Racing the Night (no spoilers)
Erick Rossovich
Unlike previously aired episodes, i felt that this one worked on all
levels. From the opening teasing until the ending the credits, it was
even and paced.
I have renewed interest in the next four eps.
If the other four pre-TNT interference eps are of this quality, I will
be disappointed that the show does not continue.
One other note, I do like the old/new black unis, altho the grays
would've been fine (bearable, and then later growing on me) with me if I
had never seen the black ones. This is especially true if the story
quality is always like this ep, where I'm enjoying the writing and thus
too busy to gripe about the unis.
Jms at B5
>If the other four pre-TNT interference eps are of this quality, I will
>be disappointed that the show does not continue.
>
They're either all at this level or better (in my admittedly biased opinion).
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
Roanna
the lineage and early childhood education of TNT executives and
had wondered just how many times the handbook said that the
network head had to have been dropped on his cerebellum to
qualify for the position.
Don't I recall, somewhere in TNT's spin control words to the
effect "we wanted an adventure series, and this wasn't what we
expected" ?
Feh!!! Booms, big guns, chases, and CGI effects weren't what
they expected, eh? Not only do they not keep their contracts,
they are too stupid to understand action outside of a wrasslin
ring.
BUT I'M NOT BITTER. I'M JUST CALLING THE THENTA MEKUR...
Ro, channeling the spirit of Na'toth.
Jay Davis
> This episode was excellent!
>
> Unlike previously aired episodes, i felt that this one worked on all
> levels. From the opening teasing until the ending the credits, it was
> even and paced.
>
> I have renewed interest in the next four eps.
> If the other four pre-TNT interference eps are of this quality, I will
> be disappointed that the show does not continue.
>
> One other note, I do like the old/new black unis, altho the grays
> would've been fine (bearable, and then later growing on me) with me if I
> had never seen the black ones. This is especially true if the story
> quality is always like this ep, where I'm enjoying the writing and thus
> too busy to gripe about the unis.
Yup, this one was very good. The only thing that was a little hokey
was the "cycle" chase scene. I don't think they had the budget to
make the effects really work for this kind of a scene.
I also agree, the dark uniforms and revised set are better, although
the originals aren't bad.
Jay Davis
Erick Rossovich
Jms at B5 wrote:
> >I have renewed interest in the next four eps.
> >If the other four pre-TNT interference eps are of this quality, I will
> >be disappointed that the show does not continue.
> >
>
> They're either all at this level or better (in my admittedly biased opinion).
>
> jms
>
Then it may be bittersweet.
Saving the best for last....
Already, I am glad that I stuck around for the "pre-interference" episodes
What I don't understand is that there was plenty of action in this ep...
I guess it was the lack of blatant sex that put TNT off.
Steve Rice
colored lights on faces throughout), great humor, fairly risky
behavior on the part of the captain. One thing creeped me out:
the shot of the Thunderbolt pilot. Have to remember they're
good guys.
Steve
Jms at B5 wrote:
> >I have renewed interest in the next four eps.
> >If the other four pre-TNT interference eps are of this quality, I will
> >be disappointed that the show does not continue.
> >
>
> They're either all at this level or better (in my admittedly biased opinion).
>
> jms
>
Jms at B5
>effect "we wanted an adventure series, and this wasn't what we
>expected" ?
>
Yup. They said the first episodes were "too intellectual" and didn't have any
action or humor.
But sooner or later these episodes have to air, and that kinda takes care of
that. As the remainder of these first 5 will show.
Aside from the fact that the action they wanted was fist-fights, they were
totally unable to visualize the EFX sequences. We put storyboard sequences
into the edited master so they'd have an idea, but they kept saying there's no
action...they looked at Racing and the one next week and said "no
action"...now, you look at those two (hell, those five) eps and tell me if
there's no action.
Best of all...after they stopped production after these first 5 were shot,
there were many demands made that, it was clear, had to be given or we would
not be allowed back into production. One of the notes that came...and I'm
quoting this verbatim...had to do with Dureena, who if you look here in these
episodes has a more exotic look, there's a bit more prosthetic work, and so
on.
TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
her *attitude?*"
Hence her makeup was softened, the forehead prosthetic minimized almost to
invisibility, and the contact lenses minimized.
(As an aside...they *almost* didn't let us complete these five episodes. I
think they wanted to let nothing come out to contradict their cover story. The
only reason they got finished was that WB said that if they *didn't* let 'em
get finished, TNT would bear the brunt of the cost, and that was that.)
Alex Thorpe
(Jms at B5) wrote:
>TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
>different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
>her *attitude?*"
<Slapping forehead> Aliens look alien because they don't come from a
planet exactly like Earth with the same history. Be happy she's a biped!
;-)
--
-Alex
"Common Sense Ain't"
Aaron P. Brezenski
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
>different than humans?
[pause]
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
Aaron Brezenski
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get me."
Card-Carrying Member of the Illuminati
Jms at B5
>opinion).
>>
>> jms
>>
>
>Saving the best for last...
You ever see "The Commitments?"
It's about this Irish rock group that gets together, and they're good, I mean,
they're *good*. But many factors begin to pull them apart, and eventually the
band falls apart.
One of them, who's been around a long time, goes to the guy who put it all
together, and can't believe what's happened, what they could've been...and he
says, "You gotta look at it this way. If you'd stayed together, you would've
been just one more successful band. Now...now it's myth."
Pelzo63
j...@tri-k.com wrote:
>Yup, this one was very good. The only thing that was a little hokey
>was the "cycle" chase scene. I don't think they had the budget to
>make the effects really work for this kind of a scene.
i've read several "the chase scene looked fake" posts, and maybe it's because i
haven't seen SW:Ep1 yet(you can breathe again anytime now ;-), but it didn't
look bad at all to me. this post isn't directed at any one person, so could
ANYONE tell me specifics of what you thought was bad about the scene in
question? the only thing for me in this scene that didn't "click" was the
speed seemed to be too slow, and the bike occasionally appeared to be going the
"wrong way" after a turn. but those are all in the animation, not in the CGI
themselves. so, just wondering, is it the animation, or the CGI that everyone
has a problem with?
this is an honest inquiry, not a flame/troll/whatever :-)
--Chris AOL/AIM--Pelzo63
http://members.aol.com/pelzo63/welcome.html
i'm disappointed that dicaprio wasn't shown floating face down, bodies FLOAT!
<g>
MattS1
>the shot of the Thunderbolt pilot. Have to remember they're
>good guys.
Yeah, that black faceplate did remind me of the Black Omega pilot who bombed
the domes on Mars back in B5 S3
"Give my regards to oblivion." -Dr. Smith, Lost in Space: The Movie
"Um, if you guys are gonna shoot each other why don't you let Otis and I get
out of the way?" -Quinn Mallory, Genesis(Sliders Season 4 premiere)
Michael J. Hennebry
Alex Thorpe <ath...@i1.net> wrote:
><Slapping forehead> Aliens look alien because they don't come from a
>planet exactly like Earth with the same history. Be happy she's a biped!
>;-)
>
As the Eldar knows, bipedalism is not the norm.
--
Mike henn...@plains.NoDak.edu
ValleyCon 24: http://www.netcenter.net/~jnelson/vc/
To artist letter: http://ndsun.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu/www/hennebry/to.artist.html
"I'm just an old country doctor." -- Bones
Brian Watson
>
> >TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
> >her *attitude?*"
*pause*
*pause*
*pause*
*pause*
Oh.
Lord.
Someone please sterilize whichever TNT exec wrote that. He, she or it should not
breed and contribute DNA to the human race any further.
roanna
>
> >Then it may be bittersweet.
> >Saving the best for last...
>
WTH, go out with a bang, not a whimper.
>
> You ever see "The Commitments?"
>
> It's about this Irish rock group that gets together, and they're good, I mean,
> they're *good*. But many factors begin to pull them apart, and eventually the
> band falls apart.
>
I love this movie. Great music, and it reminds me of parts of my misspent
not-THAT-distant- thank-you youth.
>
> One of them, who's been around a long time, goes to the guy who put it all
> together, and can't believe what's happened, what they could've been...and he
> says, "You gotta look at it this way. If you'd stayed together, you would've
> been just one more successful band. Now...now it's myth."
I can't help but want to know how the rest of the story comes out, but I think
this is a myth that will live for a very long time, indeed.
roanna
Deborah Auslander
> Yup. They said the first episodes were "too intellectual" and didn't have any
> action or humor.
>
> But sooner or later these episodes have to air, and that kinda takes care of
> that. As the remainder of these first 5 will show.
>
> Aside from the fact that the action they wanted was fist-fights, they were
> totally unable to visualize the EFX sequences. We put storyboard sequences
> into the edited master so they'd have an idea, but they kept saying there's no
> action...they looked at Racing and the one next week and said "no
> action"...now, you look at those two (hell, those five) eps and tell me if
> there's no action.
Here in Canada we just got the episode where they find
the abandoned planet that in fact traps people into becoming
experiments. Damn fine!
>From reading JMS's post, it seems that the "original 5"
(the ones without network interference) have NOT been shown
yet here? I was moderately disappointed with the first few
episodes until the one that Peter David wrote (Captain Lockley
appears; those human fanatics try to blow everything up; the
leader hears voices in his head.... can't remember any titles!)
Well, I thought this episode was quite different... more complex,
a nice tie to Babylon5... intelligent humour. I thought it
might
be exclusive to Peter David's writing, but then the
subsequent
episodes (2 efeminate aliens try to kill Gideon; body snatchers
take over some of Excalibur's crew; the aformentioned one about
the seemingly abandoned planet) ALSO had a similar je ne
sais quois!
These were written by JMS, so I immediately thought that THESE
ones might be some of the non-dumbed down episodes?
JMS continues to write:
> TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
> different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
> her *attitude?*"
>
> Hence her makeup was softened, the forehead prosthetic minimized almost to
> invisibility, and the contact lenses minimized.
Well, since Dureena so far has looked 99% human, I take it
we in
Canada haven't in fact seen "the first 5" yet.
f-erenc
zero...@goodmedia.com
Deborah Auslander
> different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
> her *attitude?*"
>
> Hence her makeup was softened, the forehead prosthetic minimized almost to
> invisibility, and the contact lenses minimized.
Yeah, I think I would have like Kosh a lot better if
he was played by Steve Guttenberg with no makeup whatsoever
and just his normal voice. Jeeez, why'd you have to make
him look all different and everything? And his dialogue....
why couldn't you have him say stuff like "Hey guys, how's
it going" or "Nice dress, Talia" or even show him sitting
down having a beer with everybody.
And what's with all that mind reading? It's so cliche
to have telepaths with the ability to read minds. Why
couldn't they have X-ray vision, or maybe the ability
to fly?
f-erenc
Erick Rossovich
roanna wrote:
<snip>
> I can't help but want to know how the rest of the story comes out, but I think
> this is a myth that will live for a very long time, indeed.
This sounds much like how we had to approach Babylon 5. We were able to see the
finish and the myth is just as big if not bigger..... but your point is well
understood and if the next four have the same flavor as Racing... sigh...
However much we get to see of Crusade, its icing on the cake....
I'll sit back and savor the last four episodes and maybe then I'll make a run
through Babylon 5 and toast what jms has given us....
'Course, I would still love to have my cake (b5) and eat it too (Crusade)
sprock...@earthlink.net
> Best of all...after they stopped production after these first 5 were shot,
> there were many demands made that, it was clear, had to be given or we would
> not be allowed back into production. One of the notes that came...and I'm
> quoting this verbatim...had to do with Dureena, who if you look here in these
> episodes has a more exotic look, there's a bit more prosthetic work, and so
> on.
>
> TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
> different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
> her *attitude?*"
>
> Hence her makeup was softened, the forehead prosthetic minimized almost to
> invisibility, and the contact lenses minimized.
Hey, at least they didn't airbrush Dureena's ears in the ad copy! <BIG grin>
I'd say it's safe to say that TNT understands what it has in B5/Crusade about
as poorly as NBC understood what it had in Star Trek.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So many ideas that sound crazy are indeed crazy, and if a busy man paid
equal attention to all of them he would never get anything done. The test
of a truly first-rate mind is its readiness to correct mistakes and even to
change course completely--when the facts merit it." --- Arthur C. Clarke
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Powers
: >One thing creeped me out:
: >the shot of the Thunderbolt pilot. Have to remember they're
: >good guys.
:
: Yeah, that black faceplate did remind me of the Black Omega pilot who bombed
: the domes on Mars back in B5 S3
Maybe it was.
--
Craig Powers NU ChE class of '98
cpo...@lynx.dac.neu.edu http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/c/cpowers
eni...@hal-pc.org http://www.hal-pc.org/~enigma
"Good..bad....I'm the guy with the gun." -- "Ash" in *Army of Darkness*
Chibi-Light
>spoiler space
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>i've read several "the chase scene looked fake" posts, and maybe it's because i
>haven't seen SW:Ep1 yet(you can breathe again anytime now ;-), but it didn't
>look bad at all to me. this post isn't directed at any one person, so could
>ANYONE tell me specifics of what you thought was bad about the scene in
>question? the only thing for me in this scene that didn't "click" was the
>speed seemed to be too slow, and the bike occasionally appeared to be going the
>"wrong way" after a turn. but those are all in the animation, not in the CGI
>themselves. so, just wondering, is it the animation, or the CGI that everyone
>has a problem with?
>
>this is an honest inquiry, not a flame/troll/whatever :-)
>
In not so technical terms, I found the film of Gideon didn't quite
match up with the CGI background. In some parts the background looked
flat so Gideon's three dimensional form stood out...too much. But in
other parts it didn't look flat. And yes, I have seen SWep1, it was
all computer graphics and no soul.
CL
allenw
> The action was tight, the visuals were great (I loved the
> colored lights on faces throughout), great humor, fairly risky
> the shot of the Thunderbolt pilot. Have to remember they're
> good guys.
To be honest, that black-helmeted Thunderbolt pilot shot, and the
subsequent missle-firing shot, looked exactly like the "Clarke's forces
bomb Mars" shot from mid-B5.
JMS: were they the same?
Allen
Alyson L. Abramowitz
Minor Spoilers. If you care, don't go here.
Deborah Auslander wrote:
>
> Jms at B5 wrote:
> Here in Canada we just got the episode where they find
> the abandoned planet that in fact traps people into becoming
> experiments. Damn fine!
>From what my friend in Ottawa tells me the Canadian episodes are only a
couple of days behind. So
USA and Canada are on the same episode within a week.
I've seen far more adventure (and just plain better storytelling) in the
(original) first two episodes then the ones that we saw first. I wonder
if the problem was that a lot of the action took place in special
effects rather than fist fights (ala original ST). Certainly that would
be the case with the episode we just saw here in the States. Although we
didn't see anyone killed, we did see Dureena's little walk on air and a
mean retrobution by Galen. Both of those would not be visible until the
special effects came in (later).
> JMS continues to write:
> > TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
> > different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
> > her *attitude?*"
> >
> > Hence her makeup was softened, the forehead prosthetic minimized almost to
> > invisibility, and the contact lenses minimized.
>
> Well, since Dureena so far has looked 99% human, I take it
> we in
> Canada haven't in fact seen "the first 5" yet.
>
I've seen two of the first five and I keep waiting for Dureena to
transform into something more alien.
She looks pretty human to me. It's only her clothes which give her
somewhat of an alien appearance. I
gather she has upper face work but with her bangs it is really hard to
tell (maybe I'll put the videotape
on pause and check it out). Given the popularity of some of Buffy and
the ilk, you'd think a network
would love her.
Pelzo63
>On 9 Aug 1999 19:42:40 -0600, pel...@aol.com (Pelzo63) wrote:
>>spoiler space
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>>so could
>>ANYONE tell me specifics of what you thought was bad about the scene >>in
>>question? the only thing for me in this scene that didn't "click" was >>the
>>speed seemed to be too slow, and the bike occasionally appeared to be >>going
the
>>"wrong way" after a turn. but those are all in the animation, not in the
>>CGI
>>themselves. so, just wondering, is it the animation, or the CGI that
>>everyone
>>has a problem with?
>
>>this is an honest inquiry, not a flame/troll/whatever :-)
>
>In not so technical terms, I found the film of Gideon didn't quite
>match up with the CGI background. In some parts the background looked
>flat so Gideon's three dimensional form stood out...too much. But in
>other parts it didn't look flat. And yes, I have seen SWep1, it was
>all computer graphics and no soul.
thanks, this was pretty much the kind of answer i was looking for. :-) although
i disagree about "real gideon" sticking out against the CGi "too much"(i tend
not to notice those things when i'm busy with a decent storyline), i can see
how you would find it a little off.
still wondering if there's anyone else's thoughts on what didn't work bout this
scene. :-)
--Chris AOL/AIM--pelzo63
http://members.aol.com/pelzo63/welcome.html
wait...did i just politely disagree with someone..and then say "but i could see
your point"?! but..this is usenet! that's not legal! <g>
gemi...@my-deja.com
> >opinion).
> >>
> >> jms
> >>
> >
> >Saving the best for last...
>
>
> It's about this Irish rock group that gets together, and they're
good, I mean,
> they're *good*. But many factors begin to pull them apart, and
eventually the
> band falls apart.
>
> One of them, who's been around a long time, goes to the guy who put
it all
> together, and can't believe what's happened, what they could've
been...and he
> says, "You gotta look at it this way. If you'd stayed together, you
would've
> been just one more successful band. Now...now it's myth."
>
Ah, but there are many myths or legends that got that way by playing
out the full hand in a larger than life way. And wouldn't it have been
better to hear that music a bit longer. (That jack-ass with the
ponytail could belt out a tune.)
(I think many would say B5 is legendary.)
Off topic, sort of, there's a rumor or legend about The Commitments.
Supposedly, the band hired to back up at auditions ended up making all
comers look so bad, they got the part instead.
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> B5 Official Fan Club at:
> http://www.thestation.com
>
>
--
Gemini, the geeky runner
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Tim Keene
>By the time I was through with this episode, I had questioned
>the lineage and early childhood education of TNT executives and
>had wondered just how many times the handbook said that the
>network head had to have been dropped on his cerebellum to
>qualify for the position.
>
>Don't I recall, somewhere in TNT's spin control words to the
>effect "we wanted an adventure series, and this wasn't what we
>expected" ?
>
>
>Feh!!! Booms, big guns, chases, and CGI effects weren't what
>they expected, eh? Not only do they not keep their contracts,
>they are too stupid to understand action outside of a wrasslin
>ring.
And since their wrestling organization is failing in the ratings
compared to the WWF, they can't even get their wrestling action
right..
###################
The Dharkwalker
Any scientific breakthrough involving Scots and sheep is bound to have dire consequences.
Tim Keene
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>TNT note: "Why do we have to go for the cliche that aliens always look
>different than humans? Why can't she look just like a human but be alien by
>her *attitude?*"
Okay, who wants the job of telling Scott Adams his "manager" character
is alive and well and working for TNT?
Jay Davis
> spoiler space
>
> j...@tri-k.com wrote:
> >Yup, this one was very good. The only thing that was a little hokey
> >was the "cycle" chase scene. I don't think they had the budget to
> >make the effects really work for this kind of a scene.
>
> i've read several "the chase scene looked fake" posts, and maybe it's because i
> haven't seen SW:Ep1 yet(you can breathe again anytime now ;-), but it didn't
> look bad at all to me. this post isn't directed at any one person, so could
> ANYONE tell me specifics of what you thought was bad about the scene in
> question? the only thing for me in this scene that didn't "click" was the
> speed seemed to be too slow, and the bike occasionally appeared to be going the
> "wrong way" after a turn. but those are all in the animation, not in the CGI
> themselves. so, just wondering, is it the animation, or the CGI that everyone
> has a problem with?
>
> this is an honest inquiry, not a flame/troll/whatever :-)
>
I think it was the animation. The movement of the "cycle" seemed very
fake.
Jay Davis
Brian Watson
> On 8 Aug 1999 20:02:45 -0600, in article
> <athorpe-0808...@pm3-4stl173.xtraport.net>
> ath...@i1.net (Alex Thorpe) wrote:
>
> ><Slapping forehead> Aliens look alien because they don't come from a
> >planet exactly like Earth with the same history. Be happy she's a biped!
> >;-)
>
> And a mammal! Hubbahubba!
Oh god, I'm glad she's a mammal. *lecherous grin*
Lawrence King
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On 12 Aug 1999, Deborah Auslander <zero...@goodmedia.com> wrote:
>> Well, since Dureena so far has looked 99% human, I take it we
>> in Canada haven't in fact seen "the first 5" yet.
You're seeing them in the same order as us. The first five written,
filmed, and produced are the last five to be shown.
(They're also the ones with the dorky costumes....)
Early in the series, JMS made a bunch of comments about which ones he
liked, didn't like, etc. I made a tally of his comments and put them
down as "grades" next to each of the titles.
(The letters A-B-C-D were invented by me, he just made comparisons.)
JMS air air filming
grade? date order order title
D 99/06/09 1 108 War Zone
B 99/06/16 2 107 The Long Road
C 99/06/23 3 106 The Well of Forever \
B 99/06/30 4 109 The Path of Sorrows > mini-arc ?
C 99/07/07 5 110 Patterns of the Soul /
C 99/07/14 6 111 Ruling from the Tomb
C 99/07/21 7 112 The Rules of the Game
B 99/07/28 8 113 Appearances & other Deceits (old uniforms)
C 99/08/04 9 103 Racing the Night
A 99/08/11 10 102 Xxxxxx
B 99/08/18 11 101 Xxxxxx
A 99/08/25 12 104 Xxxxxx
A 99/09/01 13 105 Xxxxxx \ main
never 14 --- --- (new uniforms) > arc
never 15 --- --- (w/ Bester) / begins
I deleted the titles after "Racing" so as to not need new spoiler
warnings at the top....
The interesting thing is that I've agreed with "his" grading, except
that I wouldn't put the blasted dragon episode so hight. But the last
three (113, 103, 102) were all really good. And we haven't had three
good episodes in a row since the "Fall of Centauri Prime" era......
IMHO.
| Larry King \\|// |
| univ of washington (@ @) |
|--------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----|
| Babylon 5 History Page |
| http://www.chronology.org/b-five/ |
| B5 Chronology. Prophecies. Astronomy. Earth's Colonies. |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Brinich
Tim Keene wrote:
> Okay, who wants the job of telling Scott Adams his "manager" character
> is alive and well and working for TNT?
I'm sure he already knows -- remember his TV Guide article describing
B5 as the best show on television and his cameo appearance (as the guy
trying to hire Garibaldi to find his dog and cat)?
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@Radix.Net> If the government wants us
http://www.Radix.Net/~steveb to respect the law
89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E it should set a better example
John W. Kennedy
> And since their wrestling organization is failing in the ratings
> compared to the WWF, they can't even get their wrestling action
> right..
Actually, I believe pro-wrestling fans hold Turner's version in utter
contempt. For whatever that's worth. (Why do I feel as though I need
to scrape my shoe?)
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
John W. Kennedy
> Okay, who wants the job of telling Scott Adams his "manager" character
> is alive and well and working for TNT?
I already did, months ago.