More information
Dr. A. N. Feliciano
distinguish bacterial from non bacterial prostatitis. Our line of thinking
is that chronic prostatitis and other genito urinary tract infection are
due to organisms identified or not, until proven otherwise. Past and recent
studies conducted by researchers have indicated that the many of the
so-called nonbacterial prostatitis are actually due to bacteria. And our
experience in dealing with these infection by employing a combination of
antibiotics given empirically and/or based on cultures, accompanied by
frequent prostatic massages for 2 to 3 weeks is far better than weeks and
months of antibiotics. (For details, refer to Art. 11, 12, and 13 found in
my website). We have also encourage doctors to deal with these infections
considering all sites of the genito urinary tract and not just the
prostate.
We also lecture all our patients with the aid of slides on the
transmission, pathology, and association of symptoms with the disease, with
the result that a patient will have better understanding of his disease,
and will no longer be confuse. This information is probably a big factor in
curing a patient.
My presence in the internet and in this forum is primarily intended to
convince doctor to give our method a try, and some are now doing this.
I have survived the incessant onslaught of an anonymous person, by ignoring
him and many have decided to also ignor his postings.
Ken Smith has become knowledgeable of the problem and has contributed
greatly to this forum specially in the value of prostatic drainage.
I have stated in the past that a negative culture does not rule out any
organism, yet many including doctors are still using this criteria to
diagnosed non bacterial prostatitis. Many doctors still consider some
bacteria cultures from the EPS as non pathologic and are either normal
flora or contaminants.
May I suggest that more information on the sensitivity of cultures to
differentiate the diagnosis be done and included in the Prostatitis
Foundation website, since more and more new members who have not read
previous communications are confused with a history similar to most
patients that have gone from doctor to doctor, without getting a definite
answer.
Without the Prostatitis Foundation website and this forum, WHERE WILL YOU
BE!!!
Dr. Antonio Novak Feliciano
Visit my website
http://web.idirect.com/~ino
http://www.qinet.net.user/dr.anf/chronic.htm
Dr Bogus
> Our line of thinking...
Should be "My" line of thinking...
> Past and recent studies conducted by researchers
> have indicated that the many of the so-called
> nonbacterial prostatitis are actually due to bacteria.
There are no studies indicating this ... newbies beware! If you fall for
this guy's spiel and go to Manila, you will return uncured, just like many
before you.
<spammy, patient-luring, favor-currying advertisement snipped>
Dr Feliciano, now a very old man, is present in this forum for two
reasons -- he still sees the occasional wealthy Western patient, and this
forum has provided him with a rich harvest, and secondly he is still
involved in a bitter feud with his son, Dr AEF. Recently we saw how Dr ANF
forged a message from his son to this group. He is hoping that current
research will justify his position on CP, and allow him (not his son) to
bask in the glory of being the "father" of the Manila Protocol. Of course
anyone with any knowledge of the history of prostatitis treatments will know
that prostate drainage and targeted antibiotics dates to the 1940's, and it
was abandoned in the 50's and 60's due to the poor results. Dr ANF, who was
trained circa 1940, thinks his ideas are new and cutting edge, which just
goes to show that if you hang around long enough, everything eventually
comes back into style. Or does it? In this case, I think not.
darkstar
insight to research my own problem, convincing my own urologist is
another major problem... despite the poor individual who don't fit into
the std category your work is highly relevent to us all... for the non
believers look to "FRANK ZAPPA" case history and understand why it is
imperative to shut down resistive std's before they become deadly... mea
culpa again
In article <B0001...@mail.qinet.net>, you say...
> The majority of doctors rely on expensive often unobtainable cultures to
> distinguish bacterial from non bacterial prostatitis. Our line of thinking
> is that chronic prostatitis and other genito urinary tract infection are
> studies conducted by researchers have indicated that the many of the
Ed Mathews
cancer was actually caused by some STD? I must have missed that issue of
the Weekly World News. Wow! You mean, prostate cancer, the disease so
common that it kills more men than breast cancer does women, is now
officially caused by STDs? I guess more men must be fooling around than I
thought! From that, can we also draw the conclusion that breast cancer is
caused by breast infections? I pity all the poor people who have had sore
throats - for them it's just a matter of time.
Thanks for reading.
Ed
Send e-mail to it...@erols.com
Sammy
if you read anything about frank zappa his wife gail says in almost
everything i've read that he had every std under the sun.... and from what
i've seen there is a strong correlation between std's and cancer
std's cause chronic inflamation. percusor to hyperplasia... cells that
exhibit hyperplasia are the ones most likely to proceed to mutate onto
cancer...read the other post about biopsies that
are negative always show hyperplasia.... you alot of people in this group
sound just like the doctors that they are ragging on... those wonderful
urologists who will under "hmo" only do economically feasible procedures...
now i'm going for a biopsy because of psa 10.2 , the man has an ultrasound
but he wants to send me to a
radiology group to have my "balls" ultrasoundeed by a technician who
graduated from a idiot school, because it is economically unfeasible for
him... Much of Dr. Feliciano's work centers around std's and their relation
to cp.. he doesn't ask people to come from what i've seen . They just go,
and hope for a miracle instead of researching their own problems...I truly
feel sorry for them that they are so bitter about there lot in life.. but
its time for them to grow up and maybe seek counseling. All the good doctor
is saying as far as i can see is encouraging research in this area... i
thinnk you all miss the point in your narrow-mindedness.... just like the
myth that clamydia is only sexually transmitted and doesn't carry along
with another organism.
Ed Mathews <it...@EROLS.COM> wrote in article
<000a01be5432$52d8f200$8f98accf@default>...
Dave & Laurie Pringle
> Dr. A. N. Feliciano <dr....@QINET.NET> wrote...
>
> > Our line of thinking...
>
> Should be "My" line of thinking...
>
> > Past and recent studies conducted by researchers
> > have indicated that the many of the so-called
> > nonbacterial prostatitis are actually due to bacteria.
>
Hi Dr. B.,
I think it would be interesting to read a "history" of treatment of
prostatitis over time. Is there anything printed that you know of, that
a person might get access to?
Another thing that would be interesting is to have urologists who are
currently practicing give their opinion of the massage plus antibiotics
method of treatment.
Dave
Dr Bogus
Dave & Laurie Pringle <prin...@voyageur.ca> wrote ...
> I think it would be interesting to read a "history"
> of treatment of prostatitis over time. Is there
> anything printed that you know of, that a person
> might get access to?
No. I'd like to read something like this too.
> Another thing that would be interesting is to have
> urologists who are currently practicing give their
> opinion of the massage plus antibiotics method of
> treatment.
Dr Shoskes gives it qualified support, and his results show it to be
marginally more effective than Abx alone at 4 month follow-up. Abx are often
anti-inflammatory, and drainage/massage can help by unclogging painfully
congested glands, so the *why* and *how* of the "Abx+massage" treatment's
occasional (and I suspect short-lived) success is very much open to debate.
As a measure of its efficacy, the many urologists who have been talked into
trying it by their patients (who read about it here and at the ANF/AEF/PF
websites) usually do not continue to offer it, unless patients demand it.
Dave & Laurie Pringle
Thanks,
If memory serves me correctly I think that Dr. Shoskes, in relation to a
discussion generated by a post about the use of massage plus
antiobiotics, suggested that this was a standard part of the training
where he attended school (massage.... plus antibiotics?). Maybe it was
massage alone as a treatment he was referring to.
I think this is an important point to clarify, that is, had massage and
antiobiotics been advocated as a treatment at one point in time and
discarded once it was found to be ineffective? I have read that massage
alone (for a "congested prostate") had been discarded as being a waste
of patient's money in that it was no more effective than ejaculation,
however I hadn't read a word about massage plus antibiotics as a
treatment before finding this idea on the net.
Dave
Ed Mathews
but everyone's entitled to a bad day now and then. 3. Your situation may
be unique, as many others here are also, so let's be aware of that. 4.
Obviously, as posted earlier, having CP does not preclude one from getting
PC, but most doctors will still agree it and/or infection does not cause it.
5. Following this list with all the aliases, fake names, and multiple
personalities has become way too difficult. 6. I still wish you the best,
and hope that at least somebody here is helped, eventually. Who knows,
maybe we're all wrong.
> > > Past and recent
> > > > studies conducted by researchers have indicated that the many of the
> > > > so-called nonbacterial prostatitis are actually due to
dsho...@my-dejanews.com
Dave & Laurie Pringle <prin...@voyageur.ca> wrote:
> If memory serves me correctly I think that Dr. Shoskes, in relation to a
> discussion generated by a post about the use of massage plus
> antiobiotics, suggested that this was a standard part of the training
> where he attended school (massage.... plus antibiotics?). Maybe it was
> massage alone as a treatment he was referring to.
The standard part of my training was obtaining EPS in all patients with
suspected CP, which many urologists have stopped doing. Dr. Nickel's book on
Chronic Prostatitis, due out in May 1999, has an excellent chapter on the
history of chronic prostatitis treatments which should answer all your
questions.
We are about to begin a study comparing massage + antibiotic vs massage +
placebo to see if the antibiotic is in fact contributing anything to the
outcome. I believe 1 or 2 other groups are also exploring this, but have not
seen any published data yet.
Daniel Shoskes MD
UCLA
http://www.ben2.ucla.edu/~dshoskes
Institute for Male Urology
http://www.ur
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Dr Bogus
>> Dr Shoskes gives it qualified support,
>
>Do you do PR for him?
I'd be honored to do his PR, Koski.
Give me 10 urologists like Dr Shoskes and I'll give you a cure for CP, or at
least a definitive understanding of its cause.
BTW, have you tried Quercetin from the recommended source, Koski? I'm very
impressed so far :-)
Dr. A. N. Feliciano
has resulted in improvement of symptoms. If the classification of the
doctors conducting such studies is based on previous classification of
bacterial and nonbacterial prostatitis, how will then the patient be
classified? And if classified as nonbacterial, will they still incorporate
antibiotics? What will be the criteria of a cure?
These are questions to be answered in order to have a meaningful conclusion
on the study.
Dr. Antonio Novak Feliciano
Visit my website
http://web.idirect.com/~ino
http://www.qinet.net.user/dr.anf/chronic.htm
----------
> From: dsho...@MY-DEJANEWS.COM
> To:
> Subject: Re: More information, More Spam
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 10:27 PM
Dave & Laurie Pringle
> Prostatic massages alone or in combination with antibiotic and/or
> placebo
> has resulted in improvement of symptoms.
Dr. Feliciano,Non expert comment here but it seems glaringly obvious
that this is your hypothesis. ( that it works). The study will ask "does
it work?", by using placebo and it will also test antibiotics plus
massage to see the "cure" rate. It will be interesting to see what the
results are.
Dave
Dr. A. N. Feliciano
patients. I have never used placebo, but have massage some of my patients
whose symptoms persist after the 2 to 3 weeks of treatment, and satisfied
that there is no more active infection of the genito urinary tract. These
are patients who will accumulate sterile prostatic fluid due to scarring of
prostatic ducts, will experience relief of symptoms (referred pain and
erection dysfunction), after draining the accumulated secretion.
Dr. Antonio Novak Feliciano
Visit my website
http://web.idirect.com/~ino
http://www.qinet.net.user/dr.anf/chronic.htm
----------
> From: Dave & Laurie Pringle <prin...@VOYAGEUR.CA>
> To:
> Subject: Re: More information, More Spam
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:32 PM
Squizzly
he got prostate cancer?! I suspected as much when I read that he was angry
about getting cancer because he said that he'd been getting his prostate
checked regularly. I don't think there are that many guys in their 40s and 50s
who get their prostate's checked regularly if they don't have something wrong
down there to begin with. God bless Frank's soul. I used to listen to his stuff
all the time, those crazy songs. He was a genius. If he actually had CP, then
you can toss all the bullshit about CP not causing cancer out the window, which
I think you can anyway. I thought about writing to his wife, Gail Zappa, to ask
about it. I've read that she's a pretty upfront woman. Tell me what you know
about this! Did Frank actually have CP before he got cancer?
Dave Sjolin
>
> Darkstar! My good man, do you know for certain that Frank Zappa had CP before
> he got prostate cancer?! I suspected as much when I read that he was angry
> about getting cancer because he said that he'd been getting his prostate
> checked regularly. I don't think there are that many guys in their 40s and 50s
> who get their prostate's checked regularly if they don't have something wrong
> down there to begin with. God bless Frank's soul. I used to listen to his stuff
> all the time, those crazy songs. He was a genius. If he actually had CP, then
> you can toss all the bullshit about CP not causing cancer out the window, which
> I think you can anyway. I thought about writing to his wife, Gail Zappa, to ask
> about it. I've read that she's a pretty upfront woman. Tell me what you know
> about this! Did Frank actually have CP before he got cancer?
Whether Zappa had CP before he got Prostate Cancer doesnt prove
anything, except he was twice unfortunate. Time for you to take freshman
logic course. He probably had the flu sometime prior to developing
Prostate Cancer also. You could make a similar case that the flu caused
his cancer.
You need to longitudinal studies with decent samples of men with CP and
without. Track their behavior at least thru their 60's and compare their
rate of cancer, year by year.
- Dave -
Ed Mathews
it not? (N=1)
Thanks for reading.
Ed
Send e-mail to it...@erols.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Prostatitis Discussion
> [mailto:PROST...@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Squizzly
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 5:58 PM
> To: PROST...@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Re: More information