The method which makes sense

[Petr Vanysek]

Drainage. Press the prostate, open the congested acinus, get the puss
out. That makes so much sense it boggles mind how simple it is. This
making sense is what kept a bunch of us in Manila the summer before
last. 18 months later it still makes a sense, but lacks some of the
credibility.
Those who were entirely cured by the technique are few and far between.
That seemed to be the gist of the Anonymous message, when he asked those
who were cured to speak up. There is a flaw with such requests. Those
cured will hardly come back and read the newsgroup. However, those cured
would almost certainly post at least once, when they came back, happily
jumping up and down with joy. Some of you study the archives quite
thoroughly. If you know of the happy returns, please, post them.
There are a couple issues that bother me with the drainage. First is
the claim of a cure by drainage and antibiotics. Dr. A. E. Feliciano
Jr., has been using drainage every other day and typically administered
concurrently two antibiotics, sometimes only one, and if at all
possible, always based on bacteriological results. I do not know what is
the current claim of cure from his office. While I had my direct
experience with it, it was quite mediocre. Dr. A. N. Feliciano (the
other Feliciano and a frequent contributor to this group) uses three,
even four antibiotics concurrently, and a daily drainage. That does not
seem to be such a big difference. It is my view that a body in general
wants to be healthy and has mechanisms of getting rid of the offender to
its comfort. Not always as we sadly know from way too many examples, but
it works more often than not. Even it the mechanism works, it does not
hurt to help the body and antibiotics are certainly such helpers.
As magnificent as these compounds are, there is very little mysterious
about them. In general, their action on the molecular basis is well
known. From this point of view I fail to understand how a step up from
two concurrent antibiotics to three or four could cause such a dramatic
improvement in the cure rate. Similarly, I fail to see how drainage
daily as opposed to every other day could result in such a dramatic
difference. It would make sense that four antibiotics are better than
two and daily drainage is better than half that frequent. Better yes.
But how could it suddenly change a mediocre result into an excellent? If
it indeed is the case, then Dr. ANF has discovered the equivalent of the
"cocktail Aids treatment." If so, then he can forget his family feud.
This would be something very new. But to pass it onto other doctors, he
must share it in a medical literature. But perhaps, the cure rate is not
as high as is being said. We still have to hear from the cured patients.
There is a second issue with the drainage, which bothers me.
Actually, it is the fact that for some it works. But how does it work?
It was the recent post of a steady contributor to this group, who has
had 120th drainage and he is feeling better than without it. There is
lot of the do-it-youselvers who swear by it. It is great that it helps
to some. But the problem, as I see it, is that it is not a cure, it is
maintenance.
In short, I do not propose that drainage and oral antibiotics are not a
viable cure. But it should not be viewed as the only game in town. There
are some bright urologists around and trying to talk them into the
drainages might do even disservice.

-- Petr Vanysek

[Don]

> Those who were entirely cured by the technique are few and far
between.
> That seemed to be the gist of the Anonymous message, when he asked those
> who were cured to speak up. There is a flaw with such requests. Those
> cured will hardly come back and read the newsgroup. However, those cured
> would almost certainly post at least once, when they came back, happily
> jumping up and down with joy. Some of you study the archives quite
> thoroughly. If you know of the happy returns, please, post them.

this has been my point exactly! the term thousands is used to describe the
cases cured with this protocol. please by all means i encourage any and
everyone on this newsgroup to search the old postings and post all the
cures. i'll bet there is no more than 5.
don

[Alan Cocks]

In article <34AF0EC2...@niu.edu>, Petr Vanysek <pvan...@niu.edu>
writes

[...]

> In short, I do not propose that drainage and oral antibiotics are not a
>viable cure. But it should not be viewed as the only game in town. There
>are some bright urologists around and trying to talk them into the
>drainages might do even disservice.

Recently, there has appeared on the PF website, information from the
Group Androgen (Odessa)

They claim to use a new approach:

*********************************************

The Scientific Research Group -
"Androgen"

[big snip]

New technology treatment and concepts for prostatitis and seminal
vesiculitis in young men.

Our new technology treatment for prostatitis and seminal vesiculitis is
based on fundamental understanding of clinical immunology.

High immunogene conjugates, made by Group Androgen, are used to
influence the action on agents in prostatitis and seminal vesiculitis by
immunological methods, namely by activation and stimulation of immune
responses of a patient.

Pathogenic agents of prostatitis and seminal vesiculitis are eradicated

[big snip]

*********************************************

--
Alan Cocks, Berkshire, UK
support the Prostatitis Foundation http://www.prostate.org

[Ron Rippy]

My prostatitis (burning in urethra) recently started returning. About
this same time I started having unrelated gastric problems (diarrhea,
nausea, extreme tiredness). So I figured now I'm going to be suffering
from two ailments instead of one. But, to my surprise, as my gastric
problems got worse, my prostate got better.

In addition, my right heel pain (which I attributed either to arthritis
or too much Cipro or both) also started to disappear. The doctor sent
word I probably had a virus and basically to "wait it out". After 3 days
I was desperate enough to take some SMP-TMZ which I had left over from a
previous prostate flare-up. I new but didn't care that it wasn't
effective against viruses. As it turned out the doctor had guessed
wrong. After 3 or 4 hours my stomach changed from Niagara Falls to more
like a peaceful lake. And the other symptoms also started to disappear.
When I felt well enough want to think about anything, it occurred to me
that maybe my stomach infection had stimulated my immune system to fight
the gastric bug and, in the process, had killed some prostate bugs as a
desirable (but totally unexpected) side effect. Since my prostate
started to get better BEFORE I took the antibiotic, I dont think it
caused the improvement.

I was thinking of writing this little theory up for this group when I
discovered that someone else already had. I believe this treatment
approach is worth investigating and hope someone will, or at least say
why not.

Ron Rippy

[Danny]

I am a newcomer to this forum. I have only had (or at least known that I
had it) prostatitis for about 6 weeks. I had a small thought about the
controversy of this treatment. It's might be off the mark, but I'll just
throw it out there as food for thought.

This doctor claims a 95% cure rate. I don't know if this is correct or not,
but that still leaves 5% of patients that he says that he can't cure for
whatever reason. From what I gather, several posters from this forum have
gone to Manila to take his treatment and were not cured. It seems possible
to me that the one's who are desperate enough at this point to travel that
far are the real "hard core" patients. The ones who have been to many, many
other doctors and have already tried a variety of different treatments with
no success. Their prostatitis may not be the average, run-of-the-mill
prostatitis. Their cases could be complicated by other factors. I would
also submit that many other posters on this forum are in the same boat. If
prostatitis is as common as we are told, then many people are surely cured
of this condition or this newsgroup would be even busier than it is. Just
another angle to think about.

It seems to me that if we could quit attacking other people who do not agree
with us, then we could spend more time and effort exchanging ideas. If this
doctor is a quack as some people say, then simple economics will silence
him. A doctor is like any other business, if he doesen't "produce", he will
lose his business. He obviously believes in what he is doing as he seems to
have devoted his whole life to it. He has certainly spent many hours of his
time responding to e-mail. If he were just in it for the money or whatever,
he is certainly not picking the most productive means of doing it. Maybe he
is what he says he is, just someone trying to help. I am not at the point
that I am ready to seek out a doctor that will follow his treatment, but if
my condition worsens or does not improve, you can bet that I would be
willing to try it!

Remember, the alternative is people staying silent and not sharing ideas.
Wouldn't it be much worse to not be exposed to new ideas for treatment, even
if you don't agree with them? After all, you don't have to read the ones
you don' t like.

This long winded, standing on a soapbox so high that I can't see all of you
message was not directed at Petr Vanysek, I just attached it to this thread.
Please excuse the numerous errors in grammer.

Petr Vanysek wrote in message <34AF0EC2...@niu.edu>...

>Drainage. Press the prostate, open the congested acinus, get the puss
>out. That makes so much sense it boggles mind how simple it is. This
>making sense is what kept a bunch of us in Manila the summer before
>last. 18 months later it still makes a sense, but lacks some of the
>credibility.

[Dr. A. N. Feliciano]

In certain patients with moderately boggy prostate, we experienced that the
prostate fills up promptly within 24 hours, and the complete drainage is
delayed by massaging it every 2 to 3 days.
In contrast, if we massage this type of prostate daily the time of
resolution is achieve in a shorter time and the amount of EPS is reduced
from as much as a tablespoonful to a few drops within 4 to 8 daily massage.

We also noted the number of pus cells in EPS after each massage, and if we
do not see any reduction in the count after it peaks within a few massage,
we change the antibiotics and in most cases the count gradually drops or
even dramatically drop from a high of over 20 pus cell to less than 5
within 2 to 3 daily massage.

The personal feud Petr mentioned has nothing to do with exposing a doctor's
claim of seeing 30 to 60 patients a day since 1983 and obtaining a 100%
cure rate within 16 days fraudulently, still advertised in the Prostatitis
Foundation. This information is to prevent more victims to consult this
doctor resulting in what Petr has first hand knowledge, in the same manner
that I exposed a quack in the Philippines treating gonorrhea with daily
injection of unknown drug victimizing thousands of patients for dubious
reasons and resulted in the revocation of his license to practice
medicine.

Antonio Novak Feliciano, M.D., F.P.C.S.
http://webcom.net/~ino/
http://www.qinet.net/user/dr.anf/chronic.htm

----------
> From: Petr Vanysek <pvan...@NIU.EDU>
> To:
> Subject: The method which makes sense
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 12:23 PM

>
> Drainage. Press the prostate, open the congested acinus, get the puss
> out. That makes so much sense it boggles mind how simple it is. This
> making sense is what kept a bunch of us in Manila the summer before
> last. 18 months later it still makes a sense, but lacks some of the
> credibility.
> Those who were entirely cured by the technique are few and far
between.
> That seemed to be the gist of the Anonymous message, when he asked those
> who were cured to speak up. There is a flaw with such requests. Those
> cured will hardly come back and read the newsgroup. However, those cured
> would almost certainly post at least once, when they came back, happily
> jumping up and down with joy. Some of you study the archives quite
> thoroughly. If you know of the happy returns, please, post them.

> In short, I do not propose that drainage and oral antibiotics are
not a
> viable cure. But it should not be viewed as the only game in town. There
> are some bright urologists around and trying to talk them into the
> drainages might do even disservice.
>

> -- Petr Vanysek
>