MIDI implementation for Windows softsynth
Erich Neuwirth
for the MS GS Wavetable syntehsizer that comes with WinXP?
I need to now how i can change the pan position of the
percussion instruments on channel 10.
I Want to morph them, and the effect gets lost because that
are placed in different positions by default.
Old Nick
<erich.n...@univie.ac.at> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Find another way of doing MIDI..You want to alter it. it's art and Win
could not give a fuck.
So I am not a complete Prick....ask....and either I or other partial
pricks wull respond.
PS. I and the other PPs do know what they are saying.
****************************************************
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
I went on a guided tour not long ago.The guide got
us lost. He was a non-compass mentor.........sorry
........no I'm not.
Jeffery S. Jones
AFAIK you can't -- it doesn't recognize the GS NPRNs, or GS sysex.
I am not sure what the whole mix is -- I'm not even sure (as in your
other question) that it supports reverb.
OTOH -- Roland's own GS softsynth implements the SC88Pro voice set,
controllers, and sysex
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
Erich Neuwirth
I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
Using volume and reverb you can create a nice simulation of a moving sound.
They are supposed to create paths for moving instruments mathematically.
So I need my support material to work on the minimal
midi implementation I can safely assume, and that is the
Windows softsynth.
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
1 - Reverb Send Level);
Don't expect a huge amount of difference in the sound even at maximum value.
Some sounds get fatter, and other sounds have a slapback echo on the attack
followed by an elongated echo effect on the sustained part of the tone.
Try it out for yourself--the reverb effect is supported, but I don't find it
all that dramatic versus the tone without reverb.
"Erich Neuwirth" <erich.n...@univie.ac.at> wrote in message
news:4070795C...@univie.ac.at...
Geoffrey
> I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
> The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
That's an un-safe assumption. There's plenty of Macs in schools too,
especially in the creative departments (art and music).
> So I need my support material to work on the minimal
> midi implementation I can safely assume, and that is the
> Windows softsynth.
Even if they *do* run Windows, don't automatically assume they are
runing Windows XP with the MS-GS softsynth.
What might be a better way to go is have as a *requirement* that the
end-user has QuickTime installed. This has a very good (much better than
the Windows GS thing) GM-capable software wavetable synth, and it is the
same on both Windows and Macintosh. And QuickTime is free.
Geoffrey
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Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
news:1gbs0qu.1f10nh8tnyjl8N@[192.168.0.170]...
> Erich Neuwirth <erich.n...@univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
> > I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
> > The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
>
> That's an un-safe assumption. There's plenty of Macs in schools too,
> especially in the creative departments (art and music).
>
theory, the project could still work on a Mac, provided it can save MIDI
files to a Windows readable format (*.mid), if the main playback machine is
a Windows machine.
> > So I need my support material to work on the minimal
> > midi implementation I can safely assume, and that is the
> > Windows softsynth.
>
> Even if they *do* run Windows, don't automatically assume they are
> runing Windows XP with the MS-GS softsynth.
>
The synth is still available in %system% (C:\Windows\System,
C:\WinNT\System32, or C:\Windows\System32... depending on the specific OS),
under the filename GM16.DLS, or GM.DLS.
It gets installed as part of the OS, or alternatively, as part of a DirectX
upgrade for older operating systems. I even have it on my Windows 98 Second
Edition system running Direct X 8.1--so Windows XP isn't even a requirement.
> What might be a better way to go is have as a *requirement* that the
> end-user has QuickTime installed. This has a very good (much better than
> the Windows GS thing) GM-capable software wavetable synth, and it is the
> same on both Windows and Macintosh. And QuickTime is free.
>
As is the MS GS Wavetable Synth, it's also free. It ships with the OS or is
available via a free downloadable upgrade to a later version of DirectX,
depending on the version of the OS.
The MS GS Wavetable Synth also has several of the Roland GS variation
sounds, as well as several of the Roland GS drumsets. I believe those
patches are identified as Roland Soundcanvas patches.
So, I would expect that the Mac Roland SoundCanvas implementation and the
Windows Roland SoundCanvas implementation should be equivalent in sound
quality.
However, QuickTime downloads now require giving some personal information
before it can even be downloaded, unless someone can find an older version
off of another software package's installation CD-ROM. Free, yes, but very
annoying and grounds for ignoring QuickTime altogether on the Windows side.
Geoffrey
> > > I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
> > > The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
> >
> > That's an un-safe assumption. There's plenty of Macs in schools too,
> > especially in the creative departments (art and music).
> >
> I thought the QuickTime synth had a set of Roland SoundCanvas patches?
The QuickTime synth is *all* SoundCanvas based.
> > Even if they *do* run Windows, don't automatically assume they are
> > runing Windows XP with the MS-GS softsynth.
> It gets installed as part of the OS, or alternatively, as part of a
> DirectX upgrade for older operating systems. I even have it on my Windows
> 98 Second Edition system running Direct X 8.1--so Windows XP isn't even a
> requirement.
Odd. I just checked those locations on my old 98SE box (with DX8.1 also)
and they weren't there.
> > What might be a better way to go is have as a *requirement* that the
> > end-user has QuickTime installed.
> So, I would expect that the Mac Roland SoundCanvas implementation and the
> Windows Roland SoundCanvas implementation should be equivalent in sound
> quality.
Far from it. The QuickTime synth is superior, to my ears.
> However, QuickTime downloads now require giving some personal information
> before it can even be downloaded ...
... which is just an e-mail address, and the checkboxes to have promo
material sent can be unchecked. If you *do* uncheck that checkbox, none
of the details are retained.
It is rare to find anything like this 'free' on the net without being
asked for some kind of marketing information :)
There is nothing to stop one copy of the stand-alone installer being
downloaded and then installed into an entire lab's worth of machines.
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
> Daniel W. Rouse Jr. <dwro...@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>
> > > > I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
> > > > The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
> > >
> > > That's an un-safe assumption. There's plenty of Macs in schools too,
> > > especially in the creative departments (art and music).
> > >
> > I thought the QuickTime synth had a set of Roland SoundCanvas patches?
>
> The QuickTime synth is *all* SoundCanvas based.
>
Either way, that's good to know.
> > > Even if they *do* run Windows, don't automatically assume they are
> > > runing Windows XP with the MS-GS softsynth.
>
> > It gets installed as part of the OS, or alternatively, as part of a
> > DirectX upgrade for older operating systems. I even have it on my
Windows
> > 98 Second Edition system running Direct X 8.1--so Windows XP isn't even
a
> > requirement.
>
> Odd. I just checked those locations on my old 98SE box (with DX8.1 also)
> and they weren't there.
>
My error--on Windows 98SE, it's actually %windir%\system32\drivers. On my
system that's C:\Windows\System32\Drivers.
For the other operating systems, it should be %system%.
> > > What might be a better way to go is have as a *requirement* that the
> > > end-user has QuickTime installed.
>
> > So, I would expect that the Mac Roland SoundCanvas implementation and
the
> > Windows Roland SoundCanvas implementation should be equivalent in sound
> > quality.
>
> Far from it. The QuickTime synth is superior, to my ears.
>
I'll have to A-B test them myself, although I'm currently using the synth
from my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz over the MS GS Wavetable Synth, and I didn't
even consider trying the QuickTime synth.
I didn't really find an obvious way to add the QuickTime synth as a MIDI
device under Windows, so I guess it's time to look that up.
> > However, QuickTime downloads now require giving some personal
information
> > before it can even be downloaded ...
>
> ... which is just an e-mail address, and the checkboxes to have promo
> material sent can be unchecked. If you *do* uncheck that checkbox, none
> of the details are retained.
>
I'd rather they just allowed a direct download, but such is the way of
online businesses.
> It is rare to find anything like this 'free' on the net without being
> asked for some kind of marketing information :)
>
I tend to ignore such applications myself, others may vary.
> There is nothing to stop one copy of the stand-alone installer being
> downloaded and then installed into an entire lab's worth of machines.
>
>
Well that's true, since there are no serial number lockdowns to the free
version (yet).
Jeffery S. Jones
<dwro...@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>The MS GS Wavetable synth does respond to General MIDI controller 91 (Effect
>1 - Reverb Send Level);
>
>Don't expect a huge amount of difference in the sound even at maximum value.
>Some sounds get fatter, and other sounds have a slapback echo on the attack
>followed by an elongated echo effect on the sustained part of the tone.
>
>Try it out for yourself--the reverb effect is supported, but I don't find it
>all that dramatic versus the tone without reverb.
I played around a bit and noticed no change, and likewise nothing
noticeable when the chorus controller was used. It may support
reverb, but it sure isn't much of an effect.
A run through of some NPRNs, and some other GS CC's, also yielded no
effect -- portamento, for example, did nothing.
Anyway, the Microsoft synth is actually a very limited GM
implementation, not really GS, though it does use the basic samples
(and I think some of the instrument set and banks?) from Roland.
On this question itself -- does anyone have a reference to what is
on the MS soft synth? I'd have thought it would have some references,
but I found not with a short web search.
Apple's Quicktime synth seems better, and it is a free download --
but you have to use Apple's player in order to access it. Someone
mentioned that. Of course, you can't rely on anyone having it.
Then there are Win98/95 machines out there which won't have the
Microsoft soft synth (it is linked to DirectX, v8? -- can't recall
which version stuck it in as a system device). I don't know if you'd
worry about your students having older machines, but it could be an
issue.
There are a lot of great non-free MIDI soft synths out there, and
some which are free -- but work to download and install, not everyone
will do that. Wingroove works on older machines, and it supports
reverb.
>"Erich Neuwirth" <erich.n...@univie.ac.at> wrote in message
>news:4070795C...@univie.ac.at...
>> Let me explain a little bit:
>> I am desigining a project for my students for doing music and math.
>> The only thing I can safely assume they will have is Windows.
>> Using volume and reverb you can create a nice simulation of a moving
>sound.
>> They are supposed to create paths for moving instruments mathematically.
>> So I need my support material to work on the minimal
>> midi implementation I can safely assume, and that is the
>> Windows softsynth.
>>
>>
>> Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:31:33 +0200, Erich Neuwirth
>> > <erich.n...@univie.ac.at> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Is there a place where I can find the complete MIDI implementation chart
>> >>for the MS GS Wavetable syntehsizer that comes with WinXP?
--
Barry Graham
"Barry Graham" <btgr...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4071...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
OOPS - sorry about the zip file - I thought I was posting to a binary group.
Tony
apps that should **NEVER** be installed on an audio workstation (which agrees
with my experience). Is the latest version less intrusive?
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
Geoffrey
> In the past I read several tutorials that suggested Quicktime was one of
> those apps that should **NEVER** be installed on an audio workstation
> (which agrees with my experience). Is the latest version less intrusive?
Not really. But then, an audio workstation should also not have any
internet software installed either :)
For a general purpose class lab machine, though, I consider it just as
important to have QuickTime installed as WiMP, RealPlayer (no matter how
much it sucks) DirectX, and a good browser (and IE is not a good
browser).
Clemens Ladisch
> Anyway, the Microsoft synth is actually a very limited GM
> implementation, not really GS, though it does use the basic samples
> (and I think some of the instrument set and banks?) from Roland.
>
> On this question itself -- does anyone have a reference to what is
> on the MS soft synth? I'd have thought it would have some references,
> but I found not with a short web search.
The default samples of Microsoft's software synthesizer (GM.DLS) were
taken directly from the Roland SoundCanvas SC-55. This means that all
variations and drum sets of the SC-55 are available.
But a that time the synthesizer did implement only DLS 1 features, and
DLS 1 has neither velocity cross-switching nor layering, so Microsoft
castrated all multi-layer samples.
Current versions of the software synthesizer do support multiple
layers, but the samples haven't been updated.
The source code of the DirectMusic Software Synthesizer is shipped
with the Windows DDK (in the src\wdm\audio\ddksynth directory). The
only difference to the real one is that reverb has been removed.
It implements the following features:
The usual basic GM controllers:
modulation wheel, pitch bend, volume, expression, pan,
bank select msb & lsb, sustain, poly mode, mono mode,
all notes off, all sounds off, reset all controllers
RPNs: pitch bend range, fine tune, coarse tune
SysExs:
GM Reset
GM Master Volume
GS Reset
GS Receive Channel (40 1x 02)
GS Use for Rhythm (40 1x 15)
GS Scale Tuning (40 1x 40)
XG Reset
In XG mode, instruments in bank MSB 127 are treated as drums
(and that's all that XG mode does).
Regards,
Clemens
Jeffery S. Jones
Thanks. I could have thought of that (the SDK), I didn't find a
text copy of it in a simple link.
It is about as limited as I thought. Roland's VSC55 implements far
more (no longer distributed, the VSC88 versions replaced it).
JB Seattle
you have XP and a fairly fast PC to use DXi softsynths like the Roland
VSC-MP1. The quality of the sound over the VSC88v3 is substantial and is up
there with VST synths.
I have the hardware synths, the SC55, SC88, SC8820 and I find the VSC-MP1
sound is somehow richer than any of my hardware mods. I don't know why that
is but that is what I hear.
You, do however, need a software program that supports DXi or VST. I like
Sonar but then I have used Cakewalk since version 3. But other programs
like Cubase are outstanding.
I have been bugging PGMusic to add DXi support to Powertracks--their
flagship product, Band in a Box, v2004, does support DXi.
Powertracks supporting DXi would open quality softsynth management to a lot
of people not wishing to pay out the high price of Sonar, Cubase, etc.
JB
"Jeffery S. Jones" <jef...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:u2l7701c8ak9h00vf...@4ax.com...
Jay Ricketts
Computer Mag's Computer Muzys, for example. There's another one too -
Kristal? I think that's the name.
Band in a Box does DXi's now, huh? Maybe I should take another look. I
have 8.0, but it's just taking up space since I had to disable my SBLive 3
years ago...
Jay
"JB Seattle" <shno...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wQTcc.87$k05...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
JB Seattle
well.
They have not changed the interface in any substantial way and that is just
fine with me. Frankly it is a pain in the butt to learn a new interface
every time a program upgrades.
Also when Adobe bought out Cool Edit, they did not change the interface so
Adobe Audition is not a new learning experience.
JB
"Jay Ricketts" <jay_ri...@compuware.com> wrote in message
news:40743c0f$1...@10.10.0.241...
JB Seattle
Volvos and living in the suburban housing tracts now.
JB
"Noel" <no.t...@I.dont.want.your.spam> wrote in message
news:vmcf70ppqn04q2iei...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:01:00 GMT, "JB Seattle" <shno...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In order to get some really decent softsynth sound, it is probably wise
if
> >you have XP and a fairly fast PC to use DXi softsynths like the Roland
> >VSC-MP1. The quality of the sound over the VSC88v3 is substantial and is
up
> >there with VST synths.
>
> requirement as the original question was based around a learning
> exercise for students who may not have these (comparitively expensive)
> softsynths installed.
>
>
>