Multiplayer light-gun games for the 8-bit NES?
Joshua Gustafson
NES?
I recently installed a CRT projector and a 10-foot screen in my living room,
and Duck Hunt is rather entertaining on a screen that size. (You actually
have to _move_ your arm around and everything...) I've actually got two
light guns, and that got me wondering about the question above... :-)
-Josh
Mike Harris
port 2, and I've never seen any.
"Joshua Gustafson" <jo...@timsh.dhs.org> wrote in message
news:3kWd7.60486$Kd7.34...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
David Matthew Wood
you're in 1 duck mode, you can control the duck with the controller.
Muresan
Inc. called "Chiller". You have the option of using 2 controllers, 2 light
guns or 1 and 1. As for any others, I can't think of any.
Mike Harris <atar...@home.com> wrote in message
news:C%Xd7.10798$vW2.6...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Muresan
pic from the instruction manual proving my point, I can do that. You can
try finding it on the web but it's not a very popular game so there isn't
much of a chance you'll find it.
David Matthew Wood <nodmw...@mindspringspam.com> wrote in message
news:nodmwood78-AF0ED...@virt-reader.news.rcn.net...
Bent Leads
Why not get a different system that has more multiplayer choices? Or
wouldn't it work for other systems? I've always wondered about those
CRT projectors and lightgun games myself. I'd love to set up all of
my systems for the lightgun games.
BTW, I have Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, and Hogan's Alley for NES.
John Isles, iv
>I repeat...Chiller IS a multiplayer light-gun game. If you want me to add a
>pic from the instruction manual proving my point, I can do that. You can
>try finding it on the web but it's not a very popular game so there isn't
>much of a chance you'll find it.
Having read this game is based on arcade game with a similar title, don't
even bother looking for it unless you LIKE seeing games where the skin
melts off a human body. (Yes, you shoot the skin off, leaving a bloodied
mess on the wall and bone on the body. I don't have the game, but I DID
get info from <http://www.klov.com/C/Chiller.html>. I warn you: If your
browser is set to show pictures, you may get repelled in a heartbeat.
Muhuhahahahahahahahahaha!)
--
From the mind of John Isles, iv <q...@as.net>
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Muresan
arcade. The game for the NES is NOWHERE as gorey as the game you see at
that site. If you really want to see the game, check out this site:
http://nga.zophar.net/ I found it by chance the other day. The NES version
has the same concept as that arcade game but the graphics are not even close
at all.
John Isles, iv <qxz...@as.net> wrote in message
news:qxz.13-ya02408000...@news.as.net...
Joshua Gustafson
monitor, for that matter.) The compatablity on the thing is impressive,
especially for something that's 11 years old. Composite and S-video input,
capable of NTSC, PAL, and even SECAM signals, RGB-sync input for computer
data display from everything to hercules and CGA to SVGA at 800x600 @60Hz.
It's also compatable with the lower-half of the HDTV formats. But I
digress. :-)
As far as other light-gun systems go, do you have any specific system in
mind? I asked about the NES, simply because it's the only system for which
I have _one_ light gun, let alone two, and it's also the only system on
which I've ever actually played a light-gun game. :-) I'd be very open to
suggestions, though, if anyone knows of other systems with good multiplayer
light-gun games.
Also, thanks to those who pointed out "Chiller"; it doesn't look like my
kind of thing, but it _is_ something to look into. :-)
-Josh
"Bent Leads" <bent_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:95f8cf74.01081...@posting.google.com...
Muresan
a Sega Dreamcast. The game called House of the Dead can use 2 light guns
and it is a very fun game indeed. There are probably more for the Dreamcast
than that but I can't think of any.
Joshua Gustafson <jo...@timsh.dhs.org> wrote in message
news:mHze7.972$P15.9...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
badguy
light gun games, if you want something different, try Time Crisis or Point Blank
on the PSX or wait for the 2 player Time Crisis 2 on the PS2
Bent Leads
> As far as other light-gun systems go, do you have any specific system in
> mind? I asked about the NES, simply because it's the only system for which
> I have _one_ light gun, let alone two, and it's also the only system on
> which I've ever actually played a light-gun game. :-) I'd be very open to
> suggestions, though, if anyone knows of other systems with good multiplayer
> light-gun games.
I have lightguns for a lot of systems. I guess you could say that I
like these kinds of games! I figured that the projector would accept
input from any of them but thanks for confirming it. I'm mainly
wondering if the guns would work with it. Or do they work just like
the NES does?
As for systems, I have them for NES, SNES, Genesis/SegaCD, Saturn,
Dreamcast, and Playstation. Nothing is out yet for PS2 that I know of
and none for N64, either.
NES, we covered that already. I'm envious of your setup!
SNES, my superscope with Battleclash was fun. Not much after that. I
don't evne know if you could get a superscope anymore, probably
somewhere.
Genesis/SegaCD, Lethal Enforcers 1 and 2 are fun, I think 2 only came
out on cart. I really like Mad Dog McCree for SegaCD, but some parts
are really pixelated. Full motion video wasn't that great back then.
Still, the game was cool. There is also Terminator 2, but you
actually need a different gun for it, and it's really not that good,
either. I can't really recommend any of this and the SegaCD would
probably too much trouble, even if you found a good one.
Based upon games alone, Saturn would get one of my highest
recommendations. Not only are the games fun, but there are several
good ones: Virtua Cop, Virtua Cop 2, House of the Dead, and Area 51 (I
think there is another Atari shooter called Maximum Force, which is
similar to Area 51). There are a few others, like Diehard Trilogy,
which has two great non-lightgun games and one lousy lightgun game.
There are also some others that are import only that aren't very good.
Getting the Saturn shouldn't be too hard. Not sure about the games
or guns, though. I'm pretty sure the US version of House of the Dead
is very hard to find.
Playstation shooters should be easier to find. There is Time Crisis
2, which is out now (with or without the Guncon lightgun). I think
it's only for one player. The first Time Crisis is also only for one
player, for sure. There are three editions of an arcade shooting game
called Point Blank 1-3, mostly mini-games, somewhat like the old NES
games. They are fun but you will probably get tired of them by the
time you are done with the first, or at most the second one. I
believe Area 51 and Maximum Force also came out for Playstation.
There is one with a fantasy setting called Elemental Gearbolt, but
this game can be frustratingly hard, and I recall is also only for one
player. Diehard Trilogy's lightgun game is a little better for
Playstation, but not much. Don't get Project Horned Owl or Judge
Dredd, either, because they are awful. Like I said, most of these
should be fairly easy to find at least used, and lightguns are
everywhere. Same with the Playstation itself, of course! But the
games aren't in the same league as Saturn Virtua Cop 1 & 2/House of
the Dead, even one player, and when you factor in the two player,
forget it.
The absolute easiest to get is Dreamcast. There are only 4 games for
it in the US, but they are all on the store shelves right now. House
of the Dead 2, Sega Smash Pack (contains Virtua Cop 2), Confidential
Mission, and Death Crimson OX. The graphics on all of these blows
away the 32-bit games above and all are for 2 players. Death Crimson
OX is the weakest of them -- the rest were made by Sega and are really
great. Lightguns are in abundance everywhere, at least used. Sega's
gun is only for sale as an import but don't get it -- Sega programmed
it out of the US releases so it doesn't work here. Any of the others
should work, but I'd recommend the Mad Catz Fazor. It works well and
is fairly solid. I've heard that some of the cheaper guns, are well,
cheap, and fall apart easily, but don't know that first hand. The
games are all $20 new except the Smash Pack. The Dreamcast itself is
$80 new or $50 used, in most places. I think you'll find a lot of
other great stuff for it, too, if you're interested. You have to try
Typing of the Dead, at least, that game is too funny! If not, the
lightgun games are really great on their own. This is the easiest to
get, probably the cheapest total package, and has far better graphics
than all the rest, too.
Isaac Kuo
>the problem is the DC light gun games don't play any different from the 8-bit
>light gun games, if you want something different, try Time Crisis or Point Blank
>on the PSX or wait for the 2 player Time Crisis 2 on the PS2
Ignore this fanboy troll.
Anyway, getting back to questions asked in this thread:
A CRT projector will work with just about any light gun game.
The key is that it uses a CRT (Cathode Ray Tube). Basically,
this means it works the same way as a normal TV as far as a
light gun is concerned. LCD projectors and flatscreen displays
will NOT typically work with light gun games.
Most light guns depend upon the way a TV display is actually
drawn in one spot at a time--the dot being displayed scans
from left to right very fast line by line from top to bottom.
The light gun itself merely has a light sensor "aimed" directly
in front. By detecting the timing of the signals it receives,
the game console can deduce where it's pointed. (Some calibration
is required due to differences in time delays depending upon
the exact TV or CRT projector used.)
The NES light gun does NOT work this way. It's a uses a less
sophisticated concept. Rather than keeping track of the
split-second timing of when the gun detects light, the NES
hardware merely detects whether or not there is a signal.
When the trigger is pressed, it blanks the screen black except
for a white square where the target is. If light is detected,
you score a hit. If not, no hit. If there's more than one
target, it will do this one target at a time. One side effect
of this unsophisticated system is that you can use LCD displays
and projectors. Another side effect is that you can always
hit 100% of the time just by pointing the light gun at a light
bulb.
As for other consoles, the Saturn has The House of the Dead and
Virtua Cop 1/2. The graphics are dated, but they're still
fun and you'll pick them up really cheap if you can find them.
Note that a lot of third party light guns work with both
Saturn and Playstation.
Most Playstation light gun games are unfortunately 1 player
only, but Elemental Gearbolt is quite impressive. Elemental
Gearbolt has a unique theme--it's set in a beautifal fantasy
world where the two players are magical fairies. Be warned,
though--the game is VERY DIFFICULT. We never made it past
the second boss.
Dreamcast The House of the Dead 2 is a good arcade port
with excellent graphics and the same fast paced action as
the first one. However, The Typing of the Dead--which is
based on THotD2--is actually a superior game! It has more
varied (and hilarious) action as well as more modes of play.
Even though you asked about light gun games, there's no way
I can mention THotD2 without recommending two DC keyboards
and The Typing of the Dead over it.
Isaac Kuo
badguy
> As for other consoles, the Saturn has The House of the Dead and
> Virtua Cop 1/2. The graphics are dated, but they're still
> fun and you'll pick them up really cheap if you can find them.
> Note that a lot of third party light guns work with both
> Saturn and Playstation.
the gameplay in those games are also outdated
> Dreamcast The House of the Dead 2 is a good arcade port
> with excellent graphics and the same fast paced action as
> the first one. However, The Typing of the Dead--which is
> based on THotD2--is actually a superior game! It has more
> varied (and hilarious) action as well as more modes of play.
> Even though you asked about light gun games, there's no way
> I can mention THotD2 without recommending two DC keyboards
> and The Typing of the Dead over it.
yes it looks nice, but again the gameplay is outdated, I suggest hunting down a copy
of Time Crisis if you want a light gun game that's actually different
Isaac Kuo
>Playstation shooters should be easier to find. There is Time Crisis
>2, which is out now (with or without the Guncon lightgun). I think
>it's only for one player.
Yes, only one player. Two player wouldn't really work, except
perhaps with two Playstations set up with two screens. The
arcade game uses two separate screens for the two players and
their views are often very different (e.g. facing each other
from opposite sides of the target zone).
>There is one with a fantasy setting called Elemental Gearbolt, but
>this game can be frustratingly hard, and I recall is also only for one
>player.
No, it's two player. And with two players...it's still
frustratingly hard! But it's such a unique light gun game and
quite beautiful...it's worth at least a rental just to see
what all the fuss is about.
Isaac Kuo
Bent Leads
> Isaac Kuo wrote:
>
> > As for other consoles, the Saturn has The House of the Dead and
> > Virtua Cop 1/2. The graphics are dated, but they're still
> > fun and you'll pick them up really cheap if you can find them.
> > Note that a lot of third party light guns work with both
> > Saturn and Playstation.
>
> the gameplay in those games are also outdated
Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't think that they
are dated at all. A lot of arcades still have these games because
they offer similar gameplay to the latest gun games.
But the thread was started by someone looking for NES lightgun games.
Even those that think Saturn's games are dated can recognize they are
more advanced than games like Duck Hunt on the NES. The NES games are
fun classics but you won't find their arcade counterparts in very many
arcades today, if any.
>
> > Dreamcast The House of the Dead 2 is a good arcade port
> > with excellent graphics and the same fast paced action as
> > the first one. However, The Typing of the Dead--which is
> > based on THotD2--is actually a superior game! It has more
> > varied (and hilarious) action as well as more modes of play.
> > Even though you asked about light gun games, there's no way
> > I can mention THotD2 without recommending two DC keyboards
> > and The Typing of the Dead over it.
>
> yes it looks nice, but again the gameplay is outdated, I suggest hunting down a copy
> of Time Crisis if you want a light gun game that's actually different
I have Time Crisis. What's so different about it? The timer? The
fact that you can duck? I'll grant you that. But does it have
justice shots or specific body-hit combos? Does it have zombies with
specific body parts and varying levels of damage? Does it offer
multiple characters with different abilities/weapons? Yeah, we both
know that it doesn't. In my opinion, there's nothing cooler than
blasting a zombie to bits, one piece at a time.
Time Crisis is different in some ways, but not better. I'd recommend
both games but if you have to choose, Sega's shooters are still the
best out for home play. Time Crisis 2, the arcade version with 2
units/screens, is definitely a step up, but current anti-gun hysteria
kept it out of the US for the home market when it was "the" arcade
shooter. Silent Scope is a nice game but the fact that you can't use
a lightgun it's just not the same as the arcade. Nice game, but just
not as good as games that are actually played with a gun.
4play
is not a 2 player thing.. (but in duckhunt when you play whith 1 duck
1 palyer can move the duck whith the control pad :) (on gameport 1) )
try wild gunman en hogans aley on the 8 bit they rock to :)
Good Luck
worm
Score (for those who don't know what I'm talking about these were 4-player
adapter for the NES).
worm
"4play" <4p...@lkff.nl> worte in message news:3b7f5b7a.968974@news...
badguy
> badguy <bad...@spamme.net> wrote in message news:<3B7C3BF0...@spamme.net>...
> > Isaac Kuo wrote:
> >
> > > As for other consoles, the Saturn has The House of the Dead and
> > > Virtua Cop 1/2. The graphics are dated, but they're still
> > > fun and you'll pick them up really cheap if you can find them.
> > > Note that a lot of third party light guns work with both
> > > Saturn and Playstation.
> >
> > the gameplay in those games are also outdated
>
> Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't think that they
> are dated at all. A lot of arcades still have these games because
> they offer similar gameplay to the latest gun games.
not really, Time Crisis changed the way gun games are played
> But the thread was started by someone looking for NES lightgun games.
> Even those that think Saturn's games are dated can recognize they are
> more advanced than games like Duck Hunt on the NES. The NES games are
> fun classics but you won't find their arcade counterparts in very many
> arcades today, if any.
more advanced graphics but like I said the gameplay hasn't in the Saturn games haven't
changed much from the NES games
> > > Dreamcast The House of the Dead 2 is a good arcade port
> > > with excellent graphics and the same fast paced action as
> > > the first one. However, The Typing of the Dead--which is
> > > based on THotD2--is actually a superior game! It has more
> > > varied (and hilarious) action as well as more modes of play.
> > > Even though you asked about light gun games, there's no way
> > > I can mention THotD2 without recommending two DC keyboards
> > > and The Typing of the Dead over it.
> >
> > yes it looks nice, but again the gameplay is outdated, I suggest hunting down a copy
> > of Time Crisis if you want a light gun game that's actually different
>
> I have Time Crisis. What's so different about it? The timer? The
> fact that you can duck? I'll grant you that.
the gameplay in light gun games were stagnant until Namco introduced a duck button in time
Crisis
> But does it have
> justice shots or specific body-hit combos? Does it have zombies with
> specific body parts and varying levels of damage? Does it offer
> multiple characters with different abilities/weapons? Yeah, we both
> know that it doesn't. In my opinion, there's nothing cooler than
> blasting a zombie to bits, one piece at a time.
its still the same old stand there like a dead duck and shoot at the objects before they
get you, besides Sega ripped the shoot the specific body parts gameplay off Nintendo's
Battleclash and Metal Combat
> Time Crisis is different in some ways, but not better.
nope, its superior
> I'd recommend
> both games but if you have to choose, Sega's shooters are still the
> best out for home play.
they're not, they don't play any different from old light gun games
> Time Crisis 2, the arcade version with 2
> units/screens, is definitely a step up, but current anti-gun hysteria
> kept it out of the US for the home market when it was "the" arcade
> shooter.
yes its called timing and waiting for the right opportunity to release your product,
something Sega apparently never quite got the hang of
> Silent Scope is a nice game but the fact that you can't use
> a lightgun it's just not the same as the arcade. Nice game, but just
> not as good as games that are actually played with a gun.
and that is also a problem with the Sega games
mnemonic
HARDLY be considered innovative. about the only thing i'll lend to Namco is
their synchronised light-guns, which offer more consistent accuracy over
other light-gun solutions. in the end, though, Project Titan proved that the
gameplay in the TC series becomes JUST as repetitive as any other shooter.
"rail gameplay" is just too limited.
i own HOTD as well as TC, and i'll certainly buy the PS2 rehash of TC2, but
take it from someone who owns and has played BOTH EXTENSIVELY: you will find
enjoyment in either game. both have their limitations, and they can't really
be compared. that'd be ignorant. example: comparing the Resident Evil series
to Metal Gear Solid is ridiculous. they control different, have different
themes, etc... in this same respect comparing HOTD to TC is equally silly.
they're two different games, with different agendas. about the only feature
they share is the gun controller.
abe m.
badguy
> Time Crisis' "duck" feature is BEYOND ho-hum. it's fine, but by now, it can
> HARDLY be considered innovative. about the only thing i'll lend to Namco is
> their synchronised light-guns, which offer more consistent accuracy over
> other light-gun solutions.
not innovative? whatever, just wait til Sega copies the duck feature
> in the end, though, Project Titan proved that the
> gameplay in the TC series becomes JUST as repetitive as any other shooter.
> "rail gameplay" is just too limited.
and comparing Project Titan to TC is ignorant as well since they were made by
different teams
> i own HOTD as well as TC, and i'll certainly buy the PS2 rehash of TC2, but
> take it from someone who owns and has played BOTH EXTENSIVELY: you will find
> enjoyment in either game. both have their limitations, and they can't really
> be compared. that'd be ignorant. example: comparing the Resident Evil series
> to Metal Gear Solid is ridiculous. they control different, have different
> themes, etc... in this same respect comparing HOTD to TC is equally silly.
> they're two different games, with different agendas. about the only feature
> they share is the gun controller.
and TC has a "duck" feature while HOTD sticks to the same old stand there like
dead duck formula that light gun games have been stuck in since games as old as
operation wolf
Bent Leads
> not really, Time Crisis changed the way gun games are played
Not really. If you could "duck" as long as you wanted to, then I
would grant you that. It's really no different from the non-"ducking"
games. You have a limited amount of time to shoot the bad guys before
you lose. You still follow a set path. If the bad guys always shot
you when you were uncovered, it might be different. By your logic,
House of the Dead, Confidential Mission, Silent Scope, and the Sega
arcade machine-gun game (can't remember the name) changed the way gun
games are played, too.
The only lightgun game that I've seen that is truly different from the
standard formula is Resident Evil Survivor. It's a lousy game,
though, and the gun doesn't work in the US version.
> the gameplay in light gun games were stagnant until Namco introduced a duck button in time
> Crisis
Not at all, the Sega arcade game with the machine guns (again, can't
remember the name) was more advanced than Time Crisis.
> its still the same old stand there like a dead duck and shoot at the objects before they
No, it's based upon a time limit. Shoot the guys before the timer
runs out and they shoot you. Time Crisis is no different. I suppose
if you could duck forever then it would be.
> get you, besides Sega ripped the shoot the specific body parts gameplay off Nintendo's
> Battleclash and Metal Combat
So then you agree with me, it's more advanced than the original
request, the NES lightgun games.
>
>
> > Time Crisis is different in some ways, but not better.
>
> nope, its superior
Your opinion. Besides, it's hardly a two player game like he was
asking for. Like I said, different, not better.
> > Time Crisis 2, the arcade version with 2
> > units/screens, is definitely a step up, but current anti-gun hysteria
> > kept it out of the US for the home market when it was "the" arcade
> > shooter.
>
> yes its called timing and waiting for the right opportunity to release your product,
> something Sega apparently never quite got the hang of
>
I guess that's why Namco/Sony and Nintendo haven't brought out a good
lightgun game for years now. They'd rather dissapoint the consumer.
Plus, rather than releasing Time Crisis 2 with link cable support and
2 player mode, Sony removed link cable support altogether and Namco
released Time Crisis Project Titan, a single player game, for
Playstation 1. They also continue to drum out lackluster sequels of
Point Blank. Makes perfect sense.
>
> > Silent Scope is a nice game but the fact that you can't use
> > a lightgun it's just not the same as the arcade. Nice game, but just
> > not as good as games that are actually played with a gun.
>
> and that is also a problem with the Sega games
Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
Silent Scope can't.
mnemonic
HOTD used it, you'd probably be on here bitching that it ripped off TC, or
otherwise. just get over it: different games play in different ways (ie:
some use a duck feature, some don't; some have a secondary weapon, while
others do not). if they didn't, they'd all be the same game, which is no fun
for anyone.. don't be so close-minded, badguy.
abe m.
thebadguy
> badguy <bad...@spamme.net> wrote in message news:<3B7F45D0...@spamme.net>...
> > not really, Time Crisis changed the way gun games are played
>
> Not really. If you could "duck" as long as you wanted to, then I
> would grant you that. It's really no different from the non-"ducking"
> games. You have a limited amount of time to shoot the bad guys before
> you lose. You still follow a set path. If the bad guys always shot
> you when you were uncovered, it might be different.
nope, its different in that you can finally dodge shots in a light gun game, before that all gun
games played the same way, you just stood there like a dead duck
> By your logic,
> House of the Dead, Confidential Mission, Silent Scope, and the Sega
> arcade machine-gun game (can't remember the name) changed the way gun
> games are played, too.
that's your (il)logic, not mine
> > the gameplay in light gun games were stagnant until Namco introduced a duck button in time
> > Crisis
>
> Not at all, the Sega arcade game with the machine guns (again, can't
> remember the name) was more advanced than Time Crisis.
nah there was a game even before that but like you I can't remember the name
> > its still the same old stand there like a dead duck and shoot at the objects before they
>
> No, it's based upon a time limit. Shoot the guys before the timer
> runs out and they shoot you. Time Crisis is no different. I suppose
> if you could duck forever then it would be.
can you dodge shots in other games? nope
> > get you, besides Sega ripped the shoot the specific body parts gameplay off Nintendo's
> > Battleclash and Metal Combat
>
> So then you agree with me, it's more advanced than the original
> request, the NES lightgun games.
not at all, you just shoot at specific spots to win, that was already done in NES Hogan's Alley
> > > Time Crisis is different in some ways, but not better.
> >
> > nope, its superior
>
> Your opinion. Besides, it's hardly a two player game like he was
> asking for.
and these aren't NES games like he was asking for either, besides I said to wait for TC2 which
is 2 players
> Like I said, different, not better.
nope, its superior
> > > Time Crisis 2, the arcade version with 2
> > > units/screens, is definitely a step up, but current anti-gun hysteria
> > > kept it out of the US for the home market when it was "the" arcade
> > > shooter.
> >
> > yes its called timing and waiting for the right opportunity to release your product,
> > something Sega apparently never quite got the hang of
> >
>
> I guess that's why Namco/Sony and Nintendo haven't brought out a good
> lightgun game for years now.
there was a backlash against "gun" games after the columbine shooting, companies like Namco/Sony
had the sense to wait, Sega stupidly didn't, hence poor sales of HOTD2
> They'd rather dissapoint the consumer.
yeah, maybe that's why they're all still around and haven't had to drop out of the console
business unlike Sega which has done nothing except dissapoint their consumers for the past 6
years
> lus, rather than releasing Time Crisis 2 with link cable support and
> 2 player mode, Sony removed link cable support altogether and Namco
> released Time Crisis Project Titan, a single player game, for
> Playstation 1.
Namco already said they couldn't do a good port of TC2 on the PSX, they're doing the TC fans a
favor by releasing a upgraded version of it on the PS2 rather releasing a stripped down verison
of it on the PSX
> They also continue to drum out lackluster sequels of
> Point Blank. Makes perfect sense.
except that Point Blank is a fun game, if you don't like it that's your problem
> > > Silent Scope is a nice game but the fact that you can't use
> > > a lightgun it's just not the same as the arcade. Nice game, but just
> > > not as good as games that are actually played with a gun.
> >
> > and that is also a problem with the Sega games
>
> Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
> Silent Scope can't.
except that they don't come with one
Isaac Kuo
I'll repeat my advice--ignore the troll "badguy". He's a
stereotypical anti-Sega Playstation fanboy. Do a little search
on the Sega/Sony newsgroups for him to see what I mean.
You're just wasting your time on him. Pigs will fly before he
acknowledges that anything remotely related to Sega is any good.
Even Tyrone/Omarichu/John Thorenson incredibly has a good thing
to say about one or two Sega games (which is extremely bizarre
considering how hilariously fanboy he is).
Isaac Kuo
mnemonic
leave the thread?
abe m.
Bent Leads
> > Not at all, the Sega arcade game with the machine guns (again, can't
> > remember the name) was more advanced than Time Crisis.
>
> nah there was a game even before that but like you I can't remember the name
That doesn't sound too convincing of an example to me. Even so, you
are basically saying that there was something before Time Crisis, just
like I am saying. The game I'm specifically thinking of may be
different than the one that you are referring to, but the point is
that Time Crisis wasn't the "first" at changing the "formula", either.
> can you dodge shots in other games? nope
Can you shoot off limbs in Time Crisis? Nope. Can you play minigames
in Time Crisis? Nope.
Like I said, different, not better. By your logic, only games that
have a "duck" button should be popular. Silent Scope came out after
Time Crisis, but by your definition, it's no good.
> not at all, you just shoot at specific spots to win, that was already done in NES Hogan's Alley
>
Same as Time Crisis. You shoot at specific spots to win. You don't
win hiding behind something, especially when you still have a time
limit that must be met or you fail.
> and these aren't NES games like he was asking for either, besides I said to wait for TC2 which
> is 2 players
Actually, he did ask for suggestions in a follow up.
> there was a backlash against "gun" games after the columbine shooting, companies like Namco/Sony
> had the sense to wait, Sega stupidly didn't, hence poor sales of HOTD2
I doubt there were any videogame players that would have preferred
that they wait to release it in the US. Sega's mistake was in not
releasing the gun -- releasing it on time was not a mistake, I'm sure
no videogame player wanted to wait. Check out Silent Scope for Sony's
system, they did the same thing, didn't they? So by your logic, they
made the same "stupid" mistake for Sony's system.
> yeah, maybe that's why they're all still around and haven't had to drop out of the console
> business unlike Sega which has done nothing except dissapoint their consumers for the past 6
> years
Sega released their lightgun games. That's not disappointing the
consumer. Sony delayed or cancelled their lightgun games. That is
disappointing the consumer. Why would it be more disappointing to
have games available than not available? I guess you have more fun
"not playing" games than playing them.
> Namco already said they couldn't do a good port of TC2 on the PSX, they're doing the TC fans a
> favor by releasing a upgraded version of it on the PS2 rather releasing a stripped down verison
> of it on the PSX
Again, not releasing games. Have fun "not playing" them.
> except that Point Blank is a fun game, if you don't like it that's your problem
>
Yeah, but it's the same game for the third time. Isn't repetition
what you were complaining about before?
> > Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
> > Silent Scope can't.
>
> except that they don't come with one
That's your problem. They are for sale everywhere. Sega's games plus
the lightgun are no more expensive than Time Crisis or Time Crisis 2
with the lightgun. In fact, you can probably buy a pair of lightguns
and a game for Sega at the price of Time Crisis plus one gun. No
matter how much you spend, you can't play Time Crisis with two people.
thebadderguy
> thebadguy <theb...@spamme.com> wrote in message news:<3B813C05...@spamme.com>...
> > > Not at all, the Sega arcade game with the machine guns (again, can't
> > > remember the name) was more advanced than Time Crisis.
> >
> > nah there was a game even before that but like you I can't remember the name
>
> That doesn't sound too convincing of an example to me. Even so, you
> are basically saying that there was something before Time Crisis, just
> like I am saying. The game I'm specifically thinking of may be
> different than the one that you are referring to,
I was being being sarcastic, if your game exists, then name it
> but the point is
> that Time Crisis wasn't the "first" at changing the "formula", either.
the fact remains, gun games all played the same until TC added a duck button
> > can you dodge shots in other games? nope
>
> Can you shoot off limbs in Time Crisis? Nope.
difference is you're shooting people, not zombies
> Can you play minigames
> in Time Crisis? Nope.
if you want minigames, Point Blank is nothing but minigames
> Like I said, different, not better. By your logic, only games that
> have a "duck" button should be popular.
nope they're all the same, TC is the only one that plays different
> Silent Scope came out after
> Time Crisis, but by your definition, it's no good.
that's your definition, not mine
> > not at all, you just shoot at specific spots to win, that was already done in NES Hogan's Alley
> >
>
> Same as Time Crisis. You shoot at specific spots to win. You don't
> win hiding behind something, especially when you still have a time
> limit that must be met or you fail.
except that you have the option of dodging shots, in gun games before that you just stood there and
get shot at
> > and these aren't NES games like he was asking for either, besides I said to wait for TC2 which
> > is 2 players
>
> Actually, he did ask for suggestions in a follow up.
and I said TC2 which is 2 players
> > there was a backlash against "gun" games after the columbine shooting, companies like Namco/Sony
> > had the sense to wait, Sega stupidly didn't, hence poor sales of HOTD2
>
> I doubt there were any videogame players that would have preferred
> that they wait to release it in the US.
I doubt these "dedicated" gun fans would've wanted a stripped down version either
> Sega's mistake was in not
> releasing the gun -- releasing it on time was not a mistake, I'm sure
> no videogame player wanted to wait. Check out Silent Scope for Sony's
> system, they did the same thing, didn't they? So by your logic, they
> made the same "stupid" mistake for Sony's system.
yeah Konami did make the same "stupid" mistake and guess what? people didn't buy it either and now
they're dumping it at a discounted price of $20, I'm not a fanboy like you with that my console can do
no wrong attitude
> > yeah, maybe that's why they're all still around and haven't had to drop out of the console
> > business unlike Sega which has done nothing except dissapoint their consumers for the past 6
> > years
>
> Sega released their lightgun games. That's not disappointing the
> consumer.
yeah a lightgun game without a gun
> Sony delayed or cancelled their lightgun games. That is
> disappointing the consumer.
and these games would be?
> Why would it be more disappointing to have games available than not available? I guess you have
> more fun"not playing" games than playing them.
its not, thats why the DC is disappointing because it won't have anymore games available for it
> > Namco already said they couldn't do a good port of TC2 on the PSX, they're doing the TC fans a
> > favor by releasing a upgraded version of it on the PS2 rather releasing a stripped down verison
> > of it on the PSX
>
> Again, not releasing games. Have fun "not playing" them.
and there won't be anymore games released on the DC, have fun "not playing" them
> > except that Point Blank is a fun game, if you don't like it that's your problem
> >
>
> Yeah, but it's the same game for the third time. Isn't repetition
> what you were complaining about before?
except that repetition is not a problem in Point Blank since it is collection of different minigames
> > > Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
> > > Silent Scope can't.
> >
> > except that they don't come with one
>
> That's your problem. They are for sale everywhere. Sega's games plus
> the lightgun are no more expensive than Time Crisis or Time Crisis 2
> with the lightgun. In fact, you can probably buy a pair of lightguns and a game for Sega at the
> price of Time Crisis plus one gun.
not really, when they were released TC with the guncon was only $50, HOTD2 was $40+$20 for the gun
> No
> matter how much you spend, you can't play Time Crisis with two people.
but you can with TC2 and you can even set it up on separate TVs just like the arcade
mnemonic
abe m.
"thebadderguy" <thebad...@spamme.com> wrote in message
news:3B828753...@spamme.com...
Bent Leads
Gun Blade NY. You can actually direct the flow of the game.
Like I said, yours doesn't exits. Sarcastic? Yeah, right.
> > Can you shoot off limbs in Time Crisis? Nope.
>
> difference is you're shooting people, not zombies
So you do admit that there is a difference. Case closed.
> > Silent Scope came out after
> > Time Crisis, but by your definition, it's no good.
>
> that's your definition, not mine
Actually, it's yours, not mine. You are saying that anything that
doesn't allow you to "duck" is no good. Silent Scope does not allow
you to duck. I think it's good.
> > > and these aren't NES games like he was asking for either, besides I said to wait for TC2 which
> > > is 2 players
> >
> > Actually, he did ask for suggestions in a follow up.
>
> and I said TC2 which is 2 players
Oh, I see, we are counting fantasy suggestions, too. Time Crisis 2 is
not an option, unless you are telling him to go buy an arcade unit.
> I doubt these "dedicated" gun fans would've wanted a stripped down version either
What stripped down? It's not like you can't walk into the store even
today and buy a lightgun to play House of the Dead.
> yeah Konami did make the same "stupid" mistake and guess what? people didn't buy it either and now
> they're dumping it at a discounted price of $20, I'm not a fanboy like you with that my console can do
> no wrong attitude
I have already said that Sega not releasing the gun was a mistake, but
not the timing of the release. It's a moot point now (and then)
because their are plenty of lightguns available in spite of Sega's
mistake.
> > Sega released their lightgun games. That's not disappointing the
> > consumer.
>
> yeah a lightgun game without a gun
But the point remains that there are plenty of lightguns for DC
available. Releasing no game at all is disappointing. Releasing a
game when there are other lightguns on the market is not
disappointing.
>
>
> > Sony delayed or cancelled their lightgun games. That is
> > disappointing the consumer.
>
> and these games would be?
Time Crisis 2 is a perfect example. And how many years did it take
them to even release another Time Crisis? And it's still a single
player game.
> its not, thats why the DC is disappointing because it won't have anymore games available for it
>
If you can't stick to the topic, then this discussion thread is over,
as far as I'm concerned. You can't seem to present a logical case so
you change the subject.
>
> > > Namco already said they couldn't do a good port of TC2 on the PSX, they're doing the TC fans a
> > > favor by releasing a upgraded version of it on the PS2 rather releasing a stripped down verison
> > > of it on the PSX
How are they doing PSX owners a favor by not releasing lightgun games?
That's like Nintendo saying they are doing PSX owners a favor by not
releasing their games for PSX. If you have to buy another system
(regardless if it's the same company or not), then you aren't doing
any favors. The fact is, they dropped the ball and now are trying to
say they are doing everyone a favor.
BTW, weren't you just asking before what lightgun games got canned?
Now you are here using this as an argument for your point. And you
have the nerve to call me a fanboy. Sounds to me like you are saying
that your favorites can do no wrong. That when they give us nothing,
they are doing us all a big favor because they know what we want
better than we do.
> >
> > Again, not releasing games. Have fun "not playing" them.
>
> and there won't be anymore games released on the DC, have fun "not playing" them
>
>
> > > except that Point Blank is a fun game, if you don't like it that's your problem
> > >
Look, you are the one saying that games that don't allow you to duck
are no good. You are the one saying that all other games are just
repetition, not me. But here you are defending the Point Blank
series, which doesn't allow you to duck.
> >
> > Yeah, but it's the same game for the third time. Isn't repetition
> > what you were complaining about before?
>
> except that repetition is not a problem in Point Blank since it is collection of different minigames
>
But by your definition, any game that doesn't allow you to duck is no
good. It's just standing still, shooting at things. And since Point
Blank didn't invent shooting mini-games, by your logic, it's just a
rip-off of an older game and therefore no good. Just like Time Crisis
ripping off branching paths, right?
>
> > > > Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
> > > > Silent Scope can't.
> > >
> > > except that they don't come with one
> >
> > That's your problem. They are for sale everywhere. Sega's games plus
> > the lightgun are no more expensive than Time Crisis or Time Crisis 2
> > with the lightgun. In fact, you can probably buy a pair of lightguns and a game for Sega at the
> > price of Time Crisis plus one gun.
>
> not really, when they were released TC with the guncon was only $50, HOTD2 was $40+$20 for the gun
>
So what? We are talking about today. The guy was asking for
suggestions of games to buy now. Not years ago, and not some time in
the future when who knows what will be available.
>
> > No
> > matter how much you spend, you can't play Time Crisis with two people.
>
> but you can with TC2 and you can even set it up on separate TVs just like the arcade
First of all, Time Crisis 2 is not available yet. I would never
recommend that anyone buy a system for a game that is not released,
period. While like you, I'm willing to bet the game will be released,
there is no way to know for sure. There's also no way to know what
kind of gun support will be available in the US. Namco has not
confirmed any of that yet.
Second, by your logic, if the game doesn't come with it, well, darn
it, it's no good. Namco hasn't confirmed that the gun will come with
it. Shoot, I guess if that happens then you're out of luck while the
rest of us still have some options.
Third, the whole two-systems with i-link is not a good suggestion for
the original poster. He's talking about using it with a TV projector.
I doubt he has two projectors. I suppose there will be split-screen,
too, but it's just not as good to play a light-gun game with half the
screen. Still, if he has a PS2, I would recommend it if it does
indeed have that. We won't know until the game is actually released,
though.
Finally, if he does decide to wait, then he is left with only really
one game that fits his criteria of 2 players and your criteria of a
"duck" button. That's a lot of money to spend for one game.
I guess that's the end of the discussion for me. Once you can't
present your argument, you just call me a "fanboy" or change the
subject. I can't have a reasonable discussion with illogic like that.
thebaddestguy
> thebadderguy <thebad...@spamme.com> wrote in message news:<3B828753...@spamme.com>...
> > I was being being sarcastic, if your game exists, then name it
>
> Gun Blade NY. You can actually direct the flow of the game.
>
> Like I said, yours doesn't exits. Sarcastic? Yeah, right.
that's your revolutionary game? hope you know that feature was already done in SNES Battleclash and even in
Gotcha on the NES, so unless you can come up with something, case closed
> > > Can you shoot off limbs in Time Crisis? Nope.
> >
> > difference is you're shooting people, not zombies
>
> So you do admit that there is a difference. Case closed.
this was never even a case since my complaint against other gun games was that they all played the same not
because they used different graphics, and since you've been unable to prove it, case closed
> > > Silent Scope came out after
> > > Time Crisis, but by your definition, it's no good.
> >
> > that's your definition, not mine
>
> Actually, it's yours, not mine. You are saying that anything that
> doesn't allow you to "duck" is no good. Silent Scope does not allow
> you to duck. I think it's good.
again I never said that, so unless you can provide proff, case closed
> > > > and these aren't NES games like he was asking for either, besides I said to wait for TC2 which
> > > > is 2 players
> > >
> > > Actually, he did ask for suggestions in a follow up.
> >
> > and I said TC2 which is 2 players
>
> Oh, I see, we are counting fantasy suggestions, too. Time Crisis 2 is
> not an option, unless you are telling him to go buy an arcade unit.
does this look like a fantasy?
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/previews/preview.pl?sys=ps2&game=timecrisis2
case closed
> > I doubt these "dedicated" gun fans would've wanted a stripped down version either
>
> What stripped down? It's not like you can't walk into the store even
> today and buy a lightgun to play House of the Dead.
> > yeah Konami did make the same "stupid" mistake and guess what? people didn't buy it either and now
> > they're dumping it at a discounted price of $20, I'm not a fanboy like you with that my console can do
> > no wrong attitude
>
> I have already said that Sega not releasing the gun was a mistake, but
> not the timing of the release. It's a moot point now (and then)
> because their are plenty of lightguns available in spite of Sega's
> mistake.
only because no one is buying them, case closed
> > > Sega released their lightgun games. That's not disappointing the
> > > consumer.
> >
> > yeah a lightgun game without a gun
>
> But the point remains that there are plenty of lightguns for DC
> available. Releasing no game at all is disappointing. Releasing a
> game when there are other lightguns on the market is not
> disappointing.
so how disappointing it is when no games at all are released? case closed
> >
> >
> > > Sony delayed or cancelled their lightgun games. That is
> > > disappointing the consumer.
> >
> > and these games would be?
>
> Time Crisis 2 is a perfect example. And how many years did it take
> them to even release another Time Crisis? And it's still a single
> player game.
except that TC2 is a 2 player game and you can even hook up 2 TVs and 2 PS2s if you want the full arcade
experience
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/previews/preview.pl?sys=ps2&game=timecrisis2
case closed
> > its not, thats why the DC is disappointing because it won't have anymore games available for it
> >
>
> If you can't stick to the topic, then this discussion thread is over,
> as far as I'm concerned. You can't seem to present a logical case so
> you change the subject.
this thread has been over ever since Sega fanboys diverted the subject from NES games into a praise Sega
games thread
> >
> > > > Namco already said they couldn't do a good port of TC2 on the PSX, they're doing the TC fans a
> > > > favor by releasing a upgraded version of it on the PS2 rather releasing a stripped down verison
> > > > of it on the PSX
>
> How are they doing PSX owners a favor by not releasing lightgun games?
Namco did TC2 fans a favor by waiting for a system that could properly handle TC2 instead of releasing a
strip down version of it , case closed
> That's like Nintendo saying they are doing PSX owners a favor by not
> releasing their games for PSX.
a PSX version of TC2 would've been another 1 player game and they wouldn't be doing PSX owners any favors
since it would play no differently from TC, wait a minute, didn't you just complain about that for Project
Titan? you just proved my point, case closed
> If you have to buy another system
> (regardless if it's the same company or not), then you aren't doing
> any favors. The fact is, they dropped the ball and now are trying to
> say they are doing everyone a favor.
nope, they wouldn't be doing any favors if they made Guncon incompatible with the PS2, but since it is, case
closed
> BTW, weren't you just asking before what lightgun games got canned?
and you still haven't given me an answer, which games got canned? you can't say Project Titan since it got
released, case closed
> Now you are here using this as an argument for your point. And you
> have the nerve to call me a fanboy. Sounds to me like you are saying
> that your favorites can do no wrong. That when they give us nothing,
> they are doing us all a big favor because they know what we want
> better than we do.
so why would you want TC2 on the PSX when it would've been stripped down? didn't you just complain that
Project Titan is no different from TC? a stripped down port of TC2 on the PSX would've received the same
complaint, Namco is doing us a favor by releasing a faithful port of it on the PS2 rather than releasing a
stripped down port of it on the PSX, the fact that you complained about Project Titan proves they wouldn't
have done us any favors by also releasing a stripped down port of TC2, case closed
> > >
> > > Again, not releasing games. Have fun "not playing" them.
> >
> > and there won't be anymore games released on the DC, have fun "not playing" them
> >
> >
> > > > except that Point Blank is a fun game, if you don't like it that's your problem
> > > >
>
> Look, you are the one saying that games that don't allow you to duck
> are no good. You are the one saying that all other games are just
> repetition, not me. But here you are defending the Point Blank
> series, which doesn't allow you to duck.
I said they don't played any "different", I never said they aren't good, case closed
> > >
> > > Yeah, but it's the same game for the third time. Isn't repetition
> > > what you were complaining about before?
> >
> > except that repetition is not a problem in Point Blank since it is collection of different minigames
> >
>
> But by your definition, any game that doesn't allow you to duck is no
> good. It's just standing still, shooting at things. And since Point
> Blank didn't invent shooting mini-games, by your logic, it's just a
> rip-off of an older game and therefore no good. Just like Time Crisis
> ripping off branching paths, right?
again, please learn how to read, I said they don't play any "different" I never said they weren't good, case
closed
> > > > > Nope, not at all. The Sega games can be played with lightguns.
> > > > > Silent Scope can't.
> > > >
> > > > except that they don't come with one
> > >
> > > That's your problem. They are for sale everywhere. Sega's games plus
> > > the lightgun are no more expensive than Time Crisis or Time Crisis 2
> > > with the lightgun. In fact, you can probably buy a pair of lightguns and a game for Sega at the
> > > price of Time Crisis plus one gun.
> >
> > not really, when they were released TC with the guncon was only $50, HOTD2 was $40+$20 for the gun
> >
>
> So what? We are talking about today. The guy was asking for
> suggestions of games to buy now. Not years ago, and not some time in
> the future when who knows what will be available.
so if you want to compare todays prices, its still much cheaper to buy a NES Zapper or a SNES Superscope
> >
> > > No
> > > matter how much you spend, you can't play Time Crisis with two people.
> >
> > but you can with TC2 and you can even set it up on separate TVs just like the arcade
>
> First of all, Time Crisis 2 is not available yet. I would never
> recommend that anyone buy a system for a game that is not released,
> period. While like you, I'm willing to bet the game will be released,
> there is no way to know for sure. There's also no way to know what
> kind of gun support will be available in the US. Namco has not
> confirmed any of that yet.
except that its coming out very soon and it also supports the PSX Guncon
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/previews/preview.pl?sys=ps2&game=timecrisis2
case closed
> Second, by your logic, if the game doesn't come with it, well, darn
> it, it's no good. Namco hasn't confirmed that the gun will come with
> it. Shoot, I guess if that happens then you're out of luck while the
> rest of us still have some options.
except that it also supports the PSX Guncon and the Guncon 2
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/previews/preview.pl?sys=ps2&game=timecrisis2
case closed
> Third, the whole two-systems with i-link is not a good suggestion for
> the original poster. He's talking about using it with a TV projector.
> I doubt he has two projectors.
you can always hook one up to a projector hook the other up to a TV, problem solved, case closed
> I suppose there will be split-screen,
> too, but it's just not as good to play a light-gun game with half the
> screen. Still, if he has a PS2, I would recommend it if it does
> indeed have that. We won't know until the game is actually released,
> though.
except that it does have a split screen mode, guess Namco isn't doing us any favor by including all these
extra options eh?
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/previews/preview.pl?sys=ps2&game=timecrisis2
case closed
> Finally, if he does decide to wait, then he is left with only really
> one game that fits his criteria of 2 players and your criteria of a
> "duck" button. That's a lot of money to spend for one game.
that may be the case with the DC because its dead and there will be no more games for it, but not with the
PS2 since there will be more gun games made for it down the road, case closed
> I guess that's the end of the discussion for me. Once you can't
> present your argument, you just call me a "fanboy" or change the
> subject. I can't have a reasonable discussion with illogic like that.
except that I've countered all your arguments and addressed all your TC2 concerns, there's really nothing
more you can do so case closed
mnemonic
made has been completely Time Crisis 2-centric, and for someone labling
everyone else as a fanboy, your FANATICISM over TC2 borders on romance! it
has become evident that no matter how articulately someone levels their
opinion, be it wrong OR right, your primary objective has been to simply
lash out and decry every word.
if you can't tell, these actions negate your ill-written prose entirely.
you've become so one-sided and closed-minded in regard to anyone else's
opinion, that all validity (or credibility, for that matter) of what you
have said has fled LONG AGO. please understand, (and i'm sure i speak for
the majority of readers in these two newsgroups) that no one values your
opinion any longer. why not be "the bigger person", and let this argument
drop? i mean, last i recall, these are NINTENDO newsgroups???? thank you.
abe m.
thebaddestguy
ok I'll drop it, I made my point