wave finder
Keith Waller
he'd seen and heard my videologic DAB hi fi reciever but couldn't afford the
£250 this unit costs. the idea was to then take the line out from his sound
card to aux in on his hi fi system. we mistakenly thought that the quality
of the wave finder should be on par with the videologic unit as the wave
finder was a similar price a short while ago. what a mistake after
installing the drivers and setting everything up as per the instructions and
using an external arial would only find a couple of stations and the quality
was appaling would also cut out every few mins, we then tried the wave
finder on my pc and linked the sound card up to the hi fi again only found a
couple of stations and the sound quality was nothing like the videologic
also used the same arial that the videologic is connected to. he has now
returned the wave finder to PC world and is saving up for the videologic
unit. i can only assume that the reason the wavefinders were reduced to this
price was to clear them out as there is no way that they are on par sound
quality wise (or technically) with the videologic or the few other DAB
recievers that are on the market at the moment. by the way both pc's use the
soundblaster live platinums and both the hifi's cost over £3000 each not
Japanese midi / rack systems but Linn / Naim amps and speakers or are we
both wrong in what we thought the quality should be.
Malcolm Knight
news:3c3b2d98$1...@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk...
> by the way both pc's use the
> soundblaster live platinums and both the hifi's cost over £3000 each
not
> Japanese midi / rack systems but Linn / Naim amps and speakers or
are we
> both wrong in what we thought the quality should be.
I wouldn't suggest for a moment that the PC is the weakest link, but
you only have to read a music technology magazine for a month or two
to hear just how poor the SB Platinum card is rated compared to others
of similar or higher price. Something to do with all input/output at
any sampling rate involving resampling to 48k using cheap DACs.
Certainly when I replaced mine the improvements were audibly better -
but clearly your problem goes much deeper than that.
MK
Aztech
news:a1fb1r$451$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Were they using optical links? The DAC on the few grand hi-fi set-up should
be better than a £50-100 sound board.
It's not a failing of the Wavefinder as such, it delivers the MP2 transport
stream the same as any DAB receiver, what you then do with it matters.
Az.
Malcolm Knight
news:VOG_7.1911$AV5.10...@news-text.cableinet.net...
"Yes", and "I agree", but various reviews have said that resampling on
the Soundblaster cannot be bypassed. Not technically a DAC, more of a
'DD'. ;-)
My post wasn't nearly as clear as it should have been, I only wished
to point out that the SoundBlaster card is far from being an
audiophile card (as your reference to Naim and Linn might imply) and
is far from being at the top of the pile as too many PC users seem to
think.
Though I cannot quote you verbatim from the music magazines (I binned
them as part of a New Year clean up) it has certainly been said that
recording to any of the old series SB cards (I know nothing of the
Audiology range introduced a couple of months ago) involves resampling
the incoming datastream whatever the sampling rate of that datastream.
Quite possibly some of the unbranded cards are worse but you mentioned
Linn/Naim etc and the SoundBlaster Platinum might be better compared
with a Sharp or a Pioneer.
As I said, the soundcard isn't the source of your problem but I think
those of us who value audio quality should look in, say, 'Sound on
Sound' for a soundcard rather than 'Computer Shopper'. (UK
publications).
Sorry if I confused you; maybe I was a little OT.
MK
Colin Soames
correction of the Wavefinder must have been working overtime. That said, on
www.wavefinder.com there's a long running thread (which I admit to having
started) discussing the clear musicality of CD-R made from an Arcam DAB 10
source vs. the Wavefinder.
Maybe it was a 50 quid radio all along :-(
CS
Tony Sayer
<dw4...@blueyonder.co.uk> stuck his oar in and spake thus
Seems that that you *expect* quality on a par with your hi-fi with a
wavefinder and a soundblaster!. I would have thought that you would have
spent the moolah on a scale relative to the rest of your system.
Mind you quality is a can of worms these days:-((......
--
Tony Sayer
Starhawk
connected to my Cambridge Audio amp and I am about to upgrade the sound
card.
Chill
Starhawk
"Malcolm Knight" <mal...@abbeyvision.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a1ffol$ej4$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Keith Waller
not sure which one to go for any sugestions?cost not to much of a problem,
as to the last remark i didn't buy the wavefinder my next door neighbour did
as he couldn't afford the £250 fo the videologic unit and we did think that
the reception and sound quality should be on par with the videologic as the
wavefinder started out being more expensive."Tony Sayer"
<tony@bancom_nilspamus_.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XbGGoiBZ...@bancom.co.uk...
Robin Emery
I would also recommend any soundcard in the region of £50 for excellent
digital sound!
Robin Emery
http://www.uk-dab.info
"Starhawk" <star...@moonglum-enterprises-no-spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3mpr7j...@corp.supernews.com...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 02/01/2002
Keith Chadwick
"Starhawk" <star...@moonglum-enterprises-no-spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3mpr7j...@corp.supernews.com...
> connected to my Cambridge Audio amp and I am about to upgrade the sound
> card.
>
> Chill
>
> Starhawk
>
valve amps, no electrolytics on the audio path - that kind of nonsense) I'd
go for a well screened low noise card with minimal DSP, but you are talking
£200+, with something like Echo Mia as a minimal spec.
I still cannot believe that, other than sensitivity, any of the DAB tuners
around can be considered superior to a Wavefinder in a decent hardware
environment with the MP2 data stream processed by a carefully selected
software suite.
At the present time, as well as typing this, I'm recording R1 & R3, and
listening to last night's Late Junction (Tomita - Bolero). When the
recording of R1 & R3 started automatically at 21:55 and 22:05 respectively I
was watching a DVD.
jim
>listening to last night's Late Junction (Tomita - Bolero). When the
>recording of R1 & R3 started automatically at 21:55 and 22:05 respectively I
>was watching a DVD.
>
You mean your not running Anubis as well?
Slacker!
jim
Aztech
news:L9K_7.2292$pI6.13...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> thanks for the remarks have been thinking of changing the sound card but
> not sure which one to go for any sugestions?cost not to much of a problem,
> as to the last remark i didn't buy the wavefinder my next door neighbour
did
> as he couldn't afford the £250 fo the videologic unit and we did think
that
> the reception and sound quality should be on par with the videologic as
the
> wavefinder started out being more expensive.
Price doesn't always mean anything, it's largely to do with what companies
can get away with, that's why people spend £60 on a gold-plated optical
cable, if people are daft enough to buy it then that's the virtue of the
free market. :)
Anyway, providing your reception is alright then the Wavefinder gets the
same MP2 transport stream as your Videologic, if you then play it through
the onboard AC97 sound board and it sounds awful then you can hardly call
that a failing of the Wavefinder ;)
Az.
MCL
are available at PC fairs for about a tenner and they offer full SPDIF in
and out as well as damn fine audio, noticeably better than the ruddy SBLive
series. Also, the SPDIF is not resampled and so the result is a clone of
your original datastream.
It handles SPDIF at 44.1k and 48k and will also do 24bit SPDIF (if
yoursoftware happens to be that perverted...) . Best of all, CMI have
written decent Windows drivers for XP, which is more than they ever did for
2000. The win9x drivers are fine too, but they don't like win2K.
So only hold off if you use win2k. Otherwise, you tell me where else you get
all this for a tenner? Brand names of cards that use this chipset include
the Zoltrix "Nightingale", but there are loads of different brands around.
IMHO the CMI chipset is one of the most unsung heroes of digital recording.
Most vendors at a computer fair don't mind you taking a suspect card out of
its box to read the number off the chipset. DON'T just read the outside of
the box! The boards nearly always have SPDIF out on the main bracket via
phono socket. To use the spdif in you need to connect to headers on the
board itself. However, Zoltrix do a daughterboard/bracket for their card
which has both coax and TOSlink optical ins and outs on it, so they are
serious about digital too.
If you DO use Win2k, I would recommend you download the 2k drivers for the
M-Audio DIO 2448 card (which is 8738-based) and use those. This will allow
you to use the spdif in and out decently, but gives limited functionality on
the WAV audio side. This is because this card is a professional digital-only
card and has no analogue connections. However, when you use the drivers for
it with a "normal" 8738 soundcard the analogue in/outs do work, but with no
frills.
-MCL
"Robin Emery" <robin...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a1fraj$bnj$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
Small-Mountain
purpose/internet PC started giving more and more problems shortly
before Christmas. The PC would crash during Windows 98se start-up when
trying to activate SB16 emulation. The SB Live! series is increadibly
resourse hungry.
Anyway, I popped along to the local computer fair and asked for a "bog
standard pci sound card with minimal resource needs". What I got was a
"tsunami" 4100 which cost £10 and uses said CMI8738 chip. It is quite
amazing for the money.
jim
>The win9x drive I would recommend you download the 2k drivers for the
>M-Audio DIO 2448 card (which is 8738-based) and use those. This will allow
>you to use the spdif in and out decently, but gives limited functionality on
>the WAV audio side. This is because this card is a professional digital-only
>card and has no analogue connections. However, when you use the drivers for
On a streamed Dabbar feed, via winamp 2.78,
my DIO 2448 card in a win 98 machine passes R1/R2/R3/R4
but not WS/test/R5live on the spdif o/p (analogue o/p is fine)
what is going on - any ideas folks? copy protection?
Soundblaster live! spdif is fine...
jim
Starhawk
recording/editing software i.e. CuBase, but these "cheaper" cards/chipsets
sound like just what I need :)
Starhawk
"Starhawk" <star...@moonglum-enterprises-no-spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3mpr7j...@corp.supernews.com...
Malcolm Knight
sound card, it's hard to compete with the ten quid at a boot fair. :-)
My requirements included AES/EBU in and out so I got one form
www.lynxstudio.com. No complaints, apart from costing fifty times boot
fair prices!
MK
"Starhawk" <star...@moonglum-enterprises-no-spam.co.uk> wrote in
message news:u3pjbhs...@corp.supernews.com...
Nick Jeffery
news:3c3cc2ac....@news.ntlworld.com...
> On a streamed Dabbar feed, via winamp 2.78,
>
> my DIO 2448 card in a win 98 machine passes R1/R2/R3/R4
> but not WS/test/R5live on the spdif o/p (analogue o/p is fine)
WS, Test, and R5Live are all mono services.
Perhaps that is the root of the problem?
Try PrimeTime Radio on the Digital1 Multiplex. That is also a 48kHz/mono
service.
Nick.
Malcolm Knight
"Nick Jeffery" <ni...@durge.org> wrote in message
news:101062661...@eos.uk.clara.net...
A typo? PrimeTime is 96k mono here in London. See
www.wohnort.demon.co.uk to confirm that I am not specially privileged.
MK
MCL
-MCL
"Malcolm Knight" <mal...@abbeyvision.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a1jh29$s64$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
jim
>
>Try PrimeTime Radio on the Digital1 Multiplex. That is also a 48kHz/mono
>service.
cheers - that's muted as well...
I'll try an updated driver for the card next.
jim
Richard Lambley
BrynCD...@aol.com (Small-Mountain) wrote:
> Anyway, I popped along to the local computer fair and asked for a "bog
> standard pci sound card with minimal resource needs". What I got was a
> "tsunami" 4100 which cost £10 and uses said CMI8738 chip. It is quite
> amazing for the money.
Another 8738 card is the one which comes with the Chaintech MD Mate
package -- I bought one online for just over ukp30 from
www.optibits.de a year ago. It includes optical input/output
connectors which are handy for connecting a MiniDisc recorder or other
audio kit. They even provide an optical cable.
Richard
--
Tony Sayer
<mal...@abbeyvision.co.uk> stuck his oar in and spake thus
>I didn't get around to answering the direct question of recommending a
>sound card, it's hard to compete with the ten quid at a boot fair. :-)
>
>My requirements included AES/EBU in and out so I got one form
>www.lynxstudio.com. No complaints, apart from costing fifty times boot
>fair prices!
>
>MK
>
--
Tony Sayer
Bancom Communications Ltd U.K. Tel +44 1223 566577 Fax +44 1223 566588
P.O. Box 280, Cambridge, England, CB2 2DY E-Mail to...@bancom.co.uk
TL447-553 52* 10.57'N 0* 6.96 E
Malcolm Knight
> In article <a1ik0e$5i8$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Malcolm Knight
> <mal...@abbeyvision.co.uk> stuck his oar in and spake thus
> >I didn't get around to answering the direct question of
recommending a
> >sound card, it's hard to compete with the ten quid at a boot fair.
:-)
> >
> >My requirements included AES/EBU in and out so I got one form
> >www.lynxstudio.com. No complaints, apart from costing fifty times
boot
> >fair prices!
> >
> >MK
> >
> Err, that URL doesn't seem to go anywhere?...
I've just clicked the URL in my first message and it connected
straight off. That's the internet for you. :-(
So does this one. :-)
MK
Nick Jeffery
> 48kHz/mono
> > service.
>
> A typo? PrimeTime is 96k mono here in London. See
> www.wohnort.demon.co.uk to confirm that I am not specially privileged.
No, not a typo.
I confirm that you have a cloud over the differences between samplerate and
bitrate.
The samplerate, quoted in Hz or (more usually) kHz, is the number of digital
samples per second that are sent to your receiver. The bitrate, quoted in
bits per second or more usually kilo bits per second (kbps or kbit/s) is how
much space on the multiplex there is to send those samples to your receiver.
PrimeTime is a mono service that transmits 48,000 samples per second, at a
data rate of 96,000 bits per second.
Bloomberg is a mono service that transmits 24,000 samples per second, at a
data rate of 48,000 bits per second.
Radio 3 is a discrete stereo service that transmits 48,000 samples per
second, per channel, at a data rate of 192,000 bits per second.
Hope this clears up the confusion.
Nick
--
ni...@durge.org http://wickedbass.net
Mobile: 07941 349 444 Fax: 07989 382 621
The Purple FM Breakfast Show - Starts 1st Feb!
Malcolm Knight
> "Malcolm Knight" <mal...@abbeyvision.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:a1jh29$s64$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> > "Nick Jeffery" <ni...@durge.org> wrote in message
> > news:101062661...@eos.uk.clara.net...
> > > Try PrimeTime Radio on the Digital1 Multiplex. That is also a
> > 48kHz/mono
> > > service.
> >
> > A typo? PrimeTime is 96k mono here in London. See
> > www.wohnort.demon.co.uk to confirm that I am not specially
privileged.
>
> No, not a typo.
>
> I confirm that you have a cloud over the differences between
samplerate and
> bitrate.
I'm afraid you are entitely wrong given the amount of digital pro
audio gear I have lying around here... :-)
...but I'll grant you I was guilty of adding twopenn'orth to a thread
I hadn't been following closely and seeing only the remaining
unsnipped bits took it out of context.
Fell foul of pretty well all the NG sins in one go. :-(
MK
Martin
Starhawk wrote in message ...
>Thanx guys. I was considering a professional style card as I do use a lot
of
>recording/editing software i.e. CuBase, but these "cheaper" cards/chipsets
>sound like just what I need :)
>
>Starhawk
I currently use a Zoltrix Nightingale and can also recommend 8378 based
cards (or motherboards!) for some purposes -
GOOD - As soon as I replaced the SBLive card in my PC, the freezes I'd being
experiencing with both my Wavefinder and tv card just went away (shows what
was the culprit in my system!).
GOOD - The digital in/out is not resampled as Ac97 codec and is a true bit
for bit representation of the data input.
BAD - As has been said driver support isnt the best, and I haven't been able
to turn copyright protection off on the digital out so cant record to
DAT/minidisc (others do though).
BAD - These are bargain price cards - the analogue output is what you'ld
expect from a cheapo chip. It's okay for non-critical listening, but not
exactly hi-fi (or arguably SBlive) standards. So you may be disappointed if
you connect straight to your amp.
If you havent got a digital input to your audio system, reasonably priced
DACs seem to have disappeared from the market, but you may be able to pick
up a second hand unit - there's a Cambridge one going for £50 on Ebay at the
moment.
I've used the DAC in my DAT recorder until now, but am highly impressed with
an M Audio Audiophile 2496 I've borrowed, which comes highly recommended in
home theatre forums. The price though is £170ish. Theres a review of this
and a slightly cheaper Terratec card at
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr01/articles/soundcard.asp. The price of
soundcards with high quality analogue outputs is coming down - the £200
price point mentioned by someone above has certainly been breached.
Martin
Keith Chadwick
when I saw 3D, 5.1 support, and various other on-board processing mentioned
on the box.
I don't understand what the impacts of various on-board processing are on
the resultant audio, don't use 'em myself if I can avoid it, and to one with
my minimalist hifi background they are a turn-off.
I bought a Wavefinder to avoid the doubtless bug-ridden firmware in standard
DAB tuner presentation, and would prefer to do similar with the transducer.
"Martin" <mar...@connelly66.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a1p9mm$bq5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Martin
Keith Chadwick wrote in message
<3c407...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>...
>I nearly bought a Trust 8378 card to play with yesterday (£23), but didn't
>when I saw 3D, 5.1 support, and various other on-board processing mentioned
>on the box.
>
>I don't understand what the impacts of various on-board processing are on
>the resultant audio, don't use 'em myself if I can avoid it, and to one
with
>my minimalist hifi background they are a turn-off.
>
I'm from the same backgound myself Keith, but I wouldn't worry too much
about all the extra gaming stuff. These cards are rarely more than a
straight implementation of the relevant Cmedia chips (see
http://www.cmedia.com.tw ) and all the functionality (including gaming
stuff, DACs) is built in on one chip. If you dont use it it shouldnt affect
the data passe through.
If you would like a "hifi" card based on a Cmedia chip, there's another
Midiman/M-audio card the Dio 2448 which uses this chip. It has a much higher
quality (and expensive) clock than the cheapo boards, hence far less jitter
on SPDIF outputs. The software doesn't implement any of the gaming sound
distorting stuff and I am told is less buggy than the Zoltrix applications.
The card isn't sold on its analogue capabilities - the outputs are straight
from the chip like the cheapo cards. However, just like hi-fi you pay for
this less is more approach and it costs £80 to £100!
No, I'm not a salesman for Midiman - but they do seem to have spotted the
market for affordable, high quality simple stereo cards faster than other
"professional" sound card companies.
Aztech
> I'm from the same backgound myself Keith, but I wouldn't worry too much
> about all the extra gaming stuff. These cards are rarely more than a
> straight implementation of the relevant Cmedia chips (see
> http://www.cmedia.com.tw ) and all the functionality (including gaming
> stuff, DACs) is built in on one chip. If you dont use it it shouldnt
affect
> the data passe through.
>
> If you would like a "hifi" card based on a Cmedia chip, there's another
> Midiman/M-audio card the Dio 2448 which uses this chip. It has a much
higher
> quality (and expensive) clock than the cheapo boards, hence far less
jitter
> on SPDIF outputs. The software doesn't implement any of the gaming sound
> distorting stuff and I am told is less buggy than the Zoltrix
applications.
> The card isn't sold on its analogue capabilities - the outputs are
straight
> from the chip like the cheapo cards. However, just like hi-fi you pay for
> this less is more approach and it costs £80 to £100!
>
> No, I'm not a salesman for Midiman - but they do seem to have spotted the
> market for affordable, high quality simple stereo cards faster than other
> "professional" sound card companies.
Do these boards work with an AC3 pass-thru from a DVD player for instance?
Az.
Starhawk
I'd been looking at the Terratec card, but read a few dodgy reviews of it.
The Audiophile sound interesting and is still within my budget. I'm not
really interested in the software bundles as they are usually stuff that I
don't need or cut down versions of stuff I already have :).
I'm keeping my options open though as I do want to balance the
"professional" sound with the "gaming" sound.
Chill,
Starhawk
"Martin" <mar...@connelly66.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a1p9mm$bq5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...