Unexpected Change in Folder Msg
Frank Stearns
missed any replies.
This is UNIX Pine 4.53 on a Solaris machine, VT100 terminal emulator,
shell dailup.
While editing a reply, I will frequently see this message at the bottom of
the Pine session screen:
"Unexpected change in folder. Reloading"
This has happened a lot, sometimes every 10 seconds or so. Perhaps this
corresponds to incoming messages, but best I can tell new incoming
messages seem to be properly identified as such. (But perhaps I should try
turning off the notifier.)
Twice I've gotten a core dump when this has happened (but this represents
something well less than 1% of the instances of seeing the message).
What causes this; should I be concerned?
Thanks,
Frank
--
.
Mark Crispin
> While editing a reply, I will frequently see this message at the bottom of
> the Pine session screen:
>
> "Unexpected change in folder. Reloading"
Is that the exact message? If so, that message is not coming from Pine.
Are you using an IMAP or POP3 server? If so, what implementation of IMAP
server?
> What causes this; should I be concerned?
If Pine core dumps, that is reason for concern, although I suspect that
the underlying cause is a non-compliant IMAP server.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Frank Stearns
>On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Frank Stearns wrote:
>> While editing a reply, I will frequently see this message at the bottom of
>> the Pine session screen:
>>
>> "Unexpected change in folder. Reloading"
>Is that the exact message? If so, that message is not coming from Pine.
Hi Mark -
Sorry, the EXACT message text is this:
Warning: Folder has changed in an unexpected way. Reloading.
This line appears just above the two lines of Pine command menu items at
the bottom of the terminal window.
>Are you using an IMAP or POP3 server? If so, what implementation of IMAP
>server?
IMAP; should be quite recent. Our ISP has been doing some extensive
upgrading of late. I've been with them for nearly 12 years; they more
often than not do the right thing. Is there something specific I should
ask them?
>> What causes this; should I be concerned?
>If Pine core dumps, that is reason for concern, although I suspect that
>the underlying cause is a non-compliant IMAP server.
Okay. Is there something a bit more specific I should recite to their
support folks? (I'll give them a call in the next day or two.)
Thanks again, Mark.
Frank
--
.
Mark Crispin
> Sorry, the EXACT message text is this:
> Warning: Folder has changed in an unexpected way. Reloading.
That message is also not in Pine. It must be coming from your IMAP
server.
What IMAP server implementation?
> IMAP; should be quite recent. Our ISP has been doing some extensive
> upgrading of late. I've been with them for nearly 12 years; they more
> often than not do the right thing. Is there something specific I should
> ask them?
Yes, ask them what IMAP server implementation.
> >If Pine core dumps, that is reason for concern, although I suspect that
> >the underlying cause is a non-compliant IMAP server.
> Okay. Is there something a bit more specific I should recite to their
> support folks?
The first thing we need to do is to indentify the IMAP server
implementation. Then maybe it may be time to make some tests, before we
come to any definite conclusions.
Generally, I have found that ISPs don't like to be told that they bought a
broken IMAP server, especially if they just "upgraded" to it.
Eduardo Chappa
FS> Mark Crispin <M...@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
FS>
FS> >On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Frank Stearns wrote:
FS> >> While editing a reply, I will frequently see this message at the
FS> >> bottom of the Pine session screen:
FS> >>
FS> >> "Unexpected change in folder. Reloading"
FS>
FS> >Is that the exact message? If so, that message is not coming from
FS> >Pine.
FS>
FS> Sorry, the EXACT message text is this:
FS>
FS> Warning: Folder has changed in an unexpected way. Reloading.
FS>
FS> This line appears just above the two lines of Pine command menu items
FS> at the bottom of the terminal window.
Frank,
I found that message in the maildir patch for Pine. This patch is not
supported by anyone as far as I know. It is completely broken and needs
urgent fixes. If you really want to use maildir, do not use Pine, or if
you want to use Pine do not use Maildir (until there is a good patch for
maildir).
If you want to disable the maildir patch simply enter
disable-these-drivers=maildir
in your .pinerc file (although I think there is one thing that will still
break when copying messages between folders, not 100% sure. I really mean
it, the patch is broken, try something else).
Frank Stearns
programmer/plug-in writer for publishing systems. No mail expertise here.
- So far as I know, nothing has been lost when the "folder reload" msg
appears. Is that consistent with your experience, or am I heading for a
major train wreck? (See other question about the patch bypass below.)
- When my ISP upgraded their shell and mail servers, Elm more or less went
away. Kicking and screaming, I went to Pine, but now I REALLY like Pine.
Do I have to go back??
- I have no idea why the maildir and what I assume are the other IMAP dirs
showed up on my account, but they did as soon as my ISP did their shell
and server upgrades. Elm can't seem to find them, and the ISP won't even
talk about Elm anymore. "You're on your own." Not even sure I *could* go
back...
- So, regarding:
>If you want to disable the maildir patch simply enter
>disable-these-drivers=maildir
Will the maildir and IMAP stuff still work if I do this?
Will there be an upgraded patch for whatever this was trying to fix?
Thanks again for all your help, guys. You've made this a far less painful
migration than it would have been otherwise. Don't make me go back!! <g>
Frank
---
Eduardo Chappa <cha...@math.washington.edu> writes:
>Frank,
>disable-these-drivers=maildir
>--
>Eduardo
>http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/
--
.
Eduardo Chappa
FS> Yikes!! You guys are confusing me. I'm just a simple database
FS> programmer/plug-in writer for publishing systems. No mail expertise
FS> here.
FS>
FS> - So far as I know, nothing has been lost when the "folder reload" msg
FS> appears. Is that consistent with your experience, or am I heading
FS> for a major train wreck? (See other question about the patch bypass
FS> below.)
My experience with the maildir patch is very limited, but enough to know
how it works. I've never heard of lost mail.
Let me give you a little bit of background. Mailidr and Pine are related
in the same way that air and water are. Maildir is a way to organize
e-mail in directories instead of files, as is the traditional way in Unix.
Each file in a directory (new, cur, tmp) is a message. Pine (as downloaded
from its main web site) does not support maildir. Several years ago
someone wrote a patch to introduce maildir into pine, this is called the
maildir patch. The person who wrote the patch has not updated this
improvement (this patch is not trying to fix anything, it's trying to gove
Pine a feature that Pine does not have). In the mean time, Pine (and the
underlying library) has changed a lot, and the original patch is not good
anymore for the latest version of Pine (even though it applies without
problem and builds fine).
Among some of the people that like this patch are some ISPs, like yours.
Your ISP probably has not realized that this patch is no good anymore.
This patch was probably written after elm stopped being developed, so
there's probably no patch for elm for maildir.
FS> - When my ISP upgraded their shell and mail servers, Elm more or less
FS> went away. Kicking and screaming, I went to Pine, but now I REALLY
FS> like Pine. Do I have to go back??
No, you can't. You may want to consider using mutt which is similar to elm
and supports maildir or request to your isp that they let you use a format
which is supported by Pine.
FS> >If you want to disable the maildir patch simply enter
FS> >disable-these-drivers=maildir
FS>
FS> Will the maildir and IMAP stuff still work if I do this?
No, maildir will be disabled, so probably this is not something you want
to do. It may cause you some grief. If you had options, this would be a
good one, but it seems like you don't have options, so don't do this.
FS> Will there be an upgraded patch for whatever this was trying to fix?
I don't know, but I find it unlikely. It's not been updated for a while,
so updating it now will be a major change.