Best Out of Box .45 ACP
IRON EQUALIZER
accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
IronEqualizer
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Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.com
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Lance LaFrinier
"IRON EQUALIZER" <ironeq...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atgbug$l9e$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
# accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
# Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
#
If you wanted "the best" you wouldn't be looking at a Kimber...Generally
when a person seeks "the best" in anything, money is not a consideration.
What's the most you can afford?
Lance
Kenneth Coney
IRON EQUALIZER wrote:
> ...
Kevin Baker
"IRON EQUALIZER" asked:
# In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP?
# Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
My experience is extremely limited.
My Kimber Stainless Classic has the finest out-of-the-box trigger I've ever
pulled, hits where the sights line up, groups about 4" at 50 yards off a
rest using Speer hardball, and the only times it hangs up on me is when I
haven't cleaned it or lubed it in WAY too long.
Caveat: Use good quality mags - Chip McCormick or Wilson Combat -
regardless of WHAT you buy.
--
Kevin
The Constitution may not be the greatest work ever set to paper,
but it beats what the government is using now.
Trenton G. Twining
#
# In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
# accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
# Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
#
The all-around best OOTB .45, in the popular price range (at the top end
of that range though) in my - limited - experience is the Kimber
polymer-stainless. The grip is slightly wider than on a single-stack
1911 pattern pistol. And that makes a positive difference. For
whatever combination of reasons I shoot this pistol better than any
other large caliber pistol. It also feeds more reliably than most other
1911 patterns do when new. OTOH - magazines are hideous expensive -
literaly an order of magnitude over the price of a single-stack 1911
mag. I tried one feeling safe in the knowledge that it was 'way too
expensive for me. And bought one.
--
Trenton G. Twining
"He has affected to render the military independant of, &
superior to the civil power."
- Thos. Jefferson
Nordic
required, and cost is very reasonable.
--
dbfg
Nordic
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but hollow-points expand on impact!
They who laugh last, think slowest!
Life is too short to not throttle the Hell out of it!
gundude
> ...
Glock21
Harvey4066
the 2500 rounds I have put through it not one problem.
Harvey C. Scobie
Radcliff, KY
Jerry Hollombe
# In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
# accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
# Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Depends somewhat on intended use. I've been very happy with my Colt 1991
Commander. The Glock 21 is also excellent, but somewhat bulky.
--
Jerry Hollombe, Webmaster
http://thegarret.info/
http://www.glaam.us.mensa.org/
Jesse Curry
> ...
I see that we have some kimber fans out there. Well, they are not bad,
but STI,Springfeild Custom, and high end Wilson Combat 1911's are in
my opinion some of the best 1911 on the market. And by the way, a
Glock 21 is NOT a 1911 style pistol.
TJ
TJ
My web page below
http://community.webtv.net/terry0701/AR15AK47twogreat
Dan Asper
Dan Asper
Columbus, OH
IRON EQUALIZER <ironeq...@aol.com> wrote in message
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> ...
Dennis Moore
Only question is whether to get the large frame Glock 21 or the
single stack Glock 36.
Dennis
"gundude" <gun...@slingshot.com> wrote in message
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> ...
ih8tjffgordn
class this year. Liked it real well, shot good, better than my 625...I
thought. Finished the service class last Sunday and just for kicks took the
625 to the range today with 120 rounds of the load I'd been using in the
Kimber and shot the best groups I've ever shot with the 625. Both the
Kimber and the 625 are great guns. Good single stack mags can be bought
reasonably and the full moons don't get much cheaper. One thing I always
like about revolvers, (it wasn't mentioned in the original post) is they are
totally reliable. Pull the trigger, it goes boom, every time! Can't say
that for any Auto, moon clips loaded forever, can you do that with a mag??
Make your choice of good quality, and practice with it. Marc.
"Nordic" <nordi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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> ...
work
> ...
BJamesjr
If you want the absolute best and don't want to have to fiddle with it, then
pick a Wilson Combat or a Les Baer. The Springfields and Kimbers are very good
but can't be counted on to function perfectly out of the box. I know that a
lot of people will say that theirs worked perfectly, but I can tell you stories
from people whose guns did not work perfectly.
Now if you want to consider non-1911's:
I think it is a toss-up between the SIG P220 and the HK USP. The Glock is also
very good but not quite in the same league as the other 2.
Dennis Moore
The original post in this thread mentioned a Kimber. But did
not specify a 1911 type pistol. So no reason not to list a Glock.
Dennis
"Jesse Curry" <jess...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
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Big Mike
# gun...@slingshot.com (gundude) wrote in message news:<ati6h4$a37$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
# > ...
#
# I see that we have some kimber fans out there. Well, they are not bad,
# but STI,Springfeild Custom, and high end Wilson Combat 1911's are in
# my opinion some of the best 1911 on the market. And by the way, a
# Glock 21 is NOT a 1911 style pistol.
#
He said .45 ACP, not 1911. ;>
I own 37 1911 style pistols. If that's what you want then you can't
go wrong with Wilson (I own 2), Les Baer(1), or Kimber(1).
Springfield's can be hit and miss...I don't care about "out of the
box", I pretty much mess with everything, be it changing springs or
grips to building a pistol from the ground up. If it's from their
custom shop you usually can't go wrong. Avoid the V10's and anything
else ported!
The bulk of my 1911 "collection" are Springfield's(15) with Colt just
behind them (14)the other 4 I have are a Remington Rand, US&S, a
Singer, and an Essex frame with an AMT Longslide (modeled after
Arnie's piece in Terminator, except the laser was replaced by a
holosight a few years ago!).
Para Ord's are total crap...as bad as the auto ordinance heaps but not
as bad as the Vega's...the AMT's were no great piece of work either!
As much as I love the Colt's, they sadly are not known for "out of the
box" performance.
If you're not totally commted to a 1911, I'd also reccomend the Glock
30. Not as "bulky" as the 21 and in some respects I think it's the
almost perfect fighting handgun. You can get a good deal on them now
as most people are convinced that the skinny little 36 is the best
glock to have right now...(mine was a trade-in that the previous owner
gave up to get a 36...2 weeks of owning the 36 sent him back to see if
he could get back his 30!). Until the Glock the only 2 non-1911 45's
in my collection were a S&W 745 and a Taurus PT-945. Hence, I too once
believed that .45ACP = 1911. It was the Glock that really made me
change my mind though!
Mike
Steve Chan
# In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
# accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
# Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
As someone pointed out, the S&W 625 is as accurate and more
reliable than most 1911's costing up to twice as much ( 3" @ 50 yards
is not uncommon). The CZ-97b is a very accurate and comfortable gun,
but needs a SA trigger conversion to compete with 1911 triggers.
In the $900 price range, STI and Dan Wesson have been getting lots
and lots of praise for their 1911's. The STI especially, is a hand
fitted gun at a production line price.
If you want to go up to $1200, every Valtro owner I've heard of is
ecstatic with their gun.
Steve
Nordic
fast if not faster that an auto. Revolvers don't jam. stove-pipe, fail to
cycle, etc et al. Revolvers are a far sight less expensive and moon-clips
are about $4.00 for 8 clips. I love wheel-guns.
--
dbfg
Nordic
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but hollow-points expand on impact!
They who laugh last, think slowest!
Life is too short to not throttle the Hell out of it!
Kenneth Coney
but actually feels like it is recoiling less. More of a push than a jump.
BJamesjr wrote:
> ...
gundude
# but STI,Springfeild Custom, and high end Wilson Combat 1911's are in
# my opinion some of the best 1911 on the market. And by the way, a
# Glock 21 is NOT a 1911 style pistol.
Well, duh!!! But the starter of this thread didn't ask what is
the best 1911 out of the box, he asked what is the best .45 out of the
box.
Now before you excommunicate me for my blasphemy, understand that
I PREFER an optimized 1911 to any glock. By optimized, however, I mean
trigger job, barrel cutting and throating, ramp polishing, beavertail,
and a de-horn job...as a minimum. No 1911 I have ever handled out of
the box could live up to the reliability and no-snag outline of the
Glock 21. The Glock 21 is indeed a compromize, but a fair one, which I
have taken advantage of myself. For my stock 1911 to give me the
practical attributes a Glock 21 gives me, I'd have to start with a
Para-Ord, for the high capacity. Right there, the Para costs $100 more
than the Glock, and the reliability package from my favorite gunsmith
is going to cost me another $250. $50 for a beavertail, another $75 to
round off all the edges (if it is stainless), and stainless costs
another $50.
So, if there is an out of the box 1911 like that, great, but it
is still going to COST more that the Glock 21. So which is the best
buy? Some will say quality is always worth it, and they are not wrong.
But neither are they right in all circumstances. This fellow is likely
asking what is the best .45 out of the box because he recognizes that
he is unlikely to take the trouble to be a die hard 1911 follower and
get all the stuff done. Maybe he just can't afford much and wishes to
make his money count. Who knows? Only he can say.
And of course, we are all guilty here of a bias for handguns. If
I were to pick the truly best out of the box .45, then I'd have to say
my M1A1 Thompson SMG takes the cake.
Kenneth Coney
. (37?!?, I thought I was bad with 8 or so.)
Big Mike wrote:
> ...
Benson Wills
accuracy, reliability are all top notch.
--
E-mail replies: change 'blackhole' to 'usenet3'
weekendshooter
compared to a Glock or Sig.
bjam...@aol.com (BJamesjr) wrote in message news:<atkgpa$57h$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
> ...
jac...@tcainternet.com
EQUALIZER) wrote:
#In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
#accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
#Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
FWIW... I have owned 3 Colt 1911's. One was an early 70's Gold Cup,
one an early 80 Series, and the last was a Commander. They all shot OK
and were fairly reliable. Nothing special about any of them.
Recently, I decided I needed a new .45 and the hunt and research
began. I ended up with a Kimber Custom Eclipse II. It is a 5 in. bbl.
"Custom Shop" marked pistol and has ambidextrous safety, adjustable
Meprolight bar-dot sights, and extended mag-well. With 2 Wilson 47D
mags, my total cost was just about a grand. This is brand new. I've
had the flu almost since the day I got the pistol and haven't fired it
as yet. However, it has a beautiful fit and finish, and a very nice
trigger... smooth and light and breaks nicely.
I just couldn't justify the $2500+ and the waiting period for the
"name" .45's. So far, I love the pistol. If it performs as good as
most of the things I've read and heard about them, I consider it a
bargain.
pointman
My 45 experiences over the past 15 years...
Of 4 Springfields they all broke in nicely after 750-1000 rounds but 3
needed their extractors replaced within 500 rounds (and 1 I replaced
it before it failed). The bushingless models from Springfield seem to
take more break-in. Springfields are great as long as you remember to
get a Wilson heavy duty extractor ordered before unboxing it. Also,
Springfield doesn't seem capable of staking a front sight on quite
straight. But Springfield's Custom shop pieces don't seem to suffer
these drawbacks...
My Kimbers have been great, 1500+ rounds without a hitch, misfire or
misfeed that was the guns fault (tight chambers so I've had some
problems with reloads but none with factory ammo) in any of them. My
4" lightweight did take about 500 rounds to settle in and the groups
tighten up. (bushingless, of course). My next aquisition will be the
Eclipse 2 actually. (Kimber's are also US made if that's a factor).
The Colt Enhanced I had was a very nice piece but the blue didn't hold
up well to daily carry. It's too bad but I don't believe they offer
the Enhanced models any longer.
The Colt 1991A1 Officers was ok but didn't shoot as well as I thought
it should have been capable of, and it was a bit finicky on ammo. I
got rid of it after the groups hadn't tightened up after about 1100
rounds. It was an ok piece but I didn't trust it as a daily carry arm
and it wasn't a fun shooter. bye-bye..
USP 45, probably the best out of the box shooter for accuracy and
reliability I've ever owned. And the Tactical is one sweat piece of
hardware... especially if you're interested in suppression ( the
Tactical w/ the Knight can rules). Too bad the thing is HUGE! (and
expensive).
The USP 45C is sweet, too. It is the same height/length as my carry
piece (Kimber 4" lightweight) and 1/16" thicker. Shoots, handles and
conceals very well.
Glock 21... I bought a police trade in Glock 21 and it was a POS
(circa 1992), but my buddy's new one was MUCH better. But they're just
way to darn big in the grip (and I'm not a small person by any means)
the 30's are much nicer. (I didn't much care for the 20 either, but it
sure held up better than the Delta Elite under the abuse of the 10mm
full power loads). The rear sights on all 3, the 2-21's and the 20,
fell off though (Glock promptly fixed).
Sig 220 is a great weapon. After the Kimber and USP, the 220 is
probably my favorite 45 to shoot. One thing about the 220 though, it's
recoil is weird compared to a USP/S&W or 1911... weird, not bad, just
different... (sort of like going from shooting a FAL to shooting a G3,
only in handguns). Sig's new compacts, I won't touch after some
quality control issues with their newest compact 9mm...ouch.
The Glock 30's are accurate and reliable and much more fun (and
comfortable) to shoot than the 36's which can be downright abusive. If
I wasn't completely satisfied with my 4" Kimber I'd be seriously
considering the 30 (or 457 or USP 45C)
Smith & Wesson 457, very reliable out of the box and accurate. Out of
the box my Mother (it's hers, wasn't going to turn her loose cocked
and locked and she really hates glocks even though she shoots them
well) shot 6x-9 with the first clip (25ft) if that says anything about
how easy they are to shoot. She traded off a PPK/S and wasn't
disappointed (the PPK/S jammed regularly on BALL, she simply didn't
trust it even after a throat relieve/polish fixed the jamming).
I'm quite critical of S&W autos and except for a particularly sweat
745 (old stainless, single action, wood grips) and a 39, I hate them.
But this 457 is a great shooter. This is a plain-jane middle sized
piece on par with a Commander, Glock 30 or HK 45C... This is probably
one of the least expensive 45's on the market worth dragging home (or
this one was 3+ years ago, time and quality control changes
unfortunately).
Baer, Wilson, Brown... worth every penny if you have a wheelbarrow of
them according to people I know that choose to afford them. I'm
especially fond of the Wilson CQB and will likely add one to my
collection in the future.
AutoOrd/Thompson, Rock Island, Charles Daley, Dan Wesson, Norico and
others of their ilk; fine if you WANT to rebuild it (and in some
cases, Thompson in particular, weld and redrill the pin holes
STRAIGHT). Unmodified, things start breaking or falling off within
500-1000 or so rounds on most of these I've owned, worked on or had
friends/family who have purchased... If it were just the extractor
(ala Springfield) I would be ok with that since an extractor is a
"consumable" part on a 1911. But broken sears, disconnectors; plunger
tubes falling off, loose grip bushings.. no thanks.
There are a lot of good 45's on the market varying in price from
$450-ish to over $3k. Most of the reputable manufacturers have good
products. The main place I warn everyone to keep clear of is the cheap
1911 market. After that, the hardest part is deciding which to add to
the collection first(or next), especially since most of us can't buy
them all at once...(some crap about a mortage?).
Good luck!
pm
Andrew Colglazier
(gundude) writes:
# So, if there is an out of the box 1911 like that, great, but it
#is still going to COST more that the Glock 21. So which is the best
#buy? Some will say quality is always worth it, and they are not wrong.
#But neither are they right in all circumstances.
I agree with this. I carry and shoot in competition my lightly customized G21,
and am really enjoying it. It has the potential for hi-capacity, but even
without it still beats a standard 1911 by 2-3 rounds. It has a good trigger
(after a little work by a qualified Glocksmith like T.R. Graham). It is dead
reliable, no grip or thumb safety to mess with. With the addition of some
decent sights (Heinie straight eight tritiums) and a Comp-Tac Gurkha holster,
it is a very tough weapon to beat in terms of shootability. Sure, it's a
little thicker than a 1911, but if I (with my small hands) can shoot it well,
anyone can. And I carry it concealed every day.
Andrew "FF"
Freedom Fetishist and
Plain 'Ol Citizen
MyDogReese
news:atndso$b5e$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu:
# ironeq...@aol.com (IRON EQUALIZER) wrote in message
# news:<atgbug$l9e$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
# > ...
#
# My 45 experiences over the past 15 years...
#
I concur with most, if not all, of the pointman's comments.
I have a Sig 220 (stainless) that is heavier than most and has full-length
guide rails. Most accurate out-of-the-box 45 I own. Next is mt H&K USP
Tactical. Tactical holds 10+1 rounds, too. On a good day at the range, I
can't tell them apart from the targets. Both make one 2 inch hole at 15
yards (offhand) with a full magazine (Sig 8+1, H&K 10+1).
Neither of these DA/SA firearms compares with my Wilson Combat or Kimber
Custom Shop 1911s in terms of precise accuracy, but they are half the
price. I am having a Caspian 1911 made for me by a favored gunsmith with
all the juicy parts and options that should shoot under 1/2" at 25 yards.
But, because of all the tweaking, I wouldn't carry it or depend upon it for
my life (unless I had to). I keep the Sig 220 in my nightstand becasue at
3:00 AM, I don't want to be fumbling with safeties, if I need to use it. I
guess that is the final arbiter of my feelings.
--
Yale (REPLY: Remove ".NOT-ME and .invalid" from ID)
* * * *
"There is a serious tendency toward capitalism by the well-to-do peasants."
-- Mao
Tianyu Ching
Nyah.
# -----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Hollombe
<atne50$b7p$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>:
# ... I carry and shoot in competition my lightly
# customized G21, and am really enjoying it. ... Sure, it's a little
# thicker than a 1911, but if I (with my small hands) can shoot it well,
# anyone can. And I carry it concealed every day.
My wife couldn't shoot my G21. The grip was simply too big for her small
hands and the gun kept stovepiping. (She got _very_ good at the tap-rack-
bang drill). Finally got her a G19 and the problems went away.
--
Jerry Hollombe, Webmaster
http://thegarret.info/
http://www.glaam.us.mensa.org/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Colglazier
Hollombe) writes:
#My wife couldn't shoot my G21. The grip was simply too big for her small
#hands and the gun kept stovepiping. (She got _very_ good at the tap-rack-
#bang drill). Finally got her a G19 and the problems went away.
#
I'm glad you found an alternative. I'll bet she could have shot it, however,
with a little training. My wife loves mine! If I didn't keep it on me all the
time, she'd be making off with it, I have no doubt........
Andrew "FF"
Freedom Fetishist and
Plain 'Ol Citizen
Kenneth Coney
one an early 80 Series, and the last was a Commander. They all shot OK
and were fairly reliable. Nothing special about any of them."
None of them were 1911s. But your mistake is forgiven. They are all 1911A1 variants.
jac...@tcainternet.com wrote:
> ...
jac...@tcainternet.com
<sup...@visuallink.com> wrote:
> ...
Scuz me. Maybe I should have included the serial numbers for better
edification for the original poster. I truely hope my post didn't
cause any undue problems, since you are entirely correct. Sorry if my
post was misleading. I'm new here and I didn't know people picked nits
so closely. I'll post more carefully in the future. Please accept my
sincere apology for my completely false information.
Robert Blanchette
Massad Ayoob wrote an article in Backwoods Home Magazine recommending this
pistol. It is his department's issue weapon. You don't get a much better
recommendation than that. I bought mine new for less than $300. That leaves
a lot of money left over for magazines, holsters and ammo. I have put
thousands of rounds through mine and it still shoots great and looks brand
new. You simply can't beat it.
Bob Blanchette
"Big Mike" <gunx...@military.com> wrote in message
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> ...
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> ...
Kenneth Coney
jac...@tcainternet.com wrote:
> ...
Mike Bott
--
Mike
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:39:12 +0000 (UTC), ironeq...@aol.com (IRON EQUALIZER)
wrote:
In your opinion what is the best out of the box .45ACP? This will include
accuracy trigger pull etc. I am considering a Kimber Custom Eclipse II.
Please no after a little gunsmithing suggestions. Thanks in advance.
IronEqualizer