Racing the Night (Spoilers included, and some for The Path of Sorrows)
LessXTreme
Well, I just finished watching Racing the Night, and I liked it quite a
bit...it would've worked fine as a first episode, I think, except for a few
bits. I was glad to finally see a good space battle in this show. =) Not that
that's all I'm watching for, of course, but it's good eye candy every so often.
=) Anyway, the story was well done and well paced, but I kept thinking of it as
the first episode. As it is, there are a few conflicts in its current
placing-Gideon describing Max as having been chosen by IPX to give to them,
Gideon having to make it clear that he knows what he's doing with the main
guns, etc, etc. That stuff was easy enough to overlook, since there was nothing
that could be done about it. Two things do actually work better with this
placing, I think. One: Galen and Dureena. Their relationship has been explored
somewhat in the previous episodes, and has been developed. Here, it's simply
Dureena popping up and saying "Teach me! Teach me!" At this point, it seems a
little better to accept. They've reached a level of trust, one where Galen is
seriously considering teaching her. I'm glad that had time to develop before I
saw it. Two: the Apocalypse Box. If I'd seen this as it is in the first
episode, I would've simply looked at it and said, "What? Huh? Wtf?" In the
current placing, we got to know its enigmatic name, see Gideon receiving it,
but didn't know what it did. Now we see what it is and what he's using it for.
The idea that the box lies sometimes, which we were told back in The Path of
Sorrows, also adds flavor to that scene. It still weirds me out, though. Why
did Gideon ever accept it as collateral? Never accept anything from anyone that
has the words death, destruction, doom, or apocalypse in its name, especially
when the owner laughs joyfully when he gets rid of it. Oh well...at least I
know who to play poker with when I want to bet my Ring of Doom....=)
One thing keeps bugging me, though-what's with the Shadows? Do they just like
screwing with people? They destroyed the Cerberus (and NOT the Technomage
fleet, surprisingly enough), destroyed the...Xandarians?' colony ship, and here
didn't force a people to accept a base, but instead just poisoned them all.
Only here do I like their involvement with this series (though I would have
disliked this highly suspicious situation being in the first episode). What
they did points out some very interesting points. First, a question-what was
different about that world? The Shadows forced the Narn to accept a base, why
didn't they force these people? As for the second...good news. Somewhere, there
is definitely a cure. Otherwise, the Shadows wouldn't be using nuclear missile
planetkillers now, but would still be using their plague. Good to know, ain't
it?
Anyway, a very good episode. I hope the rest of the pre-interference episodes
are as good...::crossing fingers::..=)
Geoduck
>Spoilers...don't look if ya don't wanna....
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(snip)
>One thing keeps bugging me, though-what's with the Shadows? Do they just like
>screwing with people? They destroyed the Cerberus (and NOT the Technomage
>fleet, surprisingly enough),
(snip)
Since we have never seen a ship like the one that destroyed the
Cerberus, we don't know for a 100% certain fact that it was a Shadow
ship. If the series had gone on, I imagine we would have learned what
was really going on in that scene.
--
Geoduck
geo...@usa.net
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Jms at B5
>placing-Gideon describing Max as having been chosen by IPX to give to them,
Actually, my thought there was that that's what Gideon would *always* tell him,
because the last thing in the world he'd ever do is tell Max that he WANTED him
on board. He'd be totally insufferable.
Our captain lies from time to time. Same as the box.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
MattS1
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>Two: the Apocalypse Box. If I'd seen this as it is in the first
>episode, I would've simply looked at it and said, "What? Huh? Wtf?" In the
>current placing, we got to know its enigmatic name, see Gideon receiving it,
>but didn't know what it did. Now we see what it is and what he's using it
>for.
Speaking of the Apocolypse Box, did anybody catch what it said when Gideon
opened it up? I just know it said something but I couldn't quite understand
what it said.
>As for the second...good news. Somewhere, there
>is definitely a cure. Otherwise, the Shadows wouldn't be using nuclear
>missile
>planetkillers now, but would still be using their plague. Good to know, ain't
>it?
Not neccessarily. Maybe they use the Death Cloud because it's faster. The Drakh
had the plague all along but they only used it AFTER the Death Cloud got blown
to itty bitty pieces. The Plague takes a certain amount of time to work,
depending on the race (Humans and the cryo-civilization take 5 years while
Dureena's people die in 1) while the Death Cloud is instant gratification and
you get to see a nice big boom to boot.
"Give my regards to oblivion." -Dr. Smith, Lost in Space: The Movie
"Um, if you guys are gonna shoot each other why don't you let Otis and I get
out of the way?" -Quinn Mallory, Genesis(Sliders Season 4 premiere)
Jms at B5
>Cerberus, we don't know for a 100% certain fact that it was a Shadow
>ship. If the series had gone on, I imagine we would have learned what
>was really going on in that scene.
It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
filmed but both were written.
Steve Brinich
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> Not neccessarily. Maybe they use the Death Cloud because it's faster.
> The Drakh had the plague all along but they only used it AFTER the
> Death Cloud got blown to itty bitty pieces. The Plague takes a
> certain amount of time to work, depending on the race (Humans and
> the cryo-civilization take 5 years while Dureena's people die in 1)
> while the Death Cloud is instant gratification and you get to see
> a nice big boom to boot.
This implies that the theory mentioned at the end of "A Call To Arms"
(that the plague would take five years because the Drakh didn't know how
to pre-tailor it to Earth biology or didn't have time to do so) is false
-- the Shadows used it themselves against this planet and it still took
five years. Evidently it's just the nature of this weapon to work
slowly, the Shadows found this acceptable for some targets (and used the
Death Cloud when they needed something faster).
Of course, having some of the characters come up with the wrong
conclusion (unless they should know better, which isn't the case here)
isn't a continuity error.
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@Radix.Net> If the government wants us
http://www.Radix.Net/~steveb to respect the law
89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E it should set a better example
Daniel W. Johnson
LessXTreme <lessx...@aol.com> wrote:
> Somewhere, there
> is definitely a cure. Otherwise, the Shadows wouldn't be using nuclear missile
> planetkillers now, but would still be using their plague. Good to know, ain't
> it?
The Shadows were using that on Vorlon-aligned worlds. It could just
mean that the Shadows thought the Vorlons had a cure (and would use it
if needed).
--
Daniel W. Johnson
pano...@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Gordon & Paige Besse-Rankin
Jms at B5 wrote in message <19990808184015...@ng-fg1.aol.com>...
OK, now that is just mean to tantalize us and torment us like that.
Somebody call the Narn Bat Squad.
And when they are done with JMS for making us crazy thinking about the
episodes we will never see, turn them on TNT and Sci Fi and everyone else
who doesn't think this kind of quality television is worth putting on the
air. I had a fascinating discussion with my youth group last night about
violence in the media and its effects on kids. The outcome of the
discussion seemed to be that we as viewers need to demand better television
and watch as critical viewers instead of couch potatoes. (Thank you, JMS,
for taking the time to educate us about how television is made. I drew on a
lot of that last night in our discussion.) But this little adventure of
trying to get Crusade picked up has left me very discouraged about whether
it is really possible to get better quality programming from the networks.
The payoff for networks and advertisers seems to be too high for offering up
stupidity.
Paige
Michael J. Hennebry
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
So who owns and can sell the unfilmed episodes?
--
Mike henn...@plains.NoDak.edu
ValleyCon 24: http://www.netcenter.net/~jnelson/vc/
To artist letter: http://ndsun.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu/www/hennebry/to.artist.html
"I'm just an old country doctor." -- Bones
BRETNTRACI
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
Any chance the fan club will sell the scripts of the unfilmed episodes *if* the
show is not picked-up by someone?
in_vale...@hotmail.com
While they'd be an interesting curio, I'd rather the stories got out to
more readers by having them combined and adapted into a novel through
Del Rey.
scott tilson.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jody
>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
>
> jms
And he's not going to tell us.
JMS is so evil.
:^)
BRETNTRACI
>more readers by having them combined and adapted into a novel through
>Del Rey.
Your right that is a better idea.
brett
Jason D. McClary
References: <19990805011429...@ng-fa1.aol.com>
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410)
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In article <19990805011429...@ng-fa1.aol.com> ,
lessx...@aol.com (LessXTreme) wrote:
> Two: the Apocalypse Box. If I'd seen this as it is in the first
> episode, I would've simply looked at it and said, "What? Huh? Wtf?"
I disagree... I like to say huh? WtF? Every now and then. I mean look at
Pulp Fiction. Loved it! If it had been in chronological order it would not
have had the same impact. Anyway it would have been nice to see this first
then get a little insight later.
I hope that if this series is ever picked up jms will be allowed free reign.
Hopefully his other projects will help him in that area.
*********************************************************
* Jason McClary t...@probe.net http://www.probe.net/~tnj *
*********************************************************
* "Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. *
* You are finite, Zathras is finite, this... *
* is wrong tool." - Zathras *
* Babylon 5 *
*********************************************************
Jason D. McClary
(Jms at B5) wrote:
> It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
> further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
> filmed but both were written.
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> B5 Official Fan Club at:
> http://www.thestation.com
AHH!! Tease me like that... I'm dying here! Somebody find some money and
finish the show! :)
Sorry, I'm calm now....
Must go and write some letters now
ImRastro
>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
>
> jms
Sigh. Posts like this make me soooooo sad. Not that Joe should stop making
them......but gee wiz.
To quote myself from the unmod group.....I am totally pissed since seeing
Racing. (Can you say that on mod?) Everyone should write letters to TNT and
Sci Fi just out of spite.
Patriarch
in_vale...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <19990809152521...@ng-cl1.aol.com>,
> bretn...@aol.com (BRETNTRACI) wrote:
> > >It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and
> > >dealt with further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger,
> > >neither of which were filmed but both were written.
> >
> > Any chance the fan club will sell the scripts of the unfilmed
> > episodes *if* the show is not picked-up by someone?
>
> While they'd be an interesting curio, I'd rather the stories got out to
> more readers by having them combined and adapted into a novel through
> Del Rey.
>
> scott tilson.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
So would I but jms said that just ain't gonna happen. But selling the
scripts...now that I'm hoping for if things go south.
Craig Powers
: To quote myself from the unmod group.....I am totally pissed since seeing
: Racing. (Can you say that on mod?) Everyone should write letters to TNT and
: Sci Fi just out of spite.
I recall the charter saying specific things about general content
guidelines, but I don't recall it saying anything about the language
that could be used. Language could, I suppose, in certain circumstances,
bring a post across the line into flame territory, but that's hardly
applicable here.
Of course, this is an unofficial opinion. I'm sure if it's wrong (or
maybe if it's not) an official opinion will also be expressed.
--
Craig Powers NU ChE class of '98
cpo...@lynx.dac.neu.edu http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/c/cpowers
eni...@hal-pc.org http://www.hal-pc.org/~enigma
"Good..bad....I'm the guy with the gun." -- "Ash" in *Army of Darkness*
sha...@eskimo.com
>>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
>>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>>filmed but both were written.
>
>Any chance the fan club will sell the scripts of the unfilmed episodes *if* the
>show is not picked-up by someone?
They are already selling the shows "bible" which I suspect is where he
got that information from. Since they ran out of the limited edition
ones in the few hours it took me to read the posting here about it I
didn't bother buying a regular one yet. I was reading this area every
day then so I know it wasn't my delay that lost me getting one.
Mark D. McKean
>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
And if the series is dead and buried after the (currently) last episode
airs, will those unfilmed scripts be released or published?
--
Mark D. McKean - The Quantum Panda - qpa...@iwaynet.net
Highlander-Christians <>< Christian-Leapers <>< Babylon 5-Christians
Serious comments and questions will be handled appropriately.
Flames will be laughed at and routed to /dev/null.
Adam Bailey
>>Cerberus, we don't know for a 100% certain fact that it was a Shadow
>>ship. If the series had gone on, I imagine we would have learned what
>>was really going on in that scene.
>
>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
>filmed but both were written.
If you're not able to work out a deal to continue those series, is there any
chance of those written scripts being published?
--
Adam Bailey | Chicago, Illinois
ad...@lull.org | Finger/Web for PGP
ada...@aol.com | http://www.lull.org/adam/
Patriarch
Craig Powers wrote:
Hmmm.. I wonder. I think, I'll test a theory here. If offensive language offends
you, I ask you not to read on. If this goes through, I'll know....
you're reading on.......... :-)
FUCK!!!!!!!
[ NOTE: Language has never been something we moderate for. Usenet is
*NOT* for kids, so don't expect us to 'dumb down' this
newsgroup for them - JAD ]
sha...@eskimo.com
>Spoiler space.....
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>in_vale...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> In article <19990809152521...@ng-cl1.aol.com>,
>> bretn...@aol.com (BRETNTRACI) wrote:
>> > >It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and
>> > >dealt with further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger,
>> > >neither of which were filmed but both were written.
>> >
>> > Any chance the fan club will sell the scripts of the unfilmed
>> > episodes *if* the show is not picked-up by someone?
>>
>> While they'd be an interesting curio, I'd rather the stories got out to
>> more readers by having them combined and adapted into a novel through
>> Del Rey.
>>
>> scott tilson.
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
>So would I but jms said that just ain't gonna happen. But selling the
>scripts...now that I'm hoping for if things go south.
>
They're already selling the shows "Bible" that they give to writers
for the new show.
Jay Denebeim
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>Our captain lies from time to time. Same as the box.
Rule 1 of the B5 universe: Nothing is as it seems.
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.aurora.co.us *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.aurora.co.us *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.aurora.co.us *
Patriarch
sha...@eskimo.com wrote:
Not exactly. There's no way that a writer would be able to *write* for the
show given what little is revealed in the Crusade Writer's Bible. There is
virtually *nothing* in the CWB that could be considered real insider
information. Yes, there's a few insights into episodes that have not been
aired, but no real *revelations*.
Anyway, basically by the wording on this, I get the impression that this was
originally meant to pitch the series to the network, and any insider
information has been editted out. It's really hard to explain, but those who
have the bible, you know what I mean. You get the impression that you hold a
novel in your hand, with a table of contents, a couple chapters, and
everything else is tore out.
I just don't think this is the same complete bible that is(was?) on the desk
of Fiona Avery and jms.
Mena Ryan
>
> > It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
> > further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
> > filmed but both were written.
> >
> >
> > (jms...@aol.com)
> > B5 Official Fan Club at:
> > http://www.thestation.com
>
> AHH!! Tease me like that... I'm dying here! Somebody find some money and
> finish the show! :)
>
> Sorry, I'm calm now....
>
> Must go and write some letters now
I'm about the same way by it's because I wanna find out what is in that
spooky box, gosh durn it! ;)
Mena
Brian Watson
> sha...@eskimo.com wrote:
>
> > They're already selling the shows "Bible" that they give to writers
> > for the new show.
>
> Not exactly. There's no way that a writer would be able to *write* for the
> show given what little is revealed in the Crusade Writer's Bible. There is
> virtually *nothing* in the CWB that could be considered real insider
> information. Yes, there's a few insights into episodes that have not been
> aired, but no real *revelations*.
>
> Anyway, basically by the wording on this, I get the impression that this was
> originally meant to pitch the series to the network, and any insider
> information has been editted out. It's really hard to explain, but those who
> have the bible, you know what I mean. You get the impression that you hold a
> novel in your hand, with a table of contents, a couple chapters, and
> everything else is tore out.
>
> I just don't think this is the same complete bible that is(was?) on the desk
> of Fiona Avery and jms.
After looking through it, I too had the distinct impression that parts were
removed from it for sale.
Patriarch
Spoiler space....
s>>It was discovered in episode 14, "To the Ends of the Earth," and dealt with
> >>further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
> >>filmed but both were written.
>
>
> They are already selling the shows "bible" which I suspect is where he
> got that information from. Since they ran out of the limited edition
> ones in the few hours it took me to read the posting here about it I
> didn't bother buying a regular one yet. I was reading this area every
> day then so I know it wasn't my delay that lost me getting one.
Uhhh...no. That post was from JMS, and he knows because he wrote it. The bible,
actually contains extremely minimal information, nothing going past the first
season, and very little talking about episodes that weren't filmed. (In fact, when
something is said, it is usually just hinted at. I.e, "But another tale has it that
Galen is actually....") There is no mention detailing those two episodes,
especially the Apocolypse Box and the ship that attacked the Cerberus.(In reality
you can learn ALOT more from watching the Path of Sorrows than reading the entire
bible.
I assume that the bible that is being sold now is actually just a scaled-down
version of what jms originally wrote for the series. There's no overall arc,
there's practically no secrets revealed that aren't already known, and there's an
index of terms in the back most of which are completely unknown and unexplained.
(Not that the bible isn't worth the twenty bucks, mind you.)
So many people said, when they started selling off the bible "Oh God! It's all over
if they're selling off the bible! They're cutting their losses. No chance they'll
continue the show now." When in all likelihood, if the series got picked up, the
"secrets revealed" in the bible would pose no problem to the general progress of the
show.
-Patriarch
Dianne Heins
> "Jason D. McClary" wrote:
> >
> > In article <19990808184015...@ng-fg1.aol.com> , jms...@aol.com
> > (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >
> > > further in "End of the Road," the season cliffhanger, neither of which were
> > > filmed but both were written.
> > >
> > >
> > > (jms...@aol.com)
> > > B5 Official Fan Club at:
> > > http://www.thestation.com
> >
> > AHH!! Tease me like that... I'm dying here! Somebody find some money and
> > finish the show! :)
> >
> > Sorry, I'm calm now....
> >
> > Must go and write some letters now
>
> I'm about the same way by it's because I wanna find out what is in that
> spooky box, gosh durn it! ;)
>
Gideon's soul :)
Dianne
Wes Struebing
>Mena Ryan wrote...
>> "Jason D. McClary" wrote:
>> >
<snip>
>> > Must go and write some letters now
>>
>> I'm about the same way by it's because I wanna find out what is in that
>> spooky box, gosh durn it! ;)
>>
>
>Gideon's soul :)
>
Don't grin, dearheart! You may be more right than you know...And he puts more
of his soul into it each time he uses it.
<shiver>
Take care; faith manages!
Wes Struebing
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
str...@americanisp.com
ph: 303-343-9006 / FAX: 303-343-9026
home page: http://users.americanisp.com/~wstruebi/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John W. Kennedy
> Not exactly. There's no way that a writer would be able to *write* for the
> show given what little is revealed in the Crusade Writer's Bible.
It's roughly comparable in information content to the ST:Voyager bible.
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
Alpe97
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>> I'm about the same way by it's because I wanna find out what is in that
>> spooky box, gosh durn it! ;)
>>
>Gideon's soul :)
>
Don't grin, dearheart! You may be more right than you know...And he puts more
of his soul into it each time he uses it.
<shiver>
Hmmmm, sounding more and more like Bilbo/Frodo's RING!
Andy
Dianne Heins
Get thee behind me <g>
Dianne
Patriarch
"John W. Kennedy" wrote:
Hmm, one could say that ST: Voyager doesn't have a planned story and character
development so it wouldn't need anything more in detail. Crusade on the
otherhand.....I dunno. .
Joe, was the bible editted for sale?