PHOEBE IS COMING - IF YOU WANT HER!!!
Robert Todd
are in discussions with Acorn and hope to have news over the next couple of
days. Subscribe to acorn...@ask4.co.uk for regular updates.
Our proposal will be dependent entirely on you the Acorn community for its
ultimate success or failure. We will be offering the chance for you to place
deposits against the purchase of a Phoebe. If successful we hope to ship the
first batch in November, before the Arm Club Show. This will be only a few
weeks behind Acorn's schedule. Without support the scheme will fail before it
begins.
During the next week we will be arranging a meeting for all dealers and
developers interested in participating in the package. Without everyone's
support this cannot succeed.
You may have heard of other rescue bids in the news groups. These rumours
are true and will offer us all the best opportunity for the long term
survival of Acorn desktop computers. They will however take time to get
started. We must not allow the user base to disappear before they can begin.
This initial scheme will provide the necessary period of time for the others
to build a strong base and prepare for launch.
Anyone interested in buying one of these systems should initially contact me
at the address below. I am not taking firm orders yet. When the time comes
we will put you in touch with your local participating dealer to arrange
payment of deposits. Expected pricing will follow over the next few days.
The future's bright - the future's Phoebe!!
Cheers
Bob
--
Robert Todd, Todd Education Computer Services, Acorn Dealers
Scottish Show Organiser Telephone 0141 644 4952
E-mail in...@tecs.co.uk WWW http://www.tecs.co.uk
Toby Mackenzie
In article <ant18195...@bp49.argonet.co.uk>, Robert Todd
<URL:mailto:rt...@tecs.co.uk> wrote:
> Along with others I am launching a bid to rescue Phoebe from the ashes. We
> are in discussions with Acorn and hope to have news over the next couple of
> days. Subscribe to acorn...@ask4.co.uk for regular updates.
I was wondering when such a message would appear. Earlier than I
expected! Let's hope it happens... go for it.
Kind regards,
--
Toby Mackenzie
Orpington, Kent
Robert Todd
counting....
Cheers
Bob
--
Robert Todd Sent by a 233Mhz Strong ARM Risc PC
Richard D Skegg
a venture. I know it's not much but I believe that there has to be
something that _we_ can do to rescue the workstation division for the
accountants.
Richard
max
Yes I want her. But not now. I always wait a while after new
products appear. Later, you get it cheaper and with full reports
of the dis/advantages.
I want to use my existing apps. for work (my current system does
this).
But I want real power for my interests ie. emulation and gaming.
For this I rely on C code ports which are requiring more and
more 'BHP' (processing power).
Preferably I want RISC OS on a x86 PCI card. We will never attract
enough of a user base to keep up with advancements in the field
of ICT. Look at the evidence.
But it is important that as many M*cr*S*ft independent OS exist
as is possible. This is probably the only true requirement.
Diversity leads to evolution.
Monoculture leads to extinction.
Long live freedom of choice.
Acorn - let RISC OS free for people who care for her......
Best of Karma.
--
Max
StrongArm 276Mhz 32(1)Mb Acorn RiscPC
AMD 333Mhz 64(4)Mb W95 (Homebuilt)
'Soft' Motorola 68020 Amiga
'Soft' Motorola 68040 Apple Mac
Robert Todd
<maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip, I hate waste!>
>
> Yes I want her. But not now. I always wait a while after new
> products appear. Later, you get it cheaper and with full reports
> of the dis/advantages.
It is exactly this kind of attitude that prompted the end of Acorn in the
first place. Total orders for Phoebe were only approaching 300!!
Without being too pessimistic if the long term plans fail then my plan may
be the only chance you get to buy a Phoebe. Guess it depend how much you
really want it.
Alan Gibson
<URL:mailto:hi...@mojo.org> wrote:
> In article <na.88af19488...@argonet.co.uk>,
> rt...@argonet.co.uk (Robert Todd) wrote:
>
> > > > days. Subscribe to acorn...@ask4.co.uk for regular updates.
>
> > counting....
>
> I assumed that that was the list address and had a stab at sending the
> subscribe to majordomo@ and waiting for a bounce/response before maybe
> trying listserv or whatever etc.
>
> If that is the subscribe address then you'll going to have to make it
> clearer.
You just send a blank message to acorn...@ask4.co.uk to subscribe. John's
maybe doing it manually.
Alan
Scottish Acorn Show - 10-5pm - 8th November, 1998 - Marriott Hotel - Glasgow
--
__ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _
| | (_)___ _ _(_)_| | / __(_| (_)__ ___ ___ Tel: +44 1592 592265
| |_| / _ | \| | / _ | \_ \.| | | / _/ _ | \ Fax: +44 1592 596102
|____|_\_ |\___|_\___| /____/|_|_|_\__\___|_|\_| Liq...@cableinet.co.uk
Acorn |__/ music specialists. http://www.cybervillage.co.uk/acorn/liquid
Mark Fraser
Robert Todd <rt...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant18201...@bajorasoft.demon.co.uk>, Toby Mackenzie
> <to...@bajorasoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In article <ant18195...@bp49.argonet.co.uk>, Robert Todd
> > <URL:mailto:rt...@tecs.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Along with others I am launching a bid to rescue Phoebe from the ashes.
> > > We are in discussions with Acorn and hope to have news over the next
> >
> > I was wondering when such a message would appear. Earlier than I
> > expected! Let's hope it happens... go for it.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> counting....
> Cheers
> Bob
You can count me in.
--
How's life treating you, Norm?
Like it caught me sleeping with its' wife.
______________________________________________________
|\ /| ark Fraser / mfr...@argonet.co.uk www.argonet.co.uk/users/mfraser
| \/ | Somerset / Using !Pluto on an Acorn RISC PC
| |____________/You know what the sig means!
Gunnlaugur Jonsson
<URL:mailto:rt...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1130bc8748%maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk>, max
> <maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > <snip, I hate waste!>
> >
> > Yes I want her. But not now. I always wait a while after new
> > products appear. Later, you get it cheaper and with full reports
> > of the dis/advantages.
>
> It is exactly this kind of attitude that prompted the end of Acorn in the
> first place. Total orders for Phoebe were only approaching 300!!
If Acorn had realesed some solid information about the Phoebe other
than the price maybe they would have more orders. I was going to Acorn
World to look at Phoebe since the info I was getting was insufficient to
buy a computer after. Acorn hadn't even (to my knowledge) told us the
clock rate of the processor. Also, how much memory was supposed to be in
it, what size hard disc, what size/type of monitor etc. etc. I'm a Clan
member but I haven't seen anything that I could depend on other than the
price and that it was to be made available. It's almost as if the
management didn't want to sell it.
> Without being too pessimistic if the long term plans fail then my plan may
> be the only chance you get to buy a Phoebe. Guess it depend how much you
> really want it.
It depends on what is on offer.
--
Gunnlaugur Jonsson - gu...@nett.is - http://www.nett.is/~gulli
My neighbor has a circular driveway. He can't get out.
Ross Tierney
>
> During the next week we will be arranging a meeting for all dealers
> and developers interested in participating in the package. Without
> everyone's support this cannot succeed.
>
> You may have heard of other rescue bids in the news groups. These
> rumours are true and will offer us all the best opportunity for the
> long term survival of Acorn desktop computers. They will however take
> time to get started. We must not allow the user base to disappear
> before they can begin.
That, I agree is vitally important.
If you are arranging a meeting, I think we'd like to be involved.
I'll bring it to Stephen's attention directly as soon as he comes back
from Italy.
A stop-gap to fill in until the other systems is a brilliant idea, as
long as it doesn't damage the business plan a year from now. Long-
term, we will need to keep that in mind. Short term, it offers the
user base hope and opportunity, and gives the developer community a
chance to invest again and keep afloat.
This needs to be looked at closely IMHO.
> This initial scheme will provide the necessary period of time for the
> others to build a strong base and prepare for launch.
>
> Anyone interested in buying one of these systems should initially
> contact me at the address below. I am not taking firm orders yet.
> When the time comes we will put you in touch with your local
> participating dealer to arrange payment of deposits. Expected
> pricing will follow over the next few days.
Keep me directly informed of your negotiations.
--
Ross Tierney.
r...@eidos.co.uk "Anger is an energy"
kra...@argonet.co.uk -John Lydon
Ross Tierney
<maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip, I hate waste!>
>
> enough of a user base to keep up with advancements in the field
> of ICT. Look at the evidence.
There is no point. Development will take at least a year, and by then,
even Intel will be look at a different platform: IA64 - Merced.
Nobody could sell such a system in today's market. Back in the days
of CHRP though, it was a different matter when all Acorn could do was
try to stay afloat.
I feel that they have turned their back on us. Perhaps we should
all look at this as an opportunity, rather than as a problem.
Ross.
Ross Tierney
>
> It is exactly this kind of attitude that prompted the end of Acorn
> in the first place. Total orders for Phoebe were only approaching
> 300!!
More like half that figure had actually been placed from what I've
heard. Most users were probably waiting for the show to see it for real
before letting their wallets do their talking.
Still wasn't a reason for Acorn axeing the project IMHO.
> Without being too pessimistic if the long term plans fail then my
> plan may be the only chance you get to buy a Phoebe. Guess it
> depend how much you really want it.
For Optima, we're likely to do something similar anyway. The question
is; should we tailor it for the enthusiast market as well or not?
Ezra
Ross Tierney <kra...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> For Optima, we're likely to do something similar anyway. The question
> is; should we tailor it for the enthusiast market as well or not?
Of course you should. That way you end up with a computer system not just
a video editing system. Enthusiasts are what has kept this market supplied
with decent software for the past decade.
Should the 'Phoenix' succeed then you'll have created a marketplace where
each major app is supplied by a different company. No MS-like domination.
If you licence the OS you might even create the truly open system that PCs
have consistently failed to be. That must appeal, surely - I mean can you
imagine the pride in having created something like that?
If you can persuade Eidos to throw it's weight behind this (not
necessarily money, just the name) then you might start making headlines...
--
"The Yetiman Roars..."
ez...@argonet.co.uk
max
Robert Todd <rt...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1130bc8748%maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk>, max
> <maxan...@casa1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > <snip, I hate waste!>
> >
> > Yes I want her. But not now. I always wait a while after new
> > products appear. Later, you get it cheaper and with full reports
> > of the dis/advantages.
>
> It is exactly this kind of attitude that prompted the end of Acorn in the
> first place. Total orders for Phoebe were only approaching 300!!
>
My attitude is not responsible! In the past I have been a schools IT coord
and have battled with management and governors to be able to buy Acorn
computers. But only a fool ( or someone with more money than sense ) would
buy kit without full information and trust. Acorn has been poorly supported
by our government, and as a business, has lacked clear vision and
coordination. Well wishing enthusiasts will not overcome market forces. The
Amiga saga proves this - and they had a much larger user base. However, the
Amiga spirit still lives on, albeit in a changing form. We too must accept
change ( it might even be for the best ).
Best of Karma.....
James Hammerton
> Along with others I am launching a bid to rescue Phoebe from the ashes. We
> are in discussions with Acorn and hope to have news over the next couple of
> days. Subscribe to acorn...@ask4.co.uk for regular updates.
>
> ultimate success or failure. We will be offering the chance for you to place
> deposits against the purchase of a Phoebe. If successful we hope to ship the
> first batch in November, before the Arm Club Show. This will be only a few
> weeks behind Acorn's schedule. Without support the scheme will fail before it
> begins.
>
> developers interested in participating in the package. Without everyone's
> support this cannot succeed.
I strongly urge that you contact Forbidden Technologies about this, if
you haven't done so already that is! Also you might wish to contact a
contributor to recent threads by the name of Peter Bondar...
This is good news, I wish this venture success. Unfortunately until I
get myself a job, buying a Phoebe is out of the question.
James
--
James Hammerton, Research Student, School of Computer Science,
University of Birmingham | Home Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/
Connectionist NLP WWW Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/CNLP/cnlp.html
Replace "seemysigfile" with "james" in my email address
Stephen Crocker
Ezra <ez...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> If you can persuade Eidos to throw it's weight behind this (not
> necessarily money, just the name) then you might start making headlines...
Hmmm... A god way to increase the RiscOS market.
--
x^ ( ) _________ // Email: mailto:cr...@crok.demon.co.uk
< U O |_|_|_|_|_| O || WWW: http://www.crok.demon.co.uk
\, |/|\ _________ [ ]
. |/^\ . 2 . /__\
... Error 216: Tagline out of paper
Ro...@ubercomputer.org
>For Optima, we're likely to do something similar anyway. The question
>is; should we tailor it for the enthusiast market as well or not?
If the reponse on usenet is anything to go by, definitely. Just bear in
mind that you may end up disappointing people if the provisional specs
you float on this newsgroup are cut. I suspect Peter Bondar's removal
from Acorn had something to do with Phoebe's specs being butchered by
the accountants.
Remember though, that tailoring Phoenix towards the enthusiast is an
entrely different proposition than moving the exisiting Acorn userbase
over. I think upgradeability and inherent base level functionality
should be paramount considerations. UWSCSI as standard (ethernet
possibly as an optional extra on the motherboard). 1600x1200x24 base
resolution as a guide for scale etc. From the snippets I heard here
about Millipede's development graphics card for Phoebe, I would suggest
talking to them if you haven't already. For a basic system, 24/32M
default on the graphics card might be a tad excessive, but as an an
enthusiasts machine, the justification is there. Presumably under linux,
the card would just address some API, so the possibility exists of
putting in PCI/AGP cards as well and either accelerating the gfx or
driving multiple displays? Of course, as a turnkey video-editing
solution having a future proofed card (didn't the man from Millipede
mention 256M VRAM+onboard SA?) would also be attractive.
Another hardware considertion for any new machine, particularly the
Phoenix, is the sound capabilities. Single channel audiocards just
aren't sufficient when you're doing video, so why not go for some
reasonably high-end solution (GINA or Yamaha DSPFActory anyone?!?) which
allows simultaneous recording and playback of at least 4 audio channels,
as well as a decent wavetable midi implementation preferabbly, as well
as a slot on the motherboard for a wavetable upgrade. This might appear
excessive now, but 12 months down the line? And anyway, the enthusiast
market (leaving aside the video stuff) is a niche one. If Phoenix is
going to work at all, it has to excel, massively outperform the intel
workstation comptetion. In short, it has to turn heads, turn on the
computer scene and define new boundaries.
I wish anyone who takes up the challenge of producing some solution.
--
Andy
Postmaster
Ro...@UberComputer.org writes
>I wish anyone who takes up the challenge of producing some solution.
.. the best of luck.
Michael Ben-Gershon
>
> Along with others I am launching a bid to rescue Phoebe from the ashes. We
> are in discussions with Acorn and hope to have news over the next couple of
> days. Subscribe to acorn...@ask4.co.uk for regular updates.
>
> Our proposal will be dependent entirely on you the Acorn community for its
> ultimate success or failure. We will be offering the chance for you to place
> deposits against the purchase of a Phoebe. If successful we hope to ship the
> first batch in November, before the Arm Club Show. This will be only a few
> weeks behind Acorn's schedule. Without support the scheme will fail before it
> begins.
[ snip ]
I would DEFINITELY be interested in two systems, so long as a reasonable
PC card were available for them.
Michael Ben-Gershon
my...@netvision.net.il
Ross Tierney
<URL:mailto:Ro...@UberComputer.org> wrote:
> In article <na.5e1d834888...@argonet.co.uk>, Ross Tierney
> <kra...@argonet.co.uk> writes
>
> >For Optima, we're likely to do something similar anyway. The question
> >is; should we tailor it for the enthusiast market as well or not?
>
> If the reponse on usenet is anything to go by, definitely. Just bear
> in mind that you may end up disappointing people if the provisional
> specs you float on this newsgroup are cut. I suspect Peter Bondar's
> removal from Acorn had something to do with Phoebe's specs being
> butchered by the accountants.
Agreed. I suspect that that spec is quite achieveable myself, from
what I've seen the guys do.
What I'll also say is that Acorn has for too long been run by the
wrong people IMHO.
In the Optima team we have no accountants, nor, in fact, any managers.
We are all engineers of one description or another. There is NO fat
here and we get a lot done that way.
> Remember though, that tailoring Phoenix towards the enthusiast is an
> entrely different proposition than moving the exisiting Acorn
> userbase over. I think upgradeability and inherent base level
> functionality should be paramount considerations.
Assuming we go ahead; I agree.
> UWSCSI as standard (ethernet possibly as an optional extra on the
> motherboard). 1600x1200x24 base resolution as a guide for scale etc.
That's not that difficult as we're using PCI Graphics cards anyway.
> From the snippets I heard here about Millipede's development
> graphics card for Phoebe, I would suggest talking to them if you
> haven't already.
I, personally havn't done so yet, but that's 'cause I've been
innundated recently. If they can get through on my line I'd love to
speak to them. Okay, not knowing much about the board, you have me at
a slight disadvantage for now. IIR I'll try to spot-check their web
site tomorrow. Then I might be able to comment on thi further.
> For a basic system, 24/32M default on the graphics card might be a
> tad excessive, but as an an enthusiasts machine, the justification
> is there.
24/32Mb is going to be enough for just about anybody. Only
professionals would need such resources currently. Again, without
knowing any more than "It's a 24Mb PCI Graphics Card", I'd say it
better cost peanuts or I'll use a 12Mb Voodoo2 myself.
As it's Millipede though, I don't imagine it's that basic. I'm
confident that it'll have lots of other funky gear on board requiring
that quantity of memory. They did do the Apex, so it has something to
live up to... :)
> Presumably under linux, the card would just address some API, so the
> possibility exists of putting in PCI/AGP cards as well and either
> accelerating the gfx or driving multiple displays? Of course, as a
> turnkey video-editing solution having a future proofed card (didn't
> the man from Millipede mention 256M VRAM+onboard SA?) would also be
> attractive.
I havn't spoken with the guys there myself for a looong time. I'll
have to soon.
> Another hardware considertion for any new machine, particularly the
> Phoenix, is the sound capabilities. Single channel audiocards just
> aren't sufficient when you're doing video, so why not go for some
> reasonably high-end solution (GINA or Yamaha DSPFActory anyone?!?)
Or go all the way and get the SoundScape front-end ported for this
system :)
A decent two channel audo digitiser wil probably suffice for most
people. Professionals will be looking for digitising systems that
aren't anywhere near the interferance that a computer gives off
naturally for doing their edits with anyway!
Of course, staying 100% digital end to end has it's advantages too.
All of these are technicalities we will look at during the development
cycle though. It will be guaranteed to be good enough for
semi-professional on-line video editing - of that I'm pretty darn
certain :)
> which allows simultaneous recording and playback of at least 4 audio
> channels, as well as a decent wavetable midi implementation
> preferabbly, as well as a slot on the motherboard for a wavetable
> upgrade. This might appear excessive now, but 12 months down the
> line? And anyway, the enthusiast market (leaving aside the video
> stuff) is a niche one.
You can get all those features on PCI cards nowadays - and they're
cheap. Not everybody wants those features, so why should they have to
pay for them?
A standard SoundBlaster chipset will provide almost everybody with
what they want, and those that want the professional equipment will be
able to buy it off the shelf.
> If Phoenix is going to work at all, it has to excel, massively
> outperform the intel workstation comptetion. In short, it has to
> turn heads, turn on the computer scene and define new boundaries.
I tend to agree, but you do need to be realistic. Today, SoundBaster
is the deffinitive system in the world. It's pretty good for a cheap
solution and more than enough for most peoples requirements. They want
to be able to record their latest riff on their electric guitar or
digitise a soundtrack from their VCR and Soundblaster provides all
that and more to boot - but it's not the exacts same 'sound' you'll
find in a sound studio costng many thousands of pounds.
Where do you draw the line?
For me, I'd say that the SoundBalster of next year is the way to go,
'cause the more professional equipment is available on PCI cards
anyway for quite reasonable money these days.
I want a range of systems myself, high spec, medium and low. The high
spec system wil obviously need better hardware than the low, so it may
well come bundled with these sorts of items ready-fitted.
It all depends on how the market shapes up about a year from now.
> I wish anyone who takes up the challenge of producing some solution.
There are lots of very well placed companies in the enthusiast market
who can leap on the bandwaggon - and not only for the Acorn market -
ther ARE 4 million other users of Linux out there too...
Cheers,
Ross.
--
Ross Tierney.
r...@eidos.co.uk "Anger is an Energy"
kra...@argonet.co.uk -John Lydon
Rogue
<kra...@argonet.co.uk> writes
>In the Optima team we have no accountants, nor, in fact, any managers.
>We are all engineers of one description or another. There is NO fat
>here and we get a lot done that way.
Sure. Best way. If you have the convistion to pull off a system and
decide to go for it, don't get distracted. :)
>24/32Mb is going to be enough for just about anybody. Only
>professionals would need such resources currently. Again, without
>knowing any more than "It's a 24Mb PCI Graphics Card", I'd say it
>better cost peanuts or I'll use a 12Mb Voodoo2 myself.
I don't imagine the card would eb cheap. I'd imagine, being Millipede,
it'll do video in/out and probably have a stab at 3D accelration as
well. Oh, and I seem to recall there being an onboard SA for just such
acceleration. But it could be hot air. But in terms of a tie in with
Optima, it might make a lot of sense.
Vis the Voodoo II, as long as it'll do acceleration on the desktop as
well as games, no problem. That's the problem with the card as it stands
for the PC.. no direct x/open gl drivers. Which reminds me, some sort of
3d graphics api is a pretty important consideration. What's the score on
licensing OpenGL.. or is there already an implementation under Linux?
>> Presumably under linux, the card would just address some API, so the
>> possibility exists of putting in PCI/AGP cards as well and either
>> accelerating the gfx or driving multiple displays?
This is quite important I think. Support for multiple monitors is
crucial in the CAD business, and more than helpful in DTP/video etc.
This should be standard.
>
>> Another hardware considertion for any new machine, particularly the
>> Phoenix, is the sound capabilities.
>A decent two channel audo digitiser wil probably suffice for most
>people. Professionals will be looking for digitising systems that
>aren't anywhere near the interferance that a computer gives off
>naturally for doing their edits with anyway!
Sure. OK, maybe in hindsight a decent PCI card with wavetable (or slot)
and decent sound.. 20bit is gettign a grip of the market, and would be a
nice future proofed feature for not too much extra. Also consider
SP/DIFs in/out for digital mastering.
>For me, I'd say that the SoundBalster of next year is the way to go,
>'cause the more professional equipment is available on PCI cards
>anyway for quite reasonable money these days.
SoundBlaster or equivalent, with the emphasis on equivalent :). The SB
cards shakes these days, and feature/perfromance/quality wise are being
whipped by the likes of Teralogic and Trutlebeach, in that sector of the
market. Don't be blinded by the hype. SB cards are pretty average.
Regards,
--
Andy