Risc PC 2 Cancelled
Lee McGinty
Noone seems to have mentioned this...
Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
Lee
--
Lee McGinty (l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk) Equitable House Investments Ltd
My company only takes credit for the profitable things I do
Tips for gooder English: 8. Contractions aren't necessary.
Dave Vint
Lee McGinty wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Noone seems to have mentioned this...
>
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
See
Oh bugger.
Dave.
--
Dave Vint.
TENET Systems Ltd.
James Holtom
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
o
I couldn't quite believe this so I moseyed over to Bloomberg's UK site.
(www.bloomberg.co.uk)
There it is in black-and-white...
I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
(aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
just bought-out Acorn User...
[Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
/continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
Bugger.
James
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
--
Liam Gretton l...@star.le.ac.uk
Space Research Centre, li...@binliner.demon.co.uk
Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039
Leicester University, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464
Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/
Kell Gatherer
<l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
>Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
Up until today, RPC's are still in production, and make a profit.
This week, Phoebe has been up and running for the first time.
The development work has been done and paid for.
The software is ready to make use of it.
Surely *somebody* can make a go of it, even if the idiots on the board
can't?
--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locationworks.com
www.locationworks.com
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> There it is in black-and-white...
>
>
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and people
have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on their newlook
Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
Well, existing users won't suddenly stop buying Acorn user, so I don't if it
will have an immediate impact anyway.
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation division.
Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
"Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
--
Paul Vigay Computer Advice,
__\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Lee McGinty wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> >
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
>
>
> http://quote.bloomberg.com/analytics/bquote.cgi?story_num=603780470&view=story&version
> =front.quote.uk.cfg
Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and taking
deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
Stuart Bell
> There it is in black-and-white...
>
Yep - and no Acorn World '98, so scrub all the AAUG plans. . . .
>
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Unless it wasn't going to make a profit with all the discounts flying
around.
>
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
Yep
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
I doubt if he'd have bought out AU knowing that RPC2 was going down the
pan.
>
> But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
Indeed. Despite their disclaimers, they'd be up the creek if the info
was false. They even give contact numbers at Acorn.
Basically, all the desktop stuff is being off-loaded to Xemplar, and
Acorn will concentrate on technologies.
I also feel sorry for Acorn dealers -what will their situation be with
Xemplar handling sales?
RPC1 is to be continued with, but it looks like the end of the trail.
Can't blame anyone, it always was a backs-to-the-wall scenario once PCs
took such a strong grip on things. . . . .
(Hopefully non-inflamatory note; there are alternatives to Windross on
PCs if people are thinking of migrating, however sadly.)
Stuart
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
released. I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <3600F757...@tenet.co.uk>, Dave Vint
> <URL:mailto:da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lee McGinty wrote:
> >
> >
>
> Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and taking
> deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
> http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made today...
- Mark.
--
mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Noone seems to have mentioned this...
>
>
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
I can confirm most of the above, BUT
I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
There have been rumours within Acorn of a MBO (Management Buy Out)
and today I've heard of possible some previous employee involvement,
hopefully this will materialise.
Or
Another company from outside Acorn, is now looking seriously
at buying the Workstation division, I have been reliable informed (I can't
say anymore, except I am not personally involved)
SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
I would expect a 1-2 Month delay in Phoebe.
The ASIC IOMD2 apparently worked first time, and the finishing touches
were being done.
Apparently the board which is headed up by an Accountant! did not want
to commit funds to manufacturing? They are focussing on Digital TV.
As a knock on result Acorn World 98 will not go ahead, BUT
another show may? Again I can say nothing more yet.
Acorn are to continuing Production of RiscPC 1's.
The staff number cut may reflect the fact that the Logistics part of Acorn
(Accounts, personnel Warehousing) is now going to come under
Xempler, previously it was the reverse, Xempler used Acorn's warehouse,
accounts. etc
Please do not phone me for any more information, as at present I
have none, and I will post here anything I do hear.
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / NCS 'Acorn Centre of Technology'
Telephone: (01903) 523222 Fax: (01903) 523679
ch...@cje.co.uk http://www.cje.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN.
Barry Wickett
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
> > for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> > more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> > rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
million on it. Why cancel it?
Their argument of having something to display their technology on
doesn't hold much water now!
>
> I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and people
> have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on their newlook
> Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
They also seem to be clammering for more people to place orders for the
machine. I guess they didn't get enough orders and thought it wasn't
worth going any further.
>
> > Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> > (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> > just bought-out Acorn User...
>
> Well, existing users won't suddenly stop buying Acorn user, so I don't if it
> will have an immediate impact anyway.
>
No, but what for the long term? Without support developers can't keep
going for much longer. What would the magazine review in say a year's
time?
> > [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> > /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
>
> Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation division.
> Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
> "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
>
I would love to think this were possible. Perhaps it is, but
realistically I can't see it myself.
Does this mean Acorn Browse and Java are also dead?
Barry
James Holtom
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
> <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> > report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> > back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
>
> It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
Oh sh!t!
I've known Dave for quite a while, having met him just as he was leaving
Bristol post-MSc for Acorn [back in 1993].
He's always been ever-so helpful with things-Acorn... Definitely one of
the good-guys...
> Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
Well I'd been wondering how I could possibly afford a Phoebe + a P2
system that I need for Windows (spit) and FreeBSD + pay my tax-bill for
'97-98. I think the problem has just evapourated.
Damn!
James
Chris Evans
Or
Chris Evans
Telephone: (01903) 523666 Fax: (01903) 523679
Adrian Jackson
> I can confirm most of the above, BUT
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
Ah well. Time to start the first round of way-out wild and
crazy speculation, then...
...didn't Steve Turnbull say that the new Acorn User wouldn't
just be selling the magazine and that he couldn't say anything
more at the moment about what else it would be selling? :-)
Adrian
Tor Houghton
> Apparently the board which is headed up by an Accountant! did not want
> to commit funds to manufacturing? They are focussing on Digital TV.
>
When did accountants ever push innovative products? That said, I am not
so sure Phoebe is innovative enough.
Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
Rgds,
Tor Houghton.
Mark Koek
This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it
actually makes sense. You employ some people who could be making you an
enormous lot of money, but instead of that you're fighting an uphill
struggle against the M$ giant and are actually making a loss. It makes
sense to redirect your efforts towards more attainable goals.
Acorn computers always had some sort of base in the UK Education market,
but the signs there weren't very encouraging any more, with the UK
Government rubbing up to Bill Gates so publicly.
But all I can really think of is that it's so terribly, immensely,
horribly, unbelievably unfair. This, apparently, is what you get for
producing quality.
It's a sad day.
Mark Koek
mk...@wi.leidenuniv.nl
Fat German
> Man.
>
> This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it
> actually makes sense. You employ some people who could be making you an
> enormous lot of money, but instead of that you're fighting an uphill
> struggle against the M$ giant and are actually making a loss. It makes
> sense to redirect your efforts towards more attainable goals.
The world would be a nice place if accountants did not rule it. Nobody does
blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just because it's fun.
It's all about profit. It all stinks.
Mark.
Greg Hennessy
<Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
>
>It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
>million on it. Why cancel it?
>
Because there is not rational market for it
>Their argument of having something to display their technology on
>doesn't hold much water now!
Quite.
>They also seem to be clammering for more people to place orders for the
>machine. I guess they didn't get enough orders and thought it wasn't
>worth going any further.
I cannot believe that they even proposed it in the first place.
greg
James Holtom
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> > people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> > their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
>
> It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
> released.
Indeed -- None of it makes any sense given the proximity of RPC2, and
AW'98 -- I am sure the cancelation fees will be collosal (for the
exhibition and IOMD2 and all the other bits they've cancelled...)
I wonder if IMS perhaps fancy having a full-blown desktop machine as
well as a portable...
> I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
> resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
> not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
Indeed :(
How is this going to affect Leicester -- seeing as a portion [all?] of your
space imaging stuff is driven from Acorn kit?
James
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> How is this going to affect Leicester -- seeing as a portion [all?] of
> your space imaging stuff is driven from Acorn kit?
For some (certainly not all) projects here we use Acorns for testing and
calibration of space-based instruments, but I can't see it being much of a
problem for us. Although we've kept up with what Acorn has to offer (all but
one of our RPCs are SA-equipped), there are still quite a few Arcs doing
sterling work.
We're under some pressure to move over to PCs for future missions, and I
guess the demise of Phoebe will make it hard for us to push for their
continued use.
Still, I was looking forward to getting hold of a Phoebe for my desk :-(
Astute Graphics
I just received the news about Acorn and have got a few comments;
1) The people behind Project Avante are not about to 'down tools'
and are continuing with the development of this highly advanced
product - especially as it was designed to run on a Risc PC
(a Phoebe would have nice, but /not/ essential).
2) I personally have quite good reason why as to not panic. The
Acorn world is not going to vanish overnight and I can see a
future, albeit after much chaos (which is not good for anybody).
3) We have pushed a lot of time and effort into where we wish to
go and do not feel sorry that this investment has taken place.
We will continue, and more announcements with regards to Project
Avante will be made shortly on C.S.A.Announce
Finally, all the best to those who have recently lost their jobs
at Acorn. They did their best.
Nicholas van der Walle of Astute Graphics
http://www.astutegrfx.demon.co.uk/
Andrew Berry
<URL:mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant1713460b0q#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and
> > taking deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages
> > at http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
>
> ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made
> today...
Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Cheers,
--
Andrew Berry (and...@metallinks.com) - ICQ 15521869
http://www.metallinks.com/
This is not a test of power
James Hammerton
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee McGinty wrote:
>
> > Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
[snip]
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Problem is the marketing and selling of the machine itself costs money
(e.g. for advertising, producing manuals/brochures and support) and
they'd need to be confident of recouping that to make it worth while
pressing on. Presumably they don't, hence the cancellation.
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
I also feel sorry for all Acorn users who have stuck with a platform
loyally for so many years only to see it finally bite the dust.
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
Even if there were some sort of buyout of the Workstations division,
the likelihood of success is low, though I suppose the Amiga provides
a role model for this, except that it had far more of a user base than
RiscOS has.
[snip]
> Bugger.
Quite.
James
--
James Hammerton, Research Student, School of Computer Science,
University of Birmingham | Home Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/
Connectionist NLP WWW Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/CNLP/cnlp.html
Replace "seemysigfile" with "james" in my email address
Thomas Boroske
sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
Amiga now ? I mean, people are already speculating on IMS possibly
taking over, or perhaps Steve Turnbull has something to do with it -
but let's face it, there's simply no third party organisation that's
even near the size (in people and competence) of Acorn. And we've already
been criticizing that there're not enough people to
- Maintain a decent website
- Develop RiscOS as fast as needed
- Solve some "outstanding issues", like a proper compiler
etc etc.
Sob ...
Depressed,
--
Thomas Boroske
James Hammerton
> In article <3603eb9b....@news.dircon.co.uk>, Lee McGinty
> <URL:mailto:l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> >
> >
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
>
>
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
>
> and today I've heard of possible some previous employee involvement,
> hopefully this will materialise.
>
> Or
>
> Another company from outside Acorn, is now looking seriously
> at buying the Workstation division, I have been reliable informed (I can't
> say anymore, except I am not personally involved)
>
> SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
I think that would be better phrased as SOME SORT OF SERVICE SHOULD BE
RESUMED SHORTLY. Whether Phoebe and the RiscOS platform can continue
to be developed successfully by the group that buys out the division
is highly uncertain, unless the group has a lot of backing/financial
muscle.
Jim Lesurf
Barry Wickett <Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
> million on it. Why cancel it?
The timing does seem absurd at first glance. It would've made more sense
to cancel when Peter Bondar left *or* to 'give it a go' and decide after
trying to sell for a while.
However, it has seemed to me for some time, from messages emerging from
Acorn in recent weeks, that a kind of covert 'battle' has been going on
between the 'bean counters' who hate any kind of consumer manufacturing
(i.e. for sale to individual customers as opposed to sale of designs or
intellectual property on contract/license to businesses) and those who
believe desktop hardware is the foundation of future success in the
intellectual property area. It seems as if the bean counters have won and
decided not to spend the money required to set up a production line and
commit cash to component stock.
It may be that they have, until now, presented the RPC2 as a forthcoming
'going concern' in the hope of finding a corporate buyer. Stopping the
process leading to launch, in itself, lowers the potential sale value of
this business area. They may also be assuming that they can wait and see
if those made redundant come back with a plan for a 'buy out' that will
relieve them of the messy business of making desktop machines for real
people.
> No, but what for the long term? Without support developers can't keep
> going for much longer. What would the magazine review in say a year's
> time?
Speaking as someone who finds RiscOS and some of its apps (e.g.
TechWriter) virtually essential. I'll be keeping RiscOS boxes going for as
long as I can to *use* them. I need this for a productive working life and
for some small measure of sanity! In the absence of a RPC2 I'll keep my
RPCs going whilst possible, and will probably if I can also buy a peanut
with the money saved.
The worry is, indeed, the survival of developers. Some like the Avante
group must be particularly snookered by the way Acorn have behaved.
> > Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation
> > division. Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they
> > could continue as "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
> >
I really *hope* that something like this happens. If it did I'd even
invest in it, although I'm not exactly as rich as the gates of hell...
> Does this mean Acorn Browse and Java are also dead?
One of my main concerns for the future is Java. I can imagine continuing
to use a RPC until defeated by one of three things
1) Some hardware fails that can no longer be replaced
2) I need a more up-to-date JVM for daily work
3) some new 'killer' software requirement appears
A buyout might allow a RPC2 to appear, perhaps bundled with some decent
software. But what about Java 1.2 - and beyond?... Developing a
'validated' JVM/JDK is serious stuff. Outside Acorn, Peter Naulls is doing
an excellent job as a 'one man band' of porting/writing in his own right,
but trying to keep up with the big boys in this area could be very
demanding. And for anyone wanting to keep using a RiscOS box, Java becomes
ever more important in my view as the way to break beyond the limits
imposed by the 'ghetto'.
Acorn have recently shown a willingness to 'rent out' RiscOS3. I hope it
might be possible for someone - a buyout or a 3rd party - to do something
similar to bring the RPC2 into production. Both for the livelyhoods of all
involved, and for users like myself who need it. If I was rich enough I'd
emulate the guy who bought a company cos he liked their razors. Alas, I'm
not, but I'd still pay somewhat more than the *original* projected price
of a RPC2 to get one or two!
I also extend much sympathy to the people at Acorn who were dumped this
morning. It is bad enough to be made redundant. It makes it worse, to be
left feeling that the people you were working for regard your creative
efforts as "not good enough to support". This sadly shows the poor state
of the thinking of many who tend to run public (i.e. shareholder)
companies in the UK. They know the cost of everything and the value of
nothing. They regard any investment in the future as a 'risk' to be
avoided. Alas, all too typical.
Where there is no vision, the people also perish.
Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
Slainte,
Jim
--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
MMWaves http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Index.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
TechWriter http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/TechWrite/Tips1.html
Dutton CDs http://www.duttonlabs.demon.co.uk/index.html
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:jc...@st-and.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> One of my main concerns for the future is Java. I can imagine continuing
> to use a RPC until defeated by one of three things
[snip]
> 2) I need a more up-to-date JVM for daily work
[snip]
Surely Acorn will still require an up-to-date JVM for their NC boxes? If
not, that's more money down the pan - IIRC the Java licence cost Acorn in
the region of 1 million quid alone.
Nigel Parker
Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D
project has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a
Phoebe release (but unlikely)?
If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
complete designs to someone?
Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
unix workstation ;-)
A sad day.
<in the voice of Homer Simpson>
You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
Nigel
--
Girton College, Cambridge, England, CB3 0JG. Tel: 0411 384803
http://welcome.to/nigels nigel....@iee.org
Neil Spellings
[snip]
> Surely Acorn will still require an up-to-date JVM for their NC boxes? If
> not, that's more money down the pan - IIRC the Java licence cost Acorn in
> the region of 1 million quid alone.
Yes, Acorn will still need RISC OS and other products like Java as these are
already used in many of their new 'core' products. What will probably happen is
that whoever buys the workstations division will have to licence RISC OS and
other cruicial apps from Acorn.
Regards,
/Neil/
--
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Neil Spellings | Spellings Computer Services Ltd |
| NT Systems Analyst | Telephone 0171 451 1960 |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| StrongARM Acorn RiscPC Owner |
| Chairman, Association of Acorn User Groups (AAUG) |
+------------- http://www.argonet.co.uk/scs/ ---------------+
Views expressed are entirely my own...
Dickon Hood
Andrew Berry <and...@metallinks.com> wrote:
: In article <ant171336965Q9#H...@sarpc.local.net>, email
: <URL:mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
: > ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made today...
: Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
: announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Things don't always work like that. I was expecting this announcement this
morning, but that's only because I'd been tipped off by an anonymous person
last night, and *[s]he* only *suspected* it was going to happen.
--
Dickon Hood
Due to binaries posted to non-binary newsgroups, my .sig is
temporarily unavailable. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible. We apologise for the inconvenience in the mean time.
Clockmeister
Thomas Boroske <y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote in article
<fbac148748%y000...@tu-bs.de>...
> Hello,
>
> sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
> me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
> one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
>
> Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
> Amiga now ?
Well, the Amiga does have a future although not very well defined.
Which raises a point... The only way the platform can have a future is if
the users remain loyal, as is the case with the Amiga. It was the remaining
users (quite a few of them) which interested Gateway and finally pushed
them to buy Amiga out.
If a company realises the potential sales market because of the number of
users still using an orphan platform they are likely to consider purchasing
the production rights to that platform.
Remember that the Amiga was in nowhere land for four years, and with only a
handfull of hardware developers keeping the machine competetive it
survived.
As an Amiga user I would have to suggest you stay loyal to your platform,
even if Acorn hasn't. If there is a potential market someone may snap it
up.
Failing that, could I interest you in a new Amiga in about a year and a
half?
Just kidding.
Don't give up all hope yet!
Regards,
Clockmeister.
Greg Hennessy
<locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
>is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
>
For what exactly ? A niche platform with less than stellar performance
serving a rapidly shrinking market.
>Up until today, RPC's are still in production, and make a profit.
Any school not looking closely at the alternatives is very foolish
indeed.
>This week, Phoebe has been up and running for the first time.
>The development work has been done and paid for.
>The software is ready to make use of it.
>
But obviously the market is not there. So we have X million Ł down the
toilet. Sounds like the previous management @ Acorn have a lot to
answer for.
>Surely *somebody* can make a go of it, even if the idiots on the board
>can't?
Thats quite harsh.
greg
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>When did accountants ever push innovative products? That said, I am not
>so sure Phoebe is innovative enough.
>
That was obvious from the start.
>Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
>NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
If the company is up shit creek without a paddle then having an
account driving things & NOT techies is exactly what one needs.
greg
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>But all I can really think of is that it's so terribly, immensely,
>horribly, unbelievably unfair. This, apparently, is what you get for
>producing quality.
Producing an overpriced underspecified niche product that no one will
buy ? I think not.
greg
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:mgre...@madge.com> wrote:
> Nobody does blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just
> because it's fun.
We do :-P
Michael Prior-Jones
>
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
<Snip>
> > > [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> > > /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
> >
> > Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
> > "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
> >
Look again closely at Stan Boland's words on the report. He doesn't
mention the cancellation of the project,
only expresses his regret at the redundancies. IMHO, there's rather more
to this than meets the eye. Some might say that I'm too much of an
optimist.
It does seem strange that only two days ago Acorn were making big noises
about how fantastic the RPC2 would be. Major restructuring doesn't
happen overnight, in my experience. If they were going to axe it
completely, why spend the money promoting it the week before the project
is cancelled?
Maybe Steve Turnbull knows...
Michael Prior-Jones
BBC Research & Development
Opinions expressed are not those of the BBC, and must not be taken as
such.
Stuart Bell
> Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
> announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Yes, but had it changed its site first, we would have known something
was 'up'.
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Steve Turnbull
Thomas Boroske <y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote:
> Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
> Amiga now ? I mean, people are already speculating on IMS possibly
> taking over, or perhaps Steve Turnbull has something to do with it -
> but let's face it, there's simply no third party organisation that's
> even near the size (in people and competence) of Acorn.
Oi, I resent that implication.
It's not size that counts, it's how you use it :-)
Let me just say that I am not [yet] despondent, the news came to
us just as we were having a staff meeting so "the chaps" could meet
my partners -- it was certainly a bit of a bombshell but, without
being able to go into any detail, the reaction was "what are we
going to do about it" not "oh sh*t let's give up and go home".
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Steve Turnbull
Adrian Jackson <adr...@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ah well. Time to start the first round of way-out wild and
> crazy speculation, then...
>
> ...didn't Steve Turnbull say that the new Acorn User wouldn't
> just be selling the magazine and that he couldn't say anything
> more at the moment about what else it would be selling? :-)
I have to say that when I made that comment I knew nothing about
what was going on inside Acorn.
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... I'm leaving my body to science fiction.
Steve Turnbull
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> >Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
> >NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
>
> If the company is up shit creek without a paddle then having an
> account driving things & NOT techies is exactly what one needs.
I couldn't agree with you less.
Financial control is absolutely essential *all the time* but what is
considered to be "accountant-think" is absolutely fatal.
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... Brevity is the soul of lingerie
Greg Hennessy
<y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
>me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
>one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
>
Despite my often vocal criticism of the platform I take no joy in its
demise. It was however inevitable. If you do not innovate you die.
The last time Acorn was innovative was in Jul 1987. That 1mb 305 was
the first computer I owned & even today the warm fuzzy feeling of
owning it still has some echoes within.
>Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
>Amiga now ?
Unlike the Amiga, I believe the number of enthusiasts are just not
there to keep it going. Even the Amiga has a dearth of software these
days. Given the rather rudimentary nature of the underlying OS, it
will be somewhat of a wasted effort to leverage application
development on platforms like Linux through porting or whatever.
>- Develop RiscOS as fast as needed
>- Solve some "outstanding issues", like a proper compiler
>etc etc.
These issues should have been tackled 8-9 years ago. Acorn is finally
seeing the consequences of failing to do so then.
greg
garyp
Nigel Parker <URL:mailto:95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
> appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
From what Ive seen it is the same/very similar
> Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D
> project has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a
> Phoebe release (but unlikely)?
Sorry, cancelled as in NO RPC2
> If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
> the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
> bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
> complete designs to someone?
>
> Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
Like many ppl a suppose
> unix workstation ;-)
>
> A sad day.
>
> <in the voice of Homer Simpson>
> You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
>
>
> Nigel
Gary
--
The /\ | ) |\ /| ga...@thesidingsbbs.demon.co.uk
|__| |-- | \/ |
| | | \ | | ga...@armclub.org.uk
Club
Kell Gatherer
>The timing does seem absurd at first glance.
It's plain silly.
>They may also be assuming that they can wait and see
>if those made redundant come back with a plan for a 'buy out' that will
>relieve them of the messy business of making desktop machines for real
>people.
Two companies: Acorn pursuing digital TV & thin-client solutions, and Acorn
Workstations Ltd, making desktop computers. This is a split of their
expertise, and may lead to key Acorn people jumping ship....
>Speaking as someone who finds RiscOS and some of its apps (e.g.
>TechWriter) virtually essential. I'll be keeping RiscOS boxes going for as
>long as I can to *use* them. I need this for a productive working life and
>for some small measure of sanity! In the absence of a RPC2 I'll keep my
>RPCs going whilst possible, and will probably if I can also buy a peanut
>with the money saved.
Me too.
<snip>
>Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
>whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
>that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
You're not.
--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locationworks.com
www.locationworks.com
Adrian Look
>In article <ant17122...@xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk>, Liam Gretton
><l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
>
>Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
>is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
>
>The development work has been done and paid for.
>The software is ready to make use of it.
>
>can't?
Indeed, may be even a management buy-out lead by an ex-Acorn employee?
--
Adrian Look
<mailto: adrian at looksystems dot demon dot co dot uk>
LOOKsystems Limited
15 Grovehill Drive
Falmouth
Cornwall
TR11 3HS
Tel/fax: +44 (0)1326 318279
Adrian Look
>On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Liam Gretton wrote:
>
>> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
>> <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>> > report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
>> > back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
>>
>> It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
[snip]
>I've known Dave for quite a while, having met him just as he was leaving
>Bristol post-MSc for Acorn [back in 1993].
>
>He's always been ever-so helpful with things-Acorn... Definitely one of
>the good-guys...
Indeed. :-(
Dickon Hood
Nigel Parker <95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
: Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
: appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
: Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D project
: has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a Phoebe
: release (but unlikely)?
It's dead, gone, buried, and if it ever sees the light of day I'll be
stunned. Pleased, but stunned. I've spoken (well, typed at) those affected,
and it's all true. End of story. These rumours of buyouts are for the
optimists only, I'm afraid.
Paul L. Allen
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) writes:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:14:47 +0200, Tor Houghton <to...@nextel.no>
> wrote:
> >Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
> >NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
>
> If the company is up shit creek without a paddle then having an
> account driving things & NOT techies is exactly what one needs.
The first time Rolls Royce went bust it was because the techies were
in charge and didn't listen to the accountants. The second time Rolls
Royce went bust it was because the accountants were in charge and didn't
listen to the techies...
--Paul
Kell Gatherer
<webr...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Maybe *that* is the point. I may be not as ready as we are made to
>believe......
No, that's the point. THIS WEEK they had the first Phoebe up and running.
Or so I'm told.
Richard Walker
Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
Oh good. That's just what is required - some positive action, instead of
doom and gloom (wow - that's come from me?!). Yes, today's announcement is
terrible, but hopefully, 'we' can do something about it.
What about forming a consortium to look after Acorn Developer's and
co-ordinate future hardware/software developments? Maybe one of these
potential buyers would do this anyway.
If the platform had some more good software, it would be worth continuing
with the hardware etc.
> SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
I've lost track of what 'normal service' is, these days!
> I would expect a 1-2 Month delay in Phoebe.
>
> The ASIC IOMD2 apparently worked first time, and the finishing touches
> were being done.
That's good.
--
Richard.
"I got something to say that might cause you pain."
Matthias Seifert
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee McGinty wrote:
[...]
> There it is in black-and-white...
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
I just wonder what will happen with RISC OS 4 now. Will we be able to get
it for Risc PC - at least? Will they continue developing it (for RPC) at
all?
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
And don't forget developers which already spent some money to develope for
Phoebe (e.g. Aleph One)...
--
_ _ | Acorn Risc PC, StrongARM @ 287 MHz
| | | _, _|__|_ |) ' _, , | 130 Mbyte RAM, >20 Gbyte HD
| | | / | | | |/\ | / | / \ | ------------------------------------
| | |_/\/|_/|_/|_/| |/|/\/|_/ \/ | Buy Acorn - 24 users can't be wrong!
Matthias Seifert
> Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
> appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
> Acorn.
It definitely is taken word by word from a press release of Acorn.
> This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D project has
> ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a Phoebe
> release (but unlikely)?
No, sadly this is a fact.
> If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
> the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
> bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license
> the complete designs to someone?
But who would licence it? I don't see anyone.
> Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
> unix workstation ;-)
I still have mine (as I wasn't about getting a Phoebe).
> A sad day.
That's true because it means that there will be no RPC3 either...
> <in the voice of Homer Simpson>
> You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
--
stu...@quantumsoft.co.uk
> > deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
> > http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
>
> ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made today...
But the top brass made their decision 3 weeks ago....
--
Stuart Halliday
Acorn Cybervillage
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Gary Henderson
Shit!
--
Gary Henderson
- I'd rather be flying my kite!!!!
Gary Henderson
SH*T!
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
<locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> >RPCs going whilst possible, and will probably if I can also buy a peanut
> >with the money saved.
>
> Me too.
I have to say that since AW is 'on hold' (yeah right), that IMS should now
give the Peanut a little more 'clout'. i.e. power. They can and should
afford the extra development time - as there are now MANY MORE people who
will buy one. I was saving for a Phoebe, expecting to get one by the middle
of next year. I could not afford to buy a Peanut as well. But now? Maybe
I'll just save for a Peanut!
APH
--
Science Coursework http://start.at/scirep * Warwick School * * *
Warwick School http://welcome.to/warwick * WARWICK * Physics Dept
Solar System http://travel.to/theplanets * CV34 6PP, UK * 01926 776464
* * * * * * my own views * * * a...@warwick.warwks.sch.uk * * * *
Nicholas Foster
I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter of
closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say I
will gladly buy some tomorrow.
--
Best Wishes,
Nick mailto:ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk
mailto:ni...@weblocust.co.uk
http://www.weblocust.co.uk/ - Web site design and construction for everyone.
Alexander Pinketon
Even though I gave my little cousin my old Acorn when I went 'PC', I always
had a soft spot for the company.
Why, Why, Why... Didn't they make PC's, with RISC OS included as a
'takeover' Emulator (Rather Like the PC cards but in reverse).
Thoughts from Alex Pinkerton
John Stonier
wrote:
> The staff number cut may reflect the fact that the Logistics part of Acorn
> (Accounts, personnel Warehousing) is now going to come under
> Xempler, previously it was the reverse, Xempler used Acorn's warehouse,
> accounts. etc
Two questions come to mind:
I'm wondering how Developers will be treated by Xemplar. Especially those
who produce products that Xemplar decided not to support in schools,
previously.
What technical support will Xemplar be offering to Developers?
Regards, John Stonier....
Andy Marks
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq. <dna...@ni.edam.maps> wrote:
> I have to say that since AW is 'on hold' (yeah right), that IMS should
> now give the Peanut a little more 'clout'. i.e. power. They can and
> should afford the extra development time - as there are now MANY MORE
> people who will buy one. I was saving for a Phoebe, expecting to get one
> by the middle of next year. I could not afford to buy a Peanut as well.
> But now? Maybe I'll just save for a Peanut!
> APH
Ditto. That's all.
--
--------------------------------------------
Andy Marks - and...@argonet.co.uk
Worksop, Nottinghamshire
Very near the World-Famous(?) Creswell Crags
I know, I've been in them!
--------------------------------------------
Rob Hemmings
> <snip>
> >Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
> >whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
> >that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
> You're not.
I'd certainly be prepared to consider some investment. (i.e. Me too!)
(I'm not talking about particularly large sums of money but maybe if
enough people are prepared to put some money where their mouth is...)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Hemmings Southport
Tel: +44 (0)1704 573210 ro...@argonet.co.uk
Andrew Wineberg
I can't express how saddened I am by today's news. I have been using
Acorn kit since the early days of the BBC and, no matter if there should
be a buyout, this represents the end of an era of pioneering computer
hardware development so cruelly cut short just short of its 20th
anniversary. I shall continue to use my Risc PC for as long as possible
and I hope that further desktop RISC OS products are developed.
I don't mind admitting that I was close to tears when I read the
announcement, and, as others, I feel most sorry for the 75 who have lost
their jobs.
I Looking on the bright side, I suppose IMS will now make more sales of
the Peanut with no RPC2 pulling on the purse-strings of many.
--
Andrew Wineberg <A.Win...@BTINTERNET.COM>
<URL:http://www.BTINTERNET.COM/~a.wineberg/> for my portrait and details
AJR Porrer
: I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say I
: will gladly buy some tomorrow.
I imagine the majority of Acorn shareholders are investment banks and the
like who will always go with the accountants (what's best for there
investment), so you would always be outvoted. I recall the incident where
the BBC pension fund as share holders in a privatised gas company voted to
award those huge fat cat pay rises to the bosses.
Andrew
--
Andrew...@Bigfoot.com
Andrew Wineberg
Nicholas Foster <ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter of
> closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
A company must, by law, act "wholly and exclusively for the benefit of
the company." The shareholders are the sovereign body. Individual
shareholders were not consulted about this, but the intention is clear
from reading between the lines in the interim report.
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say I
> will gladly buy some tomorrow.
If the owners of (I think) 10% of the shares (or 10% of the
shareholders?) desire it, the company *must* hold an extraordinary
general meeting at its own expense; shareholders are sovereign and so,
if you are prepared to buy enough shares, you can reverse this. Of
course, you and your supporters will need more than 51% of the shares to
be sure of having control and I suspect that it would be at least an
order of magnitude cheaper to actually buy the Workstations division.
IANAL, etc.
Matt Rix
> Let me just say that I am not [yet] despondent, the news came to us just
> as we were having a staff meeting so "the chaps" could meet my partners
> -- it was certainly a bit of a bombshell but, without being able to go
> into any detail, the reaction was "what are we going to do about it" not
> "oh sh*t let's give up and go home".
I wish you and every other Acorn developer that may or may not feel they
have been shafted by this move every success. I would also like to extend my
sympathies to the Acorn employees that have been made redundant as a result
of this move.
--
Matt Rix ======>> JOIN CONVERGENCE INTERNATIONAL - THE NON-WINTEL USER GROUP:
http://surf.to/bigrisc/ http://www.convergence.org/
To respond by e-mail, first remove "||REMOVE||" from my e-mail address
The Sherratt Clan
Rob Hemmings <rhem...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <na.e81a9d4887.a70...@argonet.co.uk>, Kell Gatherer
> <locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <4887143...@st-and.demon.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> > <jc...@st-and.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > <snip>
> > >Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
> > >whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
> > >that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
>
> > You're not.
> I'd certainly be prepared to consider some investment. (i.e. Me too!)
> (I'm not talking about particularly large sums of money but maybe if
> enough people are prepared to put some money where their mouth is...)
Stephen B Streater of Eidos, and now Forbidden Technologies seems be
interested in setting something up (see Forbidden Technologies thread
further up this NG), but would need more cash.
I for one would be willing to put up a bit of the old folding stuff ( say
N hundred quid) for some shares/discount/whatever.
He says that he'll see what interest there is, so I'd advise those with
_any_ desire at all to see an RPC 2 of any form to hear him out and make
some _constructive_ comments.
TTFN, Karl
Stuart Bell
> I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter of
> closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
>
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say I
> will gladly buy some tomorrow.
That's not the way companies work. Shareholders can appoint and fire
directors, but not make business decisions. Unless, of course, you won
10%+ of a company, in which case you probably nominate a director, or
are one.
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Mike Clarkson
<URL:mailto:y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
> me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
> one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
>
> Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
> Amiga now ? I mean, people are already speculating on IMS possibly
> taking over, or perhaps Steve Turnbull has something to do with it -
> but let's face it, there's simply no third party organisation that's
> even near the size (in people and competence) of Acorn. And we've already
> been criticizing that there're not enough people to
> - Maintain a decent website
> - Develop RiscOS as fast as needed
> - Solve some "outstanding issues", like a proper compiler
> etc etc.
>
> Sob ...
>
> Depressed,
>
Agreed. The long term must be particularly bleak. Presumably the
offers etc. were Chirs Cox & co trying to get enough orders to
persuade the board to keep it going. Maybe we will now be able to
know how many orders were actually placed? And I guess many more
might have been placed at AW after we'd been able to see it and get a
final spec? I would have been one.
As far as Phoebe is concerned, I wonder if there isn't some money to
be made by someone. Acorn would presumably still charge for RiscOS
licensing, but in one sense any money they now get is a bonus, since
they must have written off all development costs. So the question is
how much does a machine cost, and how much could it be sold for? A
small company, which made it clear that support would not be as might
be expected from Acorn, could ship quite nicely, I guess. *But* would
anyone buy one, knowing (almost) for certain that it is a dead-end
product? I posted here a while back to the effect that much of the
angst over Phoebe's spec etc. was because we feared it might be the
last - now we know it would/will be. Maybe the real writing on the
wall is in the 500 MIP ARM thread - if RiscOS won't go beyond the
current SA1s, then whatever Acorn had done with Phoebe, it would have
been curtains...
--
Mike Clarkson.
Wayne Bagguley
Liam Gretton <l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
> <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> > report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> > back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
>
> It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
>
> Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
>
BeOS isn't bad.
:_(
--
_
( _ _ http://www.majic12.demon.co.uk/acorn/
_)| |(_)(_/\_) snow...@majic12.demon.co.uk
Wayne Bagguley
Liam Gretton <l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> > people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> > their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
>
> It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
> released. I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
> resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
> not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
>
I feel very sorry for everyone who's poured their heart and soul
into Acorn at any time.
There's not a lot you can say really.
--
:_(
Wayne Bagguley
Nigel Parker <95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
> appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
> Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D
> project has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a
> Phoebe release (but unlikely)?
>
> If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
> the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
> bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
> complete designs to someone?
>
> Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
> unix workstation ;-)
>
> A sad day.
>
> <in the voice of Homer Simpson>
> You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
<in the voice of Eric Cartman>
Sonofabitch!
or
Goddammit!
<in the voices of Kyle and Stan>
Oh my God!
They've killed Pheobe!
You bastards!
--
:_(
Wayne Bagguley
Fat German <mgre...@madge.com> wrote:
> Mark Koek wrote:
>
> > Man.
> >
> > This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it
> > actually makes sense. You employ some people who could be making you an
> > enormous lot of money, but instead of that you're fighting an uphill
> > struggle against the M$ giant and are actually making a loss. It makes
> > sense to redirect your efforts towards more attainable goals.
>
> The world would be a nice place if accountants did not rule it. Nobody does
> blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just because it's fun.
> It's all about profit. It all stinks.
Life stinks.
--
:_(
Kim G. S. OEyhus
Clockmeister <gerr...@tnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>Remember that the Amiga was in nowhere land for four years, and with only a
>handfull of hardware developers keeping the machine competetive it
>survived.
>
>As an Amiga user I would have to suggest you stay loyal to your platform,
>even if Acorn hasn't. If there is a potential market someone may snap it
>up.
The Amiga had hardware and OS which had serious limitations for growth,
such as special 18bit circuits and no memory management. The ARM and
RiscOS do not have this limitations, and it should therefore be
easier to keep them alive than the Amiga.
Sure, there is that 32bit limitation, but I will be happy to run
RiscOS on my watch :-)
Kim0
Dave Cooper
<Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
>
> They also seem to be clammering for more people to place orders for the
> machine. I guess they didn't get enough orders and thought it wasn't
> > Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation
> division.
> > Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue
> as
> > "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
> >
> Barry
>
Surely it was too soon to say 'not enough orders' - I mean with the deadline
at end of October and the chance to see Phoebe in action at the London show
there must have been many of us (myself included) who would have been
putting down our deposits then with either our local dealer or the one
offering the 'best' extras.
I'm gutted!!
A buy-out with Chris Cox Dave Walker and Peter Bonbar (if he could be got
back) could surely work - especially if the Acorn dealers could buy-in as
well.
I' gutted!!
Also what about the people who have just sold their kit -say 2000UKPs worth
at purchase and sold for 700 to 800 UKPs ready for Phoebe?
I'm gutted!!
Regards, Dave C.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ ______________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / StrongArm Risc Pc (586 PcCard) Clan & MAUG.
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | / ArgoRing.AcornRing.Interests-Comp.Sat.AV.SF
___________________________/ Classical music & Wine. d...@argonet.co.uk
Homepage (inc.free photos) http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dac/index.html
Dave Cooper
Nigel Parker <95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
> the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
> bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
> complete designs to someone?
>
> A sad day.
> Nigel
>
If Steve Jobs can come back and 'save' Apple - what about Herman Hauser
coming back to save Acorn. He's probably got the money and likes to suppost
'venture' capital and new products.
I was hoping/expecting to see Phoebe in action at Acorn World and then to
place my 500UKP deposit with one of the dealers.
I would have put my deposit down earlier but the shares I was selling to
fund the deal dropped at about the same time - I thought waiting until the
show was best.
It is really sad - especially with a number of positive items out recently -
ie. a StrongArm 2 and 3 talked of, the speed of the new Arm 9 and 10 and the
soon to be developed Amulet 3.
I feel very sorry for the staff of the Workstation division and wish them
well.
John Rees
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say
> I will gladly buy some tomorrow.
Unfortunately, you would probably be out voted by the institutional
investors like the pension companies. When Rover was sold to B.M.W., at the
share holder's meeting to rubber stamp the Rover Group Board desicion, the
hall was pacted with small investors who wanted to preserve the bBritish Car
Industry. Their votes were swomped by the votes of three or four insurance
companies.
This comes at a very bad time, as the world economy is in such a
state. A few months ago, I would have expected an Asian OEM to snap the
Workstation Group up, but they have problems of their own.
--
John Campbell Rees
<jw...@argonet.co.uk> http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jwcr/index.htm
"Just like swatting flies with a laser cannon. The aims a bit tricky, but it sure takes care of the flies" - Lord Miles Vorkosigan from "Komarr" by Lois McMaster Bujold
Andrew Hill
>
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee McGinty wrote:
>
> But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
I'm probably unduly wishing to attempt to be positive, but :
Acorn are /supposed/ to be a technology industry, right? If all this
information is correct, why isn't it yet on the Acorn Workstations
Ltd.'s press releases (checked 17/09/98 at 8:15)? I find this all a
little incredulous. Perhaps I'm being too much of an optimist, but it
makes zero sense. You spend a research budget of millions, get a project
95% of the way to completion, put an offer out to Clan members on the
price, change the name and then just a week or so later shelve it ?!? I
know nothing about marketing at this kind of scale, but surely allowing
Phoebe to reach production stage should pay back at least some of the
money spent on it, even if the sales figures are shockingly
disappointing - certainly more than scrapping it now would be.
I'm not a natural conspircay theorist, but - what's the ulterior motive
here? Alternatively, have the lunatics truly taken over the Acorn asylum
once and for all? Also, if the press report is to be believed 100% (and
I'm a big believer in believing half of what you see and even less of
what you hear,) why would Acorn World be 'postponed'? If you were going
to effectively kill off your market - which is presumably what scrapping
the Phoebe would be doing, you'd either let AW go ahead regardless, or
you would cancel since you had nothing further to offer - not postpone.
IMHO - I'd wait for further, more informed press releases before
trooping off to PeeCee World, folks...(joke - I've no intention...)
TTFN (and heres hopin')
Andrew
--
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ _ __ __| |_ _______ /\ __ | |_| |(_)| || |
/ _ \ | '_ \ / _` | '__/ \ \/ \/ / | _ | _ | || |
/ ___ \| | | | (_| | | | (_/\ /\ / | | | || || || |
|/ \_|_| |_|\____|_| \__| \/ \/ |_| |_||_||_/|_/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrew Hill, MH Software. Look out for Imogen...
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
<ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say I
> will gladly buy some tomorrow.
Buy some anyway - now more than ever, as the price has bottomed-out in a
turbulent market. The decision to shelve the Workstation division was a GOOD
ONE as far as profits were concerned. Therefore the share price will now
rise - as it did today (and as the market itself fell 3%).
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
<nos...@wymondham.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes that is a minus figure. The city must like the announcement though
> as Acorn's share price rise slightly today whereas ARM's fell.
The FTSE nose-dived 3% (again), so ARM went down with it. Acorn climbed a
full 1%.
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
<kshe...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Stephen B Streater of Eidos, and now Forbidden Technologies seems be
> interested in setting something up (see Forbidden Technologies thread
> further up this NG), but would need more cash.
What about the BBC? How about turning Phoebe into another Beeb? That would
be SO good to see...
Simon John
> I just wonder what will happen with RISC OS 4 now. Will we be able to get
> it for Risc PC - at least? Will they continue developing it (for RPC) at
> all?
Yeah, I was wondering that - it must be finished, but is it so tightly linked
to the VIDC20R and IOMD2 etc. that it would not work in a SA-RiscPC? What
about Galileo - that is supposed to backwards compatible to the RiscPC and
A7000....
Acorn say they will continue producing the RiscPC (presumably just the J233),
but what about the A7000+, NC, Pocket Book II..... And who actually produces
the Medi - it's not IMS who do the Peanut is it?
And also - what's going to happen to Browse and Java - I heard a *rumour*
that Browse was supposed to be updated to v2.07 with Java[ECMA]Script 1.1 for
AW98 and Java was supposed to getting to 1.2 when Sun release it from beta.
I suppose loads of people will be off to buy Corel's ARM Linux based Java
machines now....
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
Byte me.
Ian Scott
> In article <3603eb9b....@news.dircon.co.uk>, Lee McGinty
> <URL:mailto:l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> >
> >
> > Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
>
> I can confirm most of the above, BUT
>
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
Excellent. As much much as I love my SA Risc PC, I hate to think that some
day I may have to move over to another platform.
> There have been rumours within Acorn of a MBO (Management Buy Out) and
> today I've heard of possible some previous employee involvement, hopefully
> this will materialise.
Yes. Please. If I had the money, I would do it, even for no profit.
> Another company from outside Acorn, is now looking seriously at buying the
> Workstation division, I have been reliable informed (I can't say anymore,
> except I am not personally involved)
Very good news.
> SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
Excellent.
> I would expect a 1-2 Month delay in Phoebe.
Dissapointing, but I would be willing to wait for a Phoebe because my current
Risc PC isn't redundant yet.
> The ASIC IOMD2 apparently worked first time, and the finishing touches were
> being done.
Good.
> Apparently the board which is headed up by an Accountant! did not want to
> commit funds to manufacturing? They are focussing on Digital TV.
Idiot!
> As a knock on result Acorn World 98 will not go ahead, BUT another show
> may? Again I can say nothing more yet.
I was looking forward to it as well. A friend even bought a few of us
non-refundable train tickets.
> Acorn are to continuing Production of RiscPC 1's.
Good.
Please keep us informed of future developments. Especially good ones!
Ian Scott.
--
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( S | o | u | n | d | s ) ( R | i | s | c | y ) http://come.to/sounds.riscy
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/
To reply remove the "m" from com.uk
Di Hillage
MSoft products, have noted that it seems so easy to achieve results on my
Acorn that they find extremely difficult to achieve on their Windoze
machines.
Maybe that's the root of the problem ? Too many people worried about
developing newer and fancier hardware when what we have had for some years
actually enables the majority of users to meet their needs with the minimum
of hassle..
Hang on to your s/h RISCPCs chaps ! If past records of such products as the
BBC micro and the A3000 are anything to go by, they'll still be useful in
ten years time... even if W98 is working by then !
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ dhil...@argonet.co.uk
Frank Jukes
Andrew Berry <and...@metallinks.com> wrote:
> In article <ant171336965Q9#H...@sarpc.local.net>, email
> <URL:mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ant1713460b0q#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> > <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and
> > > taking deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages
> > > at http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
> >
> > ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made
> > today...
> Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
> announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
The Annual(?) Report which shareholders got a few days ago practically
told us what was about to happen. I read it and re-read it and couldn't
quite put my finger on what they were telling us by not telling us (if
you see what I mean!). It was all there. The close look at what was, and
what was not, making money; and the desire to divest themselves of
unprofitable parts.
It's all absolutely clear now.
B*gger.
Good luck to the very talented people who have just lost their jobs.
Frank
BTW, I bought Betamax, BSB and Acorn .....
--
Frank Jukes
Frank Jukes
> I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter
> of closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a
> say I will gladly buy some tomorrow.
This one hasn't.
:-(
Frank
--
Frank Jukes
John Waddell
<URL:mailto:snow...@majic12.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant17132...@xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk>
> Liam Gretton <l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> > > people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> > > their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
> >
> > It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
> > released. I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
> > resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
> > not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
> >
>
> I feel very sorry for everyone who's poured their heart and soul
> into Acorn at any time.
>
> There's not a lot you can say really.
>
I share the views expressed that it would be a travesty if the RISC OS
machines we know and love were to disappear altogether. I wonder why some
have commented that, because of the anouncement, they are off to change OS,
to abandon their machines and to give up. I also express sympathy for those
about to be made redundant. I hope they secure continuous employment
through speedy transfer to other companies.
Some 12/13 years ago I bought my BBC B on the very day that Acorn went bust
and before Olivetti stepped in. That machine is still going strong. The
A310 I bought is still going strong. The A410 I bought is still going
strong, the RPC700 I bought is still going strong, in fact, I have still to
pluck up the courage to StrongArm it and I envisage it will keep going for a
good number of years yet. All these machines except the RPC have been
inherited by my children and I anticipate, being pretty robust (the machines
not the children!) that they will keep going for some time yet. Look at the
strong interest still around for BBC B kit and software.
Any advice I require has come either from Beebug, Norwich Computer Services,
CJE Micros - the firms from whom I bought the machines (except the beeb,
that was off the shelf from WH Smith!) - or more recently from the very
helpful and enthusiastic base of acorn newsgroup and mailling list
contributors on the net.
I use a limited range of software for all my needs and the magazines, PDware
add occasional bits and pieces.
Surely these groups, the mags and the software enthusiasts will continue to
use the kit and to participate?
There must be a strong base of enthusiasts with modest aspirations, like me,
who intend to stay with the hardware and software - there is probably a
large silent majority, some not even on the net yet.
Let's not commit suicide or abandon ship just yet!
--
John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire
Ross Tierney
<URL:mailto:mgre...@madge.com> wrote:
> Mark Koek wrote:
>
> The world would be a nice place if accountants did not rule it.
A truer phrase was never spoke.
> Nobody does blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just
> because it's fun.
That, on the other hand, 'aint quite true. We have, and we do at Eidos
Technologies. We wouldn't have continued using Acorns otherwise - we're
enthusiasts doing jobs we really like doing.
Shame an era is over though. Now Optima will need to find a new home. And
before anybody asks, no we'll never let it go to the home Mega$oft.
> It's all about profit. It all stinks.
Yeah, thats true. *Everything* became a business in the 80's. World's never
been quite right since.
I s'pose I can understand that 3 million quid is now a lot of dough for
Acorn to stump-up to put the RPC2 into production, but still; it WAS the
last ttrue-blue (or yellow) British computer system.
I give 'Acorn' now about 12 months. Sooner if this coming recession really
starts to bite.
Nice knowin' ya' Acorn. R.I.P.
---===---
Now who'd going to replace you? :)
Ross Tierney.
r...@eidos.co.uk "...Breathing in... Breathing out..."
kra...@argonet.co.uk -An Old Friend
Ross Tierney
<URL:mailto:locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant17195...@webracer.xs4all.nl>, Tony Hopstaken
> <webr...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> >Maybe *that* is the point. I may be not as ready as we are made to
> >believe......
>
> No, that's the point. THIS WEEK they had the first Phoebe up and running.
> Or so I'm told.
They did. It seemed to be mainly working.
As I heard, they had some work remaining to do to perfect it, but it was
okay. Then they had to tool-up for the production run. The figures are easy
to work out:
2000 units (that *IS* small quantities) at roughly a grand a pop. That 2
mil, just to manufacture the first batch. Of that, probably 200 quid was
just the IOMD II cost, and 100 was the new VIDC. With an outlay of that on
the books, their figures at the end of this coming quarter would look pretty
dire IMHO.
Plain suicidal move IMHO too. They seem to have chosen short-term gains in
favour of longer-term existance.
I don't think Acorn can 'grow' in this market if they just become a
consultancy business.Thera are too many others with far more clout and
financial backing to play in the big league they want to.
I've backed Acorn for almost 10 years now. I've devoted my career (and some
would say my life) to furthering it and it's products. I feel like I've just
been kicked in the teeth by my best friend.
I'm now looking for a *BETTER* friend.
For all those feeling the same way as me; a word of confidence: There are
some coming along soon now. Just you wait and see.
Ross Tierney
> Hi,
>
> I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter of
> closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
Yes, I believe they did. The majority have said they don't want to produce
desktop systems any longer. Acorn are just listening to their owners.
> I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a say
> I will gladly buy some tomorrow.
If the Acorn enthusiast market got together and bought en-mass, they still
wouldn't have enough shares compared with a mid-sized speculator. Sadly it's
a wasted effort.
The *ONLY* way for the Phoebe to be salvaged now is for somebody to get a
few million together, buy the project and put it into production with
virtually no support from Acorn. That'd be a massive risk now that the
market has no confidence IMHO.
Even then, there's F-all chance of seeing 'the old gal' before about
June/July next year. Who's going to wait that long for a computer that was
due actually last year?
Even throwing 5 mil at the project would only guarantee it for the beginning
of next year. Which one company has that sort of clout and the interest in
the Acorn market to do it?
There's only the one to be brutaly honest. *THEY* just cancelled the
project.
Darren Salt
Steve Turnbull <st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Let me just say that I am not [yet] despondent, the news came to us just as
> we were having a staff meeting so "the chaps" could meet my partners -- it
> was certainly a bit of a bombshell but, without being able to go into any
> detail, the reaction was "what are we going to do about it" not "oh sh*t
> let's give up and go home".
Well, that at least is positive... Me? I was hoping to upgrade in a year or
two. I still am, though it's looking somewhat more remote.
I fully intend to keep my Risc PC. I intend to keep developing software. If
I'm still using this machine in ten years' time, fine. Any platform
change required by circumstance (failure of irreplacable hardware) will be to
Linux...
[tagline]
> ... Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Accountants?
--
| Darren Salt anti-UCE | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Acorn Risc PC, A3010, | ds@zap,uk,eu,org | Northumberland
| Spec+3, BBC Master 128 | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk | Toon Army
| Retrocomputing: a PC card in a Risc PC
"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?"
Darren Salt
Mark Koek <mk...@wi.leidenuniv.nl> wrote:
> Man.
> This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it actually
> makes sense. [...]
> Acorn computers always had some sort of base in the UK Education market,
> but the signs there weren't very encouraging any more, with the UK
> Government rubbing up to Bill Gates so publicly.
The idiots running the country, in general, don't know any better.
> But all I can really think of is that it's so terribly, immensely,
> horribly, unbelievably unfair. This, apparently, is what you get for
> producing quality.
Yes. Produce quality, get stomped on. Produce dross, be successful. What a
wonderful lesson we've been taught.
> It's a sad day.
:-(
(Although hopefully one of the buy-out/takeover rumours will prove to hold
quite a lot of new machines...)
--
| Darren Salt anti-UCE | nr. Ashington, | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| Acorn Risc PC, A3010, | Northumberland | ds@zap,uk,eu,org
| Spec+3, BBC Master 128 | Toon Army | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk
| This line reserved for future expansion
"Data, I thought you were dead!" "No, sir, I rebooted."
Darren Salt
Andrew Wineberg <A.Win...@BTINTERNET.COM> wrote:
[snip]
> Looking on the bright side, I suppose IMS will now make more sales of the
> Peanut with no RPC2 pulling on the purse-strings of many.
...and I wonder what the profits from this could possibly be ploughed into?
--
| Darren Salt anti-UCE | nr. Ashington, | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| Acorn Risc PC, A3010, | Northumberland | ds@zap,uk,eu,org
| Spec+3, BBC Master 128 | Toon Army | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk
| This line reserved for future expansion
Ten million years, and the Vogons arrive with five minutes to go...
Alan Harvey
<URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Nicholas Foster <ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter of
> > closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
> >
> > will gladly buy some tomorrow.
>
> directors, but not make business decisions. Unless, of course, you won
> 10%+ of a company, in which case you probably nominate a director, or
> are one.
As a Shareholder - bought at 2.5 x current price :( , I was rather worried
whan I got the results yesterday which stated :-
Value of Acorn's share of ARM = 145p per share
Acorn's current price (approx)= 83p per share
Value of Acorn = MINUS 62p per share
I thought Phoebe would change all that but someone got cold feet.....
--
Keep the faith
Alan Harvey
Ian Molton
Kell Gatherer <locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Two companies: Acorn pursuing digital TV & thin-client solutions, and
> Acorn Workstations Ltd, making desktop computers. This is a split of
> their expertise, and may lead to key Acorn people jumping ship....
I think most of Acorns truely innovative people came to them through their
desktop computers. Without the desktop computers, Acorn will not have such
talented people knocking on their door.
--
-Ian aka Lennier
Acorn Computers, the best in the world
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/
BaBe - Women's human rights organisation in Croatia
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/babe/
Preferences: Cats, Zap, Purple, Aspie
Ian Molton
Rob Hemmings <rhem...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
> > >whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money
> > >in that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
> > You're not.
> I'd certainly be prepared to consider some investment. (i.e. Me too!)
> (I'm not talking about particularly large sums of money but maybe if
> enough people are prepared to put some money where their mouth is...)
I'd sertainly buy a Phoebe if someone takes up the challenge (ie. Me me
too....)
Ian Molton
Wayne Bagguley <snow...@majic12.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > <in the voice of Homer Simpson>
> > You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
> <in the voice of Eric Cartman>
> Sonofabitch!
> or
> Goddammit!
> <in the voices of Kyle and Stan>
> Oh my God!
> They've killed Pheobe!
> You bastards!
<Delenn>
Faith Manages.
Ian Molton
Ross Tierney <kra...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm now looking for a *BETTER* friend.
I'm looking at chaltech....
David...@thepentagon.com
> > I was just wondering if the share holders have any say in the matter
> > of closing the workstations division and stopping the RISC PC 2.
>
> > I don't own any shares at the moment but if the share holders have a
> > say I will gladly buy some tomorrow.
>
> This one hasn't.
>
> :-(
Sorry to say it folks, but the sorry truth is that the workstations division
has blatantly been unprofitable for a while and the development costs of the
Phoebe would never have been covered by the number of buyers. It's a straight
cut business decision for the big chiefs at Acorn, their job is to keep the
company profitable and they weren't, so they did. Unfortunately for us
enthusiasts (read 'worshippers') there is no excuse as to why they have cut
their losses and run. We can only hope that perhaps there will be a take over
of the workstation division, with so much of the Phoebe already developed
there might be less costs to absorb by a potential buyer. Or by IMS and the
developers of Medi, with a 3rd party work station division. Even this would
probably be very short lived and result in little profit for the new
developers, it would be purely an act of faith.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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and...@planetfall.demon.co.uk
Paul Vigay <pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <3600F757...@tenet.co.uk>, Dave Vint
> <URL:mailto:da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lee McGinty wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> > >
> > > Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> > > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
> >
> >
> >
http://quote.bloomberg.com/analytics/bquote.cgi?story_num=603780470&view=story&v
ersion
> > =front.quote.uk.cfg
>
> Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and taking
> deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
> http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
> Paul Vigay Computer Advice,
> __\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
> http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
> -----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
>
>
<cynic>
Maybe because they just fired .. sorry made redundant .. the chaps who update
the web pages
</cynic>
On the up side, I still have money for both the phoebe and the Peanut, and I
am still hoping to get a Medi in the new year.
I feel the Acorn Platform has just started the climb into its coffin, but I'm
going to keep investing my money into it, for now at least.
I do feel sorry for all those people who have invested their time and money
into "our platform", namely (among many others): Aleph 1, Steve Turnbull and
those who no longer work at Acorn.
My thought really is one that Steve Turnbull said else where in this thread:
"not shall we roll over and die, but what shall we do about it".
Andrew .. @planetfall.demon.co.uk
Stuart Bell
> The Amiga had hardware and OS which had serious limitations for growth,
> such as special 18bit circuits and no memory management. The ARM and
> RiscOS do not have this limitations, and it should therefore be
> easier to keep them alive than the Amiga.
The future of any similar product depends not on the nuances of the
technology, but on who can hammer out a deal in a baordroom / over the
golf course etc etc.
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.