New Mutants Torment
JOSEPH CHARLES
I am beginning to think that nobody at Marvel cares about the New Mutants
anymore. Does *anyone* care about the New Mutants anymore? I won't even
begin to go into the fact that "Weezy" has killed off Warlocke, yet another
of Claremont's original characters, simply because she could not deal with
the complexities of that character. I won't talk about how she destroyed
the character of Magneto, whom Claremont spent YEARS crafting into the most
noble of heroes. The Illyana mess goes without saying...
No, I won't get into any of the Simonson Fiasco, I'll just get to angry
and depressed.
HOWEVER, I have to wonder, why in the world has Rahne grown pointed ears!?
I am pretty sure that Todd McFarlane is responsible for this ridiculous
aspect of her features. The problem is, it has spilled over into the X-Men,
where Jim Lee also drew her with "Spock-ears." I'm sorry, but she is just
a normal little girl with funny hair that won't grow. The ears are
supposed to be normal.
This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened. Way back when
the demon Sym was first introduced in the X-Men, he had a horn sticking
out of his forehead. Somewhere along the line in the New Mutants, the
horn was misinterpreted as a curl of hair, and it stayed that way. Every
single artist after that drew him with this tiny but stylish curl.
Man, it's hopeless... No one cares, no one... :-(
(I don't know why I let these irk me, but they do.)
--
--- Joe Charles, Raytheon Co., MSD Tewksbury, Mass. (jdc@swlvx5)
Disclaimer: "If I seem insensitive to what you are going through,
understand... it's the way I am." -- Mr. Spock
Ryan D Mathews
In article <17...@raybed2.msd.ray.com>, j...@raybed2.msd.ray.com (JOSEPH CHARLES)
> the demon Sym was first introduced in the X-Men, he had a horn sticking
> out of his forehead. Somewhere along the line in the New Mutants, the
> horn was misinterpreted as a curl of hair, and it stayed that way. Every
> single artist after that drew him with this tiny but stylish curl.
You have to remember that S'ym is supposed to be a grotesque parody of
Cerebus the Aardvark (get it? S'ym == Sim?). As such, a curl makes a bit
more sense than a horn.
The way I heard it was that S'ym was Claremont's revenge for Charles X.
Claremont and Wolveroach.
---------- Ryan Mathews
--
Internet : mat...@cs.buffalo.edu
Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs
UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}!
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BKM...@psuvm.psu.edu
Other disturbing problems with the New Mutants include:
1. Rictor's ponytail and uniform. In prior issues he had a cut with the
sides shaved. In one issue it becomes a ponytail. Is this rapid
hair growth a new mutant power? I also liked the individuality of
his leather jacket, but alas that too is gone.
2. The missing members who they are supposed to be going after, but
seldom/never really do. I realize that they are searching for
them, but if everyone else can find mutants...
3. Cannonball always saying he is nearly invunerable when flying.
WE KNOW!
4. Boom Boom.
5. Killing Warlock and keeping Boom Boom.
These are, of course, just my views. I love many of the characters (esp
the late Warlock) but am disappointed by what is being done.
---===>>> Chief <<<===---
Mark A. Lindsay
|I am beginning to think that nobody at Marvel cares about the New Mutants
|anymore. Does *anyone* care about the New Mutants anymore? I won't even
|begin to go into the fact that "Weezy" has killed off Warlocke, yet another
|of Claremont's original characters, simply because she could not deal with
|the complexities of that character. I won't talk about how she destroyed
|the character of Magneto, whom Claremont spent YEARS crafting into the most
|noble of heroes. The Illyana mess goes without saying...
Warlock is no great loss as far as I'm concerned. Actually, with
the way she has been writing the New Mutants, I could care less if most
of them got killed. She took a few teens that were teens first and mutants
second and changed them into one-dimensional characters. Rahne only
talks about Doug and how her beliefs are anymore. The only issue I saw
recently with a semblance of character devlopment was when they first
went to Genosha, and Roberto saw Wolvie & Cable fighting. One of the
major points of the issue was Roberto's struggle with many things other
than the Genoshans. The next issue it went out the window again. I get
highly upset when Marvel starts a fight like Cable/Wolvie and resolves like
"Oh, we like each other, but we like to fight now & then." For once
I thought that wasn't the case. But NOOO, it was a fake fight to keep
readers interested or something. I would be interested if they kept the
fight real and not imaginary.
As far as Magneto goes, Claremont took one page in the X-Men and
ZAP - the character was noble again. He was fooling the Hellfire Club. I
hate inconsistency, but at least he reclaimed Magneto as his own again.
I'm sure there was a big debate (argument) over that. Magneto is much
better as the fallen hero redeemed again than the ruthless villain.
Warlock/Doug will be back anyway. I've been expecting that for
months.
Engineering Computer Network --------------- ma...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
| Mark A. Lindsay |
University of Oklahoma --------------- Veritas Omnia Vincit
JOSEPH CHARLES
>
>
> HOWEVER, I have to wonder, why in the world has Rahne grown pointed ears!?
> I am pretty sure that Todd McFarlane is responsible for this ridiculous
> aspect of her features. The problem is, it has spilled over into the X-Men,
> where Jim Lee also drew her with "Spock-ears." I'm sorry, but she is just
> a normal little girl with funny hair that won't grow. The ears are
> supposed to be normal.
PLEASE!! I pray that I am not too late! NO FLAMES!! I meant Lefield!
Rob Lefield! Am I spelling his name correctly? Yes, I do know the
difference between the two artists, I just can't imagine what I was
thinking... Possibly I was too overcome with angst over the New Mutants
that I was suddenly shocked into thinking of Spiderman. Yeah, that's it.
I have a feeling I'm gonna burn for this one...
Damian Cugley
Message-Id: <1990Sep1...@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
> You have to remember that S'ym is supposed to be a grotesque parody of
> Cerebus the Aardvark (get it? S'ym == Sim?). As such, a curl makes a bit
> more sense than a horn.
> The way I heard it was that S'ym was Claremont's revenge for Charles X.
> Claremont and Wolveroach.
Weird. When I first read the stories with S'ym in, I interpreted his
accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Damian Cugley, Programming Research Group, 11 Keble Rd, Oxford, UK |
| Damian...@prg.oxford.ac.uk =or= ...@oxford.prg in UK |
| "It's a good job there are weekdays between weekends to relax in." |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
KESSNER ERIC M
About the "New Muntants are so bad" cotroversy, or lack there of (I have seen no opinions contrary to the bad point of view). The New Muntants, and the other X-titles are really not all that bad. I've been reading ever since X-Men 94 and I've seen
most earlier isssues. I've watched all the ups and downs, and the X-titles are
no where near as bad as many other comics I've seen.
I think what's missing is the in-depth characterization and family
feeling of the issues of a few years ago. Action has increased, and the heros
never seem to have a day off any more. But, when you think about it, doesn't it
just reflect the way life in the real world has been speeding up? The "dark"
aspects of comics are only reflecting the state that our current society feels
itself to be in. Lets hope someone decides to bring the light back into comics,
cause its real obvious we're all missing it.
Sorry to go metaphysical on you guys!
I AM NOT KESSNER!!!
*----------------------------------------------*
* Damiano di Fiorenza | Eric Kessner *
* Shire of Caer Galen, Kingdom of the Outlands *
* Kes...@tramp.colorado.EDU *
Geoffrey M. Depew
>Weird. When I first read the stories with S'ym in, I interpreted his
>accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
>Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
If you ever get a chance to see the pilot of the _X-Men_ cartoon, Wolverine
is doing the Aussie accent. (So is Pyro, but he IS Australian.) He calls
Toad a "dingo", among other things.
Welcome to Cantralia, boyos.
Lloyd Chalfant
KESSNER ERIC M, says:
<...comment about how the X-titles are not so bad...
I'll agree with you about the X-men at least, I've dropped all the others.
<But, when you think about it, doesn't it just reflect the way life in the
<real world has been speeding up? The "dark" aspects of comics are only
<reflecting the state that our current society feels itself to be in. Lets
<hope someone decides to bring the light back into comics, cause its real
<obvious we're all missing it.
Gotta disagree here. There has been cruelty, injustice, senseless
violence, and despair as long as people have been around. In fact,
people overall are learning to live in a more civilized world nation
environment. What *has* changed has been our permissiveness regarding
the protrayal of violence. The reason comics were lighter in the past
is because that's all we as a society would allow. Look at all the
horror movies billed as "campy" or funny nowadays. Watch any cop program.
It is this thinking that has allowed comics to go the same way. And
in many ways this is good. Comics were too sugary; nobody died, and nobody
killed. (One exception are gang thugs, who like Star Trek security guards,
often did not have long life expectancies 8^). And if a hero died, it was
a sacrifice of the highest nature.
Now we see that deaths are often meaningless (Cypher of the New Mutants,
not counting the rumors I've been hearing) and that more often than not,
it is the innocent who suffer the most (check out the body count of almost
any comic).
I do agree with society's speeding up, which has also expressed itself
by the obsession we have to have everything that our parents had in our
twenties (that is, materialism). I too miss the simpler times, when
heroes didn't agonize over every decision they ever made, when truckloads
of people weren't killed by some psychopath who ends up escaping so that
he can be used again.
<Sorry to go metaphysical on you guys!
My apologies in return.
--
****************************************************************
* Lloyd Chalfant * *
* Applied Research Laboratories * This space for rent. *
* P.O. Box 8029 * *
* Austin, Texas 78713-8029 * *
****************************************************************
Dennis Franczak
hellfire club...What is he doing, where is he now? What's up.
Brian or James
>From: Ryan D Mathews <mat...@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
>Message-Id: <1990Sep1...@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
>
>> You have to remember that S'ym is supposed to be a grotesque parody of
>> Cerebus the Aardvark (get it? S'ym == Sim?). As such, a curl makes a bit
>> more sense than a horn.
>
>> The way I heard it was that S'ym was Claremont's revenge for Charles X.
>> Claremont and Wolveroach.
>
>Weird. When I first read the stories with S'ym in, I interpreted his
>accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
>Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
No, Claremont just can't handle dialects well.
"Eh"<---------- Canadian Content
James Nicoll
Henry Spencer
>accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
>Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
S'ym's slightly odd speech patterns are major exaggerations of minor
(and in some cases regional) differences between Canadian English and
USAnian. :-)
--
TCP/IP: handling tomorrow's loads today| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
OSI: handling yesterday's loads someday| he...@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Jay P Lessler
Is it just me or is Banshee's hair blond in X-MEN, while red in New Mutants?
I noticed the change in this year's annuals, and it looks as if the artists
can't agree what color to keep it.
-Jay Lessler
-jp...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
JOSEPH CHARLES
>About the "New Muntants are so bad" cotroversy, or lack there of (I have
>seen no opinions contrary to the bad point of view). The New Muntants,
>and the other X-titles are really not all that bad. I've been reading
>ever since X-Men 94 and I've seen most earlier isssues. I've watched
>all the ups and downs, and the X-titles are no where near as bad as many
>other comics I've seen.
Yes, I agree. What drives me to the brink of madness :-) is that the X-titles
are nowhere near as good as they used to be, *especially* the New Mutants.
The NM used to be something special, starting around the Demon-Bear
storyline and ending with Louise Simonsen's turn as writer. Over the course
of many issues, Claremont had molded the characters into realistic
individuals, each with their own ideas, wants, and fears. Simonsen, in
her first issue, turned those characters into simplistic charicatures of
who they once were. Not being able to even begin to comprehend
Claremont's original team members, she "killed" them off one by one and
replaced them with cheap imititations, the X-Terminators, from her other
title, X-Factor.
>I think what's missing is the in-depth characterization and family
>feeling of the issues of a few years ago.
Agreed. I think what hurt the title the most, was that with Claremont's
resignation, the continuity with the X-Men was severed. I always felt
that the New Mutants played a vital part in the X-Men's lives. After all,
they lived, worked, played, and fought together for a number of years (or
months, if we are in the Marvel timeline). Claremont was able to keep the
action in the X-Men while he could put the more "intellectual" themes that
he wanted to deal with into the New Mutants. In many ways, the New
Mutants was a much more mature book than the X-Men.
Not only that, but IMHO, the New Mutants contained some of the most
affecting drama ever seen in a Marvel comic. I will never forget the
storyline in which the New Mutants were lost in time, trying to get back
to Xavier's mansion. Claremont showed us a Magneto that no one knew even
existed. Here was a supposed villain, feared by millions, wandering
aimlessly about Xavier's mansion, alone and disheveled, afraid that he
will never see his students again. Here was a man who had endured nothing
but pain and tragedy throughout his entire life. He watched his family
shot to death by Nazi's, the sheer terror of which caused his mutant
ability to manifest itself and deflect the bullets aimed at him. Buried
alive, he knew that he had the power to save them, but could not. He
watched his daughter be burned alive and fall to her death, and in a fit
of rage, he lashed out at her murderers and killed them all, losing his
wife as a result because she thought him a monster. Everything that
Magneto ever loved was lost to him, and with the loss of the New Mutants,
he was alone once more. When asked by Stevie Hunter (I think) why he
bothered staying, he replied that he owed it to the New Mutants to stay
and hope for their safety, as they had unexpectedly brought so much joy
into his life.
I will go on the record as saying that Claremont's Magneto was by far the
most passionate character in the Marvel Universe. If any of you doubt it,
read your back issues of New Mutants and X-Men. For the best effect, read
an X-Men issue first, followed by the corresponding New Mutant issue for
the same month. I believe we first saw Magneto "turn around" in X-Men
150, and then we don't see him again until the New Mutants issue where
Warlocke crashes to Earth, destroying Magneto's Asteroid M and sending him
into the ocean, where he is saved by Lee Forrester in the X-Men title.
He is then recruited into the X-Men/New Mutant family by Xavier, who is
worried about the threat of the Beyonder, from Secret Wars II. At the end
of the double sized "Trial of Magneto" X-Men issue, Xavier is taken aboard
the Starjammer's ship after entrusting the welfare of the New Mutants with
Magneto. From there, we see Magneto mostly in the New Mutants, although
he remains in the X-Men as a background member.
The New Mutants book was something special. It's not anymore, and that's
a terrible shame.
Ernest McCarter
>
> Other disturbing problems with the New Mutants include:
>
>
> These are, of course, just my views. I love many of the characters (esp
> the late Warlock) but am disappointed by what is being done.
Actually, as far as the New Mutants go, I always kind of liked
Boom Boom...
But, then again, I'm not terribly fond of any of the mutants
in general.
--
mic...@brahms.udel.edu * "There was a point to this story, but it has
-------------------------- * temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
mic...@sun.udel.edu * -DISCLAIMER by Douglas Adams
Captain's Log: Stardate unknown. A mysterious force has seized the computer.
Ernest McCarter
> I've been away from X-men for about 1 year...When Magneto left to join
> hellfire club...What is he doing, where is he now? What's up.
Magneto has been a busy guy since then. A cursory view of what
one of Marvel's coolest villains has been doing follows.
Let's see...
I guess first there was the whole business with Acts of Vengeance, which
is much to long to go into here, but Magneto was one of the six Core villains
involved in the plan. This gave Magneto a number of cameo appearances in
such books as Captain America and the Avengers West Coast that developed
into other storylines concerning the mutant master of magnetism.
Another of the Core villains was the Red Skull, who Magneto gained an
interest in since the Skull was once a Nazi and Magneto had been tortured
by Nazis in World War 2. The Acts of Vengeance scenario in Captain America
pretty much ends when Magneto just spends an issue trouncing the Skull in
order to make him pay for the deeds he did under the Nazi name. The Skull
loses badly and Magneto locks him in a cellar somewhere.
From there, Magneto observed some serious changes occurring in his daughter
the Scarlet Witch. (The whole Dark Scarlet Witch thing is also too
complicated to go into at this time.) Magneto set out with a plan to
reunite his family (himself, Wanda, and Quicksilver). He succeeds very
easily. (This whole storyline was very good when done by Byrne IMHO, but
not ended very well when someone else took over.) Anyway, Magneto is
forced to back off when he realizes that Immortus is messing around with
Wanda's powers and that there is nothing that he (Magneto) could do about
it at that point. The Scarlet Witch's problems were resolved in a final
battle with Immortus.
Finally, Magneto resurfaced in the issue of the X-Men before X-tinction
where he took a revived Rogue prisoner after killing a revived "Ms. Marvel."
(You see, the two personas were physically separated after Rogue went
through the Seige Perilous.) Apparently, another of Magneto's schemes
will be made plain to us sometime in the near future.
Magneto's got to be Marvel's best villain (right after Doctor Doom) nowadays.
Jeremy Billones
>From there, Magneto observed some serious changes occurring in his daughter
>the Scarlet Witch. (The whole Dark Scarlet Witch thing is also too
>complicated to go into at this time.) Magneto set out with a plan to
>reunite his family (himself, Wanda, and Quicksilver). He succeeds very
>easily. (This whole storyline was very good when done by Byrne IMHO, but
>not ended very well when someone else took over.) Anyway, Magneto is
>forced to back off when he realizes that Immortus is messing around with
>Wanda's powers and that there is nothing that he (Magneto) could do about
>it at that point. The Scarlet Witch's problems were resolved in a final
>battle with Immortus.
[ANTI-Byrne mode on]
"Dark Wanda" was a poor excuse for a story, used for the sole and express
purpose of eliminating a pair of kids Byrne didn't want to deal with.
[ANTI-Byrne mode off]
When Roy Thomas took over AWC, his first priority was to get Wanda out of the
mess Byrne put her in as fast as possible. I wonder if Byrne had even intended
Immortus to show up. I didn't read the Byrne run after the Black Goop issue,
so I couldn't say.
Magneto is indeed a "cool" villain. I hope some real writers get to tell some
good stories in the near future.
Jeremy Billones jbil...@jarthur.claremont.edu
"You know what this means."
"Yeah. Another late issue of ALL-STARFISH SQUADRON."
Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt
> Weird. When I first read the stories with S'ym in, I interpreted his
> accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
> Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
At least from the point of view of the specific USA people who made the
animated X-MEN pilot, they do. :-)
--
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
Chris Jarocha-Ernst
UUCP: {ames, att, harvard, moss, seismo}!rutgers!elbereth.rutgers.edu!cje
ARPA: JAROCH...@CANCER.RUTGERS.EDU
CCIS, Rutgers University, Piscataway, NJ 08855-0879
Jay P Lessler
>where he took a revived Rogue prisoner after killing a revived "Ms. Marvel."
>(You see, the two personas were physically separated after Rogue went
>through the Seige Perilous.) Apparently, another of Magneto's schemes
>will be made plain to us sometime in the near future.
>
bonds on her at the end of the issue. He probably wanted to make sure the
Carol Danvers persona wasn't in control of Rogue. (Remember, Carol was under
the mental control of the shadow king.) Once he noticed Rogue's reaction
to Carol being gone, he had nothing to worry about.
>Magneto's got to be Marvel's best villain (right after Doctor Doom) nowadays.
>
...And Magneto even gets more exposure than Doc Doom.
>--
>mic...@brahms.udel.edu * "There was a point to this story, but it has
>-------------------------- * temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
>mic...@sun.udel.edu * -DISCLAIMER by Douglas Adams
>Captain's Log: Stardate unknown. A mysterious force has seized the computer.
--Jay Lessler
--jp...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
fal2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
} When Roy Thomas took over AWC, his first priority was to get Wanda out of the
} mess Byrne put her in as fast as possible. I wonder if Byrne had even intended
} Immortus to show up. I didn't read the Byrne run after the Black Goop issue,
} so I couldn't say.
Byrne had been throwing in little interludes of Immortus hopping around the
timestream(s), saying over and over (as Byrne's characters are want to do,
just in case somebody missed the last issue or the one before that or the
one before that or...) that his "big plans" (as Byrne's villains are wont
to have, and are so pround of them that they feel the need to discuss them
aloud with themselves...Keith Giffen knows what I'm talking about) all
centered around Wanda for several issues before the Dark Wanda thing really
kicked in, so it seemed that he had the Immortus angle in mind all along.
I kind of wish I could have seen how Byrne wanted to conclude it---Roy
Thomas couldn't write his way out of a Mylar bag.
} Jeremy Billones jbil...@jarthur.claremont.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain Frank A. Lauro "There are giants out there in the canyons
Commanding Officer And a good captain can't fall asleep..."
U.S.S. ALEXA NCC 1764-D ---Billy Joel, "The Downeaster Alexa"
DEVEAUX JEFF
In a previous article, Joe Charles said,
>The NM used to be something special, starting around the Demon-Bear
>storyline and ending with Louise Simonsen's turn as writer. Over the course
>of many issues, Claremont had molded the characters into realistic
>individuals, each with their own ideas, wants, and fears. Simonsen, in
>her first issue, turned those characters into simplistic charicatures of
>who they once were.
developing characters, then a new writer takes over, eager to try his/her
own ideas, and BAM! we can't even recognize the characters anymore.
One of the worst cases of this I ever saw was in the Fantastic Four. Way
back in ish. 232 John Byrne took over. He started to remold the FF to his
own conceptions. He did it slowly, and he took several issues to do it.
By the time he was done with his run, he had created the definitive Fantastic
Four. Things hadn't been that good since Lee and Kirby. Then, Byrne left.
I don't know who took over (didn't care either), but he ruined it. Sue's hair
grew 10 inches over night, she lost all of the skill and ability with her
power she had developed etc. The stories were bad too. Fortunately Walt
Simenson's fixing all that now.
Anyway, things like that happen all too often when there is a new writer.
It happened with New Mutants, and it's happened to other titles too.
Wish there was a way to fix it!
Garrett Lau
>Weird. When I first read the stories with S'ym in, I interpreted his
>accent as being Australian - or at least an American facsimile thereof.
>Do Canadians speak like Aussies from the point of view of USA people?
To most Americans, the only detectable aspect of a Canadian accent is
the pronunciation of words containing "out". For example, Mike Myers
was on SNL for a whole season before I figured out that he was
Canadian, when I heard him say "about".
To me, Australians sound British, but I don't even know the
differences between the various British accents.
By the way, the reason why this reply is coming so late is that my
mail and news feed was down for most of last week. If anybody tried
to send me mail and had it bounce, please re-send.
--Garrett
--
Garrett Lau l...@efi.com uunet!efi!lau
Electronics for Imaging, Inc.
San Bruno, California
David Adrien Tanguay
>To most Americans, the only detectable aspect of a Canadian accent is
>the pronunciation of words containing "out". For example, Mike Myers
>was on SNL for a whole season before I figured out that he was
>Canadian, when I heard him say "about".
Anecdote: Last winter I was in Mexico with sundry family (we're all Canucks).
My cousin was talking to me on a dock, and a guy next to us said
"Oh, you must be Canadian. I can tell by your accent." The catch is that
I always thought that my cousin had an American accent. My cousin is from
near Buffalo, and the guy on the dock was from Minnesota, and I'm from
30 miles north of Minnesota (on Superior).
Canada has regional dialects like the U.S. Newfies sound very different
from the B.C. folk, and the people from Quebec are just plain
unintelligible.
--
David Tanguay Software Development Group, University of Waterloo
Wes Nicholson
I've made two trips to the US and both times people ask me if I'm
English. That's like asking a Canadian if they're American. It may be
funny yhe first time but it soon wears thin. Aussies don't sound at all
like the Brits.
Ah, to live in an ninsular society :-). Or to be able to type.
===========================================================================
Wes Nicholson: w...@csc.canberra.edu.au 61-6-252-2367
'Without Mjolnir, you're a real wimp!'
===========================================================================