Attn JMS: Use of Actors Likenesses for Books
scot...@my-deja.com
Del Rey or Amazing Stories) for using pictures of the actors to promote
the B5 books. Certainly characters like G'Kar should be okay, but when
"Garibaldi" shows up on the cover of Armies of Light and Darkness, that
is Jerry Doyle's face. Do the actors have any say in this?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jms at B5
>Del Rey or Amazing Stories) for using pictures of the actors to promote
>the B5 books. Certainly characters like G'Kar should be okay, but when
>"Garibaldi" shows up on the cover of Armies of Light and Darkness, that
>is Jerry Doyle's face. Do the actors have any say in this?
They agree when they come onto a show that their likeness -- usually in photos
approved by the actors -- can be used for promotion and licensing. They get a
piece of the action on this stuff.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
(all message content (c) 2000 by
synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
to reprint specifically denied to
SFX Magazine)
Kerry Casey
>
> They agree when they come onto a show that their likeness -- usually in
photos
> approved by the actors -- can be used for promotion and licensing. They
get a
> piece of the action on this stuff.
When I first read the B5 graphic novels (the first TV/movie tie-in graphic
novels I've ever looked at), I was struck by how the characters drawn in the
comics bore little relation to the characters on the TV. One could make out
that this was meant to be Garibaldi, for example, but it didn't look very
much like him, and in some scenes it was hard to tell Garibaldi and Sinclair
apart.
I discussed this with friends, and the only explanations we could come up
with were:
1. Drawing accurately from life is difficult
or
2. The publishing company didn't have permission to use the actor's
likenesses, so deliberately made them "un-lifelike"
So, now it looks like explanation 1. From anyone in the newsgroup who can
draw (I can't) , tell me, is it hard to do lifelike drawings, and does this
explain why comics based on TV shows/movies have characters who barely
resemble the originals? Or do likenesses for comics come under a separate
licensing agreement?
Kerry
Kerry Casey
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
E-mail kca...@bom.gov.au
Gharlane of Eddore
In <C%xb5.15$oA....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>
"Kerry Casey" <kca...@bom.gov.au> writes:
>
> When I first read the B5 graphic novels (the first TV/movie tie-in
> graphic novels I've ever looked at), I was struck by how the characters
> drawn in the comics bore little relation to the characters on the TV.
> One could make out that this was meant to be Garibaldi, for example,
> but it didn't look very much like him, and in some scenes it was hard
> to tell Garibaldi and Sinclair apart.
>
> I discussed this with friends, and the only explanations we could come up
> with were:
>
> 1. Drawing accurately from life is difficult
> or
> 2. The publishing company didn't have permission to use the actor's
> likenesses, so deliberately made them "un-lifelike"
>
If this is the first batch, from a few years back, that you're talking
about....
Didn't it occur to you that the comics company just had no respect for
the material, and threw their cheapest, worst, artists at the project?
The graphic-arts equivalent of the Dell Books operation, where they
tossed assignments to a bunch of genre-incompetent kiddie trekkiebook
writers, and then had the gall to charge money for the results?
Same kind of thing.
Saddest part is, some of the comics storylines were decent yarns;
I think in a couple of cases they were actual scripts that didn't
have the opportunity to get shot for airing.
Trek Barnes
Kerry Casey <kca...@bom.gov.au> wrote in message
news:C%xb5.15$oA....@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
> Jms at B5 wrote:
>
> >
> > They agree when they come onto a show that their likeness -- usually in
> photos
> > approved by the actors -- can be used for promotion and licensing. They
> get a
> > piece of the action on this stuff.
>
> novels I've ever looked at), I was struck by how the characters drawn in
the
> comics bore little relation to the characters on the TV. One could make
out
> that this was meant to be Garibaldi, for example, but it didn't look very
> much like him, and in some scenes it was hard to tell Garibaldi and
Sinclair
> apart.
>
> I discussed this with friends, and the only explanations we could come up
> with were:
>
> 1. Drawing accurately from life is difficult
> or
> 2. The publishing company didn't have permission to use the actor's
> likenesses, so deliberately made them "un-lifelike"
>
> draw (I can't) , tell me, is it hard to do lifelike drawings, and does
this
> explain why comics based on TV shows/movies have characters who barely
> resemble the originals? Or do likenesses for comics come under a separate
> licensing agreement?
>
>
(Also Not an artist)
Probably there is a trade-off made between life-like accuracy & the ability
to draw the entire comic in a month.
Gharlane of Eddore
Commenting on the largely rotten artwork in the first
"BABYLON 5" comics,
In <4Z_b5.46982$Fe4.3...@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
"Trek Barnes" <ask...@mediaone.net> writes:
>
> (Also Not an artist)
>
> Probably there is a trade-off made between life-like accuracy & the
> ability to draw the entire comic in a month.
>
This is one with the comments of the "editor" who attempted to excuse
the putridity of many of the text products on the basis of writers only
having a couple of months to "write" novels that were *way* under 100,000
words. ( In one case, approximately *forty* thousand words. )
If you can't do the work, and do it right, before the deadline, you
have no business bidding on the job. If you're responsible for
feeding starving children by any means possible, there are other
avenues of solution, such as burglary and armed robbery, which
carry vastly less social onus, and result in much less diminution
of self-esteem and peer-respect.
More important, when you're a "writer" who can't write, or a comics
"artist" who can't draw, you really need to be thinking about some
other line of work, or getting an honest job to pay the rent while
you take lessons, or practice your skills, to the point where you
won't be damaging your employer's reputation and impairing the
marketability of his other products.
Tom Holt
The message <8kqlh9$q...@news.csus.edu>
from ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) contains
these words:
> More important, when you're a "writer" who can't write, or a comics
> "artist" who can't draw, you really need to be thinking about some
> other line of work, or getting an honest job
Never say that, soul. Most of us are too old or too socially
dysfunctional to get proper jobs in the real world; years of
midnight-oil-burning and caffeine overdoses have rotted our reflexes
and motor skills to the point where we couldn't flip a cheeseburger
under the Golden Arches, or wipe a windshield without snapping off
the radio aerial. On a really bad morning, it can take us up to half
an hour just to put on our pointy hats.
Think of buying our books as a sort of welfare contribution, wuth the
delightful difference that in return for your money you get several
ounces of valuable roof insulation or emergency toilet paper.
James Bell
> <snip>
> Most of us are too old or too socially
> dysfunctional to get proper jobs in the real world; years of
> midnight-oil-burning and caffeine overdoses have rotted our reflexes
> and motor skills to the point where we couldn't flip a cheeseburger
> under the Golden Arches, or wipe a windshield without snapping off
> the radio aerial.
I love the fact that this is such a multicultural group! I just learned
a new term, "radio aerial." Here in the US, we would call it a radio
"antenna."
Man, I learn stuff here all the time.
Jim
Joseph DeMartino
when "The Gathering" aired, there is the possibility that the artist never
saw any pictures of the actors. While feature films doing this kind of
tie-in often have months or even years of lead-time, TV movies tend to be on
very tight schedules, and the adaptations on even tighter ones. (TV
production companies sometimes work only weeks or even days ahead of
airdate, comic book publishers routinely work four of five months ahead of
publication dates because of the vagaries of printing and distribution.) So
the graphic novel may have been done before the film was even cast, in which
case it would have been based on production sketches, costume designs and
set blueprints, but not on any actual film. (I suspect this because any
competent comic book artists can draw a face from photographs. Some of them
routinely base characters on favorite actors and actresses. I remember when
Walt Simonson took over the "Thor" comic book in the late '70s or early '80s
and decided that the goddess Sif should look like Sigourney Weaver. <g>)
Regards,
Joe
Pål Are Nordal
>
> When did the graphic novel come out? If it was timed to be released around
> when "The Gathering" aired, there is the possibility that the artist never
> saw any pictures of the actors.
They came out starting December 94, so that wouldn't have been a problem.
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
Iain Clark
"Gharlane of Eddore" <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote in message
news:8kp0ou$s...@news.csus.edu...
>
> In <C%xb5.15$oA....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>
> "Kerry Casey" <kca...@bom.gov.au> writes:
> >
> > When I first read the B5 graphic novels (the first TV/movie tie-in
> > graphic novels I've ever looked at), I was struck by how the characters
> > drawn in the comics bore little relation to the characters on the TV.
<snip>
> If this is the first batch, from a few years back, that you're talking
> about....
>
> Didn't it occur to you that the comics company just had no respect for
> the material, and threw their cheapest, worst, artists at the project?
>
> The graphic-arts equivalent of the Dell Books operation, where they
> tossed assignments to a bunch of genre-incompetent kiddie trekkiebook
> writers, and then had the gall to charge money for the results?
John Ridgeway, who did Shadows Past and Present (where we see the incident
in which Garibaldi and Sinclair are stranded on Mars) is a fine and
respected comic artist, however he doesn't normally work on TV related
comics. Duplicating the likeness of actors is definitely not his strong
point, and it looks like he didn't have a lot of photographic reference to
work from.
He did work on some Doctor Who comics many years ago where the likeness was
a little better - but Colin Baker's Doctor has many more obvious 'pegs' from
which to hang the likeness.
Iain
--
"Signs, portents, dreams...next thing
we'll be reading tea leaves and chicken entrails."
cgla...@hotmail.com
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) wrote:
>
> Commenting on the largely rotten artwork in the first
> "BABYLON 5" comics,
>
> In <4Z_b5.46982$Fe4.3...@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
> "Trek Barnes" <ask...@mediaone.net> writes:
> >
> > (Also Not an artist)
> >
> > Probably there is a trade-off made between life-like accuracy & the
> > ability to draw the entire comic in a month.
> This is one with the comments of the "editor" who attempted to excuse
> the putridity of many of the text products on the basis of writers
> only having a couple of months to "write" novels that were *way*
> under 100,000 words. ( In one case, approximately *forty* thousand
> words. )
> If you can't do the work, and do it right, before the deadline, you
> have no business bidding on the job. [snip]
> More important, when you're a "writer" who can't write, or a comics
> "artist" who can't draw, you really need to be thinking about some
> other line of work, or getting an honest job to pay the rent while
> you take lessons, or practice your skills, to the point where you
> won't be damaging your employer's reputation and impairing the
> marketability of his other products.
I agree, fully. As a longtime comics reader, I am firmly of the
opinion that if you can't draw an issue of the comic on deadline every
month, you do not deserve to keep your current assignment.
*John Byrne* got his butt canned from the latest HULK run because of
his consistent failure to meet artwork deadlines... and this is a guy
who's been in the comics field for *decades*. The comics companies --
DC and Marvel, at any rate -- simply do not put up with consistently
late work.
In another example, Mark Millar lost his chance to write YOUNG JUSTICE
and it went to Peter David instead solely because he couldn't submit
scripts for the first three months of the run on deadline -- even
though the deadline given for those three scripts was an almost
*impossibly* short two weeks. (Just as the title was starting up, the
guy who was supposed to be writing it -- Todd DeZago -- either quit or
got canned, versions vary, leaving them deeply in the lurch. As such,
the job was effectively open to the first writer who could get issues
#1-3 scripted and in the mail in time to meet the deadline crisis.)
The point is not that I'm any massive fan of Peter David's run on Young
Justice, 'cause Lord knows I'm not. The point is that it is eminently
provable by example both that:
a) you actually can write and/or draw an issue of a comic in under a
month if you're any kind of working pro (some guys, like Byrne, script
*and* draw the comic, single-handed)
b) and if you can't, the comics company should, can, and most often
will remove you from your current assignment.
--
Chuckg
"You got to learn three things. What's real, what's not real, and
what's the difference..." -- Granny Weatherwax
scot...@my-deja.com
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >I was wondering what the legal basis is for you (or more approiately
> >Del Rey or Amazing Stories) for using pictures of the actors to
promote
> >the B5 books. Certainly characters like G'Kar should be okay, but
when
> >"Garibaldi" shows up on the cover of Armies of Light and Darkness,
that
> >is Jerry Doyle's face. Do the actors have any say in this?
>
in photos
> approved by the actors -- can be used for promotion and licensing.
They get a
> piece of the action on this stuff.
>
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> B5 Official Fan Club at:
> http://www.thestation.com
> (all message content (c) 2000 by
> synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
> to reprint specifically denied to
> SFX Magazine)
>
>
Thanks, I am glad to read that they to get something for it.
Kerry Casey
> > >
> > > When I first read the B5 graphic novels (the first TV/movie tie-in
> > > graphic novels I've ever looked at), I was struck by how the
characters
> > > drawn in the comics bore little relation to the characters on the TV.
>
> <snip>
>
> > If this is the first batch, from a few years back, that you're talking
> > about....
> >
> > Didn't it occur to you that the comics company just had no respect for
> > the material, and threw their cheapest, worst, artists at the project?
> >
> > The graphic-arts equivalent of the Dell Books operation, where they
> > tossed assignments to a bunch of genre-incompetent kiddie trekkiebook
> > writers, and then had the gall to charge money for the results?
>
> John Ridgeway, who did Shadows Past and Present (where we see the incident
> in which Garibaldi and Sinclair are stranded on Mars) is a fine and
> respected comic artist, however he doesn't normally work on TV related
> comics. Duplicating the likeness of actors is definitely not his strong
> point, and it looks like he didn't have a lot of photographic reference to
> work from.
>
> He did work on some Doctor Who comics many years ago where the likeness
was
> a little better - but Colin Baker's Doctor has many more obvious 'pegs'
from
> which to hang the likeness.
Thanks for the thoughts. I had looked at other "TV" comics besides Babylon 5
before posting my query, and saw similar problems with the representation of
the characters. I guess an accurate representation takes time, and the
theory is that as long as it looks a bit like the characters, the fans will
know who it's meant to be.
Kerry
--
Larry Jones
>
> I love the fact that this is such a multicultural group! I just learned
> a new term, "radio aerial." Here in the US, we would call it a radio
> "antenna."
Your grandparents (or perhaps their parents) would have called it an
aerial.
-Larry Jones
These pictures will remind us of more than we want to remember.
-- Calvin's Mom