ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
Josh Ehrnwald
W. is off buying the election... (Taken from The Onion
website, BTW)
<begin article>
=======================================================
18 October 2000
AUSTIN, TX--Republican presidential candidate George
W. Bush was aghast to learn Monday that the position
of U.S. president, the highest office in the land and
most powerful in the free world, pays just $200,000 a
year.
"That's it?" asked Bush, struggling to comprehend the
figure reported to him by aides. "A measly couple
hundred grand a year? Not per month, even? Because
I've already spent more than $60 million to get this
job. I'll have to be president for 300 years just to
break even."
"I guess I just assumed that a job like that would
have a much bigger salary," continued Bush, shaking
his head. "You know, something like $120 million.
That's what my friend Vance Coffman makes as CEO of
Lockheed Martin, and that's just an aerospace firm,
not a whole country."
Bush was further disturbed to learn that the salary is
not bolstered by incentive clauses.
"Don't I maybe get a 2 percent commission on any
increase in the GNP? No? And there's no bonus for,
say, brokering a Mideast peace accord or vetoing a
certain number of bills?" Bush asked. "Well, at least
the salary's tax-free, right?"
Told that the position's only benefits are free room
and board, unlimited non-personal use of federal
vehicles, and comprehensive health care through the
Navy, Bush threw up his hands and walked out of the
Bush 2000 war room.
"And they wonder why they can't get anyone decent for
that job," Bush told campaign manager Karl Rove during
a hallway tirade. "For Christ's sake, a McDonald's
manager probably makes that much a year."
After calling his father, former president George
Bush, to confirm the $200,000 figure, Bush held an
emergency strategy session with his top advisers to
determine a course of action.
"I can't believe this," Bush told his staff. "I spent
10 years running my dad's oil company at $14 million a
year. Now they tell me that, for running the
U.S.--which, you realize, includes my dad's oil
company, as well as lots of other profitable
businesses--I'd receive a lousy $200,000. Before
taxes. If you ask me, the American people are getting
away with highway robbery here."
Bush asked foreign policy advisor Condoleeza Rice if,
once elected, he could legislate himself a raise. The
answer came as yet another disappointment for the
candidate.
"According to Condoleeza, I can't just vote myself
more money," Bush later told Rove. "She says only
Congress can do that, because of that whole
ratification thing you told me about. Or maybe it was
because of checks and balances--I forget exactly what
she said. Anyway, I can't do it. And, apparently,
charging other nations for military intervention is
just not done, either."
Though he is "pretty sure" he won't drop out of the
race, Bush said massive corporate restructuring is
needed to make the presidential post attractive to top
executives such as himself.
"I guess I'll stay in the race and take the job if I
get it. But, regardless, something's got to be done
about this situation," Bush said. "Aren't there some
agencies we could cut to clear some room under the
salary cap for the president? What does the Department
of the Interior do? That could probably go. Housing
and Urban Development, too. We could probably sell
some congressional skyboxes. That's what we did to get
Nolan [Ryan] when I was running the [Texas] Rangers."
"I know my dad made a bundle off the Gulf War," Bush
continued. "But I guess it wasn't through the job.
I'll have to ask him just exactly how he did it. Maybe
something like that would work again."
=======================================================
<end article>
__________________________________________________
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Mac Breck
Mac
Gharlane of Eddore
In <006901c03dc0$c902e840$29d2...@cobweb.net>
Only when his writers and handlers get enough lead time to write
him some material and rehearse him. On the plus side, at least
he won't be starting wars to get his sex life and his various
felonies off the front page, unlike his predecessor --- since he
wouldn't need to lie to Congress while under oath in an attempt
to preserve his image, suborn perjury, or use government agencies
to intimidate hostile witnesses.
Jms at B5
mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
brushing it aside.
A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
before he falls bigtime....
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2000 by
synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
to reprint specifically denied to
SFX Magazine)
Mike Vanpelt
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the most
>mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
>Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
>having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
>brushing it aside.
>
>A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
>before he falls bigtime....
But there's no controlling legal authority.
--
Yes, I am the last man to have walked on the moon, | Mike Van Pelt
and that's a very dubious and disappointing honor. | mvp.at.calweb.com
It's been far too long. -- Gene Cernan | KE6BVH
John Kocurek
"Shrub. The Short But Happy Political Life of George W. Bush" by Ivins
and Dubois. If a normal person had done what he did, they would have
had a DD from the Guard and a felony conviction for insider trading,
running for President would not have been in the cards. And his brother
, Jeb, is almost as bad. How many people can move to another state with
little more than the clothes on their backs, and have someone just give
them half of a successful business. Of course, having a father who is
President of the US only helps in these matters...
John Kocurek
In article <20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the
most
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior
drug use.
> Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt
from
> having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the
issue,
> brushing it aside.
>
> A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to
go
> before he falls bigtime....
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2000 by
> synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
> to reprint specifically denied to
> SFX Magazine)
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ryan Bloom
It is somewhat better than where some candidates such as Bradley and
Clinton jokingly talk about their drug use while continuing an
inefficient and pricey Drug War.
Ryan Bloom
wrote:
>Hey JMS, here's something to chortle over while George
>W. is off buying the election... (Taken from The Onion
>website, BTW)
And the Democratic Party hasn't tried to either? :-)
Wesley Struebing
>On 24 Oct 2000 06:18:34 -0700, Josh Ehrnwald <jjeh...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Hey JMS, here's something to chortle over while George
>>W. is off buying the election... (Taken from The Onion
>>website, BTW)
>
>And the Democratic Party hasn't tried to either? :-)
>
>
>>
>><begin article>
>>
<SNIP>
<soapbox>
People! Really, do you have to quote an entire article just to add a
one-line comment?
</soapbox>
--
--Take care; faith manages!
--
--Wes Struebing
--
--+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-- str...@americanisp.com
-- ph: 303-343-9006 / FAX: 303-343-9026
-- home page: http://users.americanisp.com/~struebing/
Ryan Bloom
<str...@americanisp.com> wrote:
Sorry, I was watching the teaser of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer when I
was writing :-)
Ryan Bloom
>On 24 Oct 2000 15:52:09 -0700, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>
>It is somewhat better than where some candidates such as Bradley and
>Clinton jokingly talk about their drug use while continuing an
>inefficient and pricey Drug War.
Just some corrections to my post as so I am not chastized later.
Revised version:
It is somewhat better than where some politicians such as Bradley, and
Clinton, jokingly talk about their drug use while advocating the
contiuation of an inefficient and pricey drug war.
Brian Stinson
"I didn't inhale"
"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
Kurtz
> before he falls bigtime....
>
> jms
>
And we can't have THAT in a President, can we?
Mac Breck
From: "Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
> Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the most
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug
use.
IIRC, didn't much of the Clinton Administration somehow circumvent these
tests or make sure the results didn't come out?
> Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
> having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
> brushing it aside.
Isn't it common knowledge that Bush used drugs? That seems to have been
implied by the media in the past (not sure where I heard it)?
> A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
> before he falls bigtime....
Not necessarily. Just look at the Clinton Administration or which Gore is a
part. We now have teflon Bill, and soon we'll probably have teflon Al.
Both can speak out of both sides of their mouth with equal alacrity. See
below.
Mac
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2000 by
> synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
> to reprint specifically denied to
> SFX Magazine)
> > Do We Really Need Another Pathological Liar For
> > President?
> >
> > Reprinted from the Internet News Bureau article
> > "Al Gore's 21 Lies"
> >
> >
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his
> > mother-in-law pays more than $100.00 for the arthritis
> > medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes the
> > same medicine for $37.00, claiming "This is wrong!"
> > FACT: Gore's aides were quick to apologize for Gore's
> > lie, saying the
> > information was from a Democratic study. Washington
> > newspapers also reported that Al Gore wasn't even sure
> > his mother-in-law was taking any medication and wasn't
> > even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn't know
> > anything about his dog's "arthritis".
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a
> > champion of civil rights during the 1960's.
> > FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil
> > Rights Act of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of
> > using the "N" word.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very
> > first person to join the Peace Corps.
> > FACT: By the time Gore's sister joined the Peace Corps,
> > there were already over 100 members.
> >
> > FICTION: The same sister died of lung cancer years
> > later and Gore vowed to never accept tobacco money as
> > campaign contributions.
> > FACT: Just four years later, while campaigning for
> > office, Gore spoke to the tobacco industry and said he
> > was one of them
> > because "I've planted it, raised it, cut it, and dried
> > it." He raised over $100,000 in "reported"
> > contributions.
> >
> > FICTION: While running for office, Gore's campaign
> > literature claimed he was a "Brilliant Student."
> > FACT: Washington newspapers said he barely passed
> > Harvard and consistently earned D's and C's.
> >
> > FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a
> > result of his
> > extensive study at law school.
> > FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.
> >
> > FICTION: Gore claimed that his knowledge of God and
> > spirituality came to complete fruition while
> > "finishing" divinity school.
> > FACT: Al Gore dropped out of divinity school.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore claimed responsibility for inventing
> > the Internet in the 1990's.
> > FACT: Shocked scientists were quick to speak out,
> > explaining that the
> > Internet had been in widespread use by government and
> > educational
> > institutions since the early 1970's.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore claimed the book "Love Story" was
> > based on his life and Tipper's.
> > FACT: Author Erich Segal called a press conference to
> > deny his claim. (Couldn't he at least lie about a love
> > story where his sweetheart doesn't
> > die?"
> >
> > FICTION: Gore claimed that as a reporter for a
> > Nashville newspaper, his stories led to the arrests of
> > numerous corrupt criminals.
> > FACT: He later apologized for his claim and actually
> > said it was untrue (Also known as lying).
> >
> > FICTION: Gore claims to increase diversity in the staff
> > that follows him
> > daily, especially among blacks.
> > FACT: Black members of the Secret Service are suing
> > because they claim they are not being promoted to
> > positions guarding the Vice-President.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore said he was the first to discover the
> > Love Canal nuclear accident.
> > FACT: The incident was already discovered, being
> > investigated, and covered widely in the press for many
> > months before Gore
> > was aware of it.
> >
> > FICTION: Gore said just recently that if elected
> > president, he would put harsh sanctions on the sleazy
> > producers of Hollywood's extreme sex and violence.
> > FACT: Just six days later, Gore attended a fundraiser
> > by Hollywood producers and radical gay activists where
> > he told them that he would only pretend to "nudge them"
> > if elected. He raised over $4 million.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore said he built his Tennessee home with
> > his bare hands.
> > FACT: Totally false!
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore says parents should not have a choice
> > between private and public schools because public
> > schools are far better.
> > TRUTH: Al Gore attended private school and he has sent
> > his children to
> > private schools.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore remembers his mother lulling him to
> > sleep as a baby by singing the popular ditty, "Wear The
> > Union Label."
> > FACT: The popular ditty was created by the unions when
> > Gore was 27 years old.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore claimed to cosponsor the
> > McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Act.
> > FACT: The Act was not sponsored until he had been out
> > of office for over a year.
> >
> > FICTION: Al Gore claims to be instrumental in keeping
> > gas prices low.
> > FACT: Gore has voted on numerous occasions to raise the
> > tax on gasoline. In his book "Earth In The Balance"
> > Gore claims that the nation's Number One enemy is the
> > internal combustion engine. (That's the motor in your
> > vehicle that gets you to work and takes your kids to
> > school)
> >
> > FICTION: Gore pretends to champion the rights of poor
> > women to be tested regularly for breast cancer with the
> > most modern technology.
> > FACT: While giving a speech on the subject in
> > September, Gore didn't know what a mammogram was.
> >
> > FICTION: AL Gore promised Florida's senior citizens
> > that they would finally have low-cost drugs with no
> > interference from government.
> > FACT: Gore's plan calls for the creation of a huge
> > federal agency that would tell you which doctor you are
> > allowed to see in order to get the "special rates."
> >
> > FACT: Al Gore told NBC's Lisa Meyers that he had never
> > told a lie. When Meyers pressed harder, "You've never
> > told a lie?!" Gore said, "Not that I know of." SOUND
> > FAMILIAR?
Pål Are Nordal
>
> In <006901c03dc0$c902e840$29d2...@cobweb.net>
> "Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> writes:
> >
> > So, GWB *can* do stand-up.
>
> Only when his writers and handlers get enough lead time to write
> him some material and rehearse him. On the plus side, at least
> he won't be starting wars to get his sex life and his various
> felonies off the front page, unlike his predecessor -
Seems like president Clintfeld on Mad TV got it right...
"I will do /nothing/!"
"Nothing?!"
"Yes, nothing."
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
B5 Fan
are above the law, when referring to G.w.B. Unless I am mistaken, it was Al
Gore that said there was no controlling legal authority over the executive
branch.
>Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the most
>mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
>
>Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
>having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
>brushing it aside.
>
>A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
>before he falls bigtime....
>
> jms
>
>(jms...@aol.com)
>(all message content (c) 2000 by
>synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
>to reprint specifically denied to
>SFX Magazine)
I wish to register both my disgust at Joseph Lieberman's
attempt to exploit the name of my Lord my God for its brand
value, and my horror at the fact that a VP candidate should be
so deeply blasphemous as to call Al Gore a "mighty servant of God."
LK
wrote:
>I suppose you'd rather have him insult your intellect with something like
>
>"I didn't inhale"
>
You do have to learn to smoke, whether it is cigarettes, or pipe or
cigars. It is not a natural action. Some people swallow the smoke
instead of inhaling--a quick way to an upset stomach. And there are
few us who can't get the hang of taking an irritating substance into
our lungs. And, for that matter, how often to paramedics and
anasethiologists (sp) have to tell people to inhale when giving them
oxygen or even "laughing gas" at the dentist? People do go through
the motions of breathing when they're not really inhaling.
It's sounds a little silly, but does happen, frequently.
LK
LK
>
>"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
>>
>> A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
>> before he falls bigtime....
>>
>> jms
>>
>
>And we can't have THAT in a President, can we?
>
>
No way. Even after studying history and the past scandles in even
Washington's administration, it's always new and a stain on the
republic.
We're supposed to be getting smarter, but neither politics nor
evolution were ever on a course to some magnifcant destiny.
But that's still no excuse for voting in, too much trouble.
Hearing some of the reasons some people use to choose is even more
discouraging than some candiates's and "soft money" sponsored
commericals reasoning. --We've having to become Russian despite
ourselves. Or "To be Irish is to know someday the world will break
your heart."
LK
Gharlane of Eddore
In <20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com>
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) writes:
>
> Y'know what gets me about GBj?
> Any civil servant applying for the most mediocre government job has
> to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
> Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's
> exempt from having to answer that, as he's constantly refused
> to deal with the issue, brushing it aside.
>
Y'know what gets *ME* about George Bush, Junior?
He never went to the U.K. on a squeak-in "Rhodes Scholarship,"
raped a co-ed, got shipped home to the U.S. uncharged, and
put through a watered-down legal education so he could be
a governor when he grew up, and attack nursing-home operators
and beauty-contest winners with fine impunity, and send out
the state police to do pizza runs, bringing bimbos into the
governor's mansion for him to toy with.... all while setting
world records for recreational pharmaceutical consumption.
Apparently this means relatively strait-laced GBjr is complete
anathema to the Hollywood "Liberals" who'd prefer to vote for
lying, stealing, perjuring, perjury-suborning, seemingly
multiple-murdering traitors to their oaths of office who are
willing to place our nation and our people at risk in exchange
for foreign campaign contributions.
But maybe it's just me, and Barbara Streisand and Joe Straczynski
and Alec Baldwin and Susie Sarandon *do* know more about military
management, economics, and ethical behavior than the conservatives,
and have Newer, Better, definitions of "honor" and "service."
But with all due respect to your paramount competence in your
own line of work, I beg leave to doubt that you're in a position
to have a credible opinion on the matter.
>
> A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have
> far to go before he falls bigtime....
>
Oh, you mean like that Arkansas governor who's notorious for how
he treats women who dare to try to tell the truth about him?
The guy you voted for *TWICE*?
Oh, yeah, he's *REAL* law-abiding. One of Nixon's guys did five
years in a federal pen for unauthorized possession of *ONE* FBI
file about a political opponent. The current administration has
been proven to have been in possession of HUNDREDS, and I have yet
to hear about anyone being pilloried for it.
Try to develop some perspective, Joe... you let Old Joe Kennedy's
"Camelot" P.R. Machine brainwash you when you were a kid, and you've
never recovered. For once in your life, just step back a bit
and *try* to achieve an objective viewpoint, *READ* the U.S.
Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and *THINK* about whether
your hero violated his oath of office when he signed that so-called
"Communications Decency Act" into law. You, and everybody else in
Jolly Weird, *should* have been out to lynch him *and* Congress
over that one.
>
> jms
>
Ghu knows I'm no great fan of the Junior Shrub, but watching "Liberals"
gripe when he declines to pull the trigger on a media steamroller they've
been trying to unleash since day one certainly makes me feel better about
my own choice for this election.
By the way, Joe, are you aware that there appears to be a good chance
for all of California's 54 electoral votes to go to the Bush?
You've got two weeks to eat vegetarian and get some aerobic exercise,
so the election results won't put you in the cardiac ward. Trust me,
we'd sooner see you healthy and writing ( even if you are massively
unclear on a number of concepts ) since you're a good guy and often
one of our great storytellers.
J. Potts
wrote:
>I suppose you'd rather have him insult your intellect with something like
>
>"I didn't inhale"
In article <8leevs4d3vj3b03c3...@4ax.com>,
LK <founta...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You do have to learn to smoke, whether it is cigarettes, or pipe or
>cigars. It is not a natural action. Some people swallow the smoke
>instead of inhaling--a quick way to an upset stomach. And there are
>few us who can't get the hang of taking an irritating substance into
>our lungs. And, for that matter, how often to paramedics and
>anasethiologists (sp) have to tell people to inhale when giving them
>oxygen or even "laughing gas" at the dentist? People do go through
>the motions of breathing when they're not really inhaling.
>
>It's sounds a little silly, but does happen, frequently.
Yep. My dad said that when he first joined the Navy he started smoking
cigarettes. He never had a problem quitting and would only smoke if
pressured by his peers. That is until the day that someone explained to
him that he was suppose to inhale the smoke rather than just suck it into
his mouth. *Then* he got addicted. However, years later when he learned
how bad smoking was for your health, he did finally give up smoking for
good.
--
JRP
"How many slime-trailing, sleepless, slimy, slobbering things do you know
that will *run and hide* from your Eveready?"
--Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson
Andrew Swallow
writes:
>>
>>A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
>>before he falls bigtime....
>
>But there's no controlling legal authority.
>
He can be impeached or thrown out after 4 years.
Providing someone tells the US people what Bush junior has done before the next
election.
Andrew Swallow
Reed Snellenberger
most mediocre government job" (a point that seems to have escaped Gore)
and those regulations don't apply to him at all (IOW, he *is* exempt).
So the yammering about him "thinking he's above the law" is just that...
Bush has basically said that he's been "clean" since since some date in
the mid-70's (I think), and that the time before that is none of
anyone's damn business and don't vote for him if you don't like that
answer.
Nobody has been able to dig up any reliable source that says he used
anything stronger than booze during at any time (and several classmates
at Yale who said he was too much of a straight-arrow for that) -- you'd
think the Terry Lenzner would have been very busy trying to dig up that
evidence during the past year...
In the case of Gore, on the other hand, we have a candidate who says he
only inhaled a little bit prior to 1972 -- and friends and associates
who've said that he smoked quite a bit after that
(http://www.tennessean.com/sii/00/01/25/gore25.shtml for more info).
Why not find policy reasons to dislike him, rather than disliking things
about him that you've made up? Seems like a waste of good creativity...
Jms at B5 wrote:
>
> Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the most
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
> Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
> having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
> brushing it aside.
>
> A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
> before he falls bigtime....
>
Brian Stinson
" It depends on the definition of the word 'is' "
"Brian Stinson" <blee...@swbell.net> wrote in message news:...
> I suppose you'd rather have him insult your intellect with something like
>
> "I didn't inhale"
>
>
> "Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
Brian Stinson
" I had to Pee "
Paul McElligott
(I don't know, not having applied for a government job), this is wrong
in my view. Personally, I don't give a rat's patootie if Gore or Bush
shared a bong all through college.
In article <20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> Any civil servant applying for the most
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior
drug use.
>
--
Paul McElligott
---
Two Rules to Live By:
1. "Never Get Out of the Boat."
2. "Charlie Doesn't Surf!"
Paul McElligott
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
In article <02e001c03e9c$852b4680$bdd2...@cobweb.net>,
--
Paul McElligott
http://www.terrafed.com
Note: No toads were strangled in the posting of this message.
Chris Miller
of both sides of his mouth...
> > > FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a
> > > champion of civil rights during the 1960's.
> > > FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil
> > > Rights Act of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of
> > > using the "N" word.
Gore's father was a pioneering leader in civil rights. Unfortunately, he
did lose his nerve when it came to the Civil Rights Act, but that was the
only blemish on his (until recently) universally accepted leadership on
civil rights. As for the "N" word: even if the hearsay reports of its use
are correct, they must be understood in the context of the time when they
were uttered - as forbidden as it is now, it was once in quite standard
usage (unfortunately).
> > > FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very
> > > first person to join the Peace Corps.
> > > FACT: By the time Gore's sister joined the Peace Corps,
> > > there were already over 100 members.
Gore's sister worked without pay for the Peace Corps from its first days.
She joined the paid staff later, when there were already 100 members.
> > > FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a
> > > result of his extensive study at law school.
> > > FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.
And? You can do extensive study without earning a degree.
> > > FICTION: Al Gore claimed responsibility for inventing
> > > the Internet in the 1990's.
> > > FACT: Shocked scientists were quick to speak out,
> > > explaining that the
> > > Internet had been in widespread use by government and
> > > educational institutions since the early 1970's.
Al Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet." In fact, Gore was a leading
congressional supporter of funding for the 'Nets computer structure at the
time, which even prominent republicans have admitted. From the entirety of
his quote (rarely used), it is obvious that Gore is referring to
congressional work, rather than technical work. Also, Gore's service in
Congress is hardly limited to the 1990's, and he made no such claim as to
the timing of his funding work. Finally, the "shocked scientists" are
exaggerating if they claim that the Internet (not known by that name at the
time) was in "widespread" use in the early 70's. These same scientists have
heatedly confirmed that Gore recognized the significance of the Internet
long before his compatriots, and did indeed take the initiative in doing the
political work and articulating the public vision that made the Internet
possible in its current form.
> > > FICTION: Al Gore claimed the book "Love Story" was
> > > based on his life and Tipper's.
> > > FACT: Author Erich Segal called a press conference to
> > > deny his claim. (Couldn't he at least lie about a love
> > > story where his sweetheart doesn't die?"
During a long conversation on Air Force Two with reporters, Gore is reported
to have let slip that his and Tipper's life was the inspiration for "Love
Story". In fact, Gore was mentioning a Nashville article that inaccurately
made that claim, and was careful to maintain that he had only the article to
go on. Segal, when asked about the article, said that the hero of "Love
Story" was partially based on Gore, but that the heroine had nothing to do
with Tipper. Segal did NOT call a press conference to deny Gore - the
conference was intended to clarify the Nashville article. This statement
from Segal has been quoted as a refutation of Gore's "lie", whereas in fact
it partially supports the erroneous article that Gore mentioned. Gore
neither originated nor confirmed the false report.
> > > FICTION: Gore claimed that as a reporter for a
> > > Nashville newspaper, his stories led to the arrests of
> > > numerous corrupt criminals.
> > > FACT: He later apologized for his claim and actually
> > > said it was untrue (Also known as lying).
His stories did lead to the arrest of two corrupt criminals. He apologized
for misremembering and exaggerating the number of arrests.
> > > FICTION: Al Gore said he was the first to discover the
> > > Love Canal nuclear accident.
> > > FACT: The incident was already discovered, being
> > > investigated, and covered widely in the press for many
> > > months before Gore was aware of it.
Gore told students in New Hampshire the story of a Tennessee community
activist who brought his attention to a toxic dump. Gore then looked for
other examples, found Love Canal, and held the first hearings on the issue.
He did NOT claim to have started the issue - he was correctly giving credit
to the activists. He also did not claim to have discovered the pollution at
Love Canal. He DID bring it to the attention of Congress.
> > > FICTION: Al Gore said he built his Tennessee home with
> > > his bare hands.
> > > FACT: Totally false!
Gore told The Des Moines Register that he learned to slop hogs and clear
land on the family farm. Friends of his later told reporters that Gore's
father had kept him on a backbreaking work schedule during summers on the
farm. Both of these claims are absolutely true and well-documented. The
"bare hands" comment is another media fabrication.
> > > FICTION: Al Gore remembers his mother lulling him to
> > > sleep as a baby by singing the popular ditty, "Wear The
> > > Union Label."
> > > FACT: The popular ditty was created by the unions when
> > > Gore was 27 years old.
Gore told a union audience that his mother sang the "union label" song to
him as a child. From his tone of presentation and the reaction of the
crowd, it was clearly intended and understood by all present to be a joke.
The fact that it has been represented as anything other than a joke is
inexcusably irresponsible journalism.
Then, of course, there are GWBj's lies. The following list of statements,
all false, are drawn just from the first two debates. There are far more to
be found throughout the campaign.
Gore is outspending him.
The rate of uninsured people is falling in Texas, and rising nationally.
The men who killed James Byrd will definitely be put to death.
Middle-income seniors will get drug coverage immediately under his Medicare
plan.
Gore lied about this plan.
The new spending in his budget plan is equal to the tax cuts.
Most of the tax reductions in his plan go to the people at the bottom end of
the economic ladder.
The president is unable to influence the actions of the FDA.
Hillary Clinton's 1993 health insurance plan would have entailed
nationalizing health care.
Gore claimed to be the author of the EITC law.
The GOP is no stranger to character assassination, and unfortunately have
managed to do a good job on Al Gore. Gore would hardly be a perfect
president (although he may be the best available option), but he deserves
better than to have his character maligned in this way. All politicians are
guilty of exaggeration and spin - Gore's reported examples prove to be false
far more often than is the norm. Combine that truth with Bush's pattern of
attack, dishonesty, vagueness, and ignorance, and it is clear to me that Al
Gore is a better man, and would make a better president, than George W.
Bush.
Reed Snellenberger
> snipping a much better response than mine...
Thank you...
You might also possibly enjoy Jonah Goldberg's article today at National
Review Online at
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg102500.shtml
"It bothers me that Lanny Davis hasn't been eaten by wolverines that can
only live off the flesh of remorseless liars. "
Reed
John Kocurek
use disclosure requirement, have you seen any proof? The list of 21
Gore Lies would carry greater weight if those things were actually
said see this link
http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.The.New.Science.of.C.html
Besides, the list of Bush's deliberate mis-statements is very long, I
live in the Great State of Texas and I could go on for a very long time.
Some quick ones. Dubya more or less claimed credit for the Child Health
Insurance Program, he vetoed it, twice. He also more or less claimed
credit for the Patient Bill of Rights, he also vetoed it. On both of
these is where he showed exactly how he could get bi-partisan
co-operation, both parties got together enough votes so that they could
over-ride his vetoes. There are more, like his claim that the Gore
campaign was outspending him 2 to 1. Even if you count the "soft"
money, this is still false. Try checking some actual facts.
John Kocurek
Gharlane of Eddore
In <39F752AB...@aspentech.com> Reed Snellenberger
Thanks for the pointer! The one I liked has become a .sig file....
==================================================================
|| ||
|| "It bothers me that if Hillary Clinton ate a live puppy ||
|| on television while taking a bribe from a Klansman, some ||
|| feminist would say, 'Isn't she wonderful?'" ||
|| ||
|| -- Jonah Goldberg, NRO, 10/25/00 ||
|| ||
==================================================================
Mac Breck
From: "John Kocurek" <j...@selec.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
> The claim was made that the Clinton Whitehouse circumvented the drug
> use disclosure requirement, have you seen any proof?
I never made a claim. I ASKED a QUESTION. I was hoping somebody would have
an answer.
Regarding the list, I posted came from a friend in Pittsburgh who found it
somewhere at http://www.warroom.com/ . I received it as an email.
Mac
Seti Alpha
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug
use.
> having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
> brushing it aside.
>
> before he falls bigtime....
On the other hand, JMS, who doesn't/hasn't misrepresented himself at some
point or another? Is that reason enough not to vote for a man?
F'rinstance, at one point, Mr. Gore was a conservative Democrat. Has he
changed his values out of conviction or out of political necessity?
Seti Alpha
> about him that you've made up? Seems like a waste of good creativity...
>
Mac Breck
news:8t76ms$m7h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> For an accurate and objective version of the "list" below, see:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
I'll read over the entire gorelies.htm later today, but before that, I'd
like to comment on this one:
******************************
Origins: One at a time:
FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his mother-in-law pays more than
$100.00 for the arthritis medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes
the same medicine for $37.00, claiming "This is wrong!"
FACT: Gore's aides were quick to apologize for Gore's lie, saying the
information was from a Democratic study. Washington newspapers also reported
that Al Gore wasn't even sure his mother-in-law was taking any medication
and wasn't even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn't know anything about
his dog's "arthritis".
Around these parts we use the term glurge to describe a text that is dressed
up with exaggerated or fabricated details and passed off as a "true story"
in order to call attention to an important point. What we have here is
political glurge.
According to The Tampa Tribune, while Gore was touting his drug plan during
a campaign swing through Florida in August, he:
. . . offered the plight of his mother-in-law, who spends $ 108 a month for
a drug called lodine, which helps relieve the pain of arthritis.
Gore said his 14-year-old black Labrador retriever, Shilo, also suffers from
arthritis and he has a veterinarian's prescription for lodine. The
difference? It costs less than $ 39 a month to fill the dog's prescription
for what Gore said is the exact same drug.
"Don't you think that ought to be changed?" he asked as the crowd applauded.
"Don't you think they ought to lower the price?"
Gore aides never did confirm that either his mother-in-law, Margaret Ann
Aitcheson, or his dog Shiloh actually takes Lodine. As well, the figures are
wrong because they're predicated on the assumption that a dog would take the
same dosage as a human (it wouldn't, at least not for this drug), and
because they were taken from a House Democratic study that reported the
wholesale price, not the retail price.
But as The Boston Globe opined, Gore's message -- like most glurge -- may
have been wrapped around a kernel of truth:
Those facts aside, Gore's overall message was accurate -- that many
brand-name drugs that have both human and animal applications are much more
expensive for people than for pets.
******************************
I have personal experience with something along these lines. My dog has
Myesthenia Gravis and takes Mestinon Bromide (60mg, 2 tablets once per day).
For 120 tablets (a 60 day supply) it costs me $96, the very same as it would
cost for a human being. I *have* to get her prescription filled at a
"people" drug store, *not* the Vet.
Mac
John Kocurek
Bill Clinton is not running in this election. Dubya "the Lying Weasel"
Bush and Al "The Tin Man" Gore are the leading candidates. One of the
many things I really dislike about Dubya is that he has always depended
on his dad's friends and influence to get him out of scrapes. Imagine
you are the CEO of a company and learn some news that is going to tank
the stock. So what do you do? Well, if you are Dubya, you dump the
stock and then "forget" to tell the SEC for 9 months. Now if your dad
is the Prez, there is a good chance they aren't going to do much, too
many claims of "politically motivated harrassment". If your dad happens
to have had the lack of foresight to be elected President, you are
likely looking a a felony conviction. Another, for any number of
reasons, the business you are running has been having lackluster
success. In fact, you are at the edge of bankruptcy. So what happens?
Well, you usually won't have wealthy people who know your dad, the
President, come by and hand you a wad of cash, no strings attached.
Now ask yourself, here is a man who has never failed in life, despite
all of his attempts to, because there has always been someone there to
bail him out. With the lack of foresight and discretion that this would
tend to breed, who is going to bail him out when screws up as President?
Hmm, maybe the Trilateral Comission is really as powerful as people used
to believe. But if there isn't something like that, we might have some
problems...
Gharlane of Eddore
In <8t8326$f40$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> John Kocurek <j...@selec.net> writes:
>
> Gharlane, I know this is a big shock to you, so you better sit down.
> Bill Clinton is not running in this election. Dubya "the Lying Weasel"
> Bush and Al "The Tin Man" Gore are the leading candidates.
>
I'm quite aware of this; however, since Al Gore is on record as
officially approving of Herr Klinton, and is a doofuss besides,
I honestly think it's time to try a *different* rat-pack of
criminals with different agendas, or perhaps elect Harry Browne.
Remember, Al Gore is the man who said,
" Bill Clinton will be remembered as one of the greatest
presidents of all time."
And Al Gore was also the guy who, when asked about Herr Klinton's
apparent hobby of committing rape, replied:
" It was a mistake."
I don't regard Al Gore as a candidate for president so much as a
continuation of the Klinton Debacle.
=====================================================================
|| ||
|| Asking about a row of busts during a tour of Monticello, ||
|| Democrat Vice President Al Gore asked: ||
|| "Who are these people?" ||
|| ||
|| The curator "...helpfully identified the unfamiliar faces: ||
|| 'This is George Washington on the extreme right, with ||
|| Benjamin Franklin close behind.' " ||
|| ||
|| --- reported in the New York Times, January 17, 1993 ||
|| ||
=====================================================================
Pål Are Nordal
>
> On 24 Oct 2000 17:56:06 -0700, Wesley Struebing
> <str...@americanisp.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I was watching the teaser of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer when I
> was writing :-)
...he says, doing the exact same thing again. Was it "Angel" this time?
I honestly can't really understand all the bad quoting on Usenet. Are
people so blind that they can't see that their own messages are ugly and unreadable?
Mac Breck
Mac
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gharlane of Eddore" <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Cc: <rec-arts-sf-tv-b...@moderators.isc.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
>
> In <20001024185106...@ng-fp1.aol.com>
> jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) writes:
> >
> > Y'know what gets me about GBj?
> > Any civil servant applying for the most mediocre government job has
> > to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
> > Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's
> > exempt from having to answer that, as he's constantly refused
> > to deal with the issue, brushing it aside.
> >
>
>
> Y'know what gets *ME* about George Bush, Junior?
>
snipped all stuff I agreed with below
Mac Breck
From: "John Kocurek" <j...@selec.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
> Gharlane, I know this is a big shock to you, so you better sit down.
> Bill Clinton is not running in this election. Dubya "the Lying Weasel"
> Bush and Al "The Tin Man" Gore
You mean Al "Clinton-Lite" Gore, don't you?.
> are the leading candidates. One of the
> many things I really dislike about Dubya is that he has always depended
> on his dad's friends and influence to get him out of scrapes. Imagine
> you are the CEO of a company and learn some news that is going to tank
> the stock. So what do you do? Well, if you are Dubya, you dump the
> stock and then "forget" to tell the SEC for 9 months. Now if your dad
> is the Prez, there is a good chance they aren't going to do much, too
> many claims of "politically motivated harrassment". If your dad happens
> to have had the lack of foresight to be elected President, you are
> likely looking a a felony conviction. Another, for any number of
> reasons, the business you are running has been having lackluster
> success. In fact, you are at the edge of bankruptcy. So what happens?
> Well, you usually won't have wealthy people who know your dad, the
> President, come by and hand you a wad of cash, no strings attached.
>
> Now ask yourself, here is a man who has never failed in life, despite
> all of his attempts to, because there has always been someone there to
> bail him out. With the lack of foresight and discretion that this would
> tend to breed, who is going to bail him out when screws up as President?
Cheney's there, and I have confidence that he'll prevent screw ups.
> Hmm, maybe the Trilateral Comission is really as powerful as people used
> to believe. But if there isn't something like that, we might have some
> problems...
If we end up with Gore, we *will* have problems.
Mac
Mac Breck
From: "Gharlane of Eddore" <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Cc: <rec-arts-sf-tv-b...@moderators.isc.org>
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers George Bush, Jr...
> I don't regard Al Gore as a candidate for president so much as a
> continuation of the Klinton Debacle.
And this is exactly what it will be.
Mac
Jonathan Biggar
>
> For an accurate and objective version of the "list" below, see:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
It depends on what the meaning of "accurate and objective" is. By most
people's definition, it is certainly not objective, and not particularly
accurate either.
I will be the first to admit that many of the "Al Gore is a liar"
stories floating around are overplayed, but there are several that fit
the bill quite well, and because they do, the rest become very easy to
believe.
However, I'm far more concerned about the fact that Al Gore colluded
with the Russians to circumvent the U.S. non-proliferation laws. That's
an illegal act, and is far more important than any lies.
--
Jon Biggar
Floorboard Software
j...@floorboard.com
j...@biggar.org
Mac Breck
news:39F862BC...@floorboard.com...
snip
> However, I'm far more concerned about the fact that Al Gore colluded
> with the Russians to circumvent the U.S. non-proliferation laws. That's
> an illegal act, and is far more important than any lies.
Got a link for that one?
Mac
Jonathan Biggar
Mac Breck
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Miller" <ctm...@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 8:18 PM
Subject: Both sides of Gore's mouth (was: Re: ATTN JMS: "The Onion" Skewers
George Bush, Jr...)
> You might want to check your "facts" before accusing Al Gore of speaking
out
> of both sides of his mouth...
I posted a news story that someone I trust, sent to me via email. I did not
check the facts. I am not a journalist, and wouldn't know *where* to look
for these facts. Do you check all the facts of *every* news story you read.
If so, when do you find time to earn a living?
I posted the article in hopes that something like
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
would be posted as a response.
I just wish that I could depend on some media outlet to publish the
unvarnished truth. I guess Fox News is the closest to that ideal, at the
present time.
> > > > FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a
> > > > champion of civil rights during the 1960's.
> > > > FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil
> > > > Rights Act of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of
> > > > using the "N" word.
>
> Gore's father was a pioneering leader in civil rights. Unfortunately, he
> did lose his nerve when it came to the Civil Rights Act, but that was the
> only blemish on his (until recently) universally accepted leadership on
> civil rights. As for the "N" word: even if the hearsay reports of its use
> are correct, they must be understood in the context of the time when they
> were uttered - as forbidden as it is now, it was once in quite standard
> usage (unfortunately).
Everything's relative. I bet a person would be in hot water is they even
used the term "Negro" in these hypersensitive days.
> > > > FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very
> > > > first person to join the Peace Corps.
> > > > FACT: By the time Gore's sister joined the Peace Corps,
> > > > there were already over 100 members.
>
> Gore's sister worked without pay for the Peace Corps from its first days.
> She joined the paid staff later, when there were already 100 members.
>
> > > > FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a
> > > > result of his extensive study at law school.
> > > > FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.
>
> And? You can do extensive study without earning a degree.
If you're a professional student, I guess that's true. However, most of us
have to graduate after four years and go get a job.
Didn't Bush say that it was an even, across the board cut?
> The president is unable to influence the actions of the FDA.
Didn't he say that he'd be unwilling to do so, or that he thought that the
President influencing a prior decision of the FDA would be inappropriate?
> Hillary Clinton's 1993 health insurance plan would have entailed
> nationalizing health care.
This is a lie. I don't think so.
> Gore claimed to be the author of the EITC law.
Definition of the acronym, please.
> The GOP is no stranger to character assassination,
Politics in general is no stranger to character assassination!
> and unfortunately have
> managed to do a good job on Al Gore.
and Gore has done a good job on Bush.
> Gore would hardly be a perfect
> president (although he may be the best available option), but he deserves
> better than to have his character maligned in this way. All politicians
are
> guilty of exaggeration and spin - Gore's reported examples prove to be
false
> far more often than is the norm.
as a result of convenient, fuzzy memory.
> Combine that truth with Bush's pattern of
> attack, dishonesty, vagueness, and ignorance, and it is clear to me that
Al
> Gore is a better man, and would make a better president, than George W.
> Bush.
I completely disagree. Personally though, I wish it was Cheney for
President.
Mac
Reed Snellenberger
Wesley Struebing
wrote:
>Ryan Bloom wrote:
>>
>> On 24 Oct 2000 17:56:06 -0700, Wesley Struebing
>> <str...@americanisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, I was watching the teaser of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer when I
>> was writing :-)
>
>...he says, doing the exact same thing again. Was it "Angel" this time?
>
>I honestly can't really understand all the bad quoting on Usenet. Are
>people so blind that they can't see that their own messages are ugly and unreadable?
(well, your reply is short enough...)
However, in your zeal to snip, Pål, you snipped my original reply...
8-)
--
--Take care; faith manages!
--
--Wes Struebing
--
--+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-- str...@americanisp.com
-- ph: 303-343-9006 / FAX: 303-343-9026
-- home page: http://users.americanisp.com/~struebing/
Andrew Swallow
>
>Now ask yourself, here is a man who has never failed in life, despite
>all of his attempts to, because there has always been someone there to
>bail him out. With the lack of foresight and discretion that this would
>tend to breed, who is going to bail him out when screws up as President?
>
Is he ready for the one right everyone in the world has? The common law right
to HATE the US President.
Andrew Swallow
John Jasen
> Y'know what gets me about GBj? Any civil servant applying for the most
> mediocre government job has to answer a question or two about prior drug use.
> Gore has answered that question...but Bush seems to feel he's exempt from
> having to answer that, as he's constantly refused to deal with the issue,
> brushing it aside.
>
> before he falls bigtime....
So you voted against Clinton, I take it, and will vote against Gore?
--
-- John E. Jasen (jja...@umbc.edu)
-- You can have it: right; cheap; now. Pick any two.
Michael Atreides
"Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> wrote in message
news:00a601c03f5d$a17ff580$0cd2...@cobweb.net...
> > And? You can do extensive study without earning a degree.
>
> If you're a professional student, I guess that's true. However, most of
us
> have to graduate after four years and go get a job.
This reminded me of something in one of my early college classes -- a logic
class, I believe. The teacher walked into the room, wrote on the board "The
purpose of Higher Education is to get a good job" in the center of the
board, "Agree" on one side of the board, "Disagree" on the other side, and
turned to face us. "Do not discuss this," he said. "Just decide which side
you're on and go to that side of the room. Within a few seconds, we'd
split, with the vast majority of the students on the "Agree" side. The few
of us on the "Disagree" side (I think there were three of us out of a class
of 40) felt a little awkward. Once the class had split, the teacher simply
nodded and said "Ok, return to your seats."
I think the vast majority of Americans believe that the only purpose to
college is to get a good-paying job, but there is far more to it than that.
Chris Miller
> If so, when do you find time to earn a living?
No, of course I don't check the facts of every story. I've just been
irritated that the favorite method to attack Gore is by rehashing his
"lies", many of which turn out to have nothing to do with him. It seems to
me that he's been spun into an unfair corner. Granted, he's given the press
and the Republicans plenty of openings to turn things back on him, but I
don't believe he deserves to have himself mentioned on every talk show as
"Al Gore, Creator of the Internet" with a snicker.
> I just wish that I could depend on some media outlet to publish the
> unvarnished truth.
Amen to that.
> > You can do extensive study without earning a degree.
> If you're a professional student, I guess that's true. However, most of
us
> have to graduate after four years and go get a job.
A lot of us go on to grad school, or med school, or law school, after those
four years. Gore went on to law school. I don't know how long he was
there, but the fact that he did not finish his course of study there does
not invalidate the things he learned about law while he was there. He has a
Harvard degree - you (the generic "you", that is) can't infer that he has no
legal expertise from the fact that he does not have a law degree.
> > Gore claimed to be the author of the EITC law.
> Definition of the acronym, please.
Sorry: "Earned Income Tax Credit".
> Politics in general is no stranger to character assassination!
<snip>
> and Gore has done a good job on Bush.
You think so? It feels to me like the American public is responding more
warmly to Bush than to Gore. Since, as a confirmed cynic, I place no faith
in the American people (as a whole) to form such opinions based on issues,
clearly Gore has been smeared more effectively than Bush has.
> Personally though, I wish it was Cheney for President.
Why? Just curious - I've read a lot of posts to that effect, but I don't
know much about the man.
Respectfully,
Chris
Kurtz
"Chris Miller" <ctm...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:uI5K5.187$zp1....@news-west.eli.net...
> You think so? It feels to me like the American public is responding more
> warmly to Bush than to Gore. Since, as a confirmed cynic, I place no
faith
> in the American people (as a whole) to form such opinions based on issues,
> clearly Gore has been smeared more effectively than Bush has.
>
I'm reminded of the old remark attributed to Mo Udall, after he was defeated
"The people have spoken...the bastards!". With all the analysis, debates,
pundits, campaigns and advertisements, the vast majority of the public is
going to go to the polls and cast a vote for someone they know less about
than the guy who picks up their trash. Most of them will have formed their
opinions based on general ideas, and some of them will not vote for people
of a certain party even if they agree on all major issues.
I keep thinking of that Simpsons episode where Sideshow Bob runs for
mayor. Homer in the poll booth checks at the issues list and mumbles that
he disagrees with his Bart-killing policy, but agrees with his Selma-killing
policy. It's laughable, because no one as dumb as Homer is so clinical about
it. People don't give a rat's ass about issues - they vote for the guy. In
the past,
we've had charismatic wannabes who could have walked into the White House
without regard for the issues - people such as Cuomo, or Powell. We've had
highly qualified experienced intellectuals who were ineffectual Presidents.
We've had highly qualified candidates who just couldn't get votes.
I miss McCain. Win or lose, I'd like to have seen that campaign.
Sometimes I think we really don't need Presidents at all. I really thought
Eisenhower proved that once and for all.
Kurtz
"Michael Atreides" <star...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:zw2K5.23745$Xc.12...@nntp2.onemain.com...
>
> I think the vast majority of Americans believe that the only purpose to
> college is to get a good-paying job, but there is far more to it than
that.
>
I don't know anyone who would pay so much for college if it made no
difference as to what *kind* of job they'd get, good-paying or not.
Plenty of people are learning that a four-year degree may not be necessary
to get the kind of work they desire.
Rob Perkins
> > Personally though, I wish it was Cheney for President.
>
> Why? Just curious - I've read a lot of posts to that effect, but I don't
> know much about the man.
<chiming in...>
For me, it was the VP debates, where Cheney and Liebermann went at it and
stuck to the issues. I found myself wanting a Cheney/Liebermann ticket, or
Liebermann/Cheney, I didn't care.
I'm still unhappy with Gore and Bush, together or apart. Gore, because of
his connections with the current administration, and Bush, because I don't
know who is pulling his strings. But I got a better vibe from both of the
veep wannabe's, this time.
I *really* wish Colin Powell would step up, someday.
Rob
Maagic
--
-Maagic
aka Bryan Foster
Webmaster of the Rick and Bubba Experience
http://www.rickandbubba.net
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Miller" <ctm...@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Both sides of Gore's mouth
> > Do you check all the facts of *every* news story you read.
> > If so, when do you find time to earn a living?
>
> No, of course I don't check the facts of every story. I've just been
> irritated that the favorite method to attack Gore is by rehashing his
> "lies", many of which turn out to have nothing to do with him. It seems
to
> me that he's been spun into an unfair corner. Granted, he's given the
press
> and the Republicans plenty of openings to turn things back on him, but I
> don't believe he deserves to have himself mentioned on every talk show as
> "Al Gore, Creator of the Internet" with a snicker.
Well, the media isn't usually known for being highbrow or substantive.
They'll usually go for the cheap laugh or soundbite sarcasm, and this shows
that they don't think much of their audience.
> > I just wish that I could depend on some media outlet to publish the
> > unvarnished truth.
>
> Amen to that.
>
> > > You can do extensive study without earning a degree.
> > If you're a professional student, I guess that's true. However, most of
> us
> > have to graduate after four years and go get a job.
>
> A lot of us go on to grad school, or med school, or law school, after
those
> four years.
and a lot of us can't do this, and *have* to go get a job.
> Gore went on to law school. I don't know how long he was
> there, but the fact that he did not finish his course of study there does
> not invalidate the things he learned about law while he was there. He has
a
> Harvard degree - you (the generic "you", that is) can't infer that he has
no
> legal expertise from the fact that he does not have a law degree.
True, but it doesn't really count until you get the degree. The "I've done
extensive study" statement says to me that you (same generic "you") are
trying to make it sound like something more than it is, a bluff to mislead
others. Come to think of it, that is kind of "lawyer-speak" so maybe he did
have extensive study. :-)
>
> > > Gore claimed to be the author of the EITC law.
> > Definition of the acronym, please.
>
> Sorry: "Earned Income Tax Credit".
Sorry, I wasn't in "1040" frame of mind. :-)
> > Politics in general is no stranger to character assassination!
> <snip>
> > and Gore has done a good job on Bush.
>
> You think so? It feels to me like the American public is responding more
> warmly to Bush than to Gore.
Yes, much to the dismay of the media. I think the "American public is
responding more warmly to Bush than to Gore." is really being overblown by
the media in an attempt to help Gore:
1. Talking head on a news show (e.g. that Fox show with that "Combs" guy)
says "American public is responding more warmly to Bush than to Gore."
2. Confused look.
3. Talking head says "I just don't understand it. How can the American
public like Bush more than Gore?"
4. Talking head proceeds to trash Bush (low IQ; math doesn't add up; lying
to senior citizens; not ready for the job; did bad job as Texas Governor;
lied about Texas record; implies that the voters are idiots for considering
voting for Bush; etc.), and build up Gore as the 2nd coming, the savior of
the working man.
> Since, as a confirmed cynic, I place no faith
> in the American people (as a whole) to form such opinions based on issues,
That's exactly what I'm basing my choice upon, the issues.
> clearly Gore has been smeared more effectively than Bush has.
On how many news shows have you seen Bush portrayed as an idiot (generic
term, not the specific IQ level), or druggie or that laws don't apply to him
(amazing hypocrisy since we *are* in the era of the Clinton administration)?
Answer: LOTS of them.
If you want to see Bush (and Bush voters, and anybody not 100% left-wing)
REALLY get smeared, go watch the Late, Late Show with Craig Kilborn,
Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, or The Daily Show
(can't remember the guy's name). Politcally Incorrect usually has three out
of the four guests who are extremely liberal, and one conservative as an
object of derision. These four shows have *permanently* lost my
viewership.
> > Personally though, I wish it was Cheney for President.
>
> Why? Just curious - I've read a lot of posts to that effect, but I don't
> know much about the man.
When he speaks, he seems genuine, and makes sense. It's like he can think
on his feet when somebody throws him a curve, like he's doing his own
writing, as opposed to somebody else telling him what to say, and if you go
off-script he's not lost and will not miss-speak/say something stupid or
false (like BOTH Bush *and* Gore). When Cheney speaks, he doesn't "talk
down" to people. He treats the audience as intelligent beings. I get the
feeling that he's the genuine article (unlike Bush or Gore).
Also, Cheney is the candidate who is in the most agreement with me *on the
issues*.
Mac
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kurtz" <mal...@erols.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Both sides of Gore's mouth
>
> "Chris Miller" <ctm...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:uI5K5.187$zp1....@news-west.eli.net...
> > You think so? It feels to me like the American public is responding
more
> > warmly to Bush than to Gore. Since, as a confirmed cynic, I place no
> faith
> > in the American people (as a whole) to form such opinions based on
issues,
> > clearly Gore has been smeared more effectively than Bush has.
> >
>
> I'm reminded of the old remark attributed to Mo Udall, after he was
defeated
> "The people have spoken...the bastards!". With all the analysis, debates,
> pundits, campaigns and advertisements, the vast majority of the public is
> going to go to the polls and cast a vote for someone they know less about
> than the guy who picks up their trash. Most of them will have formed their
> opinions based on general ideas,
and media "guidance" (shepherding).
> and some of them will not vote for people
> of a certain party even if they agree on all major issues.
That's scary! I personally know a lot of people like this. Whenever I have
a discussion with them to try to understand this, I end up feeling like
Spock (from Trek) after he'd looked into the box in "Is There In Truth No
Beauty?"
http://www.startrek.com/library/episodes_tos_detail.asp?ID=68784 (... the
Vulcan forgets to wear his protective visor when restoring Kollos to his
box, and goes insane.)
> I keep thinking of that Simpsons episode where Sideshow Bob runs for
> mayor. Homer in the poll booth checks at the issues list and mumbles that
> he disagrees with his Bart-killing policy, but agrees with his
Selma-killing
> policy. It's laughable, because no one as dumb as Homer is so clinical
about
> it. People don't give a rat's ass about issues - they vote for the guy.
I guess, I must not be human. Maybe I am, but I have a piece of Kosh. :-)
> In
> the past,
> we've had charismatic wannabes who could have walked into the White House
> without regard for the issues - people such as Cuomo, or Powell.
C L I N T O N.
> We've had
> highly qualified experienced intellectuals who were ineffectual
Presidents.
C A R T E R.
> We've had highly qualified candidates who just couldn't get votes.
Cheney
McCain
that Dept. of Education, straight-talking guy from Tennessee (can picture
him but the name eludes me)
> I miss McCain. Win or lose, I'd like to have seen that campaign.
I voted for McCain in the primary, even though he'd already pulled out by
the time Pennsylvania held it's primary.
> Sometimes I think we really don't need Presidents at all. I really thought
> Eisenhower proved that once and for all.
Before my time, so I can't comment on Ike. However, a bad President can do
a lot of damage. Witness the Clinton Administration's effect on the
ethics/morals of this country.
Mac
Andrew Swallow
<macb...@access995.com> writes:
>>[snip] People don't give a rat's ass about issues - they vote for the guy.
>
This is a fairly sensible policy. The issues are a politicians hobby for the
first year. Then he will be forced to do some work by the real world. Bye bye
to the pre-election issues but his character is still there.
His character will tell you if he will -
Fight or run away.
Lie to win or lie to cover-up his appeasement.
Work hard or play golf.
Increase defence spending or social security spending or both.
Actually cut spending.
When at war, bomb them to bits or just once to look good on the news.
Andrew Swallow
Nightwing
what does this thread have to do with Babylon 5?
Andrew Swallow
<rmar...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>With the exception of an occasional mention of a character form the show,
>what does this thread have to do with Babylon 5?
>
It is written by fans of Babylon 5 + JMS?
Andrew Swallow
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nightwing" <rmar...@bellsouth.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Both sides of Gore's mouth
> With the exception of an occasional mention of a character form the show,
> what does this thread have to do with Babylon 5?
Nothing. It's off-topic. Big deal. Lighten up, the election's only a
little over 1 week away. It's hard to avoid talking about it.
Mac
Lizard
wrote:
>I think the vast majority of Americans believe that the only purpose to
>college is to get a good-paying job, but there is far more to it than that.
Damn straight!
There's sex, drugs, and rock&roll! (Of which I got none out of three
in college, mostly due to Wizardry and Ultima II)
College is necessary to get a good job, but not because of anything
you'll learn in class. Rather, a four year degree (in any major) is
considered by a potential employer to be proof that you are willing
and able to endure mindless bullshit and busywork in relative silence,
and can suppress yourself enough to be able to drudge through a
cubicle job. A diploma is proof you have what it takes to be a good
worker.
There's nothing wrong with this. People without the self-discipline to
endure mindless tedium punctuated by blind panic,without the control
to listen to moronic professors drone on and on about boring tripe,
without the ability to produce 12 pages of gibberish on command really
DON'T have what it takes to survive in an office environment. That's
just the way it is. And having done manual labor, I will happily
choose cubicle farms over assembly line or loading dock work.
Education? That's what you do on your own time, for your own purposes.
I taught myself computer programming, and I spent a lot of my free
time buried in the library reading all sorts of random things, just to
learn what I could learn. Education happens everywhere BUT classrooms.
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
Sometimes, 'peace' is just another word for 'surrender':Ivanova
http:\\www.mrlizard.com
LK
[snip]
>I miss McCain. Win or lose, I'd like to have seen that campaign.
Same here.
>
>Sometimes I think we really don't need Presidents at all. I really thought
>Eisenhower proved that once and for all.
>
Over the years, it's been revealed Eisenhower did a lot more than his
public image let on e.g., urging the US to do space exploration. In
"The American Presidents" video series on PBS and video--I haven't
read the book yet--it goes into that "away from the public " style of
presidency and showed a clip IIRC of him apologizing for urging the
arms race onward instead of his duty to humanity to curb it.
LK
Paul McElligott
$400,000 with this term?
In article <200010232054...@web9501.mail.yahoo.com>,
Josh Ehrnwald <jjeh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey JMS, here's something to chortle over while George
> W. is off buying the election... (Taken from The Onion
> website, BTW)
>
> <begin article>
>
> =======================================================
>
> 18 October 2000
>
> AUSTIN, TX--Republican presidential candidate George
> W. Bush was aghast to learn Monday that the position
> of U.S. president, the highest office in the land and
> most powerful in the free world, pays just $200,000 a
> year.
>
> "That's it?" asked Bush, struggling to comprehend the
> figure reported to him by aides. "A measly couple
> hundred grand a year? Not per month, even? Because
> I've already spent more than $60 million to get this
> job. I'll have to be president for 300 years just to
> break even."
--
Paul McElligott
http://www.terrafed.com
Note: No toads were strangled in the posting of this message.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
s_a_j...@my-deja.com
real-life case of what was shown on B5's "The Illusion of Truth".
Chris Miller <ctm...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> Then, of course, there are GWBj's lies. The following list of
> statements, all false, are drawn just from the first two debates.
> There are far more to be found throughout the campaign.
...
> Gore claimed to be the author of the EITC law.
It is false, as you say - but it could be excused as careless reading...
if it just hadn't persisted after repeated correction.
What Gore actually said was that he had proposed an *expansion* of the
Earned Income Tax Credit. But his use of the pronomial "that" allows
the misreading. If only he had said "that expansion proposal".
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,33135,00.html
"[Bradley's proposals were] an old-style approach that spends a lot of
money but doesn't have any new ideas. [He proposes] the expansion of
the Earned Income Tax Credit. I was the author of that proposal. I
wrote that, so I say, welcome aboard. That is something for which I
have been the principal proponent for a long time."
http://www.geocities.com/gore_in_context/EITC.html
Similarly, the claim that Gore claimed to co-sponsor McCain-Feingold
(which was written after Gore had left the Senate to become V.P.) rests
on no accurate quote that I have yet found - but could conceivably have
been due to hasty reading rather than a deliberate lie - at first.
Gore said he *supports* McCain-Feingold, and had *co-sponsored* similar
campaign finance reform bills when he was in Congress, but if your eye
or ear missed a few words, as your attention wandered, you might mix
the two together:
"We need campaign finance reform. And I'm not new to that issue. I have
sponsored or co-sponsored more than a dozen major campaign finance
reform proposals over the last 20 years. I co-sponsored and advocated
full public financing of federal elections in my first term in Congress
more than 20 years ago. I favor that today. That goes much further than
the McCain-Feingold proposal. I support the McCain-Feingold proposal. I
supported it before it was watered down. And I support going much
further than that with full public funding."
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/perspective/1245262.htm
Also see:
http://www.gore-in-context.com/
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/gore2.html
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=683232116 (many URLs)
http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.The.New.Science.of.C.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1112-2000Aug9.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20000903quotes3.asp
http://www.tompaine.com/news/2000/10/08/index.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/101500a.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/020100a.html
http://www.sacbee.com/voices/national/ivins/ivins_20001010.html
http://www.prospect.org/archives/V11-21/wilentz-s.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/476106.asp
http://www.coxnews.com/2000/columnists/teepen/story3755.html
http://www.cjr.org/year/00/3/hall.asp
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/27/media/print.html
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/24/bush/print.html
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/11/gore/print.html
The Internet flap:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/articles/recent/102400a.html
http://brie.berkeley.edu/~briewww/pubs/wp/wp60
http://www.mids.org/mn/904/large.html
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/10/05/gore_internet/print.html
Regularly updated Bush news-tracking sites:
http://www.bushwatch.com/
http://www.bushfiles.com/
http://www.bushreport.com/
http://georgebush2000.com/
s_a_j...@my-deja.com
real-life case of what was shown on B5's "The Illusion of Truth".
Mac Breck <macb...@access995.com> wrote:
> We now have teflon Bill, and soon we'll probably have teflon Al.
> Both can speak out of both sides of their mouth with equal alacrity.
> See below.
And Mac proceeds to quote a notorious Net-flooding anti-Gore spam.
> Do We Really Need Another Pathological Liar For President?
>
> Reprinted from the Internet News Bureau article "Al Gore's 21 Lies"
This collection of misquotes and outright lies has been debunked on
two separate websites devoted to exposing "urban legends":
http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/gore2.html
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm
also see http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=683232116 (many URLs)
But this item deserves special comment:
> FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a champion of civil
> rights during the 1960's.
> FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil Rights Act
> of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of using the "N" word.
Albert Gore Sr was *not* a racist. That is a contemptible smear.
It is one of the oldest political dirty tricks to insert bad provisions
("poison pills", or even just blatant pork) in a popular or necessary
bill, knowing that politicians will feel pressured to accept it anyway.
If they refuse to accept those bad provisions, and cannot remove them
by amendment, their only option is to vote against the bill, and hope
the next version is done right.
But then you can accuse them of opposing the popular-or-necessary part -
"My opponents voted against the SAVE THE WORLD FROM CERTAIN DESTRUCTION
Act!" - and never mention WHY they did so.
This is what's being done to accuse - as a "racist" - Al Gore's father,
one of the most noted ANTI-racist members of Congress from the South.
Albert Gore Sr had a 32-year-long Congressional career (1948-1970) as
a prominent advocate of civil rights, against bitter opposition.
http://janus.mtsu.edu/gore/gore_bio.htm
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/06/gore.senior.obit.01/
http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/htallant/border/bs10/mitchell.htm
When the 1964 Civil Rights Act was proposed, Gore objected to the
less-prominent provisions that allowed withholding federal funds
for schools and hospitals from non-complying states. He offered an
amendment to delete these provisions, saying that children and the
sick should not be penalized for the actions of healthy (but bigoted)
adults. He was willing to vote for the Act if it would be so amended.
His amendment was defeated, so he voted against the Act. He went on to
vote for the the 1965 Voting Rights Act and the 1968 Open Housing Act,
opposed Strom Thurmond's segregationist "Southern Manifesto", spoke out
against the conduct of the Vietnam War. He was an inspiration and role
model to the socially conscious youth of the South.
Gore was targeted for defeat by Nixon, part of the "Southern Strategy"
to recruit Southern racists to the Republican Party - targeted, not for
being a "racist", but for *not* being one - and lost re-election.
So the claim that he was a "racist" is false, and utterly insupportable.
It is not only a lie, but a foul and damnable lie, against a decent man.
"Character, honor, integrity" were qualities Albert Gore Sr had.
Despite Bush and his faction mouthing these words, this lie of theirs
shows how completely they lack these qualities.
- - - - -
See what Al Gore Jr said at a memorial service for his father:
http://www.algore2000.com/speeches/ags.html
Mena Ryan
>
> In article <39f618f1$1...@news3.calweb.com>, m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Vanpelt)
> writes:
>
> >>
> >>A guy who *starts out* thinking he's above the law doesn't have far to go
> >>before he falls bigtime....
> >
> >
>
> He can be impeached or thrown out after 4 years.
>
> Providing someone tells the US people what Bush junior has done before the next
> election.
>
> Andrew Swallow
They won't care. They never seem to 'get it'. I live in DuPage county
in Illinois. I have spent the last couple weeks looking at the
ghod-awful Bush-Cheney and Henry Hyde signs littering my neighbor's
lawns. Most people would now say "Henry who?" when only two years ago
they were complaining about that whole impeachment thing! OK, maybe not
*my* neighbors but the rest of the country was...
GW was here the other day speaking at College of DuPage, btw. Gore was
in Chicago that same day. I am trying to figure out why they are going
to places where they know that they are going to win instead of trying
to get undecided people in areas which are strongly in the opposite camp
in the areas where it is iffy.