!! Acorn Products - An Important Announcement !!
Steering Group
Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
developing the existing Acorn product business.
Further announcements will be made in due course.
--
Steering Group
Andrew Pontzen
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
Hooray! :)
--
Andrew Pontzen
Visit the CarrotSoft website! http://www.unicarrot.demon.co.uk/
Michael M Martin
Andrew Pontzen <and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> >
> > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> Hooray! :)
Thank you a lot
Three Cheers to you all.
Best Regards, Mick
--
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Michael Martin. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^^^Acorn Risc PC^^^|
| * * * http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/ * * * | Email and News by |
|^^^^^ Member of Clan Acorn. mma...@zetnet.co.uk^^^^^ | !Pluto |
|========================================================|===================|
Roger Hume
<URL:mailto:announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
>
Long live Acorn Desktops. The best of luck to you all !!
--
Roger Hume 01223 574404 or 332736 Acorn Risc PC With Strong Arm
Matthias Seifert
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar
Oh no! Not Peter Bondar again!
> to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and developing the
> existing Acorn product business.
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
--
_ _ | Acorn Risc PC, StrongARM @ 287 MHz
| | | _, _|__|_ |) ' _, , | 130 Mbyte RAM, >20 Gbyte HD
| | | / | | | |/\ | / | / \ | ------------------------------------
| | |_/\/|_/|_/|_/| |/|/\/|_/ \/ | Buy Acorn - 24 users can't be wrong!
Stuart Bell
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
Good news! All strength to your arm (sorry!). Things can only
be better than they would have been before Black Thursday.
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Victor Shears
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
A great start and IMHO the only sensible decision at this juncture.
Best of luck Peter I have a feeling that you will have a lot of hard work
ahead of you.
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
We will all await them with interest.
Cheers Vic
* ... WindowError:00F Unexplained error. Please tell us how it happened.
--
_ _ _ _ _ _
|_||_||_'| ||\||_ | VIC SHEARS, Maidstone, Kent Tel 01622 686019
: :: \:_::_:: ::_ : >>> vi...@argonet.co.uk <<< * ZFC A*
Soaring The Internet on an Acorn Risc PC with a StrongArm Processor
Mark Fraser
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
Bravo!
--
Whaddya say, Norm?
Well, I never met a beer I didn't drink. And down it goes.
______________________________________________________
|\ /| ark Fraser / mfr...@argonet.co.uk www.argonet.co.uk/users/mfraser
| \/ | Somerset / Using !Pluto on an Acorn RISC PC
| |____________/You know what the sig means!
Victor Shears
Well it looks like you have not pleased everybody folks :-).
Cheers Vic
* ... Insanity doesn't just run in my family; it practically gallops
Dave Cooper
<announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
>
>
Well back into saving mode.
Best wishes and I think Peter is a good choice
ie somebody both well known to us users and /industry/ alike.
Regards, Dave C.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ ______________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / StrongArm Risc Pc (586 PcCard) Clan & MAUG.
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | / ArgoRing.AcornRing.Interests-Comp.Sat.AV.SF
___________________________/ Classical music & Wine. d...@argonet.co.uk
Homepage (inc.free photos) http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dac/index.html
Matthias Seifert
> In article <ant25193...@steering-group.demon.co.uk>, Steering Group
> <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> >
> > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> >
> > Further announcements will be made in due course.
> >
> >
> Just bought a printer because of the /loss/ of Phoebe.
> Well back into saving mode.
> Best wishes and I think Peter is a good choice
> ie somebody both well known to us users and /industry/ alike.
Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
last hope for the future? Strange.
Tony Houghton
> Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> last hope for the future? Strange.
That's what I was thinking. He seems like a very nice man, and has
lots of exciting ideas, but not one of those ideas ever seemed to get
anywhere. OTOH that could be "old Acorn's" fault, and free from them
he might be able to see something through at last.
Andrew Pontzen
> Dave Cooper <d...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ant25193...@steering-group.demon.co.uk>, Steering Group
> > <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> > >
> > > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > > Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> > > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> > >
> > > Further announcements will be made in due course.
> > >
> > >
> > Just bought a printer because of the /loss/ of Phoebe.
>
> > Well back into saving mode.
>
> > Best wishes and I think Peter is a good choice
>
> > ie somebody both well known to us users and /industry/ alike.
>
> Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> last hope for the future? Strange.
>
/me feels this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
So the Risc PC was the end of Acorn, was it.
So why are you using one?
Who are you?
Where do you come from?
Dave Roberts
<URL:mailto:M.Se...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the
> shortcommings of Acorn in the past years?
Which shortcomings? Why were these his fault?
> Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter Bondar came and where Acorn is
> now?
You mean Acorn were still making desktop machines and they aren't now? Is
this PBs fault?
If you know something the rest of us don't, like details that PB
deliberately plotted the demise of Acorn Workstations or was secretly
controlling the entire company for his own personal agenda, then I think
you should tell us.
[Followups to misc]
--
Dave Roberts
Da...@pharpech.demon.co.uk
mrp...@leeds.ac.uk
Circle Software
<URL:mailto:M.Se...@t-online.de> wrote:
> > In article <ant25193...@steering-group.demon.co.uk>, Steering Group
> > <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> > >
> > > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > > Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> > > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> > >
> > > Further announcements will be made in due course.
> > >
> > >
> > Just bought a printer because of the /loss/ of Phoebe.
>
> > Well back into saving mode.
>
> > Best wishes and I think Peter is a good choice
>
> > ie somebody both well known to us users and /industry/ alike.
>
> Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> last hope for the future? Strange.
>
I think you may find that Peter's sudden departure form Acorn may
be because he had advanced warning of the way things were going.
o us, this had been sudden, but there must have been a lot
of talk at high levels about dropping the 'workstation' activity.
Peter is, in my opinion, just the man for the job.
All speed to you, Peter.
--
John Skingley.
lukestuts
to...@tcp.co.uk (Tony Houghton) wrote:
> In <6uiigj$orv$1...@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Matthias Seifert <M.Se...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> > Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> > of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> > Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> > last hope for the future? Strange.
>
> That's what I was thinking. He seems like a very nice man, and has
> lots of exciting ideas, but not one of those ideas ever seemed to get
> anywhere. OTOH that could be "old Acorn's" fault, and free from them
> he might be able to see something through at last.
Which one was Bondar? I think I saw him at AW97, but can someone post a
mugshot somewhere?
--
Luke Stutters,
Renegade Penguin,
Eureka disc editor,
and freelance journalist.
Clan Penguin rules - http://www.renegadepenguin.mcmail.com
Email me at luke...@mcmail.com if message address is different
****************************************************************
* Phone PENGUIN BBS - Hampshire's BEST Acorn BBS! *
* It's on 01705 254244 RINGBACK - you dial, let ring 2X, *
* hang up then phone back for a connection! Speeds up to 33k6! *
****************************************************************
RiscNet International
<URL:mailto:M.Se...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > Bondar
>
> Oh no! Not Peter Bondar again!
>
What do ya mean by that, Matthias ???
Or should i say it into your own language ??? - No problem for me.
> > to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and developing the
> > existing Acorn product business.
>
> > Further announcements will be made in due course.
>
This is the BEST new since the Black Thursday!
Cheers,
RingMaster Acorn Dealer WebRing
Simon Elzinga,
Datawave Nederland.
--
___ _ _ _ _
| _ (_)___ __| \| |___| |_ Weburl: http://www.riscnet.demon.nl
| / (_-</ _| .` / -_) _|
|_|_\_/__/\__|_|\_\___|\__| Email: r...@datawave.demon.nl
___ _ _ _ _
|_ _|_ _| |_ ___ _ _ _ _ __ _| |_(_)___ _ _ __ _| |
| || ' \ _/ -_) '_| ' \/ _` | _| / _ \ ' \/ _` | |
|___|_||_\__\___|_| |_||_\__,_|\__|_\___/_||_\__,_|_|
---
RiscNet International
> > <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> > >
> > > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> > >
>
> Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> of Acorn in the past years?
> Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> last hope for the future? Strange.
Also Peter Bondar takes assignments from bosses, so he is NOT guilty this time.
You should be glad that he is now the head-honcho of the new Acorn consortium,
together with all the other folks.
Otherwise the Phoebe and RiscOS4 wasn't so easy to be rescued, without those ones.
So don't be a moaner, Matthias Seiffert !!!
Cheers,
RingMaster Acorn Dealer WebRing,
Datawave Nederland,
Simon Elzinga.
RiscNet International
<URL:mailto:and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> M.Se...@t-online.de (Matthias Seifert) wrote:
>
> > Dave Cooper <d...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <ant25193...@steering-group.demon.co.uk>, Steering Group
> > > <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > > > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> > > >
> > > > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > > > Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> > > > developing the existing Acorn product business.
<snip>
> >
> > Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> > of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> > Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> > last hope for the future? Strange.
> >
> /me feels this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
He don't, Andrew.
>
> So the Risc PC was the end of Acorn, was it.
> So why are you using one?
> Who are you?
> Where do you come from?
>
Matthias Seifert is coming from germany.
Just to let ya know, Andrew.
Cheers,
RingMaster Acorn Dealer WebRing
--
Howard Cutler
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
Absolutely great news. Well done one and all.
Best of luck to Peter. May the force be with you..
I think we all look foreward to a future with RISCOS.
>
Cheers,
Adge
=============================================================================
** 200MHz 202MIPS Acorn RiscPC **
P133 Co-Processor running Win98Plus!
Howard Cutler adg...@adgecut.demon.co.uk
WWW: http://www.adgecut.demon.co.uk
=============================================================================
Roger Walters
<announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
Thanks for the information.
I hope that Peter Bondar and the steering group will be very successful and
that "Acorn" users (if we can still be called that) will continue to be able
to use the best.
Please go on keeping us informed.
--
__ __ __ __
|\ /| | | \ | | | Ś roger....@argonet.co.uk Ś
| \/ | |- | | |- |--| Ś-----------------------------Ś
| | |__ |__/ |__ | | Ś STRONGARMED RISC.PC!!!! Ś
Gareth Moore
lukestuts <luke...@mcmail.com> wrote:
> Which one was Bondar? I think I saw him at AW97, but can someone post a
> mugshot somewhere?
There are various pictures of Peter Bondar at Acorn World 1997 on my
32-bit Acorn Gaming web site. You can go to the precise page with the URL:
http://acorn-gaming.org.uk/AW97/PBandCC/
There's also a picture of Chris Cox doing an impression of Lara Croft...
Gareth
--
Gareth Moore Station Manager, Cambridge University Radio
Downing College, CB2 1DQ edi...@acorn-gaming.org.uk gl...@cam.ac.uk
32-bit Acorn Gaming WWW Pages http://www.acorn-gaming.org.uk/
====== The longest running regularly updated Acorn WWW magazine ======
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So the Risc PC was the end of Acorn, was it.
> So why are you using one?
> Who are you?
> Where do you come from?
>
Incidentally, I hope that the consortium gets Peter sorted with a RISCPC
ASAP! I'd hate him to continue doing his email using Wintel!
--
Andy: skyp...@bigfoot.com / http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk
Mike Kinghan
M.Se...@t-online.de (Matthias Seifert) wrote:
> Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > Bondar
>
> Oh no! Not Peter Bondar again!
>
Ah ha! __Futher__ evidence for my contention that `M.S', the implacable
denigrator of the Phoebe, is none other than __Bill Gates__. (cf my posts
c.s.a.programmer passim).
Rattled, eh Bill?
--
Mike Kinghan,
Turing Tools, 20 Don Bosco Close, Temple Cowley, Oxford OX4 2LD
Tel. 01865 438231
`If Ulysses is not worth reading, then life is not worth living' - James Joyce
The Levens Organisation Ltd.
implementation of the original RiscPC. This could be a *very* good thing.
TTFN
Benji Levens
Levens Software
--
_ ___ _ _ _
| | _____ _____ _ _ ___ / _ \ _ _ __ _ __ _ _ _ (_)___ __ _| |_(_)___ _ _
| |__/ -_) V / -_) ' \(_-< | (_) | '_/ _` / _` | ' \| (_-</ _` | _| / _ \ ' \
|____\___|\_/\___|_||_/__/ \___/|_| \__, \__,_|_||_|_/__/\__,_|\__|_\___/_||_|
|___/ lev...@levens.co.uk
Mike Kinghan
RiscNet International <r...@datawave.demon.nl> wrote:
[snip]
> So don't be a moaner, Matthias Seiffert !!!
>
>
Moaners are necessary. Not sufficient, but necessary.
--
Mike Kinghan,
Turing Tools, 20 Don Bosco Close, Temple Cowley, Oxford OX4 2LD
Tel. 01865 438231
`I may not practice what I preach, but God forbid I should preach what I
practice' - G.K.Chesterton
Matthias Seifert
> In article <92c6a38b48%and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Pontzen
> <URL:mailto:and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Group
> > > > <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> > > > > Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> > > > >
> > > > > The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> > > > > developing the existing Acorn product business.
> <snip>
> > >
> > > Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the
> > > shortcommings of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn
> > > stood when Peter Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the
> > > same person should be the last hope for the future? Strange.
> > >
> > /me feels this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
> He don't, Andrew.
Well, you may think so. But several emails I received the past days show
me that I know what I am talking about.
And why do _you_ believe that Peter Bondar is doing better in a new
company than he did at Acorn?
> > So the Risc PC was the end of Acorn, was it.
I never said this.
> > So why are you using one?
Because I like to do so.
> > Who are you?
Matthias Seifert - as you easily can find out if you try.
> > Where do you come from?
> >
> Matthias Seifert is coming from germany.
Wow, a VIP (very intelligent people).
> Just to let ya know, Andrew.
And don't forget to tell him, that you're comming from the Netherlands.
Just to let him know... ;-)
Phil Norman
M.Se...@t-online.de (Matthias Seifert) wrote:
> Well, you may think so. But several emails I received the past days show me
> that I know what I am talking about.
Thankyou. You've really brightened up my day.
Phil
Thomas Rankin
> In <6uiigj$orv$1...@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Matthias Seifert <M.Seifert@t-online.
de> wrote:
>
> > Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcomming
s
> > of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> > Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> > last hope for the future? Strange.
>
> That's what I was thinking. He seems like a very nice man, and has
> lots of exciting ideas, but not one of those ideas ever seemed to get
> anywhere. OTOH that could be "old Acorn's" fault, and free from them
> he might be able to see something through at last.
>
So being constantly told that your ideas maybe great, but they cost money
so therefore wont go anywhere.
I have a lot of respect to Mr. Bondar and wish him the best of luck.
Besides, who else would be able to nick back 1 or 2 of the old workstation
division, (including the 25 or so that seemed to vanish between him losing
his job and the division being disbanned).
--
I'm using ZapEmail's signature facility, but I haven't installed my own file
yet... maybe this will remind me.
Slam a revolving door today!
Manuel Timmers
<URL:mailto:and...@unicarrot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So the Risc PC was the end of Acorn, was it.
> So why are you using one?
> Who are you?
> Where do you come from?
>
Dear Andrew,
May I remind you that ATM the rescue and all things around ex-Acorn
are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
developpers things are still in vain.
Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
Regards,
Manuel
--
Manuel Timmers, StarLight Corp., email star...@innet.be
Personal WWW-pages at http://www.club.innet.be/~year0332/
StarLight Corp. WWW-pages at http://www.whib.be/starcorp
**** Acorn Risc OS Systems: Seeing is Believing! ****
Wayne Bagguley
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
Peter Bondar, and all the involded people, I worship the
ground you walk on, I am not worthy!
:-)
--
_
( _ _ http://www.majic12.demon.co.uk/
_)| |(_)(_/\_) snow...@majic12.demon.co.uk
Tim B
Manuel Timmers <star...@innet.be> wrote:
> Dear Andrew,
>
> May I remind you that ATM the rescue and all things around ex-Acorn
> are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
> all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
> developpers things are still in vain.
>
> Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
>
> Regards,
>
> Manuel
The answer is very simple...there are two reasons why the Phoebe rescue
is currently a UK operation.
1: Only UK people have come forwards
2: The meeting was held in the UK at very short notice, not even all UK
people could make it.
I am sure that the people concerned will be very willing to accept
assistance from people outside the UK...just as soon as those people get
in touch and offer the assistance.
Tim
Mark Gould
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
oo look!
A light at the end of the tunnel.
And now to RISC-OS 4 :)
--
Mark Gould
mark dot gould at argonet dot co dot uk
Sibelius, Pluto and Techwriter user.
A7000+ 24MB, DMI50, SC-88 & A3010 2MB, 120MHD (looking for an A4, cheap)
Matthias Seifert
[...]
> So being constantly told that your ideas maybe great, but they cost money
> so therefore wont go anywhere.
> I have a lot of respect to Mr. Bondar and wish him the best of luck.
> Besides, who else would be able to nick back 1 or 2 of the old
> workstation division, (including the 25 or so that seemed to vanish
> between him losing his job and the division being disbanned).
Well, for the ukp 800 per day Peter Bondar is demanding for his "work", I
believe you would get quite some people to do the job. Let's see how long
the supporters of Peter Bondar are able to pay him...
André van den Berg
Hereafter a translation of the text as used in our colourbrochure
regarding the RISC PC. All this and more in 'Phoenix'?
Wonderful.
Can anybody think of more USP's (marketing jargon for 'Unique Selling
Propositions')?
RISC OS, THE BEST WAY TO CONTROL A COMPUTER
Individuals?
It‘s sad to have to state that a society which is otherwise made up of
individuals has let itself be talked into accepting a complicated and
lower standard. In other words: level yourself downwards towards your
neighbour (or equally, your neighbour decides which car you must
drive). While all the time, there‘s computer with a genuinely intuitive
operating system, with which you can simply drop files from one
window into another as easily as if you‘re putting sugar-lumps in your
cup. Real multi-tasking, without ”clipboards• or ”finders•, and without
the need to close programs or directories.
Camels through the eye of a needle?
RISC technology (Reduced Instruction Set Computer), along with the
Acorn-developed RISC Operating System has been the basis of
ultra-fast Acorn computers ever since the introduction of the Acorn
Achimedes in 1987. Systems which are still way ahead of their time.
Acorn users observe with compassion the various discussions about the
quality of other GUI‘s (Graphical User Interfaces). Of course, every
Mac or Wintel PC can do what an Acorn can, butŒhow cumbersome
it all is, and with how much bother. Plug n‘ Play? Plug n‘ Pray! DTP-
Du Temps Perdu (Lost Time). It is only with extreme difficulty that a
camel will pass through the eye of a needleŒ..
Not Compatible?
”Acorn isn‘t compatible• is an oft heard argument- what‘s usually
being talked about here is the exchange of (often illegal) software. Very
understandable- Windows software is valuable- but at the same time
incomprehensible. Think about it- files from the various
word-processors aren‘t mutually exchangeable even, and if you install
the wrong driver for your video-card, then the computer is suddenly
incompatible. Files saved in WP 5.1 seem not to work with version 6.0-
so you lose hours of valuable time trying to solve virtually unsolvable
problems. With Acorn compatibility begins, however, where it should
with proper workstations- at filing level. You need to be able to read
GIF, TIFF, JPEG, MPEG, PBM, DXF, CSV, CGM, PostScript,
WordPerfect or RTF files, on Mac, Atari or DOS formatted disks- in
this way, you‘re not limited by ”lowest common denominator•
software. And that‘s possible, with a RISC PC! There are dozens of
high-quality Public Domain- ie, free- utilities which will convert
exotic file formats automatically. Many of these are actually
superfluous, since software publishers provide the filters themselves
(Photodesk: GIF, TIFF, JPEG and PhotoShop; Artworks: CorelDraw,
CorelXara and Adobe Illustrator; Impression Publisher: EPS, RTF and
WP). Even if there‘s not enough software. But what‘s the point in
having 30 word-processors if only one of them does the job? (around
200 companies develop software for Acorn, incidentally, producing
more than 300 high-quality packages, including spreadsheets, graphics
processors, educational software, databases, accounting programs,
Desktop Publishing programs as well as at least 12 word-processors-
one of which talks!- and Tex-compatible scientific programs).
Back in Time?
And if you really want to, you can go back in time: there are
PC486/586 cards available from around Dfl 750 (including VAT).
Invaluable if you need to use that one particular PC Program (for
example the NS Railway Planner, Elseviers Tax Almanac, or the ALH
Route Planner). MS Windows running in an Acorn window- it works,
really!
RSI( Repetitive Strain Injury)
The consequences of RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury- overuse of hand
and arm joints) were foreseen by Acorn long ago: the carefully
though-through desktop, the context-sensitive pop-up menu‘s and three
active mouse buttons- all these avoid many unnecessary screen miles,
as well as an excess of mouse clicks. And through the use of
anti-aliased outline screen fonts- which are completely smooth- an
8-point letter is legible: lengthy use of even a 14• monitor does not
mean eye-strain either (anti-aliasing means a four-times higher optical
resolution on screen! The Acorn RISC PC was after all developed in
conjunction with users and not by know-it-all techies on the basis of an
out-of-date blueprint and an ill-considered and un-ergonomic
viewpoint.
1,000 Windows
We can prove that an Acorn RISC PC is far ahead of its time and will
remain so for many years. Even if it were only running at the speed of a
Pentium 266, it would still be faster in useŒand even if there were
100 active programs and 1,000 windows open- there would be no
performance degradation!
Sound and Picture Standard
Acorn was already a multimedia machine when other manufacturers
had hardly heard the word. Working with real-time video was possible
years ago, and affordably too. There are no sound- or video-cards
susceptible to interference in a RISC PC. A programmable video
controller takes care of optimum performance with any type of
monitor: Acorn uses dual-ported 64 bit VRAM. As a result, graphics
are handled extremely quickly and easily. Window contents move
instantly on the screen, not just their outlines. Every RISC PC equipped
with such VRAM can reproduce 16.7 million colours, or work with a
1600 x 1200 pixel resolution. 16-bit, 8-channel stereo sound is
integrated into the system: this can be connected directly to a Hi Fi
amplifier, for instance. The PC-cards support Creative Labs
SoundBlaster standards.
Linear Memory
There are no speed-destroying stick-on solutions such as EMS, EMM,
QEMM-memory and so on with a RISC PC. No expensive video-cards
needed to improve speed, or to get round memory limitations. If you‘re
short of memory, just make the program‘s font or image-cache smaller
for instance. Memory can be expanded to 256 Mbytes, but multitasking
works comfortably with just 8Mbytes! Moreover, if you want to change
the number of colours or screen resolution, you do not need to
re-configure or switch off the computer. And even if the electricity
fails, your files will not be scattered all over the hard-disk (we know of
PC-users who needed more than a week to find their files again).
Modular Case
The robust housing of a RISC PC, manufactured from recyclable
material, is developed on a modular basis. You do not need to replace
the housing if you want to expand your system with CD-ROM players,
ZIP-drives or Syquest removable disks for instance: you can stack
seven-high on the original case. Backplanes for mounting SCSI
interfaces or Videodigitisers are obtainable in 2, 4 and 8 slot versions in
EuroCard format. You do not even need a screwdriver to open the case-
you can install a new (second) processor or expansion card in less than
a minute
The Price? No Problem!
If we hear someone say that they think a RISC PC is expensive (not
having realised that you often pay a lot more for a well-equipped
ordinary PC or Mac), our answer is always: ”Perhaps it is a lot of
money, but something which is worth that money over and over can
never be expensive‘•. There‘s a StrongARM-based RISC PC to be had
for as little as Dfl 3,095, including VAT.
Strong Arm
All the glowing tests and other reports were based on the ARM 600 and
700 processors, with which the RISC PC was already very fast. But a
short while ago, Digital Semiconductors- acquired by Intel- started
producing the 233MHz StrongArm, incorporating ARM Ltd‘s (a
subsidiary of Acorn) processor development. This processor is now
built in as standard, and increases the speed of the already fast RISC
PC by between 6 and 10 times! The RISC PC is now among the
Dhrystone Internet database top-ten , along with the DEC-Alpha
computers. Moreover, Oracle (the third-largest software company in
the world), Funai, Idea, Wyse and Philips recently signed licensing
contracts with Acorn for NC OS (”The Total Cost of
Ownership-Reducing Network Computer•). A licence agreement has
been signed with Citrix for Thin-Client networks. RISC OS is
chip-based and is fully multi-tasking. Advantages include: no
unnecessary hard-disk or memory use, does not need ”loading•, cannot
be deleted by mistake and is virus -immune. RISC OS programs are
compact (often no more than 800Kbyte), since many modules which
programmers need to refer to are built into the OS. A RISC PC is
environmentally-friendly: the ARM CPU uses only 0.3 Watts (Pentium
166: 11-15 Watts): actually, every right-thinking evironment
organisation ought to switch to AcornΠECD is a registered Acorn
software developer and has been working with Acorn since 1982. It
began with the Acorn Atom, then the BBC-B in 1983 and in 1987 the
Acorn Archimedes. We marketed software for all these models, from
the AXR1 (Atom Extension ROM) to the Beebtel and AIM (Acorn
Image Manager). The RISC PC was introduced at the beginning of
1994. As a result of our direct contacts with Acorn management, a well
as within the Research and Development department, we are always
up-to-date on the latest developments- something which we ensure our
clients benefit from. Drop by for a completely obligation-free
demonstration. We‘re open from Monday to Friday from 9.00a m to
5.30pm. You‘ll find us in Rijswijk at Patrijsweg 16, at exit 8 (Delft/
Nootdorp) of the A16 (Den Haag- Rotterdam). You use a hammer to
knock nails in with, not a chisel- if it becomes apparent that a particular
system isn‘t right for you, then we‘re happy to advise alternatives. We
do not have a fixed perspective- you‘ll find Compaq, IBM, Siemens/
Nixdorf and Acer and so on under our roof as well. And if UNIX or
Windows is better for you, then we‘ll say so. Clan Acorn was set up in
1994 to keep the more technically-inclined among Acorn-owners bang
up-to-date. Clan Acorn brings Acorn users closer to the people who
make Acorn computers. Clan members receive early information about
projects and new developments with which Acorn is involved, enables
the use of pre-release and beta products, special offers, and an easy way
to make your opinions about desirable developments heard. Acorn
publishes a ”Clan Newsletter• several times a year. New subscribers
receive a package containing inf ormation about Acorn‘s current plans
and developments, along with a few exclusive Clan memento‘s such as
a T-shirt, mousemat, enamelled lapel-badge with the Acorn logo and a
disk with utilities. Membership costs just £15.00, and for £5.00 extra
you‘ll also receive an exclusive Clan Acorn sweatshirt. Subscription
forms are available from us. There are five English-language Acorn
magazines: Acorn World, Acorn User, Archive, RISC User and Acorn
Publisher. We can give you the addresses- just ask. Computer! Totaal is
the HCC‘s (Hobby Computer Club) house-magazine- which has always
maintained a very positive attitude to Acorn and will continue to do so.
The HCC is made up of different user-groups and there is currently a
movement underway (see later) to found an Acorn User Group. The
HCC- days (usually held in November) are rightly famous: the existing
user group is normally present. Members of an HCC user group have
the right to their own stand in the User Group section. Cost of HCC
memb ership is DFl 68.00 per year for 11 issues, with DFl 5.00
discount for members of a user group. The Computer!Totaal magazine
is included in the price. Address (also Editorial): Computer!Totaal,
Postbus 5446, 2000 GK Haarlem. There is a proposal to found an
Acorn User Group within the HCC Federation of user-groups. This
would support all marketed Acorn systems. Users of the Acorn Atom,
Acorn BBC-B, Master 128, Acorn Electron, Acorn Archimedes 300,
400, 500 series, Acorn A3000, A5000 and the newest Acorn RISC PC
are all welcome. We advise owners of the Unix R260 computer to join
a Unix user group.
Many packages are free, or otherwise vary in price from DFl 100.00 to
700.00. Please request our extensive list.
We pre-load every Acorn RISC PC hard-disk with demonstration
versions of the above software, as well as with Public Domain and
shareware utilities, including PC/Mac/SUN/Atari/Amiga file converters
(text, bitmap and vector graphics -PDF-), in addition to a large number
of outline fonts. There is a 12-month guarantee covering labour and
parts.
3 Captions:
1) Journalist Jan Zandbergen in HP/ de Tijd:
”They‘ve been making wonderful computers in England for ages. The
computer is after all a British invention: the Americans only came
along later. The British Acorn Archimedes is the first computer with a
RISC processor. The machine beat IBM, Motorola and Apple‘s own
RISC processors by ten years•.
2) Network Solution
Acorn‘s Thin-client: DESKLITE (developed from the NC). Assisted by
the ICS (Independent Computer Architecture) Protocol and the Citrix
WinFrame software, Windows 95/98 software can now be used on
inexpensive Acorn terminals without a PC-card.
3) Extract from an e-mail from a former PC-user:
”I‘ve spent many pleasurable hours this past week designing letterheads
for third-parties and in doing this have discovered further possibilities
with ArtWorks, Photodesk, Draw, Publisher. They really work
amazingly well. The Acorn RISC PC is one of the best thing I‘ve ever
bought, if not the best•.
Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Andre van den Berg
ECD Computers Automatisering / Detachering
Patrijsweg 16
2289 EX Rijswijk / The Netherlands
Tel. +31(0)70 319 4343
Fax: +31(0)70 319 4963
VATNo: NL009507590B01
Acorn E-mail : ec...@xs4all.nl
ECD E-mail : a...@ecd.nl
PC E-mail : in...@ecd.nl
Detachering E-mail: detac...@ecd.nl
Homepage : http://www.ecd.nl
André van den Berg
> Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the shortcommings
> of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn stood when Peter
> Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same person should be the
> last hope for the future? Strange.
P;ease keep in mind that decisions at any Ltd company are never made by one
person. When a company has an executive and non-executive board (which I
think is the case with Acorn) you can be fired if you don't agree with
what the majority of that combined board decides...
If I would go public with my company, the same could happen to me...
Brian Cockburn
I can assure you, as a founder member of the RiscPC team, that Peter
Bondar had nothing to do with it.
Brian Cockburn (Acorn 1983-95).
Matthias Seifert
> In article <6uiigj$orv$1...@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Matthias Seifert
> > Erm, doesn't anyone remember who was responsible for all the
> > shortcommings of Acorn in the past years? Ever realised where Acorn
> > stood when Peter Bondar came and where Acorn is now? And now the same
> > person should be the last hope for the future? Strange.
> P;ease keep in mind that decisions at any Ltd company are never made by
> one person. When a company has an executive and non-executive board
> (which I think is the case with Acorn) you can be fired if you don't
> agree with what the majority of that combined board decides...
Surely this _could_ be possible.
But in this case it was more likely that the person we talk about fires
people because they don't agree with what he decided than that he got
fired...
> If I would go public with my company, the same could happen to me...
Sure.
But I don't think that this was the case with Peter Bondar. And several
emails I received in the past few days show me that I am not alone with
this estimation.
Unfortunately these poeple don't want to write in a Newsgroup - should I
wonder why? ;-)
AndreWas
In message <d2ce528c48%tim...@armage.demon.co.uk>
Tim B <tim...@armage.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant27210...@year0332.innet.be>
> Manuel Timmers <star...@innet.be> wrote:
> > Dear Andrew,
> >
> > May I remind you that ATM the rescue and all things around ex-Acorn
> > are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
> > all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
> > developpers things are still in vain.
> >
> > Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
> >
Yes, I am waiting for a light of the UK !
Seems to me, as the rescue-team is doing the same to the continent like
Acorn has done.
There was no information-trafic about everything they have done.
(Only a few days before the black day, my dealer was angry not having
heared of the offer.
The information over the net was quicker (ca. 14 days) than the mail
from Acorn. It has to be the other way round !)
> > Regards,
> >
> > Manuel
>
> The answer is very simple...there are two reasons why the Phoebe rescue
> is currently a UK operation.
> 1: Only UK people have come forwards
> 2: The meeting was held in the UK at very short notice, not even all UK
> people could make it.
>
> I am sure that the people concerned will be very willing to accept
> assistance from people outside the UK...just as soon as those people get
> in touch and offer the assistance.
>
Yes, I will offer assistance to u, but I have to know, for what shall I
offer it ?
We have no other information than that on this NG, but what information
was it ?
> A meeting was held today Friday 25th September 1998 of Acorn
> Dealers, Developers and other interested parties.
>
> The meeting is pleased to announce the appointment of Peter
> Bondar to head up a new consortium tasked with maintaining and
> developing the existing Acorn product business.
>
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
>
> --
> Steering Group
>
There is no information what to do, how to support this with money,
knowlegde or trading-ways.
I havent seen this kind of information yet.
Maybe I have overseen such a message, so why the steering group does not
set a mailinglist up, so that people, which are interested simply can get
informations ?
maybe the maylinglist will be done the next days.
I think, If we will become information here (in Germany and other
countries), we can organize something to support u.
But without any information I am not sending any money or something
else.
I hope, that the stearing group (rescue-team ?) will improve its
information-management !
(Its been on the NGs, someone suggested a monthly "newsletter".
I think thats the way !)
I hope the best for the rescue team, whoever will be its members, and
I will be pleased about any information.
cheers,
AndreWas
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J.W.Warby
Please, Please, Please! come over to England and sell these computers for
us!!
I always knew the Dutch were able to recognise a good thing - discerning and
always after quality (I used to shop in Roermond when my husband was in the
R.A.F. at Bruggen back in the early seventies!)
Why is Acorn not selling these machines with this kind of hype?
After a very enjoyable read:
Met vriendelijke groet!
And no, I could never get my tongue around Dutch! Thanks for your excellent
English!
Sheila
alias she...@argonet.co.uk
RiscPC 700 & proud of it!
--
--. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------.
|_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines|
| | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------'
| | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | she...@argonet.co.uk
Stuart Bell
> Well, for the ukp 800 per day Peter Bondar is demanding for his "work", I
> believe you would get quite some people to do the job.
800 ukp per day; 4000 ukp per week; 200,000 ukp per year.
Hmm. OK, I'll offer. I'll even sell my Mac. ;-)
PS Perhaps he'll be able to buy his own Risc PC again, now.
--
Stuart Bell
running a PowerBook 100, Color Classic and PowerMac 6500/275.
PB-100 FAQ at www.argonet.co.uk/users/sabell/pb100.html
André van den Berg
> > May I remind you that ATM the rescue and all things around ex-Acorn
> > are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
> > all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
> > developpers things are still in vain.
> >
> > Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
> >
> >
> > Manuel
>
> The answer is very simple...there are two reasons why the Phoebe rescue
> is currently a UK operation.
> 1: Only UK people have come forwards
> 2: The meeting was held in the UK at very short notice, not even all UK
> people could make it.
>
> I am sure that the people concerned will be very willing to accept
> assistance from people outside the UK...just as soon as those people get
> in touch and offer the assistance.
We were there.... (and if Paul Reuvers of XAT wouldn't have had an eye
surgery, he would have been there too!!)
André van den Berg,
ECD Computers, Rijswijk THE NETHERLANDS
ec...@xs4all.nl
André van den Berg
I thought the Dutch were the inventors of 'Grocery thinking' but it seems
that other populations have learnt from us.
What do you think a (less skilfull) lawyer would cost you.
> 800 ukp per day; 4000 ukp per week; 200,000 ukp per year.
It's not a salary but a CONSULTANCY FEE (and a rather low one if you ask
me; all the expenses have to be paid from that as well, just as with
lawyers)
Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
André van den Berg,
Spotvogellaan 34
2281 CP Leidschendam
ec...@xs4all.nl
André van den Berg
> 800 ukp per day; 4000 ukp per week; 200,000 ukp per year.
And on the contrary to what you might think: One pound doesn't represent the
same value in the UK as on the continent. If I would multiply it with DFL it
would be 'times 3,20', for Germany 10% less). The purchase value of one
pound for a UK citizen is maybe only Dfl. 2,20 -DM 2,00-).
Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
André van den Berg,
Spotvogellaan 34
2281 CP Leidschendam
ec...@xs4all.nl
Favoriete homepage:
http://nastol.astro.lu.se/~henrik/spacew4f.html
Space Weather Page (om nou eindelijk eens van dat gezeur over het
broeikaseffect af te zijn).
Joe Smerdon
>
>RSI( Repetitive Strain Injury)
>
>The consequences of RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury- overuse of hand
>and arm joints) were foreseen by Acorn long ago: the carefully
>though-through desktop, the context-sensitive pop-up menu‘s and three
>active mouse buttons- all these avoid many unnecessary screen miles,
>as well as an excess of mouse clicks. And through the use of
>anti-aliased outline screen fonts- which are completely smooth- an
>8-point letter is legible: lengthy use of even a 14• monitor does not
>mean eye-strain either (anti-aliasing means a four-times higher optical
>resolution on screen! The Acorn RISC PC was after all developed in
>conjunction with users and not by know-it-all techies on the basis of an
>out-of-date blueprint and an ill-considered and un-ergonomic
>viewpoint.
Actually, my Acorn-badged monitor makes anti-aliasing a problem! The
screen is about 0.25mm (both sides) out of focus in the centre, which
sounds tiny, but really is a pain in the eyes.
Still, that's probably just an exception which proves the rule.
joe
Joe Smerdon
<M.Se...@t-online.de> writes
>And don't forget to tell him, that you're comming from the Netherlands.
No double m in words like coming and becoming and stuff like that. If
your keyboard's m is sticky then I apologise.
joe
:o)
--
Joe Smerdon
George Russell
<ec...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Common answers to common claims follow. I'm biased, i've never
enjoyed using Acorns Major snippage also.
[snip]
>cup. Real multi-tasking,
Cooperative. Not up to standards of say Linux or NT or Solaris etc.
Comparable to MacOS, but only since MacOS badly needs a redesign.
>RISC technology (Reduced Instruction Set Computer), along with the
>Acorn-developed RISC Operating System has been the basis of
>ultra-fast Acorn computers ever since the introduction of the Acorn
>Achimedes in 1987. Systems which are still way ahead of their time.
Which were ahead of their time ten years ago, and now sadly dated.
>Acorn users observe with compassion the various discussions about the
>quality of other GUI‘s (Graphical User Interfaces).
> Of course, every Mac or Wintel PC can do what an Acorn can,
And more, naturally. They've moved on a lot. There GUI's are more
flexible, more powerful, more intuitive and more widely used. X11 is
the ultimate in configurability - configure any hotkey/ mouse button
to any function, use any window manager, change look at click of a
mouse. Mac has easiest interface and strictest style guides. And
windows is not as bad as it is painted.
>
>Not Compatible?
>
>”Acorn isn‘t compatible• is an oft heard argument- what‘s usually
>being talked about here is the exchange of (often illegal) software.
And the lack of quality software is more of a problem. Does Acorn
excel at any software category (education is all).
Unix has best development tools and servers
Mac has best multimedia / content creation
Windows best business software and games.
[snip]
>problems. With Acorn compatibility begins, however, where it should
>with proper workstations- at filing level. You need to be able to read
>GIF, TIFF, JPEG, MPEG, PBM, DXF, CSV, CGM, PostScript,
>WordPerfect or RTF files, on Mac, Atari or DOS formatted disks
Unix / more specifically Linux can handle these file formats with
ease. DOS can handle some of these formats. Mac can do them all.
File compatibility just gives Acorn a life line , not an advantage.
>software. And that‘s possible, with a RISC PC! There are dozens of
>high-quality Public Domain- ie, free- utilities which will convert
> exotic file formats automatically. Many of these are actually
>superfluous, since software publishers provide the filters themselves
On many platforms programs will do this - Applixware and StarOffice on
Linux will do this. GIMP reads image files with ease.
[snip]
>200 companies develop software for Acorn, incidentally, producing
>more than 300 high-quality packages, including spreadsheets, graphics
>processors, educational software, databases, accounting programs,
>Desktop Publishing programs as well as at least 12 word-processors-
>one of which talks!- and Tex-compatible scientific programs).
Linux has more software than this, without the backing of 200 software
comapanies. More than 200 comapanies back Mac software. Over 200
have in the past supported dos, and that software is still knocking
around. Talking word processors pale before a text editor which
talks, browses the web, reads news and email, physcanalyses you and
lets you play minesweeper - Emacs! - plus more normal stuff like
macros, customisation, syntax highlighting, integrating compiler /
debugger and more with an upcoming WYSIWYG mode.
>Back in Time?
>
>And if you really want to, you can go back in time: there are
>PC486/586 cards available from around Dfl 750 (including VAT).
old and slow PC chips Truly back in time.
>Invaluable if you need to use that one particular PC Program (for
>example the NS Railway Planner, Elseviers Tax Almanac, or the ALH
>Route Planner). MS Windows running in an Acorn window- it works,
>really!
Buy Softwindows for Mac or Solaris workstations, get Pentium
performance in software emulation. Run natively on x86 on
Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris with Wine/Wabi or DOSEmu
>RSI( Repetitive Strain Injury)
>
>The consequences of RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury- overuse of hand
>and arm joints) were foreseen by Acorn long ago: the carefully
>though-through desktop, the context-sensitive pop-up menu‘s and three
>active mouse buttons- all these avoid many unnecessary screen miles,
>as well as an excess of mouse clicks.
Of course, Unix has boasted scriptability beyond your wildest dreams -
and your context menus and GUI are highly configurable. There is more
than one way to do it - that is the lesson from Unix, second only to
do one thing and do it well.
> And through the use of
>anti-aliased outline screen fonts- which are completely smooth- an
>8-point letter is legible: lengthy use of even a 14• monitor does not
>mean eye-strain either (anti-aliasing means a four-times higher optical
>resolution on screen! The Acorn RISC PC was after all developed in
>conjunction with users and not by know-it-all techies on the basis of an
>out-of-date blueprint and an ill-considered and un-ergonomic
>viewpoint.
Anti Aliasing is best on Acorn - but X is network transparent, servers
for true type fonts are available, and X can take advantage of
multiheading (like MacOS/ Windows) Anti aliasing has failed to be a
killer feature - nice extra though.
>1,000 Windows
>
>We can prove that an Acorn RISC PC is far ahead of its time and will
>remain so for many years.
Convincing evidence please? was ahead of its time is more accurate
(imho)
> Even if it were only running at the speed of a
>Pentium 266, it would still be faster in useŒand even if there were
>100 active programs and 1,000 windows open- there would be no
>performance degradation!
Does it support virtual memory? In Unix, if it ain't running it gets
swapped out - so 999 inactive programs will not affect the performance
of the other one program (allowing sufficient swap space)
>are handled extremely quickly and easily. Window contents move
>instantly on the screen, not just their outlines.
Unix does this in X11, Windows 95 with plus pack, Windows 98 does
this. If i need faster graphics, I can buy dedicated 2d/2d
accelerator cards cheaply.
>amplifier, for instance. The PC-cards support Creative Labs
>SoundBlaster standards.
Not an impressive achievement. Budget PC's do this in a single chip
along with CPU, i/o controller and graphics. The origninal
soundblaster standard is 8bit mono sound - more recent soundblasters
use wavetable synthesisers and deliver 3d cd quality sound.
>Linear Memory
>
>There are no speed-destroying stick-on solutions such as EMS, EMM,
>QEMM-memory and so on with a RISC PC.
Nor with NT, or Unix, and possiblt not with MacOS.
>No expensive video-cards
>needed to improve speed
Buy new but cheap - 4mb pci video card for £17
>, or to get round memory limitations.
Buy vram - you can upgrade most cards.
>If you‘re
>short of memory, just make the program‘s font or image-cache smaller
>for instance. Memory can be expanded to 256 Mbytes, but multitasking
>works comfortably with just 8Mbytes!
In Linux. In Windows 3.1 . In Concurrent CP/M. In DR-DOS. On the
Amiga, Atari 8Mb is more than most have.
> Moreover, if you want to change
>the number of colours or screen resolution, you do not need to
>re-configure or switch off the computer.
Restart the Xserver - run more than one Xserver - hotkey between them,
or change resoloutions by hotkey - use Windows PowerToys to change
res/colour depth on fly - MacOS does this. Only in Windows 3.1 or
early 95 is this needed, and Windows 3.1 could drop to dos then
restart.
> And even if the electricity
>fails, your files will not be scattered all over the hard-disk (we know of
>PC-users who needed more than a week to find their files again).
Any OS caching disk writes can be prone to data loss in power cuts -
the alternative is slower disk writes.
>The robust housing of a RISC PC, manufactured from recyclable
>material, is developed on a modular basis. You do not need to replace
>the housing if you want to expand your system with CD-ROM players,
>ZIP-drives or Syquest removable disks for instance: you can stack
Parallel port devices if this is such a problem.
>built in as standard, and increases the speed of the already fast RISC
>PC by between 6 and 10 times! The RISC PC is now among the
>Dhrystone Internet database top-ten , along with the DEC-Alpha
>computers.
Better price performance ratios on PowerPC, intel clones, and Alpha
systems than on Arm. Arm has two advantages over x86 - better design
( risc) and lower power consumption. But SMP PowerPC/x86/Alphas give
more for your money.
> And if UNIX or
>Windows is better for you, then we‘ll say so.
Glad to hear it.
>are all welcome. We advise owners of the Unix R260 computer to join
>a Unix user group.
And also to take advantage of the 1000's of GPL'ed, BSD and PD unix
programs out there.
Nice to see such dedication, pity its not promoting a modern and
capable system.
George Russell
(rus...@kde.org)
Alan Jones
<URL:mailto:tim...@armage.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant27210...@year0332.innet.be>
> Manuel Timmers <star...@innet.be> wrote:
> > Dear Andrew,
> >
> > are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
> > all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
> > developpers things are still in vain.
> >
> > Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Manuel
>
> The answer is very simple...there are two reasons why the Phoebe rescue
> is currently a UK operation.
> 1: Only UK people have come forwards
> 2: The meeting was held in the UK at very short notice, not even all UK
> people could make it.
>
> I am sure that the people concerned will be very willing to accept
> assistance from people outside the UK...just as soon as those people get
> in touch and offer the assistance.
>
Speaking for Koala Soft, we are in contact with the software houses we
deal with and have expressed our thoughts to them. As they were all,
in the main, positive, albeit realistic, I am sure they would have taken
these into account at the Phoenix OS meeting.
As the relationship between dealers out here is one of regular contact,
communal and commercial support, I know that these dealers who import
Risc OS related product from the UK are also in contact with their
suppliers and regular discussion is ongoing.
As for attending the meeting of minds, well, I am sure you will accept
my apology for not attending. The spirit was willing but the time frame,
and a couple of thousand dollars airfare, was weak...
My congratulations to the team for getting all those who attended
together at such short notice and my thanks to all of you who did
attend.
The comments about the viability of Mr Bondar in his new roll is one
which will forever be a discussion point. I have not met the man, but
then I have not met Stuart Terrell, Chris Hornby, George Bucanan,
Quentin Pain, to mention a few, but I know what they produce and their
devotion to their product. If these guys are happy with Mr Bondar
then thats ok with me. I did meet, on more than one occasion, an
energetic Risc OS fanatic who might have a few words of wisdom here.
He was a tall Scot went by the name of Sam.
All the best to you all, oh and us as well.
Cheers
Alan
>
**************************************************************************
Alan J Jones | -- ACORN DEALER and RESOURCE CENTRE -- |
Product Manager | Distributors of Acorn Third Party Software for |
Koala Soft | Education, Business and Home Computing |
| PO. Box 157, Winmalee. NSW 2777. AUSTRALIA |
**************************************************************************
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.
Stuart Bell
> > 800 ukp per day; 4000 ukp per week; 200,000 ukp per year.
>
> It's not a salary but a CONSULTANCY FEE (and a rather low one if you ask
> me; all the expenses have to be paid from that as well, just as with
> lawyers)
Expenses, let me see. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Just because some lawyers make several hundred thousands pounds a year,
and some gross over million, means that it's legal. It doesn't mean it
decent or moral. Nor that they're worth it.
André van den Berg
<URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Just because some lawyers make several hundred thousands pounds a year,
> and some gross over million, means that it's legal. It doesn't mean it
> decent or moral. Nor that they're worth it.
>
Many people know the price of things. Not many the value.
Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Andre van den Berg
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:Andr...@fsr12.informatik.uni-siegen.de> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In message <d2ce528c48%tim...@armage.demon.co.uk>
>
> > In message <ant27210...@year0332.innet.be>
> > Manuel Timmers <star...@innet.be> wrote:
> > > Dear Andrew,
> > >
> > > May I remind you that ATM the rescue and all things around ex-Acorn
> > > are becoming a strictly UK-club. So mathias is right in questioning
> > > all this. For him as for many continental Acorn users, dealers and
> > > developpers things are still in vain.
> > >
> > > Or perhaps someone CAN shed a light on this.
> > >
>
> Seems to me, as the rescue-team is doing the same to the continent like
> Acorn has done.
> There was no information-trafic about everything they have done.
Give them a chance! Its only been one working day since it was set up.
> (Only a few days before the black day, my dealer was angry not having
> heared of the offer.
> The information over the net was quicker (ca. 14 days) than the mail
> from Acorn. It has to be the other way round !)
Yes, I am sure those involved do NOT want a clone of Acorn, but something
better.
> > Further announcements will be made in due course.
> >
> > --
> > Steering Group
> >
> There is no information what to do, how to support this with money,
> knowlegde or trading-ways.
I am sure the information will come, please be patient.
> I havent seen this kind of information yet.
>
> Maybe I have overseen such a message, so why the steering group does not
> set a mailinglist up, so that people, which are interested simply can get
> informations ?
>
> maybe the maylinglist will be done the next days.
I am sure a mailing list will be set up for end users.
I would have thought that the mailing list for Dealers, Developers
and those wanting to invest would be the first to be set up!
>
> I think, If we will become information here (in Germany and other
> countries), we can organize something to support u.
>
> But without any information I am not sending any money or something
> else.
>
> I hope, that the stearing group (rescue-team ?) will improve its
> information-management !
>
> (Its been on the NGs, someone suggested a monthly "newsletter".
> I think thats the way !)
Monthly! you were complaining of having no info after 1 day earlier!
> I hope the best for the rescue team, whoever will be its members, and
> I will be pleased about any information.
Chris
--
CJE Micro's / NCS 'Acorn Centre of Technology'
Telephone: (01903) 523666 Fax: (01903) 523679
ch...@cje.co.uk http://www.cje.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN.
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:mis...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <bb30638c48%Andr...@AcornPower.hrz.uni-siegen.de>, AndreWas
> > Maybe I have overseen such a message, so why the steering group does not
> > set a mailinglist up, so that people, which are interested simply can get
> > informations ?
>
> out information will have to wait until there is some hard information to
> send, rather than encouraging further speculation which might make their job
> harder.
>
Thanks for a bit of sanity.
Stuart Tyrrell
Alan Jones <al...@koalasoft.com.au> wrote:
> I have not met the man, but then I have not met Stuart Terrell,
> Chris Hornby, George Bucanan, Quentin Pain, to mention a few, but I
> know what they produce and their devotion to their product. If
> these guys are happy with Mr Bondar then thats ok with me.
Whoops!
Assuming Alan is talking about me, could I just point out that I have
not made any public comment about Peter Bondar's appointment, nor am I
likely to do so. I really don't know enough about the situation in
order to justify comment ;-)
Stuart.
--
Stuart Tyrrell Developments Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk
PO Box 183, OLDHAM. OL2 8FB http://www.stdevel.demon.co.uk
Orange: 0976 255 256 (9am-9pm) dFax: 0870 164 1604 (National rate)
**NEW** Touchpad from UKP29.95 ** PS2Mouse+ now available UKP39.95
Chika
> But in this case it was more likely that the person we talk about fires
> people because they don't agree with what he decided than that he got
> fired...
Depends on the company structure. In Acorn's case, the shareholders have
the last word with all matters, including hiring and firing. In such a
company, although day-to-day company decisions are almost always made by
the company director, or devolved down where possible, the final say-so
comes from higher up. Not surprising since the shareholders own the
company (so to speak) and therefore want to make sure that their money
goes where it will do most good. For that much, the director has to give
the best advice he can. If he cocks it up, then he is as susceptible to
the Spanish Archer (El Bow) as any other employee. Which is why Mr. van
den Berg wrote:
> > If I would go public with my company, the same could happen to me...
> Sure.
Yup.
> But I don't think that this was the case with Peter Bondar. And several
> emails I received in the past few days show me that I am not alone with
> this estimation.
You would need to be party to some very high level shit at Acorn to be
able to make such a statement with any confidence. As for emails, since
you give no details, I can make no judgements.
> Unfortunately these poeple don't want to write in a Newsgroup - should I
> wonder why? ;-)
It's hard enough for the rest of us to keep up with the goings on in this
newsgroup, a lot of which seems to be just arguing the toss (i.e. some PC
lover decides that now would be a good time to wind up the poor Acorn
freaks, or someone with an agenda of their own decides to be as negative
as possible about the ongoing Phoebe situation.)
Certainly constructive criticism is never a bad thing, but when the
situation is this convoluted, the best idea is to either get your hands
dirty or just let the whole thing run on its own. In other words, let's
just see how things get on with Peter Bondar at the helm. It has to be
better than nothing, unless you have an idea of your own of course.
--
______
| /\ | Chika (irc #anime) - mad...@argonet.co.uk Phoebe? Wherefore
| //\\ | The Lurkers' Retreat / Madoka's Crash Pages ART thou, Phoebe?
|_/__\_| http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/madoka/ (ZFC A / CAPOW)
... 1987: Acorn releases the world's first 32-bit RISC-computer :-p Apple!
Dave Stratford
George Russell <george....@clara.net> wrote:
<Huge snip>
> > And if UNIX or
> >Windows is better for you, then we‘ll say so.
> Glad to hear it.
> >are all welcome. We advise owners of the Unix R260 computer to join
> >a Unix user group.
> And also to take advantage of the 1000's of GPL'ed, BSD and PD unix
> programs out there.
> Nice to see such dedication, pity its not promoting a modern and
> capable system.
But unix is /not/ a modern system. Reliable(ish), flexible, lots of
cheap/free tools accepted, but it is a 1968(ish) invention, and in some
places really looks and feels it. It is, unfortunately, very unfriendly
and can be quite unwieldy to use.
To see a very nice, reliable, flexible, OS, try VME. No chance of that on
a small m/c, though it would be nice.
Dave
--
Dave Stratford ZFCA
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/daves
Hexagon Systems Limited - Experts in VME systems development
Robert J Allen
> Common answers to common claims follow. I'm biased, i've never
> enjoyed using Acorns Major snippage also.
> [snip]
> >cup. Real multi-tasking,
>
> Cooperative. Not up to standards of say Linux or NT or Solaris etc.
> Comparable to MacOS, but only since MacOS badly needs a redesign.
Agreed - also doesn't cost as much as NT (but Linux doesn't have a
problem re initial outlay - both it and NT also need more staff support
or even more expensive consultant support).
>
> >RISC technology (Reduced Instruction Set Computer), along with the
> >Acorn-developed RISC Operating System has been the basis of
> >ultra-fast Acorn computers ever since the introduction of the Acorn
> >Achimedes in 1987. Systems which are still way ahead of their time.
>
> Which were ahead of their time ten years ago, and now sadly dated.
>
> >Acorn users observe with compassion the various discussions about the
> >quality of other GUI‘s (Graphical User Interfaces).
> > Of course, every Mac or Wintel PC can do what an Acorn can,
>
> And more, naturally. They've moved on a lot. There GUI's are more
> flexible, more powerful, more intuitive and more widely used.
Opinion - I use all three on a daily basis and don't find Windows or
MacOS GUI's significantly better in any significant area than RiscOS
(admittedly supplemented with a few bolt-ons) and they are
significantly worse in a few. Both 95 and 8.1 are more crash-prone than
RiscOS 3.7 - especially when pushed hard. Still waiting for serious
anti-alisassing on the others, too.
> And the lack of quality software is more of a problem. Does Acorn
> excel at any software category (education is all).
>
> Unix has best development tools and servers
> Mac has best multimedia / content creation
> Windows best business software and games.
> [snip]
Partly agree (don't play games myself) but its more accurate to say that
the lack of specialist software is more of a problem for me. Many
Windows/Mac office applications are loaded with unused (and sometimes
bug-ridden) features.
> Buy Softwindows for Mac or Solaris workstations, get Pentium
> performance in software emulation. Run natively on x86 on
> Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris with Wine/Wabi or DOSEmu
VirtualPC (softwindows competitor) runs like a wet dog on my PowerBook
1400/133, but better on a G3 (who can afford one? - not many people by
the look of the G3 PowerBook sales) - about as fast as PCEm on my
StrongARM RiscPC (excruciatingly slow).
> Of course, Unix has boasted scriptability beyond your wildest dreams -
> and your context menus and GUI are highly configurable. There is more
> than one way to do it - that is the lesson from Unix, second only to
> do one thing and do it well.
Oh, come on - who can afford decent Unix machines for regular business
or personal use (and who needs them)?
> Nice to see such dedication, pity its not promoting a modern and
> capable system.
Nice to see such condescension. RiscOS is getting a bit past it in some
areas - we all know that. Its the unfulfilled promise of the system
which is the area needing immediate attention if it is not to die and
leave the field entirely to the constant-hype/constant-outlay purveyors.
--
Robert Allen
e-mail: r...@ozemail.com.au
telephone: (03) 6224 4677 (B/H) int +61 3 6224 4677
(03) 6247 7080 (A/H) int +61 3 6247 7080
facsimile: (03) 6224 4688 int +61 3 6224 4688
Tony Houghton
> Oh, come on - who can afford decent Unix machines for regular business
> or personal use (and who needs them)?
What makes you think a PC running Linux isn't decent?
Nick Boalch
In article <36102d32...@news.clara.net>,
George Russell <george....@clara.net> wrote:
[snip]
> There GUI's are more flexible, more powerful, more intuitive and more widely
> used. X11 is the ultimate in configurability - configure any hotkey/ mouse
> button to any function, use any window manager, change look at click of a
> mouse. Mac has easiest interface and strictest style guides. And
> windows is not as bad as it is painted.
I beg to differ here... :)
Obviously each GUI has its own strong points. I have within arm's
reach machines running RISC OS, X and Windows, and there is an iMac round
the corner running MacOS 8.1, so I think I qualify as an expert
witness... ;)
X is stunningly adjustable. I have never used a GUI that is so
adaptable. The configuration ability beats everything else into a
cocked hat.
MacOS is good, but would not be my GUI of choice. And I would
disagree that it has the easiest interface.
Windows /is/ as bad as it is painted. It has crashed on an average
of once a day since we bought the computer. It is sluggish,
unresponsive and the constant disk-accessing bores me to tears.
RISC OS is my GUI of choice. The icons /are/ becoming a touch dated
(I'm using a slightly hacked-about version of the Xperience icon set
which is very nice indeed, though) but RISC OS beats the others hands
down in the areas of responsiveness and font handling. And it's much
easier on the eye than the other choices.
This is not to say that RISC OS doesn't have it's bad points. Just
that I can't think what they are... :)
Disclaimer: I am not a rabid acorn fanatic. It's simply that RISC OS
/is/ the best. Even in version 3.7, it is ahead of the competition
in a few vital areas, and it seems that RISC OS 4 would have brought it
up to scratch in the others.
All MHO, of course...
Cheers, Nick
--
!nick boalch, online news editor for archive magazine
--> ni...@greenbeak.demon.co.uk
--> http://www.greenbeak.demon.co.uk/
--> ICQ# 17407400
Foot: A device for finding furniture in the dark.
..
.
Dick Smith
ch...@cje.co.uk (Chris Evans) wrote:
] Thanks for a bit of sanity.
THAT'S what we need, a sanity-clause!
Sorry, I'll go back to sleep now.
Dick
--
=============================================================================
Dick Smith Acorn Risc PC di...@risctex.demon.co.uk
=============================================================================
Acorn User Editorial
di...@risctex.demon.co.uk (Dick Smith) wrote:
> In article <ant29095...@cje.local>,
> ch...@cje.co.uk (Chris Evans) wrote:
>
> ] Thanks for a bit of sanity.
>
> THAT'S what we need, a sanity-clause!
Chico: "hey you can't fool me, there ain't no sanity clause"
--
Steve Turnbull (Editor, Acorn User, aued...@idg.co.uk)
http://www.acornuser.com/
PGP Key available
Peter Naulls
> > ] Thanks for a bit of sanity.
> >
> > THAT'S what we need, a sanity-clause!
>
> Chico: "hey you can't fool me, there ain't no sanity clause"
Pah. I want a santy claus.
--
+--------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| Peter Naulls | Phone 64-7-854-9478 |
| pna...@usa.net | Java and JVM Consultant |
| http://chocky.home.ml.org/ | Technical Author |
| Java for Risc OS: chocky.home.ml.org/java/ | Program performance analyst |
+--------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
Unsolicted email received will be dealt with under the full extent of the law
Tim Howarth
> In article <ant29095...@cje.local>,
> ch...@cje.co.uk (Chris Evans) wrote:
>
> ] Thanks for a bit of sanity.
>
> THAT'S what we need, a sanity-clause!
But there aint no sanity-clause.
--
___
|im ---- ARM Powered ----
Robert J Allen
<URL:mailto:to...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> In <ant3007380b07n*4...@rja.ozemail.com.au>, Robert J Allen <r...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Oh, come on - who can afford decent Unix machines for regular business
> > or personal use (and who needs them)?
>
> What makes you think a PC running Linux isn't decent?
>
SGI and Sun workstations, having used 486 PCs running versions of Unix
for engineering applications (usually awful interfaces, but admittedly
fairly reliable with it)
John Bokma
Robert J Allen <r...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
<ant021916b497n*4...@rja.ozemail.com.au>...
> In article <slrn714ss...@tonyh.tcp.co.uk>, Tony Houghton
> <URL:mailto:to...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> > In <ant3007380b07n*4...@rja.ozemail.com.au>, Robert J Allen
<r...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh, come on - who can afford decent Unix machines for regular
business
> > > or personal use (and who needs them)?
> >
> > What makes you think a PC running Linux isn't decent?
> >
> Hm - OK, I haven't tried that one. I have to admit I was thinking of
> SGI and Sun workstations, having used 486 PCs running versions of Unix
I have a second hand Indy[1] here, running Irix. The price??? Just US $
1750,-
This includes ISDN, Ethernet, SCSI, Video in, Digital Audio in/out, Indy
Cam
17" monitor etc etc etc. I upgraded it to 24 bit graphics (US $ 250,-) and
added 64 M memory.
So if you can afford a RiscPC, you can afford a second hand Indy!
Regards,
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
C A S T L E A M B E R Software Development (Java/Perl/C/CGI)
http://www.castleamber.com/ jo...@castleamber.com
NEW: http://www.binaries.org/ Guide to Program Binaries & Pictures
northern lad
Steering Group <announ...@steering-group.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Further announcements will be made in due course.
That's great, but is this it? Anyone else have any other information? For
example, why is it that a good few people don't like Peter Bondar? What do
you actually plan to do? Hmm?
~Daniel
--
"someone stole my celery today. how could anyone go so low. its like going
into someones house and stealing their poo. the freaks." - from a terry post
- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/6089/ -
"we create the future with our words, our deeds, and with our beliefs" - b5
Dickon Hood
James Jeffrey <ja...@linux-box.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: > But unix is /not/ a modern system. Reliable(ish), flexible, lots of
: > cheap/free tools accepted, but it is a 1968(ish) invention, and in some
: > places really looks and feels it. It is, unfortunately, very unfriendly
: > and can be quite unwieldy to use.
: Take a proper look at a recent version of Linux (May I suggest SUSE) - you
: might change your mind.
Much as I love Unix (been hacking about with it for the past four years, and
installed the first 'don't do this unless you *really* know what you're
doing' alpha of RiscBSD...), 'rm -rf *' is hardly what I'd call friendly.
RPM isn't friendly, either.
FU set. People, don't go crossposting .misc with anything else; read the
appropriate FAQs and RFCs to find out why. Thankyou.
--
Dickon Hood
Due to binaries posted to non-binary newsgroups, my .sig is
temporarily unavailable. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible. We apologise for the inconvenience in the mean time.