Is the surgery a radical option for solving prostatitis?
Dr. A. N. Feliciano
"We are not treating the same disease
that you are treating. That is why NA doctors who have tried to follow your
protocol do not achieve cure rates of more than 20-40% at best (some have
stated that they have never cured a patient with this protocol"
Attach is the suggested protocol in Art. 12 found in my webpage, which I do
not think any NA doctor have followed strictly to the letter.
. I feel that we are treating the same disease that you are trying to
treat, yet not achieving the same results as I have after more than 30
years of research. However your 20 to 40% cure rate is far better than less
than 20% without the massage therapy which is the beginning. I am glad that
at least you are trying your own experiment based on a semblance of my
method I was doing 10 years ago, which I have modified to the present
protocol.
May I remind you again that my webpage is to encourage doctors to try the
method I have developed and not to argue pointlessly about the merits and
demerits. Instead information can be exchange between doctors in a
professional manner.
In your E mail, you wrote that you feel that the cause of unknown pelvic
pain is the results of previous infection or inflammation. I agree with you
here and the message is to educate more doctors to standardize the
diagnosis and to treat this condition more aggressively, and prevent more
patients from being confused and go from doctor to doctor for years
resulting in chronic pelvic pain syndrome. At least doctors are now
attempting to standardize the diagnosis during the NIH meeting last
November and remove the notorious "prostatodynia" from the classification.
This is the beginning!!
Dr. Antonio Novak Feliciano
Visit my website
http://web.idirect.com/~ino
http://www.qinet.net.user/dr.anf/chronic.htm
dsho...@my-dejanews.com
Prostatitis Discussion <PROST...@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> wrote:
>
> Attach is the suggested protocol in Art. 12 found in my webpage, which I do
> not think any NA doctor have followed strictly to the letter.
To be blunt, that is because much of what you have written in this newsgroup
and in your articles makes little or no sense to me or any other doctor whom
I have spoken to who has read them. I disagree with many of your statements
and disagree that much of the literature you quote actually supports your
views. None of that would matter if your techniques worked in our patients
but they don't, as the soon to be published paper by Nickel on the experience
of several North Amercian urologists with antibiotics and massage will show.
When I tried YOUR EXACT protocol in a number of patients I did not achieve a
single cure or even symptomatic improvement. I applaud and commend you for
setting it out in sufficient detail for others to try and test;
reproducibility by others is the cornerstone of scientific research. The fact
that it doesn't work means either that the technique is not what you posted
or that the patients are different. Your recent posts suggest that it is
because the patients are different. Fine, great explanation, time to move on
to other things for my patients.
>
> . I feel that we are treating the same disease that you are trying to
> treat, yet not achieving the same results as I have after more than 30
> years of research. However your 20 to 40% cure rate is far better than less
> than 20% without the massage therapy which is the beginning. I am glad that
> at least you are trying your own experiment based on a semblance of my
> method I was doing 10 years ago, which I have modified to the present
> protocol.
>
If I had known your protocol didn't work in North American patients with
chronic pelvic pain syndrome 3 years ago, it would have saved me a lot of
wasted clinical time and research. There were lots of clues, including the
complete lack of any reputable peer reviewed publications but I tried
nevertheless. So now we have had to start at square one and develop our own
protocols and approaches. We have been successful for a large number of very
difficult patients (roughly 67% cured or improved), but much more work needs
to be done. 99% of what I do clinically in Urology, Immunology and Organ
Transplantation is based on the published research and experience of others
whom I gladly quote and reference, but in the case of our research in
prostatitis and the protocols of the NIH study, your articles do not form
that basis.
>At least doctors are now
> attempting to standardize the diagnosis during the NIH meeting last
> November and remove the notorious "prostatodynia" from the classification.
Yes, it is now called chronic pelvic pain syndrome class IIIb.
I don't mean to be aggressive or argumentative in this public forum, but I
feel it is important to once clearly state my position.
Daniel Shoskes MD
UCLA
http://www.ben2.ucla.edu/~dshoskes
Institute for Male Urology
http://www.urol.com
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Inspector Clouseau
> I don't mean to be aggressive or argumentative in
> this public forum, but I feel it is important to
> once clearly state my position.
May I say "Well said!", Dr Shoskes. It is long overdue. There's nothing
wrong with a bit of clarity-enhancing aggression or nonsense-banishing
argument.
I have found that Quercetin 1000mg b.i.d. puts my symptoms so much into
the background that I am having trouble motivating myself to write to
this group. I know this makes a lot of you happy ;-)
I'm glad to see others are prepared to combat the Manila Microbe
Monomaniac. Perhaps now the debate can move forward to more productive
areas and topics. I'll read the new Nickel research with interest.
For those of you not wishing to see the constant, daily posts from Dr
Feliciano, simply add him to your killfile (In Netscape, go to the Edit
Menu-->Message Filters).
Anyone2323
Below I pulled from your web site which seems to go against what you are now
saying about no benefit in following the ANF protocol. Just for
clarification, you see no major benefit in the ANF protcol? Thanks in
advance.
Antibiotics plus Massage:
"In a proportion of patients not responding to antibiotics alone, antibiotics
combined with regular prostatic massage every 2nd or 3rd day with monitoring of
the prostatic fluid can lead to a cure, or at least a significant improvement
in symptoms. We have found that this combination can sterilize bacteria in
close to 100% of patients who have often failed multiple previous courses of
antibiotics, although long lasting symptomatic improvement is seen in only
about 40% of these patients".
dsho...@my-dejanews.com
anyon...@aol.com (Anyone2323) wrote:
> Dear Dr. Shoskes,
>
> Below I pulled from your web site which seems to go against what you are now
> saying about no benefit in following the ANF protocol. Just for
> clarification, you see no major benefit in the ANF protcol? Thanks in
> advance.
>
As I have said many times and have posted on our web site, we do find that a
combination of antibiotics and prostatic massage helps a proportion of
patients. Dr. ANF's protocol is not equivalent to prostatic massage and
antibiotic therapy as a perusal of his many web articles and newsgroup posts
will attest. As you could see from his recent post, he believes that the fact
that our cure rate using massage and antibiotics is not over 40% is because
we don't adhere to his protocol. Prostatic massage as therapy for CP predates
Dr. ANF by several decades.
Dr. A. N. Feliciano
> From: dsho...@MY-DEJANEWS.COM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Prostatic massage and ANF protocol
> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 7:47 AM
combination of antibiotics given empirically and/or based on cultures
accompanied daily massage for the first 4 visits and every day massage
thereafter. That the antibiotics are replaced even only after only 2 days,
if the follow up laboratory test do not indicate an improvement. And that
the treatment should not last longer than 2 to 3 weeks with few exceptions.
I have also stated many times that prostatic massage have been employed, as
you stated "predate ANF by many decades". Are you implying erroneously by
innuendo that I am taking sole credit for the massage therapy? Let us be
more factual and professional if we are to continue in this debate.
Antonio Novak Feliciano, M.D., F.P.C.S.