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ATTN JMS: Superman

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Tammy Smith

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Oct 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/21/00
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Since you are working on Spiderman now, I was wondering what you would
do if they asked you to do a Superman comic-book series, since Superman
is your favorite. What changes would you make, if any?

Tammy

Jms at B5

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Oct 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/21/00
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>Since you are working on Spiderman now, I was wondering what you would
>do if they asked you to do a Superman comic-book series, since Superman
>is your favorite. What changes would you make, if any?

What would I do *after* I fainted...?

I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because the character has been an
icon to me since I could read. What I'd try to do is hew close to the kind of
characterization you saw in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of
Tomorrow?" which concluded the pre-Byrne Superman (and the post-Byrne Supes I
don't even recognize anymore).

They mucked with the character because they said they couldn't do anything
interesting with him. Moore proved them wrong.

jms

(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2000 by
synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
to reprint specifically denied to
SFX Magazine)

Dwight Williams

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Oct 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/22/00
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Interesting points...and while I won't dispute that point about Alan
Moore, I find that I've been quite comfortable with what's seen print
since 1986. Granted that fans who've been with the character longer than
I still have disorientation problems...

Is it a generation gap perception argument here, or something else?
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Maintainer/Founder - DEOList for _Chase_ Fandom
Personal Web Site: http://www.ncf.ca/~ad696/
*I* own my postings on Usenet, *not* any dot-com site!
----------------------------------------------------------------------


in_vale...@hotmail.com

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Oct 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/22/00
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In article <20001021190649...@ng-bj1.aol.com>,

jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>
> I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because the character has
> been an icon to me since I could read. What I'd try to do is hew
> close to the kind of characterization you saw in Alan Moore's
> "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" which concluded the pre-
> Byrne Superman (and the post-Byrne Supes I don't even recognize
> anymore).
>
> They mucked with the character because they said they couldn't do
> anything interesting with him. Moore proved them wrong.

No surprise there. Good storytelling is all that's needed to make a
character interesting, not reconning and angst operas.

Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.

It's a shame DC doesn't seem to be willing to accept top creators make
good comics, not editors and company policies. Maybe that's why RS
(#17 in September's top 100 comics) and MN (#7) outsell the most DCs,
including the much better known Superman character (the highest is the
namesake title at #33, lowest S:Man of Steel #44).

I wonder if Marvel starts pulling in increased sales, DC'll have to
rethink?

scott tilson.
--------------------
Recommended: JLA: HEAVEN'S LADDER by Mark Waid & Bryan Hitch.
http://www.dccomics.com/bnw/september/jla_hl/a.htm


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


Mac Breck

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Oct 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/22/00
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Superman


> >Since you are working on Spiderman now, I was wondering what you would
> >do if they asked you to do a Superman comic-book series, since Superman
> >is your favorite. What changes would you make, if any?
>
> What would I do *after* I fainted...?

snip

>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2000 by
> synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
> to reprint specifically denied to
> SFX Magazine)

Know what you mean. That would be like Nikon hiring me to head the design
of the F3HP/FM2n successor as a simple, dependable, manual focus/manual
exposure camera with a manual film advance lever, manual rewind lever, and
some extra non-computerized features.

Heady stuff, and for me, far too good to be true!

Mac

Jms at B5

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Oct 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/22/00
to
>Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
>seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
>including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.

I was really jazzed when I heard that Grant was going to be doing X-Men. He's
a terrific writer, I've enjoyed his stuff for years.

>It's a shame DC doesn't seem to be willing to accept top creators make
>good comics, not editors and company policies.

There's very little about DC these days that makes sense.

Christian Smith

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
On 22 Oct 2000 23:09:33 -0700,jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote

>>Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
>>seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
>>including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.
>
>I was really jazzed when I heard that Grant was going to be doing X-Men. He's
>a terrific writer, I've enjoyed his stuff for years.
>

Having not read any of his stuff, Having a recommendation like that
makes me a little more easy about him writing X-men. They've on
downhill so much lately that I'm concerned they are not retrievable!

>>It's a shame DC doesn't seem to be willing to accept top creators make
>>good comics, not editors and company policies.
>
>There's very little about DC these days that makes sense.

Have you *read* the latest X-Men? Now those define indecipherable!

So, will you be planning to actually do something with the mess at the
moment of the resurrected Aunt May and missing MaryJane?
I'd love these to be tidied up and sorted out once and for all...

Christian
--
"Every new beginning is some other beginnings end..."

ICQ 45494039
(E_Mail: Remove "NOSPAM" from e-mail address when replying)


Josh Ehrnwald

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
>>Since you are working on Spiderman now, I was
>>wondering what you would do if they asked you to do
>>a Superman comic-book series, since Superman is your
>>favorite. What changes would you make, if any?

>What would I do *after* I fainted...?

>I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because
>the character has been an icon to me since I could
>read. What I'd try to do is hew close to the kind of
>characterization you saw in Alan Moore's "Whatever
>Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" which concluded the
>pre-Byrne Superman (and the post-Byrne Supes I don't

>even recognize anymore).

>They mucked with the character because they said they
>couldn't do anything interesting with him. Moore
>proved them wrong.

>jms

Agreed, Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of
Tomorrow?" is one of the greatest Superman stories
ever written, but I think that you really should give
the new run currently being written by Jeph Loeb a
chance--this, along with his and Tim Sale's "Superman
For All Seasons" mini-series (and "Batman: The Long
Halloween" tale) has slammed Superman back into a
postmodern-Silver Age flavor that many people felt was
missing when John Byrne took ahold of the book.

I hadn't read the book in years, frankly, but Loeb's
"For All Seasons" was such a creative and aesthetic
triumph in getting back to what made Superman work
that DC very wisely handed over the monthly writing
reins to him and said, "Bring back Superman" (why they
haven't turned "Detective Comics" over to him yet is,
frankly, beyond my comprehension at the moment).

Before that, Mark Waid and Alex Ross's "Kingdom Come"
was the best thing to be done with Kal-El in ten long
years (and have you seen Ross's "Peace on Earth"
special yet?), and the writing of Grant Morrison in
the pages of his JLA run reinforced Superman's iconic
status (he being probably as nostalgic as you for the
"good old days"...).

Anyways, give his writing a chance, and you'll
probably be genuinely surprised...he worships DC's
characters as much as anyone on the planet.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/


Rich Johnston

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
says...


>They mucked with the character because they said they couldn't do anything
>interesting with him. Moore proved them wrong.

Not true. Moore mucked with character in those last two issues just as much as
Byrne did, if not Moore. He turned him into a killer.

Not to mention mucking with Mr Mxyzptlk, the Luthor/Brainiac team, the LSH,
Krypto and a plethora of other characters, killing the identity of Superman,
giving him a baby with Lois, etc etc etc...

Brilliant story, but certainly mucking with Superman in a way that he'd never
have been allowed to if the continuity wasn't about to be revamped.

"This is an imaginary story. But then again, aren't they all"

Rich Johnston twis...@hotmail.com
All The Rage and Rich's Rumblings at http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com
Ramblings 2000 at http://come.to/ramblings & http://www.twistandshoutcomics.com
Selling lots of comics at http://www.geocities.com/evenwood/sale.html

Rich Johnston

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
In article <j8t7vsk6te00gikds...@4ax.com>,
chri...@jasdigital.com says...

>Having not read any of his stuff, Having a recommendation like that
>makes me a little more easy about him writing X-men. They've on
>downhill so much lately that I'm concerned they are not retrievable!

Grant writes comics that change things. From Zoids, The New Adventures Of Adolf
Hitler, St Swithins Day and Zenith through Arkham Asylum, Kid Eternity, Animal
Man and the Doom Patrol to Skrull Kill Krew, Mystery Play, Aztek, Kill Your
Boyfriend, JLA and Invisibles, Grant Morrison makes big changes that make
perfect sense and follows them through to their inevitable conclusions. He does
roller coaster rides of madness. Enjoy the ride, don't watch the gaps too
closely, just feel the thrill.

Kim A. Sommer

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
In article <2000102302260...@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>,

Josh Ehrnwald <jjeh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Since you are working on Spiderman now, I was
>>>wondering what you would do if they asked you to do
>>>a Superman comic-book series, since Superman is your
>>>favorite. What changes would you make, if any?
>
>>What would I do *after* I fainted...?
>
>>I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because
>>the character has been an icon to me since I could
>>read. What I'd try to do is hew close to the kind of
>>characterization you saw in Alan Moore's "Whatever
>>Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" which concluded the
>>pre-Byrne Superman (and the post-Byrne Supes I don't
>>even recognize anymore).
>
>>They mucked with the character because they said they
>>couldn't do anything interesting with him. Moore
>>proved them wrong.
>
>>jms
>
>Agreed, Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of
>Tomorrow?" is one of the greatest Superman stories
>ever written, but I think that you really should give
>the new run currently being written by Jeph Loeb a


I still like the Elliot S! Maggin Superman novels back form the time of
the first Superman movie. I liked his percetion of Superman, extremely
powerful but there's still issues and problems and they relate to the
person, who he is and what he wants. Funny how those ideas always work
for a story.

Kim

--
-------
Kim A. Sommer
Humans do it Better! The Open Directory Project - http://dmoz.org

Tammy Smith

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
JMS said:

"I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because the character has
been an icon to me since I could read. What I'd try to do is hew close
to the kind of characterization you saw in Alan Moore's "Whatever
Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

*
*
*

Since I'm not all that familiar with comics, what did Moore do with the
Superman idea?

Tammy

in_vale...@hotmail.com

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Oct 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/23/00
to
In article <j8t7vsk6te00gikds...@4ax.com>,

chri...@jasdigital.com wrote:
> On 22 Oct 2000 23:09:33 -0700,jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote
>
> >>Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
> >>seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
> >>including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.
> >
> >I was really jazzed when I heard that Grant was going to be doing X-
> >Men. He's a terrific writer, I've enjoyed his stuff for years.
>
> Having not read any of his stuff, Having a recommendation like that
> makes me a little more easy about him writing X-men. They've on
> downhill so much lately that I'm concerned they are not retrievable!

If you want a free taste test of Morrison's writing check the excerpts
of his JLA: EARTH 2 graphic novel at
http://www.nextplanetover.com/pulse/excerpts/earth2jla991126.asp and
#1 of the MARVEL BOY series at
http://www.nextplanetover.com/pulse/excerpts/marvelboy000614-1.asp

There's also a good interview at
http://www.fandom.com/comics/articles.asp?action=page&obj_id=237977
about why he took the job and what he plans in general to do with it.

Michael J. Hennebry

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Oct 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/24/00
to

Anyone want to discuss Lois & Clark?
There is no need to mention the series finale.
It was evil. We all know that.

--
Mike henn...@plains.NoDak.edu
Iluvatar is the better part of Valar.


Tammy Smith

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Oct 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/24/00
to
Michael Hennebry said:

"Anyone want to discuss Lois & Clark?"

My reply:

That series drove me crazy! I would watch it when it used to be on
before B5 on TNT.
They must have tried every cliche in the book to keep L & C apart after
Lois found out the truth about Clark. Arrgghhh! I like B5 a lot
better!

Tammy

Douglas

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Oct 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/25/00
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Christian Smith <chri...@jasdigital.com> wrote in message
news:j8t7vsk6te00gikds...@4ax.com...

> On 22 Oct 2000 23:09:33 -0700,jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote
>
> >>Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
> >>seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
> >>including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.


He, I still have the UK Starblazers complete collection of Mini Sci-Fi
stories (anyone remember them? 65 page small book size), some of them were
Grant Morrisons first ever work.

Joe, is there any chance that there will be any more B5 comics, or were you
burnt by D.C's controlling attitude? If I misinterpreted that, I apologise,
that was the impression I got from reading the 'Babylon File'. 'In Valen's
Name' was a good mini series, and I think B5 has the potential for so many
great comic stories.

Douglas Nicol


Jms at B5

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Oct 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/26/00
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>Joe, is there any chance that there will be any more B5 comics, or were you
>burnt by D.C's controlling attitude? If I misinterpreted that, I apologise,
>that was the impression I got from reading the 'Babylon File'.

Well, bear in mind that TBF and reality rarely touch reality at any two
contiguous points, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in anything you read there,
especially v2.

That said...I'd be more than happy to see more B5 comics. But I don't want
them published as throwaways as they were by DC. I'd rather something be done
*right* and if it can't be done right, I'd rather not do it.

The Reverend Jacob Corbin

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Oct 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/26/00
to
Tammy Smith wrote:

> Since I'm not all that familiar with comics, what did Moore do with the
> Superman idea?

Long story. Here goes:

By 1985, DC Comics had been publishing Superman and Batman continuously
since the forties, and its other characters like Flash and Green Lantern
since the fifties. As you can imagine, trying to keep track of all the
hundreds of characters and stories was a nightmare for all but the most
insanely obsessive fans. There were other problems: for instance, Superman
had had an army of "Super Pets" at one time, which was fine in the sixties
but seemed too ridiculous for words in '85. There were about 10 or 15
colors of kryptonite, which did all sorts of ridiculous things, like giving
Jimmy Olsen superpowers, or making Superman a girl, or making insects grow
to super-size. There were also slews of oddball "imaginary stories" (like
"What if Superman and Lois married?", or "What if Lois was black?") that
were just...strange.

DC, in a massive effort to modernize their characters and clean all the
50-year-old ideas out of their collective closet, put out a huge 12-part
storyline called "Crisis on Infinite Earths," which featured the heroes
battling to save all the parallel worlds in existence, after which the main
characters would all be rebooted from square one and brought up to date.
In Superman's case that meant Ma and Pa Kent would still be alive, there
would only be *one* color of kryptonite, Lex Luthor would be a powerful
businessman instead of a flaky inventor, and there weren't going to be any
super pets.

But since they were essentially saying "so long" to fifty years of Superman
stories, the folks at DC decided to give the old version of Superman a
fitting sendoff. They gave Alan Moore a mere two issues with which to wrap
up all the dangling threads of the character's past, and he pulled it off
brilliantly in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Here's the
famous opening lines:

THIS IS AN IMAGINARY STORY
(which may never happen, but then again may)
about a perfect man who came from the sky and did only good.
It tells of his twilight, when the great battles were over and the great
miracles long since performed;
of how his enemies conspired against him and of that final war in the
snowblind wastes beneath the Northern Lights;
of the women he loved and the choice he made between them;
of how he broke his most sacred oath, and how finally all the things he had
were taken from him save one.
It ends with a wink.
It begins in a quiet midwestern town, one summer afternoon in the quiet
midwestern future.
Away, in the big city, people still sometimes glance up hopefully from the
sidewalks, glimpsing a distant speck in the sky...but no: it's only a bird,
only a plane -- Superman died ten years ago.
THIS IS AN IMAGINARY STORY...
Aren't they all?

--

Reverend Jacob
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/shirley/272/
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they
like." Richard M. Nixon


davi...@my-deja.com

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Oct 26, 2000, 10:41:31 AM10/26/00
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In article <8t73r1$vs7$2...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
"Douglas" <dou...@msdwindows.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> He, I still have the UK Starblazers complete collection of Mini Sci-Fi
> stories (anyone remember them? 65 page small book size), some of
them were Grant Morrisons first ever work.

I started getting these from #1, at an early age, and I stopped at the
point they started bringing in the role-playing-game issues, if that
gives you an idea (130?, 150?); how many were in the set altogether?
Knowing my luck, I stopped about 3 issues from the last one!

Some were good, some were just a little derivative: check out the
Planet of the Darth Vaders in "Killer Robot". ;-)

-DavidAC

Michael Atreides

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Oct 26, 2000, 5:14:04 PM10/26/00
to

"The Reverend Jacob Corbin" <webm...@afriendlysbooks.com> wrote in message
news:39F7C5DC...@afriendlysbooks.com...

> Tammy Smith wrote:
>
> "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Here's the
> famous opening lines:

Wow. Any chance you've got Issue numbers? I'd like to try and track this
stuff down... must be read!

Simo Aaltonen

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Oct 26, 2000, 7:33:53 PM10/26/00
to
In article <39F7C5DC...@afriendlysbooks.com>,

The Reverend Jacob Corbin <webm...@afriendlysbooks.com> wrote:
> They gave Alan Moore a mere two issues with which to wrap
> up all the dangling threads of the character's past, and he pulled it
off
> brilliantly in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Here's the
> famous opening lines:
>

> THIS IS AN IMAGINARY STORY
> (which may never happen, but then again may)
> about a perfect man who came from the sky and did only good.
> It tells of his twilight, when the great battles were over and the
great
> miracles long since performed;
> of how his enemies conspired against him and of that final war in the
> snowblind wastes beneath the Northern Lights;
> of the women he loved and the choice he made between them;
> of how he broke his most sacred oath, and how finally all the things
he had
> were taken from him save one.
> It ends with a wink.
> It begins in a quiet midwestern town, one summer afternoon in the
quiet
> midwestern future.
> Away, in the big city, people still sometimes glance up hopefully
from the
> sidewalks, glimpsing a distant speck in the sky...but no: it's only a
bird,
> only a plane -- Superman died ten years ago.
> THIS IS AN IMAGINARY STORY...
> Aren't they all?

At the risk of stating the obvious, I feel compelled to say... DAMN
well crafted writing.

-simo aaltonen

Iain Clark

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Oct 27, 2000, 6:34:45 PM10/27/00
to

"Simo Aaltonen" <simo...@st.jyu.fi> wrote in message
news:8taf0s$c4i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

And at the risk of stating the obvious, Alan Moore is a damn fine writer.

Actually the above excerpt reminds me very much of Neil Gaiman (which I
suppose isn't that surprising given Moore's strong influence on Gaiman).

Iain
--
"Signs, portents, dreams...next thing
we'll be reading tea leaves and chicken entrails."

Mike Hennebry

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Oct 31, 2000, 11:13:17 AM10/31/00
to
In article <1608-39F...@storefull-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,

I do hope no one inferred that I thought L&C was a better program
than B5. That said, this one thought it was rather fun. When
judging a show, it's important to be able to detect comedy. Once
upon a time there was a show that was panned and killed by critics
because one of the characters was entirely too uppity a woman to
be allowed to live in medieval times. Not only didn't they get
the joke, they couldn't even tell that there was one.
Covington (sp?) Cross was fun while it lasted.

--
Mike henn...@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"Miranda kinda likes him too, but
knows he comes from the wrong
side of the gates of hell." -- Frank Wu

Phoebe O'Hare

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Feb 22, 2001, 3:15:15 PM2/22/01
to
"Michael J. Hennebry" wrote:

> Anyone want to discuss Lois & Clark?

> There is no need to mention the series finale.
> It was evil. We all know that.

<makes a disgusted noise in her throat> Not particularly :-p


Phoebe O'Hare

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Feb 22, 2001, 3:16:41 PM2/22/01
to
in_vale...@hotmail.com wrote:

> In article <20001021190649...@ng-bj1.aol.com>,


> jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >
> > I'd drop pretty much anything to do Supes, because the character has
> > been an icon to me since I could read. What I'd try to do is hew
> > close to the kind of characterization you saw in Alan Moore's

> > "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" which concluded the pre-

> > Byrne Superman (and the post-Byrne Supes I don't even recognize
> > anymore).
> >
> > They mucked with the character because they said they couldn't do
> > anything interesting with him. Moore proved them wrong.
>

> No surprise there. Good storytelling is all that's needed to make a
> character interesting, not reconning and angst operas.
>

> Marvel's Joe Quesada is really causing a stir in the industry, it
> seems, with the news of changes he's making almost every week,
> including you on AS-M and Grant Morrison on X-Men.
>

> It's a shame DC doesn't seem to be willing to accept top creators make
> good comics, not editors and company policies.

Strange, I rather like Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore.


Phoebe O'Hare

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Feb 22, 2001, 3:17:01 PM2/22/01
to
Iain Clark wrote:

Have any of you read Moore's Top 10 ?


Iain Clark

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Feb 22, 2001, 3:54:41 PM2/22/01
to

"Phoebe O'Hare" <rutho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:39FCB5F9...@prodigy.net...

I've been trying to decide if his various current titles will be good or
not. I have this impression that they're just fun and light without any real
weight. I suppose I should just go out and try it - it's not like I can't
afford the odd comic! It is any good?

By strange coincidence I just started reading The Sandman Companion
yesterday, which I've had for ages but never got round to reading. Very
interesting book. Every time I think I've spotted all the literary
references and cunning bits of foreshadowing in Sandman I find out I've only
been stratching the surface!

ghar...@news.deepthot.org

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Feb 23, 2001, 2:21:31 AM2/23/01
to
"Michael J. Hennebry" wrote:
>
> Anyone want to discuss Lois & Clark?
> There is no need to mention the series finale.
> It was evil. We all know that.
>


In article <39FCB67B...@prodigy.net>,


Phoebe O'Hare <rutho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> <makes a disgusted noise in her throat> Not particularly :-p
>


The *MOST* disgusting thing about "LOIS & CLARK" was that it
was the series the network chose to fill the one available
fantasy action/adventure slot, when the *very* close contender
was a little project that George R. R. Martin and his buddies
had put together.... "DOORWAYS." Which the network passed on.

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