When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would even want to be called a Jew ....
Caiaphas
want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when people throughout
the world understand what has transpired, will it be shameful to be known as
a Jew?
The tragic day of Al-Nakba
A Statement of Solidarity with the Palestinians for
Al-Nakba Commemorations
By: Neturei Karta International, Jews United Against Zionism
May 15, 2003 - Washington DC
May the Creator's blessings be upon you, our dear brethren, the long
suffering Palestinian people.
We, of Neturei Karta International, salute you from Jerusalem, New
York, London and around the world. As many of you already know the Zionist
movement has been opposed by observant Orthodox Jews from its inception.
Zionism's first advocates were atheists, men who rejected and betrayed their
own Jewish faith. Orthodox Jews have always believed that it is a Divine
decree that the Jewish people are to remain in exile as loyal citizens to
their host nations until the Almighty will choose to redeem all of mankind.
Thus, it matters naught to us if the Israeli state be religious or
secular, whether it be of the right or of the left. Whatever form it should
adopt, Torah True Jewry throughout the world including in the Holy Land
itself, will never recognize its existence. A large number of Jews who live
in the Holy Land refuse to accept any government monies and do not
participate in the electoral process, and of course reject to serve in the
occupying military forces.
Further we see the ongoing oppression and humiliation for decades of
the Palestinian people, especially what is happening currently through the
criminal policies of Sharon as a monstrous evil. The Torah calls upon us to
deal justly with all men. The Torah calls upon us to exhibit kindness and
loyalty to all men, especially with the people of the lands in which we
reside throughout our exile. Thus, it is inevitably the true Jewish position
to sympathize with the plight of the persecuted and the downtrodden.
It is unthinkable to us that the Jewish people should ever appear as
the bully, the persecutor or the dispossessor. And, in fact, it is only
those Zionist Jews estranged from their own true faith and confused by the
incessant propaganda of the last fifty-five years who are responsible for
the current suffering.
Throughout the world there are untold numbers of believing Jews who
are horrified by the Zionists criminal and racist treatment of the
Palestinians. These Jews regard Israeli Independence Day as one of the
greatest tragedies in Jewish history. Many fast and recite special prayers
on that day.
Even though the Zionist propaganda machine portrays to the world that
they are representing the Jewish people as a whole, thank G-D true believing
Jews succeeded on numerous occasions to remove the mask, the cover-up of
this unthinkable falsification. Not to long ago a large delegation of
Neturei Karta in Jerusalem delivered a declaration of peace and loyalty in
the name of Orthodox Jewry to the Palestinian representatives in the Orient
House, East Jerusalem. Their desire and our desire is one and the same, to
witness the peaceful dismantling of the illegitimate Zionist state.
We seek the return of all the land, of course including Al-Aqsa, to
Palestinian rule.
We seek the return of all Palestinian refugees to their rightful land.
We seek to live in the land of Palestine as anti Zionist Jews. To
reside as loyal and peaceful Palestinian citizens, in peace and harmony with
our Muslim Brethren. Just as our ancestors lived in Palestine for centuries
before the usurpations of this tragic century.
May the Creator grant that this memorial day of Nakba should be the
last one, the current occupying State should end speedily and peacefully in
our days, and again the Jew and Muslim may yet live joyfully in harmony and
peace under Palestinian sovereignty throughout the Holy Land.
May we merit in the near future, to the day when all humankind will
recognize and serve the One G-D together in harmony, AMAN.
Tilly
> When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would
> even want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when
> people throughout the world understand what has transpired, will it
> be shameful to be known as a Jew?
Caiaphas shows his true colours.
You are a disgrace to Christianity.Have you joined Matt Hales church yet?
BTW have you forgotten that Jesus was a Jew?
Tilly
Caiaphas
"Tilly" <climb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FWUAa.32422$3t6.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
Jesus was a Jew and so were his Disciples and many in the early Christian
Church were Jews. But, the difference today is the fact that Israel is
oppressing Palestinian people. There are numerous Jews who feel as I do
that modern-day Israel is a man-created entity and is not a Biblical entity.
Many Jews even believe that Israel should be dismantled, forgiveness asked,
and repariations should be paid to the Palestinians for the injustices
commited by Zionist who are hell-bent on formulating a Jewish but secular
state.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew and He spoke out about injusticies and spiritual
blindness of his fellow Jews. He had compassion for *all* people.
I have compassion for Jews as individuals but I do not support any
aspirations that sinfully oppress other peoples as the means to accomplish
those aspirations. There is indeed a difference between a Jew as an
individual, and Israel as a country. One can love the former but have
disgust for the latter.
Tilly
Sorry ,but only a Jew hater would say the following. It is a less than
subtle way of whipping up negative feelings towards Jews.
"When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would even
want to be called a Jew.'Could someday in the future when people throughout
the world understand what has transpired, will it be shameful to be known as
a Jew?"
Now if that isn't anti semetic in tone I don't know what else is.
Then there is the matter of you manipulating and in essence lying by saying
that Jews support lying for Israel because Shamir said that . (when in fact
the article stated the whole country was outraged by his statement)
In doing so you deliberately slander Jews .Such machinations are typical of
scum such as yourself.
Tilly
Tilly
Norm
occupation and oppression of the impoverished Palestinians.
Susan Cohen
> > When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would
> > even want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when
> > people throughout the world understand what has transpired, will it
> > be shameful to be known as a Jew?
>
> Caiaphas shows his true colours.
Again.
> You are a disgrace to Christianity.Have you joined Matt Hales church yet?
(let's put that one in quotes. It's not a *real* church)
> BTW have you forgotten that Jesus was a Jew?
He always forgets inconvenient little facts. Even when they're repeated to
him.
Susan
>
>
> Tilly
>
>
>
> climb...@hotmail.com
>
>
Susan Cohen
"Norm" <no...@lvcm.com> wrote in message news:3ED42EE7...@lvcm.com...
> Many Jews, worldwide, are getting a bum rap because of Israel's harsh
> occupation and oppression of the impoverished Palestinians.
Many Jews, worldwide, are getting a bum rap from idiots who not only make up
crap about Israel, but figure they can blame Jews for their evil fantasies.
Susan
R.J. Goldman
by Mike Weeks when he started ranting about the Liberty. Norm lost every
move in that little chess game because he uses nothing but lies as his proof
of everything
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3ed44b18$1...@vienna7.his.com...
AnonMoos
bigoted racist Jew-hater would stoop to do!
--
Some Qur'an quotes: 5:20 qaala muusaa 5:21 "yaa qawmi ´dkhuluu ´l-'arDa
´l-muqaddasata ´llatii kataba ´llaahu lakum" 17:104 waqulnaa ... libanii
'israa'iila "´skunuu ´l-'arDa" || In English: Moses said, "My people,
go into the Holy Land which God has assigned to you!" And we said to the
Children of Israel, "Inhabit the land!" http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
Caiaphas
Actually, the phrase "who would even want to be called a Jew" is something I
plagiarized from a Jew who was writing about the actions of Israel. Don't
recall the author.
>
> Now if that isn't anti semetic in tone I don't know what else is.
>
> Then there is the matter of you manipulating and in essence lying by
saying
> that Jews support lying for Israel because Shamir said that . (when in
fact
> the article stated the whole country was outraged by his statement)
>
> In doing so you deliberately slander Jews .Such machinations are typical
of
> scum such as yourself.
You got to admit that there is a lot of half-truths and outright lies put
out by the Israelis.
A reporter on TV once stated that the Truth is the biggest casuality in this
conflict.
>
> Tilly
>
>
> Tilly
>
>
>
> climb...@hotmail.com
>
>
Caiaphas
"Norm" <no...@lvcm.com> wrote in message news:3ED42EE7...@lvcm.com...
> Many Jews, worldwide, are getting a bum rap because of Israel's harsh
> occupation and oppression of the impoverished Palestinians.
>
I agree. The rabid Zionist ones are tarnishing the reputation of all Jews.
That is the reason I often use word "Israeli-sympathizers" instead of the
word "Jew".
Caiaphas
"AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message
news:3ED4977B...@io.com...
> Calling oneself "Caiaphas" seems to be the kind of thing that only a
vicious
> bigoted racist Jew-hater would stoop to do!
>
What is wrong with the name Caiaphas - I think it sounds nice.
It's a Biblical name - although it did belong to one of the not so lovable
characters.
R.J. Goldman
"As you know, the Passover is two days away - and the Son of Man will be
handed over to be crucified." Then the chief priests and the elders of the
people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas,
and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. "But not
during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."
(Matthew 26:1-5)
Caiaphas was the Jewish high priest in Jerusalem during the years about 27
to 36, through the time of Jesus' public ministry, contemporary with the
emperor Tiberius (see Ancient Empires - Rome). His father-in-law was the
former high priest Annas. Caiaphas was a Sadducee, and a member of the
religious council when he ruled that The Lord should be put to death (John
11:50). Caiaphas had no legal authority to execute anyone, so Jesus was sent
to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor (Matthew 27:2, John 18:28).
The Bible account of The Fateful Night -
"Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas, the high priest, where
the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. But Peter followed him
at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and
sat down with the guards to see the outcome. The chief priests and the whole
Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could
put him to death. But they did not find any, though many false witnesses
came forward. Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I
am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'" Then
the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer?
What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus
remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by
the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is
as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will
see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on
the clouds of heaven." [see The Return Of Jesus Christ] Then the high priest
tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more
witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" "He
is worthy of death," they answered. Then they spit in His face and struck
Him with their fists. Others slapped Him and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ.
Who hit You?" (Matthew 26:57-68)
"Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people
came to the decision to put Jesus to death. They bound Him, led Him away and
handed Him over to Pilate, the governor. When Judas, who had betrayed Him,
saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the
thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned," he
said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they
replied. "That's your responsibility." So Judas threw the money into the
temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. The chief priests
picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the
treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy
the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. That is why it has been
called the Field of Blood to this day." (Matthew 27:1-8)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Caiaphas was the high priest of Jerusalem who, according to Biblical
accounts, sent Jesus to Pilate for his execution.
As high priest and chief religious authority in the land, Caiaphas had many
important responsibilities, including controlling the Temple treasury,
managing the Temple police and other personnel, performing religious
rituals, and--central to the passion story--serving as president of the
Sanhedrin, the Jewish council and court that reportedly considered the case
of Jesus.
The high priest had another, more controversial function in first-century
Jerusalem: serving as a sort of liason between Roman authority and the
Jewish population. High priests, drawn from the Sadducean aristocracy,
received their appointment from Rome since the time of Herod the Great, and
Rome looked to high priests to keep the Jewish populace in line. We know
from other cases (such as one incident in 66 C.E.) that Roman prefects might
demand that high priests arrest and turn over Jews seen as agitators.
Caiaphas was the son-in-law of Annas, high priest from 6 to 15 C.E. and head
of a family that would control the high priesthood for most of the first
century. Annas is also mentioned in Biblical accounts. It is possible that
he, as a high priest emeritus, might have served at the side of Caiaphas in
the Sanhedrin called to resolve the fate of Jesus.
Although little is known of Caiaphas, historians infer from his long tenure
as high priest, from 18 to 36 C.E., that he must have worked well with Roman
authority. For ten years, Caiaphas served with Roman prefect Pontius
Pilate. The two presumably had a close relationship. It is likely that
Caiaphas and Pilate had standing arrangements for how to deal with
subversive persons such as Jesus.
Caiaphas's motives in turning Jesus over to Pilate are a subject of
speculation. Some historians suggest that he had little choice. Others
argue that Caiaphas saw Jesus as a threat to the existing religious order.
He might have believed that if Jesus wasn't restrained or even executed that
the Romans might end their relative tolerance of Jewish institutions.
High priests, including Caiaphas, were both respected and despised by the
Jewish population. As the highest religious authority, they were seen as
playing a critical role in religious life and the Sanhedrin. At the same
time, however, many Jews resented the close relationship that high priest
maintained with Roman authorities and suspected them of taking bribes or
practicing other forms of corruption.
In the year 36 C.E., both Caiaphas and Pilate were dismissed from office by
Syrian governor, Vitellius, according to Jewish historian Josephus. It
seems likely that the cause of their dismissal was growing public
unhappiness with their close cooperation. Rome might have perceived the
need for a conciliatory gesture to Jews whose sensibilities had been
offended by the two leaders. Josephus described the high priests of the
family of Annas as "heartless when they sit in judgment."
Unlike other Temple priests, Caiaphas, as a high priest, lived in
Jerusalem's Upper City, a wealthy section inhabited by the city's
powers-that-be. His home almost certainly was constructed around a large
courtyard.
Archaeologists discovered in 1990 in a family tomb in Abu Tor, two miles
south of Jerusalem, an ossuary, or bone box, containing on its side the name
of Joseph Caiaphas, written in Aramaic. The ossuary is assumed to be
genuine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ka描efes) (Joseph Caiaphas) , Jewish high priest, a Sadducee, son-in-law of
Annas. According to the Gospels, he presided at the council that condemned
Jesus to death. Later, he joined in the examination of Peter and John. Mat.
26.57-68; John 11.47-54; 18.24; Acts 4.6.
Raymond
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oAVAa.395$Rm2....@eagle.america.net...
>
> "Tilly" <climb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FWUAa.32422$3t6.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> > Caiaphas wrote:
> > > When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would
> > > even want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when
> > > people throughout the world understand what has transpired, will it
> > > be shameful to be known as a Jew?
> >
> > Caiaphas shows his true colours.
> > You are a disgrace to Christianity.Have you joined Matt Hales church
yet?
> > BTW have you forgotten that Jesus was a Jew?
> >
>
> Jesus was a Jew and so were his Disciples and many in the early Christian
> Church were Jews. But, the difference today is the fact that Israel is
> oppressing Palestinian people. There are numerous Jews who feel as I do
> that modern-day Israel is a man-created entity and is not a Biblical
entity.
> Many Jews even believe that Israel should be dismantled, forgiveness
asked,
> and repariations should be paid to the Palestinians for the injustices
> commited by Zionist who are hell-bent on formulating a Jewish but secular
> state.
You can find backslidden Jews as well as Christians, that will believe
anything, as long as it disagrees with someone else. Israel is not
oppressing Palestinian people, they are doing that to the Israel, to the
point of car bombing, and human bombs against who? The Palestinian people,
no way, they are doing such to the Jews, and Israel. Which if they want
back home to their own Islamic people, there be no problem in Israel. You
just a Palestinian playing as a Jew here, your own statements show where
your heart is, and it sure is not with God or His plan.
> Yes, Jesus was a Jew and He spoke out about injusticies and spiritual
> blindness of his fellow Jews. He had compassion for *all* people.
Which you seem to be lacking.
> I have compassion for Jews as individuals but I do not support any
> aspirations that sinfully oppress other peoples as the means to
accomplish
> those aspirations. There is indeed a difference between a Jew as an
Sure you do, only you have one eye line of seeing things. You support
anyone that is against the Jew, and if the Jew would do anything to protect
themselves you yell it is their oppression against the murders of the Jewish
children. Shame on you, your words are so clear on these matters.
> individual, and Israel as a country. One can love the former but have
disgust for the latter.
No you can not and call yourself a Israeli, you either love it all, or you
reject it, and we can see your disgust so you just reject it all, and want
to feel good so try to get others to agree with you, against God.
Raymond
Raymond
> occupation and oppression of the impoverished Palestinians.
It is all PR who you are reading, what I see is the oppression is done by
the Palestinians that want to kill Jewish people, and when they are caught,
folks like you jump in to say it is Israelis fault. Sorry I will not buy
into that.
Raymond
Raymond
Well it been so long now that the Americans were blamed for everything and
Yankee go home stuff, it a breather to see the Jews getting the same now.
:=) Then to some all they have to live for is their fantasies. Kind of a
sick world we live in now.
>
> Susan
>
>
Raymond
> When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who would even
> want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when people
throughout
> the world understand what has transpired, will it be shameful to be known
as
> a Jew?
I suppose the name Jew is like Jap, given them by those that hate them, so
it be nice to see another name for them then just "Jew".
> May we merit in the near future, to the day when all humankind will
> recognize and serve the One G-D together in harmony, AMAN.
Aman and his name is JESUS.
>
>
>
penitent leper
good work.
- pl -
Tilly
I noticed you have completely avoided the issue regarding the misquoting of
the newspaper article .
You did it in order to defame Jews and Israel.
Tilly
climb...@hotmail.com
Jack Kemp
effortlessly to some anonymous (imaginary?) person
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:X%1Ba.3$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
Caiaphas
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb1t39$hv...@rain.i-cable.com...
Perhaps you want to share with us Gods plan and intent for modern-day
Israel.
Caiaphas
I misquoted nothing. You are just beside yourself because Yakir Shamir made
an arrogant comment.
Tilly
I couldn't give a shit what he said. It was his view only. There was general
outrage in Israel at the time he said it . I know, I was there.
You purposely set out to give the impression that the majority of Jews and
Israelis support what he said, which is an out and out lie.
You have the gall to think of yourself as a good Christian.
It is interesting that almost all Christians that post here and in the
Christian ngs think otherwise disassociate themselves from you.
Tilly
Deborah Sharavi
>When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood,
Caiaphas still won't have a clue.
>A Statement of Solidarity with the Palestinians for
>Al-Nakba Commemorations
>By: Neturei Karta International, Jews United Against Zionism
Next on Neturei Krakpot list:
A Statement of Solidarity with the Kalifornia Kabbala Kult
of Kwazies
By: Neturei Karta International, Jews Against Brains
Deborah
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Mike Shultz
> Calling oneself "Caiaphas" seems to be the kind of thing that only a vicious
> bigoted racist Jew-hater would stoop to do!
Because of your post, I looked up "Caiaphas", here is what I found:
http://www.execulink.com/~wblank/caiaphas.htm
Caiaphas was the Jewish high priest in Jerusalem during the years about
27 to 36, through the time of Jesus' public ministry, contemporary with
the emperor Tiberius (see Ancient Empires - Rome). His father-in-law was
the former high priest Annas. Caiaphas was a Sadducee, and a member o
the religious council when he ruled that The Lord should be put to death
(John 11:50). Caiaphas had no legal authority to execute anyone, so Jesus
was sent to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor (Matthew 27:2, John 18:28).
Now here is a quote from an earlier post of Caiaphas to me:
"In our Methodist Church, we neither preach for or against either Israel or
Muslims."
Now, this person "Caiaphas" has me a bit baffled, how can they be a member
of a Christian church, and at the same time honor one of the people who
helped to kill their "Messiah". Jews, annoy me sometimes, but Christians
leave me totally bewildered!
--
Michael C. Shultz
Landers, CA USA
ring...@inbox.lv
Tilly
> Because of your post, I looked up "Caiaphas", here is what I found:
>
> http://www.execulink.com/~wblank/caiaphas.htm
>
> Caiaphas was the Jewish high priest in Jerusalem during the years
> about 27 to 36, through the time of Jesus' public ministry,
> contemporary with
> the emperor Tiberius (see Ancient Empires - Rome). His father-in-law
> was
> the former high priest Annas. Caiaphas was a Sadducee, and a member o
> the religious council when he ruled that The Lord should be put to
> death (John 11:50). Caiaphas had no legal authority to execute
> anyone, so Jesus
> was sent to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor (Matthew 27:2, John
> 18:28).
>
> Now here is a quote from an earlier post of Caiaphas to me:
>
> "In our Methodist Church, we neither preach for or against either
> Israel or Muslims."
>
> Now, this person "Caiaphas" has me a bit baffled, how can they be a
> member
> of a Christian church, and at the same time honor one of the people
> who helped to kill their "Messiah". Jews, annoy me sometimes, but
> Christians leave me totally bewildered!
It might help you to know that most Christians here and in the Christian ngs
are totally bewildered by Caiaphas.
Tilly
Deborah Sharavi
>ka´yefes) (Joseph Caiaphas) , Jewish high priest, a Sadducee, son-in-law of
>Annas. According to the Gospels, he presided at the council that condemned
>Jesus to death. Later, he joined in the examination of Peter and John. Mat.
>26.57-68; John 11.47-54; 18.24; Acts 4.6.
No wonder he didn’t like J. “Sadducees” abhorred “Pharisees”, and
J was obviously one of the latter.
>>What is wrong with the name Caiaphas - I think it sounds nice.
>>It's a Biblical name –
It isn’t.
>>although it did belong to one of the not so lovable characters.
A Roman tukhis-lekker, how apt.
To Bury Caiaphas, Not to Praise Him
David Flusser
http://www.jerusalemperspective.com/articles/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=1462#Sadducees
One view anyway.
Mike Shultz
Ah, I get it now, just another nut, well its awful nice of you to defend
the Christians by pointing out their opinion of Caiaphas to me Tilly.
Jack Kemp
the land He promised them... BTW, that includes part of Jordan, too! You
will not be able to thwart G-d's plan, just in case you had any thoughts in
that area...
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KJ9Ba.25$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
Nossy
Messiah. The abomination, the idolatry, the atheist fake Jewish
Zionist apartheid state is the impediment. May it have a quick and
peaceful death, amen.
Judaism Yes!
Zionism No!
www.jewsagainstzionism.com
www.nkusa.org
www.jewsnotzionists.org
www.netureikartauk.org
On Thu, 29 May 2003 00:42:45 GMT, "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com>
wrote:
Tilly
> Ah, I get it now, just another nut, well its awful nice of you to
> defend
> the Christians by pointing out their opinion of Caiaphas to me Tilly.
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Is it difficult to tell on the net. :-)
Tilly
Caiaphas
"Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com> wrote in message
news:9IcBa.20078$rO.18...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> That is easy enough... G-d's plan is for His chosen to be in possession of
> the land He promised them... BTW, that includes part of Jordan, too! You
> will not be able to thwart G-d's plan, just in case you had any thoughts
in
> that area...
>
Interesting. So, why is it so important for God to want "His chosen" to
occupy the land of Israel.
OR, are you just trying to make God into a image palatable to Jewish
Culture?
Caiaphas
"Nossy" <he...@heavier.net> wrote in message
news:h4madvgqptejercff...@4ax.com...
> G-d's plan is for the redemption of the world and the coming of the
> Messiah. The abomination, the idolatry, the atheist fake Jewish
> Zionist apartheid state is the impediment. May it have a quick and
> peaceful death, amen.
>
> Judaism Yes!
> Zionism No!
I agree. I don't see how bringing Jews to force out Palestinians in
modern-day Palestine helps in any way to bring about Gods plan for
redemption of the world. Don't make sense. Perhaps, fundamentalist
Christians and Zionist Jews have misinterpreted Scripture.
Caiaphas
"Mike Shultz" <ring...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.05.28....@inbox.lv...
Me honor the Caiaphas of the Bible? Get real. You have totally missed the
point.
I only chose Caiaphas because it was a cute sounding Jewish name in the
Bible that might make people think.
Me honor Caiaphas character in the Bible --- no way.
Caiaphas
The only ones bewildered are the ones who are brain-washed into thinking
that modern-day Jews are Gods Chosen People.
Just read the Bible and learn that it states that Christians are the Chosen,
and anyone who does not believe in Jesus as Christ is the "anti-Christ".
James
"Deborah Sharavi" <desh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdca5bda2512ca0d49c...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> "Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood,
>
> Caiaphas still won't have a clue.
>
Do you think the reason for that just might be because he is so blind with
hate for Jews? If this guy is a Christian he is a piss poor one. He would
make a good Klan member, or a white supremacist, or a Nazi. Hell, he would
even make a good Muslim.
Hey, Caiaphas, you are doing such a damn poor job of being a Christian why
don't you consider changing sides and becoming a Muslim. Think about! You
could get with your Muslim brothers and spread lies and hatred for the Jews
with the best of them. However, when it come to lies you will never be as
good as Strider.
--
On Sept. 12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at half-staff and the
Palestinians were dancing in the streets.
Caiaphas
As if Tilly really knew any Christians.
Tilly
Tilly
> The only ones bewildered are the ones who are brain-washed into
> thinking that modern-day Jews are Gods Chosen People.
> Just read the Bible and learn that it states that Christians are the
> Chosen, and anyone who does not believe in Jesus as Christ is the
> "anti-Christ".
Ahhhhhhh.........now you said it but we figured you out ages ago.
Caiaphas gets shivers up his spine every time he hears that the Jews are
G_ds Chosen People. (even though we have explained to him many times what it
means.)
.Caiaphas is convinced he is superior because he is a Christian and
believes Jesus was the Messiah, so he is automatically guaranteed a place
in heaven.This makes him feel better because he suffers from an inferiority
complex.
Not only that, Caiaphas loves to label anyone that isn't Christian 'the anti
Christ', because it further enhances his feelings of superiority.
Geez he's a moron.
Tilly
.
Mike Shultz
You get me too well sometimes, probably gonna cost me big sooner
or later. . . :)
Raymond
>
> "Raymond" <NOSPAM-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bb1t39$hv...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >
> > "Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
backslidden Jews as well as Christians, that will believe
> > anything, as long as it disagrees with someone else. Israel is not
> > oppressing Palestinian people, they are doing that to the Israel, to the
> > point of car bombing, and human bombs against who? The Palestinian
> people,
> > no way, they are doing such to the Jews, and Israel. Which if they want
> > back home to their own Islamic people, there be no problem in Israel.
You
> > just a Palestinian playing as a Jew here, your own statements show where
> > your heart is, and it sure is not with God or His plan.
>
> Perhaps you want to share with us Gods plan and intent for modern-day
Israel.
I have no idea what Gods plan or intent for modern-day Isreal, only his old
plan to give salvation to all the world if they will accept God. Untill
then, we only see mans intent.
Tilly
> I have no idea what Gods plan or intent for modern-day Isreal, only
> his old plan to give salvation to all the world if they will accept
> God. Untill then, we only see mans intent.
This should be interesting Raymond. :-)
Tilly
Mike Shultz
Caiaphas, I think you missed the irony of my statement, try reading it
again, especially if you assume Tilly knows no Christians. :)
Mike Shultz
Why does he label with "the anti-Christ"? Seems he is implying more than
one by his definition, don't bother answering Tilly, I'll just accept that
Caiaphas is the most bewildering person I have yet met around here.
Reminds me of why I avoid the Christian groups, I haven't learned to
dance to looney tunes yet.
Mike Shultz
Caiaphas, you defiantly have a unique sense of logic. Its going to be
a lot of fun getting to know you I think. You could come in real handy,
for example, when I think I understand your logic I'll know its time to
see a shrink, or at least sober up.
Raymond
all along.
>
Raymond
> Raymond wrote:
> > I have no idea what Gods plan or intent for modern-day Isreal, only
> > his old plan to give salvation to all the world if they will accept
> > God. Untill then, we only see mans intent.
>
>
> This should be interesting Raymond. :-)
I would think it should be, only now is the time to make sure we are on the
correct side, as there is only one right and one wrong, and one eternal life
with God or in Hell with the devil and his followers. Sad day it will be,
if mankind is not prepared. {:-0
>
> Tilly
>
> --
> climb...@hotmail.com
>
>
Caiaphas
Someday we will stand before God knowing.
Caiaphas
Accept God only, or accept Jesus as their Savior?
Caiaphas
>
> > Perhaps you want to share with us Gods plan and intent for modern-day
> Israel.
>
> I have no idea what Gods plan or intent for modern-day Isreal, only his
old
> plan to give salvation to all the world if they will accept God. Untill
> then, we only see mans intent.
>
Perhaps modern-day Israel is a test to see if we will live the
commandments - "thou shalt not kill", "thou shalt not covet thou neighbors
land, house, etc.".
Perhaps it is a test for us Christians to speak out about injustices and
stand up for what is right.
Caiaphas
Ok, I'll just post Scripture and you tell me what it says:
1John 2:
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a
man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies
the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Basically I read it that acceptance of Christ is paramount and, unlike some
have stated, it is permissible to be a Jew and believe in Christ.
Any compromise to this is simply just being Politically Correct.
Caiaphas
So Shultz, you know I am Christian and believe that Christ is the only way
to eternal life, so tell me something about yourself.
Caiaphas
"James" <jme...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:kaqdnUeQovF...@comcast.com...
>
> "Deborah Sharavi" <desh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bdca5bda2512ca0d49c...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> > "Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood,
> >
> > Caiaphas still won't have a clue.
> >
>
> Do you think the reason for that just might be because he is so blind with
> hate for Jews? If this guy is a Christian he is a piss poor one. He
would
> make a good Klan member, or a white supremacist, or a Nazi. Hell, he
would
> even make a good Muslim.
Nope, I don't hate Jews - I have Jews as part of my family.
Nope, not a Klan member, not a white supremacist, nor a Nazi. I leave the
Nazi-tendacies to modern-day Israel.
Not even a Muslim.
So, the only thing you need to consider is if I am Christian - "a piss poor
one".
>
> Hey, Caiaphas, you are doing such a damn poor job of being a Christian why
> don't you consider changing sides and becoming a Muslim. Think about!
You
> could get with your Muslim brothers and spread lies and hatred for the
Jews
> with the best of them. However, when it come to lies you will never be
as
> good as Strider.
Why do you think that it is so important for a "good" Christian to side with
Israel rather than with the Palestinians?
To be politically correct?
Mike Shultz
You easily confuse me Caia, am I to understand that I get to be the
anti-Christ? What are the benefits? Is there a union, or a retirement
package? Whats it pay? Sounds like it could be fun running around
anti-Christing people, would they all be scared of me? Maybe I could just
threaten them with being anti-Chrited by me unless they give me all their
stuff, and if their wives are good looking I'll even take them too.
Mike Shultz
> So Shultz, you know I am Christian and believe that Christ is the only way
> to eternal life, so tell me something about yourself.
I assume since you seem to want me to know that you are Christian, you
want to know my religion? Its my business, not yours. I will say this
though, while I am very glad to see you seem to enjoy your religion, I
have to wonder why you think you have the right to preach it at me?
I'll give you fair warning Caia, you live by your beliefs and we can
get along swell, you try imposing them on me and I'll ridicule every last
one of them, and have fun doing it too.
Caiaphas
Shultz, read the words and take your own revelation from them.
Caiaphas
I just was curious of your background as you seem to have some strong
feelings. You are right - it is not my business and you definitely have the
right to privacy. I don't think I was "imposing" my beliefs on you but
instead expressing the my Christian perspective in these posts. How else
are we to learn about this great global village and the Middle East Crisis
unless we understand where people are coming from.
Mike, I would like for this to be an intelligent debate -- but if what I
post bothers you, why don't you just enter my handle in the killfile.
Raymond
us Gods plan and intent for modern-day
> > Israel.
> >
> > I have no idea what Gods plan or intent for modern-day Isreal, only his
old
> > plan to give salvation to all the world if they will accept God. Untill
> > then, we only see mans intent.
>
> Accept God only, or accept Jesus as their Savior?
The word accept, means in this matter to recieve God and His plan for
mankind.
Mark 4:20
20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word,
accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred."
1 Cor 6:7-11
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law
against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not
rather let yourselves be cheated?8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat,
and you do these things to your brethren!9 Do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor
sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you.
But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the
name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. NKJV
The Bible says it all.
Raymond
>
>
>
>
Caiaphas
John 14:
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except through me.
Matthew 10:
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my
Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him
before my Father in heaven.
Matthew 25:
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he
will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered
before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd
separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and
the goats on his left.
Raymond
I like the word "perhaps" as it means anything, may be or may not be, in
other words "perhaps" means nothing.
>
>
Caiaphas
Well, Raymond, what does "perhaps" mean to you regarding that Christians
should speak out about injustices and stand up for what is right?
Deborah Sharavi
>Nope, I don't hate Jews - I have Jews as part of my family.
And some of his best friends are Jews, of course.
>Why do you think that it is so important for a "good" Christian to side with
>Israel rather than with the Palestinians?
>To be politically correct?
Survival, maybe.
Deborah
Christian Persecution by Arafat
by Joseph Farah
Question: What's worse than being bullied, harassed, intimidated and
persecuted for your faith?
Answer: Being bullied, harassed, intimidated and persecuted for your
faith -- and watching the perpetrator of these crimes against humanity
successfully blame someone else for committing them.
That's exactly what is happening to Christians today in Yasser
Arafat's Palestinian Authority. They are being beaten up. They are
being killed. They are having their businesses burned down. They are
watching their daughters raped. They are being run out of their
ancestral homelands.
And the very people doing this – Arafat's PA – are blaming it
all on
Israel.
The latest evidence of this campaign came on Christmas Day in an
editorial in the Jordan Times.
Interestingly, the editorial doesn't sugar-coat the toll on
Christians.
"The alarm bell has already been rung," it said. "In a few decades,
there may be no Christians left in the Holy Land."
"It is time it is given its real name: Ethnic cleansing."
"According to Palestinian experts, at least 1,500 Christian families
have left Bethlehem over the past year."
"It is a generally acknowledged fact that Palestinian Christians
emigrate in proportionally higher numbers than Muslims."
All true. But the reasons for this modern-day exodus are totally
obscured by the report.
After explaining that Christians tend to be professionals and belong
to the middle class, the paper says it is easier for them to find
employment abroad. Christians, the paper says, feel more at home in
the West. It all sounds like the Jordan Times is writing this off as a
voluntary phenomenon. Then the phony blame-game begins.
"A few experts have also talked of some sort of pressure from
Palestinian Islamic militant groups, such as Hamas, although this
phenomenon has certainly played a negligible part in the Christian
exodus from the Holy Land, compared to the brutal aggression carried
out by Israel," the editorial says.
Nothing could be further from the truth. This kind of distortion adds
insult to injury to the remnant of Christians left in the Holy Land.
They know who their enemy is. They know why are they are oppressed.
They know who is attacking them. They know who is occupying them.
And it's not Israel.
I've talked to these people. I've broken bread with these people. And
a new documentary, "Holy Land: Christians in Peril," made within the
Palestinian Authority demonstrates just what an outrageous lie is
being perpetrated by Arafat and his co-conspirators in the Arab world
with regard to the persecution of Christian Arabs.
Here are the facts. Some 2 million Christians have fled the Middle
East in the past 20 years. Some estimates are much higher than this.
Since Arafat took over administration of the Palestinian territories
from Israel the Christian population has dropped from 15 percent to 2
percent.
If these people were fleeing Israeli oppression, why did they leave
after the Israelis left? It makes no sense.
The Jordan Times, apologists for Arafat to the end, knows this truth.
It knows the only way Israel has sped up the exodus of Christians from
the Middle East is by withdrawing from territories in Judea, Samaria,
Gaza, southern Lebanon and elsewhere. When Israel administered those
areas, Christian Arabs believed they had a friend in the Jewish state.
Now the protective hand of Israel has been lifted because Israel
itself is under siege.
It's time for the whole world to recognize the mini-holocaust taking
place against Christians in the Middle East.
As the Jordan Times wrote: "How much longer will it take for the
international community to come out against the ethnic cleansing in
Palestine?"
They've got that right. It is indeed a form of ethnic cleansing. But
the perpetrators are not Israelis, they are Muslim Arabs, and they are
acting under the color of authority of Yasser Arafat.
==================================
Near East Report
January 28, 2002
Christians Fleeing Palestinian Controlled Areas
By Daphne Tsimhoni
The small Christian Arab community in the areas under Palestinian
Authority (PA) control has been a major victim of the current
Palestinian violence, resulting in accelerated Christian emigration from
the territories since September 2000.
The Christian population in the PA-controlled territories has declined
since 1997.
Population estimates, made by Ibrahim Kandelaft, PA Chairman Yasir
Arafat's adviser on Christians and church affairs, and seen in the graph
below, show a considerable decline in the number of Christians in the
West Bank -- from 35,000 in 1997 to 25,000 in 2002, a drop of 29
percent.
In the Gaza Strip, the number diminished from 2,500 to 2,000, or 20
percent, during the same period.
Dr. Bernard Sabella of Bethlehem University estimates that approximately
600 Christians per year have left since the beginning of the current
violence versus 300-400 per year in earlier periods. The Israeli civil
administration in the territories estimates the number of Christians who
have left since September 2000 at approximately 10,000.
The once-prosperous Christian community is more urbanized and better
educated, and has a higher rate of white-collar professionals, smaller
households and lower birthrates than does its Muslim counterparts. The
Christians in the West Bank are concentrated in two enclaves near
Jerusalem: the Ramallah district with approximately 16,000 Christians
and the Bethlehem district, including the small towns of Beit Jala and
Beit Sahur, with about 9,000 Christians. In both areas, the Christians
lost their majorities as early as the 1950s and 1960s when the West Bank
was under Jordanian rule, mainly due to the settlement of mostly Muslim
refugees as well as continuous Christians emigration and the Christians'
birthrate than the Muslims'.
Since September 2000, economic stagnation, high unemployment, lack of
internal security and Israeli closures of West Bank towns due to
constant Palestinian violence have affected all Palestinians. The
Christians in the Bethlehem area have been hit particularly hard. Unlike
the Christians of Ramallah, they have preserved their traditional,
church-affiliated lifestyle. They maintain strong affiliations to their
church headquarters, hospitals and educational institutions in
Jerusalem.
Christians have become increasingly concerned about the Islamization of
life in their key cities.
Bethlehem Christians cater to Christian pilgrims and other tourists by
running hotels, restaurants and souvenir stores and industries. Their
relations with their Muslim neighbors have been marked by friction and
violence. Bethlehem Christians have complained of raids by a neighboring
Muslim Bedouin tribe and the purchase of lands in their neighborhoods by
Muslim Hebronites that is liable to further marginalize them in their
own enclave. They are particularly troubled by the Islamization of
public life in the Bethlehem area and by the imposition of Muslim codes
of conduct, especially regarding women.
The expansion of PA control to Bethlehem in 1995 separated it from
Jerusalem and hampered its Christian inhabitants’ contacts with
their
Jerusalem church headquarters; the current Palestinian violence almost
extinguished these contacts altogether.
The Christians of Bethlehem saw the destruction of the mainstay of their
livelihood -- Christian pilgrimage and other tourism. Furthermore, much
of the violence has been perpetrated by the radical Muslim
organizations, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Imposing Muslim codes in the
Bethlehem area and violence against its Christian residents have
considerably expanded, including occasional attacks on women.
Although Palestinian Christians have rarely engaged in violence against
Jews, some Christians have been killed in the fighting. The most
disastrous effects of the violence have occurred in the quiet, largely
Christian town of Beit Jala. Armed Palestinian elements chose Beit Jala
as their base for sniping at the nearby Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo.
Their goal was self-evident—directing international attention to
any
retaliatory fire on this Christian town by the Israelis. The Israeli
reaction did come, and it forced numerous Christians to evacuate. Many
headed abroad, especially to the United States and Canada.
In the Gaza Strip as well, the violence has harmed the tiny Christian
community. In addition to the economic decline, there were several cases
of physical attacks on Christians in Gaza, influenced by Islamist
incitement against Israel and the Christian West.
The continuation of present trends is liable to increase Christian
emigration even further and cause a drastic decline in the already
dwindling Christian population. The Christians urgently need an end to
the violence and a resumption of peace negotiations between Israel and
the Palestinians.
Dr. Tsimhoni, research fellow at the Harry S. Truman Institute at the
Hebrew University of Jerusalem, is the author of Christian Communities
in Jerusalem and the West Bank Since 1948 (Praeger, 1993).
==================================
The Christian Exodus from the Middle East
By Jonathan Adelman and Agota Kuperman
In another decade or so, given present trends, there will be few if
any Christians living in Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus. The same
is true of Nazareth, where Jesus grew up, and even of Jerusalem, where
nearly 600 historic churches still stand.
Christians in the Palestinian territories have dropped from 15 percent
of the Arab population in 1950 to just 2 percent today. Both Bethlehem
and Nazareth, which had been overwhelmingly Christian towns, now have
strong Muslim majorities. Today three-fourths of all Bethlehem
Christians live abroad, and more Jerusalem Christians live in Sydney,
Australia than in the place of their birth. Indeed, Christians now
comprise just 2.5 percent of Jerusalem, although those remaining still
include a few born in the Old City when Christians there still
constituted a majority.
And it is not only the Holy Land from which many native Christians
have fled. Throughout the entire Middle East, once significant
Christian communities have shrunk to a miniscule portion of their
former robust selves. In 50 years they may well be extinct.
What happened? Why has there been a great – and little reported --
Christian exodus from the Middle East, with some 2 million fleeing in
the past 20 years alone? Why have perhaps fully half of all Iraqi
Christians clandestinely emigrated in the last 10 years? Why have
hundreds of thousands of Egyptian Copts left their homeland, with the
famous Antioch community collapsing from 15,000 Christians a couple of
decades ago to a mere handful today?
The single greatest cause of this emigration is pressure from radical
Islam.
To be sure, there have been other reasons for the exodus. Educated
Middle Eastern Christians sometimes emigrate for economic reasons.
Some have left to avoid the endless procession of violent conflicts.
Their lower birth rate and compatibility with the Christian West has
reinforced these tendencies.
But an entire group does not cavalierly abandon a homeland in which
its ancestors have lived for nearly 2,000 years simply because of the
allures of a more prosperous society. Such people have to be pushed
out, too. And that is precisely what radical Islamists are managing to
do.
In his recent book The Body and the Blood: The Holy Land's Christians
at the Turn of the Century, Charles Sennott reports on one Christian
community after another that is "perilously close to extinction."
"In one Jerusalem parish there were not enough young Christian men
left to carry a casket at a funeral...In the sanctuary of an Upper
Egypt monastery, Christians cowered in fear of violence from Islamic
militants and systematic human rights violations by Egypt's police
state. In Lebanon the empty halls of once-grand Maronite Christian
monasteries echoed a long-distant past crumbling and disappearing in
the aftermath of a devastating civil war ... In all these places I
found the Christian community withering, as daily life grew steadily
more difficult."
Lebanon and Egypt are revealing cases precisely because no one, a
generation or two ago, would have imagined that their large historic
Christian communities would be so beleaguered today. And yet they are.
In Lebanon, where Christians were once a solid majority of the
country, they number less than one million people today, and are
shrinking rapidly.
Egyptian Copts, meanwhile, have felt the brunt of both the state and
Islamic fundamentalists. Many laws and customs favor Muslims, and the
constitution proclaims Islam as the state religion. Muslim, but not
Christian, schools receive state funding and Arabic may be taught in
schools only by Muslims. It is nearly impossible to restore or build
new churches at a time while many thousands of new Islamic buildings
have been sanctioned by the state. Identity cards note the bearer's
religion, Christians are frequently ostracized or insulted in public,
and laws prohibit Moslem conversions to Christianity. Most frightening
of all, Islamic radicals have frequently launched physical attacks on
Copts.
In several other Islamic countries, conditions are even worse. In
Saudi Arabia, Islam is the state religion and all citizens must be
Muslims. It is illegal to import, print or own Christian or non-Muslim
religious materials, and Christians have been jailed and deported.
Sudan has followed shari'a law since 1983 and declared itself an
Islamic Republic in 1991. A brutal civil war waged by an Islamic Arab
North against the Christian and animist black African south has killed
over two million people and uprooted the majority of the population.
In Taliban Afghanistan the application of harsh shari'a law bred such
hatred of Christians that there were no longer any open churches or
significant numbers of avowed Christians in the country.
In Iran, Christians form a miniscule .4 percent of the population. The
tiny Christian population has been treated as second class dhimmis
–
"people of the Book" who are theoretically protected while officially
marginalized. The printing of Christian literature is illegal,
converts from Islam are liable to be killed and most evangelical
churches must function underground.
Nowhere is the fate of Christians of more international interest,
however, than within the Palestinian Authority. Yasser Arafat has
repeatedly proclaimed himself a defender of the Christians; he met
with the Pope and appointed a Christian, Hanan Ashrawi, as one of his
leading spokespeople. But, his deeds belie his words, and ever more so
with the rapid Islamization of the Palestinian movement.
Since 1975 Arafat has tried to erase the historic Jesus by depicting
him as the first radical Palestinian armed fedayeen (guerrilla).
Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority has adopted Islam as its official
religion, used shari'a Islamic codes, and allowed even officially
appointed clerics to brand Christians (and Jews) as infidels in their
mosques. The militantly Islamic rhetoric and terrorist acts of Hamas,
Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah – all of which Arafat has tolerated and
even encouraged -- offer little comfort to Christians.
Since the December 1995 Palestinian takeover of Bethlehem, Arafat has
placed the Church of the Nativity and other key Christian sites under
his direct political supervision. Palestinian converts to Christianity
have been harassed, Christian cemeteries have been destroyed,
monasteries have seen their phone lines cut and convents have been
broken into. By December 1997 The Times of London could report: "Life
in (PA ruled) Bethlehem has become insufferable for many members of
the dwindling Christian minorities. Increasing Muslim-Christian
tensions have left some Christians reluctant to celebrate Christmas in
the town at the heart of the story of Christ's birth."
In May 1999, Sheikh Yussef Salameh, the Palestinian Authority's
undersecretary for religious endowment, praised the idea that
Christians should become dhimmis under Muslim rule, and such
suggestions have become more common since the second intifada began in
October 2000.
Perhaps most ominously for the future of Christians in the Holy Land,
the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who is a favorite of Arafat, has
declared that there are no Jewish stones in Jerusalem and "not even
the smallest indication of the existence of a Jewish temple on this
place in the past."
From where, then, had Jesus chased the moneychangers? The Grand Mufti
did not say, but it is no wonder, given such an atmosphere, that
long-awaited global celebrations of the second millennium anniversary
of Jesus in Bethlehem had to be cancelled in 2000; nor is it
surprising that Christmas celebrations in Bethlehem have been
cancelled for the second year in a row.
The overall result? The exodus of Christians continues apace from
Palestinian Authority controlled areas. Within a generation Christians
may comprise less than 1% of the population of the ground sacred to
their faith.
None of this is to suggest, of course, that Christians always fared
well under Islam in earlier centuries. Indeed, the birth of Islam in
the seventh century had a disastrous impact on Christianity (as on
Judaism) in the Middle East. The Eastern Mediterranean at the time was
almost totally Christian and the Levant was Christianity's heartland.
The difference is that the brutality characteristic of much of Islam's
early history was also typical of most of the rest of the world's
major civilizations at that time – whereas the Islamist intolerance
today has no significant counterpart in the West.
Moreover, it appeared that Muslim governance would follow the course
of the West, and adopt policies protecting religious minorities and
even granting them equal status. But the demise of the Ottoman Turkish
Empire in 1918 and the rise of nationalism and radical Islam again
reversed the fortunes of Middle East Christians – and in a number
of
places their beleaguered status has only worsened with time.
The irony, of course, is that Christian rites, rituals and traditions
all are rooted in the Holy Land, and most early church fathers hailed
from the very areas of the Eastern Mediterranean in which Christian
communities are now on their heels or in virtual flight.
Those in the West who seek to understand the events of Sept. 11 and
the struggle now taking place between the West and a radical
"Jihadist" ("Holy War") movement must not forget that the scars of
radical Islam are also visible in the Middle East itself.
Jonathan Adelman is a professor at the Graduate School of
International Studies at the University of Denver. Agota Kuperman is a
retired senior foreign service officer in the U.S. Department of
State. Both are senior fellows of the Foundation for the Defense of
Democracies.
==================================
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_christians.php
What has happened to Christians living in Israel and neighboring
areas?
The Christian tradition in the Middle East goes back to the first
century, but the most important date is 636, the Muslim Arab Conquest.
Before that date the Middle East was inhabited by mostly Christians
and Jews, subjects of the Christian Byzantine Empire. Afterward,
Muslim Arabs dominated the region. Exceeding even the Roman's zeal for
conquest, the Arabs wanted to Moslemize everyone by force and over
thirteen centuries of continuous oppression, they have largely
succeeded, leaving only a few struggling groups.
At the beginning of the 20th century, rising nationalist feelings in
the region led the Copts of Egypt, the Assyro-Chaldeans of Iraq, the
South Sudanese, and the Lebanese Christians, to try to obtain
independence. But the Islamic powers in the region denied these
Christians their right to self-determination. At the expense of the
Middle East Christians, Arab identity and Islamic domination were
firmly established. Only the Jews of Israel were able to establish a
non-Islamic nation in the region. Israel has suffered perpetual war
and terrorism for that accomplishment.
Islam remains intolerant of any other group of people. Others are not
accepted on an equal basis, only as dhimmies to be subjugated by
Islam. Muslim children are taught to chant:
We shall fight on Saturday and then on Sunday
In other words, first the Jews and then the Christians.
Thus, the outlook appears bleak for Christianity in the Middle East,
in the very home of the religion, where Christ walked the earth and
the central events of Christianity occurred. Emigration began in the
aftermath of World War I when Muslim Arabs gained political control,
continued through the middle of the twentieth century, and then
accelerated in the 1990s with the rise of radical Islam. Indigenous
Middle Eastern Christians are fleeing in droves, escaping Muslim
violence and persecution, and deteriorating economic conditions. The
only exception is Israel, where the Christian population is slowly
increasing.
Situation in Lebanon
The Christians of Lebanon -- Maronites, Orthodox, and other
communities including Protestants -- number about 1.5 million, the
remnant of a Christian nation that resisted the Islamic conquorers for
13 centuries. Since Lebanon made an ill-conceived pact with the PLO in
1969, hundreds of thousands were massacred, displaced and exiled.
During the Israeli operations in Lebanon in 1978 and in 1982, the
Christian Lebanese sided with the Israelis against the Syria-backed
Islamic Lebanese. In 1985, the Israelis withdrew except for a security
buffer zone exposing the Christians to reprisals. Since 1990, the end
of the Lebanese civil war, the Christian areas of Lebanon have been
under Syrian occupation.
Christians in the north and central parts have been systematically
politically and socially oppressed since the Lebanese civil war ended.
Hundreds have been arrested, tortured, and jailed by pro-Syrian
forces. In the south of Lebanon, thousands of Christians are bombarded
constantly by Hezbollah. Thousands of Lebanese Christians fled when
Israel pulled out of the security zone in 2000. There are more than
seven million Lebanese Christians outside of Lebanon, including more
than 1.5 million Americans of Lebanese descent.
Situation in areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority
After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80%
Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30%
respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality
in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's
population.
Serious violations of religious freedom are reported from within the
Palestinian Authority, especially the persecution of Muslims who have
converted to Christianity. In the Christian town of Bet Jella, a human
rights lawyer reported brutal interrogation methods and arbitrary
arrests based on fabricated criminal charges against Muslims who have
converted to Christianity and their families. His report includes
testimony about torture from victims who were terrified to criticize
the Palestinian Authority and their secret police.
In Nazareth, the Christian population has decreased dramatically due
to the rise and spread of militant Islam. The Islamic Movement (a
radical Muslim group) has demanded the construction of a mosque near
the Church of the Annunciation, a mosque even some moderate Muslims
oppose. On Easter, 1999, the Muslim group burned Christian stores and
targeted Christians over the issue; attempts to intervene were
frustrated because Christians are terrified to speak out.
Hundreds of Christian families have left Palestinian towns like Bet
Jella and Bethlehem during the al-Aqsa intifada, caught literally in
the crossfire between Palestinians and Israelis. On the West Bank, a
nearly-permanent Muslim boycott of Christian businesses is achieving
its objective: driving the Christians to emigrate.
In October 2000, Christians were attacked in Gaza after a Palestinian
Muslim leader called for a "jihad" against both Jews and Christians.
In February 2002 a Muslim mob, including Palestinian Authority Special
Forces, burned Christian businesses and attempted to destroy the Greek
Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches in Ramallah. The attack occurred
after a Christian man killed a Muslim while being pursued by a Muslim
gang because he refused to pay protection money for safe passage to
his home.
Situation in Jordan
In Jordan, a relatively moderate nation, 94% of the population
practices Sunni Islam. The percentage of Christians in Jordan
(including the West Bank) in 1952 was 18% but has fallen to under 4%,
with the majority being Greek Orthodox. Two percent of the population
follows other religions, including Shi'a Islam.
Christian emigration continues because anti-Christian persecution is
still widespread. Christian schools have been harassed by the
government and converts have been arrested and jailed. Christian
businesses have been attacked.
Situation in Egypt
The largest Christian community of the Middle East is found in Egypt,
which has ten to twelve million Copts, a Christian group comprising
about 15 - 20% of the country's population. The Coptic Church is an
independent church that broke away from the Byzantine Orthodox in the
6th century. Copts were the majority religion in Egypt until at least
the 9th century, when it was overtaken by Islam brought by Arab
conquerors.
Egypt is torn by strife generated by Islamic opposition to Egypt's
official secularism and its ties with the West. Islamic radicals
attacked government officials, Copts, tourists and security officers
in an insurgency that has killed 1,200 people since the early 1990s.
Egypt is a major recipient of US foreign aid, despite blatant
violations of religious freedom which occurs regularly. The Copts
require presidential permission to open a church, their history can no
longer be taught in schools, and converts to their faith can be
arrested under the National Security Act. Few Copts are found in the
Egyptian government.
The London Daily Telegraph reported:
... in a single month during 1998, Egyptian police detained about
1,200 Christians in Al-Kosheh, near Luxor in Upper Egypt. Seized in
groups of up to 50 at a time, many were nailed to crosses or manacled
to doors with their legs tied together. Then they were beaten and
tortured with electric shocks to their genitals while police denounced
them as "infidels."
Other Muslim/Arab areas
In Sudan, at the crossroads of Islam and Christianity in Africa and
one of the only nations on earth where slavery is still common, the
Islamic fundamentalist government has been waging war on its millions
of Christian citizens. As a result of the vicious civil war going on
since 1955 between the Muslim Arab North and the Christian Black
South, it is estimated that some two million people have died thus
far. Those that are not killed outright are forced to convert to Islam
and then sold into slavery.
Although the population of modern Turkey is more than 99% Moslem, less
than one hundred years ago, under the predecessor Ottoman Empire, it
was about 30% Christian. The situation changed when some two million
Armenian Christians were massacred between 1905 and 1918, a genocide
which the Turkish government still denies. Of the remaining
Christians, many fled immediately, while others facing death threats,
systemic harassment, and discrimination, emigrated later. The
Greco-Turkish war of 1922 resulted in most of the 200,000 Greek
Christians leaving the country, with only a small remnant remaining,
who continue to complain of government harassment and discrimination.
In Saudi Arabia, Christians are less than 1% of the 21-million
population, and the public practice of Christianity is virtually
unknown since by law there are no Christians in Saudi Arabia.
Situation in Israel
Jews are over 80% of the population of Israel; most of the remaining
number are Sunni Palestinian Arabs. Christians make up 2% to 3% of the
population. Of the Christian population in Israel, over 80% are Arabs.
Many of the non-Arab Christians came to Israel with their Jewish
spouses during the waves of immigration in the 1980s and '90s, mainly
from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia.
The percentage of Christians in the Israeli population has steadily
declined due to the immigration of Jews from all over the world.
However, the absolute number of Christians has increased as Christians
have entered Israel from Europe or areas in the Middle East. The
Christian population of Israel has grown from 34,000 in 1949 to about
140,000 today.
Israeli law provides for freedom of religion and religious communities
have legal authority in matters such as marriage and divorce. Some
Christians live in Israel because that is where Jesus lived and the
central events of Christianity took place. Some maintain the Christian
holy sites and keep them open and accessible to all. They are welcomed
by Israel and there is no friction with Jewish residents. However,
some Christians have come to Israel as aggressive missionaries and
that is not welcome, giving rise to restrictive laws. Despite pro-Arab
claims, however, there is no evidence of Jewish persecution of
Christians in Israel.
Sources and additional reading on this topic:
Backgrounder: Leaving the Holy Land
Arafat's Terrorism Threatens Christians and Christian Sites ... Not
Just Israel
Exodus: The Decline of Middle East Christianity
Christians in Islamic Countries Targeted
Christians in the Middle East
The Forgotten Christians of the Middle East
Christian in a Muslim World
Caught in the Middle: When Muslims Embrace Jesus
Christians an endangered species in the Middle East
In the Lion's Den: A Shocking Account of Persecution and Martyrdom of
Christians Today
Disappearing Christians
The Islamization of Bethlehem by Arafat
Christians: Nazareth mosque threatens antiquities
Egypt Christians Face Discrimination
The Forgotten Frontline - Sudan
Persecution
Persecution in Israel?
The Christian population in Israel
Minority Communities in Israel
Local Christian community still growing
Desecration
Blind to the tragedy of Dhimmitude (Book Review)
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Mike Shultz
Well, I would killfile you, however I'll enjoy torturing you more probably
if I can read your posts. Why would you come to a Jewish area if you want
to discuss Christianity? You want to hang out here, you better learn to
roll with the punches.
Theodore Herzl
Can you believe the arrogance of these people, calling someone else
bigoted? Talk about calling the kettle black? <LOL>
The truth is that Zionist's and Israeli's have more in common with the
Klan or the Nazi's than any other group I can think of. The term
Zionist today is actually synonymous with hate and bigotry and
certainly brings up images of the Apartheid, the KKK and the Nazi's
from where Zionism spawned and festered
Tilly
>>
>
> So Shultz, you know I am Christian and believe that Christ is the
> only way to eternal life, so tell me something about yourself.
Yes ,well know you are deluded.
Now why don't you go and prosyletise elsewhere. How about an Islamic ng for
a change.........that should be real fun.
Tilly
Tilly
Patricia Heil
I thought it was settled and Deborah would get to be
Anti-Christ the next time????
James
The Palestinians are nothing more than a tool in the hands of the Islamic
Nations. If I go get a 13 mm combination wrench from my tool box and use
it to loosen a 13 mm nut, the wrench can not keep from doing my will. That
is the case with the Palestinians, they are a tool being used by the Arab
nations. The Palestinian's conditions prevents them from not being used.
The Islamic nations want the Palestinian in the miserable condition they are
in. That is a powerful weapon to use against Israel. Siding with the
Palestinians does not make you a bad or good Christian. Being deceived by
the Arab propaganda and being anti-Semitic is what makes you a poor excuse
for a Christian.
The conflict is not between the Israelis and the Palestinians. That is the
lie that the Arab nations want you to believe. The struggle is between
Israel and Islam. Like I said in the above paragraph, the Palestinians are
nothing but a tool. I don't know of any time when there has been a more
discernable line drawn between good and evil. Israel being good and Islam
being pure evil. Israel makes mistakes, all nations do because the nations
are made up of humans. Israel's mistakes are nothing when compared to the
evils of Islam. Islam will except no peace with Israel under any terms.
That evil godless religion will only be satisfied with Israel's destruction.
Instead of spending so much time on the computer being a troll and stir up
hate you would probably be a better Christian if you spent time studying
your bible. Go read what it says about people like you who call good evil
and evil good. I doubt that you ever read your bible so if you don't know
where that is at I'll help you out. Isaiah 5:20. Please read the next
verse also because it applies to you as well.
--
On Sept. 12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at half-staff and the
Palestinians were dancing in the streets.
MMW
who hates christ?
WTF does that even mean?
Jack Kemp
Scripture... Can you?
"Nossy" <he...@heavier.net> wrote in message
news:h4madvgqptejercff...@4ax.com...
> G-d's plan is for the redemption of the world and the coming of the
> Messiah. The abomination, the idolatry, the atheist fake Jewish
> Zionist apartheid state is the impediment. May it have a quick and
> peaceful death, amen.
>
> Judaism Yes!
> Zionism No!
>
> www.jewsagainstzionism.com
> www.nkusa.org
> www.jewsnotzionists.org
> www.netureikartauk.org
>
>
>
> On Thu, 29 May 2003 00:42:45 GMT, "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That is easy enough... G-d's plan is for His chosen to be in possession
of
> >the land He promised them... BTW, that includes part of Jordan, too! You
> >will not be able to thwart G-d's plan, just in case you had any thoughts
in
> >that area...
> >
> >"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:KJ9Ba.25$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
> >>
> >> "Raymond" <NOSPAM-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:bb1t39$hv...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >> >
> >> > "Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:oAVAa.395$Rm2....@eagle.america.net...
> >> > >
> >> > > "Tilly" <climb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > > news:FWUAa.32422$3t6.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> >> > > > Caiaphas wrote:
> >> > > > > When the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fully understood, who
> >would
> >> > > > > even want to be called a Jew. Could someday in the future when
> >> > > > > people throughout the world understand what has transpired,
will
> >it
> >> > > > > be shameful to be known as a Jew?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Caiaphas shows his true colours.
> >> > > > You are a disgrace to Christianity.Have you joined Matt Hales
church
> >> > yet?
> >> > > > BTW have you forgotten that Jesus was a Jew?
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Jesus was a Jew and so were his Disciples and many in the early
> >> Christian
> >> > > Church were Jews. But, the difference today is the fact that
Israel
> >is
> >> > > oppressing Palestinian people. There are numerous Jews who feel as
I
> >do
> >> > > that modern-day Israel is a man-created entity and is not a
Biblical
> >> > entity.
> >> > > Many Jews even believe that Israel should be dismantled,
forgiveness
> >> > asked,
> >> > > and repariations should be paid to the Palestinians for the
injustices
> >> > > commited by Zionist who are hell-bent on formulating a Jewish but
> >> secular
> >> > > state.
> >> >
> >> > You can find backslidden Jews as well as Christians, that will
believe
> >> > anything, as long as it disagrees with someone else. Israel is not
> >> > oppressing Palestinian people, they are doing that to the Israel, to
the
> >> > point of car bombing, and human bombs against who? The Palestinian
> >> people,
> >> > no way, they are doing such to the Jews, and Israel. Which if they
want
> >> > back home to their own Islamic people, there be no problem in Israel.
> >You
> >> > just a Palestinian playing as a Jew here, your own statements show
where
> >> > your heart is, and it sure is not with God or His plan.
> >>
Jack Kemp
that the land of Israel was essentially unoccupied... Once the Jews began to
return, they brought with them a certain level of prosperity... This
attracted a certain segment of Arabs in the area that wanted to partake of
this prosperity... If anything, the so-called Palestinians are trying to
force the Jews from the land, not vice versa... You are coming extremely
close to my killfile if you keep posting these moronic ramblings...
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rweBa.52$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
>
> "Nossy" <he...@heavier.net> wrote in message
> news:h4madvgqptejercff...@4ax.com...
> > G-d's plan is for the redemption of the world and the coming of the
> > Messiah. The abomination, the idolatry, the atheist fake Jewish
> > Zionist apartheid state is the impediment. May it have a quick and
> > peaceful death, amen.
> >
> > Judaism Yes!
> > Zionism No!
>
>
Jack Kemp
Jacob at that point...
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E7nBa.80$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
Jack Kemp
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ueBa.49$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
>
> "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com> wrote in message
> news:9IcBa.20078$rO.18...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > That is easy enough... G-d's plan is for His chosen to be in possession
of
> > the land He promised them... BTW, that includes part of Jordan, too! You
> > will not be able to thwart G-d's plan, just in case you had any thoughts
> in
> > that area...
> >
>
> Interesting. So, why is it so important for God to want "His chosen" to
> occupy the land of Israel.
>
> OR, are you just trying to make God into a image palatable to Jewish
> Culture?
>
>
>
Deborah Sharavi
Look it up. I think it sounds kinda neat. Hollyweird
thought so too.
Deborah
Mike Shultz
>
> I thought it was settled and Deborah would get to be
> Anti-Christ the next time????
>
She does? Dang, no one ever tells me these things! No fair!
Caiaphas
> And you will rue the day that you misquoted the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and
> Jacob at that point...
And when God tells you that no people are superior to another people, you
might want to check your pants.
Caiaphas
> Because He gave it to them as an everlasting possession...
Well, Jeremiah and other passages reads to me that it was 'conditional':
Jeremiah 7
3 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways
and your actions, and I will let you live in this place. 4 Do not trust in
deceptive words and say, "This is the temple of the LORD , the temple of the
LORD , the temple of the LORD !" 5 If you really change your ways and your
actions and deal with each other justly, 6 if you do not oppress the alien,
the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place,
and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7 then I will let you
live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever. 8
But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.
Tilly
> "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com> wrote in message
> news:62wBa.24691$Io.20...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> And you will rue the day that you misquoted the G-d of Abraham,
>> Isaac and Jacob at that point...
>
> And when God tells you that no people are superior to another people,
> you might want to check your pants.
That's a bit rich coming from you, who thinks he is guaranteed a slot in
heaven ,because he believes in Jesus as Messiah and is therefore superior to
people who don't .
Tilly
climb...@hotmail.com
Deborah Sharavi
>>just what is an ANTI-CHRIST? someone who dosen't belive in christ? Someone
>>who hates christ?
>>WTF does that even mean?
>Look it up. I think it sounds kinda neat. Hollyweird
>thought so too.
>Deborah
So I looked it up. Here's what I found:
Antichrist
From Easton's Bible Dictionary)
against Christ, or an opposition Christ, a rival Christ.
The word is used only by the apostle John. Referring to
false teachers, he says (1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7),
"Even now are there many antichrists."
[Addenda:
2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye
have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are
there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is
the last time.
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is
the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father
and the Son.
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this
is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard
that it should come; and even now already is it in
the world.
2 John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear
witness of the Light, that all men through him might
believe.
Antichrist
(From Hitchcock's Bible Names)
an adversary to Christ
Antichrist
(From International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)
an'-ti-krist (antichristos):
I. IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
[snip – no reference to any such critter]
II. IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
Johannine Epistles:
Although many of the features of the "Man of Sin" were exhibited
by Nero, yet the Messianic kingdom did not come, nor did Christ
return to His people at Nero's death. Writing after Nero had
fallen, the apostle John, who, as above remarked, alone of the
New Testament writers uses the term, presents us with another
view of Antichrist (1 John 2:18, 1 John 2:22; 1 John 4:3; 2
John 1:7). From the first of these passages ("as ye have heard
that antichrist cometh"), it is evident that the coming of
Antichrist was an event generally anticipated by the Christian
community, but it is also clear that the apostle shared to but
a limited extent in this popular expectation. He thought the
attention of believers needed rather to be directed to the
antichristian forces that were at work among and around them
("even now have .... arisen many antichrists"). From 1 John
2:22; 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7 we see that the apostle regards
erroneous views of the person of Christ as the real Antichrist.
To him the Docetism (i.e. the doctrine that Christ's body was
only a seeming one) which portended Gnosticism, and the elements
of Ebionism (Christ was only a man), were more seriously to be
dreaded than persecution.
WHATEVER...
Wouldn't you know it would be the John guy, crackhead par
excellence of the Xian bible?
So much for the antiC. IIRC, Hollyweird does it so much
better.
MUUUUAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH......
Caiaphas
No Tilly, Christ is available to anyone who will accept Him. This is not an
exclusive club.
Tilly
It just makes you feel exclusive and superior . Do you realiose just how
smug you appear to be?
Tilly
MMW
MMW
Deborah Sharavi
>>Christ is available to anyone who will accept Him. This is
>>not an exclusive club.
>It just makes you feel exclusive and superior . Do you realiose just how
>smug you appear to be?
>Tilly
Does Caiaphas realize if he could travel back in time, actually
meet Jesus and tell him that he accepts him, J might very well
respond, "Magniv, ya tembel, lekh teda."
L Alpert
>
> "Raymond" <NOSPAM-...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bb4cho$ll...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >
> > >
> > > "Nossy" <he...@heavier.net> wrote in message
> > > news:h4madvgqptejercff...@4ax.com...
> > > > G-d's plan is for the redemption of the world and the coming of the
> > > > Messiah. The abomination, the idolatry, the atheist fake Jewish
> > > > Zionist apartheid state is the impediment. May it have a quick and
> > > > peaceful death, amen.
> > > >
> > > > Judaism Yes!
> > > > Zionism No!
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree. I don't see how bringing Jews to force out Palestinians in
> > > modern-day Palestine helps in any way to bring about Gods plan for
> > > redemption of the world. Don't make sense. Perhaps, fundamentalist
> > > Christians and Zionist Jews have misinterpreted Scripture.
> > >
> > More like you just do not know Scripture, and you been misinterpreting
it
> > all along.
> >
>
> Someday we will stand before God knowing.
>
>
Yes, and then you will finally see the light.
L Alpert
>
> "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com> wrote in message
> news:62wBa.24691$Io.20...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > And you will rue the day that you misquoted the G-d of Abraham, Isaac
and
> > Jacob at that point...
>
> And when God tells you that no people are superior to another people, you
> might want to check your pants.
God just doesn't want you to feel bad.
Tilly
> "Jack Kemp" <jack...@doctor.com> wrote in message
> news:62wBa.24691$Io.20...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> And you will rue the day that you misquoted the G-d of Abraham,
>> Isaac and Jacob at that point...
>
> And when God tells you that no people are superior to another people,
> you might want to check your pants.
Why his pants?
Tilly
>
climb...@hotmail.com
Raymond
"Perhaps" means like I said nothing, perhaps this is or perhaps it is not,
then perhaps there is nothing to say about perhaps. Did that help? I see
no law that says Christians have to speak out about injustices and such.
They can do that then perhaps they don't want to. Then perhaps they only
want to speak out about, what is just and correct. Therefore it would be
understood by a positive response, what they want, without speaking out what
is injustices are and do. I ratter say one can be a better person and all
can work out, without any "perhaps" that only bring unbelief and personal
lost.
All things are possiable in Christ Jesus the Bible says, no perhaps.
Raymond
>
>
Jack Kemp
"Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FPwBa.134$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
Caiaphas
> That prove my point rather than yours...
So, you believe you are reformed from your evil ways?
Leonard Pulver
norm...@charter.net
I think, as a former Christian, that it means anyone of evil intent. Norma
Caiaphas
<norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9abc4e06.03060...@posting.google.com...
"former Christian"? What happened?
R.J.Goldman
James
He probably met people like you.
--
On Sept. 12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at half-staff and the
Palestinians were dancing in the streets.
norm...@charter.net
> should have stayed Christian. would save everyone the confusion
Just why would anything I do cause anyone confusion? Apparently, by
your slurs and arrows, I don't matter, except to arouse your anger.
Susan Cohen
> Caiaphas wrote:
>
> > And when God tells you that no people are superior to another people,
> > you might want to check your pants.
>
>
>
> Why his pants?
Looks like "Caiaphas" is finally, er, exposing the....seat...of his
jealousy.
Susan
Caiaphas
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3eda4224$1...@vienna7.his.com...
Susan, honey, you need to be a Jew a while longer. You nowhere have the wit
that many on here have.
Caiaphas
"James" <jme...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_LacnUFXX6O...@comcast.com...
>
> "Caiaphas" <Caiap...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OkmCa.283$Kp6....@eagle.america.net...
> >
> > <norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:9abc4e06.03060...@posting.google.com...
> > > Leonard Pulver <red...@gta.igs.net> wrote in message
> > news:<3ED9779F...@gta.igs.net>...
> > > > MMW wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > just what is an ANTI-CHRIST? someone who dosen't belive in christ?
> > Someone
> > > > > who hates christ?
> > > > >
> > > > > WTF does that even mean?
> > >
> > > I think, as a former Christian, that it means anyone of evil intent.
> > Norma
> >
> > "former Christian"? What happened?
>
> He probably met people like you.
>
Well, maybe if she got to know you better, she would come back to
Christianity.
Tilly
cindys
"R.J. Goldman" <rgol...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C22Ba.50186$nK4....@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com...
> The high priest had another, more controversial function in first-century
> Jerusalem: serving as a sort of liason between Roman authority and the
> Jewish population. High priests, drawn from the Sadducean aristocracy,
---------------
The Sadducees were considered heretics by the Pharisees. I find it ironic
that according to the Christian bible account, it was a Sadducean high
priest who turned Jesus over to Pilate yet the venom of the Christian bible
is directed toward the Pharisees. Just an observation.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Lewis and Komberly
http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/index.htm
Why does he support Islamic terrorism?
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/index.htm
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3ed44b18$1...@vienna7.his.com...
>
> "Norm" <no...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:3ED42EE7...@lvcm.com...
> > Many Jews, worldwide, are getting a bum rap because of Israel's
harsh
> > occupation and oppression of the impoverished Palestinians.
>
> Many Jews, worldwide, are getting a bum rap from idiots who not only make
up
> crap about Israel, but figure they can blame Jews for their evil
fantasies.
>
> Susan
>
>