Petition for Safari tabbed-browsing
C Lund
noe...@forme.com (Carlo Coggi) wrote:
>http://www.petitiononline.com/safaritb/petition.html
>Nearly 2,000 signatures already.
Apple provides a browser that is supposedly the fastest one around and
immediatly people start making demands.
And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
--
C Lund, Oslo
http://www.notam02.no/~clund/
hyst...@mac.com
> In article <1fohopb.x86ffsycukh7N%noe...@forme.com>,
> noe...@forme.com (Carlo Coggi) wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.petitiononline.com/safaritb/petition.html
>
>
>>Nearly 2,000 signatures already.
>
>
> Apple provides a browser that is supposedly the fastest one around and
> immediatly people start making demands.
>
> And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
Wild conjecture: Suppose you were Apple, and had long planned to
include tabbed browsing. (As in, you actually hired the guy who put
it into Mozilla, and then went on to do it again in Chimera.)
You could either include it right away -- and have all of us whiners
concentrate the whining on something ELSE...
...OR, you could save it for later -- and then masterfully demonstrate
how well attuned you are to user feedback!
Sammy
<christopher.lund-14...@amstwist00.chello.com>,
C Lund <christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
> In article <1fohopb.x86ffsycukh7N%noe...@forme.com>,
> noe...@forme.com (Carlo Coggi) wrote:
>
> >http://www.petitiononline.com/safaritb/petition.html
>
> >Nearly 2,000 signatures already.
>
> Apple provides a browser that is supposedly the fastest one around and
> immediatly people start making demands.
If you'd stop bitching and try a tabbed browser, you'd understand and
stop bitching about people requesting tabs in Safari.
>
> And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
If you try a tabbed browser, you'd understand. I'll stick with Chimera
until Safari has tabs. As far as speed goes, I haven't done any tests
myself, but Chimera is very fast. For most pages, I'll bet the
difference between Chimera and Safari isn't that great. Look at the
chart that Jobs showed and you'll see a fairly small difference between
Chimera and Safari. Safari looks promising, but has a ways to go before
I'll give up Chimera. And Chimera is still in development and can only
get better.
dc
Far more important - multithreading in Safari.
I don't like how there's such a slowdown when one page renders and you
have two browser windows open. It's better to have Safari and Chimera
up and have both going at once than to have 2 open Safari windows
going. MSIE6 multithreads very, very well.
C Lund
dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>I don't like how there's such a slowdown when one page renders and you
>have two browser windows open. It's better to have Safari and Chimera
>up and have both going at once than to have 2 open Safari windows
>going.
If that is correct then it is very bad.
dc
<christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
>In article <g53r1v8phbfaub6cj...@4ax.com>,
> dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>
>>I don't like how there's such a slowdown when one page renders and you
>>have two browser windows open. It's better to have Safari and Chimera
>>up and have both going at once than to have 2 open Safari windows
>>going.
>
>If that is correct then it is very bad.
You know, I was going to ask why you didn't know this already, but
then I remembered - you're still running 10.1. (Right?)
Isn't it amazing how fast Jobs can obsolete his OSs? 10.1 is just
what... a year old? Less, even? And already Jobs is "heavily
suggesting" that you pay $120 to upgrade to 10.2 to get a decent
browser!
Amazing....
Dark Paladin
Simple: convienience.
While having the Microsoft "one big window holding smaller windows"
approach is usually ass backwards (in my humble opinion), there are a
few things it works for.
My setup for tabs in Mozilla is that links load in the background, and
new tabs will pop up when I middle mouse click. If I do a search
(say, at Food.com for some chicken soup recipes), instead of clicking
a link, then back because I didn't like it, then another link, or
having windows flying around my screen all cluttered up, I can
middle-click about 5 to 15 different links, and they'll all load in
the background with the tabs in the same browser window. That way, I
can quickly click through them, decide which one I like, and close the
other ones with a quick click (or Command-W/Control-W, depending on if
your using Mozilla or Chimera).
It makes browsing much cleaner - especially for searches, or a page
with 10 links and you want to read them all without clicking back and
forth all day. I highly recommend trying it with either Chimera or
Mozilla (correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive that Opera actually
came out with this first).
Once you go tabs, you never go back. (Wait...I said that to my wife
about something else once....)
Flip
<christopher.lund-DB...@amstwist00.chello.com>,
C Lund <christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
> In article <g53r1v8phbfaub6cj...@4ax.com>,
> dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>
> >I don't like how there's such a slowdown when one page renders and you
> >have two browser windows open. It's better to have Safari and Chimera
> >up and have both going at once than to have 2 open Safari windows
> >going.
>
> If that is correct then it is very bad.
I haven't seen that problem - even on my G3/400.
Flip
wrote:
> In article <v1qts67...@news.supernews.com>,
> Sammy <sa...@xxx.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
> >
> > If you try a tabbed browser, you'd understand.
>
> I tried a tabbed browser. The tab feature didn't do much for me.
>
> Are you familiar with YMMV?
>
I suspect that it's one of those things that you need to use for quite a
while - and if you do, it might have some advantages.
Until Chimera came out, I hadn't seen a tabbed browser that I wanted to
use. With Chimera, I never tried the tabbed feature for more than a few
minutes, so I can't offer any guidance. Perhaps some day I'll get around
to trying it.
C Lund
dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>>If that is correct then it is very bad.
>You know, I was going to ask why you didn't know this already, but
>then I remembered - you're still running 10.1. (Right?)
Right. I'm no believer of getting every single upgrade. I plan to
upgrade to 10.3 when it comes though.
>Isn't it amazing how fast Jobs can obsolete his OSs?
This is the first time it's happened, afaik. I used 7.5.5 for
three-four years before upgrading to 8.1.
> 10.1 is just
>what... a year old? Less, even? And already Jobs is "heavily
>suggesting" that you pay $120 to upgrade to 10.2 to get a decent
>browser!
Actually, OmniWeb is fairly decent most of the time.
>Amazing....
Annoying is more like it. I expect this to be because OS X is a new OS
and things haven't yet settled in place. But if everything Apple makes
from now on requires the latest OS version to run.. well, I'll be
somewhat disappointed.
C Lund
Since dc is the only one complaining about this problem, I'm inclined
to think it has something to do with his setup.
Tony L. Svanstrom
> My setup for tabs in Mozilla is that links load in the background, and
> new tabs will pop up when I middle mouse click. If I do a search
> (say, at Food.com for some chicken soup recipes), instead of clicking
> a link, then back because I didn't like it, then another link, or
> having windows flying around my screen all cluttered up, I can
> middle-click about 5 to 15 different links, and they'll all load in
> the background with the tabs in the same browser window. That way, I
> can quickly click through them, decide which one I like, and close the
> other ones with a quick click (or Command-W/Control-W, depending on if
> your using Mozilla or Chimera).
If people don't like the idea of tabs, then just view it as
preloading/rendering of the pages that you're going to view later.
Works great for image-heavy websites (anyone that didn't think "porn"
when you read that? =D) and slow websites; without it hurting the
websites like automatic preloading can do.
--
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 to...@svanstrom.com =*= #
perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -source svanstrom.com/t`'
dc
<christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
>In article <flippo-BB0050....@nnrp02.earthlink.net>,
> Flip <fli...@mac.com> wrote:
>>In article
>><christopher.lund-DB...@amstwist00.chello.com>,
>> C Lund <christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
>>> In article <g53r1v8phbfaub6cj...@4ax.com>,
>>> dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>>> >I don't like how there's such a slowdown when one page renders and you
>>> >have two browser windows open. It's better to have Safari and Chimera
>>> >up and have both going at once than to have 2 open Safari windows
>>> >going.
>>> If that is correct then it is very bad.
>>I haven't seen that problem - even on my G3/400.
>
>Since dc is the only one complaining about this problem, I'm inclined
>to think it has something to do with his setup.
Or Joe can't replicate the problem. Or he hasn't bothered to try.
dc
wrote:
>C Lund <christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
>
>> Since dc is the only one complaining about this problem, I'm inclined
>> to think it has something to do with his setup.
>
>Since DC is posting with here w/ Forte Agent, I wonder if he even has a
>Mac.
You'd do well to check my entire string of recent posts; several have
been from NW3.3b1.
dc
Hmm... here's some to start you off:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/
http://www.apple.com/applescript/GUI/
http://www.apple.com/applescript/script_editor/beta.html
http://www.apple.com/ical/download/index.html
http://www.apple.com/isync/download/
Hmm...in fact, all software under "Mac OS X" on
http://www.apple.com/software/ requires 10.2 or later....
ZnU
dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
I can reproduce the problem, but it's difficult. I can't find a page in
the wild that takes enough time to render that unresponsiveness is
noticeable. Not even huge pages of nested Slashdot comments.
I need to resort to stuff like the NGLayout stress test pages:
http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/testcases/stress/
--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you
can't get fooled again."
-George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
dc
On what Mac (speed)?
ZnU
zurg
<christopher.lund-14...@amstwist00.chello.com>, C Lund
<christop...@NOSPAMchello.no> wrote:
> And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
It's only a big deal if you have many pages or sites that need to be
opened simultaneously. Doing that in IE means having to load tons of
windows at once and it can get a little annoying. I guess for the
average user, it's no big deal, but if you have that need (and if
you're a web developer by profession, you know what I'm talking about)
then tabs make a world of difference.
--zurg
Bruce Baugh
Flip <fli...@mac.com> wrote:
> I suspect that it's one of those things that you need to use for quite a
> while - and if you do, it might have some advantages.
It also really depends on what sort of browsing you're doing, too.
My work often includes historical, scientific, or other specialized
research, and it is a huge help to me to have 2, or 3, or 7 pages all
accessible right there. One dock entry, but lots of very conveniently
ready pages. I can go back and forth as I need to.
I also read a bunch of weblogs, and sometimes I want to follow links in
one entry through news stories and other commentary, while being able at
any time to return to the original.
I wonder if this correlates with people's reading habits. Some people
read one book for fun at a time; some read several, trading off. I'm a
several-books-active guy, and I liked tabbed browsing. Nobody else is
wrong for having another preference, though, unless they're trying to be
me. :)
--
Writer of Fortune
Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/bruceb/
Blather: http://bbaugh.blogspot.com/
"Everything possible to be believ'd is an image of truth."
ZnU
Bruce Baugh <bba...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <flippo-793719....@nnrp06.earthlink.net>,
> Flip <fli...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > I suspect that it's one of those things that you need to use for quite a
> > while - and if you do, it might have some advantages.
>
> It also really depends on what sort of browsing you're doing, too.
>
> My work often includes historical, scientific, or other specialized
> research, and it is a huge help to me to have 2, or 3, or 7 pages all
> accessible right there. One dock entry, but lots of very conveniently
> ready pages. I can go back and forth as I need to.
>
>
> I also read a bunch of weblogs, and sometimes I want to follow links in
> one entry through news stories and other commentary, while being able at
> any time to return to the original.
Sounds like a great use for Safari's SnapBack feature.
> I wonder if this correlates with people's reading habits. Some people
> read one book for fun at a time; some read several, trading off. I'm a
> several-books-active guy, and I liked tabbed browsing. Nobody else is
> wrong for having another preference, though, unless they're trying to be
> me. :)
I often have multiple pages open at a time, but I much prefer multiple
windows. Until Safari's release, I used Chimera as my primary browser,
and I tried to get into the whole tab thing, but it never really worked
for me.
Larry Fransson
Sammy <sa...@xxx.invalid> wrote:
> Safari looks promising, but has a ways to go before
> I'll give up Chimera. And Chimera is still in development and can only
> get better.
Didn't you notice that the version of Safari you're using is a beta?
That means it too is still under development and very likely to get
better.
--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA
Dennis SCP
> And what's the big deal with tabs anyway?
I would like the tabs if they worked like this:
Abbreviation Bookmark Address
Adobe http://www.adobe.com
a Apple http://www.apple.com
n News
n Macsurfer http://www.macsurfer.com
n CNN http://www.cnn.com/
I don't want to go to adobe when I type 'a' plus return, just because
adobe is in my bookmarks, I want to see Apple's new stuff. So I want
Abbreviation added.
And I want to visit two sites at same time, so I want tabbed browsing.
So when I type 'n' for news I see 'News' and when I press return two
tabs will appear opening both addresses.
The empty 'n' plus 'News' item could be a folder containing both the
Macsurfer and CNN bookmarks. So when you 'load' a folder it opens all
addresses inside as tabs. To help you organize this scheme the browser
would ask:
The abbreviation you choose is already being used. Which is why it was
colored orange. Would you like to open all these pages with the same
abbreviation by making it a collection?
[cancel] [OK]
You cannot open 273 tabs at the same time. Therefore you cannot put an
abbreviation on this folder.
[OK]
When the characters you are typing in the URL bar no longer match any
abbreviation, only then will the browser suggest sites from the
bookmarks and history listings in alphabetical order.
--
Dennis SCP
Sandman
ZnU <z...@acedsl.com> wrote:
Me neither, mainly because it's a really ugly GUI feature. It ruins the
slickness of the browser to have those huge tabs show up.
Maybe if the tabs were smaller, like the ones in the utility palettes of
Photoshop? Hmmm, I don't know.
--
Sandman[.net]
ZnU
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
One idea that I've seen suggested: have something like that drawer that
appears when you simultaneously open multiple images in the Jaguar
version of Preview. That would use more screen space than tabs, of
course, but showing thumbnails of pages seems like a very OS X thing to
do, and it would be quite useful, given how useless some page titles are.
Sandman
ZnU <z...@acedsl.com> wrote:
> > > I often have multiple pages open at a time, but I much prefer multiple
> > > windows. Until Safari's release, I used Chimera as my primary browser,
> > > and I tried to get into the whole tab thing, but it never really worked
> > > for me.
> >
> > Me neither, mainly because it's a really ugly GUI feature. It ruins the
> > slickness of the browser to have those huge tabs show up.
> >
> > Maybe if the tabs were smaller, like the ones in the utility palettes of
> > Photoshop? Hmmm, I don't know.
>
> One idea that I've seen suggested: have something like that drawer that
> appears when you simultaneously open multiple images in the Jaguar
> version of Preview. That would use more screen space than tabs, of
> course, but showing thumbnails of pages seems like a very OS X thing to
> do, and it would be quite useful, given how useless some page titles are.
Good idea (even though titles should also be displayed).
Proteus (IM client) has this function more or less, where you can have your
messages viewed in one window, and the senders are listed in such a drawer
and you can switch the view between them.
--
Sandman[.net]
C Lund
dc <d...@foo.bar> wrote:
>>This is the first time it's happened, afaik. I used 7.5.5 for
>>three-four years before upgrading to 8.1.
(snip stuff)
>Hmm... here's some to start you off:
By "first time it's happened" I was talking about 10.1.x, not iSafari.
Most new software for the mac requires 10.2.
Vincent Vega
Steve Hanson <SteveHa...@aol.com> wrote:
> One product improvement suggestion is made and already C Lund is
> whining that you should all be happy with what you have.
Mmm...I think you read WAY too much into the question. I read it as an
honest request for opinions as to way people liked tabs so much. I don't
like tabs and was interested in reading the answers too. If you read the
whole thread I don't think you'll find it was whining.
Sammy
> I often have multiple pages open at a time, but I much prefer multiple
> windows. Until Safari's release, I used Chimera as my primary browser,
> and I tried to get into the whole tab thing, but it never really worked
> for me.
Try having 5 or 6 overlapping windows opened on a PowerBook and trying
to go from one to the other. Very cumbersome, but very easy with tabs.
Flip
Sammy <sa...@xxx.invalid> wrote:
It's not really _that_ cumbersome. Use the 'Window' menu.
Granted, I can see how tabs might be easier if you have a bunch of
windows open, but the standard way isn't _that_ bad.
Roger Johnstone
Even easier, use the window cycle keyboard shortcut (command-~). This
shortcut works with all Mac OS X programs to move between the open
windows in the current application, but it doesn't seem to be
documented anywhere in Mac Help.
When I'm reading a page and spot a link I want to read I just open it in
a new window behind the current one (use shift-command-click in Safari)
and keep reading.
The one remaining advantage of a tabbed window is that you can see how
many other pages you have waiting to be read.
--
Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
Apple II - FutureCop:LAPD - iMac Game Wizard
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rojaws/
________________________________________________________________________
"That's the thing about people who think they hate computers. What they
really hate is lousy programmers."
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, "Oath of Fealty"
David Eppstein
Roger Johnstone <roj...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> Even easier, use the window cycle keyboard shortcut (command-~). This
> shortcut works with all Mac OS X programs to move between the open
> windows in the current application, but it doesn't seem to be
> documented anywhere in Mac Help
Doesn't work in MT-Newswatcher. Instead it has a Cycle Windows command
in the windows menu and on cmd-comma.
--
David Eppstein UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
epps...@ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
ZnU
<jcorSquawKviday-12...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
"J. Corviday" <jcorSquawKviday@H_excited.com> wrote:
> In article <znu-EC2C29.0...@news.fu-berlin.de>,
> ZnU <z...@acedsl.com> wrote:
> >
> > One idea that I've seen suggested: have something like that drawer that
> > appears when you simultaneously open multiple images in the Jaguar
> > version of Preview. That would use more screen space than tabs, of
> > course, but showing thumbnails of pages seems like a very OS X thing to
> > do, and it would be quite useful, given how useless some page titles are.
>
> The answer to useless page titles is to rename them.
>
> For instance, for one collection of news tabs I name them "National,"
> "World," "Sports," "Biz," "Tech," rather than use the names from the NY
> Times, BBC, etc.
>
> Simple problem, simple solution,
But it only solves the problem with tabs from bookmark sets. It doesn't
solve the problem when you're using multiple tabs instead of multiple
windows for free-form browsing.
Neill McKay
David Eppstein <epps...@ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> In article <3E1F5BD7...@es.co.nz>,
> Roger Johnstone <roj...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > Even easier, use the window cycle keyboard shortcut (command-~). This
> > shortcut works with all Mac OS X programs to move between the open
> > windows in the current application, but it doesn't seem to be
> > documented anywhere in Mac Help
>
> Doesn't work in MT-Newswatcher. Instead it has a Cycle Windows command
> in the windows menu and on cmd-comma.
It works on my system (version 3.2) -- I've just done it twice.
Neill McKay
C Lund
Steve Hanson <SteveHa...@aol.com> wrote:
>Vincent Vega wrote in
><VVega-CC3DBB....@news.bellatlantic.net>:
Vincent, this thread is x-posted to csm.advocacy. Hanson is one of the
more vitriolic Microsoft shills we have in this forum. One of his
tactics is - as you have already noticed - "reading too much into
[comment made by target]" and then embarking on a series of personal
attacks against the author of said comment. An other thread on
csm.advocacy has him doing "your mother" insults because of something
I said about computer games. (Yes Hanson, I replied with the same but
unlike you I'm not proud of it.) Spinning my first post in this thread
as "whining" is typical of him.
Sammy
Flip <fli...@mac.com> wrote:
No, it's not the end of the world. But with tabs, it's all in front of
you. No menus to pull down. No window cycling with command tilde. Just
click on the tab you want and it's there.
It's rare for me to find one specific feature that's a deal breaker, but
that's how I see tabs and won't use a browser that doesn't have it.
Steve Bryan
Navigation pane. At the bottom of the pane there is a checkbox for
"Load opened windows or tabs in the background". Select that checkbox.
Now as you browse a web site there are often hyperlinks that look
interesting but not crucial to reading further in the current page.
Each time you reach one of these links just command click it and
continue reading without interruption. While you are reading the
related links are opening unobtrusively for you to review later when
you have finished reading and all organized in a single window rather
than spread all over your desktop.
One of the less fortunate characteristics of web browsing is that it
can become almost nothing but interruptions. The tabbing interface
allows one to regain continuity without scrificing the ability to
eventually follow up some of those interesting branches.
Erick Bryce Wong
>One of the less fortunate characteristics of web browsing is that it
>can become almost nothing but interruptions. The tabbing interface
>allows one to regain continuity without scrificing the ability to
>eventually follow up some of those interesting branches.
Well, the tabbing interface only allows one to organise related pages
into a single window. One thing that would greatly improve my opinion
of tabs is the ability to transfer tabs between windows, but there may
be lingering patent issues from the Adobe-Macromedia lawsuit :).
Continuity comes from background loading, which is a separate feature
from tabs and predates them by quite a while (in other browsers). I
think it's largely because Mozilla can't do one without the other that
people still think of this benefit as part of tabbed browsing.
-- Erick
Tom Stiller
er...@sfu.ca (Erick Bryce Wong) wrote:
> Steve Bryan <steve...@mac.com> wrote:
> >One of the less fortunate characteristics of web browsing is that it
> >can become almost nothing but interruptions. The tabbing interface
> >allows one to regain continuity without scrificing the ability to
> >eventually follow up some of those interesting branches.
>
> Well, the tabbing interface only allows one to organise related pages
> into a single window.
What do you mean? I can open a new tab and load it with any URL I
choose. The only relation that holds among the open windows is that I
want to be able to switch quickly to any one of them.
--
Tom Stiller
PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
Erick Bryce Wong
> er...@sfu.ca (Erick Bryce Wong) wrote:
>> Steve Bryan <steve...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >One of the less fortunate characteristics of web browsing is that it
>> >can become almost nothing but interruptions. The tabbing interface
>> >allows one to regain continuity without scrificing the ability to
>> >eventually follow up some of those interesting branches.
>>
>> Well, the tabbing interface only allows one to organise related pages
>> into a single window.
>
>What do you mean? I can open a new tab and load it with any URL I
>choose. The only relation that holds among the open windows is that I
>want to be able to switch quickly to any one of them.
I meant that the ONLY advantage to the tabbing interface is its
organisational ability, not that it ONLY lets you open tabs for
materially related pages (which would be ridiculous). If you read
the subsequent context, I was trying to isolate this aspect of tabs
from the non-tab-related ability to load pages in the background.
-- Erick
Tom Stiller
I read and just re-read the subsequent context. I'm not familiar with
the Adobe-Macromedia lawsuit and I don't see how how the "continuity of
background loading" bears on the relationships that I impose on tabbed
window contents. Maybe the organizational ability of a tabbed interface
is its only advantage; how many advantages does it need?
Erick Bryce Wong
> er...@sfu.ca (Erick Bryce Wong) wrote:
>> Tom Stiller <tomst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > er...@sfu.ca (Erick Bryce Wong) wrote:
>> >> Steve Bryan <steve...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >> >One of the less fortunate characteristics of web browsing is that it
>> >> >can become almost nothing but interruptions. The tabbing interface
>> >> >allows one to regain continuity without scrificing the ability to
>> >> >eventually follow up some of those interesting branches.
>> >>
>> >> Well, the tabbing interface only allows one to organise related pages
>> >> into a single window.
>> >What do you mean? I can open a new tab and load it with any URL I
>> I meant that the ONLY advantage to the tabbing interface is its
>
>I read and just re-read the subsequent context. I'm not familiar with
>the Adobe-Macromedia lawsuit and
The lawsuit I was referring to concerned a patent on tabbed windows that
can be docked together. It's not an important point, I just mentioned it
in passing because maybe having tabs that can be moved out of their window
of origin would infringe on such a patent.
>I don't see how how the "continuity of
>background loading" bears on the relationships that I impose on tabbed
>window contents.
I absolutely agree, the continuity of background loading has no relationship
to how you choose to group your tabs together. That's exactly why I called
the previous poster on it. Perhaps I should present the context again, with
some liberal paraphrasing:
1) Someone said "The great thing about tabs is that they restore a sense of
continuity to web browsing."
2) I said "That actually isn't related to tabs. The only thing tabs bring
is an extra layer of organisation. Continuity comes from blah blah..."
3) You said "Huh?", because obviously I didn't express myself clearly.
>Maybe the organizational ability of a tabbed interface
>is its only advantage; how many advantages does it need?
Look, I'm not saying tabbed browsing is an abomination that has justify to
its existence with tremendous benefits. But one of my pet peeves is people
giving undue credit to tabs, because it trivialises the innovations that
some of my favourite non-tabbed browsers made before them. It's kind of
like if someone said "WinXP is great because I can use two monitors." :)
-- Erick
James L. Ryan
(in message <1fohopb.x86ffsycukh7N%noe...@forme.com>):
> http://www.petitiononline.com/safaritb/petition.html
>
> Nearly 2,000 signatures already.
I've been following the various discussions regarding tabbed browsing and am
still not sure what the great benefit would be over what Safari currently can
do.
With Safari I can click on a link and have the result appear either in the
current window or in a new window which can be made to appear either in front
of or in back of the current window. Any of the windows, regardless of where
they are positioned in the layer, can be concurrently loading. At any time I
can switch between the multiplicity of open windows by pointing and clicking
on the wanted selection in the "Window" menu in the system menu bar. The
items in the Window menu use the page titles that appear at the top of each
of the currently active windows. The title also informs me if any window is
in a state of still loading. All of this ability to switch between multiple
windows is available via a single entry point from the menubar.
Having not used a so-called "tabbed" browser, I'm puzzled as to how the
switching facilities provided by tabs are better than what is already
provided in Safari. It would seem, at least to me, that there would be a
disadvantage in that screen real estate which could be of possible benefit,
providing more space for the page being presented, would be diminished.
-- James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft
Larry Bickford
James L. Ryan <talies...@mac.com> wrote [some editing done]:
> I am still not sure what the great benefit would be over what Safari currently can
> do.
> With Safari I can click on a link and have the result appear either in the
> current window or in a new window which can be made to appear either in front
> of or in back of the current window. At any time I can switch between the multiplicity of open windows by pointing and clicking
> on the wanted selection in the "Window" menu in the system menu bar.
> Having not used a so-called "tabbed" browser, I'm puzzled as to how the
> switching facilities provided by tabs are better than what is already
> provided in Safari.
Here's how:
1.Loading new pages in tabs, in the background, is faster than a new
window and uses less CPU time as all the elements on the page are saved
but not drawn until you view it.
2.Switching by clicking on a tab right on the window you are viewing is
faster and more intuitive than grabbing a pull-down list from the menu
bar.
3. The title of the site is right in front of you, not hidden in a
windows list in the menu bar.
4. You can script to go to your favorite sites and have them all loaded
and ready to view---all with one click, instead of a couple of dozen and
a pointer flying all over your screen.
Sure, you can live without tabbed browsing. But if you frequently visit
multiple sites concurrently and you get used to it, it is indispensable.
If you visit one site at a time, it is of no value at all.
Try Chimera Navigator and see for yourself
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chimera/
Personally, I've given Safari a full week of daily use and that's it.
I'm done---for now. It's a great browser and in time will be better, but
Chimera is faster (mostly) more compatable with SSL sites, does better
with font rendering (mostly) and, IMHO, until autofill and keychain is
implemented correctly, it's just not ready for prime-time.
--Larry
--
Dr. Larry Bickford, O.D.
Family Practice Optometry Eye & Vision Care
The EyecareConnection
http://www.eyecarecontacts.comSPAMTRAP
email: larrybic at mac dot com
**Information posted for educational purposes only. Consult with
your doctor for diagnose and treatment of medical issues.
James L. Ryan
(in message <SeeSigForReal-A8B...@news.netlojix.net>):
[kindly responding to my query as to how tabbed browsing would be better than
what is currently provided by Safari]
> Here's how:
>
> 1.Loading new pages in tabs, in the background, is faster than a new
> window and uses less CPU time as all the elements on the page are saved
> but not drawn until you view it.
Question. Does OS-X "draw" the contents of windows that are hidden by other
windows?
> 2.Switching by clicking on a tab right on the window you are viewing is
> faster and more intuitive than grabbing a pull-down list from the menu
> bar.
Possibly so, but I haven't felt that going to the Windows menu has been slow
and non-intuitive.
> 3. The title of the site is right in front of you, not hidden in a
> windows list in the menu bar.
What happens when the titles are long, say (and these are made up, although
I've encountered page titles of a similar nature)
Public Broadcasting System, Schedule of Forthcoming Programs
Public Broadcasting System, Schedule of Today's Programs
> 4. You can script to go to your favorite sites and have them all loaded
> and ready to view---all with one click, instead of a couple of dozen and
> a pointer flying all over your screen.
Can Safari be scripted? (An honest question, as of this moment I do not
know.) If having a list of sites to be loaded at launch time is a desirable
trait, I'm not sure why it has to be keyed to tabbed windows.
> Sure, you can live without tabbed browsing. But if you frequently visit
> multiple sites concurrently and you get used to it, it is indispensable.
> If you visit one site at a time, it is of no value at all.
With Safari I normally have a number of sites concurrently active and haven't
felt that switching amongst them has been a problem.
> Try Chimera Navigator and see for yourself
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chimera
Methinks I'll give Chimera a try. I'll report back to this thread on my
reactions.
> Personally, I've given Safari a full week of daily use and that's it.
> I'm done---for now. It's a great browser and in time will be better, but
> Chimera is faster (mostly) more compatable with SSL sites, does better
> with font rendering (mostly) and, IMHO, until autofill and keychain is
> implemented correctly, it's just not ready for prime-time.
So far the only problems I've had with Safari is a failure to correctly play
the background music for a site I've implemented.
http::/subud-sica.org/
James L. Ryan
(in message <0001HW.BA4F52F6...@news.earthlink.net>):
> So far the only problems I've had with Safari is a failure to correctly play
> the background music for a site I've implemented.
>
> http::/subud-sica.org/
Oops,
that should have been
James L. Ryan
Admittedly pushing the envelope a bit, I opened a series of windows that were
labelled:
BBC NEWS |
BBC NEWS | Africa
BBC NEWS | Americas
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific
BBC NEWS | Business
BBC NEWS | Entertainment
BBC NEWS | Europe
BBC NEWS | Health
BBC NEWS | Middle East
BBC NEWS | News Front Page | World Edition
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature
BBC NEWS | South Asia
BBC NEWS | Technology
BBC NEWS | UK
All of these titles were clearly and fully visible in the Safari "Windows"
menu. What would I have seen in the Chimera tabs? And, how much space would I
have lost from the area devoted to the content of these windows?
The links to all of the above pages can be found at:
Kyle Brown
Keep it to Usenet please <idontre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the most part, tabbed-browsing is a waste, unless you can open the
> new page in a tab, without making the new tab the page being viewed --
> much like iCab's "Open link in background window".
You can. In Chimera and Mozilla. So it's not a waste, then. ;-)
Kyle