Getting the latest perl source is too damn hard!
Dave Rolsky
going to make getting the source trivially easy?
For almost every other major project out there (excluding perhaps the
Linux kernel), getting the latest dev source is ridiculously easy.
You go to the relevant home page, you find out the location of anonymous
CVS or Subversion (or Arch or whatever), you run the command(s) that the
page lists, and poof, you have source.
For Perl, however, it's _way_ harder. First of all, I still haven't done
it, and I've spent a whole five minutes trying to do it! This is not
meant as a joke. Five minutes just trying to figure out how to do this is
_too long_!
I went to perl.org, then followed the "Perl Core Development" link. Then
I followed the "Perl 5" link after that. Now I'm at a page which doesn't
have a "source" link or anything like that, except for links to stable
versions on CPAN (no mention of 5.9.1 even). But I want the latest
source.
Aha, if I click "Documents", it lists "perlhack", which includes
instructions on using rsync partway through the long-ish document.
That was too much work.
So a couple ideas:
- Make a "source" page on the Perl 5 dev site which contains at least:
-- The rsync bits from perlhack
-- a link to http://public.activestate.com/gsar/APC/
-- a link to http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/perlbrowse
-- a link to Andreas' Perl::Repository::APC module
- Finally make the much-threatened switch to Subversion, because making a
patch is going to be a huge PITA now. I suppose I'll have to rsync
_another_ copy of Perl and then diff the two. Great.
If the perl.org pages were in a repo I could access I'd send some patches
(is there a trend here?)
Let's compare this to some other big projects, just for kicks ...
- Python: At www.python.org, you follow the developers link, which then
includes links to "CVS instructions", "CVS browser", and other handy
bits.
- Ruby: At www.ruby-lang.org, there's a "CVS Repositories" link in the
left nav menu, viewable from the very first page I go to!
- PHP: You go to php.net, follow the "Downloads" link, and then look
through way too much small text to notice "instructions on using
anonymous CVS" over in the left column. So, they suck too, but we still
suck a lot worse.
- FreeBSD: "CVS Repository" link in the left nav, visible from the top
page of freebsd.org.
Frankly, we suck compared to other projects. Suck, suck, suck.
-dave
/*=======================
House Absolute Consulting
www.houseabsolute.com
=======================*/
Chip Salzenberg
> This is not meant as a joke. Five minutes just trying to figure out
> how to do this is _too long_!
Not all jokes are intentional.
I know *I'm* laughing.
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <ch...@pobox.com>
"I wanted to play hopscotch with the impenetrable mystery of existence,
but he stepped in a wormhole and had to go in early." // MST3K
Dave Rolsky
> According to Dave Rolsky:
> > This is not meant as a joke. Five minutes just trying to figure out
> > how to do this is _too long_!
>
> Not all jokes are intentional.
>
> I know *I'm* laughing.
Whatever.
If it takes _me_ five minutes, that means it'll take a lot of other people
much longer, because I am not the average developer. I've been subscribed
to p5p for several years, I've contributed patches to _at least_ 20 or so
projects/modules (including the Perl core), I maintain over 20 CPAN
modules (including one that's in the core), I've created and maintain two
.perl.org sites, I've downloaded snapshot releases more than once, and the
list goes on.
So maybe instead of mocking me publically, you could think about what it
means when it takes _me_ five minutes to figure out how to do something
that should be a couple freaking mouse clicks! And I also offered to
submit a patch to the relevant place, so I think that deserves more than a
smart-ass response.
Let's not forget that while most people won't patch the core C code, many
people can offer test and doc patches.
Is there some good reason that getting the source is such a PITA?
John Peacock
> - Finally make the much-threatened switch to Subversion, because making a
> patch is going to be a huge PITA now. I suppose I'll have to rsync
> _another_ copy of Perl and then diff the two. Great.
CLKao is planning on making svk work with VCP, so in a couple of months, it will
be possible to mirror the Perforce repository directly into a local Subversion
repository. I'm still mirroring the repository nightly using apc2svn, but it is
getting increasingly cranky.
As for what _you_ can do _now_, once you rsync one copy, do all of your devel
work in a symlink tree:
md perl.dev
cd perl.dev
../perlrsync/Configure -Dmksymlinks -Dusedevel -D"optimize=-g"
Here's a couple of shell functions which make that easier:
function edit {
if [ -L $1 ]; then
mv $1 $1.orig
cp $1.orig $1
vi $1
else
/bin/vi $1
fi
}
function unedit {
if [ -L $1.orig ]; then
rm $1
mv $1.orig $1
fi
}
replace the "vi" with your favorite poison. Someplace I have a script which
looks for ".orig" in a tree and generates the diff more or less automatically...
HTH
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
Chip Salzenberg
> So maybe instead of mocking me publically, you could think about what it
> means when it takes _me_ five minutes to figure out how to do something
> that should be a couple freaking mouse clicks!
I think perlhack is an acceptable level of obscurity for finding
blead; I don't want people contributing patches to blead unless
they've at least skimmed it. Call me elitist, but I don't want to
advertise perl5-porters in the Pennysaver.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind it if there were a more direct path
from perl.org's front page to perlhack.
Yves Orton
> C code, many
> people can offer test and doc patches.
>
> Is there some good reason that getting the source is such a PITA?
For the record it took me ages to find perlhack. In fact im pretty sure that
somebody had to specifically tell me that instructions to download the
sources were there.
Yves
Rafael Garcia-Suarez
> CLKao is planning on making svk work with VCP, so in a couple of months, it will
> be possible to mirror the Perforce repository directly into a local Subversion
> repository. I'm still mirroring the repository nightly using apc2svn, but it is
> getting increasingly cranky.
And all this neat stuff could be more visible on dev.perl.org.
> Someplace I have a script which
> looks for ".orig" in a tree and generates the diff more or less automatically...
While we're at sharing... here's what I used to use to produce
*readable* patches. (it's a bash function, and requires GNU diff)
mkpatchorig() {
local diffopts
for f in `find . -name '*.orig' | sed s,^\./,,`
do
case `echo $f | sed 's,.orig$,,;s,.*\.,,'` in
c) diffopts=-p ;;
pod) diffopts='-F^=' ;;
*) diffopts= ;;
esac
diff -du $diffopts $f `echo $f | sed 's,.orig$,,'`
done
}
sla...@rezic.de
> mkpatchorig() {
> local diffopts
> for f in `find . -name '*.orig' | sed s,^\./,,`
> do
> case `echo $f | sed 's,.orig$,,;s,.*\.,,'` in
> c) diffopts=-p ;;
> pod) diffopts='-F^=' ;;
> *) diffopts= ;;
> esac
> diff -du $diffopts $f `echo $f | sed 's,.orig$,,'`
> done
> }
-p works fine for .pl and .pm files, so you could add these extensions,
too.
Regards,
Slaven
--
__o Slaven Rezic
_`\<,_ slaven <at> rezic <dot> de
__(_)/ (_)____
______________________________________________________________________________
John Peacock
> While we're at sharing... here's what I used to use to produce
> *readable* patches. (it's a bash function, and requires GNU diff)
>
> mkpatchorig() {
***SNAGGED***
Ooh, that's /much/ nicer than what I use!
H.Merijn Brand
Why do people want unstable sources anyway?
we have great release tarballs, with all the sources handy in one archive,
something many other projects have too (xine, xmms, sylpheed, ...)
If they indeed want to submit patches to the most recent state, yeah - please
help us!, then the access could indeed be made easier by putting the rsync
link more in focus
OTOH I think that we might need more blead snapshots out than the rate we
currently use. Many projects have nightly snapshots (gcc, cygwin, ...) that
one can fetch. Personally I still prefer rsync, even though I have perforce
access, which leaves me absolutely no need for cvs or svn
--
H.Merijn Brand Amsterdam Perl Mongers (http://amsterdam.pm.org/)
using perl-5.6.1, 5.8.3, & 5.9.x, and 809 on HP-UX 10.20 & 11.00, 11i,
AIX 4.3, SuSE 9.0, and Win2k. http://www.cmve.net/~merijn/
http://archives.develooper.com/daily...@perl.org/ per...@perl.org
send smoke reports to: smokers...@perl.org, QA: http://qa.perl.org
Nicholas Clark
> John Peacock wrote:
> > CLKao is planning on making svk work with VCP, so in a couple of months, it will
> > be possible to mirror the Perforce repository directly into a local Subversion
> > repository. I'm still mirroring the repository nightly using apc2svn, but it is
> > getting increasingly cranky.
>
> And all this neat stuff could be more visible on dev.perl.org.
How can we make this happen?
> > Someplace I have a script which
> > looks for ".orig" in a tree and generates the diff more or less automatically...
>
> While we're at sharing... here's what I used to use to produce
> *readable* patches. (it's a bash function, and requires GNU diff)
While these are all very nice and will show up in a mail archive somewhere,
the only person so far whom I've seen actually offering to *patch
documentation* is Dave Rolsky.
A lot of this documentation could be improved, and much that I'd like to,
I can't do it myself, principally because I don't have the time.
So yes please. Please send patches which make it clearer.
Nicholas Clark
Ask Bjoern Hansen
> If the perl.org pages were in a repo I could access I'd send some patches
> (is there a trend here?)
As I replied to your mail to webmaster@, the code and data running the
(www|dev|manyothers).perl.org site is actually in a repository, and it's
possible to install it locally:
http://combust.perl.org/
http://combust.perl.org/install.html
- ask
--
ask bjoern hansen, http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/ !try; do();
Dave Rolsky
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 05:32:51PM +0200, Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote:
> > John Peacock wrote:
> > > CLKao is planning on making svk work with VCP, so in a couple of months, it will
> > > be possible to mirror the Perforce repository directly into a local Subversion
> > > repository. I'm still mirroring the repository nightly using apc2svn, but it is
> > > getting increasingly cranky.
> >
> > And all this neat stuff could be more visible on dev.perl.org.
>
> How can we make this happen?
I'll be sending Ask & Robert some patches pretty soon (today or sometime
in the next couple days, at the latest).
> While these are all very nice and will show up in a mail archive somewhere,
> the only person so far whom I've seen actually offering to *patch
> documentation* is Dave Rolsky.
Actually, I was planning to start by sending patches for dev.perl.org, so
that this stuff is all documented on a "Perl source/dev" page. I can also
send some patches to perlhack. But AFAIC, the web page is more important.
The _modern_ answer to "how to I make a patch for project X" is always
"look at project X's web page" first. For some projects (Subversion, for
example), it may also be followed by "look at documentation X that comes
with the distro".
So having something useful at the dev.perl.org site seems most important
to me.
> A lot of this documentation could be improved, and much that I'd like to,
> I can't do it myself, principally because I don't have the time.
Will do.
Dave Rolsky
> Why do people want unstable sources anyway?
Well, I for one was thinking of writing some tests to exercise the
handling of infinity and NaN for Perl. Now it looks like I'll be patching
perlhack too ;)
I can't speak for anyone else, of course.
> OTOH I think that we might need more blead snapshots out than the rate we
> currently use. Many projects have nightly snapshots (gcc, cygwin, ...) that
> one can fetch. Personally I still prefer rsync, even though I have perforce
> access, which leaves me absolutely no need for cvs or svn
Snapshots are nice, but for people who want to submit patches, being up to
date with the latest source is important. I hate sending a patch against
some release only to be told to resend it against the latest dev code.
Andy Lester
> sometime
> in the next couple days, at the latest).
FWIW, I should be able to update them as well. A list of people with
write-access to the SVN would be nice.
> Actually, I was planning to start by sending patches for dev.perl.org,
> so
> that this stuff is all documented on a "Perl source/dev" page. I can
> also
> send some patches to perlhack. But AFAIC, the web page is more
> important.
One thing you may not know is that many of the pages (at least in
qa.perl.org) are in POD. http://qa.perl.org/foo.html is probably also
available in its source form as /foo.pod.
xoa
--
Andy Lester
an...@petdance.com, AIM:petdance
http://petdance.com/ http://use.perl.org/~petdance/
Andy Lester
> up to
> date with the latest source is important. I hate sending a patch
> against
> some release only to be told to resend it against the latest dev code.
From what I've seen, most patches are done against blead, which you can
get from:
rsync -avz --delete
rsync://ftp.linux.activestate.com/perl-current/ /usr/src/bleadperl
Tels
Moin,
>> Let's not forget that while most people won't patch the core
>> C code, many
>> people can offer test and doc patches.
>>
>> Is there some good reason that getting the source is such a PITA?
>For the record it took me ages to find perlhack. In fact im pretty sure
>that somebody had to specifically tell me that instructions to download
>the sources were there.
<AOL>Me too</AOL>
I think the problem nowadays is that there are 50+ pod files, and the
perldoc is just not coping with the amount of info we have now.
Watch:
perldoc --help
This works only by accident, seeing -h.
perldoc perltoc
Nice, but you won't know about this from perldoc -h or perldoc perldoc!
Also, to find anything you have to read the entire text, there is no
"summary, this pod is for this topic" list at the top. I tried to patch
perltoc but if is automatically generated from a _very_ long and _very_
complicated script and after poking at it for 15 minutes I just gave up).
perldoc helps you only find things you already know about.
It says for instance that -f can be used to look up a function. But what if
I don't know the function or module name yet? In addition, the
function-help gives you a short overview, but not all the details. These
can be found for many things in a different pod (open tutorial for open for
instance), but mostly you are out of look if you don't know or guess this
(and know the pod you actually have to look in).
The thing that is mostly missing is a full-text search over any pod.
te@null:~> perldoc -r source
No documentation found for "source".
te@null:~> perldoc -r blead
No documentation found for "blead".
te@null:~> perldoc perldoc
te@null:~> perldoc -r blead
No documentation found for "blead".
te@null:~> perldoc -r -i blead
No documentation found for "blead".
te@null:~> perldoc -r -i source
No documentation found for "source".
te@null:~> perldoc -q source
[Displays two unrelated topics]
te@null:~> perldoc -q blead
No documentation for perl FAQ keyword `blead' found
Best wishes,
Tels
- --
Signed on Fri Apr 16 15:07:46 2004 with key 0x93B84C15.
Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.
"Now, admittedly, it's critical software. This is the 'let's go kill
people' software." -- Mark A. Welsh III
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Chris Ball
> perldoc perltoc
> Nice, but you won't know about this from perldoc -h or perldoc
> perldoc!
I agree with the rest of your post -- just thought I'd point out that
`perldoc perldoc` *does* link to perltoc in its preamble, and has done
since pre-5.8: <http://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/59376>.
- Chris. (Who tends to get blead source by Googling for "p5p faq" and
then finding "rsync". Putting the rsync string somewhere more easily
findable from dev.perl.org would be great.)
--
Chris Ball <c...@mrao.cam.ac.uk> <http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~cjb/>
Inference Group: <http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/is/>
Tels
Moin,
On Saturday 17 April 2004 17:30, Chris Ball wrote:
> >> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:17:45, Tels <perl_...@bloodgate.com> said:
> > perldoc perltoc
> >
> > Nice, but you won't know about this from perldoc -h or perldoc
> > perldoc!
>
> I agree with the rest of your post -- just thought I'd point out that
> `perldoc perldoc` *does* link to perltoc in its preamble, and has done
> since pre-5.8: <http://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/59376>.
Ooops! I glanced over the output to see if it now does (remember the pre-5.8
days :) and missed it. Sorry!
> - Chris. (Who tends to get blead source by Googling for "p5p faq" and
> then finding "rsync". Putting the rsync string somewhere more easily
> findable from dev.perl.org would be great.)
Cheers,
Tels
- --
Signed on Sat Apr 17 19:53:37 2004 with key 0x93B84C15.
Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.
"Retsina?" - "Ja, Papa?" - "Schach Matt." - "Is gut, Papa."
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Leon Brocard
> If they indeed want to submit patches to the most recent state, yeah - please
> help us!, then the access could indeed be made easier by putting the rsync
> link more in focus
Well before I was silly enough to become pumpking and get keys to the
perforce repository, I used rsync and generally got annoyed that it
stamped over all my changes.
In fact, I've gotten annoyed enough recently that I've been looking at
how feasibly it would be to mirror bleadperl in subversion and
CVS. Subversion is nice, but *everyone* has CVS clients.
So my plan of thought is blead -> Subversion -> CVS so that we don't
loose too much patch information.
So far I've been looking at apc2svn
(http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Repository-APC/) Installing it is a
bit of a pain (patches to come) but it does appear to just work. Then
I was going to use svn2cvs (http://svn2cvs.tigris.org/). If I managed
to get it all to work reliably and fairly cheaply, then I was going to
help Ask/Robrt set it up on svn|cvs.perl.org
But then I went snowboarding and they have no Internet in Switzerland,
honest. Want me to continue looking into this?
Leon
--
Leon Brocard.............................http://www.astray.com/
scribot.................................http://www.scribot.com/
... Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
Richard Foley
> So my plan of thought is blead -> Subversion -> CVS
> So far I've been looking at apc2svn
> I was going to use svn2cvs (http://svn2cvs.tigris.org/).
> But then I went snowboarding and they have no Internet in Switzerland,
> honest. Want me to continue looking into this?
>
Leon,
Get yourself a decent handy (mobile to uk domiciles) with a satellite uplink.
Maybe you could integrate the dish into the snowboard? It might look a bit
strange at first, but once the idea caught on, it could be a new scene.
;-)
Ciao
Richard Foley
---
Ciao - Shorter than Aufwiedersehen
John Peacock
> So far I've been looking at apc2svn
> (http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Repository-APC/) Installing it is a
> bit of a pain (patches to come) but it does appear to just work.
Appearances can be deceiving. The apc2svn code currently doesn't really handle
all of the recent 5.8.x branches, and 5.6.2 is also orphaned, if I remember
correctly. It's going to throw lots of mysterious errors for all of the
branches it doesn't grok. apc2svn _does_ track bleadperl though (which is what
I am using it for), so if that is your only interest you are good to go. Even
though I use it, I don't think it is a good long term solution.
I would suggest waiting a little while until Chia-Liang Kao finishes work on svk
and SVN::Mirror's support for VCP (which he just announced). The good thing
about this method is that it hits the P4 repository directly. If you are on the
<perl-reposi...@perl.org> list (which I would think you would be),
you should see a message from me asking about anonymous P4 access so I can help
CLK test this new feature.
For that matter, you could use VCP (if you can get it installed that is, it has
many prereq's and a few don't want to build ;) now to go directly from P4 to CVS...
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747
Leon Brocard
> I would suggest waiting a little while until Chia-Liang Kao finishes work
> on svk and SVN::Mirror's support for VCP (which he just announced).
Oh, I was going to mention this. This seems a far saner approach. I
shall corner him in the pub next week ;-)
> If you are on the <perl-reposi...@perl.org> list (which I would
> think you would be)
Oooh, a list I'm not on. Sign me up, please.
Leon
--
Leon Brocard.............................http://www.astray.com/
scribot.................................http://www.scribot.com/
... Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here?
Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes
> perldoc perltoc
>
> Nice, but you won't know about this from perldoc -h or perldoc perldoc!
>
> Also, to find anything you have to read the entire text, there is no
> "summary, this pod is for this topic" list at the top. I tried to patch
> perltoc but if is automatically generated from a _very_ long and _very_
> complicated script and after poking at it for 15 minutes I just gave up).
Isn't "perldoc perl" aka "man perl" what you are looking for in this
regard? The toc is just that: a detailed table of contents of the
full set of doc. Explanations of what each section is don't really
belong IMO. (However, if you really wanted to add an explanatory
section at the top, just searching for part of the text from
perltoc.pod's DESCRIPTION section in the buildtoc script would show
you where to patch.
> The thing that is mostly missing is a full-text search over any pod.
Yes. And a full =head/=item only search.
Nicholas Clark
http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.internals/17887
[It's lovely to have some real traffic back on perl5-porters. But I'm fussy
ungrateful curmudgeon and want it all (not just patches, but regression tests
too. With a pony :-)]
Nicholas Clark
Nicholas Clark
> H.Merijn Brand sent the following bits through the ether:
>
> > If they indeed want to submit patches to the most recent state, yeah - please
> > help us!, then the access could indeed be made easier by putting the rsync
> > link more in focus
>
> Well before I was silly enough to become pumpking and get keys to the
> perforce repository, I used rsync and generally got annoyed that it
> stamped over all my changes.
What I've been doing for a long time with both CVS and rsync is keeping a
"clean" directory, from which I make a hardlink tree every time I want to
build perl (or parrot or ponie). GNU cp can do this with cp -lr; for FreeBSD
I wrote a perl script to do it (which strangely enough works just as well on
Solaris, AIX ...)
In fact, for perl I'm making 2 more copies - one of clean source at that
patchlevel, and one more for each configuration I want to play with. This
lets me easily diff between the clean source tree and the working tree to
figure out what I did. It also explains my historical dislike of anything
in the build system that chmod's a file that is in the source tarball (as
it effects my clean tree).
You can't do this with perforce, as its client spec maps a specific local
machine path into the repository.
> But then I went snowboarding and they have no Internet in Switzerland,
> honest. Want me to continue looking into this?
I'd love you (or you and clkao) to figure out how to make this work well.
What I'd like is to have the entire repository on my laptop, so that I
can check things in (and specifically integrate from blead to maint)
while offline, and then have it sync up when I return to civilisation.
(ie surface from the Underground). I realise that this is a little more
than you were actually trying to set up :-)
[but I don't want to stop clkao from trying to make svk do this]
Either that or free wireless on the tube.
Nicholas Clark
Paul Green
> What I'd like is to have the entire
> repository on my laptop, so that I can check things in (and
> specifically integrate from blead to maint) while offline,
> and then have it sync up when I return to civilisation. (ie
> surface from the Underground).
Subversion (subversion.tigris.org) can do this. We've just started using in
on the Samba project and it works wonderfully. I have a complete private
copy of 4 versions of Samba on my laptop. I can download updates made by
other people to my laptop (merging them with my local changes); I can upload
local changes to the repository when I'm ready, and I can generate diffs and
patch files while offline (unlike cvs). I happen to be using the
TortoiseSVN GUI (tortoisesvn.tigris.org) but you can of course also invoke
subversion from a command-line interface. Basically, the only time I need
to be online is to push or pull changes from the repository; all other
normal development activities can be done while offline.
Thanks
PG
--
Paul Green, Senior Technical Consultant,
Stratus Technologies, Maynard, MA USA
Voice: +1 978-461-7557; FAX: +1 978-461-3610
Tim Bunce
> Nicholas Clark [mailto:ni...@ccl4.org] write:
> > What I'd like is to have the entire
> > repository on my laptop, so that I can check things in (and
> > specifically integrate from blead to maint) while offline,
> > and then have it sync up when I return to civilisation. (ie
> > surface from the Underground).
>
> Subversion (subversion.tigris.org) can do this. We've just started using in
> on the Samba project and it works wonderfully. I have a complete private
> copy of 4 versions of Samba on my laptop. I can download updates made by
> other people to my laptop (merging them with my local changes); I can upload
> local changes to the repository when I'm ready, and I can generate diffs and
> patch files while offline (unlike cvs). I happen to be using the
> TortoiseSVN GUI (tortoisesvn.tigris.org) but you can of course also invoke
> subversion from a command-line interface. Basically, the only time I need
> to be online is to push or pull changes from the repository; all other
> normal development activities can be done while offline.
And I've moved DBI and DBD::Oracle into Subversion (svn.perl.org) and
am very happy with the change.
Tim.
Nick Ing-Simmons
>>> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:17:45, Tels <perl_...@bloodgate.com> said:
>
> > perldoc perltoc
>
> > Nice, but you won't know about this from perldoc -h or perldoc
> > perldoc!
>
>I agree with the rest of your post -- just thought I'd point out that
>`perldoc perldoc` *does* link to perltoc in its preamble, and has done
>since pre-5.8: <http://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/59376>.
>
>- Chris. (Who tends to get blead source by Googling for "p5p faq" and
> then finding "rsync". Putting the rsync string somewhere more easily
> findable from dev.perl.org would be great.)
Now we have had this discussion for a while at least googling for
"rsync perl5" suffices ;-)
Dave Rolsky
> Now we have had this discussion for a while at least googling for
> "rsync perl5" suffices ;-)
Or you can to the spiffy new "source" page at
http://dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
Next I'll send patches for perlhack to incorporate some of the scripts and
tips that various people have posted.
H.Merijn Brand
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>
> > Now we have had this discussion for a while at least googling for
> > "rsync perl5" suffices ;-)
>
> Or you can to the spiffy new "source" page at
> http://dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
Wow. Good.
Standing ovation
> Next I'll send patches for perlhack to incorporate some of the scripts and
> tips that various people have posted.
--
John Peacock
> Because just a few hours ago, using the trunk code for SVN-Mirror
> and svk from http://svn.elixus.org/repos/member/clkao/ and the
> CPAN version of VCP (0.9), I have successfully completed this
> operation:
>
> SVK appears to preserve all the logs and revisions just fine,
> and I'm told that cvs:// also works as a mirror target.
You beat me to it! I was going to give this a shot tonight, though I was going
to try to get _all_ of the P4 repository, to see how well it will handle the
other branches. I suspect some variant of Perl::Repository::APC will have to be
crafted, since there are certain binary files that were not (for whatever
reason) loaded into Perforce in the distant past.
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
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Suite H
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301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
Autrijus Tang
> Or you can to the spiffy new "source" page at
> http://dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
Nice!
It amuses me to see this paragraph:
Chia-liang Kao has developed a distributed version control
system called SVK, which allows one to mirror remote
repositories locally and then work with them using standard
version control procedures. Currently, it only supports
remote Subversion repositories, but work is being done to
include support for others, including Perforce. By the time
you read this, that support may be implemented. This will
provide yet another way of working with the Perl source
code.
Because just a few hours ago, using the trunk code for SVN-Mirror
and svk from http://svn.elixus.org/repos/member/clkao/ and the
CPAN version of VCP (0.9), I have successfully completed this
operation:
# with the usual envs like P4PORT and P4CLIENT...
% svk mirror //par/trunk p4://member/autrijus/PAR/... -- --branch-only=trunk
% svk sync //par/trunk
% svk co //par/trunk some/random/path
# make a local branch... (see http://svk.elixus.org/ for details)
% svk cp //par/trunk //par/local
% svk co //par/local some/other/path
SVK appears to preserve all the logs and revisions just fine,
and I'm told that cvs:// also works as a mirror target.
With this, it is already sufficient for a non-committer to
work on the perl source offline and produce patchsets easily.
It may also help committers to make private changes and synchronise
them back as a batch, and/or help migrating APC to Subversion
eventually.
I'm not exactly sure how (and if) that paragraph should be changed
in light of this recent development, though. :-)
Thanks,
/Autrijus/
Horsley Tom
> > http://dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
But now getting the not-latest perl5 source is too hard :-).
A page that is just named "source" ought to mention how
to find the stable versions as well as the bleeding edge.
Dave Rolsky
> I'm not exactly sure how (and if) that paragraph should be changed
> in light of this recent development, though. :-)
I'll change it once there's a new release. Also, we'd need to be able to
access the Perl Perforce repository somehow. I have no idea what the URL
is, nor if there is any sort of anonymous access.
I'll gladly try out SVK with the Perl repo if someone gives me the
necessary info, and then add the instructions in the appropriate spot.
Dave Rolsky
John Peacock
> I'll change it once there's a new release. Also, we'd need to be able to
> access the Perl Perforce repository somehow. I have no idea what the URL
> is, nor if there is any sort of anonymous access.
See 'perldoc Porting/repository.pod'
The short answer is that the Perforce repository is unlikely to ever be
available generally (even as anonymous), since the software is licensed per
concurrent connection and requires an ssh tunnel(and hence a public key
installed). I had to promise I would experiment off hours...
That said, I would like to see a public Subversion repository available, even if
that meant strong-arming my boss into letting me use the corporate T-1 to host it...
Robert Spier
> available, even if that meant strong-arming my boss into letting me
> use the corporate T-1 to host it...
We (perl.org) can host it.. but last I checked there were issues with
apc2svn. Am I on crack? Should I just set it up and let it rip? I'd
like to be able to "fire and mostly forget".
-R
John Peacock
> We (perl.org) can host it.. but last I checked there were issues with
> apc2svn. Am I on crack? Should I just set it up and let it rip? I'd
> like to be able to "fire and mostly forget".
I use apc2svn every night to sync my private repository, and I don't consider it
good enough for public consumption (through no fault of Andreas and Raphael).
I'm perfectly happy to have perl.org host it, and I am also willing/interested
in seeing that happen, probably though the route of svk/SVN::Mirror/VCP.
No one is going to die if this isn't up for a month or two, so I think we should
wait a little while longer while the svk/VCP route has some shakeout...
Randal L. Schwartz
Dave> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>> Now we have had this discussion for a while at least googling for
>> "rsync perl5" suffices ;-)
Dave> Or you can to the spiffy new "source" page at
Dave> http://dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
That doesn't list the activestate maintperl rsync sources, which I
find more useful for my purposes than bleadperl. Can that be added
please?
--
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