What's "really" New in Advantage CA-Visual Objects ?
Eduardo Fernandes
At the moment I see only the 3thy party libraries/classes added to
CA-Visual Objects. Whatæ„€ is new in the essence of VO ? One year
without patches/fix. Why ?
Eduardo
Jamal
I am sure it will include fixes and may be some new features.
Jamal
"Eduardo Fernandes" <edu...@modalsistemas.com.br> wrote in message
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> At the moment I see only the 3thy party libraries/classes added to
> CA-Visual Objects. What´s is new in the essence of VO ? One year
Acácio
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com
Snip [ At the moment I see only the 3thy party libraries/classes added
to
CA-Visual Objects. What´s is new in the essence of VO ? One year
without patches/fix. Why ?]
Fine question Eduardo, Let´s rock and roll in this NG!
Acácio
P.S. Snip is a trade-mark of Phill MacGuinness.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Gary Stark
> P.S. Snip is a trade-mark of Phill MacGuinness.
It's also frequently used by the local moyle. Circumcised gentlemen need
not be concerned. <g>
--
g.
Gary Stark
gst...@RedbacksWeb.com
http://RedbacksWeb.com
Stephen Quinn
> P.S. Snip is a trade-mark of Phill MacGuinness.
Phil's now a BIG MAC??
<g>
Steve Quinn
Geoff Schaller
What's "really" new? Well nothing from that perspective. ...except for the
latest bug fixes and a few new things already announced at a number of
forums already. Hence why its badged as 2.6. However, don't discount the 3rd
party products too quickly. For features we've complained about as missing
from the IDE... we get through VOPP. How many people complain about CA-RET ?
Well now you'll have RP 2.10 - a fine product. Who has complained about DBF
stability with 15+ users? Well, if you don't want to go SQL or ADS you now
have Fortress. Its now possibly bBrowser will get in there... Then there are
the other products announced but perhaps the biggest bonus is adding in the
SDK. The SDK has always been the path to proper use of the GUI classes as
well as IDE toys and tools and handling the rdd's etc.
As is the case of many other VO'ers, I already have the majority of these
3rd party products (although I look forward to Fortress and the shopping
cart stuff), but I will be buying 2.6 to support the product and obviously
to get the latest fixes. I think this alone is worth the $200. But don't
forget that sales of 2.6 will also dictate the amount of effort that goes
into 3.0 and I think this is the greatest goal for us.
Geoff
"Eduardo Fernandes" <edu...@modalsistemas.com.br> wrote in message
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> At the moment I see only the 3thy party libraries/classes added to
> CA-Visual Objects. What´s is new in the essence of VO ? One year
Phil McGuinness
Would you like "Fries" with that..?
and for and extra 50 cents you have a large Coke..
In fact do you how to tell the Clan of Scotsman..?
Easy.. you put you hand up his Kilt and if he has a "quarter pounder".. he
is a MacDonald.
Phil McGuinness
-------------------
"Stephen Quinn" <squ...@brutecom.com.au> wrote in message
news:ab23mb$ekv7c$1...@ID-88745.news.dfncis.de...
Phil McGuinness
I have the majority of the 3rd Party products as well but we know that there
a lots of little fixes required that go back years.
We will now a have a new development team (probably all Golfers and
Gardeners.. because Brian likes Golf and Gardening) who will give us what
the market wants and not some crap we did not want.
The most important thing is a string user and 3rd party market and I know
they will now have a reason to join the crowd..
Well at least we have 3 users right!
Brian knows like a lot of us what is required for daily development and that
is a stable usable product which meets the market as it changes and not 3
years after it has changed.
Phil McGuinness
-----------------
"Geoff Schaller" <geof...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:qr0B8.84818$o66.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Gary Stark
Always thought he was an old burgher.
Stephen Quinn wrote:
--
Eduardo Fernandes
> What's "really" new? Well nothing from that perspective. ...except for the
> latest bug fixes and a few new things already announced at a number of
> forums already.
Do you know about these "bug fixes and a few new things" or they are
top secret ? Can you to relate for us ?
Tank you
Eduardo
Geoff Schaller
At the moment they are not allowed to be distributed because they are still
subject to the rules regarding beta testing by CA. CA, as you know, still
own the product and are still conducting the 2.5c beta. However, I suspect
that GrafXSoft will have a completely different attitude once they formally
takeover.
All I can say at this stage is that the current beta participants are well
aware of the status of the patch and that it was discussed at length with
Brian. Yogesh made a point of telling the UG presidents present at the main
meeting that the key issues would be attended to prior to Brian taking over
the source - so, let us hope that process runs its proper course. John
Parker has also stated that he would do what he could to assist the process.
His input has been invaluable to date.
Geoff
"Eduardo Fernandes" <edu...@modalsistemas.com.br> wrote in message
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com...
Lucio Mario B. Chiessi
But Brian says that "2.5c don't exist"...
Sorry but I don't understand.
Regards
Lucio Chiessi
"Geoff Schaller" <geof...@bigpond.net.au> escreveu na mensagem
news:DhaB8.87180$o66.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Eduardo Fernandes
I be impacient. I´ll hope desirely the VO26 news.
Tank you for your reply.
Eduardo
Ginny Caughey
>One year without patches/fix. Why ?
Because the people in charge of VO no longer cared about it. Now we have new
people in charge of VO.
Ginny
Ginny Caughey
> But Brian says that "2.5c don't exist"...
> Sorry but I don't understand.
This is true. When CA completely controlled VO, there was a big deal about
changing the version number from 2.5 to 2.6 or something like that. What a
version number change meant inside CA was that there had to be new
documentation, a new marketing campaign, etc., and the product owner would be
required to justify spending all that extra money before any work could be done.
What happened with VO several times during its history with CA was that with
each "bug-fix" patch we would also get new features sort of slipped in by the
developers under CA's nose, but they had to continue to keep the product number
the same or CA upper managment would see red flags. For this reason, they talked
about "2.5c" at conferences for over a year and a half, which of course would
include bug fixes but also some new features suce as support for Windows Xp
themes. Anyway, Brian doesn't work for CA so he doesn't have to play these
games. The next version will of course have bug fixes and new features too as
well as 3rd party add ons. I imagine that closer to the release of 2.6 he will
tell us all more details about what will be in there. Until he does, nobody else
who knows would be able to say due to existing non-disclosure agreements with
CA.
Ginny
Geoff Schaller
Just to expand on what Ginny said, from Brian's perspective, there is no
2.5c and this version will never be released. He will release 2.6 but CA
still have VO because it has not yet been formally handed over. This will
take a few months. So from CA's perspective, they have build numbers and
versions still in place. They too will not release 2.5c but from their
perspective, that is what the current build set is called. Does that help?
Geoff
"Lucio Mario B. Chiessi" <lucio....@veloxmail.com.br> wrote in message
news:ab3hj6$ekgcr$1...@ID-132473.news.dfncis.de...
Geoff Schaller
I think you meant to say that you will be "patient" <g>.
But I agree, I also hope the timeframe will be short.
Geoff
"Eduardo Fernandes" <edu...@modalsistemas.com.br> wrote in message
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com...
Lucio Mario B. Chiessi
Your explanation solved my doubt...
Regards from Brazil!
Lucio
"Ginny Caughey" <ginny....@wasteworks.com> escreveu na mensagem
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Lucio Mario B. Chiessi
Thank you so much twice for you and Ginny.
Regards from Brazil!
Lucio
"Geoff Schaller" <geof...@bigpond.net.au> escreveu na mensagem
news:RBiB8.88186$o66.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Vic. d'Hoop
to be called
"CA" anything anymore.
Why don't we go back to "Aspen" ??
I always liked the sound of that...FWIW
Vic
"Eduardo Fernandes" <edu...@modalsistemas.com.br> wrote in message
news:bfce2ddb.02050...@posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> At the moment I see only the 3thy party libraries/classes added to
> CA-Visual Objects. What´s is new in the essence of VO ? One year
> without patches/fix. Why ?
>
> Eduardo
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Geoff Schaller
> Perhaps the biggest "Advantage" to come out of this is that it doesn't
have
> to be called "CA" anything anymore.
Unfortunately it does.
...at least whilst we want to call it Visual Objects. Its part of the deal.
However, CA have not expressly prohibited a name change but if Brian was to
change its name, CA can prevent us using their name on the box. As you can
imagine, there was quite some debate about this at CA World. It seems that
in the land of corporates, especially where Visual Objects is unknown, CA is
not and was a significant factor in many companies allowing VO to be used.
Hence the naming rights are not to be dismissed lightly. Whilst at our level
we may have some gripes at CA, at other levels CA is a big name and therefor
lends credibility where otherwise there might be none.
Geoff
Gary Stark
Sorry, but the product is still owned by CA, and still must bear their name.
"Vic. d'Hoop" wrote:
--
Vic. d'Hoop
Yeh ! I should have known anyway. Were I to own the product, I wouldn't want
to turf out
any possible advantages in the corporate world.
Just me ... being spiteful !
Vic
"Gary Stark" <gst...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com> wrote in message
news:3CD68736...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com...
Brian
>Why don't we go back to "Aspen" ??
I like Aspen as a name too. but........Aspen was the projects code name.
At this point, a name change of the product could only add confusion to an
already under marketed product. The CA name for many companies is an asset.
I've given this a great deal of thought, and have come to the conclusion
that "CA Visual Object" is what the name should remain.
Ginny Caughey
I hopw that means you can drop the "Advantage" part now. I always thought that
was a bad idea and told CA so at the time.
Ginny
"Brian" <sa...@grafxsoft.com> wrote in message
news:EhxB8.39844$tT1.38...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
FDW
Maybe it was 'Dis-Advantage' and already they dropped the 'Dis'-part, Yes
the name sounds better without the (dis)-Advantage ;-)
Frans
"Ginny Caughey" <ginny....@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:ab693o$1ej$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com...
Brian
> I hopw that means you can drop the "Advantage" part now. I always thought
>that was a bad idea and told CA so at the time.
Yes, we can drop "Advantage". IMHO, not one of the best thought out names
for CA Clipper and CA Visual Objects.
Brian
Ginny Caughey
Nope. <g> Good to hear. I thought it could be confusing as well as just too darn
long.
Ginny
"Brian" <sa...@grafxsoft.com> wrote in message
news:rpyB8.39876$tT1.38...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Bill Schuler (ADS)
known product called "Advantage Database Engine" that many if not all
CA-Clipper developers and many CA-VO developers recognize as the Advantage
product.
Bill Schuler
Advantage Database Server
World Wide Sales Manager
Phone (800)235-7576 ext. 6051
(208)322-7575 ext. 6051
Fax (208)327-5006
bi...@extendsys.com
5777 N. Meeker Ave. Boise, ID 83711
http://www.advantagedatabase.com
http://solutions.advantagedatabase.com
"Ginny Caughey" <ginny....@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:ab6f4m$6et$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com...
Ginny Caughey
This was my point exactly when CA marketing told me about the name change last
winter. I told them that people would expect your product to be included if that
was the name they used, so maybe they should talk to ADS about it if that was
their intention or not use that name if it was not their intention. Obviously
they didn't listen to me since VO was listed as "Advantage CA-Visual Objects" at
CA-World 2002, but at least the issue is resolved now for VO and Clipper. BTW
they are still using "Advantage" for other products in their line AFAIK, so the
potential for confusion could still be there for those other products. They
claim their trademark attorney said they could use the name if they wanted to,
but I'm glad it's not MY name they appropriated!
Ginny
"Bill Schuler (ADS)" <bi...@extendsys.com> wrote in message
news:ab6mr5$l0j$0...@204.134.216.42...
Dirk Herijgers
>> Advantage Database Server
Hello Bill,
What about the support and future of ADS and VO, when Fortress is now a <standard> ?
Is it not possible to include ADS also into the package 2.6 ?
I have invest some weeks to make all my VO-products "compliant" with ADS. Have I
choice the wrong product, and was Fortress a better choice ?
Dirk, Belgium
Gary Stark
I was wondering about that name, and was always looking for the tennis match.
FDW wrote:
--
FDW
Now you know ;-)
Frans
"Gary Stark" <gst...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com> wrote in message
news:3CD70EAC...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com...
Bill Schuler (ADS)
Advantage as one of the third party tools with VO. It's not beneficial to
him. He is trying to create a larger market for Fortress. Brian understands
that there is a large VO customer base using Advantage. He has assured me,
he is not trying to force anyone to Fortress. Brian has also insured me
that he will continual to provide us (ESI) with the SDK. This will allow
us to provide support to all of our VO customers. ESI will do everything
within our power to insure our customer get the support they need and are
used to.
If you have further questions please contact myself or Brian. I am sure our
two company can and will play nice :-) and provide you the developer
community with support for VO and or Clipper.
Bill Schuler
Advantage Database Server
World Wide Sales Manager
Phone (800)235-7576 ext. 6051
(208)322-7575 ext. 6051
Fax (208)327-5006
bi...@extendsys.com
5777 N. Meeker Ave. Boise, ID 83711
http://www.advantagedatabase.com
http://solutions.advantagedatabase.com
"Dirk Herijgers" <di...@fujitron.be> wrote in message
news:e8tdduk28ffi51if3...@4ax.com...
Jamie Macleod
I wouldn't bother. ADS is second to none for support and reliability. ADS
runs on Window, Linux, and Novell. ADS has support for multiple clients so
you can access your data from other applications such as Excel, Delphi, C#,
etc. Plus the VO RDD for ADS is developed and supported by ADS and not
Brian, so support is not dependent on Brian. It would also be stupid of
Brian to alienate VO users of ADS, with such a small VO user base.
Most of what I have read regarding Fortress is not good. Plus take a look
at the web site (http://www.loadstoneinc.com/). Makes you ask questions
when the latest "Latest News" is dated June 9, 1998. This isn't meant to
trash Fortress since I know nothing about it. I just can't understand why
you would leave a viable product like ADS, which is currently working for
you.
Jamie
"Dirk Herijgers" <di...@fujitron.be> wrote in message
news:e8tdduk28ffi51if3...@4ax.com...
steve.bonacina
I think that a really improve of the language can't
derive from 3th libraris.......................
Phil McGuinness
Re Fortress the problem was I see they went to wrong way and built this
thing around Novell protocols.
The new Fortress is written for TCP/IP and I am sure will do very well. I
am looking forward to trialing as soon as possible.
I would have used Advantage but I think the price is just too high and I
hope that Fortress as another player can bring the price down. In US
dollars it is probably not that expensive but when you have to double it for
the Australian it is expensive.
Phil McGuinness
----------------
"Jamie Macleod" <bu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5cTB8.22771$rS5.9...@news2.telusplanet.net...
Bubba
I didn't realize there was a new version of Fortress. That would be
interesting.
The price of Advantage isn't really that high for a company. If you are an
in-house developer, like me, it pays for itself. No administration and no
more index corruptions. Plus you get all the benefits of client/server, and
can access your data from many products. If you work for a software house,
you can pass the owness of the purchase on to your customer. If the
customer wants Client/Server they can buy ADS. If not, they can run the
local server for free. The code is the same for both.
Jamie
"Phil McGuinness" <hey...@sherlock.com.au> wrote in message
news:ab9klp$gh97c$1...@ID-88745.news.dfncis.de...
Phil McGuinness
I know all of what you have stated..
When my competitors do not use ADS nor DBF's but MDB's the engine from
Microsoft is free.
To add serveral thousand dollars to a program that sells for say $1500 puts
me out of the market.
snip[ If not, they can run the local server for free. ]
The local server for Free is not a full working system from the trials I
did.. it has disconnected functionality.
At least with the Microsoft system it all worked.
I like the idea of Fortress where you change ONE LINE to activate the
Client/Server RDD and you are away.
I have found the issue of corrupted indexes not much of a problem these days
as users move to W2k and XP and just have faster machines with more ram.
Compare to 2-3 years ago it has improved a lot.
Phil McGuinness
------------------
"Bubba" <bu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bY%B8.45$bV3....@news0.telusplanet.net...
Gary Stark
> I have found the issue of corrupted indexes not much of a problem these days
> as users move to W2k and XP and just have faster machines with more ram.
So the corruptions happen much more quickly now ? <g>
Phil McGuinness
Time / Important Stuff = Quicker Stuff and less problems..
This is the opposite of the Jam Down up theorem.
Phil
----
"Gary Stark" <gst...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com> wrote in message
news:3CD8958B...@NOJUNKRedbacksWeb.com...
Jamie Macleod
"Phil McGuinness" <hey...@sherlock.com.au> wrote in message
news:aba2t7$gc5q9$1...@ID-88745.news.dfncis.de...
> Bubba,
>
> I know all of what you have stated..
>
> When my competitors do not use ADS nor DBF's but MDB's the engine from
> Microsoft is free.
> To add serveral thousand dollars to a program that sells for say $1500
puts
> me out of the market.
I can understand your point, but the local server is fully functional from a
developers stand point. What can't you do with the local server?
>
> snip[ If not, they can run the local server for free. ]
>
> The local server for Free is not a full working system from the trials I
> did.. it has disconnected functionality.
> At least with the Microsoft system it all worked.
>
> I like the idea of Fortress where you change ONE LINE to activate the
> Client/Server RDD and you are away.
You can do this with ADS. Specify Remote/Local/Internet access with one
line.
> I have found the issue of corrupted indexes not much of a problem these
days
> as users move to W2k and XP and just have faster machines with more ram.
I inherited a Clipper monster and ADS saved us. It stabalized the
corruptions while we worked on converting to Windows.