JMS: B5 Declared Vulgar?!
Derek Beebe
Recently, the Center for Media and Public Affairs
(CMPA) released its
new study "The Rude and the Crude: Profanity in
Popular Entertainment"
which examines the use of profanity and verbal filth
on television. In the
study's ranking of the twelve most foul-mouthed
series on broadcast and
cable TV, two science fiction series stood out. As a
syndicated series,
Bablylon 5 tied for fourth among broadcast
television shows in coarse
language and profanity used. Farscape, which appears
on the Sci-Fi
network, tied for tenth among cable series.
--The
Washington Post
Tammy Smith
is an atheist! I think these people who make all sorts of ridiculous
accusations against series need to get lives!
Tammy
PS--Funny that I've learned more about life from an atheist than I ever
did in church!
J. Weaver Jr.
In you read the entire Post article about this, you'll note that almost
everything about this "study" is both questionable and questioned.
...starting, of course, with the fact that, for the 1998-1999 television
season which the survey covers, B5 was _not_ a "syndicated series", but
rather a cable series, appearing exclusively on TNT. -JW
Jms at B5
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
Derek Beebe
> In you read the entire Post article about this, you'll note that almost
> everything about this "study" is both questionable and questioned.
> ...starting, of course, with the fact that, for the 1998-1999 television
> season which the survey covers, B5 was _not_ a "syndicated series", but
> rather a cable series, appearing exclusively on TNT. -JW
I DIDN'T read the article at all, I only copied this clip of it from a news
website (www.anotheruniverse.com). I had no idea that this was not the whole
article. Not my fault!
Bill
the most unreasonably violent show on TV, while saying kids should watch
Homicide: Life on the Street and NYPD Blue because those contain positive
messages? (like to meet the genious who came up with that list) These
"findings" rarely have any worth to them. Kinda like the most violent video
games or most violent TV shows. Pick a random 3 to 5 letter abreviation,
pick the titles with the top ten veiwing/selling records for a given year,
and you have an expert study. Its a good idea to just ignore these family
health top ten lists when they are associated with Joseph Lieberman, Tipper
Gore, CMPA, a congressional "bi-partisan" commitee, or another other group
who's press release has to remind people that they are experts.
I'm sure some wacko groups would have declared B5 bad due to the athiest
creator, but they've probably already declared TV to be pure evil (note
wacko, not jewish, christian, muslim, hindu, buddist, falun gong, or any
other group with sincere religious concerns. Anyone who would denounce a
show for soley that reason is just a wacko. I honestly admire how JMS
handled religion in B5, neither claiming one to be correct nor all to be
incorrect).
As far as use of foul language, I think the worst I ever heard would have
been "damnit!" from Garabaldi, Ivanova, or Sheridan. My grandmother for one
doesn't consider that profanity.
"Tammy Smith" <gka...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25843-38...@storefull-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Tom Holt
The message <93C54.27$H_5....@typhoon1.rdc-detw.rr.com>
from "Bill" <rufi...@hotmail.com> contains these words:
> As far as use of foul language, I think the worst I ever heard would have
> been "damnit!" from Garabaldi, Ivanova, or Sheridan. My grandmother for one
> doesn't consider that profanity.
Marcus said 'Bugger' ('Oh bugger, now I'll have to wake one of them
up'; probably my favorite line in all 5 seasons) This is hardly
excessive, by any reasonable standards.
I'm afraid JMS will have to try harder if he wants to add a Rory (For
The Most Gratuitous Use Of The Word 'Fuck' In A Screenplay) to his
trophy cabinet
Thomas A. Horsley
I can usually see where these groups are coming from (not agree with them,
but see where they are at - very important to remember that :-), but in this
case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
Ivanova saying "boffed"?
Londo saying his action figure lacked "attributes"?
Sheridan saying "Get the hell out of our galaxy!"?
Dr. Franklin giving out free condoms to the pak'm'ra (wait, I think
I just imagined that one :-).
Where on earth is there any bee to get up these people's bonnet?
--
>>==>> The *Best* political site <URL:http://www.vote-smart.org/> >>==+
email: Tom.H...@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+
The Nuclear Marine
movie ever made. Their source of info? Why the NCTV (National
Coalition on Television Violence). Now for irregularities of that
organization.
1: Rambo was a theatrical movie, not tv show
2: It teamed up with Pat Pulling (who founded Bothered About Dungeons
and Dragons[another goofy organization], back when the wild satanic
claims were popular.) and attacked movies from ET, Star Wars and
Gremlins to The Emerald Forest
3: It's founder, Psychiatrist Thomas Radecki, was suspended for 5 years
by the medical association for improper sexual relations with a patient.
Now this and others were found out from CAR-PGa (Commitee on the
Advacacy of Role-Playing Games) which researches not only the benefits
of role-playing games but also investigates negative reporting on the
subject. As a by-product it collected a cross reference of articles
concerning Satanic Panics, Falsely applied negetive aspects of video
games, false-memory syndrome.
I do not doubt this article in the Washington Post has found its way to
the CAR-PGa chairperson and a reply was to the newspaper.
For those of you who are wondering CAR-PGa is a non-profit
organization. Active membership is based on research dues. The dues
happen to be only as simple as newspaper articles, studies, or even
scholarly work concerning the beneficial factors of Role-Playing Games.
No, I didn't mean for this to turn into such a spam reply but it seemed
to be relevent to the original post.
For more info go to an unofficial website
http://members.aol.com/waltonwj/carpga.htm
Derek Beebe wrote:
>
> Is Bab 5 A Dirty Bird?
>
> Recently, the Center for Media and Public Affairs
> (CMPA) released its new study "The Rude and the Crude: Profanity in
> Popular Entertainment" which examines the use of profanity and verbal filth
> on television. In the study's ranking of the twelve most foul-mouthed
> series on broadcast and cable TV, two science fiction series stood out. As a
> syndicated series, Bablylon 5 tied for fourth among broadcast
> television shows in coarse language and profanity used. Farscape, which appears
> on the Sci-Fi network, tied for tenth among cable series.
>
> --The Washington Post
==============================================
Bambi, did you kill those people!?
Yes, but only a little.
norv...@sirius.com
gka...@webtv.net (Tammy Smith) wrote:
> I'm surprised that someone hasn't declared B5 a bad series because jms
> is an atheist! I think these people who make all sorts of ridiculous
> accusations against series need to get lives!
It must've been how everything on B5 kept going to hell. :-)
"Hell" was used quite a lot -- no, I'm *not* going to make a count.
<grin>. A few "damns", "absofragginlutely", "bloody". Oh, how scary, how
utterly evil; this charge must be coming from the sort of "watchdog"
people who called "Doctor Who" terrifyingly evil for poor, dear, innocent
children...
> PS--Funny that I've learned more about life from an atheist than I ever
> did in church!
B5 was certainly more interesting than my occasional church experiences
ever were. ;-) (My stupidest experience with religion was possibly when a
priest who'd never known my grandfather attempted to eulogize the ol' git
-- which left his family members staring at each other like "WHAT is he
talking about??" Gah, spare me...)
Shaz
"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991214180708...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
> And I couldn't possibly be prouder.
>
> jms
I can understand that <G>
I wish they could see the latest offering of cop show from BBC2 over here.
Every other word is F**k or C**t or some such. Bet that'd make them spin.
And it's shown at about 9.30 p.m.. It's also, apparently, one of the most
accurate shows about UK police ever done. Can't say I'm wildly impressed
with their behaviour, to be honest, but it doesn't surprise me.
Now C4 are running B5 at 2 a.m. and last Sunday/Monday morning we were shown
the edited version of Comes the Inquisitor.
<Grrrrrrrrrrr>
Methinks someone at C4 is asleep. That or the bozos who produced this
'report' are monitoring them.
Shaz
Matthew B. Vincent
>Is Bab 5 A Dirty Bird?
> Recently, the Center for Media and Public Affairs
>(CMPA) released its
> new study "The Rude and the Crude: Profanity in
>Popular Entertainment"
> which examines the use of profanity and verbal filth
>on television.
"Verbal filth"? They could at least pretend to use objective terms which imply
a consistent operational definition. So what the f*ck does "verbal filth" mean
anyway? (I'd better include that "*", just in case I find myself on a list of
most vulgar posters :P).
There's no real harm done by exposing anyone to sexual content or swear words.
It's only a matter of offending prudish societal norms and taboos, which have
been constructed on an arbitrary basis anyway.
I'm appalled that sex and swearing are put in the same category as violence
when it comes to things which the audience need to be protected from. Now
violence on TV is a genuine problem, at least when it comes to demonstrating
it as a valid way to exert power and control over someone. Note that even
though B5 contains a considerable amount of violent *content*, the way it's
contextualised actually discourages rather than supports violence.
Matthew
JBONETATI
<<....but in this
case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
Ivanova saying "boffed"?
Londo saying his action figure lacked "attributes"?
Sheridan saying "Get the hell out of our galaxy!"?
Dr. Franklin giving out free condoms to the pak'm'ra (wait, I think
I just imagined that one :-).>>
Don't forget Garibaldi in Deconstruction of Falling Stars: "If I were you,
Danny boy I'd bend over and kiss your ass goodbye".
Jan
Jms at B5
>case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
Doesn't matter, and don't bother, because it ain't about the show, it's about
this group trying to garner publicity and attention by attacking TV shows, the
oldest and smarmiest trick in the book.
Angela Hays
scumbags that frequently appear on the show. (down-below thieves, smugglers,
politicians etc. -- not our regular cast members). I come from a family of
very religious people (and I try to be one myself). I never had any problems
recommending B5 to anyone. And I plan to show it to my kids someday (Lord
willing, I have them).
If they're complaining about B5, why don't they watch NBC? One
"must-see-TV" night during the last sweeps, every show used the word b*tch
at least once during the night. I turned to my husband and said, "When did
they start using that word on network TV?" Not like I hadn't heard it
before (or even used it on occassion), but I thought George Carlin's "7
words" still applied. I guess I was wrong.
in_vale...@hotmail.com
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >I can usually see where these groups are coming from (not agree with
> >them, but see where they are at - very important to remember that
:-), but in this
> >case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
>
> Doesn't matter, and don't bother, because it ain't about the show,
it's about
> this group trying to garner publicity and attention by attacking TV
shows, the
> oldest and smarmiest trick in the book.
Not a very smart one, though. At least in execution. B5 isn't so well
known that the mainstream would probably care what the group had to say
about it.
And anyone who takes a moment, must wonder how seriously they take
"early to bed, early to rise ..." that they choose B5 instead of
Saturday Night Live or the Howard Stern show? :)
scott tilson.
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Before you buy.
Thomas A. Horsley
>>but see where they are at - very important to remember that :-), but in this
>>case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
>
>Doesn't matter, and don't bother, because it ain't about the show, it's about
>this group trying to garner publicity and attention by attacking TV shows, the
>oldest and smarmiest trick in the book.
Wait, I think I figured it out! In River of Souls the virtual reality
sex shop operator said he had more women than men customers for his
holo-Lochley. That's bound to set knees to jerking...
Either that, or the episode where Marcus was explaining to Ivonava that
he didn't believe in premarital sex :-).
Matthew B. Vincent
>Either that, or the episode where Marcus was explaining to Ivonava that
>he didn't believe in premarital sex :-).
That isn't what he said, IIRC. Marcus just wanted to wait for his first time
to be special; marital status didn't have anything to do with it.
Thank heavens, because the waiting-until-marriage custom is pretty
inappropriate, for a variety of reasons.
Marcus's interest in waiting was unusual for a male (based on today's societal
norms) so it was a good thing to include. Same deal with Garibaldi and Dodger.
Matthew
James Buster
Bill <rufi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>This wouldn't be the same group that said Amerca's Funniest Home Videos was
>the most unreasonably violent show on TV, while saying kids should watch
>Homicide: Life on the Street and NYPD Blue because those contain positive
>messages?
H:LotS was a great show. Most of the violence on H:LotS is off-screen.
--
Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking
atomsphere of poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not
much like Earth.
ImRastro
are singling B5 out.
JBONETATI wrote:
>Tom.H...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
><<....but in this
>case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
>
Ronin and Annie
Garibaldi :"If that son of a bitch comes onto the station I want him shot on
sight." Marcus: "Susan!" After hearing of the betrayal and capture of
Sheridan on Mars.
Annie :)
Matt Maurano
that was in TQOM...
Rob Perkins
> Doesn't matter, and don't bother, because it ain't about the show, it's
about
> this group trying to garner publicity and attention by attacking TV shows,
the
> oldest and smarmiest trick in the book.
You know, in defense of the show (now that you've said not to bother), I
found little that was really offensive, and since I don't know the criteria
of this groups analysis, I wouldn't know how to defend it.
It seemed to me that all the profanity that was present in the show was well
placed, and meaningful in its context. None of the sex included in the show
was intended just to turn the audience on; it had a place in JMS's story.
None of the violence was terribly gory (hurray for PPG's), except maybe the
depiction of Franklin's walkabout epiphany, and that, too, was central to
the story. Well, there was that dead Ranger in the lifepod thingy in "No
Compromises", but even that was part of the story.
It seems to me that JMS's intentions are all about the story.
JMS, I hope more of your stuff can get on the air, and soon. My wife said to
me yesterday, "You know, I miss Babylon 5! Nothing else on the air
compares!"
Rob
the...@pobox.com
> >case I can't even imagine what they might be on about...
>
> this group trying to garner publicity and attention by attacking TV shows, the
> oldest and smarmiest trick in the book.
>
>
I took a few minutes to poke around their web site today. My impression is
that they've got a mostly right-wing agenda, so they probably don't care for
B5s politics. It's hard to see how B5 could be considered the fourth most
vulgar show on TeeVee by any reasonable standard (it'd have to come in at
least behind everything on Fox, to begin with..).
Kurtz
<the...@pobox.com> wrote in message news:83bbdd$ak3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
So did I (actually, I was hoping to find out more about the Post article -
specifically, the criteria used to judge the shows). I consider myself a
moderate politically - I'm a conservative Democrat - but I didn't find too
much there all that objectionable. It's hard to dispute that TV is more
violent
and sex-laden these days than it used to be. It's getting old to spice up
shows with violence and sex.
I think the television and film industry is changingthis in places. I can
remember in the 80's when *any* film with an R rating was going to have
a sex scene of some kind, and it usually didn't fit in with the story.
Seemed formulaic - you watch the movie, learn the conflict, introduce
the villain, the hero falters a few times, doubts himself - insert sex
scene -
and goes back and gets the bad guy. I'm finding I like the old B & W
classics
more and more nowadays. They aren't always so predictable.
But jeez-o-pete. Babylon 5? My mom loved that show, and trust me, she'd
object if it were objectionable. She won't watch shows like Friends or
Seinfeld
(when it was on) and a few others because she feels it focuses too much
on sex.
B5's "politics"? If it was supposed to be political commentary on today's
climate, it wasn't evident to me. I know a little about what JMS believes,
and
we don't agree on a lot of things, but I don't think it comes out in the
series.
CMPA would have to be run be really vindictive types to slap a series with
a vulgar title that has already left the air.
Is it possible they judged it on just a few shows, and the ones they picked
were
a little over the edge? Remember, they based this on cable 'series', so it
would
HAVE to be season 5 - and possibly the movies. Maybe they saw Lyta doin' the
nasty with Byron? The holo-brothel in River of Souls? Dodger and Garibaldi?
Or maybe, violence - like the guy getting spaced in The Corps is Mother
etc.?
The chart listed a number, like some kind of gauge of objectionable
instances.
I think the number next to B5 was '17'. Maybe they sampled a few shows from
season 5. I'd like to know how they judged it. Maybe they ARE overly
conservative,
but I can't judge until I know more facts.