The facts about GPS and GR
Tom Potter
asserting that General Relativity
is essential to the GPS system.
As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
I have time to explain how satellites are used to
provide precision navigation,
without invoking General Relativity.
1. Light travels at a constant speed
of 299 792.458 meters per second
in the absence of matter,
and in media with sparse matter,
such as the Earth's atmosphere.
2. Time interval measurements of E-M waves in air, and space,
are equivalent to distance measurements.
distance = time interval * C
3. Synchronized clocks can be used to
quantize the distance between the points
by measuring the time it takes light/radio waves
to travel from one point to another.
Clock(A) sends a message that it is time(X).
Clock(B) notes that it is time(X) + I1 on its' clock.
The distance between the clocks is
I1 * C
In other words, systems of synchronized clocks
can quantize the distances between the clocks,
by transmitting the time at each clock's location.
Any clock can determine the distances
between it and other clocks,
by simply determining time(I) for all of the other clocks.
For example,
if one measures a time delay of "I1" of a radio wave
from New York, they must be somewhere on
the surface of a sphere, with a distance radius of I1 * C,
centered about New York
If they also measure a time delay of "I2" of a radio wave
from San Francisco, they must be somewhere on
the surface of a sphere, with a distance radius of I2 * C,
centered about San Francisco.
If they measure both,
they must be on a circle represented by the
intersection of the two spheres.
As can be seen, the measurement of a third point,
would be the intersection of the circle with
another sphere, and would let tell the observer that
they are on one of two points.
A fourth measurement would resolve the situation,
and tell them at which of the two points they are
located.
4. As the GPS satellites are moving,
whereas New York and San Francisco are located
at fixed points (With respect to Earth bound observers.),
it is necessary that GPS receivers know where
the satellites were when they transmitted the time.
This is handled, by having each satellite
transmit its' position in space, along with
the time data.
Each satellite not only transmits where it is ("ephemeris data"),
it transmits its' orbital data ("almanac data"),
along with its' time.
The "ephemeris data"
serves the same purpose to the GPS receiver,
as the Sun does is to a sailor with a sextant.
5. Ground stations continuously monitor
the satellites' orbits and transmissions,
and when changes exceed certain amounts,
signals are sent to the offending satellites,
updating their "almanac data", their "ephemeris data",
their time settings, and drift in their clocks
with respect to the master clock on Earth.
In other words, the ground station monitors the data
transmitted by the satellites and when necessary
sends them signals that tells them, that their
clock is x nano-seconds fast, their orbit has changed to
such and such (Perhaps because of dust drag, etc.),
that their "ephemeris data" should be xxx, etc.
The GPS clocks are set,
to some reference time,
just as your digital watch is,
the only difference being that
the ticks are far more stable, and much finer,
nanoseconds, rather than tenths of seconds.
Drifts in oscillators are corrected by
inserting "ticks", and by adjusting
divider circuits to divide by the desired count.
6. As portable GPS receivers do not have
extremely stable oscillators, they must
derive precision times from the satellites.
As the satellites are at an altitude of about 11,000 miles,
(From the center of the Earth.)
and radio waves travel 186,000 miles in one second,
it takes about .006 seconds for the
time, ephemeris, and almanac data
to reach a sea level receiver.
This means that in a typical transmission,
the GPS receiver must subtract about .006 seconds
from its' clock, in order to set its' clock.
GPS receivers receive and average the times
from several satellites, and recursively
home in on the master time, and make an adjustment
for recursively computed position of the satellite.
In other words, at the reception of the first data,
the GPS receiver knows the master time to about .006 seconds
higher than the first time it receives,
and as it picks up signals from other satellites,
and recursively computes the distances to the
satellites, and averages out multi-path signal variations,
its' own clock homes in on the master clock time.
As the satellites take about 12 hours
(43200 seconds) to orbit the Earth,
and the ephemeris data takes about .006 seconds
to reach the receiver, this means that
the GPS receiver knows where the
satellite is to an accuracy of about one part in
43000 / .006 = 71600000 parts,
even without clock and ephemeris corrections.
Considering that the Earth is about
24,000 miles or 126,000,000 feet in circumference,
this amounts to a sphere of uncertainty of about
1.76 feet at sea level.
7. The clocks used in the GPS system are extremely stable.
They have a long term and short term stability
of about 1 part in 10^14 over one day and even months.
As there are about 3 x 10^13 MICROseconds in a year,
this means that the GPS clocks can maintain microsecond
agreement for over a year, even if no corrections are made.
But of course, adjustments ARE made to the clocks
on a regular basis by a ground clock,
to which all of the GPS clocks are referenced to.
8. As the satellites have a life expectancy of about 10 years,
their orbits are very stable.
In other words, when ground stations get a fix on a satellite's orbit,
we know pretty much where the satellite will be for a long time, and
GPS receivers on the ground have an extremely dependable target to sight on
9. There is some variation in the time it takes the
signal to reach the receiver due to multi paths
taken by the radio wave to the GPS receiver,
so GPS receivers are programmed to compute out the
multi-path variations, and to compute the time,
using the most reliable data it gets from
several satellites.
10. The GPS satellites broadcast on two carrier frequencies:
L1 at 1575.42 MHz and L2 at 1227.6 MHz.
They transmit a "coarse acquisition code" at 1.0 bits per nanosecond and
a "precision code" at a bit rate of 10.230 bits per nanosecond.
As light travels at about 300,000,000 meters per second,
or 300 meters in one micro-second,
a one nano second error would result in an error sphere of about .3 meters
( One foot), and a 10 nanosecond error would
result in an error of about 3 meters or ten feet.
By averaging data from multiple satellites,
a receiver can reduce the timing uncertainty
due to multipaths, and can reduce the error sphere
by only averaging where the error spheres
of several satellites overlap.
The single largest contributor to time transfer uncertainty is path delay,
the delay introduced as the signal travels from the satellite
to the receiver.
In order to measure the time interval most accurately,
a quasi-random code is used. The GPS receiver performs
a auto-correlation on the quasi-random signal
in order to eliminate the jitter in the leading edge
of the transmitted signal, caused by transmitter noise,
receiver noise, environmental noise, multipath signal combining,
jamming, etc.
In other words, a segment of the quasi-random signal is
incrementally delayed, and multiplied by the signal stream.
If two string of random numbers are multiplied,
a maximum occur when and if the strings match,
otherwise the product tends toward zero.
The Military can play games with the GPS signals by
juggling the "precision code" signals,
and thus messing up the accuracy
to which a GPS receiver can the time interval.
In summary, the largest contributor
to time transfer uncertainty is caused by
variations path delay, due to signals reflected
off mountains, buildings, etc., and as note,
much of the path delay errors can be averaged out,
because the satellites are moving, and signals
are received from several satellites.
The best GPS receivers can,
by using the methods addressed above,
reduce the uncertainty in time to about one nanosecond,
which amounts to a sphere of uncertainty of about one foot.
The errors due to GR effects,
aren't even a factor in the GPS system.
It is interesting to see that an oft quoted
( By the GR pushers )Neil Ashby states:
"It is not easy right now to perform relativity tests using GPS
because satellite clocks are actively corrected
to within 1 microsecond of Universal Coordinated Time."
As can be seen, the corrections that are sent to
the GPS clocks to
"actively correct to within 1 microsecond of Universal Coordinated Time."
are a clear indication of how the clocks on the ground,
and the clocks on the satellites differ,
and that an examination of these corrections would
clearly show what differential effects were operative.
The bottom line is,
that the hype that GR was and is essential to the GPS
system, is just that hype, and if there are effects in
space and at orbital velocities that do affect clocks,
the data is available to determine this to parts in 10^14.
I suggest that General Relativity is a Tower of Babel,
used by charlatans to pretend to be privy to esoteric knowledge,
and to con taxpayers out of their hard-earned money,
and that it is not a viable, cost-effective
approach to ANY real world problem.
GR, like Aristotle's physics, Marxism, and Freudism,
has diverted man's time, energy and resources
away from methods that are more viable and cost-effective,
and has sent man off on a detour.
Hopefully, it won't be a 1500 year detour,
as it was in the case of Aristotle.
--
Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
===============
WHO instigates conflict and war for power and wealth?
WHO instigated the class wars of the 1900's?
WHO is instigating the religious wars of the 2000's?
WHO has a well organized propaganda machine?
WHO gang attacks all who expose their agenda and methods?
Visit my web site, and download the world's best physics tutorial!
===============
Sam Wormley
>
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
>
Interface Control Document ICD-GPS-200C
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Neil Ashby
http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Clifford M. Will
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
Crank Information
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tom+Potter%22+site%3Awww.crank.net
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Aretiche
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher1
Sam Wormley
Oh Tom--You might want to read some GPS tutorials
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/tutorials.html
Mu-Pi
"Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
Hello crackpot. Yes... this is in fact the case.
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
> As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
> I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> provide precision navigation,
> without invoking General Relativity.
And you will fail... I predict.
> 1. Light travels at a constant speed
> of 299 792.458 meters per second
> in the absence of matter,
Wrong, crackpot, by three orders of magnitude.
http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Value?c|search_for=c
http://www.100.nist.gov/science.htm
http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/waves_particles/lightspeed-1.html
> and in media with sparse matter,
> such as the Earth's atmosphere.
Wrong, crank.
http://www.what-is-the-speed-of-light.com/refractive-index.html
When you are able to get at least the two first posits of your theory
correct, the dissection will proceed.
Get out of here, crackpotter. *smirk*
Tom Potter
"Mu-Pi" <Mu...@greekletter.net> wrote in message
news:BGyEb.649$y17.1...@news.uswest.net...
I must apologize to Mike Varney
for confusing him by typing a period,
rather than a comma.
Considering that my explanation of the GPS system
took several hundred lines, I dare say that I
made a couple of more typos.
As Mike Varney is so easily confused,
I suggest that he refrain from reading long, complicated posts.
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:3FE2B2B4...@mchsi.com...
As can be seen,
Sam Wormly uses his standard, sociopathic tactic,
of providing useless references, including his
resident, Internet physics expert,
the web site of the computer programmer
who took some data processing classes
at a third rate California college.
And as can be seen,
by the folks who read my post,
it's purpose is to correct some of the
urban legends, and misconceptions,
spread by the references that Sam Wormly provides.
Tom Potter
( I typed "299 792 .458 meters per second"
rather than
"299,792,458 meters per second"),
I am reposting the article
with the typo corrected.
==============
There have been many posts
asserting that General Relativity
is essential to the GPS system.
As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
I have time to explain how satellites are used to
provide precision navigation,
without invoking General Relativity.
1. Light travels at a constant speed
of 299,792,458 meters per second
in the absence of matter,
and in media with sparse matter,
such as the Earth's atmosphere.
2. Time interval measurements of E-M waves in air, and space,
--
Dirk Van de moortel
"Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message news:brusuk$7rii4$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> As Mike Varney was kind enough to alert me to a typo,
> ( I typed "299 792 .458 meters per second"
> rather than
> "299,792,458 meters per second"),
> I am reposting the article
> with the typo corrected.
>
> ==============
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
>
> As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
> I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> provide precision navigation,
> without invoking General Relativity.
>
> 1. Light travels at a constant speed
> of 299,792,458 meters per second
> in the absence of matter,
> and in media with sparse matter,
> such as the Earth's atmosphere.
with a refractive index n = 1.0003 that would
typically be about 299,700,000 m/s.
That is a difference of about 90 km/s.
Ninety kilometers per second.
Dirk Vdm
Richard Herring
<dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> writes
as 0.9999 at GPS frequencies. That's a difference in phase velocity of
tens of km/s in the opposite direction. And the group velocity will be
different again.
--
Richard Herring
Dirk Van de moortel
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:Lj8SRBSxOw4$Ew...@baesystems.com...
Aaarg! Shhhh!
I was saving that for later ;-)))
Dirk Vdm
Pyriform
> Considering that my explanation of the GPS system
> took several hundred lines, I dare say that I
> made a couple of more typos.
The only mystery is why you bothered writing an explanation for a GPS
system which exists only in your head, rather than the one many of us
use on a daily basis - for which plentiful and correct technical
documentation already exists.
--
Pyriform
Uncle Al
>
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
>
> As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
> I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> provide precision navigation,
> without invoking General Relativity.
Fucking imbecile.
<http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html>
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
Relativity in the GPS system
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/gpsuser/gpsuser.pdf
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.html
http://sirius.chinalake.navy.mil/satpred/
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
http://egtphysics.net/GPS/RelGPS.htm
http://www.schriever.af.mil/gps/Current/current.oa1
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html
<http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
Franz Heymann
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
It is.
[snip]
Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between clocks
and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
Franz
Mu-Pi
I don't accept apologies from crackpots such as yourself, Crackpotter.
Go away.
Mu-Pi
> As Mike Varney was kind enough to alert me to a typo,
> ( I typed "299 792 .458 meters per second"
> rather than
> "299,792,458 meters per second"),
> I am reposting the article
> with the typo corrected.
>
> ==============
> There have been many posts
> asserting that General Relativity
> is essential to the GPS system.
>
> As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
> I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> provide precision navigation,
> without invoking General Relativity.
>
> 1. Light travels at a constant speed
> of 299,792,458 meters per second
> in the absence of matter,
> and in media with sparse matter,
> such as the Earth's atmosphere.
BZZZT! DOA moron. I gave you the correct link... here it is again.
Try once more.
http://www.what-is-the-speed-of-light.com/refractive-index.html
Even with my help your are too retarded to get even the simplest things
correct. How were you ever toilet trained I wonder.
Jeff Relf
" There have been many posts
asserting that General Relativity
is essential to the GPS system "
No , Special and general relativity
are necessary to Understand the GPS system .
There's a big difference .
When Einstein was a clerk in Switzerland in 1905 ,
There was a lot of work going on
on how to synchronize clocks .
In away , Switzerland and not Einstein
should get much of the credit for
the theory behind today's GPS systems .
In away , Einstein was the world's greatest watchmaker .
As we can now use a Casio wristwatch to get
the current time ( in nanoseconds ) and position
anywhere near the surface of the earth .
And with Hawking's work
on the quantum qualities of black holes and the big bang ,
We know much more about " Cosmic time " .
( Which , metaphysically , I think of as the heatscape ,
the fifth spatial dimension into which gravity curves )
To locate an object ,
The GPS constellation requires exactly four dimensions .
No more . No less .
But , observationally , the GPS' gravitational fields ,
a.k.a. The Einsteinian spacetime ,
likely didn't exist before the big bang .
Nor will they likely exist after the big freeze .
The universe as we perceive it is likely to be progressing
from the infinitely hot Big Bang
to the infinitely cold Big Freeze .
So the universe seems to be progressing
not just through the Einsteinian timescape ,
but also though a " Heatscape " ...
Which might therefore be thought of as
the fifth spatial dimension .
So at 10 ^ -X seconds after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches infinity .
And at 10 ^ X years after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches zero .
Jim
wrote:
>There have been many posts
>asserting that General Relativity
>is essential to the GPS system.
You are so silly.
But somewhat entertaining. :)
Keep up the good work.
(The replies to your posts are very helpful, thanks.)
Jim
Dirk Van de moortel
"Jim" <lose...@workformhome.com> wrote in message news:0717uvk2dgvusuafj...@4ax.com...
Hey, that is right - I never looked at it this way, but I
have to admit that I have learned a lot from the replies
to idiots. These guys are not only top class entertainers,
they are great learning motivators as well.
Excellent point!
Dirk Vdm
Sam Wormley
In other words, cranks and troll further physics information
dissemination and education in spite of themselves! How about
that Potter?
Dirk Van de moortel
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:3FE3895A...@mchsi.com...
Well... I wouldn't even use the "in spite of themselves".
That sounds a bit pejorative and there is no need to do
that. These guys are treated like dog shit and they seem
to really enjoy it. Would they always come back to get
their bottoms kicked if they wouldn't love it?
Dirk Vdm
Michael Varney
"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:9FLEb.86659$rS1.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=DDxq29.ICy%40actrix.gen.nz
hanson
news:3fe315a3$0$2766$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Tom Potter wrote:
> > >There have been many posts asserting that General Relativity
> > > >satellites are used to provide precision navigation, without
> > > >invoking General Relativity.
>
This is good, Pyriform!.... ahahahahaha....ahahahaha.. You got it.
All these learned geniuses that cuss/curse each other here simply
promote their own vision about the importance of Relativity in a
hysterical pro/con hype rally fitting a very simple classification:
= Anybody who works in mil/indust. Eng, R&D "does NOT need GR shit"
= Anybody who works in *.edu & for R-grants "does need GR, - No shit"
= Anybody who's in Promo, Sales & Movies "loves GR by the shit-load"
= Jews protect GR as their cultural heritage whether "GR is shit or not".
ahahaha.....ahahahahanson
hanson
> > > >There have been many posts asserting that General Relativity
> > > >satellites are used to provide precision navigation, without
> > > >invoking General Relativity.
> > >
> > > But somewhat entertaining. :)
> > > Keep up the good work.
> > > (The replies to your posts are very helpful, thanks.)
> >
So, you the self-anointed counter parts to cranks and trolls, the ones
who imagine/feel to be the high c-Ranks that fulfill important t-Rolls
are congratulating each other here. ..ahahahhahaha....What a honor!
Before I congratulate you too, let me beg you to have the humble
insight that were it not for your cursed cranks and trolls you'd have
no raison d'etre at all.........ahahahahaha.........ahahahahahaha....
You all remind me of nano popes, utterly dependent on the existence
of the much mightier devil(s).....Merry Xmas....& CONGRATULATIONS!
ahahahahaha....ahahahanson
PS: what continuously amazes me how little faith you masters
of physics have in your knowledge. Any little fart that passes
across you catechism evokes an immediate state of extreme
hysteria in you. Why are you so insecure? Don't bring up your
concerns for students now! They chuckle behind the back of you
fossils anyway......not me through....oh, no, I wouldn't dare.....a.......
Tom Potter
It is interesting to see that "Pyriform"
asserts that if there is information about
something somewhere, that it is a "mystery"
if someone makes a post regarding it
in the newsgroups.
I challenge "Pyriform" to post some of the
"plentiful and correct technical
documentation already exists",
that negates what I wrote in my post,
so that the readers can determine if his
""plentiful and correct technical documentation"
is valid, and useful.
As I pointed out, much of the information
on the GPS system are urban legends,
and esoteric babble.
I challenge "Pyriform"
to prove his opinion that what I posted
is not valid, and ""exists only in <my> head".
Opinions are like ass holes.
Everybody has one.
I assert that having (Or being ) an asshole
does not make someone's opinion valid.
Tom Potter
It is interesting to see that "Pyriform"
asserts that if there is information about
something somewhere, that it is a "mystery"
if someone makes a post regarding it
in the newsgroups.
I challenge "Pyriform" to post some of the
"plentiful and correct technical
documentation already exists",
that negates what I wrote in my post,
so that the readers can determine if his
""plentiful and correct technical documentation"
is valid, and useful.
As I pointed out, much of the information
on the GPS system are urban legends,
and esoteric babble.
I challenge "Pyriform"
to prove his opinion that what I posted
is not valid, and ""exists only in <my> head".
Opinions are like ass holes.
Everybody has one.
I assert that having (Or being ) an asshole
does not make someone's opinion valid.
--
Tom Potter
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FE319EF...@hate.spam.net...
> Tom Potter wrote:
> >
> > There have been many posts
> > asserting that General Relativity
> > is essential to the GPS system.
> >
> > As the WHO boiler-room seems to be on holiday break,
> > I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> > provide precision navigation,
> > without invoking General Relativity.
> [snip]
>
> Fucking imbecile.
>
>
<http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/i
ndex.html>
> http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
> Relativity in the GPS system
> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/gpsuser/gpsuser.pdf
> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm
> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
> http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.html
> http://sirius.chinalake.navy.mil/satpred/
> http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
> http://egtphysics.net/GPS/RelGPS.htm
> http://www.schriever.af.mil/gps/Current/current.oa1
> http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html
> <http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>
It is interesting to see that as "Uncle Al"
is unable to address the issues raised in my post,
that he uses on the standard tactic of a loser,
and relies solely on ad hominem.
Also note that as he is unable to address
the points raised in my post,
that he reposted the useless, and faulty references,
that he has many times in the past.
As can be seen, the purpose of my article
was to expose the flaws in many of these references,
that are constantly used by people, who do not
read or understand them.
Truth comes about by engaging in a dichotomy,
and ferreting out the facts.
NOT by posting and reposting
the same faulty information.
I challenge "Uncle Al"
to prove he is not a "Fucking imbecile"
by addressing the issues raised in the post,
rather than posting low class, childish, insults.
Opinions are like ass holes.
Everybody has one.
I assert that having (Or being )
(Or acting like) an asshole
does not make someone's opinion valid.
--
EjP
Tom Potter wrote:
>
> (...snip Potter-drivel...)
>
> It is interesting to see that an oft quoted
> ( By the GR pushers )Neil Ashby states:
> "It is not easy right now to perform relativity tests using GPS
> because satellite clocks are actively corrected
> to within 1 microsecond of Universal Coordinated Time."
>
The complete article is here
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
Your out-of-context quote is extremely misleading
in that if immediately follows the discussion
of a period when the system was run *unsynchronized*
for 20 days and relativitistic effects were
verified to better than 1% (within errors).
Because this totally invalidates the rest of
your "argument", you have conveniently chosen
to ignore it.
You also miss a key distinction. The sentence
states that they can no longer perform
"relativity tests". What this means is
that because they now regularly synchronize the system,
it can no longer be used to *test* relativity at
the level of the 20 day test. This does NOT
mean that relativity is unimportant. Even with the
frequency that they synchronize the system, there
would be large errors if they did not correct for
relativity. Similarly, I do not claim my
FM radio is a "test of Maxwell's equations", even
though it would not work without them.
Now, in typical Potter fashion you will call
me a "sociopath" for correctly pointing out that
you are an idiot and a troll.
-E
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tom Potter
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:brv7ng$661$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > There have been many posts
> > asserting that General Relativity
> > is essential to the GPS system.
>
> It is.
>
> [snip]
>
> Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between
clocks
> and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
Address the issues raised in my post,
rather than use low class, childish ad hominem.
If I "advertised <my> ignorance so publicly",
it should be very easy for an intelligent, knowledgeable
person to expose that "ignorance".
Why would any rational, intelligent, MORAL person
call an "ignorant" person nasty names,
rather than correcting his "ignorance"?
Opinions are like ass holes.
Everybody has one.
I assert that having (Or being ) an asshole
does not make someone's opinion valid.
Address the issues.
Don't be an "ignorant" asshole.
Tom Potter
It is interesting to see that "Jim"
considers factual information to be
"silly" and "entertaining",
and ad hominem to be "helpful".
Hopefully, in time,
he will do a 180 in his value system.
Tom Potter
Are you trying to make the case that
repeating John 3/16 over and over,
and posting the same URL's,
and calling the folks "cranks and trolls",
and using the web site of a computer programmer
as a primary reference,
is preferable to addressing issues
in an intelligent, rational, moral way?
Tom Potter
As can be seen, "Dirk Van de moortel"
reveals that he gets an ego boost out of fantasizing that
he is treating someone like "dog shit",
when he has been "instigated" to
exhibit his basic sciatic tendencies
in a public forum.
I must admit,
that I do "love" "instigating"
phonies and sociopaths
into showing their true colors.
Jim
Tom Potter
news:prg7uv8qcp8b3iij4...@4ax.com...
I don't have to "find" the sociopaths.
There are ways of smoking them
out of the wood work.
And, of course, once they are out,
rational, intelligent folks can see for themselves
who the phonies and sociopaths are.
Phonies are egocentric,
and try to falsely impress and ego trip on folks,
whereas sociopaths enjoy harming folks,
physically, calling them names, demeaning them, etc.
Sam Wormley
>
> As I pointed out, much of the information
> on the GPS system are urban legends,
> and esoteric babble.
>
All you've pointed out Potter is that you either haven't
read the GPS literature, or a incapable of understanding
it. What a dummy!
Interface Control Document ICD-GPS-200C
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Neil Ashby
http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
"General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Clifford M. Will
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
Crank Information
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tom+Potter%22+site%3Awww.crank.net
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Aretiche
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher1
Sam Wormley
Eternal life is bullshit Potter. Life and death... live
die.... We all die, microbes, plants, dogs, you and me.
Evolution... life must adapt to its changing environment.
Sam Wormley
>
> What a victory party!
> So, you the self-anointed counter parts to cranks and trolls, the ones
> who imagine/feel to be the high c-Ranks that fulfill important t-Rolls
> are congratulating each other here. ..ahahahhahaha....What a honor!
> Before I congratulate you too, let me beg you to have the humble
> insight that were it not for your cursed cranks and trolls you'd have
> no raison d'etre at all.........ahahahahaha.........ahahahahahaha....
> You all remind me of nano popes, utterly dependent on the existence
> of the much mightier devil(s).....Merry Xmas....& CONGRATULATIONS!
> ahahahahaha....ahahahanson
>
> PS: what continuously amazes me how little faith you masters
> of physics have in your knowledge. Any little fart that passes
> across you catechism evokes an immediate state of extreme
> hysteria in you. Why are you so insecure? Don't bring up your
> concerns for students now! They chuckle behind the back of you
> fossils anyway......not me through....oh, no, I wouldn't dare.....a.......
If there were no cranks and trolls, perhaps the discussions would be
more about subtleties in theories or their consequences or what approximations
to make in "back of the envelop calculations". This could be a much more
productive environment for discussing and understanding physics.
tj Frazir
Plane fucking stupid.
I saw yer web site befor I pounded GPS in yer thick scull.
yer an uter moron .
BTW I ALONE INVENTED GPS .
it toulk morons 10 years to understand what I said.
The fuckers all want to steel the shit and claim its thier own.
In a year or two ,,japan will kick your ass with MY sigless GPS .
FEAR THIS ....dipole 3d cam watches the eaths dipole and the dipole of
the molicule in the vaccuume that wount turn with the earth and is fixed
forver with te stars ...down to the sise of a pocket item .
NO SIG BLOCK POSIBLE .
No sat neaded.
My old toys will put you out.
Mu-Pi
>
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:brv7ng$661$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> > news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > There have been many posts
> > > asserting that General Relativity
> > > is essential to the GPS system.
> >
> > It is.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> > You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between
> clocks
> > and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
>
> Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
Do as you say, not as you do, Crackpotter?
Sam Wormley
Ah, it's ncie to have an intercration with you Frazir. I awlays wnodeerd
how you jutsified taikng creidt for GPS and its use of relativsitic
corerctions.
hanson
news:26136-3FE...@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...
> Ill call you a fucking dummie sam. [Sam Wormley]
Ahahahahaha.......ahahahaha......ahahaha....
I am impressed and grateful, tj, to spend a moment in the shadow
of a truly great inventor AND a man of pure genius, such as you,
Dr. Thompson Jeffrey Frazer, Capt. of the 7 hi-seas and multi billionaire.
Sam Wormley, can't you see what you are missing?
Ahahahahha........ahahahahanson
hanson
But, I don't buy that cranks nor trolls can prevent you, Sam, nor anyone
else from discussing subtleties etc. Give me one good reason why
this should be the case. I would love to see your aims be fulfilled.
Till then I enjoy myself with what's available. I have fun*.
Happy holidays, Sam
hanson
PS: * = see my other post to tj. Sam, look at it this way: Physics
like any other branch in science is ultimately a social enterprise.
It does not have to be like a walk thru' the graveyard.
Besides the more cranks and trolls you have interested & engaged
in science, the more public funding will flow into science. hanson
Mu-Pi
"tj Frazir" <Gravity...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26136-3FE...@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...
States the brain dead monkey known as Frazir.
Paul R. Mays
"Mu-Pi" <Mu...@greekletter.net> wrote in message
news:jXSEb.1405$Ox4....@news.uswest.net...
I'm just surprised he spelled "fucking" right.....
Tom Potter
"EjP" <nos...@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:bs0da8$6o9$1...@info4.fnal.gov...
>
> Tom Potter wrote:
> >
> > (...snip Potter-drivel...)
> >
> > It is interesting to see that an oft quoted
I suggest that the article is full of holes.
For example the writer writes:
==============================
"The atomic clock was first operated for about 20 days
to measure its clock rate before turning on the synthesizer.
The frequency measured during that interval was
+442.5 parts in 10^12 faster than clocks on the ground;
if left uncorrected this would have resulted
in timing errors of about 38,000 nanoseconds per day."
======================================================
Note that 442.5 parts in 10^12 in twenty days
is 22 parts in 10^12 per day.
( 22 pico seconds, or .02 nanoseconds per day. )
And note that as there are 86,400 x 10^9 nanoseconds per day,
( 24 * 60 * 60 * 1x10^9)
that 38,000 nanoseconds per 86,400 x 10^9 nanoseconds,
is 22 parts in 10^8
NOT 22 parts in 10^12.
In other words, the writer incorrectly states
that a drift of 22 parts in 10^12 per day,
would result in an error of 22 parts in 10^8 per day.
I am thinking about posting copy
from that (And other oft quoted articles)
article in sci.physics under my own name,
to see how the sci.physics Taliban
react to me posting stuff like that.
I am honored that "EjP"
thinks that exposing obvious errors in articles,
that are frequently used as references,
is "Potter-drivel".
I suspect that many people, like "EjP",
are unable to see the error,
because they are bambozzled by the GR babble.
Hopefully, "Potter-drivel" will become the standard phrase for
"The Emperor has no clothes." observations.
Perhaps the problem is that "EjP"
has a reading comprehension problem,
as he read, and quoted from, the same paragraph,
and did not comprehend what he read.
I was disappointed to see that "EjP"
is unable to comprehend that the periodic
corrections made to the satellite clocks,
is evidence of how the clocks in the satellites
are performing with respect to a clock on the ground.
This may be due to his reading comprehension problem,
or perhaps his lack of understanding of physics and clocks.
Of course, it could be,
that a"EjP" is, as he suggests a sociopath,
who was looking for an excuse to call someone
"an idiot and a troll", and that truth and facts
are not important to him.
But all sarcasm aside,
GR is a Tower of Babel,
and when someone makes a link between GR and
their agenda, they are able to capture the phonies
who want to appear intelligent,
and they are able to bamboozle the people
whose minds blank out when things
are made to appear complicated.
The following terms have little, or nothing, to do with GPS,
but they seemed to have worked for Neil Ashby,
so I have thrown them in with the hope that they will bamboozle
some of the more impressionable people like "EjP",
and put them into a hypnotic state.
==================================
Earth-Centered Inertial or ECI frame
Time dilation of moving clocks
The weak principle of equivalence
free fall, gravitational frequency shifts
The Sagnac effect
time dilation arising from earth's spinning motion
contributions arising from earth's non-sphericity
gravitational equipotentials
General Relativity (GR), coordinate time
slow-motion, weak-field metric
elapsed coordinate time
earth's quadrupole potential, and space curvature
=================================
Tom Potter
As can be seen, Sam Wormly continues to post
the same old useless and flawed references that I exposed in my article,
as he is unable to address the specific points of my post.
Knowledge and truth comes about through dichotomies,
not through the repetition of useless and flawed references and urban
legends.
Tom Potter
It is you, not me,
who tries to inhibit the free flow of information and ideas,
to impose a Taliban-like opposition to heretics,
and to give eternal life to a set of ideas.
I like entropy, Natural Selection, free markets, freedom, and anarchy.
Tom Potter
Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly Mike Varney.
The management at your edu account,
might consider that you are smearing their good name,
pull your account,
and perhaps even have you medicated.
Michael Varney
>
> "Mu-Pi" <Mu...@greekletter.net> wrote in message
> news:oiREb.195$Rn.1...@news.uswest.net...
> >
> > "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> > news:bs0ds8$7rteh$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Franz Heymann" <notfranz...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:brv7ng$661$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > There have been many posts
> > > > > asserting that General Relativity
> > > > > is essential to the GPS system.
> > > >
> > > > It is.
> > > >
> > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> > > > You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between
> > > clocks
> > > > and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
> > >
> > > Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> >
> > Do as you say, not as you do, Crackpotter?
>
> Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly
Do as you say, not as you do, CrackPotter?
> The management at your edu account,
> might consider that you are smearing their good name,
> pull your account,
> and perhaps even have you medicated.
LOL! Cranks like you always resort to threats like this when you have been
publicly embarrassed.
Harris did it, Vajk did it, Archimedes Plutonium did it, Hammond did it,
Brown did it, and many others. They all lost. *smirk* You are not any
better than they are. You will lose as well. Hahahahahahahahaha!
Dirk Van de moortel
"Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message news:bs0f8a$8bvfa$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
AARGHH! Sorry, I should have remembered you prefer
the horses:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss2.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss.html
My mistake. Won't happen again...
Dirk Vdm
Dirk Van de moortel
"Michael Varney" <varney@colorado_no_spam.edu> wrote in message news:GtNEb.515$4N1....@news.uswest.net...> in message news:9FLEb.86659$rS1.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> >
> > "Jim" <lose...@workformhome.com> wrote in message
> news:0717uvk2dgvusuafj...@4ax.com...
> > > On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:23:33 +0800, "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >There have been many posts
> > > >asserting that General Relativity
> > > >is essential to the GPS system.
> > >
> > > You are so silly.
> > > But somewhat entertaining. :)
> > > Keep up the good work.
> > >
> > > (The replies to your posts are very helpful, thanks.)
> >
> > Hey, that is right - I never looked at it this way, but I
> > have to admit that I have learned a lot from the replies
> > to idiots. These guys are not only top class entertainers,
> > they are great learning motivators as well.
> > Excellent point!
>
1995, that was before my fumble page :-)
Seems I missed something!
Good one :-)
Dirk Vdm
Franz Heymann
[snip]
> Fucking imbecile.
It is presumptious on your part in stating that Potter is capable of doing
so.
Franz
Franz Heymann
>
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:brv7ng$661$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> > news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > There have been many posts
> > > asserting that General Relativity
> > > is essential to the GPS system.
> >
> > It is.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> > You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between
> clocks
> > and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
>
> Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> Address the issues raised in my post,
> rather than use low class, childish ad hominem.
>
> If I "advertised <my> ignorance so publicly",
> it should be very easy for an intelligent, knowledgeable
> person to expose that "ignorance".
I have pointed out quite precisely where your ignorance lies. What more do
you require, moron?
> Why would any rational, intelligent, MORAL person
> call an "ignorant" person nasty names,
> rather than correcting his "ignorance"?
It is fully justified in your particular case, imbecile.
Franz
Franz Heymann
> > >
> > > There have been many posts
> > > asserting that General Relativity
> > > is essential to the GPS system.
> > >
> > > I have time to explain how satellites are used to
> > > provide precision navigation,
> > > without invoking General Relativity.
> > [snip]
> >
> > Fucking imbecile.
> >
> >
>
<http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/i
> ndex.html>
> > http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
> > Relativity in the GPS system
> > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/gpsuser/gpsuser.pdf
> > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm
> > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
> > http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.html
> > http://sirius.chinalake.navy.mil/satpred/
> > http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
> > http://egtphysics.net/GPS/RelGPS.htm
> > http://www.schriever.af.mil/gps/Current/current.oa1
> > http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html
> > <http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>
>
> It is interesting to see that as "Uncle Al"
> is unable to address the issues raised in my post,
> that he uses on the standard tactic of a loser,
> and relies solely on ad hominem.
Can you read, Potty, if so, why have you not noticed that U.A. has coped
completely with your bullshit by giving you no fewer than 10 references to
information on this topic ?
Franz
Franz Heymann
"EjP" <nos...@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:bs0da8$6o9$1...@info4.fnal.gov...
>
>
> Tom Potter wrote:
> >
> > (...snip Potter-drivel...)
> >
> > It is interesting to see that an oft quoted
> > "It is not easy right now to perform relativity tests using GPS
> > because satellite clocks are actively corrected
> > to within 1 microsecond of Universal Coordinated Time."
> >
>
> The complete article is here
> http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
>
> Your out-of-context quote is extremely misleading
> in that if immediately follows the discussion
> of a period when the system was run *unsynchronized*
> for 20 days and relativitistic effects were
> verified to better than 1% (within errors).
> Because this totally invalidates the rest of
> your "argument", you have conveniently chosen
> to ignore it.
You are wasting your time. Potty is not equipped with the mental baggage to
understand that.
>
> You also miss a key distinction. The sentence
> states that they can no longer perform
> "relativity tests". What this means is
> that because they now regularly synchronize the system,
> it can no longer be used to *test* relativity at
> the level of the 20 day test. This does NOT
> mean that relativity is unimportant. Even with the
> frequency that they synchronize the system, there
> would be large errors if they did not correct for
> relativity. Similarly, I do not claim my
> FM radio is a "test of Maxwell's equations", even
> though it would not work without them.
You have just been wasting even more of your time on Potty.
However, on more sober reflection, your contribution would be of some value
with readers possessing more intelligence than Potty
>
> Now, in typical Potter fashion you will call
> me a "sociopath" for correctly pointing out that
> you are an idiot and a troll.
Accepted nem con.
Franz
Franz Heymann
[snip]
> I must admit,
> that I do "love" "instigating"
> phonies and sociopaths
> into showing their true colors.
In other words, you are a troll.
Franz
Aleksandr Timofeev
> > There have been many posts
> > asserting that General Relativity
> > is essential to the GPS system.
>
>
> [snip]
>
> Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
> You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between clocks
> and gravitational fields, which is a GR effcct.
>
Franz Heymann, Don't advertise your ignorance so publicly.
Now Franz Heymann get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat
for eating.
Bon appetit.
You are unaware, amongst other things, of the interrelations between
principles of operation of VLBI radio telescopes for example:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e16a4a22.0312180708.7fdbb738%40posting.google.com
=============================================================
From: a_n_ti...@my-deja.com (Aleksandr Timofeev)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Subject: Re: Gravitation and Maxwell's Electrodynamics, BOUNDARY
CONDITIONS
Date: 18 Dec 2003 07:08:49 -0800
[snip]
"
> Fourthly, a macroscopic radio wave is the wavefunction of an
> extremely large assembly of photons, all coherently sharing the
> same wave function. Detecting one photon at one of the antennae
> simultaneously with the detection of another (coherent) photon at
> another antenna is then possible.
"
Yours idea Franz about equivalence of a shared WAVE FUNCTION
for "photons" and electromagnetic wave physically IS ABSURD.
The wave of probability (WAVE FUNCTION) spread in space
similarly to electromagnetic waves does not exist in the Nature.
This extremely CRASY speculative chimera could be born
in Franz Heymann head only. >;^)
" Anyone who can prove that "the wave of probability (WAVE
FUNCTION) spread in space similarly to electromagnetic waves "
has a sure fire ticket to Stockholm to collect his Nobel Prize."
Bob Kolker
> >
> > > I will say no more on this topic for now, so you are welcome to a field
> > > day slating me if you wish.
> >
> >
> > I "wish."
>
> You did not succeed
I "wish." again. >;^)
> I have no further interest in bantering with you at present, since I have
> made myself clear as long ago as the time I produced those snippets which
> you quoted without understanding their content
>
> Franz Heymann
Now Franz Heymann get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat
for
eating.
Bon appetit.
--
Aleksandr Timofeev
=============================================================
Tom Potter
It is interesting to see that "Franz Heymann"
is ignorant of the fact that my post
exposed the urban myths, and outright mistakes
in the references used by some
to try to establish a dependence of the GPS on GR.
If my post is wrong,
they best way to prove it,
is not to post a laundry list of references
that someone has not read, or does not comprehend,
but to attack the points I am in error on.
Any ignorant or prejudiced asshole
can make up a laundry list of references.
Aleksandr Timofeev
> > There have been many posts
> > asserting that General Relativity
> > is essential to the GPS system.
>
Tom Potter
As can be seen, "Franz Heymann", like "EjP",
was completely fooled by the article in question,
or did not have the equipment to comprehend
the flaws in the article.
The article is full of holes.
I suspect that many people, like "Franz Heymann", like "EjP",
are unable to see the error,
because they are bambozzled by the GR babble.
Of course, it may be that "Franz Heymann"
has a reading comprehension problem,
and does not comprehend what he reads,
in which case I sympathize with him.
Tom Potter
You might say I run a sting operation
to expose phonies and sociopaths,
so the good folks will know who they are,
and not be bothered by their anti-social behavior.
Sam Wormley
>
> It is interesting to see that "Franz Heymann"
> is ignorant of the fact that my post
> exposed the urban myths, and outright mistakes
> in the references used by some
> to try to establish a dependence of the GPS on GR.
>
Potter has serious psychological problems. He doesn't understand the
basic principles of orbital mechanics and relativity in the GPS. He
has no ideas of the error sources and their mitigation... how could he?
Look at it abominable web site--he can't even understand simple Newtonian
mechanics. The following references will give most readers the basic
idea if the importance of relativistic corrections necessary for the
precision accuracy of GPS.
Tom Potter
As can be seen,
"Franz Heymann" admits defeat on all fronts,
and resorts to the standard tactic of a bitter loser,
childish, low class ad hominem.
Tom Potter
"Franz Heymann" is right!
There is no way I would have sex with you guys.
I have nothing against "fucking imbeciles",
but I am strictly heterosexual.
Sam Wormley
>
> You might say I run a sting operation
> to expose phonies and sociopaths,
> so the good folks will know who they are,
> and not be bothered by their anti-social behavior.
>
One might and I do say that Potter has serious psychological problems.
Sam Wormley
Tom Potter wrote:
>
> You might say I run a sting operation
> to expose phonies and sociopaths,
> so the good folks will know who they are,
> and not be bothered by their anti-social behavior.
>
One might and I do say that Potter has serious psychological problems.
He doesn't understand the basic principles of orbital mechanics and
relativity in the GPS. He has no ideas of the error sources and their
mitigation... how could he? Look at his abominable web site--he can't
Tom Potter
As can be seen, Sam Wormly
is unable to comprehend that the purpose of my article
was to expose the phony references used by him and a few others,
in an effort to assert that GR was essential to the GPS system.
For example, the Neil Ashby article that Wormly
is always referencing is full of holes.
I suspect that many people, like Wormly
are unable to see the error,
because they are bambozzled by the GR babble.
Of course the problem could be that Wormly
has a reading comprehension problem,
and cannot comprehend what he reads,
or maybe he posts these references without reading
or comprehending them..
But all sarcasm aside,
GR is a Tower of Babel,
and when someone makes a link between GR and
their agenda, they are able to capture the phonies
who want to appear intelligent,
and they are able to bamboozle the people
whose minds blank out when things
are made to appear complicated.
If I have made any mistakes in my article,
the rational, intelligent, moral thing to do,
would be to aggressively attack the points
I am in error on, not comtinue to post
the same useless references over and over,
and attack the messenger.
Tom Potter
See what I mean?
"Dirk Van de moortel" gets his jollies,
because he thinks that he is treating someone like "dog shit".
I suggest that anyone who maintains a web page
designed to "shit" on folks,
and gets their jollies when they think that
they are treating someone like "dog shit",
is a sociopath, and should be watched closely.
(Especially around children and small animals.)
Tom Potter
Hey "Michael Varney"!
Now that I have you posting from your edu account,
why not keep it up??????
Are you afraid that if you post too much trash
on the edu account, that you will lose the account,
and maybe your job????
It looks to me like
Harris, Vajk, Archimedes Plutonium, Hammond, brown, and "others",
forced you to use a phony name, and non-edu account.
Face the facts Varney,
you had better clean up your act,
or you will be operating the fry machine at McDonalds.
Sam Wormley
>
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:3FE452BE...@mchsi.com...
> >
> > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
> >
> > "General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Neil Ashby
> > http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html
> > http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
> >
> > "General Relativity in the Global Positioning System" by Clifford M. Will
> > http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
> > http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html#Relativity
> >
> > Crank Information
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tom+Potter%22+site%3Awww.crank.net
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Aretiche
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher1
>
> As can be seen, Sam Wormly
> is unable to comprehend that the purpose of my article
> was to expose the phony references used by him and a few others,
> in an effort to assert that GR was essential to the GPS system.
>
Frankly, Potter, I've been over your web pages many times and read
your postings on USENET and my motivation to look at your numbers in
this last posting is not very high. You really ought to try to better
understand the references I posted for your benefit.
^^^^
Jim
>
>"Jim" <lose...@workformhome.com> wrote in message
>news:0717uvk2dgvusuafj...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:23:33 +0800, "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >There have been many posts
>> >asserting that General Relativity
>> >is essential to the GPS system.
>>
>> You are so silly.
>> But somewhat entertaining. :)
>> Keep up the good work.
>
>> (The replies to your posts are very helpful, thanks.)
>
>It is interesting to see that "Jim"
>considers factual information to be
>"silly" and "entertaining",
>and ad hominem to be "helpful".
>
>Hopefully, in time,
>he will do a 180 in his value system.
Another excellent example.
Thanks again.
Jim
EjP
Tom Potter wrote:
> "EjP" <nos...@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
> news:bs0da8$6o9$1...@info4.fnal.gov...
>
>>Tom Potter wrote:
>> >
>>
>>>(...snip Potter-drivel...)
>>
>> >
>>
>>>It is interesting to see that an oft quoted
>>>( By the GR pushers ) Neil Ashby states:
>>>"It is not easy right now to perform relativity tests using GPS
>>>because satellite clocks are actively corrected
>>>to within 1 microsecond of Universal Coordinated Time."
>>
>>The complete article is here
>>http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
>>
>>Your out-of-context quote is extremely misleading
>>in that if immediately follows the discussion
>>of a period when the system was run *unsynchronized*
>>for 20 days and relativitistic effects were
>>verified to better than 1% (within errors).
>>Because this totally invalidates the rest of
>>your "argument", you have conveniently chosen
>>to ignore it.
>>
>>You also miss a key distinction. The sentence
>>states that they can no longer perform
>>"relativity tests". What this means is
>>that because they now regularly synchronize the system,
>>it can no longer be used to *test* relativity at
>>the level of the 20 day test. This does NOT
>>mean that relativity is unimportant. Even with the
>>frequency that they synchronize the system, there
>>would be large errors if they did not correct for
>>relativity. Similarly, I do not claim my
>>FM radio is a "test of Maxwell's equations", even
>>though it would not work without them.
>>
>>Now, in typical Potter fashion you will call
>>me a "sociopath" for correctly pointing out that
>>you are an idiot and a troll.
>
>
> I suggest that the article is full of holes.
>
> For example the writer writes:
> ==============================
> "The atomic clock was first operated for about 20 days
> to measure its clock rate before turning on the synthesizer.
> The frequency measured during that interval was
> +442.5 parts in 10^12 faster than clocks on the ground;
> if left uncorrected this would have resulted
> in timing errors of about 38,000 nanoseconds per day."
> ======================================================
>
> Note that 442.5 parts in 10^12 in twenty days
> is 22 parts in 10^12 per day.
> ( 22 pico seconds, or .02 nanoseconds per day. )
>
This is a *frequency* shift, you moron. 442.5 parts in
10^12 is 442.5 parts in 10^12; it doesn't matter
whether you're counting over 20 days, 1 day, or a year.
Did you ever study *fractions* in school? Did you
go to school?
[Dirk, I hope you got this one!!]
> And note that as there are 86,400 x 10^9 nanoseconds per day,
> ( 24 * 60 * 60 * 1x10^9)
> that 38,000 nanoseconds per 86,400 x 10^9 nanoseconds,
> is 22 parts in 10^8
> NOT 22 parts in 10^12.
Why do you try to make a simple calculation complicated?
86400*(442E-12) = 3.8E-5 = 38 usec.
Readers are invited to do this simple calculation
themselves.
>
> In other words, the writer incorrectly states
> that a drift of 22 parts in 10^12 per day,
> would result in an error of 22 parts in 10^8 per day.
>
> I am thinking about posting copy
> from that (And other oft quoted articles)
> article in sci.physics under my own name,
> to see how the sci.physics Taliban
> react to me posting stuff like that.
>
That's right, anyone who points out your
trivial errors must be the Taliban, right?
> I am honored that "EjP"
> thinks that exposing obvious errors in articles,
> that are frequently used as references,
> is "Potter-drivel".
>
No, "Potter-drivel" is "Potter-drivel". There's
no need to devine it, because anyone who's
read this NG for a while knows exactly what it is.
> I suspect that many people, like "EjP",
> are unable to see the error,
> because they are bambozzled by the GR babble.
>
No, I, and others, are simply capable of simple
algebra, which is beyond you.
> Hopefully, "Potter-drivel" will become the standard phrase for
> "The Emperor has no clothes." observations.
>
No, "Potter-drivel" will never be any more than "Potter-drivel".
Sorry.
> Perhaps the problem is that "EjP"
> has a reading comprehension problem,
> as he read, and quoted from, the same paragraph,
> and did not comprehend what he read.
>
> I was disappointed to see that "EjP"
> is unable to comprehend that the periodic
> corrections made to the satellite clocks,
> is evidence of how the clocks in the satellites
> are performing with respect to a clock on the ground.
> This may be due to his reading comprehension problem,
> or perhaps his lack of understanding of physics and clocks.
>
> Of course, it could be,
> that a"EjP" is, as he suggests a sociopath,
^^^^^^^^^^
Does it bother you to be so stupid and so predictable
at the same time?
-E
> who was looking for an excuse to call someone
> "an idiot and a troll", and that truth and facts
> are not important to him.
>
> But all sarcasm aside,
> GR is a Tower of Babel,
> and when someone makes a link between GR and
> their agenda, they are able to capture the phonies
> who want to appear intelligent,
> and they are able to bamboozle the people
> whose minds blank out when things
> are made to appear complicated.
>
> The following terms have little, or nothing, to do with GPS,
> but they seemed to have worked for Neil Ashby,
> so I have thrown them in with the hope that they will bamboozle
> some of the more impressionable people like "EjP",
> and put them into a hypnotic state.
> ==================================
> Earth-Centered Inertial or ECI frame
> Time dilation of moving clocks
> The weak principle of equivalence
> free fall, gravitational frequency shifts
> The Sagnac effect
> time dilation arising from earth's spinning motion
> contributions arising from earth's non-sphericity
> gravitational equipotentials
> General Relativity (GR), coordinate time
> slow-motion, weak-field metric
> elapsed coordinate time
> earth's quadrupole potential, and space curvature
> =================================
Jim
>"Jim" <lose...@workfromhome.com> wrote in message
<snip>
>> >I must admit,
>> >that I do "love" "instigating"
>> >phonies and sociopaths
>> >into showing their true colors.
>>
>> Perhaps you should find some and try it.
>
>I don't have to "find" the sociopaths.
>There are ways of smoking them
>out of the wood work.
You wouldn't know a sociopath if one stared at you
in the mirror.
Jim
Bill
> "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
> news:bru90r$7m582$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > asserting that General Relativity
> > is essential to the GPS system.
>
> http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
The above site quotes;
"Airports use one GPS receiver at the control tower and one on the
approaching airplane. The two receivers are close together, which
cancels errors due prop....."
As an air traffic contoller who has worked at some of the major
airports in the last 25 years I can say this is a load of crap.
There is no GPS equipment based in any control tower in north america.
I don,t dispute GRs relavence wrt to GPS function. But this guy
doesn't have a clue when he states this.
Bill Vajk
> "Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote
> in message news:vuVEb.87264$wL2.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
>>AARGHH! Sorry, I should have remembered you prefer
>>the horses:
>> http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss2.html
>> http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss.html
>>My mistake. Won't happen again...
> See what I mean?
> "Dirk Van de moortel" gets his jollies,
> because he thinks that he is treating someone like "dog shit".
> I suggest that anyone who maintains a web page
> designed to "shit" on folks,
> and gets their jollies when they think that
> they are treating someone like "dog shit",
> is a sociopath, and should be watched closely.
> (Especially around children and small animals.)
> --
> Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
In general, Tom, I've made a practice of not replying
to your postings, but in this instance you happen to
be right on target.
Astute individuals have historically accepted the idea
that "if you never make a mistake, you're not doing
anything." Mistakes, as such, are part of the cost of
doing business, if one is actually doing business.
Dirk-the-jerk is a foolish idiot getting his jollies
out of trying to embarrass people. Hopefully this post
of mine will find a home on his web page as a clear
demonstration of what he is about--it sure isn't
"science."
Where are the "immortal fumbles" of Al Schwartz, Mike
Varney, Franz, and other lesser sociopaths of the in
gang in sci.physics? The newsgroup archives are littered
with them. For example, Dottie just wrote she believes
"cold water rises." Gee, Dottie, that must mean the
surface of the ocean is colder than deep water, right?
Mike Varney expressed and opinion that professors take
the time to come play crackpots in the sci.* newsgroups
in order to encourage students to study more. Schwartz
thinks railway tracks are worn more on one side because
of coriolis forces. And Franz..... Well lets just say
he's thoroughly textbook superficial on a really good
day till he talks about storms which "are circular in
nature so they'll last longer."
Dirk-the-jerk seeks personal acceptance of his otherwise
dreary self by people so pathetic that I can't be bothered
spitting on them. His web page isn't just a hobby, it is
the full glory of the man himself. What you see there is
what you get, 'there just ain't no more'.
Here you go, Dirk-the-jerk, I purposely gave you a
several nice bylines.
Sam Wormley
However, Bill, you've got to admit that most all of Potter's
posts are attempts to ridicule other posters.
Dirk Van de moortel
"EjP" <nos...@die.spammers.die> wrote in message news:bs1nls$g1a$1...@info4.fnal.gov...
>
>
> Tom Potter wrote:
[snip]
> > I suggest that the article is full of holes.
> >
> > For example the writer writes:
> > ==============================
> > "The atomic clock was first operated for about 20 days
> > to measure its clock rate before turning on the synthesizer.
> > The frequency measured during that interval was
> > +442.5 parts in 10^12 faster than clocks on the ground;
> > if left uncorrected this would have resulted
> > in timing errors of about 38,000 nanoseconds per day."
> > ======================================================
> >
> > Note that 442.5 parts in 10^12 in twenty days
> > is 22 parts in 10^12 per day.
> > ( 22 pico seconds, or .02 nanoseconds per day. )
> >
>
> This is a *frequency* shift, you moron. 442.5 parts in
> 10^12 is 442.5 parts in 10^12; it doesn't matter
> whether you're counting over 20 days, 1 day, or a year.
>
> Did you ever study *fractions* in school? Did you
> go to school?
>
> [Dirk, I hope you got this one!!]
You bet I've got this one :-)
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/FullHoles.html
Fresh from the Horse's Hole.
Dirk vdm
Bill Vajk
> "Michael Varney" <varney@colorado_no_spam.edu> wrote in message
> news:deVEb.2$Sk2...@news.uswest.net...
>>LOL! Cranks like you always resort to threats like this when you have
>> been publicly embarrassed. Harris did it, Vajk did it, Archimedes
>> Plutonium did it, Hammond did it, Brown did it, and many others.
>> They all lost. *smirk* You are not any better than they are.
>> You will lose as well. Hahahahahahahahaha!
> Hey "Michael Varney"!
> Now that I have you posting from your edu account,
> why not keep it up??????
> Are you afraid that if you post too much trash
> on the edu account, that you will lose the account,
> and maybe your job????
> It looks to me like
> Harris, Vajk, Archimedes Plutonium, Hammond, brown, and "others",
> forced you to use a phony name, and non-edu account.
Mike Varney has never really understood that "It ain't
over till the fat lady sings."
> Face the facts Varney,
> you had better clean up your act,
> or you will be operating the fry machine at McDonalds.
That can never happen because it would mean he'd be
performing honest labor. Don't you recognize the carnival
huckster mentality when you see it? You can take the boy
out of the carnival, but apparently even Mike can't get
the carnival out of the little boy within. No matter how
much education Mike Varney receives he'll never be able
to escape from himself, and he's forever the huckster.
Jan Panteltje
<swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in <3FE3DB17...@mchsi.com>:
>hanson wrote:
>>
>> What a victory party!
>> So, you the self-anointed counter parts to cranks and trolls, the ones
>> who imagine/feel to be the high c-Ranks that fulfill important t-Rolls
>> are congratulating each other here. ..ahahahhahaha....What a honor!
>> Before I congratulate you too, let me beg you to have the humble
>> insight that were it not for your cursed cranks and trolls you'd have
>> no raison d'etre at all.........ahahahahaha.........ahahahahahaha....
>> You all remind me of nano popes, utterly dependent on the existence
>> of the much mightier devil(s).....Merry Xmas....& CONGRATULATIONS!
>> ahahahahaha....ahahahanson
>>
>> PS: what continuously amazes me how little faith you masters
>> of physics have in your knowledge. Any little fart that passes
>> across you catechism evokes an immediate state of extreme
>> hysteria in you. Why are you so insecure? Don't bring up your
>> concerns for students now! They chuckle behind the back of you
>> fossils anyway......not me through....oh, no, I wouldn't dare.....a.......
>
>If there were no cranks and trolls, perhaps the discussions would be
>more about subtleties in theories or their consequences or what approximations
>to make in "back of the envelop calculations". This could be a much more
>productive environment for discussing and understanding physics.
You talking about string theory hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah
ho
Jan Panteltje
<t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in <bs0edc$816ki$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de>:
>
>"Jim" <lose...@workformhome.com> wrote in message
>news:0717uvk2dgvusuafj...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:23:33 +0800, "Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >There have been many posts
>> >asserting that General Relativity
>> >is essential to the GPS system.
>>
>> You are so silly.
>> But somewhat entertaining. :)
>> Keep up the good work.
>
>> (The replies to your posts are very helpful, thanks.)
>
>It is interesting to see that "Jim"
>considers factual information to be
>"silly" and "entertaining",
>and ad hominem to be "helpful".
>
>Hopefully, in time,
>he will do a 180 in his value system.
>
>--
>Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
Yes Tom, great post.
You post was 100% correct (maybe not the last few lines... hehe).
This discussion was done before many times in sci.astro, with Tom v.
Flanderen as participant.
Since Tom was actually part of the GPS development I trust his opinion before
anyone else here.
Tom mentioned that correction too.
It is rather sad, that Sam Wormly and some others dump links, where very
superficial data is actually, without really knowing the electronics involved
at all.
They 'bet on GR' and then scream at anyone who they THINK disagrees.
I can only hope Sam will one day start talking ONLY about what he really
knows about.
And for the other 'objectors', it is easy to scream along, but you are still
a stupid screamer.
I am no GPS expert, but I did read some tech papers, far more detailed
actually.
Now screamers, go work on fusion, we need fusion for clean energy.
Oh, maybe you better not... unless you change attitude.
Dirk Van de moortel
"Bill Vajk" <bill9...@hotmail.DITCHTHIS.com> wrote in message news:lPZEb.604627$Tr4.1576540@attbi_s03...
Bill, You have got it all wrong. I am providing a service
to these people. They love it. They need it. They thrive
on it. How else can you explain why they keep and keep
and keep and keep coming back, going down on their
knees and literally begging for it?
I noticed that you have an entry as well. Just one.
Would you like me to remove it?
I really wouldn't mind doing that if it annoys you.
Just say the word, and it's gone.
Cheers,
Dirk
Tom Potter
As can be seen by reading my posts,
I simply use the most effective social strategy,
"tit for tat".
When people treat me right,
I treat them right.
When people ridicule me or my comments,
I "ridicule" them and their comments.
As pointed out by Bill Vajk,
there is a small group of posters
who consistently demean other posters,
and 99% of my conflict is with this
small group of posters.
I call this group, the sci.physics Taliban,
and as can be seen,
most of them (As expected)
attacked me, rather than my message
in my most recent post about the relationship
of GR to GPS.
--
Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
===============
Sam Wormley
>
The one were Vajk claims potential energy increases for a falling body?
Cranks get pissed off when the errors of there posts are pointed
out in a public forum... they ought to do more homework before
embarrassing themselves so much and so often. 'Tis the season to
be jolly... Thanks Dirk for preserving these laughable moments!
Tom Potter
If you want to know about sociopaths
a good place to start would be the article by
Renato M.E. Sabbatini, PhD
at http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n07/doencas/ entitled:
"The Psychopath's Brain".
--
Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
===============
Pyriform
>> Hello crackpot. Yes... this is in fact the case.
>> http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
>
> The above site quotes;
> "Airports use one GPS receiver at the control tower and one on the
> approaching airplane. The two receivers are close together, which
> cancels errors due prop....."
>
> As an air traffic contoller who has worked at some of the major
> airports in the last 25 years I can say this is a load of crap.
> There is no GPS equipment based in any control tower in north america.
> I don,t dispute GRs relavence wrt to GPS function. But this guy
> doesn't have a clue when he states this.
The implication that such systems are in standard use was wrong. He
should have said that a number of GPS-based precision landing systems
are under development, and that some have been successfully trialled and
found to meet Category IIIC requirements. Such systems do indeed make
use of GPS equipment on the ground and in the aircraft (though I think
extreme precision necessitates the use of pseudolites, which might have
been a digression too far from the point of his article).
--
Pyriform
Tom Potter
I read and understand the references you posted.
That's why I wrote my article.
Did you ever read these references?
Did you understand them?
If you did read the references
and you do understand them,
it should be a simple matter for you
to shoot holes through my post.
It seems to me,
that a rational, intelligent, MORAL person
would discredit someone by attacking their
messages, rather than by attacking the person
by using references to the web sites such as crank.net.
It is stupid to comment on posts that
you do not read,
and are not motivated to read.
hanson
news:10719342...@evisp-news-01.ops.asmr-01.energis-idc.net...
> On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:16:11 GMT) it happened Sam Wormley
> <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in <3FE3DB17...@mchsi.com>:
>
> >hanson wrote:
> >>
> >> What a victory party!
> >> So, you the self-anointed counter parts to cranks and trolls, the ones
> >> who imagine/feel to be the high c-Ranks that fulfill important t-Rolls
> >> are congratulating each other here. ..ahahahhahaha....What a honor!
> >> Before I congratulate you too, let me beg you to have the humble
> >> insight that were it not for your cursed cranks and trolls you'd have
> >> no raison d'etre at all.........ahahahahaha.........ahahahahahaha....
> >> You all remind me of nano popes, utterly dependent on the existence
> >> of the much mightier devil(s).....Merry Xmas....& CONGRATULATIONS!
> >> ahahahahaha....ahahahanson
> >>
> >> PS: what continuously amazes me how little faith you masters
> >> of physics have in your knowledge. Any little fart that passes
> >> across you catechism evokes an immediate state of extreme
> >> hysteria in you. Why are you so insecure? Don't bring up your
> >> concerns for students now! They chuckle behind the back of you
> >> fossils anyway......not me through....oh, no, I wouldn't dare.....a.......
> >
> >If there were no cranks and trolls, perhaps the discussions would be
> >more about subtleties in theories or their consequences or what
> >approximations to make in "back of the envelop calculations".
> >This could be a much more productive environment for
> > discussing and understanding physics.
[Pantie]
> You talking about string theory
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahahahahaha
> ho
>
[hanson]
Yo, yep, Pantie,
Never mind the theory, I like your string. Fascinating!, particularly your
terminator "ho".
ahahahaha....hahanson
Pyriform
> I suspect that many people, like "Franz Heymann", like "EjP",
> are unable to see the error,
> because they are bambozzled by the GR babble.
And now that you have had time to read EjP's post pointing out that the
only error is the one *you* made with elementary arithmetic, may we now
look forward to a grovelling apology? Or are you just going to shut the
fuck up, since it is patently clear to everyone that you haven't a clue
what you are talking about?
--
Pyriform
Dirk Van de moortel
"Pyriform" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3fe48397$0$11169$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
He always shuts the fuck up when this happens.
Look at the deafening silence after
http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=Kh34b.9185$oQ7.4...@phobos.telenet-ops.be
Dirk Vdm
Bill Vajk
> Cranks get pissed off when the errors of there posts are pointed
> out in a public forum... they ought to do more homework before
> embarrassing themselves so much and so often.
For a long time I had thought you a sentient and rational man,
Sam. Sorry for my mistake. Turns out your purpose for being
here is stroking your own ego. As much ego masturbation as you've
been doing of late it must be a pathetic thing indeed.
Bill Vajk
> I noticed that you have an entry as well. Just one.
> Would you like me to remove it?
> I really wouldn't mind doing that if it annoys you.
> Just say the word, and it's gone.
> Cheers,
Dirk, I never opted into your little game and now here you
are, in a kindly mode suggesting I should beg and whine
if I want the entry removed. Isn't that a lot like the
playground bully twisting a kid's arm and saying, "I'll
let go if you say uncle"? What was the origin of the bully's
right to twist the kid's arm in the first place? Public posts
made to usenet are made with the premise of interactive
discussions, not that of singling out individuals to hold
them up for continuing ridicule regardless of their ideas.
It is evident from my article that I am annoyed at the entire
concept. Im annoyed too at the omissions I've mentioned because
if you're going to do something honestly, even where I disagree
with the premise, honesty doesn't permit such favoritism. So it
shows clearly that the web page has personalities and politics
wrapped up in it to the exclusion of your stated premise.
All that's true whether one of my articles is there or not.
Where's the positive effect, if there's supposed to be one, do
you suppose? And what's the actual cost to participants, do you
suppose. Has it stopped any of the crackpots from promoting
their views? Has it perhaps encouraged some to aspire to even
greater heights?
Needless to say, I don't see the dynamic as you do and I hope
you'll give what I've said some serious consideration. We have
enough of a problem in sci.physics with several old farts
and an ineffectual young grad student demeaning others to
achieve self gratification where no other form remains available
to them. Personally I don't think it a good idea to add to that
burden, especially when better avenues to improve the dialog
here exist.
It is obvious that the dialog in sci.physics is in real need
of significant improvement.
Sam Wormley
>
> For a long time I had thought you a sentient and rational man,
> Sam. Sorry for my mistake. Turns out your purpose for being
> here is stroking your own ego. As much ego masturbation as you've
> been doing of late it must be a pathetic thing indeed.
Back to the Thread
Sam Wormley
>
> It is obvious that the dialog in sci.physics is in real need
> of significant improvement.
Here Bill--While you are waiting for significant improvement:
http://www.ashland.edu/ecard/adm_card_ver1_web.html
Click as instructed
Dirk Van de moortel
"Bill Vajk" <bill9...@hotmail.DITCHTHIS.com> wrote in message news:fn0Fb.605958$Tr4.1579120@attbi_s03...
> Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
>
> > I noticed that you have an entry as well. Just one.
> > Would you like me to remove it?
> > I really wouldn't mind doing that if it annoys you.
> > Just say the word, and it's gone.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> Dirk, I never opted into your little game and now here you
> are, in a kindly mode suggesting I should beg and whine
> if I want the entry removed.
You didn't have to beg and whine.
I had a second look at the entry. By itself it does not
really qualify as a school book example of the combination
of arrogance and ignorance, which is why I offered to
remove it earlier today.
But I just have taken a close look at your replies to the
replies you got, and I recall that I -at the time- decided to
include this entry, after having read the entire thread.
So I have now decided to keep it as a nice example of
A&I after all. Having read just now the remainder of
your previous message to Potter had some influence on
this decision.
Dirk Vdm
Richard Henry
"Tom Potter" <t...@hotsheet.com> wrote in message
news:bs1j00$8lu5r$1...@ID-188019.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> Any ignorant or prejudiced asshole
> can make up a laundry list of references.
It's even easier to make up a laundry list of mistakes.
Jan Panteltje
<han...@quick.net> wrote in
<Om%Eb.12328$0s2...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>:
Dear Hairy Handsome, thank you sooooooooho much for the quick reply.
Theory is important though, but it is a bit like dreams, reality will always
be more fun.
>
Franz Heymann
[snip]
And Franz..... Well lets just say
> he's thoroughly textbook superficial on a really good
> day
Yes. Of course he is "textbook superficial" about topics which are not in
his specific field.
Aren't you?
> till he talks about storms which "are circular in
> nature so they'll last longer."
How about polishing your sense of humour?
And I hope you no longer lie about observations which you claim to have
done when you have done no such thing.
Franz.
Franz Heymann
[snip]
> The frequency measured during that interval was
> +442.5 parts in 10^12 faster than clocks on the ground;
> if left uncorrected this would have resulted
> in timing errors of about 38,000 nanoseconds per day."
> ======================================================
>
> Note that 442.5 parts in 10^12 in twenty days
> is 22 parts in 10^12 per day.
> ( 22 pico seconds, or .02 nanoseconds per day. )
Tom, we are still waiting for an admission that you mistook arses for elbows
in that little piece above,
And do not omit to follow it up with an abject apology to EjP
Franz
Mu-Pi
>
> "Franz Heymann" <notfranz...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bs1ee2$quu$3...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
> > news:3FE319EF...@hate.spam.net...
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > Fucking imbecile.
> >
> > It is presumptious on your part in stating that Potter is capable of
doing
> > so.
>
> "Franz Heymann" is right!
> There is no way I would have sex with you guys.
>
> I have nothing against "fucking imbeciles",
> but I am strictly heterosexual.
That is not what your son Robert told me.
http://www.rainbows-end-publish.com/why,_daddy,_why.htm
Mu-Pi
"Bill Vajk" <bill9...@hotmail.DITCHTHIS.com> wrote in message
news:lPZEb.604627$Tr4.1576540@attbi_s03...
>
> > "Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com>
wrote
> > in message news:vuVEb.87264$wL2.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
>
> >>AARGHH! Sorry, I should have remembered you prefer
> >>the horses:
> >> http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss2.html
> >> http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HorseAss.html
> >>My mistake. Won't happen again...
>
> > See what I mean?
> > "Dirk Van de moortel" gets his jollies,
> > because he thinks that he is treating someone like "dog shit".
>
> > I suggest that anyone who maintains a web page
> > designed to "shit" on folks,
> > and gets their jollies when they think that
> > they are treating someone like "dog shit",
> > is a sociopath, and should be watched closely.
> > (Especially around children and small animals.)
>
> > --
> > Tom Potter http://tompotter.us
>
> In general, Tom, I've made a practice of not replying
> to your postings, but in this instance you happen to
> be right on target.
Hello Crackpot.
>
> Where are the "immortal fumbles" of Al Schwartz, Mike
> Varney, Franz
We either don't make them, or quickly admit when do that we were wrong and
learn from our errors.
I am sure that Dirk would not post your fumbles if you were to have admitted
that you made an error and learned from your mistake.
This seems unlikely however.
>
> Mike Varney expressed and opinion that professors take
> the time to come play crackpots in the sci.* newsgroups
> in order to encourage students to study more.
Obviously ironic humor is beyond your grasp. And in any case, how do you
know they do not? *smirk*
Go away Vajk, you are a pathetic loser.
Michael Varney
If that happens, there are a few more that I can point out to you that you
can add in its place.