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The Hugos - Dramatic and otherwise

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lcou...@stetson.edu

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Apr 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/27/00
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Well of course as everyone by now no doubt knows Hugo Award nominees are
out. What do you all think?
I find it interesting (and a real slap to Lucas) that SW:Episode 1 was
not nominated. I haven't seen all of the other nominees. Of the ones I
have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF premise is a
bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?
As far as novels are concerned, quite a tight race I would think. On the
other hand, though I _like_ Harry Potter, I really hope it doesn't win.
>From what I know of the novels I would put the Bujold, Vinge, and
Stephensen ahead of it.

Opinions, discussion?

Lisa Coulter


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


Jms at B5

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Apr 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/27/00
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Having seen the list of nominees, which doesn't include any of the B5 TV movies
which would have been eligible, I have to say that...I agree with the slate of
nominees. The list had The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, The Iron Giant and two
others I can't recall right now...and I can't think of ONE of them that I'd
bump for a B5 or Crusade project, much as I like them.

It's an excellent list, and in one sense I'm relieved; if a B5 or Crusade item
had made the final cut, I'd *still* have to vote for the Matrix as best of the
bunch, and I'd hate to have to do that. This saves me the existential angst.

jms

(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
(all message content (c) 2000 by
synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
to reprint specifically denied to
SFX Magazine)

lcou...@stetson.edu

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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In article <20000428012718...@ng-fo1.aol.com>,
I guess I am forgetting the rules here, but other than Crusade eps from
lsat summer, what B5 movies would have been eligible?

Pål Are Nordal

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:
>
> Well of course as everyone by now no doubt knows Hugo Award nominees are
> out. What do you all think?

A bit disappointed that Crusade wasn't on there... but given TNT
actively trying to kill the show - what could we expect. Anybody know
what came in 6th to 10th?

> I find it interesting (and a real slap to Lucas) that SW:Episode 1 was
> not nominated.

Do you think he'd bothered showing up if it was? I bet he couldn't care less.

It's interesting how all the Star Wars hype made anybody ever remotely
famous come out and go on and on about how much science fiction meant to
them. This was of course their way of saying they'd seen the original
trilogy and couldn't wait for TPM.

> I haven't seen all of the other nominees. Of the ones I
> have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF premise is a
> bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?

I suppose I'd have to go for the Matrix too. The effects, and how they
were used, totally blew my mind. And the revelation of what of what the
Matrix was came as a complete surprise, as I'd been far to busy
nitpicking the "magic" to actually consider other explanations.

Still... what exactly is the definition of "Best Dramatic Presentation"?

--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/

Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com

Mark Maher

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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lcou...@stetson.edu wrote in message
<8econv$ifh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

>>
>I guess I am forgetting the rules here, but other than Crusade
eps from
>lsat summer, what B5 movies would have been eligible?
>

"Babylon 5: A Call To Arms" first aired in January of 1999, and
as such would have been eligible.

__!_!__
Gizmo

Pål Are Nordal

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:
>
> I guess I am forgetting the rules here, but other than Crusade eps from
> lsat summer, what B5 movies would have been eligible?

"A Call to Arms" I believe, since it aired just into 1999.

Susan Phillips

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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On 27 Apr 2000 21:50:30 -0600, lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:

>Well of course as everyone by now no doubt knows Hugo Award nominees are
>out. What do you all think?

>I find it interesting (and a real slap to Lucas) that SW:Episode 1 was

It's interesting only in that it proves that, if it couldn't get sf fans
interested, it wasn't that good a movie. I didn't nominate it, myself.
There were a number of other good movies out there. I'm pleased and
surprised to see "Being John Malkovich" up there. It's by far the most
out-there of the nominations, a really good piece of filmmaking and an
original idea. Or as original as these things get. <g>

The Matrix is great, imo, new effects with an old theme. I loved Galaxy
Quest but it was a fun piece of filmmaking, not necessarily Hugo quality,
imo. That said, I'm glad to see it on the ballot. I think it's going to be
between "Sixth Sense" and "The Matrix", although I'm going to have to toss a
coin as to whether to vote for "Sixth Sense" or "Being John Malkovich".


>not nominated. I haven't seen all of the other nominees. Of the ones I


>have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF premise is a
>bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?

>As far as novels are concerned, quite a tight race I would think. On the
>other hand, though I _like_ Harry Potter, I really hope it doesn't win.
>>From what I know of the novels I would put the Bujold, Vinge, and
>Stephensen ahead of it.

I was tickled to see Harry Potter on the ballot. It's a wonderful piece of
YA but I doubt it will win. I haven't read the Vinge and while the Bujold is
a good piece of writing, a long-awaited piece of the Miles Vorkosigan saga, I
don't think it should win. Probably will, though. I'm not a big fan of
Stephensen's type of writing but it's definitely deserving.
Sue

"How can you be anal-retentive if you don't have an anus?"
Bartleby, "Dogma"


Jeff Walther

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Apr 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/28/00
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In article <8ea01v$fn0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:

> I find it interesting (and a real slap to Lucas) that SW:Episode 1 was

> not nominated. I haven't seen all of the other nominees. Of the ones I

Well, it was a pretty poor movie. Plenty of special effects but a lousy
script and too much screen time on poorly done characters. Apparently,
adopting children has led Lucas into the common literary mistake of
believing that entertainment for children should be on a two year old
level--rather than understanding that it should have adult satisfying
sophistication but include some youngsters as main characters.

> have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF premise is a
> bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?

Snort. Good thing I wasn't drinking or eating. Compared to The Matrix,
the SF premise in Galaxy Quest was rock solid. Don't get me wrong. The
Matrix was a fun movie. The action is so densly packed and so beautifully
filmed that it's almost possible to ignore the fact that the people who
made it were completely illiterate in the sciences. Galaxy Quest merely
asks us to believe in some funny looking aliens and some weird
technology. No problem--that's common fair for SF. The Matrix insists
that conservation of energy be ignored, while making it (conservation of
energy) a major plot point of how the setting came to be in the first
place. Moronic.

> >From what I know of the novels I would put the Bujold, Vinge, and

Which novels by Vinge and Stephenson were nominated?


Alyson L. Abramowitz

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Apr 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/29/00
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Pål Are Nordal wrote:
>
> Still... what exactly is the definition of "Best Dramatic Presentation"?

The WSFS (World SF Society) is responsible for administering the Hugo
awards. The following is the definition of Best Dramatic Presentation
from the WSFS constitution:

" 3.3.6: Best Dramatic Presentation. Any production in any medium of
dramatized science fiction, fantasy or related subjects which has been
publicly presented for the first time in its present dramatic form
during the previous calendar."

The entire constitution can be viewed at:

http://www.chicon.org/wsfs/constit.htm#hugo

Chicon (the current worldcon) has done a great job of making
worldcon-related information accessible at or through their site.

Best,
Alyson


John Horner

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Apr 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/30/00
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On 27 Apr 2000 23:27:33 -0600 jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> Having seen the list of nominees, which doesn't include any of the B5 TV movies
> which would have been eligible, I have to say that...I agree with the slate of
> nominees. The list had The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, The Iron Giant and two
> others I can't recall right now...and I can't think of ONE of them that I'd
> bump for a B5 or Crusade project, much as I like them.
>
> It's an excellent list, and in one sense I'm relieved; if a B5 or Crusade item
> had made the final cut, I'd *still* have to vote for the Matrix as best of the
> bunch, and I'd hate to have to do that. This saves me the existential angst.

I quite enjoyed The Matrix--the fx were truly wonderful--but for
straight-
ahead story telling I'd have to go with The Sixth Sense, which pulled
me into the story and then spun me in quiet circles at the end. I think
The Iron Giant is an excellent nomination because it was so
beautifully crafted with telling attention to delightful detail, and
helps
expand what the Hugo might be given for.

A rich year for this catagory.


John
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Wesley Struebing

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May 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/1/00
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On 27 Apr 2000 23:27:33 -0600, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:

>Having seen the list of nominees, which doesn't include any of the B5 TV movies
>which would have been eligible, I have to say that...I agree with the slate of
>nominees. The list had The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, The Iron Giant and two
>others I can't recall right now...and I can't think of ONE of them that I'd
>bump for a B5 or Crusade project, much as I like them.
>
>It's an excellent list, and in one sense I'm relieved; if a B5 or Crusade item
>had made the final cut, I'd *still* have to vote for the Matrix as best of the
>bunch, and I'd hate to have to do that. This saves me the existential angst.
>

> jms
>
Joe, forgive me if you've already been asked this and answered it -

What, other than special effects would possibly cause "the Matrix" to
win? It had no plot (or an extremely unbelievable one not
well-handled), and Keanu Reeves can't act his way out of a paper
bag...

Just curious...I know you raved about it even before nominations came
out.

David Goldfarb

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May 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/1/00
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In article <trag-28040...@as1-dialup-125.io.com>,

Jeff Walther <tr...@io.com> wrote:
>> >From what I know of the novels I would put the Bujold, Vinge, and
>
>Which novels by Vinge and Stephenson were nominated?

The ones that were eligible, of course. :-)

To wit, _A Deepness in the Sky_ and _Cryptonomicon_, respectively.
_Deepness_ is brilliant and IMHO the front-runner.

--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Just once I'd like to battle an alien menace
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | that *wasn't* immune to bullets."
aste...@slip.net | -- Brigadier Lethbridge-Stuart
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | Doctor Who: "Robot"


lcou...@stetson.edu

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May 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/2/00
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In article <V5oO4.27820$PV.19...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,

"Mark Maher" <marka...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> lcou...@stetson.edu wrote in message
> <8econv$ifh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >>
> >I guess I am forgetting the rules here, but other than Crusade
> eps from
> >lsat summer, what B5 movies would have been eligible?
> >
>
> "Babylon 5: A Call To Arms" first aired in January of 1999, and
> as such would have been eligible.
>
> __!_!__
> Gizmo
*Grump* I will be a voting member from now on if anything I really like
is eligible, I will, I will, I will.

lcou...@stetson.edu

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May 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/2/00
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In article <trag-28040...@as1-dialup-125.io.com>,
I misspoke. Meant that I felt Matrix had a weak SF premise. Not Galxy
Quest.

>
> > >From what I know of the novels I would put the Bujold, Vinge, and
>
> Which novels by Vinge and Stephenson were nominated?
>
Vinge - A Deepenss in the Sky
Stephenson - Cryptonomicon

Jeff Walther

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May 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/2/00
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In article <8emub3$9qc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:

> > > have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF premise
> is a
> > > bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?

> I misspoke. Meant that I felt Matrix had a weak SF premise. Not Galxy
> Quest.

I reread your writing and now see what you meant. You didn't exactly
misspeak. It was simply possible to interpret your meaning more than one
way, but I think your intended meaning probably comes through if the
reader isn't having a brain fart at the time of the reading. My apologies
for not reading more carefully.

> > Which novels by Vinge and Stephenson were nominated?
> >
> Vinge - A Deepenss in the Sky
> Stephenson - Cryptonomicon

Thank you. I really like "A Deepness in the Sky". I haven't made time
for the "Cryptonomicon" yet. I guess I'm still a little shy after "The
Diamond Age." I liked it. It was a good book, but I felt like "The
Diamond Age" needed an ending and didn't really have one.


lcou...@stetson.edu

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May 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/3/00
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In article <trag-03050...@aus-as3-050.io.com>,

tr...@io.com (Jeff Walther) wrote:
> In article <8emub3$9qc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:
>
> > > > have seen, although Galaxy Quest was fun, and I feel its SF
premise
> > is a
> > > > bit weak, I would pick The Matrix. Opinions?
>
> > I misspoke. Meant that I felt Matrix had a weak SF premise. Not
Galxy
> > Quest.
>
> I reread your writing and now see what you meant. You didn't exactly
> misspeak. It was simply possible to interpret your meaning more than
one
> way, but I think your intended meaning probably comes through if the
> reader isn't having a brain fart at the time of the reading. My
apologies
> for not reading more carefully.
>
That's quite ok. You would not want to know my mental state during some
of my posts!

Iain Clark

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May 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/5/00
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"Wesley Struebing" <str...@americanisp.com> wrote in message
news:3rjpgsklqch7k056k...@4ax.com...

That's an extremely subjective statement! :-)

Personally I thought it had wit, style, pace, intelligence, and Keanu Reeves
gave his best performance in years. As SF it had a strong pulp element that
sometimes overwhelmed its common sense, but as Science Fantasy and allegory
it excelled. (In fact, such is the state of SF movies that it still stood
head and shoulders above the current crowd!)

Iain

--
"Signs, portents, dreams...next thing
we'll be reading tea leaves and chicken entrails."

Nathan Shafer

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May 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/5/00
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Wesley Struebing wrote:
>
> What, other than special effects would possibly cause "the Matrix"
> to win? It had no plot (or an extremely unbelievable one not well-
> handled)

You know, the genre of "Science Fiction" is a broad one, and it
includes a lot of sub-genres; Hard SF is not the only one. There's
spcae opera as well, as well as science fantasy. As far as I know,
the Hugos are not limited to only plausible Hard SF.

Your own opinions notwithstanding, I thought "The Matrix" had a
*wonderful* plot, with many levels of meaning. The foreshadowing
was some of the best I've scene (the dialog in the Keanu's first
ten minutes on screen tells the whole story of the movie, without
giving anything away). When we watched the DVD with some friends who
had never seen it, we stayed up talking for two hours discussing
various philosophical, moral and religious issues raised by the
movie...then watched the whole thing through again! I hadn't personally
done anything like that since college. And my friend's wife went
into this very hesitantly; she is a very gentle soul, who hates
violence in all forms, has pledged when they have kids not to allow
toy guns, her politics are very liberal...and she LOVED the movie.
Went out and bought the soundtrack, bought the movie, etc.

So while I respect your opinion, I would ask you to also respect the
opinions of those of us for whom "The Matrix" is some of the best
movie-SF to come around in years.


j...@gte.net

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May 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/5/00
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I would go for "The Sixth Sense." There was nothing else nominated
that I liked as much as that movie. I almost didn't see it at all,
until a friend gave me the key:
"The kid is not cute, and he CAN act."

As for Novel, I find it odd that "Cryptonomicon" is nominated, but I
am halfway through it and really like it so I would most likely vote
for it.


Wesley Struebing

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May 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/6/00
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On 5 May 2000 14:01:39 -0600, Nathan Shafer <sha...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Wesley Struebing wrote:
>>
>> What, other than special effects would possibly cause "the Matrix"
>> to win? It had no plot (or an extremely unbelievable one not well-
>> handled)
>

>


>So while I respect your opinion, I would ask you to also respect the
>opinions of those of us for whom "The Matrix" is some of the best
>movie-SF to come around in years.

Oh, I do respect your and others opinions - which is why I couched my
question in the terms that I did. I didn't see those things in it -
you did, and that's OK. I'm sorry if that didn't come across. That's
what I was trying to find out - why other people felt it a good flick.
Well, actually why JMS thought it was Hugo quality...but you'll do<G>

Pelzo63

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May 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/6/00
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>why other people felt it a good flick.

because, for the first time since speed, i wasn't saying to myself; "man, keanu
is a horrible actor". <g> that alone should get it the oscar, hugo, and
anything else it wants.


Iain Reid

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May 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/7/00
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"Pelzo63" <pel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000506213927...@ng-mb1.aol.com...

I dunno, I always have this nagging doubt that Keanu should be punished for
the rest of his natural life for his potrayal of Johnathon Harker in
"Dracula" via the normal Hollwood method of "Never Working in this Town
Again". That being so, no movie that employs him should be allowed to have
an award simply because they prevented that punishment.

Iain Reid


Pelzo63

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May 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/7/00
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"Iain Reid" theva...@callnet0800.com wrote:

>I dunno, I always have this nagging doubt that Keanu >should be punished
>for
>the rest of his natural life for his potrayal of >Johnathon Harker in
>"Dracula" via the normal Hollwood method of "Never >Working in this Town
>Again". That being so, no movie that employs him >should be allowed to have
>an award simply because they prevented that >punishment.

hmm, i think it's quite an accomplishment, given that only 2 roles have done
that(speed being the other, Bill & Ted doesn't count since he portrayed
himself!) <g>


WWS

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May 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/7/00
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The other movie in which he portrayed himself is "I LOVE YOU TO DEATH"
an absolutely marvelous little movie that didn't get a whole lot of
hype but is well worth seeing if you run across it. Keanu actually
has a pretty small part, what makes the movie is the interplay between
Tracy Ullman, Kevin Cline, and Joan Plowright. The scene at a dinner
table where they have a family argument in 3 languages simultaneously
is one of my favorite comedy scenes ever!

--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

"He looks like whats-his-name..... man, what's his name?"
Keanu Reeves in "I LOVE YOU TO DEATH"


Gharlane of Eddore

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May 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/8/00
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On the Hugo Nominees,

In <390A19FA...@bigfoot.com> a_b...@bigfoot.com writes:
>
> A bit disappointed that Crusade wasn't on there... but given TNT
> actively trying to kill the show - what could we expect. Anybody
> know what came in 6th to 10th?
>

....<deletia>

>
> I suppose I'd have to go for the Matrix too. The effects, and how
> they were used, totally blew my mind. And the revelation of what
> of what the Matrix was came as a complete surprise, as I'd been far
> to busy nitpicking the "magic" to actually consider other explanations.
>

"A complete revelation?" Riiiiiight.

>
> Still... what exactly is the definition of "Best Dramatic Presentation"?
>


"Best Dramatic Presentation" would presumably involve some form of
script and performance art, which pretty much eliminates "MATRIX"
from consideration; since the script was droolingly stupid and
incoherently discontiguous, it can best be regarded as a framing
opportunity used for the presentation of what I have referred to
elsewhere as "lyrically beautiful Sam Peckinpah-style FX shootouts."

"MATRIX" is mediocre SkiFfy, and certainly doesn't qualify as any
sort of "Science Fiction." It's hacked-together fantasy.

While it's certainly deserving of attention, primarily for the
FX and editing, and I don't regret the four bucks I spent to see
it on the big screen, I certainly won't buy a copy on laserdisk
or DVD, since I have no desire to see it again; but I *did* arrange
to purchase a copy of "THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR" on DVD, since I have a
lot more respect for a classic SF yarn brought in competently on
half the budget that was whizzed away on "THE MATRIX."

Now, if you wanted to create a Special Hugo For FX work, I'd certainly
go along with giving that to "THE MATRIX."

But even "GALAXY QUEST" ( come to think of it, delete that "even" )
afforded better "dramatic presentation," since it gave us real
characters, each of whom grew and changed within the frame of the
narrative, and whose situation was the result of interaction with
a technology outside the norm. Yes, "GALAXY QUEST" was written
as a satire; but the *validity* of the effort is predicated on the
fact that Howard Gordon went out of his way to write a story with a
beginning, a middle, and an end, and show us real people in
situations that were logical concomitants of the basic framework,
without any major logical infelicities and stupidities.

"THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR" was a direct and respectful adaption of one
of the first major novel exercises in VR, and had a straightforward
development of a classic plotline that everyone else has been mining
since the book was published in 1963. Get that? THIRTY-SEVEN
YEARS the material was out there. Rainer Fassbinder did the first
major screen adaption of the book ( "SIMULACRON-3" by Daniel F.
Galouye ) in 1974 ( German TV, "DIE WELT AM DRAHT" ) and there's
been just a *BIT* of similar material out there for quite a long
time.

The Wachowski Boys did *nothing* new or original or imaginative in
their project, and in point of fact shopped it all over town for quite
a long time before finding that it could be shot cheaply enough in
Australia to get it made. ( "MATRIX" had an official Aussie
budget of about $65M , as opposed to the roughly $85M-$90M it would
have cost in the U.S., which is the only reason it managed to get
made. Consider that "THIRTEENTH FLOOR" told a better story, and
told it better, for about HALF that much. )

In short, if you vote for "THE MATRIX," you're voting for the
Pretty Pictures, not for "best dramatic presentation."

JMS is on record as regarding "MATRIX" as something special.
This stance beggars belief, and leads me ineluctably to the
conclusion that producing a TV series for five years causes
permanent and irrevocable brain damage, and complete disability
in regard to understanding and appreciating theatrical drama.


Pål

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May 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/10/00
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Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
>
> The Wachowski Boys did *nothing* new or original or imaginative in
> their project, and in point of fact shopped it all over town for quite
> a long time before finding that it could be shot cheaply enough in
> Australia to get it made. ( "MATRIX" had an official Aussie
> budget of about $65M , as opposed to the roughly $85M-$90M it would
> have cost in the U.S., which is the only reason it managed to get
> made. Consider that "THIRTEENTH FLOOR" told a better story, and
> told it better, for about HALF that much. )

Which is probably what my gut was trying to tell me.

The big problem is that, while I don't normally go for pretty pictures,
the film gave me more "instant gratifaction" than anything I've seen...
ever. The effects... the pacing... the "energy"... just left me stunned.

I guess it comes down to what one likes best vs. what deserves to win.

> In short, if you vote for "THE MATRIX," you're voting for the
> Pretty Pictures, not for "best dramatic presentation."

Never fear - this was all hypothetical. I won't be near anything
resembling a Hugo ballot, this year at least.

> JMS is on record as regarding "MATRIX" as something special.
> This stance beggars belief, and leads me ineluctably to the
> conclusion that producing a TV series for five years causes
> permanent and irrevocable brain damage, and complete disability
> in regard to understanding and appreciating theatrical drama.

Dammit. What's my excuse? I can't get by on young and foolish forever.

And at this point it occurs to me that I haven't actually seen any of
the other nominees.

I'll shut up now.

lcou...@stetson.edu

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May 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/11/00
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In article <3919C75C...@bigfoot.com>,
Although I doubt I'll get near a Hugo ballot either, just a few
comments. My husband was rewatching our DVD of Matirx last night, and
what really struck me was the "mythic" elements - the "One" (he even
dies and comes back), the Medium, one man against a great evil (great
libertarian message -ala Rollerball). I think maybe that is one of the
reasons I like Matrix so much. Just a sucker for mythos. I ahve to admit
I still feel its SF backstory is weak - but then again, anyone read the
latest Bill Joy article on 21st century technologies in _Wired_?
As for me, the only other one I have seen is _Galaxy Quest_ and between
the two I would pick _Matrix_ if I had it to do - more original, better
fx, and just more *stunning*. OTOH, I haven't seen _Sixth Sense_ yet,
and numerous people have raved about it to me.
As for the novel category (come on folks, I know people in this group
read!) I'd bet its between the Vinge (Deepness in the Sky) and the
Stephensen (Cryptonomicon). What a choice!

WWS

unread,
May 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/11/00
to

lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:
>
> >
> Although I doubt I'll get near a Hugo ballot either, just a few
> comments. My husband was rewatching our DVD of Matirx last night, and
> what really struck me was the "mythic" elements - the "One" (he even
> dies and comes back), the Medium, one man against a great evil (great
> libertarian message -ala Rollerball). I think maybe that is one of the
> reasons I like Matrix so much. Just a sucker for mythos. I ahve to admit
> I still feel its SF backstory is weak - but then again, anyone read the
> latest Bill Joy article on 21st century technologies in _Wired_?
> As for me, the only other one I have seen is _Galaxy Quest_ and between
> the two I would pick _Matrix_ if I had it to do - more original, better
> fx, and just more *stunning*. OTOH, I haven't seen _Sixth Sense_ yet,
> and numerous people have raved about it to me.
> As for the novel category (come on folks, I know people in this group
> read!) I'd bet its between the Vinge (Deepness in the Sky) and the
> Stephensen (Cryptonomicon). What a choice!

Matrix - Best Eye Candy
Galaxy Quest - Best Comedy
6th Sense - Best Ending
13th Floor - Best Story


As far as the Hugo, gotta go with Vernor all the way!

--

_________________________________________________WWS_____________

Think parochially, post globally -- Peter McDermott


Jon Niehof

unread,
May 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/13/00
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> Personally I thought it had wit, style, pace,
> intelligence, and Keanu Reeves gave his best performance
> in years. As SF it had a strong pulp element that
> sometimes overwhelmed its common sense, but as Science
> Fantasy and allegory it excelled. (In fact, such is the
> state of SF movies that it still stood head and
> shoulders above the current crowd!)
Matrix wasn't bad, and certainly it was the best KR
performance I've seen (not saying a lot, but saying
something). However, I would still consider The Thirteenth
Floor to be a better film overall. Unfortunately, it got
squished by the twin beasts of Star Wars (sci-fi in
May/June) and Matrix (subject matter).

--Jon, N9RUJ jnie...@calvin.edu www.calvin.edu/~jnieho38

"I have been compelled to involuntarily promote
myself into management." --RMS

lcou...@stetson.edu

unread,
May 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/15/00
to
In article <391B0797...@tyler.net>,
As far as Best Dramatic Presentation - am I missing something? Didn't
think 13th Floor was nominated (at least for final ballot)
I thought it was: Galaxy Quest, Matrix, Sixth Sense, Iron Giant,Being
John Malkovitch.
However, having seen Sixth Sense Saturday, I have to say I think I have
changed my mind. *Consistent* fantasy/ghost story with a great twist. I
would go for it over Matrix. Can't comment on 13th Fllor, except it is
on my "to see" list given postings here.
Lisa Coulter

> _________________________________________________WWS_____________
>
> Think parochially, post globally -- Peter McDermott
>
>

WWS

unread,
May 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM5/15/00
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lcou...@stetson.edu wrote:
>
> In article <391B0797...@tyler.net>,
> WWS <wsch...@tyler.net> wrote:

> > Matrix - Best Eye Candy
> > Galaxy Quest - Best Comedy
> > 6th Sense - Best Ending
> > 13th Floor - Best Story
> >
> > As far as the Hugo, gotta go with Vernor all the way!
> >
> > --
> >
> As far as Best Dramatic Presentation - am I missing something? Didn't
> think 13th Floor was nominated (at least for final ballot)

Oh, no, it wasn't. It should have been. Those labels above are just
my personal opinions, as you can see I liked all four for different
reasons.


> I thought it was: Galaxy Quest, Matrix, Sixth Sense, Iron Giant,Being
> John Malkovitch.
> However, having seen Sixth Sense Saturday, I have to say I think I have
> changed my mind. *Consistent* fantasy/ghost story with a great twist. I
> would go for it over Matrix. Can't comment on 13th Fllor, except it is
> on my "to see" list given postings here.

Matrix has the big budget and the "mythos", 13th floor has a plot
that actually makes sense on nearly every level.

I like 6th sense, but really don't think Ghost Stories should be in
the running for a Hugo. Just my opinion. Overall, I think I'll go
for Galaxy Quest, I haven't laughed that much in a theatre in ages.
--

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