Crusade : It's the ratings folks!
ali...@aol.com
I would have liked to seen crusade have it's run. There are a couple of
points I would like to make with regard to its cancelation
First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
advertising money.
Second I see a progression here that wasn't good. B5 went from
syndication ( a large viewer base, accessable to anyone with a TV ) to
TNT ( still a large viewer base since it's a basic cable station, but
smaller since it's only on cable ) to, ( if ACTA had gone to the SCI-FI
channel ) a much smaller viewer base, since not everyone has that
channel. The bottom line here IS the bottom line. The smaller the viewer
base, the smaller the audience that will be reached, the less money
there is to produce a show, and the less advertising dollars to draw
from, etc..
While us diehards want to see the show continue, we alone are not enough
to keep it going. Again, it's the ratings. Things were not heading in a
good direction. While we may enjoy the show, it wasn't drawing in new
viewers. When the Crusade series airs it may in fact do that, and I hope
it does. Again it's the ratings. With good ratings, comes renewed
interest, and more importantly, more money.
Just my thoughts
Alan
Miaka 1164
of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
advertising money.
>>
If I remember right from JMS's comments on The Lurker's Guide, Houdini cost
about three times more to make and had a lot more advertising and STILL got the
same ratings as A Call to Arms. If A Call to Arms had more advertising, it
would have done better. The only reason I even knew it even existed (this was
before I was a B5 net addict) was because I happened to catch one of the rare
commercials for it.
Diane K De
>here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
>broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
>time for every time zone is beyond me.
It's run at 4PM on the East cost too. TNT added a West Coast Feed last summer.
DD
John W Kennedy
> First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
> of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything.
-- those are good ratings for TNT in prime time.
> I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
> here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
> broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
> time for every time zone is beyond me.
A. Nobody runs "programs at the same time for every time zone".
Normally, there are two feeds, one for Eastern and Central, and one for
Pacific. Mountain (by a _huge_ factor the least populated) gets pot
luck.
B. For months now, TNT has been doing just that. Before that, it was
just running an east-coast feed, which is what virtually all cable
outlets do until they reach a certain size. Delayed feeds cost money.
Heck, if most of what you do is run tape, I dare say the running cost of
two feeds must be nearly twice the running cost of one.
C. B5 is running at 4 P.M. by choice; time zones have nothing to do
with it. This is TNT's third rerun cycle and will soon be the fourth.
You can't expect reruns in or near prime time to last forever in today's
market.
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
Patty Winter
>
>I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
>here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
>broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
>advertising money.
TNT added a West Coast feed several months ago. Their programs now
*are* airing at the same time of day in both ET and PT.
Patty
Jms at B5
>had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
Nothing on cable -- nada -- gets a 10 rating. The successful shows get
somewhere from a 1 to a 3 rating, that's it. That's all the penetration you
can get given the number of sets that have cable.
Sliders, considered a big hit on SFC, generally gets a 1.0 rating.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
Steve Brinich
> First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
> of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If
> it had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the
> show.
Well, duh -- after a miracle like getting a 10 rating on cable,
presumably JMS would walk on water and turn it into wine as encore
performances. ;-)
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@Radix.Net> If the government wants us
http://www.Radix.Net/~steveb to respect the law
89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E it should set a better example
just~pat
Which I enjoyed immensely for the two months that I was living on the west
coast after they did that. But then I moved to Arizona where it comes from
the east coast (I think) feed, and it was on at 5pm again. So I can get home
just in time to see the scenes from the next show....
??pat
Pat Luther --- http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~pluther
"...and, when all men are hastening to become either tyrants or slaves,
that is when we make Liberalism the prime bogey."
- Screwtape (C.S. Lewis)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Philip R. Columbus
# I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
# here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
# broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
# time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
# advertising money.
# Just my thoughts
#
# Alan
#
Alan,
The TNT satellite system now broadcasts on the East and West Coasts at the
same time. I'm in Virginia and B5 hits TNT at 4:00 p.m. same as you.
Sorry to burst your bubble but we on the other coast are not getting a
better deal than you :)
Philip R. Columbus
philipc...@home.com
http://members.home.com/philipcolumbus/
AOL IM: mr1492
ICQ# 4786099
Powered by OS/2 Warp Ver. 4
* Cum Dignitate Otium - Leisure With Dignity *
Paul Comeau
jms...@aol.com says...
> >First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
> >of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
> >had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
>
> somewhere from a 1 to a 3 rating, that's it. That's all the penetration you
> can get given the number of sets that have cable.
Hence why TNT and USA like wrestling... current ratings range from 4.0 to
5.0 for TNT's show on Monday. USA's Monday night wrestling has hit a two
hour average as high as 5.9 (houlys of 5.9 to 6.2 sometimes.)
What I fine funny is that the wrestling fans have no notion how high of a
rating this is for there shows.
Sigh....
Crusade with profesional wrestlers? No let's not got there...
>
> Sliders, considered a big hit on SFC, generally gets a 1.0 rating.
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> B5 Official Fan Club at:
> http://www.thestation.com
>
-pmc
Joe Schulte
: To add my 2 cents
: I would have liked to seen crusade have it's run. There are a couple of
: points I would like to make with regard to its cancelation
: First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
: of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
: had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
: I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
: here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
: broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
: time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
: advertising money.
Well, advertising works both ways, though.
IIRC, "Houdini" got the same ratings as ACTA. TNT hyped the hell out of
Houdini (how many spots did they run an hour?) while ACTA was almost
ignored promotion-wise.
I'm sure that had a tad of an effect.
Laura M. Appelbaum
>
> I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
> here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up.
For what very little it was worth, I made sure to catch it a couple of
times during the week we were a "Nielson's" household last month.
LMA
Mac Breck
When you're falling you might as well try to fly. After all you've got
nothing to lose.
Mac
Diane K De
It is my understanding that when any studio, has any series in development,
they start at the top and work their way down.
I suspect that WB's "been there and done that".
DD
Brian Watson
I want to know if he's approached Showtime for it. After all, they've got
plenty of original series in production and eventually being released to
syndication (or whatever the term is). They have Stargate SG1, Poltergeist,
they had several other shows as well, unfortunately I can't recall the name of
them. So why not them? They seem to be pretty friendly to original series
produced for Showtime, so why can't a deal be worked with them? Also, they have
got to have a much higher budget than the SCIFI channel, so they must be more
likely to be able to afford the series.
Cronan
Joe Schulte wrote
>: First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
>: of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
>: had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
>: I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
>: here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
>: broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
>: time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
>: advertising money.
>
>Well, advertising works both ways, though.
>
>IIRC, "Houdini" got the same ratings as ACTA. TNT hyped the hell out of
>Houdini (how many spots did they run an hour?) while ACTA was almost
>ignored promotion-wise.
>
>I'm sure that had a tad of an effect.
I have my doubts that the hype - or lack thereof - of ACTA had anything
to with its rating.
Cronan
Spooky
here", and various coffee stains, philipc...@home.com (Philip R.
Columbus) scribbled:
>On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:32:08, ali...@aol.com expressed the opinion that:
>
># I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
># here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
># broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
># time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
># advertising money.
># Just my thoughts
>#
># Alan
>#
>
>Alan,
>
>The TNT satellite system now broadcasts on the East and West Coasts at the
>same time. I'm in Virginia and B5 hits TNT at 4:00 p.m. same as you.
>
>Sorry to burst your bubble but we on the other coast are not getting a
>better deal than you :)
But you are getting a better deal then us B5 fans in the Midwest, it
comes on a 3pm here, and I don't get home from school untill 4:15 :*(
>
>Philip R. Columbus
>philipc...@home.com
>http://members.home.com/philipcolumbus/
>AOL IM: mr1492
>ICQ# 4786099
>Powered by OS/2 Warp Ver. 4
>
>* Cum Dignitate Otium - Leisure With Dignity *
>
>
>
--Brigand Spooky... Hoping that JMS can get Crusade going, in TV, Book, Comic, or whatever form he chooses...
"To all those convinced that the Babylon project would fail in it's mission:
FAITH MANAGES."
--Joe Micheal Stratazinsky, creator of Babylon 5, as well as Crusade, which is currently without a home...
Bill Newkirk
all the things that happened during that time..
heck, B5 even survived the death of the distributor (PTEN)...
ali...@aol.com wrote in message <36DDB4...@aol.com>...
>here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
>broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
>time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
>advertising money.
4 time zones = 4 satellite feeds (or heavy compression on one...if you want
to see pixellated tv..) = 4x cost.
it's why VTR's have timers.
time on satellites were very cheap a few years ago, then the channel boom
occured and filled 'em up.
Joe Schulte
: Joe Schulte wrote
: >: First, it's the ratings. As I remember ACTA got something in the range
: >: of 2.3 to 2.8, something like that. That my friends is everything. If it
: >: had gotten, say a 10, TNT would be falling over itself to keep the show.
: >: I don't know what kind of ratings the B5 reruns are getting but at 4PM
: >: here on the west coast, I don't hold my hopes up. Why oh why TNT can't
: >: broadcast like everyone else and have their programs run at the same
: >: time for every time zone is beyond me. I guess they enjoy losing
: >: advertising money.
: >
: >Well, advertising works both ways, though.
: >
: >IIRC, "Houdini" got the same ratings as ACTA. TNT hyped the hell out of
: >Houdini (how many spots did they run an hour?) while ACTA was almost
: >ignored promotion-wise.
: >
: >I'm sure that had a tad of an effect.
: I have my doubts that the hype - or lack thereof - of ACTA had anything
: to with its rating.
Because?
Let me guess, because it was B5 and you like taking shots any chance you
get.
Fact of the matter is that advertisement affects how a show does. There
can be no doubt about that.
Personally, I didn't much like ACTA. The only B5 movie I thought was worth
the name was In the Beginning.
However, more hype would have added to ACTA's ratings. That is, after all,
why stations *do* it.
Andy Hock
>
> Cronan (h...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
> : I have my doubts that the hype - or lack thereof - of ACTA had anything
> : to with its rating.
>
> can be no doubt about that.
>
> why stations *do* it.
Very true. I know of at least two fans who didn't
watch ACTA because they didn't know it was being
shown. It's real easy to know all the plans (or
lack thereof) for B5 and Crusade when you're on
line. Other fans need to rely on commercials to
inform them. And B5 was out of first-run before
TNT started promoting Crusade.
Andy Hock
Andy Hock
>
> And B5 was out of first-run before
> TNT started promoting Crusade.
Oops! I should have said before TNT started
promoting ACTA, not Crusade.
Andy Hock
Diane K De
>: to with its rating.
>
>
>Let me guess, because it was B5 and you like taking shots any chance you
>get.
>
>can be no doubt about that.
>
Advertising puts a show in a viewer's "consideration set" by making them aware
the show is on. That's how all advertising works.
Awareness is the first step. Converting awareness to viewing is the second.
Once a viewer is aware something is on, they then ask some questions. "What's
it about?" and "Who's in it?" are a few important ones to them making a
decision on viewing. I've always thought that "River of Souls" is the worst
rated B5 movie because the answers to those questions weren't very good.
So, all the hype in the world could be put behind a movie if it doesn't seem
worth watching.
Alternatively, a movie that "sounds good" can go a long way.
Additional factors are (1) competition, and (2) basic viewing levels--how many
people have the TV on. The Sunday after New Years seems to be a good one. The
competition is low and viewing levels are high.
DD
Cronan
>I still think it's a miracle that the original 5 years was produced, given
>all the things that happened during that time..
There's nothing miraculous about creating what people want to see.
Cronan
Cronan
>: >I'm sure that had a tad of an effect.
>
>: to with its rating.
>
>Because?
Take too long to explain.
>Let me guess, because it was B5 and you like taking shots any chance you
>get.
Joe, I don't know if you've ever noticed this or not, but I take
shots at everything just about equally.
>Fact of the matter is that advertisement affects how a show does. There
>can be no doubt about that.
You're right, advertising does effect how a show does. However, you
original post heavily intimates that advertising is what *determines*
ratings.
>Personally, I didn't much like ACTA. The only B5 movie I thought was worth
>the name was In the Beginning.
>
>However, more hype would have added to ACTA's ratings. That is, after all,
>why stations *do* it.
Oh, I doubt that. Overhype has a tendency to kill ratings in a hurry.
Let us, for example, point to Star Trek: Voyager and Dilbert on UPN. I
can point to several more examples of promotion climbing while ratings/
box office/sales/whatever drop if you so desire.
Cronan
Cronan
>Once a viewer is aware something is on, they then ask some questions. "What's
>it about?" and "Who's in it?" are a few important ones to them making a
>decision on viewing. I've always thought that "River of Souls" is the worst
>rated B5 movie because the answers to those questions weren't very good.
And here I thought it'd take too long to explain. ACTA had better
answers to those questions. "What's it about?" Evil aliens are
going to attack Earth! But the good guys have a Sooper Sekrut
Weapon. Lots of explosions. This appeals to B5's target demos
better than a lot things.
>So, all the hype in the world could be put behind a movie if it doesn't seem
>worth watching.
Conversely, a distinct lack of can't prevent something people really
want to see from being seen.
Cronan
Joe Schulte
: Joe Schulte wrote
: >: >I'm sure that had a tad of an effect.
: >
: >: I have my doubts that the hype - or lack thereof - of ACTA had anything
: >: to with its rating.
: >
: >Because?
: Take too long to explain.
If you say so.
: >Let me guess, because it was B5 and you like taking shots any chance you
: >get.
: Joe, I don't know if you've ever noticed this or not, but I take
: shots at everything just about equally.
Not really. You only stopped to troll in the Wing Commander group for a
couple minutes. You do it here for hours and hours.
: >Fact of the matter is that advertisement affects how a show does. There
: >can be no doubt about that.
: You're right, advertising does effect how a show does. However, you
: original post heavily intimates that advertising is what *determines*
: ratings.
It's a factor. Certainly you're not denying that. Looking at the
advertising budgets for various products (Nike *does* still make shoes,
right?) advertising apparently affects things heavily.
: >Personally, I didn't much like ACTA. The only B5 movie I thought was worth
: >the name was In the Beginning.
: >
: >However, more hype would have added to ACTA's ratings. That is, after all,
: >why stations *do* it.
: Oh, I doubt that. Overhype has a tendency to kill ratings in a hurry.
: Let us, for example, point to Star Trek: Voyager and Dilbert on UPN. I
: can point to several more examples of promotion climbing while ratings/
: box office/sales/whatever drop if you so desire.
Being able to point to certain examples does not make a difference. It
proves that it CAN happen, not that it necessarily DOES.
As someone else mentioned (in this thread or another) there were ISP-less
B5 fans who didn't even know ACTA aired. Promotion would have helped that.