Final impressions of Book IV (Spoilers)
DoppleX
I've finally finished iut after around 8 hours of reading, split between last
night and this afternoon. WOW!
The plot here has just gotten much larger in scale. I guess I was worried
about a let down, or a rehashing of previous books, but this one does set a new
tone for the series. JKR has it in for all of us though. Where the book ends
off, we're left rather in limbo until the next book. Voldemort is back,
Dumbledore has split with the ministry of Magic and is marshalling all of his
allies... Of course, Harry is going back to the Dursleys (Probably because of
what was mentioned to be Ancient Magic where he couldn't come under attack at a
relative's house)
The romantic aspects of the book were far less than I had thought. To be
honest, nothing really happened, although I think that the path is cleared for
things to happen in book 5.
The death, probably the most discussed topic in Harry Potter fandom, has
happened. And oh boy were we all wrong! To be honest, I was rather expecting
someone that we cared rather more about to die than Cedric. JKR did what I
mentiond a while back, and took a character that we hadn't heard much about,
and developed him up first so that we would care. To her credit, she does
this very well. It does not seem like Cedric was just plaed in the books so he
could die (Like so many anonymous Star trek crewmen...)
All in all, I loved the book. It kept me guessing (And nervous!) right through
the end. What I was expecting to happen really did not happen, which is
something I like. JKR seems to use foreshadowing more to play games with our
minds than to predict the future. I was almost sure fred or george would be
the one to die when they were both talking about entering the tournament near
the beginning of the Hogwarts term.
The last thing that I found really interesting was the new amount of backstory
involving Snape. He really does seem to be on the side of good, despite his
suspicious nature. I really do hope for some sort of reconciliation between
him and Harry before the end of the series (And believe it will come).
Ah well, this book has taken me for some ride. It was not as easy of a ready
as the first few, largely because of the much darker nature of the story.. It
is, however, a superior book to the first two in terms of plot. It also makes
the HP universe seem much larger, as at last we have siognifigant mention of
the outisde world in the book.
-Daniel
Andy Lewis
<dop...@aol.com> wrote:
> Spoiler space
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> I've finally finished iut after around 8 hours of reading, split between last
> night and this afternoon. WOW!
>
Agreed in full...
> The plot here has just gotten much larger in scale. I guess I was worried
> about a let down, or a rehashing of previous books, but this one does set a
> new
> tone for the series. JKR has it in for all of us though.
[snip]
And then some :-)
>
> The death, probably the most discussed topic in Harry Potter fandom, has
> happened. And oh boy were we all wrong! To be honest, I was rather expecting
> someone that we cared rather more about to die than Cedric. JKR did what I
> mentiond a while back, and took a character that we hadn't heard much about,
> and developed him up first so that we would care. To her credit, she does
> this very well. It does not seem like Cedric was just plaed in the books so
> he could die (Like so many anonymous Star trek crewmen...)
>
As she said: one death that people would "give a damn about".
Wrongfooted us completely, but she was absolutely right.
> The last thing that I found really interesting was the new amount of backstory
> involving Snape. He really does seem to be on the side of good, despite his
> suspicious nature. I really do hope for some sort of reconciliation between
> him and Harry before the end of the series (And believe it will come).
>
Yep - we saw a new side to Snape. No room whatsoever for his personal
prejudices at the end - his mind was completely concerned with what had
to be done - into "professional" mode, for want of a better word.
Going to be very dangerous for him to stay at Hogwarts though - will V
really believe that Dumbledore would allow it, and not see him for a
Death Eater?
> Ah well, this book has taken me for some ride. It was not as easy of a ready
> as the first few, largely because of the much darker nature of the story.. It
> is, however, a superior book to the first two in terms of plot. It also makes
> the HP universe seem much larger, as at last we have siognifigant mention of
> the outisde world in the book.
>
My sentiments exactly. One big question in my mind: Dumbledore.
We've now seen a new side to Dumbledore, and we've seen him at full
power, and he's a major force to be reckoned with. Couple of
disconcerting questions though.
Given his reputation and the abilities we've seen, why didn't he see
through Moody sooner? I really would have thought that he should (OK so
we've known others get away with stuff right under his nose, but
there's always been the suspicion that he was allowing it to happen,
but keeping a lid on things. Not so in this case.
I'm probably crediting him with more powers than he has, but it does
seem odd.
Why the "flash of triumph" in his eyes when Harry told him about
Voldemort being able to touch him?
It's inconceivable that Dumbledore is anything but 110% against
Voldemort. I hope. So could it be that Voldemort has made a tactical
error by touching Harry? That some weakness has been instilled in him
as a result? And as for his reaction immediately after that - it really
has me worried for Harry's future.
What does Dumbledore know that we don't?
And which way is Fudge going to jump? He's had a nice safe time of it
up till now, he's a play-it-safe kind of character, and now he has been
asked to commit himself to some serious risks. His response has been
complete denial of the problem - will he overcome that before it's too
late? Or will Dumbledore simply go around him?
Harry has named Draco's father as a fully fledged Death Eater once
again - and Draco seems to have shown more definately than ever where
his loyalties lie - will this affect his standing in the school (can't
imagine that Snape will be impressed, although he may have to continue
to favour Draco to keep up appearences)
Finally Harry. He was the hero who stopped Voldemort. Now he has
unwittingly been the instrument of his return. How will that affect his
popularity?
Andy
PS Rita. Hehehe Great note to lighten up the ending with :-)
Kalassa
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<< Why the "flash of triumph" in his eyes when Harry told him about
Voldemort being able to touch him?
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I *think* (hoping actually) that this is because Voldemore must have
Kalassa
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Let me try this again :)
<<
Why the "flash of triumph" in his eyes when Harry told him about
Voldemort being able to touch him? >>
I *think*(hoping actually) that Voldemore miscalculated the effect this is
going to have on him. I have no idea how... but I think that Dumbledore sees
something that Voldemort may have missed.
Your comments about Snape led me to wonder how he has felt about Draco all of
the years prior to this now that we know that Snape ran with Lucius. Do you
think that Snape thought Lucius had really gone back to the good side and so he
thought it was OK to favor Draco because he was in Slytherin? Makes Snape's
character much more complicated.
Andy Lewis
I've added spoilers that are more significant than previously in this
thread. DO NOT READ if you haven't finished book 4.
I mean it.
You'll hate yourself.
In article <20000708222700...@ng-ft1.aol.com>, Kalassa
<kal...@aol.com> wrote:
Yeah - there's a lot more to be answered about Snape. I've been
thinking myself round in circles along these lines - too much
double-think.
I'm beginning to get worried about him though, after rereading the
ending. Voldemort's words (paraphrased from memory)
Six absent followers. Three of those are dead. One is still faithful
(meaning Crouch/Moody, although V doesn't realise that he's not going
to last much longer - hehe) One is too cowardly to return (Karachoff or
whatever his name is) - he will be dealt with (wouldn't want to be in
his shoes). One has almost certainly left the fold - he will be killed.
The last one *has* to be Snape - and he's about to resume his
double-agent role at Dumbledore's request. Sounds like Voldemort has a
pretty good idea that Snape betrayed him.
Uh oh.
The end of this book is the first time I've actually cared about Snape.
But he's likely to be in serious trouble. More cautious folk would hide
in the relative safety of Hogwarts, but I have to give him this: he's
never been one to shy away from danger.
Couple more notes:
Rereading the first chapter. Voldemort tells Wormtail that he will be
called upon to do a service that most of his followers would give their
right hand to perform.
I think we can safely say that Voldemort is not without a sense of
humour, nasty as it may be :-)
The opening chapter: we learn that Tom Riddle and his parents were
killed, almost certainly by Voldemort.
Who were they? We know that V.'s "filthy, muggle-born father" left his
mother & child (V) when he found that she was a witch (always blame it
on the parents :-)) but was Tom Riddle (deceased) a) Voldemort's
father, gone back to live with his parents, or b) Voldemort's half
brother, born of a "safe" muggle second wife? Probably not important,
but I'm kind of curious.
And finally - names - Avada Kadavra (think I got it right)
Sounds like what you get if you mix "Abracadabra" and "Cadaver"
Which is pretty apt...
She really does take pains to get those names right, doesn't she?
Andy
S Branford
"Kalassa" <kal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000708222700...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
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> Oops... sorry.. my pinkie hit the wrong button!!!!!!
> Let me try this again :)
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> Why the "flash of triumph" in his eyes when Harry told him about
> Voldemort being able to touch him? >>
>
> I *think*(hoping actually) that Voldemore miscalculated the effect
this is
> going to have on him. I have no idea how... but I think that
Dumbledore sees
> something that Voldemort may have missed.
This could be that it has made Voldemort mortal again. So he can die.
This means we are now back to the stage where a final showdown would
work. Also he contains part of Wormtail, who is in debt to Harry. We
wait and see the effect this will have.
Simon
viktor_krum
mmmmmmmmaaaauuuhhhh!! NEED MORE BOOK!! MORE BOOK NOW!!
[lord spoilermort]
> > The death, probably the most discussed topic in Harry Potter fandom, has
> > happened. And oh boy were we all wrong!
hands up who thought that someone was going to drown during the second
task?? i thought harry would try to rescue herm and ron and one of them
wouldn't make it. i was curled up with pain and tension reading that bit.
> > Ah well, this book has taken me for some ride. It was not as easy of a
ready
> > as the first few, largely because of the much darker nature of the
story.. It
> > is, however, a superior book to the first two in terms of plot. It also
makes
> > the HP universe seem much larger, as at last we have siognifigant
mention of
> > the outisde world in the book.
what impressed me was the way that the clear divide between "good guys" and
"bad guys" is now very much in tatters.
whatever else happens with snape, whatever he says - he remains a bad guy
until he cracks a smile at harry. what else can it really mean to be
"good"?? he may be spying for dumbledore, but what's the point, when he
still gets pleasure from being nasty to his students?
and then there's fudge and crouch (senior) who use such strongarm tactics
that they lower themselves to the level of bad guys. dementors seem to be
like nuclear weapons! it sounds very *reasonable* to say that we ought to
have them to protect us from a nasty enemy, but it still doesn't feel right.
so, people, where DON'T we shop??
voldermart!!
Kalassa
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<< The opening chapter: we learn that Tom Riddle and his parents were
killed, almost certainly by Voldemort.
Who were they? We know that V.'s "filthy, muggle-born father" left his
mother & child (V) when he found that she was a witch (always blame it
on the parents :-)) but was Tom Riddle (deceased) a) Voldemort's
father, gone back to live with his parents, or b) Voldemort's half
brother, born of a "safe" muggle second wife? Probably not important,
but I'm kind of curious.>>
Voldemort tells Harry in Chapter 33 that his father left his mother and went
back to live with his Muggle parents.
Tim Howe
> In article <20000708155758...@ng-fr1.aol.com>, DoppleX
> <dop...@aol.com> wrote:
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<snip>
> We've now seen a new side to Dumbledore, and we've seen him at full
> power, and he's a major force to be reckoned with. Couple of
> disconcerting questions though.
>
> Given his reputation and the abilities we've seen, why didn't he see
> through Moody sooner? I really would have thought that he should (OK so
> we've known others get away with stuff right under his nose, but
> there's always been the suspicion that he was allowing it to happen,
> but keeping a lid on things. Not so in this case.
> I'm probably crediting him with more powers than he has, but it does
> seem odd.
>
Not sure about this but I think he might have seen through him, or at very
least had suspicions. When harry goes up to Dumbledore's office, Dumble
dore makes him wait until after he gets back, without Moody.
> Why the "flash of triumph" in his eyes when Harry told him
about > Voldemort being able to touch him?
>
> It's inconceivable that Dumbledore is anything but 110% against
> Voldemort. I hope. So could it be that Voldemort has made a tactical
> error by touching Harry? That some weakness has been instilled in him
> as a result? And as for his reaction immediately after that - it really
> has me worried for Harry's future.
>
I think that by using Harry's blood Voldemort removed his inability to
touch Harry, but at the same time made himself more vunerable to Harry
himself. Afterall he was reseruccted with Harry's blood. It seems that
Voldemort has an amazing knowledge and control of modern magic, but does
not have a good grasp on Ancient magic. Something that Dumbledore does
have.
> What does Dumbledore know that we don't?
>
> And which way is Fudge going to jump? He's had a nice safe time of it
> up till now, he's a play-it-safe kind of character, and now he has been
> asked to commit himself to some serious risks. His response has been
> complete denial of the problem - will he overcome that before it's too
> late? Or will Dumbledore simply go around him?
>
I don't expect this split to be resolved in book 5. I think that the
magical community will be split between Dumbledore and the ministry.
Furthermore I expect Fudge to either die or to try and side with Voldy.
Not necessarily go over to his side but try and reason with him, something
Dumbledore will not like at all. I suspect that in Book 7 Mr. Weasley
will become minister.
> Harry has named Draco's father as a fully fledged
Death Eater once
> again - and Draco seems to have shown more definately than ever where
> his loyalties lie - will this affect his standing in the school (can't
> imagine that Snape will be impressed, although he may have to continue
> to favour Draco to keep up appearences)
>
I expect that eventually Draco will renounce his father. Dumbledore will
not judge the father and condemn the son. Perhaps this is why Snape
sticks up for him so much. Snape knows what his father is and it serves
double duty. First by staying on Draco's side he keeps himself friendly
with at least one Death Eater, this could come in handy now that Voldy is
back. It gives Snape a path through which he can rejoin the Death Eaters
as a spy. Secondly Snape might hope that he can turn Draco away from
Voldy and his father .
> Finally Harry. He was the hero who stopped Voldemort.
Now he has
> unwittingly been the instrument of his return. How will that affect his
> popularity?
>
I doubt it will at all. Afterall he inadvertantly helped him return and
he successfully fought him. Voldy was unable to control Harry like he did
to so many people, this means that Harry is not only famous but he
deserves it. There will still be people who dislike Harry and people who
like him.
my $.02
Now I can't wait for book 5, I have already read IV twice!
-Tim
p.s. slight error in the book btw. Dudly destroys his playstation at the
beginning of the book. This book takes place in 1994, there were no
playstations yet.
DoppleX
>The opening chapter: we learn that Tom Riddle and his parents were
>killed, almost certainly by Voldemort.
>Who were they? We know that V.'s "filthy, muggle-born father" left his
>mother & child (V) when he found that she was a witch (always blame it
>on the parents :-)) but was Tom Riddle (deceased) a) Voldemort's
>father, gone back to live with his parents, or b) Voldemort's half
>brother, born of a "safe" muggle second wife
Well, I was rather under the impression that Tom Riddle WAS Voldemort. Says
soather clearly in CoS, at the end. He just abandoned that name when he grew
up. What happened is that HE killed his Muggle father and the rest of the
people in the house.
If I made a mistake here, please feel free to correct me ^_^
-Daniel
FabATallpointsonline.com
>> The death, probably the most discussed topic in Harry Potter fandom, has
>> happened. And oh boy were we all wrong! To be honest, I was rather
>expecting
>> someone that we cared rather more about to die than Cedric. JKR did what I
>> mentiond a while back, and took a character that we hadn't heard much
>about,
>> and developed him up first so that we would care. To her credit, she does
>> this very well. It does not seem like Cedric was just plaed in the books
>so
>> he could die (Like so many anonymous Star trek crewmen...)
>>
>As she said: one death that people would "give a damn about".
>Wrongfooted us completely, but she was absolutely right.
>
I disagree. As soon as I knew both Ceddy and Harry would be Co-Champions, I
thought: "Cedric's toast."
Fab
"Fab rants like a butterfly and stings like a bee."~Tja...@allpointsonline.com
Synergy Sucks
Andy Lewis
<dop...@aol.com> wrote:
Just reread Book 4 - had forgotten a couple of bits that clear this up.
Tom Riddle (deceased) = V's dad.
Riddles senior (deceased) = V's grandparents.
Andy
ELurio
>The opening chapter: we learn that Tom Riddle and his parents were
>killed, almost certainly by Voldemort.
>Who were they? We know that V.'s "filthy, muggle-born father" left his
>mother & child (V) when he found that she was a witch (always blame it
>on the parents :-)) but was Tom Riddle (deceased) a) Voldemort's
>father, gone back to live with his parents, or b) Voldemort's half
>brother, born of a "safe" muggle second wife
Well, I was rather under the impression that Tom Riddle WAS Voldemort. Says
soather clearly in CoS, at the end. He just abandoned that name when he grew
up. What happened is that HE killed his Muggle father and the rest of the
people in the house.
If I made a mistake here, please feel free to correct me ^_^
-Daniel >>
Vordmort is Tom Riddle, Jr. hence he killed Tom sr.
eric l.
DoppleX
>
>I disagree. As soon as I knew both Ceddy and Harry would be Co-Champions, I
>thought: "Cedric's toast."
>
>Fab
I think that this was more referring to who we were all guessing would die (Our
national pasttime for the last two months).. And I certainly don't remember
ANYONE saying Cedric would die.
-Daniel
Tim Howe
Actually I think I remember someone guessing Cedric (randomly I think) but
whoever it was kudos to you!
None of us guessed Cedric which goes to show that JK can keep even her
hardcore fans happy.
The real thing was that we were all guessing based on characters we
already cared about and not about characters that were built up in this
book alone. I think we all knew that was a possibility but there would
have been no way to guess at it. C'est la vie.
On the other hand I do recall several bets on the burgeoning Ron /
Hermione relationship.
But what the heck, it was fun.
So, any predictions for book V ?
:)
cheers
-Tim
Joym999
>Well, I was rather under the impression that Tom Riddle WAS Voldemort. Says
>soather clearly in CoS, at the end. He just abandoned that name when he grew
>up. What happened is that HE killed his Muggle father and the rest of the
>people in the house.
I thought that the above was pretty clear, too. The first chapter of Book 4
also rather forcefully informs us of the extent of Voldemort/Riddle's evilness.
Remember, 50 years before, he is still a Hogwarts student, in fact he is Head
Boy, and the Headmaster's favorite. Dumbledore is a young Hogwarts teacher who
is a little suspicious of him, but does not really know what he's up to. In
fact, Voldy has already embarked on serious evil - he has opened the Chamber of
Secrets, resulting in Myrtle's death, framed Hagrid for his actions, and then
while still a teenager (based on the time frame and on the evidence of Frank
the gardener) has killed his father and grandparents.
Rich
>hands up who thought that someone was going to drown during the second
>task?? i thought harry would try to rescue herm and ron and one of them
>wouldn't make it.
::Raises his hand:: I was riveted to that chapter. I really thought the
second trial was the most exciting part of the book. Harry really didnt know
what to do and it really looked like he could fail at it. I was sure either
Ron or Hermione was going to die and I just couldnt believe it.
Have to say I was unimpressed with cedric's death. I just didnt think he was
that memorable/lovable of a character. I had a feeling JKR was going to do
this though. develop a character in this book and kill him off rather than
kill any of the real main characters off
Rich
Jess
"Tim Howe" <th...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.3.96L.100070...@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu...
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, Andy Lewis wrote:
>
> > <dop...@aol.com> wrote:
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Like that Ancient Magic that protects Harry when he's with his relitives. I
had been wondering why Harry wasn't grabbed durring the summer. This was
pretty smart of Dumbledore, but it seems to decrease Harry's chances of
leaving the Dursleys forever. It must be why Dumbledore wouldn't let Harry
go strait to the weasleys for the summer.
> > What does Dumbledore know that we don't?
A lot, I suspect. I think he should of at least told harry whatever was
happining with the blood, but I suppose he has his reasons.And he still
hasn't revealed the reason why Voldy was so intent on killing Harry when he
was a baby.
> > And which way is Fudge going to jump? He's had a nice safe time of it
> > up till now, he's a play-it-safe kind of character, and now he has been
> > asked to commit himself to some serious risks. His response has been
> > complete denial of the problem - will he overcome that before it's too
> > late? Or will Dumbledore simply go around him?
I don't think he'll admit he's wrong. In this book, he's showed his true
colors -- he's just another politition who cares more about staying in
office than in doing what's right.
> I don't expect this split to be resolved in book 5. I think that the
> magical community will be split between Dumbledore and the ministry.
> Furthermore I expect Fudge to either die or to try and side with Voldy.
> Not necessarily go over to his side but try and reason with him, something
> Dumbledore will not like at all. I suspect that in Book 7 Mr. Weasley
> will become minister.
I think you're right.On one side will be Dumbledore's supporters,The "old
gang" Sirius is alerting ( Does anyone know where Arabella Figg was
mentioned before, I swear I've read her name) And the people at the Ministry
who side with the weasleys.Well, Arthur weasly, at least, I think Percy will
be in Fudge's group. I will take a while before Fudge and his See-No-Evil
supporters will even realize people are working against them. I can see
fudge's stupidity getting him killed. I also agree that Mr. Weasly will be
the next Minister.
> Now I can't wait for book 5, I have already read IV twice!
>
> -Tim
I know how you feal. I just finished reading book 4 for the second time a
half hour ago -- now all I can think of is "What happens next?" This is
going to be a tough year. Oh well -- I can still hold out hope that the next
book wont be as hard for her to write, Book 5 may be out in spring instead
of mid-summer.
Elizabeth Naime
> "Tim Howe" <th...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.3.96L.100070...@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu...
> > On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, Andy Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > In article <20000708155758...@ng-fr1.aol.com>, DoppleX
> > > <dop...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Spoiler space
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> > > What does Dumbledore know that we don't?
> A lot, I suspect. I think he should of at least told harry whatever was
> happining with the blood, but I suppose he has his reasons.And he still
Maybe Harry is safer not knowing.
> hasn't revealed the reason why Voldy was so intent on killing Harry when he
> was a baby.
Was there any particular reason, other than making a clean sweep and
knowing that it would upset a mother to watch her child die more than it
would upset an infant to watch its mother die? He's shown himself to be
cruel in petty ways like that. And/Or was it that Harry's father was
unusually gifted, and he wanted to nip the competition in the blood?
Whatever the original motivation, though, I can see Moldy Voldy as
*exactly* the type to nurse a decades-long vendetta simply because it
didn't work. He's never "lost" in that way before.
I agree about Fudge; a fast-talking politician who'd rather cover up and
smooth things over than admit, even to himself, that everything's about to
go to hell in a handbasket. But it will be okay, as Dumbledore clearly
expected this and is ready to go around Fudge immediately.
Oh, I'd hate to see Percy in Fudge's camp if your predictions are correct!
But I have to admit it wouldn't be out of character for him.
Elizabeth Naime
Tim Howe
> Jess (scifi...@home.com) wrote:
Spoiler space. (aka, if you don't want to know about book IV, why are you
reading a message entitled "Final impressions of Book IV"?)
>
> > > > What does Dumbledore know that we don't?
> > A lot, I suspect. I think he should of at least told harry whatever was
> > happining with the blood, but I suppose he has his reasons.And he still
>
> Maybe Harry is safer not knowing.
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Remember from the first book (paraphrasing) "Truth is a dangerous thing
Harry, I will answer your questions unless I have a good reason not to but
I will not, of course, lie"
I expect that whatever the reason it is better for harry not to know for
fear he give something away.
> > hasn't revealed the reason why Voldy was so intent on killing Harry when he
> > was a baby.
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> Was there any particular reason, other than making a clean sweep and
> knowing that it would upset a mother to watch her child die more than it
> would upset an infant to watch its mother die? He's shown himself to be
> cruel in petty ways like that. And/Or was it that Harry's father was
> unusually gifted, and he wanted to nip the competition in the blood?
>
Again from book 1 I have a STRONG suspicion that Voldy's reason for
killing Harry is the crux of the series. Regretfully I do not think we
will find it out until book 6. (I expect we will discover the reason
during Dumbeldore's "lecture" at the end of book 6 as a way to set up book
7) My guess up until this book was that it was Prof. Trelawney's first
real prediction (remember that her prediction about the servant at the end
of PoA was her second). I know, I know, it is very biblical but it works.
After this book I am not as sure. I still think it is significant but now
I think that there is something even darker going on.
> Whatever the original motivation, though, I can see Moldy Voldy as
> *exactly* the type to nurse a decades-long vendetta simply because it
> didn't work. He's never "lost" in that way before.
>
I think that if it does have something to do with the prediction he feels
he needs to destroy Harry just in case, in addition to his decade old
vendetta.
> I agree about Fudge; a fast-talking politician who'd rather cover up and
> smooth things over than admit, even to himself, that everything's about to
> go to hell in a handbasket. But it will be okay, as Dumbledore clearly
> expected this and is ready to go around Fudge immediately.
>
> Oh, I'd hate to see Percy in Fudge's camp if your predictions are correct!
> But I have to admit it wouldn't be out of character for him.
>
Yeah, I haden't thought much about Percy but I think you are correct. I
think he will side with fudge. On the other hand I see Bill Weasley as
becoming a powerful aid to Dumbledore. JK didn't bring him into this book
for the first time on accident. You get the impression that he is a young
but very talented and powerful wizard. He sounds a lot like Harry's dad
in fact. Smart, talented, Head Boy, but cool . . . Dumbeldore's kind of
guy. I won't be surprised if he dies but I think he will be important
regardless. Mabye even become a teacher.
One other passing thought. . . What did harry's parents do for a living?
I get the distinct impression that Sirius at least might have been an
Auror and quite probably lupin also. He seemes to know a lot about Moody
from a professional standpoint. The comment from the fake Moody makes me
wonder if Harry's folks might have been Aurors also.
-Tim
victo...@my-deja.com
ooooh wow i'd forgotten all of this... you're making me feel pretty
certain that harry is related to voldy.
on his mothers side?? or his fathers??
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Elizabeth Naime
> On 10 Jul 2000, Elizabeth Naime wrote:
> > Jess (scifi...@home.com) wrote:
> Spoiler space. (aka, if you don't want to know about book IV, why are you
> reading a message entitled "Final impressions of Book IV"?)
> >
> I expect that whatever the reason it is better for harry not to know for
> fear he give something away.
Either that, or, there may be something he needs to do without knowing
this, or there may be some protection on him that would be damaged by his
knowing this. Knowledge can be a dangerous thing in any case but it can
be even trickier when mixed with magic...
> I think that if it does have something to do with the prediction he feels
> he needs to destroy Harry just in case, in addition to his decade old
> vendetta.
That would be tidier (and I'll have to reread to check out that
prediction). And make sense. But I still hold to the idea ALSO that
Voldemort really doesn't need an excuse to make this an obsession.
However important or unimoportant Harry turns out to be (and of course we
think he'll be pretty important), what really annoys Voldemort is that he
got away, and his victims aren't supposed to do that.
> One other passing thought. . . What did harry's parents do for a living?
I read somewhere that this book would answer the question. It doesn't, at
least not openly. They may have been Aurors, that would be nice.
As far as Sirius and Lupin go... maybe so, maybe no. I think that anyone
old enough to have been a grown wizard during Voldemort's rise to power,
may have picked up some paranoia and done some serious studying on this
defense from dark arts stuff. Knowing that colleagues of yours are dead
because they didn't know enough, or weren't fast enough, would be a
powerful motivator and you might develop a considerable fascination
with Aurors like Moody who know how to fight death eaters and win.
Just a thought, definitely just a thought.
Ray Proven
>Spoiler space
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>>The opening chapter: we learn that Tom Riddle and his parents were
>>killed, almost certainly by Voldemort.
>>Who were they? We know that V.'s "filthy, muggle-born father" left his
>>mother & child (V) when he found that she was a witch (always blame it
>>on the parents :-)) but was Tom Riddle (deceased) a) Voldemort's
>>father, gone back to live with his parents, or b) Voldemort's half
>>brother, born of a "safe" muggle second wife
>
>soather clearly in CoS, at the end. He just abandoned that name when he grew
>up. What happened is that HE killed his Muggle father and the rest of the
>people in the house.
>
in Book 4 that his father left his mother but not before saddling him with the
same ridiculous name (or words to that effect).
--
Ray
A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
Tuxedo Ramen
(FabATallpointsonline.com) wrote:
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>I disagree. As soon as I knew both Ceddy and Harry would be Co-Champions, I
>thought: "Cedric's toast."
Yeah, my thoughts exactly, although prior to reading it i wouldnt have
guessed it would be cedric
--
Tuxedo Ramen's Fun Fact of the randomly determined time period
The citrus soda 7-UP was created in 1929; "7" was selected because the original
containers were 7 ounces. "UP" indicated the direction of the bubbles.
To email me you have to modify that address. I bet you can figure it out though ^^
"
Damn it!! Even my weirdo roommate who's never even been to Usenet except for
that one time he went to a Christina Aguilera group gets into people's sig
files! *goes to sit in the corner*" -Jester
Kimaire
>(Our
>national pasttime for the last two months)
Don't you mean INTERnational past time? ;-)
~KIM~
"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!"
Hound Fan
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>>Well, I was rather under the impression that Tom Riddle WAS Voldemort. Says
>>soather clearly in CoS, at the end. He just abandoned that name when he grew
>>up. What happened is that HE killed his Muggle father and the rest of the
>>people in the house.
>
>I thought that the above was pretty clear, too. The first chapter of Book 4
>also rather forcefully informs us of the extent of Voldemort/Riddle's evilness.
> Remember, 50 years before, he is still a Hogwarts student, in fact he is Head
>Boy, and the Headmaster's favorite. Dumbledore is a young Hogwarts teacher who
>is a little suspicious of him, but does not really know what he's up to. In
>fact, Voldy has already embarked on serious evil - he has opened the Chamber of
>Secrets, resulting in Myrtle's death, framed Hagrid for his actions, and then
>while still a teenager (based on the time frame and on the evidence of Frank
>the gardener) has killed his father and grandparents.
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And he did that at the time not just for "fun", but it provided him
with a little insurance in case he ever needed the "bone of the
father" as one of the three key ingredients for the potion to return
to the body. Ooh -- evil, conniving, and brilliant. What an opponent
for Harry! Let's just hope that he proves a little too smart for his
own good.
Hound Fan
There was just enough unknown in that task to make things really
intense. Perhaps the rumors of someones death were released to
heighten the experience for some readers. Personally, I was sure that
Cho was the one that was going to die there. I thought she would have
fit the criteria of someone that the readers cared about pretty well,
since she was the object of Harry's crush.
Hound Fan
>
>"Tim Howe" <th...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.3.96L.100070...@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu...
>> On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, Andy Lewis wrote:
>>
>> > In article <20000708155758...@ng-fr1.aol.com>, DoppleX
>> > <dop...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Spoiler space
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<snip>
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>I think you're right.On one side will be Dumbledore's supporters,The "old
>gang" Sirius is alerting ( Does anyone know where Arabella Figg was
>mentioned before, I swear I've read her name)
Not sure about the first name, I'll have to dig out Book 1. But back
at the campsite, as they were about to set up the tent, Harry
reminisced how the Dursley's never took him on vacation, but lefr him
with an old neighbor named Mrs. Figg. Then, on entering the tent
(borrowed from Perkins at the office), he noticed a strong resemblance
between the tent and Mrs. Figg's house, down to the strong smell of
cats. Could this be the same woman, set up as an protection for Harry
whenever the Dursley's dumped him off instead of the ancient magic
that was used with them? Wow, that would be something.
> And the people at the Ministry
>who side with the weasleys.Well, Arthur weasly, at least, I think Percy will
>be in Fudge's group. I will take a while before Fudge and his See-No-Evil
>supporters will even realize people are working against them. I can see
>fudge's stupidity getting him killed. I also agree that Mr. Weasly will be
>the next Minister.
>
Sounds like it would work, but there can still be a lot of strange
twists in the next three books.
>
>> Now I can't wait for book 5, I have already read IV twice!
>>
>> -Tim
>
>I know how you feal. I just finished reading book 4 for the second time a
>half hour ago -- now all I can think of is "What happens next?" This is
>going to be a tough year. Oh well -- I can still hold out hope that the next
>book wont be as hard for her to write, Book 5 may be out in spring instead
>of mid-summer.
We can always hope, can't we. I'm reading the story aloud (the second
time) to the kids, which always take longer than than reading for
myself alone. But it does allow me a chance to catch up on things I
missed during the first read, when I was so hooked that it was hard to
put the book down for anything.
Kalassa
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<< On one side will be Dumbledore's supporters,The "old
gang" Sirius is alerting ( Does anyone know where Arabella Figg was
mentioned before, I swear I've read her name) And the people at the Ministry
who side with the weasleys.Well, Arthur weasly, at least, I think Percy will
be in Fudge's group. I will take a while before Fudge and his See-No-Evil
supporters will even realize people are working against them. >>
I think this Percy idea is very interesting. I can see Percy siding with
Fudge, not because of Voldemort, but because he is so blinded by duty he does
not see what is going on in front of him. Who knows? But if that did
happen.... can you imagine the Weasley household? Wow... that would be
difficult.
DoppleX
Someone guessed Cedric?
Whoever you are: Tell us what happens in the next book! Before we die of
anxiety!
(And congrats... Way to guess!)
-Daniel
DoppleX
Yeah, guess so =) Just had to use the cliche. I just had an urge...
-Daniel
Lloyd Davies
Spoiler for book two (Sort of)
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> Vordmort is Tom Riddle, Jr. hence he killed Tom sr.
Don't know if this is a spoiler or not, there is a slight chance there
is somebody in here that may not have read CoS. Anyway, then where did
the "Marvalo" (in book two) come from? Was it just something he threw in
his name so he could properly rearange the letters to say "I Am Lord Voldemort"
Ray Proven
<lloyd....@wku.edu> writes
When Harry meets Tom Riddle in the Chamber of secrets, he says that he
was named Tom after his father and Marvolo after his grandfather (though
whether paternal or maternal I don't know).
--
Ray
How you look depends on where you go.
James Lewallen
> Spoiler Space
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> going to have on him. I have no idea how... but I think that Dumbledore sees
> something that Voldemort may have missed.
I agree. Dumbledore knows something there...
> Your comments about Snape led me to wonder how he has felt about Draco all of
> the years prior to this now that we know that Snape ran with Lucius. Do you
> think that Snape thought Lucius had really gone back to the good side and so he
> thought it was OK to favor Draco because he was in Slytherin? Makes Snape's
> character much more complicated.
Or Snape always knew (or knew there would be a good chance) that old Voldy would be returning so he's been keeping up appearances..? Possibly using Draco to use Lucius to assure Voldy that he is "still loyal" while revising his role of spy?
I have to admit, as much as I haven't been able to stand Snape, I have a new respect for him after book IV. Playing a spy near Voldy -- it doesn't get much more dangerous than that !
James Lewallen
"Rich" <neur...@aol.comstopspam> wrote in message news:20000710130428...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
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> Have to say I was unimpressed with cedric's death. I just didnt think he was
> that memorable/lovable of a character. I had a feeling JKR was going to do
> this though. develop a character in this book and kill him off rather than
> kill any of the real main characters off
I have to admit I was caught off guard. I guess I had gotten so wrapped up in the story and what was happening that I flat forgot I KNEW someone was GOING to die and no one hadn't yet. It was so sudden within the plot, too. You have these great moments where Harry and Cedric help each other out, then agree to share the championship then BAM!!! They are in the middle of a graveyard and Cedric gets murdered! Man! My first thought was "No way!" - the image of him lying there dead. I got over it more when I realized that none of our mainstay characters were going to get whacked. About halfway through, esp. after the scenes in Dumbledore's office where she kept bringing up how old he looked, I was sure it was going to be Dumbledore.
Great writing, and, as usual, a massive roller coaster end!
Tuxedo Ramen
<lewa...@nwol.net> wrote:
>"Kalassa" <kal...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20000708222700...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
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>I have to admit, as much as I haven't been able to stand Snape, I have a new respect for him after book IV. Playing a spy near Voldy -- it doesn't get much more dangerous than that !
I have to agree. He's gotta be one of my favorite characters now.
He's so.. dunno.. complex? VERY interesting personality.