ATTN JMS/Artwork on Rising Stars
Patrick MARCEL
someone had to ask: is it *at all* possible to get a decent artist on
RISING STARS? The current one is seriously interfering with my enjoyment
of the story - did I say "enjoyment"? Hell, he's interfering with my
capacity to **read** it!
I can't tell the characters apart, which is a slight problem in a
character driven story, especially nine issues into the story. After
reading the first eight books, I'm not sure who is who: not one
character has stuck to my mind, except for the immortal guy who got
smothered in one early issue. I read the issues as they come out, but I
just get the gist of the plot and nothing much beyond that, as the
various characters blur into a single undifferentiated crowd, basically.
I had no problem with "Midnight Children"'s cast of a thousand, but then
there was no artwork there to conspire against the story!!! I have no
problems with comics: I've been reading comics (Barks!) ever since
before I could read, I'm French and have a huge collection of various
graphic albums, and I devour just about everything I can get my hands upon.
So far, I've bought but not read RS#9 and am not feeling really
motivated to do so.
"Midnight Nation" is so much better: excellent artwork and storytelling,
differentiated characters you have no problem telling apart, backgrounds
delineated beyond the generic filler material which is the norm in RS.
I'm not the only one having problems with the artwork on RS, I keep
reading messages of people bemoaning it on various newsgroups.
OK, go ahead: shoot me now!! :-)
Patrick
--
"...and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are..."
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Jms at B5
thing was coming out WAY too dark (stuff got changed after I approved it) and
we're changing inkers. That should help.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2000 by
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Pål Are Nordal
>
> Okay, here I go and commit the newsgroup equivalent of suicide,
Why do you say that?
> but
> someone had to ask: is it *at all* possible to get a decent artist on
> RISING STARS? The current one is seriously interfering with my enjoyment
> of the story - did I say "enjoyment"?
Well, my main problem is that Zanier seems to to be lousy with details.
When there's a close-up, the art is adequate. The moment you have
something moves a bit away, most of it's features disappear. It makes
everything look so muddy and indistinct, and the dark night-time
colouring in #10 certainly didn't help.
Gary Frank's work on Midnight Nation is *so* much better.
> I can't tell the characters apart, which is a slight problem in a
> character driven story, especially nine issues into the story. After
> reading the first eight books,
I can't say I've had _that_ much problems. There were some parts in #6,
and a few of the meetings between Poet and Ravenshadow, though the
latter can often be resolved by looking at the clothes.
BTW - Joe, if your reading this... In #10, when Ravenshadow is fighting
the "Rat-Bat-Cat-Cpa-Dog thingie", is there something "special" going on
with his shadow, or is it just the lighting.
--
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Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
James Bell
great. What bothers me more than the artwork is the loooooonnnnnnng periods
between issues. I have to go back and reread the previous issue or two every
time a new one comes out.
Jim
Patrick MARCEL wrote:
> Okay, here I go and commit the newsgroup equivalent of suicide, but
> someone had to ask: is it *at all* possible to get a decent artist on
> RISING STARS? The current one is seriously interfering with my enjoyment
> of the story - did I say "enjoyment"? Hell, he's interfering with my
> capacity to **read** it!
>
> I can't tell the characters apart, which is a slight problem in a
> character driven story, especially nine issues into the story. After
Scott Johnson
: Well, my main problem is that Zanier seems to to be lousy with details.
: When there's a close-up, the art is adequate. The moment you have
: something moves a bit away, most of it's features disappear. It makes
: everything look so muddy and indistinct, and the dark night-time
: colouring in #10 certainly didn't help.
My main problem is that he has basically two different faces -- one male,
one female. The only way he seems to be able to differentiate the
characters is by the color of their hair and clothes. The art also seems
to lack something... artistic. Compare it to The Authority or Promethea
-- worlds of difference! Rising Stars looks like it is being drawn by a
talented but shallow 15 year old who only looks at fashion models.
: I can't say I've had _that_ much problems. There were some parts in #6,
: and a few of the meetings between Poet and Ravenshadow, though the
: latter can often be resolved by looking at the clothes.
Which, unless the characters are identical twins, shows a serious lack of
quality on the part of the art IMO.
--
Scott Iekel-Johnson sco...@eecs.umich.edu
Dept. of EECS, Univ. of Michigan http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~scottdj
(734) 763-5363
Finger for PGP public key.
Patrick MARCEL
> We're taking steps to improve the art. We've changed colorists because the
> thing was coming out WAY too dark (stuff got changed after I approved it) and
> we're changing inkers. That should help.
Er... That still leaves the matter of *the art* per se, which is where I
think the major problem lies. Unless the inker does a major reworking
job on what s/he's given, the basis s/he'll be working with will still
be sorely wanting. imho.
Patrick MARCEL
> Patrick MARCEL wrote:
> >
> > Okay, here I go and commit the newsgroup equivalent of suicide,
>
> Why do you say that?
Oh, humor, I thought.
> Well, my main problem is that Zanier seems to to be lousy with details.
And faces, and expressions, and backgrounds and... Keu Cha was standard
Image fare, but still much better.
Patrick MARCEL
> No one's going to shoot you because everyone knows that the artwork isn't
> great.
I do hope so. I was aiming for levity, there. :-)
Still, it's been 10 issues, and the artwork is still sub-standard.
Whatever the quality of the story is (and so far, the artwork has
seriously interferd with my capacity to concentrate on that), the sheer
lousiness of artwork will certainly prevent it from being a keeper...
> What bothers me more than the artwork is the loooooonnnnnnng periods
> between issues. I have to go back and reread the previous issue or two every
> time a new one comes out.
I don't mind waiting, if the book is great. In France, most 44-pages
comic albums come out once every year. In the States, you've been used
to twenty pages a month. You're just spoiled. I'd rather have good
comics rather than fast ones.
PPascal
Patrick MARCEL wrote:
>
> Still, it's been 10 issues, and the artwork is still sub-standard.
> Whatever the quality of the story is (and so far, the artwork has
> seriously interferd with my capacity to concentrate on that), the sheer
> lousiness of artwork will certainly prevent it from being a keeper...
I totally agree. Story and artwork don't work on the same level, and it privates
the series from lots of potential readers. Yon @NEED@ to do the effort to read to
discover that the series is far better than most Image stuff.
> > What bothers me more than the artwork is the loooooonnnnnnng periods
> > between issues. I have to go back and reread the previous issue or two every
> > time a new one comes out.
>
> I don't mind waiting, if the book is great. In France, most 44-pages
> comic albums come out once every year. In the States, you've been used
> to twenty pages a month. You're just spoiled. I'd rather have good
> comics rather than fast ones.
And THERE ARE lots of excellent US artists that could do it on a regular basis.
The french trend often makes me smile: 44 pages pro year is ok for the best
artists, but there are dozens of them whose work is not better than the average US
drawers (and dozens who work with inkers and colorists, as in the States).
Pierre
Patrick MARCEL
> The french trend often makes me smile: 44 pages pro year is ok for the best
> artists, but there are dozens of them whose work is not better than the average US
> drawers
Maybe they should only do shorts? :-)))
Patrick
PS: sorry, couldn't resist. You meant "artists" or "draughtsmen".
Claudia Mastroianni
: My main problem is that he has basically two different faces -- one male,
: one female. The only way he seems to be able to differentiate the
: characters is by the color of their hair and clothes.
Man, I thought it was just me! I thought that because I'm not a Real Comics
Fan (there are comics I'm rabid about, but they're few and far between and the
only one in print right now is Strangers in Paradise, which is famous for
appealing to those who Don't Read Comics) I was missing something that was
evident to others.
I love the writing, and I love Midnight Nation's artwork. But the Rising
Stars standard male jawline is beginning to pall.
Claudia
--
Zealot: n., a person who does what god would be doing,
if only god understood the situation better.
PPascal
Patrick MARCEL wrote:
> PPascal wrote:
>
> > The french trend often makes me smile: 44 pages pro year is ok for the best
> > artists, but there are dozens of them whose work is not better than the average US
> > drawers
>
> Maybe they should only do shorts? :-)))
>
> Patrick
>
> PS: sorry, couldn't resist. You meant "artists" or "draughtsmen".
No problem! I should have been more careful , and the pun was deserved!
Pierre, going back to his old english vocabulary books
;-)
in_vale...@hotmail.com
mant...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
> Jms at B5 wrote:
>
> > We're taking steps to improve the art. We've changed colorists
because the
> > thing was coming out WAY too dark (stuff got changed after I
approved it) and
> > we're changing inkers. That should help.
Have you seen Paul Mounts' coloring on Gary's KIN?
> Er... That still leaves the matter of *the art* per se, which is
where I
> think the major problem lies. Unless the inker does a major reworking
> job on what s/he's given, the basis s/he'll be working with will still
> be sorely wanting. imho.
I wonder if there's something in Zanier's penils that's lost in the
inking? I've seen his Angel tie-in comic art, with a different inker.
It is better, but only slightly.
This all sounds harsh, I'm sure. Fans can be blunt. I do see rare
moments in Zanier's art that hints at development and potential for
much better, as in the early comic art of Barry Smith (Conan) or P.
Craig Russell (Killraven). But Zanier's not at even their early
stage. Maybe he needs time away from the monthly grind to practice
more of the basics, of range of likenesses and facial expressions, and
to really evolve his own distinct style?
While I too admit I'd like to see a new penciller, I don't know what
the reason for the choice of Zanier was, and continues to be. If he's
staying, maybe an *embellisher* would be helpful, to bolster the art in
its weak points? Someone like Jerry Ordway (check out some of his
recent sf influenced art at
http://shazam.imginc.com/jerryordway/gallery/msdp_01.asp), Kevin
Nowlan, or Bob McLeod, for example?
scott tilson.
-------------------
Recommended: THE TALE OF ONE BAD RAT by Bryan Talbot.
http://www.darkhorse.com/products/pg_profile/sku_44637/
http://www.bryan-talbot.com/gallery2/BadRat.html
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Before you buy.
Rich Johnston
says...
>
>We're taking steps to improve the art. We've changed colorists because the
>thing was coming out WAY too dark (stuff got changed after I approved it) and
>we're changing inkers. That should help.
Hi. My name's Rich Johnston, I've written and drawn comics, written as a comics
journalist, write a successful and well read comics news/rumour/gossip column
and enjoyed B5. I work in advertising and also write comedy for radio, TV and
the stage.
The fault in Rising Stars has been down to the pencillers, not the colourists or
inkers. Save for a brief Gary Frank short story, they have been of the Top Cow
house style.
This style originated with Marc Silvestri, a very competent artist who began
riffing on Jim Lee's style. Jim Lee introduced a more manga feel to his work and
was a stand out artist in the late eighties and early nineties. Action, pose,
speed lines, face lines, he did these very well. Both Silvestri and Lee were
part of Image Comics, a breakaway company from Marvel. They shared the same
studio before splitting into Wildstorm and Top Cow. Wildstorm was sold to DC,
Eidos bought a chunk of Top Cow.
At Top Cow, a number of artists began riffing on Silvestri, including Michael
Turner, whose longer darker lines and use of proved popular. And this has
basically become the Top Cow house style and the majority of artists work in
this style. It's bad for anatomy, real-life backgrounds, character identity and
storytelling. All things which seem essential for Rising Stars.
Rising Stars needs a less razzmatazz artist with a better knowledge of reality -
especially how 'people' look. Dave Gibbons, Steve Dillon, Alan Davis, Gary
Frank, Gary Erskine, Steve Pugh, Phil Winslade - these people would be perfect
for Rising Stars.
The current crop are not.
Rich Johnston twis...@hotmail.com
All The Rage and Rich's Rumblings at http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com
Ramblings 2000 at http://come.to/ramblings & http://www.twistandshoutcomics.com
Selling lots of comics at http://www.geocities.com/evenwood/sale.html
Scott Johnson
: While I too admit I'd like to see a new penciller, I don't know what
: the reason for the choice of Zanier was, and continues to be. If he's
: staying, maybe an *embellisher* would be helpful, to bolster the art in
: its weak points?
Preferably one armed with a very good eraser. <g>