that they have been lied to by someone
> > they trusted.
> >
> Quite the opposite is true, for the person knows he has done everything
> expected of him and yet he is dying, which can only mean one thing, the Lord
> wants him home. A comforting thought in itself.
See above.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Alan Hobson" <al...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:d1d6cbe3.0212...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:<10413346...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > >
> > > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
> hope
> > > to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to
> lose
> > > but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness
> is a
> > > killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> > > condition.
> > > You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather
> than
> > > hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
> >
> > False hope is what is given.
>
> Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
> atheists can't understand. What is the percentage of permanent faith
> healings?
0.00%
> If you had exhausted all available alternatives would you take a
> chance on less that 1%?
Only if it didn't involve lying to myself.
> I would and so would most people. Faint hope, but
^^^^^
> hope nevertheless.
You misspelled "false," even though you had an example a few lines
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "John M Collins" <j...@xisl.com> wrote in message
> news:3E12B357...@xisl.com...
> > Pastor Frank wrote:
> > >
> > >(snip) ...saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
> > >percent? Have you any proof of that? But statistically a substantial
> number
> > >of conditions are healed by the placebo effect, which is based solely on
> > >faith. If you had exhausted all alternatives would you take a chance on
> > >Benny Hinn, even if his success rate is less than 1%? I would and so
> would
> > >most people. One thing is for certain, the placebo effect has a far
> larger
> > >healing rate than 1%.
> >
> > Yes and the placebo effect works without extracting all the patient's
> > last cash and spinning a line about imaginary gods who let the thing
> > happen in the first place.
> >
> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John.
ROTFLMAO!
> Benny Hinn isn't stupid or
> criminal,
The first I can agree with, but he's a criminal. Ethically, if not
legally.
> practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant fees as
> doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing show
> is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
> appearing on his stage.
You mean those pretending to be healed?
> Furthermore, free placebos are unlikely to have a high success rate.
Do you get a share from Benny's income?
> Like I said, it all rests on faith, and faith seldom comes cheap.
We already know how religion works, thank you. Stop giving more ammo
to Crazyalec.
> His show
> runs on free-will donations, and you pay only what you think it's worth. No
> more.
> As far as God allowing things to happen, if there were no challenges, no
> comedy nor tragedy in your life, you would die from boredom. The Lord
> promises us, that we will only experience what we can handle, nothing that
> will push us over the edge.
Huh? That's why "suicide" is a mythical concept?
> Also. our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and we know our God exists, for
> we find love everywhere we look. You don't look for it, and that is why God
> doesn't exist for you.
If it existed, nobody should look for it. It would be self evident and
undeniable.
Karen
--
Blessed by God through his Son Jesus Christ
Karen
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow!!
"© <:o) Dr. Watson (it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
<spam...@begone.invalid> wrote in message
news:ajib1vcan2ffv5m96...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:25:16 GMT, jdb999inv...@coldmail.com
> (Saint Dude) done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little
> old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>
> >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:36:24 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> ><fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John. Benny Hinn isn't stupid
or
> >>criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant
fees as
> >>doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing
show
> >>is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
> >>appearing on his stage.
> >[....]
> >>--
>
> He has bee exposed long ago for paying many to appear as 'ill people'
> for him to 'cure'..
>
> The pomp and parade as he struts across the stage, hissing, making
> false claims such as "Jesus will be standing right beside me on this
> stage" ..... and faking 'glossolalia' is enough to woefully turn ANY
> well-behaved stomach.
>
> >>Pastor Frank
> >
> >Just WHERE, exactly, is it listed "officially" that Hinn's faith
> >healing show is "For entertainment only" ???????
> >
> >I think you've been overdosing on late nite TV psychics shows.
> >
> I think it should be, personally.
> It's good for a laugh if nothing else.
>
>
>
> ============================================
> > >Do radioactive cats have 18 half-lives?< <
> //\\//\\//\\ do...@eudoramail.com //\\//\\//\\
> ============================================
Alan A. Hobson
pontificated:
>On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:22:55 GMT, while wandering by alt.atheism, Alan
>A. Hobson tapped on my shoulder and told me:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:55 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
>> >> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
>> >> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
>> >> sceptics?
>> >
>> > YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
>> >you don't look it.
>> >
>>
>> Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
>> with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
>> fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
>> IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
>> beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
>> if I don't believe as they do.
>
>Bad, bad atheist. You've just burst Frankie's beautiful bubble. An
>atheist saying something positive! That's not done!
Oops! Does that mean that I have to turn in my EAC secret decoder
ring? (which,of course, doesn't exist)
-Alan
aa#1608
Alan A. Hobson
<fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>"Alan A. Hobson" <ahobson@indy_DOT_rr.com> wrote in message
>news:6t5a1vsldq1qi3fel...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:55 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>>
>> >> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
>> >> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
>> >> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
>> >> sceptics?
>> >
>> > YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
>> >you don't look it.
>>
>> Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
>> with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
>> fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
>> IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
>> beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
>> if I don't believe as they do.
>>
> Wow, how generous of you. That should be stroking your ego for a bit,
>lifting your self-esteem. Unfortunately it won't last, and soon you will
>have to again hand out downers, and trash other people's beliefs to make you
>feel a somebody. That's the curse of atheism.
Sorry Frank, but you're wrong again. I will argue with the people
who, like yourself, try to ram their superstitions down my throat.
In real life, I try to respect the rights of others to have beliefs
different from mine. I draw the line when these beliefs cause harm
and take advantage of others.
>> >
>> > That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are
>healed
>> >through faith, be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor,
>their
>> >minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
>>
>> However, pills, doctors and procedures generally have a *lot* more
>> going for them than just faith. Medicine can cure you even if you
>> don't believe in it. I'd be willing to bet that all of Benny Hinn's
>> prayers have not healed *one* person.
>> -Alan
>> aa#1608
>>
> You would lose that bet, Al. The placebo effect has a suprisingly high
>cure rate. I have heard doctors say, that the majority of patients in their
>waiting rooms come to have their psychosomatic illnesses treated, in fact
>most are hypochondriacs. These are ideal patients for faith healing.
So IOW you're saying that Hinn is curing people who aren't sick in the
first place and then you're calling it a miracle?
Whoop-de-friggin-do. Pretty lame healing, if you ask me.
There has been at least one recent study that appears to show that the
placebo effect does not work as well as previoulsly thought and may,
in fact, not really exist.
-Alan
Pastor Frank
news:av43n9$bittg$1...@ID-90593.news.dfncis.de...
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:41:27 +0800, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> >
> > atheists can't understand. What is the percentage of permanent faith
> > healings?
>
> 0.00%
>
psychosomatic illnesses, and which can certainly best be cured by faith
healing.
You are such a stumble-bum ignoramus, always shooting from the hip
without making a study of the subject beforehand. Read up on Placebo Effect
and correct your "0.00%" success rate.
--
Pastor Frank
Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
Pastor Frank
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:01:49 +0800, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> >
hope
>
> Gives? He does not give you even a "good morning," he sells it all and
> at a high price. The name of his game is "bulk money."
>
all the same, one says those on the Benny Hinn stage are paid actors, the
other one says they pay large sums of money to get on that stage. None
presents any evidence one way or the other.
There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing without
presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
BTR1701
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing without
> presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
Got any evidence for that? Or are you possessed by Satan?
Pastor Frank
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:52:21 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
> >
> >lifting your self-esteem. Unfortunately it won't last, and soon you will
> >have to again hand out downers, and trash other people's beliefs to make
you
> >feel a somebody. That's the curse of atheism.
>
> Sorry Frank, but you're wrong again.
Of course, when was the last time you agreed with a theist?
I will argue with the people
> who, like yourself, try to ram their superstitions down my throat.
You don't care to be a bigot first class, do you? For apart from
Christians, you allow all others to advertise their convictions, without
complaints. Like the homosexuals on parade answered our objections: If you
don't like it, don't look. I'm telling you to stop reading Christian posts
Al. But I bet you won't.
> In real life, I try to respect the rights of others to have beliefs
> different from mine. I draw the line when these beliefs cause harm
> and take advantage of others.
>
Ahhw chucks Al, did the Salvation Army lady at the Mall, try to weedle
money out of you again? You better write to your congress man, and have a
law passed. Or do you just want us to feel sorry for you?
--
Pastor Frank
SONS OF GOD
Jn:1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of
God.
Rom:8:19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the
manifestation of the sons of God.
Phil:2:15: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without
rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine
as lights in the world;
1Jn:3:1: Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that
we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew him not.
1Jn:3:2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear
what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like
him; for we shall see him as he is.
Pastor Frank
<spam...@begone.invalid> wrote in message
news:ajib1vcan2ffv5m96...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:25:16 GMT, jdb999inv...@coldmail.com
> (Saint Dude) done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little
> old Usenet News'FROUPS:
> ><fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You are woefully ignorant of the facts John. Benny Hinn isn't stupid
or
> >>criminal, practicing medicine without a licence, charging exorbitant
fees as
> >>doctors do. In fact the opposite is likely true, as his faith healing
show
> >>is listed officially "For entertainment only" I suspect he pays those
> >>appearing on his stage.
>
> for him to 'cure'..
>
charges. Just vilifying a man's name and character without presenting
evidence, make you look either jealous or one Satan's minions doing his job.
> The pomp and parade as he struts across the stage, hissing, making
> false claims such as "Jesus will be standing right beside me on this
> stage" ..... and faking 'glossolalia' is enough to woefully turn ANY
> well-behaved stomach.
>
That's why it's listed for entertainment only, so no claims can be made
against him of making false promises, fraud, etc. etc. I don't watch him for
those reasons, but that doesn't make me an atheist again.
> >
> >Just WHERE, exactly, is it listed "officially" that Hinn's faith
> >healing show is "For entertainment only" ???????
>
I read that some posts back and it makes perfect sense, for that will
protect Benny against legal problems.
Pastor Dave
(it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
>He has bee exposed long ago for paying many to appear as 'ill people'
>for him to 'cure'..
I'm not a Benny Hinn supporter, but I would state that
if you're going to make such a claim, then you should
provide the evidence.
Pastor Dave Raymond
___
In the beginning, God created...
The fact is, if you can't believe the beginning,
you can't believe the end and shouldn't claim to.
To disbelieve the beginning, is to doubt many things
that Jesus said. After all, He made it clear that
He believed it. If you believe in the Trinity, how
can you believe that God wouldn't know how it all
started? Evolution has never been proven and there
is no such thing as a clear progression of fossils,
showing that man came from anything else.
Saint Dude
Pastor Frank
news:BTR1702-C81E5C...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
than to accuse without providing evidence? Instead of "possessed" you can
read "owned", beholden to etc. Who owns you? Your actions? Your speech? Your
thoughts? Don't say "yourself" for thats like a dog leading himself around
by his own leash.
--
Pastor Frank
Jn:11:25: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
BTR1701
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> "BTR1701" <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:BTR1702-C81E5C...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> > In article <10416405...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
> > <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> > >
> > > There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing without
> > > presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
> >
> > Got any evidence for that? Or are you possessed by Satan?
> >
> Satan is symbolic of lies and is the father lies,
Got any evidence for that?
> Who owns you? Your actions? Your speech? Your thoughts?
No one.
Alan A. Hobson
>"Alan A. Hobson" <ahobson@indy_DOT_rr.com> wrote in message
>news:bvlb1v061t48eql25...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:52:21 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
>> >
>> > Wow, how generous of you. That should be stroking your ego for a bit,
>> >lifting your self-esteem. Unfortunately it won't last, and soon you will
>> >have to again hand out downers, and trash other people's beliefs to make
>you
>> >feel a somebody. That's the curse of atheism.
>>
>> Sorry Frank, but you're wrong again.
>
> Of course, when was the last time you agreed with a theist?
When was the last time that you said anything worth agreeing to,
Frank?
I agree with other theists that I know all the time. If they were to
ask me if I believe in god(s), I would say no. On other subjects, we
have agreements and disagreements, just like people normally do.
>I will argue with the people
>> who, like yourself, try to ram their superstitions down my throat.
>
> You don't care to be a bigot first class, do you? For apart from
>Christians, you allow all others to advertise their convictions, without
>complaints.
Um, Frank, in case you didn't notice, Amish people *are* xians.
There's a difference between advertising your convictions and trying
to force others to believe as you do. I don't care if someone wants
to dress differently like the Amish or Mennonites. I don't care if
someone wants to put Jesus stickers and fish symbols all over their
cars.
However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition. I DO
care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book. And it
disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
them of money.
> Like the homosexuals on parade answered our objections: If you
>don't like it, don't look.
So how does someone being a homosexual cause you harm?
>I'm telling you to stop reading Christian posts
>Al. But I bet you won't.
I'm telling you to stop posting your superstitious BS in alt.atheism,
Frank. But I bet you won't.
>
>> In real life, I try to respect the rights of others to have beliefs
>> different from mine. I draw the line when these beliefs cause harm
>> and take advantage of others.
>>
> Ahhw chucks Al, did the Salvation Army lady at the Mall, try to weedle
>money out of you again? You better write to your congress man, and have a
>law passed. Or do you just want us to feel sorry for you?
Nope, they don't bother me either. The bells are a little annoying
though. I do prefer to give my donations to secular charities
however.
-Alan
aa#1608
Carol Lee Smith
> However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition. I DO
> care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book. And it
> disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
> advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
> them of money.
I agree with you.
One thing you might want to note, however, John Edward of Crossing over
has no <S> in his name, as does the John Edwards who aspires to the
presidency.
Carol Lee Smith
> One thing you might want to note, however, John Edward of Crossing over
> has no <S> in his name, as does the John Edwards who aspires to the
> presidency.
Is it really true that John Edwards, D-NC is a Mormon?
Pastor Dave
(it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
<spam...@begone.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0500, Pastor Dave
><pastor...@yahoo.com> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
>here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>
>>On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:38:00 -0600, "© <:o) Dr. Watson
>>(it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
>><spam...@begone.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>He has bee exposed long ago for paying many to appear as 'ill people'
>>>for him to 'cure'..
>>
>>I'm not a Benny Hinn supporter, but I would state that
>>if you're going to make such a claim, then you should
>>provide the evidence.
>>
>>
>>
>>Pastor Dave Raymond
>>___
>The evidence HAS been supplied numerous times, and it's also out there
>on the internet.
I have not seen any such examples.
Alan A. Hobson
pontificated:
My apologies, I'll try to keep them straight in the future. <makes
mental note>
-Alan
aa#1608
Carol Lee Smith
> >One thing you might want to note, however, John Edward of Crossing over
> >has no <S> in his name, as does the John Edwards who aspires to the
> >presidency.
> >
> My apologies, I'll try to keep them straight in the future. <makes
> mental note>
Apology really not necessary. I just had learned something recently
myself and wanted to share it. I always thought the C.O. guy was Edwards,
too.
Pastor Frank
news:u21e1vs6v7r56vfls...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:38:00 -0600, "© <:o) Dr. Watson
> (it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
> <spam...@begone.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >He has bee exposed long ago for paying many to appear as 'ill people'
> >for him to 'cure'..
>
> I'm not a Benny Hinn supporter, but I would state that
> if you're going to make such a claim, then you should
> provide the evidence.
>
easily spotted, for they will always do Satan's work, which is accusing sans
evidence. The word "Satan" means accuser, prosecutor, nagger etc. etc. and
these people don't mind at all, jointing atheists in a combined chorus of
condemnation, an activiity a Christian would be ashamed of doing.
No Christian can form an opinion for or against, from mere hear-say. If
they are that concerned about Hinn, let them get the evidence and have
justice done, but in the mean time they should quit filling our pristine
religious NGs with innuendo.
--
Pastor Frank
THE ATHEIST QUESTION ANSWERED
Jesus in John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7: If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8: Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the
words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11: Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else
believe me for the very works' sake.
Pastor Frank
<spam...@begone.invalid> wrote in message
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:55:19 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
> No REAL minister would carry on as you do , and you make yourself
> sound and look more ridiculous with each succeeding post.
> If YOU wish to believe that Benny Hinn 'can heal' anyone, that is your
> choice.... albeit an incorrect one.
> Hinn cannot offer ANY substantiation to his claims.. he HAS been
> proven to PAY 'ill people' to 'be cured' on his show, and HE HAS been
> skirting the issue as regards to WHERE the money his show makes
> GOES...
> Don't bother preaching at me what I should do, Mister F------- the
> satan-possessed one isn't me.....
>
LOL Do I note of professional jealousy here? I can imagine you being Dr.
Watson, having the likes of Benny Hinn muscle in on your cash cow, hey? ROFL
Like I said, have the man charged or get off his back. Your jealousy
fits combined with atheist trashing and flaming, only serves to make
Christians look like complete jack-asses. But then, that may be your intent,
doesn't it?
Pastor Frank
news:k6he1vovs2dpnetah...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0500, Pastor Dave
> here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
> >(it's elementary, you know!)®²°°²"
> ><spam...@begone.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>He has bee exposed long ago for paying many to appear as 'ill people'
> >>for him to 'cure'..
> >
> >I'm not a Benny Hinn supporter, but I would state that
> >if you're going to make such a claim, then you should
> >provide the evidence.
>
> on the internet.
>
Government complicity? Judicial Corruption? Is Hinn a secret weapon from
Israel? Perhaps to better advantage, all this should be posted to
news:alt.conspiracy instead of our philosophical / spiritual NGs. What do
you think?
Pastor Frank
are such a meaningless jumble. Not to worry, Jesus came especially for you.
Pastor Frank
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> >
> > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
sell you vacuum cleaners.
I DO
> > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
promotes JW prohibition against blood.
And it
> > disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
> > advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
> > them of money.
>
Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and that
from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts and
donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
--
Pastor Frank
Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
K Knight
Pastor Frank <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
news:10417955...@arakis.wincom.net...
> "Carol Lee Smith" <hu...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> > >
> > > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> > > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
> sell you vacuum cleaners.
>
> I DO
> > > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> > > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> > > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
>
> Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
> promotes JW prohibition against blood.
(snip)
I think what was meant was the "Church of Christ Scientist" or Christian
Scientists as they are known. They do not believe in most types of modern
medicine. They would undoubtedly reject blood transfusions. They believe
in prayer and healing by God.
A Christian Scientist with appendicitis is a very sad sight.
Kathy aa #1802
Dread
alt.atheism...
I hope he wore a rubber.
--
Vsevo Khoroshego,
Dread Atheist #1299
Jesus came with a message of peace.
Christians will kill to spread that
message.
**** Disclaimer ****
Unless responding to a cross-post, I only post to Alt.Atheism. My words
are not to be taken as any other atheist viewpoint. This is my view and
my view only.
For the simplicity of discussion, I may or may not refer to a god or your
god as if he is real. By no means, assume that I really believe in a god
or your god in particular.
Dread
> news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> > >
> > > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> > > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
> sell you vacuum cleaners.
How do you know they don't complain? I've got a sign above my door that
says "No solicitation, especially from the business offices of god." That
means the salesman of secular tools can't knock either.
> I DO
> > > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> > > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> > > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
>
> Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
> promotes JW prohibition against blood.
I was to late to this one. I think it's already been clarified.
> And it
> > > disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
> > > advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
> > > them of money.
> >
> Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and that
> from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> Christians don't do that.
Accusations and slander are tools of Christians, yet it doesn't stop many
from calling themselves that. You have accused and slandered many in this
NG alone, Frank. You know what I'm talking about.
> Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts and
Gifts and donations like his? He's making hand-over-fist. He may not
charge, but his services come with a price.
> donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
Perfect comment in a posting about Christians not accusing or slandering.
Give it a rest, Frank.
> Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
> and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
> virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
Instead of the vile ramblings of Frank and his incessant slanders.
--
Vsevo Khoroshego,
Dread Atheist #1299
Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot
make a worm, yet he will make gods by
the dozen. Michel de Montaigne
Dread
> news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> > >
> > > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> > > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
> sell you vacuum cleaners.
How do you know they don't complain? I've got a sign above my door that
says "No solicitation, especially from the business offices of god." That
means the salesman of secular tools can't knock either.
> I DO
> > > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> > > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> > > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
>
> Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
> promotes JW prohibition against blood.
I was to late to this one. I think it's already been clarified.
> And it
> > > disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
> > > advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
> > > them of money.
> >
> Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and that
> from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> Christians don't do that.
Accusations and slander are tools of Christians, yet it doesn't stop many
from calling themselves that. You have accused and slandered many in this
NG alone, Frank. You know what I'm talking about.
> Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts and
Gifts and donations like his? He's making hand-over-fist. He may not
charge, but his services come with a price.
> donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
Perfect comment in a posting about Christians not accusing or slandering.
Give it a rest, Frank.
> Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
> and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
> virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
Instead of the vile ramblings of Frank and his incessant slanders.
BTR1701
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> "BTR1701" <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:BTR1702-132AB2...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> > In article <10417113...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
> > <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> >
> > > "BTR1701" <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:BTR1702-C81E5C...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> > > > In article <10416405...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
> > > > <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing
> > > > > without presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
> > > >
> > > > Got any evidence for that? Or are you possessed by Satan?
> > > >
> > > Satan is symbolic of lies and is the father lies,
> >
> > Got any evidence for that?
No response here. Apparently the answer is no. You must be possessed by
Satan then, huh?
> > > Who owns you? Your actions? Your speech? Your thoughts?
> >
> > No one.
> >
> I noticed that, you don't even own those yourself, that's why your
> words are such a meaningless jumble. Not to worry, Jesus came especially for
> you.
You really are all over the map here. First you tell me not to say I own
my actions because that wouldn't be true, then you criticize me for not
saying just that.
Schizophrenic much?
Oh, and by the way, learn to use a comma properly. The way you (mis)use
punctuations makes reading your prose is challenging to say the least.
BTR1701
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> "Carol Lee Smith" <hu...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> > >
> > > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my
> > > door trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
> sell you vacuum cleaners.
Actually, I would if anyone had ever, even once, come to my door trying
to sell me a vacuum cleaner.
Alan A. Hobson
<hallelujah@praisethelord> pontificated:
>"Carol Lee Smith" <hu...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
>> >
>> > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
>> > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
>sell you vacuum cleaners.
So you don't feel that you have a right *in your own home* to be free
from people barging in and trying to sell you something -- spiritual
or otherwise?
I don't listen to door to door sailesmen's spiels either.
>I DO
>> > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
>> > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
>> > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
>
> Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
>promotes JW prohibition against blood.
>
I didn't specifically mention blood transfustions. That is just one
facet of belief that can contribute to the death of a child at the
hands of religious beliefs.
I'm amazed that you've never heard of Christian Scientists Frank.
Some court cases:
In contrast, in 1990 a Minnesota judge ruled that a Christian
Scientist couple could not be prosecuted for manslaughter in the death
of a diabetic 11-year-old boy who was the wife's natural son and the
husband's stepson. The judge here cited the state law on child neglect
that excepted religious treatment.10
In Florida, a Christian Scientist husband and wife received probation
for an April 1989 conviction of third-degree murder in not providing
medical treatment for their diabetic 7-year-old daughter. But recently
the Florida Supreme Court reversed their conviction, stating that the
religious treatment exception was too vague.12
In August 1989, a Santa Rosa, California, jury acquitted two Christian
Scientists of involuntary manslaughter in the meningitis death of
their 15-month-old daughter, but convicted them of child endangerment.
However, a Los Angeles judge in February 1990 acquitted another
Christian Scientist couple of involuntary manslaughter for the
meningitis death of their toddler son for insufficient evidence.14
In a 1985 Pennsylvania case, a couple was found guilty of involuntary
manslaughter and endangering the welfare of a child in the death of
their 2½-year-old son. The parents had not sought any medical
treatment outside their own religious treatment of their son, who
eventually died of a cancerous tumor. 8
Some other articles:
http://www.masskids.org/jcl/jcl_2.html
The illnesses of Christian Science children and children of certain
faith-healing sects often occur entirely outside the medical and
reporting systems. Often the families and other church or sect members
are the only ones who know of the child's serious condition. The
religious imperative of Christian Science and other sects is, in most
cases, to entirely reject medical care and to rely exclusively on
prayer healing. In Christian Science, childhood illnesses usually
occur within an entirely separate "healing system" which includes
spiritual healers, Christian Science nurses (with no medical
training), as well as church officials. This entire structure
effectively insulates the parents and the child from accessing the
medical or reporting systems. Church peer and authority pressures aid
in this insulating effect.
http://www.oregonlive.com/todaysnews/9811/st112901.html
Over four decades the Followers of Christ Church in Oregon City
amassed one of the largest concentrations of faith-healing child
deaths in the United States while district attorneys and the
Legislature looked the other way.
>And it
>> > disgusts me when someone like John Edwards or Benny Hinn take
>> > advantage of peoples emotional and physical pain in order to fleece
>> > them of money.
>>
> Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and that
>from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
>alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
>Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
>totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts and
>donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
There is not a "hint of evidence" that any of these faith healers cure
anyone who is really sick. There is a *mountain* of evidence that
people of their ilk intentionally deceive the weak, sick, and
superstitious for monetary gain.
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/dept/physics/caton/Columns/BennyHinn.htm
-Alan
************
Some questions that Pastor Frank refuses to answer:
1) Who was Jesus trying to appease with his "sacrifice"?
2) Do you believe that there was a god before Jesus made his
appearance 2000 years ago?
3) Was this the god of the OT?
4) Who is this "Father" that Jesus continually talks about?
5) Were Jesus and his disciples Jewish and did they believe the OT was
true?
6) What is your definition of a soul?
*************
Questions Pastor Frank is unable to answer
1) How is dying a mortal death a sacrifice for an immortal god?
aa#1608
Kirstin
> news:Pine.OSF.3.96.103010...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Alan A. Hobson wrote:
> > >
> > > However, I DO care when some JW or Mormon missionary knocks on my door
> > > trying to talk me into believing their version of superstition.
>
> You are both bigots, for you don't complain if it's someone trying to
> sell you vacuum cleaners.
some of us do complain when people knock on our doors to sell vacuum
cleaners - however, it's not really the same thing: vacuum cleaners are
actually useful, and selling them is an honest way to make a living.
and i'm unaware of even a single incident of anyone killing someone
for using the wrong brand of vacuum cleaner.
> I DO
> > > care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
> > > refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
> > > interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book.
>
> Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
> promotes JW prohibition against blood.
incorrect - see http://www.tfccs.com - "christian science", like the
JW's, is one of the many, many different sects of christianity -
as much as you like to claim sole ownership of the word, there are
others who use it.
kirstinn
Pastor Frank
<spam...@begone.invalid> wrote in message
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:25:12 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
> these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
> >
Dr.
> >Watson, having the likes of Benny Hinn muscle in on your cash cow, hey?
ROFL
> > Like I said, have the man charged or get off his back. Your jealousy
> >fits combined with atheist trashing and flaming, only serves to make
> >Christians look like complete jack-asses. But then, that may be your
intent,
> >doesn't it?
>
> matter?
>
You aren't a "doctor" then? If you were you surely would have understood
my post above and my reference to Hinn healing your potential patients for a
lot less than you would rip them off.
>
> Do dream on!
> ATHEIST trashing and flaming you say? I'm sorry to burst your bubble,
> son, but I am a CHRISTIAN --- not an atheist!
> And I'm not 'flaming' but simly telling the truth.
>
If you call yourself a Christian and flame and trash ANYONE in concert
with atheists you are one of Satan's Minions, for did Satan's minions not
have the same opinion about Christ's healings as you have about those of
Hinn? It's obvious you would want to be one of the crowd shouting "CRUCIFY
HIM"!!!!!!!!!! Wouldn't you? For that is what you are REALLY after. Isn't
that a fact?
I repeat, present your evidence to the proper authorities and have the
man charged and tried by a proper court, not by your innuendo getting kudos
from atheists and making Christians look like complete Jackasses.
BDK
hallelujah@praisethelord says...
At least a pan handler isn't a scumbag sucking money from clueless people
like Benny Hinn. People know the money is going to him, the panhandler,
and not for "missions" or other such nonsense that Hinn and his type use
as a "cover" for their huge incomes.
Benny and his type are worse than the lowest bum, they sucker people,
most of whom can't afford to give much, to send in large chunks of cash,
and then buy million buck plus homes, etc. At least the bum just takes a
few bucks, not enough to lose someones house, something that happens
quite often, from what I read. Some church in Detroit or maybe Columbus
got $20,000 from some old woman, who then had her house forclosed on when
she didn't have any money left to pay her not too big mortgage payment.
Did the church get her house back? They weren't going to, at first, but
after it got on TV, they finally gave the 20K back.
A lot of the time, these people who donate to these losers wipe
themselves out financially, and the church says, "awww, too bad, we will
pray for you", and buy the pastor a new Mercedes.
The worst the bum might do is buy a bottle with the 5 bucks you give him.
BDK
Turin
> "David Matthieu P.P." <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > news:aumorv$idl$1...@news.x-echo.com...
> > > On December 27, Dateline NBC for two hours presented
> > > an investigative report on Benny Hinn Ministries.
> > > Concerning the supposed healing power of Benny Hinn,
> > > the case of Belva Ventura and her son who were both
> > > suffering of Cancer was presented. The son died
> > > shortly after Benny Hinn in Worcester, Massachusetts
> > > in front of 14,000 believers declared that he and his
> > > mother were healed. One month after the last Interview
> > > with NBC, Belva Ventura who truly believed she was
> > > healed by Benny Hinn also died of Cancer.
> > >
> > > During the interview of late Belva Ventura, she
> > > explained how on stage Benny Hinn hugged her and her
> > > son. She recalled how Benny Hinn put his arm around her.
> > > Unblushingly, Benny Hinn in the name of Jesus Christ
> > > gave to Belva and her son the assurance they were healed
> > > of cancer, even though he was fully aware they would soon
> > > die. The poor lady and her son did not understand at all
> > > that the hugs of Benny Hinn were just to provide his
> > > Camera Crew of a touching scene for his Broadcast on TBN.
> > > Only God knows during all these years of Miracle healing
> > > Crusades the incalculable Number of believers who went
> > > home to die after Benny Hinn publicly testified in the
> > > name of Jesus Christ they were healed.
> > >
> > > I am addressing the devoted followers of Benny Hinn, what
> > > prevented your Prophet from knowing that NBC was sending
> > > reporters with hidden Cameras to his crusades? Benny Hinn
> > > must be a blind Prophet, he could not even see all these
> > > cameras few feet from his anointed nose. If only Benny Hinn
> > > could have known in advance that NBC was investigating his
> > > healing power, he would have never pronounced that both Belva
> > > Ventura and her son were healed of cancer. Personally I will
> > > never understand how the Christian Community can still
> > > allow Benny Hinn with a false promise of a miracle to deprive
> > > desperate and suffering people of large sum of money in the
> > > name of Jesus Christ?
> > >
> Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some hope
> to the terminally ill, their last and only hope. The have nothing to lose
> but everything to gain, for hope and faith heals, whereas hopelessness is a
> killer. They have nothing to gain by knowing the truth about their
> condition.
> You obviously prefer people spend their last days hopeless rather than
> hopeful. But that's atheist logic for you, isn't it?
That is one sorry excuse for an exposed fraud, and it goes to show why
the Christian Churches are so packed with hypocritical materialists
and heresies.
I'm sure that Jesus only practiced psychology as well by giving mere
hope to the people He purported to heal. I can just imagine what some
Christians would say if anyone accused Him of doing so.
It will be fitting if during the Judgement Day Jesus tells these pious
secularists that He was "only giving them hope" about salvation just
before He puts them into hell.
Matthew 7:23
Luke 16:25
- - -
This has been another enlightening moment, with:
Turin
I have such sites to show you...
------------------------
http://members.fortunecity.com/turinturambar/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Men_First/
------------------------
"He who changeth, altereth, misconstrueth, argueth with, deleteth, or
maketh a lie about these words or causeth them to not be known shall
burn in hell forever and ever...."
-----
Pastor Frank
news:MPG.1882737a...@127.0.0.1...
that
> > from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> > alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> > Christians don't do that.
>
> Accusations and slander are tools of Christians, yet it doesn't stop many
> from calling themselves that. You have accused and slandered many in this
> NG alone, Frank. You know what I'm talking about.
>
> > Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> > totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts
and
>
> Gifts and donations like his? He's making hand-over-fist. He may not
> charge, but his services come with a price.
>
And what "price "would that be?
> > donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
>
> Perfect comment in a posting about Christians not accusing or slandering.
> Give it a rest, Frank.
>
No Christian will call you names and unflattering epithets. but you are
not answering the point, about you trying to live off free will donations
and gifts. Why not?
> > Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and
just,
> > and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be
any
> > virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
>
> Instead of the vile ramblings of Frank and his incessant slanders.
>
Any evidence for that? Of course not, but what else is new, hey? But
again, you prove my point. "Vile ramblings and slander" indeed!!!!!!!!! LOL
Pastor Frank
news:62dh1vkvgur94sjqp...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:24:07 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> >
that
> >from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> >alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> >Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> >totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts
and
> >donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
>
> There is not a "hint of evidence" that any of these faith healers cure
> anyone who is really sick. There is a *mountain* of evidence that
> people of their ilk intentionally deceive the weak, sick, and
> superstitious for monetary gain.
>
poor folks. Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days. So tell
us were people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford?
For many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
Dread
alt.atheism...
> For many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
Would that be an accusation or merely slandering of atheists, Frank?
Could it possibly be that you have no proof of atheists trashing and
flaming *every* hope they come across? There's your proof, numbnut.
" Any evidence for that? Of course not, but what else is new, hey? But
again, you prove my point. "Vile ramblings and slander" indeed!!!!!!!!!
LOL" - [Pastor Frank, on being accused of slander, otherwise known as
false witness]
I can't find the post where you said atheist are spawns of Satan or demons
or some other such rubbish. That was an unfounded slander too. Admit
that you hate atheists, get help, and move on Frank.
--
Vsevo Khoroshego,
Dread Atheist #1299
If god doesn't like the way I live,
let him tell me, not you. [As seen on
a button]
386sx
> "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed, I'm sure.
Well, if nobody gets healed, then he can't get money from healed folks, now
can he?
> They are mostly poor folks.
Poor folks still have money, and they give it to him. Why? Several
reasons - because he asks them for it; because he tells them they will get
it back a hundred fold; because he tells them the Bible tells them to give
him money - to name a few. Surely you know this; I don't understand why
you would make your above comment, unless your comment is not a sincere
comment. Tell me Frank, why does Benny Hinn do so much preaching about
Benny Hinn?
> Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days. So tell us were
> people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford? For
> many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
Purportedly, those who hang their hopes on Benny Hinn are "believers."
Tell me Frank, whatever happened to prayer? Don't you believe your own
Bible? Why don't you just tell these folks they should pray rather than
give away their money to a swindler? Perhaps because you know prayer is a
bigger crock than even the great Benny Hinn. :-) I'm surprised at you,
Pastor.
--
386
"You might as well try to talk the Pope out of being Catholic."
-- James Randi
Mr. Vega
> "Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
> news:d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com...
...
> >
> > Doesn't look like it heals to me.
>
> Are you saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are zero
> percent? Have you any proof of that?
Naw ---I'm saying if this Jesus stuff is real, his success rate would
be 100%, and that's clearly not the case.
Jack
Alan Hobson
> "Alan A. Hobson" <aho...@indyDOTrr.com> wrote in message
> news:62dh1vkvgur94sjqp...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:24:07 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> > >
> > > Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and
> that
> > >from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> > >alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> > >Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> > >totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts
> and
> > >donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
> >
> > There is not a "hint of evidence" that any of these faith healers cure
> > anyone who is really sick. There is a *mountain* of evidence that
> > people of their ilk intentionally deceive the weak, sick, and
> > superstitious for monetary gain.
> >
> "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed, I'm sure.They are mostly
> poor folks. Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days.
The hospital where I work will turn no one away *regardless* of their
ability to pay.
> So tell
> us were people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford?
> For many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
You have yet to prove that *any* of these people were healed, Frank.
Benny and his ilk do *nothing* to actually cure physical illnesses.
Benny Hinn does *not* provide low cost medical treatment. He doesn't
treat anything. All he does is cajole the gullible into giving him
their money to support his extravagant lifestyle. Would you support
someone going to a voodoo witch doctor for healing instead of Hinn?
-Alan
aa#1608
Louis Kuhelj
I think you meant to say that if this Benny Hinn stuff was real, his
success rate would be 100%.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > "Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
> > news:d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> >
> > Are you saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are
zero
> > percent? Have you any proof of that?
>
> Naw ---I'm saying if this Jesus stuff is real, his success rate would
> be 100%, and that's clearly not the case.
>
couldn't do many miracles in his home-town, surely not for lack of trying?
What do you think?
--
Pastor Frank
Mt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Pastor Frank
news:Xns92FB46B1...@130.133.1.4...
> Pastor Frank wrote:
> >
> > "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed, I'm sure.
>
> Well, if nobody gets healed, then he can't get money from healed folks,
now
> can he?
>
audience
> > They are mostly poor folks.
>
> Poor folks still have money, and they give it to him.
I think you are all wet. Just for legal resons, and considering, his
show is listed as "entertainment" he pays those coming on stage. Not doing
so could result in law suits.
Why? Several
> reasons - because he asks them for it; because he tells them they will get
> it back a hundred fold; because he tells them the Bible tells them to give
> him money - to name a few. Surely you know this; I don't understand why
> you would make your above comment, unless your comment is not a sincere
> comment. Tell me Frank, why does Benny Hinn do so much preaching about
> Benny Hinn?
>
The same does my favourite soap merchant. Except that our Christian soap
washes whiter than white of sin, and no other soap does.
> > Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days. So tell us were
> > people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford? For
> > many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> > prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> > trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
>
> Purportedly, those who hang their hopes on Benny Hinn are "believers."
> Tell me Frank, whatever happened to prayer? Don't you believe your own
> Bible? Why don't you just tell these folks they should pray rather than
> give away their money to a swindler?
You are lucky you are dealing with Christians who are not vindictive.
Others would take you to court for slander. I bet you would lose for you
have no evidece of Benny Hinn committing criminal acts.
But you have to be an atheist to hide behind the anonymity of usenet to
slander and vilify those who disagree with you.
--
Pastor Frank
Rom. 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Pastor Frank
news:d1d6cbe3.03010...@posting.google.com...
negative etc. etc. One sure way to dry up free-will giving is to cajole
people. I'm sure Benny Hinn pays all those appearing on stage. and
considering what we know about the prevalence of psychosomatic illnesses and
the healing success of placebos, especially in those cases, you are totally
wrong as usual.
Give it up already Al, spend you life praising instead of condemning.
Jesus is the answer.
Alan Hobson
> news:62dh1vkvgur94sjqp...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:24:07 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> > >
> > > Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and that
> > >from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> > >alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> > >Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> > >totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts and
> > >donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
> >
> > There is not a "hint of evidence" that any of these faith healers cure
> > anyone who is really sick. There is a *mountain* of evidence that
> > people of their ilk intentionally deceive the weak, sick, and
> > superstitious for monetary gain.
> >
> "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed, I'm sure.They are mostly
> poor folks. Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days.
The hospital where I work will turn no one away *regardless* of their
ability to pay.
> So tell
> us were people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford?
> For many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
You have yet to prove that *any* of these people were healed, Frank.
Benny and his ilk do *nothing* to actually cure physical illnesses.
Benny Hinn does *not* provide low cost medical treatment. He doesn't
treat anything. All he does is cajole the gullible into giving him
their money to support his extravagant lifestyle. Would you support
someone going to a voodoo witch doctor for healing instead of Hinn?
-Alan
aa#1608
386sx
> I think any money he gets come from free will offerings made by the
> audience
Oh, okay Frank. Thanks a lot Frank.
Alan A. Hobson
<hallelujah@praisethelord> pontificated:
>>
>> You have yet to prove that *any* of these people were healed, Frank.
>> Benny and his ilk do *nothing* to actually cure physical illnesses.
>> Benny Hinn does *not* provide low cost medical treatment. He doesn't
>> treat anything. All he does is cajole the gullible into giving him
>> their money to support his extravagant lifestyle. Would you support
>> someone going to a voodoo witch doctor for healing instead of Hinn?
>>
> You are making this all up Al, and as usual it has to be all bad, evil,
>negative etc. etc. One sure way to dry up free-will giving is to cajole
>people.
> I'm sure Benny Hinn pays all those appearing on stage.
You actually believe this? If this is true, then it even makes him
*more* of a fraud.
>and
>considering what we know about the prevalence of psychosomatic illnesses and
>the healing success of placebos, especially in those cases, you are totally
>wrong as usual.
Read what I said above, Frank. I said Hinn and his ilk do nothing to
cure *physical* illness-- not psychosomatic ones. He has claimed
repeatedly that he cures cancer. In case you haven't noticed, cancer
is a real illness that can kill people.
> Give it up already Al, spend you life praising instead of condemning.
Some things deserve to be condemned. Benny Hinn is certainly one of
them.
The question is: Who does Benny Hinn pattern his fake faith healing
after?
>Jesus is the answer.
Thought so.
-Alan
************
Some questions that Pastor Frank refuses to answer:
1) Who was Jesus trying to appease with his "sacrifice"?
2) Do you believe that there was a god before Jesus made his
appearance 2000 years ago?
3) Was this the god of the OT?
4) Who is this "Father" that Jesus continually talks about?
5) Were Jesus and his disciples Jewish and did they believe the OT was
true?
6) What is your definition of a soul?
*************
Questions Pastor Frank is unable to answer:
1)How is dying a mortal death a sacrifice for an immortal god?
aa#1608
Christopher Atkins
>
> -Alan
> ************
> Some questions that Pastor Frank refuses to answer:
>
> 1) Who was Jesus trying to appease with his "sacrifice"?
God
> 2) Do you believe that there was a god before Jesus made his
> appearance 2000 years ago?
Yes
> 3) Was this the god of the OT?
Same as the NT
> 4) Who is this "Father" that Jesus continually talks about?
One part of the Tinitarian Godhead,
> 5) Were Jesus and his disciples Jewish and did they believe the OT was
> true?
Yes, in fact Jesus said this several times
> 6) What is your definition of a soul?
Thats an interesting question, because the when the Bible speaks of the
soul it is different than the contemperary definition, I believe. What
most would call the soul, the Bible calls the spirit. As human beings,
we are part physical and part spiritual. The "soul" is that spiritual
side. It is an actuall thing, but not physical. Meaning it has no space.
We can't see it. Its not a ghost.
> *************
> Questions Pastor Frank is unable to answer:
>
> 1)How is dying a mortal death a sacrifice for an immortal god?
It wasn't his just his death that was the sacrifice. Hung on the cross,
Christ took upon himself the sins of the world and suffered the penalty
that those sins deserved. Death was merly secondary. Besides, Jesus'
human nature was mortal.
ok, that was my two cents.
---
Orb
o...@kc.rr.com
http://www.orbshome.com
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "386sx" <38...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns92FB46B1...@130.133.1.4...
> > Pastor Frank wrote:
> > >
> > > "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed, I'm sure.
> >
> > Well, if nobody gets healed, then he can't get money from healed folks,
> now
> > can he?
> >
> I think any money he gets come from free will offerings made by the
> audience
If he gets money, it's a monetary gain. Deserved or not, it's monetary
gain. He grabs the bucks and gives words in exchange.
> > > They are mostly poor folks.
> >
> > Poor folks still have money, and they give it to him.
>
> I think you are all wet. Just for legal resons, and considering, his
> show is listed as "entertainment" he pays those coming on stage. Not doing
> so could result in law suits.
He pays those he says has healed? That should be very interesting to
prove the point of the people that call him scamster.
> Why? Several
> > reasons - because he asks them for it; because he tells them they will get
> > it back a hundred fold; because he tells them the Bible tells them to give
> > him money - to name a few. Surely you know this; I don't understand why
> > you would make your above comment, unless your comment is not a sincere
> > comment. Tell me Frank, why does Benny Hinn do so much preaching about
> > Benny Hinn?
> >
> The same does my favourite soap merchant. Except that our Christian soap
> washes whiter than white of sin, and no other soap does.
How convenient that those stains are not visible...
> > > Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days. So tell us were
> > > people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford? For
> > > many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing. But then you have to be an atheist to
> > > prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> > > trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
> >
> > Purportedly, those who hang their hopes on Benny Hinn are "believers."
> > Tell me Frank, whatever happened to prayer? Don't you believe your own
> > Bible? Why don't you just tell these folks they should pray rather than
> > give away their money to a swindler?
>
> You are lucky you are dealing with Christians who are not vindictive.
No, he's dealing with you, and surely you don't match that category.
> Others would take you to court for slander.
Why? For telling people that they're possessed by Satan, for example?
> I bet you would lose for you
> have no evidece of Benny Hinn committing criminal acts.
Not against the written law, but against common and basic human
decency. Who said that of "why to act dishonestly outside of the law?
There's so much room inside!"? Hinn is a loyal follower of that rule.
> But you have to be an atheist to hide behind the anonymity of usenet to
> slander and vilify those who disagree with you.
In my case, my real name is in my signature. Telling Hinn a liar and a
scamster is not slander, is just stating the truth. So sad you can't
stand its light.
--
Angel Arnal, Valencia, España aa #1443 BAAWA knave | ULC Ord. Minister
http://angelico.iespana.es maky m. #(sqrt(5)-1)/2
Apatriont #16
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up | Official EAC Latin Lover
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "BTR1701" <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:BTR1702-C81E5C...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> > In article <10416405...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
> > <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> > >
> > > There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing without
> > > presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
> >
> > Got any evidence for that? Or are you possessed by Satan?
> >
> Satan is symbolic of lies and is the father lies, how better to lie,
> than to accuse without providing evidence?
Like accusing of being possessed without any evidence? Do you mean
that?
> Instead of "possessed" you can
> read "owned", beholden to etc. Who owns you?
I do.
> Your actions?
See above.
> Your speech? Your
> thoughts?
Again, see above.
>Don't say "yourself" for thats like a dog leading himself around
> by his own leash.
If you don't want to be accountable of your own actions, that's a good
try at an excuse. I say "myself" because my deeds, right or wrong, are
mine, and my exclusive responsibility.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Angelico" <esten...@terra.es> wrote in message
> news:av43mf$bittg$4...@ID-90593.news.dfncis.de...
> > On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:01:49 +0800, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> > Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> > >
> > > Typical atheist again to push to stoic line. Benny Hinn gives some
> hope
> >
> > Gives? He does not give you even a "good morning," he sells it all and
> > at a high price. The name of his game is "bulk money."
> >
> Accusing again without offering a shred of evidence?
Well, I didn't see the TV show, but I know the stuff. They caught him
red handed, that's evidence enough.
> You atheists are
> all the same, one says those on the Benny Hinn stage are paid actors, the
> other one says they pay large sums of money to get on that stage. None
> presents any evidence one way or the other.
NBC did it for me.
> There is only one certainty in all this, those accusing without
> presenting evidence are possessed by Satan. Now THAT is a fact.
Can you prove the existence of Satan? Or are you lying again?
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Alan A. Hobson" <ahobson@indy_DOT_rr.com> wrote in message
> news:6t5a1vsldq1qi3fel...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:55 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> > <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> pontificated:
> >
> > >> Total BS Frank. In the hospital where I work we see a lot of Amish
> > >> kids and adults with cancer and other problems. Do you seriously
> > >> think that these people live in an environment surrounded by sneering
> > >> sceptics?
> > >
> > > YOU work there don't you? They can feel you sneering at them, even if
> > >you don't look it.
> >
> > Actually, no Frank. I don't sneer at the Amish. I have no problem
> > with them at all. They don't proselytize and, unlike a lot of
> > fundies, they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk.
> > IOW, they aren't hypocrital. They actually live according to their
> > beliefs instead of just paying them lip service. I respect that, even
> > if I don't believe as they do.
> >
> Wow, how generous of you. That should be stroking your ego for a bit,
> lifting your self-esteem. Unfortunately it won't last, and soon you will
> have to again hand out downers,
Like this one you've just handed out?
> and trash other people's beliefs to make you
> feel a somebody. That's the curse of atheism.
Another downer? Are you an atheist?
> > > That's not the point, we all die. The question was how many are
> healed
> > >through faith, be it faith in God, a pill or procedure, their doctor,
> their
> > >minister, Benny Hinn etc. etc.
> >
> > However, pills, doctors and procedures generally have a *lot* more
> > going for them than just faith. Medicine can cure you even if you
> > don't believe in it. I'd be willing to bet that all of Benny Hinn's
> > prayers have not healed *one* person.
> > -Alan
> > aa#1608
> >
> You would lose that bet, Al. The placebo effect has a suprisingly high
> cure rate. I have heard doctors say, that the majority of patients in their
> waiting rooms come to have their psychosomatic illnesses treated, in fact
> most are hypochondriacs. These are ideal patients for faith healing.
It's OK, you admit that faith does not cure, it's just for those who
think are ill. Fine.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Alan A. Hobson" <aho...@indyDOTrr.com> wrote in message
> news:62dh1vkvgur94sjqp...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:24:07 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> > >
> > > Again accusations and slander without even a hint of evidence, and
> that
> > >from people who keep asking for evidence for the existence of God? That
> > >alone should discourage anyone calling himself an atheist. At least
> > >Christians don't do that. Furthermore Benny Hinn charges no money, but is
> > >totally dependent on gifts and donations. Let's see you live from gifts
> and
> > >donations. LOL But then again, perhaps you could -as a pan handler. LOL
> >
> > There is not a "hint of evidence" that any of these faith healers cure
> > anyone who is really sick. There is a *mountain* of evidence that
> > people of their ilk intentionally deceive the weak, sick, and
> > superstitious for monetary gain.
> >
> "Monetary gain"? From whom? Not those healed,
Nobody's healed, get over it. Every dollar he gets is monetary gain.
> I'm sure.They are mostly
> poor folks. Most specialists in the USA bill at $2K/hr these days. So tell
> us were people can go in the USA to get medical treatment they can afford?
Well, personally I find it worse to pay for nothing but kind words.
That money would be better spent in any kind of medical treatment. Or
are you telling us that it's OK that those who can't pay for a decent
medical treatment give their money away to scamsters?
> For many it's Benny Hinn, or nothing.
Correction: Benny Hinn, then nothing. No health, no money; nothing
> But then you have to be an atheist to
> prefer nothing, for that's all that's left after atheists are through
> trashing and flaming every hope they come across.
If nothing can cure me, I'd rather keep my money for my heirs than
give it to a proven charlatan. At least, they'll have my money. Those
fleeced by Hinn are the ones who have nothing.
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Angelico" <esten...@terra.es> wrote in message
> news:av43n9$bittg$1...@ID-90593.news.dfncis.de...
> > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:41:27 +0800, while wandering by alt.atheism,
> > Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> > >
> > > Most people would rather have "false hope" than none at all, a fact
> > > atheists can't understand. What is the percentage of permanent faith
> > > healings?
> >
> > 0.00%
> >
> You are woefully ignorant about the large numbers of patients with
> psychosomatic illnesses, and which can certainly best be cured by faith
> healing.
If it's psychosomatic, it's not an illness, so no cure. I remain in my
0.00%
> You are such a stumble-bum ignoramus,
Why is it that you theists can't say anything positive about anybody?
> always shooting from the hip
> without making a study of the subject beforehand. Read up on Placebo Effect
> and correct your "0.00%" success rate.
I've forgotten more about the placebo effect than you've read in your
whole and sorry life. 0.00% means 0.00%
Angelico
Pastor Frank tapped on my shoulder and told me:
> "Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
> news:d84848ab.03010...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:<10413877...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > > "Mr. Vega" <je...@gtn.net> wrote in message
> > > news:d84848ab.02123...@posting.google.com...
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't look like it heals to me.
> > >
> > > Are you saying Benny Hinn's success rate of permanent healings are
> zero
> > > percent? Have you any proof of that?
> >
> > Naw ---I'm saying if this Jesus stuff is real, his success rate would
> > be 100%, and that's clearly not the case.
> >
> I don't think we are guaranteed a 100% healing rate. Even Christ
> couldn't do many miracles in his home-town, surely not for lack of trying?
> What do you think?
What a weakling of a god!