IT JUST DOESN'T WORK
WaR3zFLoW
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IT JUST DOESN'T WORK
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Highlights of The Incredible January 2001 aK00Kla Bootfuck...Now on Google!
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(][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]|[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][)
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WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT, ALFIE?
akula, a self-appointed moderator, control freak, liar and narc, attempted
to manipulate people into posting and speaking the way he wanted by
unionizing a handful of mentally disturbed posters, threatening naive
newbies with a posting 'halt', telling them that all posts would stop and
they stood no chance of ever finding the files they needed unless they
obeyed his every command. 'Violators' were told of an imaginary 'agreement'
which existed between the posters and the downloaders, and were encouraged
by akula to 'hold up their end' of it. If this trick didn't work, they were
snitched on to ISPs and LEAs until they were silenced or removed.
On January 24, 2001, IPL member Respectable openly criticized akula's
outrageous behaviour. This provided the window of opportunity for many who
had kept silent for months. Regulars and unknowns alike appeared to take
jabs at '+aK00Kla', The Park Ranger No One Elected, and to tell him: 'IT
JUST DOESN'T WORK!'
But akula never did listen and, some 10 weeks after this thread ended, both
of the newsgroups he had concentrated on were forcibly taken away from him
by a group calling itself 'Usenet Freedom Fighters', an organization
dedicated to free speech and liberty on Usenet. Now, almost one year later,
those groups remain a wasteland of smothering decay and rubble while
warez happily flow free in those newsgroups not infected by the presence of
akula, and those like him.
___________________________________________________________________________
-/-
From: Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: It just doesn't work
Date: 24 Jan 2001 02:31:18 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <3a6e924a$0$73970$45be...@newscene.com>
Gentlemen & Ladies,
A posting halt is simply never going to work. It never has worked,
and it never can work. Group punishment is a rather questionable way of
going about sanctions. But more importantly, it simply doesn't work
when peers have no ability to force other peers into behavior that results
in the punishment being withdrawn or not applied. No one here can control
anyone else's behavior.
Reality check, anyone?
If you can't live in Usenet with a little disorder, even with a fair amount
of disorder, you simply can't live in Usenet, I'm afraid. Better simply to
give it up and go away. Because you're simply going to leave a snail trail
of abandoned groups.
How would you ever know what percentage of compliance you're getting anyway,
when you have probably thousands of people silently downloading and never
making their presence known in the slightest? So when do you turn off the
halt? After three weeks of silence? What's the point?
Please tell me one sanction that can be applied to FAQ violators here. One
that the violator gives a rats behind about.
I'll read replies, but I've probably said my piece.
--
Respectable
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:25:24 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3aa2f265...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On 24 Jan 2001 02:31:18 -0600, Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
wrote:
>A posting halt is simply never going to work. It never has worked,
>and it never can work.
This nonsense keeps getting repeated like a mantra.
From day 0 both groups have made it clear that the
posters call the shots.
Not the requestors.
abcdi0's charter makes it easy to get newsadmin assistance
in directing errant posters, and the limited access to
0-day warez works well with a posting HALT in abwi0
to quell any notion that the requestors run the group.
You cannot state that it doesn't work unless the group
has been clearly abandoned, and neither has.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: 24 Jan 2001 21:05:30 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <3a6f9145$0$49580$45be...@newscene.com>
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:25:24 GMT, in article
<3f3aa2f265...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>This nonsense keeps getting repeated like a mantra.
>
>From day 0 both groups have made it clear that the
>posters call the shots.
>
>Not the requestors.
>
>abcdi0's charter makes it easy to get newsadmin assistance
>in directing errant posters, and the limited access to
>0-day warez works well with a posting HALT in abwi0
>to quell any notion that the requestors run the group.
Akula, I don't want to join the club that suggests that perhaps you're a bit
too fixated on control, but the three short 'graphs above certainly would tend
to support such a claim. :-(
Of course requestors don't 'run the group'. But neither do posters, if
'running the group' means demanding that almost everyone in an unmoderated,
open-to-the-general-public forum like Usenet toe anyone's line.
As anyone can easily detect from my headers, I belong to the IPL. Now there is
nothing stopping anyone with half a brain from coming in there and trying to
disrupt things, and from time to time the morons do indeed appear. But they
don't stay. And ya know why? Because of 'control'.
The only effect posting halts have is to invite the morons to keep toying with
you. So you cannot (really, I should say 'should not') allow yourself to be
manipulated like that.
>You cannot state that it doesn't work unless the group
>has been clearly abandoned, and neither has.
I can state that is has not worked in the past, and that it is unlikely to work
in the future. The end result will be that, if the kooks decide to keep
messing around with you, there will be no other option than to abandon the
group -- or stop the posting completely by the regular posters, which would
amount to the same thing. I just can't understand why you don't understand
this. You have a real blind spot here, I think.
--
Respectable
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:55:12 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3b07ef43....@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On 24 Jan 2001 21:05:30 -0600, Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
wrote:
[snip all]
You and I simply are never going to agree on this. Think what
you will of me, I really could not care less at this point. My
concern is keeping the posters happy and willing to share with
you in the face of the threats from KBucky & Co.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:37:46 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <a9mu6t4c92vud479h...@news.alt.net>
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:25:24 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>This nonsense keeps getting repeated like a mantra.
It's not nonsense.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:41:17 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3ab963c3....@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:37:46 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>It's not nonsense.
I will make the attempt to do something positive with your reply.
Let's start with the foundation of the argument for clarity.
I'll make a statement supporting my position.
I contend that the group dynamics of alt.binaries.cd.image.* do
not apply to the current state of the 0-day newsgroups.
Your turn.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:55:37 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <0fqv6t0fa8vuvc6cd...@news.alt.net>
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:41:17 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>I contend that the group dynamics of alt.binaries.cd.image.* do
>not apply to the current state of the 0-day newsgroups.
I contend that they do. You are not blind, and you can see the effects
of one group bleeding over into the other(s). Protesting otherwise is
disingenuous.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:55:17 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3b06ed5e....@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:55:37 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>I contend that they do. You are not blind, and you can see the effects
>of one group bleeding over into the other(s). Protesting otherwise is
>disingenuous.
I delayed reading your reply to make sure that I was in a calm
frame of mind.
I do not know what to make of your reply.
I'll make yet another attempt to communicate by writing something.
_What_ exactly is it that "doesn't work"?
_What_ do you propose as a solution?
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:58:18 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <mk347tgb762bsvfsf...@news.alt.net>
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:55:17 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>_What_ exactly is it that "doesn't work"?
HALTs and other such "sticks".
>_What_ do you propose as a solution?
If someone isn't fitting in, well they have access to the FAQ.
Beyond that, *plonk*. Nobody is being served by pounding at people.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:10:44 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a72fb00...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
So you contend that posters HAVE to post?
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:57:21 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <5vm97tg92eqbr4pqi...@news.alt.net>
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:10:44 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>So you contend that posters HAVE to post?
Unless and until you can argue something without putting words in my
mouth or other such ridiculous assertions like the bullshit above, then
I'm going to let this thread die as well.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:08:53 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a7e9f6a...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:57:21 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>Unless and until you can argue something without putting words in my
>mouth or other such ridiculous assertions like the bullshit above, then
>I'm going to let this thread die as well.
You seem to simply walk away when you start losing an argument.
It distresses me that you and I butt heads so often. Obviously we
inhabit parallel universes which intersect only through Usenet.
I'm not your enemy, and it is not my intention to annoy you.
I have to exert a great deal of self control to not write my
gut-instinct reply to some of your messages.
It the POSTER's terms, and if you don't like them, they don't
care.
The posters will not post if they get pissed off and always
reserve the right to stop posting whenever they feel like it.
They wield far more power as a team to cut off offending
behavior, and the first HALT in abwi0 was brief and very
effective. Future ones will most likely be the same, but
we will not give any warning at all next time. Obviously just
mentioning it as a possibility pisses you off.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:50:23 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <49eb7tc1tuoutdk0a...@news.alt.net>
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:08:53 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>Sorry, but if I have to choose sides, I choose the posters.
And this is your real problem. You boil it all down to an "us-vs-them".
Every time. It makes it easier to be intellectually lazy instead of
debating the very real issue, which you artfully sidestep at every
opportunity. Read your own responses in this thread. I've brought up
valid points, and Respectable brought up valid points, and you've just
flat-out ignored them in favor of soundbytes. And you have the NERVE,
the GALL, to call me on doing the same? Live by the sword, die by the
sword. If you don't like it being done to you, don't do it to others.
And where has this approach gotten you? Think, akula. You are *not*
that dumb, regardless of how your responses in this thread might lead
one to believe otherwise. It's your tactics, period. Anyone who shares
those tactics are just as bad. I would *much* rather that folks with
that kind of attitude just fucked off and posted nothing ever again.
You think Usenet will collapse without them or you? Don't flatter
yourself.
Don't misunderstand, I think sharing with others is a fine thing, but
for the right reasons. If you're just using it in a carrot/stick
fashion, I think you and anyone else who agrees with you on this needs
to just close Agent and walk away from Usenet, because you're here for
the wrong reasons.
>You can perhaps get a more pleasant exchange from me on future
>issues if you state the problem clearly and factually, and then
>propose a solution. Complaints without a solution strike me
>as "tree-hugger" tactics, and never will get a good reply from me.
I did. It's not my problem if you're too myopic to understand it.
Now I'm going to take your advice and refrain from responding with my
gut reply to this, which would be _exceedingly_ impolite.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:06:15 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a82e347...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:50:23 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:08:53 GMT,
>2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>
>>Sorry, but if I have to choose sides, I choose the posters.
>
>And this is your real problem. You boil it all down to an "us-vs-them".
>Every time. It makes it easier to be intellectually lazy instead of
>debating the very real issue, which you artfully sidestep at every
Excuse me? You're the one snipping sentences out of context.
>opportunity. Read your own responses in this thread. I've brought up
Read yours too then. I've asked you simple, point blank questions
attempting to build a debatable position. You snip away everything
and claim I am acting like a KOOK.
>valid points, and Respectable brought up valid points, and you've just
I reject the subject line to start with.
>flat-out ignored them in favor of soundbytes. And you have the NERVE,
Excuse me? Once again, who is snipping out one sentence and pouncing
on it?
>And where has this approach gotten you? You think the sharing itself is
It does not need to get me anywhere.
I've deliberately sat down and tried to engage you in useful dialog,
but you have to make a firm case for your contention.
Pissed off posters do not post warez.
My one and only goal here is to keep them from getting pissed off.
>>You can perhaps get a more pleasant exchange from me on future
>>issues if you state the problem clearly and factually, and then
>>propose a solution. Complaints without a solution strike me
>>as "tree-hugger" tactics, and never will get a good reply from me.
>
>I did. It's not my problem if you're too myopic to understand it.
>
Excuse me? All you've stated is something that I have seen work
"doesn't work".
>Now I'm going to take your advice and refrain from responding with my
>gut reply to this, which would be _exceedingly_ impolite.
Well, at least that's a start.
The HALT has been part of the abwi0-FAQ from the very first draft,
yet seven months later it is now an issue.
To prove you wrong on every point you claim above, here's your
opportunity to change my and the poster's minds on the HALT
issue.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:10:19 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <ujqd7t8b64aki4jcs...@news.alt.net>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:06:15 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>I find this exceedingly frustrating. The HALT has been part of the
>abwi0-FAQ from the very first draft, yet seven months later it is now
>an issue.
GGGRRRRRRR
IT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, STUPID!
Do you honest-to-god think that just because there was no objection to
something to begin with that it should never be questioned or rescinded
if it turns out to be a disaster?
You are playing right into the k00ks hands, and taking everyone else
down with you (recent TOS's ring a bell?). Jesus fucking Christ, wake
the fuck up and smell the roses. How many people have to point this out
to you before it gets through your goddamned skull? You _say_ you want a
discourse. You had a WHOLE FUCKING THREAD of discourse leading up to
this. What did it accomplish? Well, it must have served to trigger your
senility, because now you can't remember any of the points made in the
preceding thread, and want us to start all over again so you can
sidestep them AGAIN.
>To prove you wrong on every point you claim above, here's your
>opportunity to change my and the poster's minds on the HALT
>issue.
Did you not read the thread preceding this? I MADE my case, and
Respectable MADE his case, and you just blithely ignored them. What on
earth makes you think I want to type it all over again?
I'll use small words, because your attention span seems to be even
smaller.
1) You're hurting the wrong people
2) You're giving the k00ks a field day
a) Netcopping contests
b) Credibility
I don't give a rat's ass if your motives are the purest on Usenet, your
methods and the results are killing everyone. abwi0 and abcdi0 HALTs are
not worth it if they bring the heat down on Usenet FOR ANY REASON, and
if they hurt the wrong folks (i.e. the well-behaved lurkers).
I am running out of patience with you and your inability/unwillingness
to listen to anyone. Don't protest otherwise, because the proof is in
the pudding. You shouldn't _NEED_ me, or Respectable, or $OTHER_USER to
point out what a disaster this is turning into. It's painfully obvious,
yet you continue to ignore this obviousness and continue with the same
failed tactics.
I think the HALTs were a poor idea, and it's escalated now to where
there's the real possibility of LE showing up in folks' RL, and it's
realistically jeapordized the viability of Usenet sharing en masse. Just
try and guess how happy these posters are going to be then. How much are
they going to share then?
You can rant and rail all day long about the k00ks being responsible for
all this, but that's just a glib and face-saving way of avoiding the
COLD, HARD FACTS. Life isn't fuckin' fair sometimes, and you just have
to live with it and make lemonade. Analyze trends. Adjust accordingly.
God damn, man, this isn't rocket science, it's called opening your eyes.
Several of us tried this tactic years ago. It didn't work then, and it
doesn't work now. If something doesn't work, guess what? You stop doing
it, even if there's no suitable replacement yet.
You want to hear my replacement? It's so simple it hurts. CA's
three-step plan to deescalation:
1) Post a FAQ periodically. Once per day would be fine. No need to
followup fuckups with FAQ postings. No need to followup fuckups with
anything at all. If they're smart, they'll figure out they're fucking up
and ask for help. If they're not, criticizing them isn't going to do any
good anyway.
2) Keep criticism to yourself. If someone asks for help, offer it
nicely. Avoid flamewars and extended arguments with them. Let those who
want to lurk and pull do so. Let those who want to cause problems be
ignored. When and if push comes to shove, guess who's going to have
public sentiment and credibility on their side?
3) Ignore k00ks. I mean ignore as in *ignore*. Don't reply, don't
respond. If the previous two points are adhered to, there likely won't
be as much to ignore.
In summary, you're killing us. The sharing in abwi0/abcdi0 does not
offset the extra heat that's being generated by HALTs and other such
tactics. Share files, keep lips closed. Pretty simple, don't you think?
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:43:02 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a78126b...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:10:19 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>IT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, STUPID!
>
Of course. I concede the debate point that I am an idiot.
>Do you honest-to-god think that just because there was no objection to
>something to begin with that it should never be questioned or rescinded
>if it turns out to be a disaster?
>
What exactly is the disaster here? Remember, I'm stupid, so you need
to be explicit.
>You are playing right into the k00ks hands, and taking everyone else
>down with you (recent TOS's ring a bell?). Jesus fucking Christ, wake
You seem to be playing into the KOOK contention that I must go for the
good of Usenet.
>the fuck up and smell the roses. How many people have to point this out
>to you before it gets through your goddamned skull? You _say_ you want a
I'm stupid, as you stated. I don't understand contentions that aren't
backed up by facts.
>Did you not read the thread preceding this? I MADE my case, and
Remember, I'm stupid. I only understand logical constructions of
arguments.
>I'll use small words, because your attention span seems to be even
>smaller.
>
Well, us stupid people appreciate that.
>1) You're hurting the wrong people
>
Who exactly am I hurting?
How does waiting a few days for warez hurt anyone?
>2) You're giving the k00ks a field day
So that's why this whole issue hasn't gone private yet?
>I don't give a rat's ass if your motives are the purest on Usenet, your
>methods and the results are killing everyone. abwi0 and abcdi0 HALTs are
>not worth it if they bring the heat down on Usenet FOR ANY REASON, and
>if they hurt the wrong folks (i.e. the well-behaved lurkers).
>
Once again, how does waiting a few days for warez hurt anyone?
HALTs are an alternative to complete abandonment.
>I am running out of patience with you and your inability/unwillingness
>to listen to anyone. Don't protest otherwise, because the proof is in
I am trying to communicate here. I apologize for my inherent stupidity,
but we obese people can be like that at times.
>the pudding. You shouldn't _NEED_ me, or Respectable, or $OTHER_USER to
>point out what a disaster this is turning into. It's painfully obvious,
And you aren't a participant in "what this is turning in to"? Each
and every exchange we trade in public is yet more fodder for the KOOKs.
>yet you continue to ignore this obviousness and continue with the same
>failed tactics.
Well, stupid is as stupid does.
>I think abwi0 was/is a useful idea. I think the HALTs were a poor idea,
>and it's escalated now to where there's the real possibility of LE
>showing up in folks' RL, and it's realistically jeapordized the
>viability of Usenet sharing en masse. Just try and guess how happy these
>posters are going to be then. How much are they going to share then?
>
My I suggest that we conduct any future exchange on this issue in
altnet.anonymous.messages, or are you just going to give up on me?
>Post a FAQ periodically. Once per day would be fine. No need to
>followup fuckups with FAQ postings. No need to followup fuckups with
>anything at all. If they're smart, they'll figure out they're fucking up
>and ask for help. If they're not, criticizing them isn't going to do any
>good anyway.
>
I do not criticize anyone in abwi0. I merely point them at the FAQ.
I have also observed that many people only read followups to their
own posts, and will not read a FAQ until they are asked to do so.
>In summary, you're killing us. The sharing in abwi0/abcdi0 does not
>offset the extra heat that's being generated by HALTs and other such
>tactics. Share files, keep lips closed. Pretty simple, don't you think?
I think that you and I debating this is the equivalent of two elephants
in a tussle. Everyone else has run for cover.
I limit my so called "netkopping" to Usenet Abuse issues.
This friction distresses me, and nothing good will come of it. I'll
follow your lead on how you wish to proceed.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Desperado <the_de...@hushmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: 30 Jan 2001 21:53:15 -0000
Message-ID: <72YMNWTZ3692...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:43:02 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>May I suggest that we conduct any future exchange on this issue in
>altnet.anonymous.messages, or are you just going to give up on me?
>
>I think that you and I debating this is the equivalent of two elephants
>in a tussle. Everyone else has run for cover.
Elephants in a tussle. <BG> Don't fall for it, ClassAct, it's a trick!
He wants to go private so we can't read the truth of what you say and
learn from you. And then afterwards he will _twist_ what you say the
same way he does with everyone else and try to make us believe you said
something you didn't. Write it out loud like you have. Continue to let
us learn more from you. You are a breath of fresh air. No one has run
for cover we are reading every word. He is trying to manipulate you.
And remember that your reputation and power ClassAct, is why there are
elephants in a tussle! He knows your words mean something. If you were
an average lurker there would be no elephants in a tussle, akula would
give you the regular...........
>That snot-licking pus-sucking ass-grabber has given me 5 "last
>warnings" in as many months. Just like his scam, he never makes
>good on his promises. I however do make good on mine, and he'll
>lose a few more accounts come Monday afternoon, when the abuse@
>people digest the latest round of complaints.
>
>Do you read replies or just crosspost 6 ways to sunday?
>Or do you have your head so firmly stuck between your
>buttocks that you have to type by braille?
>Is it true you eat urinal cakes?
>
>Not a fucking hair on your nadless crotch, you sperm-gurgling
>crotch-sniffing flea-infested shit-stain of a worm.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See that?
Remember what he does to everyone else. And let us continue to hear
your words and comment on them. We have a right to read and learn
from you. Things like this should not be discussed in the dark. Akula
keeps saying that the FAQ was discussed openly and now when people
start discussing it and the discussion is not the way he likes it he
wants to go private? FUCK HIM. By asking you to do that he is trying to
silence you from the eyes of the world. Do not fall pray to his bag of
many tricks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: 30 Jan 2001 16:51:09 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <3a774506$0$21329$45be...@newscene.com>
If posters get pissed off about their inability to control behavior in an
unmoderated Usenet group, then posters are *doomed* to get pissed off. If
posters are that delicate, then they're too delicate for Usenet. And you know
what? Posters with thicker hides will show up to take up the slack if the
delicate flowers wilt. Nature abhors a vacuum.
It's just simply much better to ignore the chaff when you live in Usenet.
Otherwise, the chaff will make Usenet an unlivable place for you. Sad, but
true. Is this hard to understand? It's something about human nature that
a lot of people pick up in grade school.
I simply can't add anything to the discussion beyond this, I fear.
--
Respectable
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:21:26 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a7f4c16...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On 30 Jan 2001 16:51:09 -0600, Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
wrote:
This is just a quick reply to ensure you don't think that
I am either ignoring you or blowing you off. Please give
me some time to digest things.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: No User <no....@anon.xg.nu>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:11:26 -0600
Message-ID: <61feb0bf265c828d...@anon.xg.nu>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:21:26 GMT, ((aK00Kla)) wrote:
>This is just a quick reply to ensure you don't think that
>I am either ignoring you or blowing you off. Please give
>me some time to digest things.
Time to digest things? Christ, man, you weigh 400 pounds, that
could take forever!!
Hey +aK00Kla, have you fixed up that body odor problem yet or
do you still smell like rat infested pussy?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:50:17 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a897ab0.2365257269@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On 30 Jan 2001 16:51:09 -0600, Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
wrote:
>It's just simply much better to ignore the chaff when you live in Usenet.
>Otherwise, the chaff will make Usenet an unlivable place for you. Sad, but
>true. Is this hard to understand? It's something about human nature that
>a lot of people pick up in grade school.
>
>I simply can't add anything to the discussion beyond this, I fear.
I would like to think that mature individuals can hold different
viewpoints and still have respect for each other. I certainly
bear you no ill will, and I don't think less of you over this
issue. Same goes for ClassAct.
This is not something that I am going to fight over any more here.
I am not going to make any changes to FAQs. Any change in wording will be
subject to a discussion period, as has always been the case.
The more others do in a newsgroup, the less I do. I see to need
to duplicate efforts.
Keeping a newsgroup alive involves many tasks, and I'd appreciate
everyone taking a more active role in educating new arrivals.
Please address any other issues in another thread.
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: No User <no....@anon.xg.nu>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:01:42 -0600
Message-ID: <b3d9bb458b8c50b1...@anon.xg.nu>
+aK00Kla wrote:
>I would like to think that mature individuals can hold different
>viewpoints and still have respect for each other.
WHOA! You the same guy who wrote THIS?:
>Do you read replies or just crosspost 6 ways to sunday?
>Or do you have your head so firmly stuck between your
>buttocks that you have to type by braille?
>Is it true you eat urinal cakes?
>That snot-licking pus-sucking ass-grabber has given me 5 "last
>warnings" in as many months.
>Not a fucking hair on your nadless crotch, you sperm-gurgling
>crotch-sniffing flea-infested shit-stain of a worm.
>I certainly bear you no ill will, and I don't think less of you
>over this issue. Same goes for ClassAct.
Whoosh! What a relief! <NOT!>
>Any change in wording will be subject to a discussion period, as
>has always been the case.
As long as the discussion is on _your_ terms. Which means you
agree with what is being said. Otherwise, you and your group of
monkey henchmen flame out. Or....if they are IPLers.....you speak
nice, lure them into alt.anonymous.messages and hide like a baby.
>Keeping a newsgroup alive involves many tasks, and I'd appreciate
>everyone taking a more active role in educating new arrivals.
Like Hitler educated the Jews.
>Please address any other issues in another thread.
NO. WHY? Because people are FLAMING YOUR ASS in this one? You gonna
try and tell us what _THREAD_ we can talk in now too, Dungboy??
FOAD
--
+ak00kla
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:47:48 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a84f73b...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On 24 Jan 2001 21:05:30 -0600, Respectable <Respe...@nym.alias.DELETE-ME.net>
wrote:
Ok, I am going to show that CA was wrong, and beat this issue to death
point by point.
The reasons for the abandonment of abcdi are many. I do not know all of
them. Two big reasons stood out in my proposing both abwi0 and abcdi0:
(1) Pissed off posters will not share the wealth, (2) The people causing
the posters to get pissed off could find alternative sources for the iSOs.
There are limited alternative sources for 0-day warez and iSOs, so that issue
was overcome from the start. The big concern is to keep the posters from
getting pissed off, and providing them a means of venting their anger short
of abandoning the group.
My solution is the posting HALT. Posting HALTs occur when the posters get
pissed off and are not going to post anyway.
Pissed off posters will not share the wealth
So your statement that HALTs don't work doesn't give me any alternative at
all. Would you prefer that the posters simply leave? I'd rather they exert
their very real control and let peer pressure among the leeches and their
own self-interest cause the offending behavior to cease.
There have been 2 HALTs. The one in abwi0 was 5 days and 100% effective.
The one in abcdi0 was effective in that it stopped the offending behavior.
The KOOK factor is not addressed by HALTs, and cannot be considered in any
newsgroup policy.
>Akula, I don't want to join the club that suggests that perhaps you're a bit
>too fixated on control, but the three short 'graphs above certainly would tend
>to support such a claim. :-(
>
How so? Are you contending that posters must yield to the crowd and
continue posting when they are pissed off?
Are you contending that we should simply ignore people who post
unwanted material to newsgroups?
You've given me nothing to support those statements.
I ask people to comply with the poster's wishes codified in the FAQs.
IF the people causing a disruption are afoul of their terms of service
or acceptable use policies, I may use them to convince them to knock
it off. If you find that evil, so be it.
>Of course requestors don't 'run the group'. But neither do posters, if
>'running the group' means demanding that almost everyone in an unmoderated,
>open-to-the-general-public forum like Usenet toe anyone's line. If the result
I wholeheartedly disagree. If a poster tells me that she will post only
under the listed conditions, then I expect the poster to post only under
the listed conditions.
Why do you think posters cannot dictate the terms under which they will post?
You seem to be implying that I and the posters are too stupid to recognize
the rabble rousers amid the ignorant. Neither HALT was prolonged due to
text posts, only offending binary material.
>As anyone can easily detect from my headers, I belong to the IPL. Now there is
>nothing stopping anyone with half a brain from coming in there and trying to
>disrupt things, and from time to time the morons do indeed appear. But they
>don't stay. And ya know why? Because of 'control'.
Ok, so why are you here at all? The posting HALT has been a provision since
day zero in abwi0 and abcdi0.
The IPL has an effective means of keeping newbies under control. It's
called a passphrase, as you are well aware. abcdi0/abwi0 don't have that
stick, so another is needed.
>The only effect posting halts have is to invite the morons to keep toying with
>you. So you cannot (really, I should say 'should not') allow yourself to be
>manipulated like that.
Thanks for the psychobabble. Forgive me for ignoring it. abwi0 is not abwie
and we don't have an IPL inspector here.
>>You cannot state that it doesn't work unless the group
>>has been clearly abandoned, and neither has.
>
>I can state that is has not worked in the past, and that it is unlikely to work
>in the future. The end result will be that, if the kooks decide to keep
>messing around with you, there will be no other option than to abandon the
>group -- or stop the posting completely by the regular posters, which would
>amount to the same thing. I just can't understand why you don't understand
>this. You have a real blind spot here, I think.
No, I don't accept "because I say so" as a valid argument. That's
all you've given me, "because you say so" the posters cannot stop
posting when they get pissed off.
HALTs are an alternative to complete abandonment. Can you brush
away your own "blind spot" and attempt to look at it from that
perspective?
Debates are not arguments. State a point and back it up with
a logical construction of thoughts.
I have put a lot of effort into creating an environment where
people want to share 0-day warez. I would love for it to be
a no-maintenance affair, but it isn't. Sometimes someone
around here has to be an asshole, and since I have nothing
to lose by being one, I usually take on that burden myself.
May I remind you that this most recent flareup happened when
I was working dayshift and didn't post at all? Why didn't
you attempt to intervene between Cornfed and Schwartzenegger
to calm the tempers?
Had you done so, this little spat between you and me would
not have occurred at all. This is your park too, and if you
leave it to me to clean up the mess, then you are going to
have to put up with my way of cleaning up the mess.
Feel free to give me other means of preventing disputes like
the one between Cornfed and Schwartzenegger. "It just doesn't
work" is not a solution, ok?
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clas...@iplweb.org
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:03:15 -0600
Organization: IPL
Message-ID: <qv1e7t4ro63ovrtrg...@news.alt.net>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:47:48 GMT,
2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula)) wrote:
>Pissed off posters will not share the wealth
Said posters need to grow thicker skin. Sorry, but I'm tired of seeing a
bunch of folks take their toys and go home every time someone knocks the
chip off their shoulder. I expect childish behavior from the k00ks. I
demand better from the good guys.
>My solution is the posting HALT. Posting HALTs occur when the posters get
>pissed off and are not going to post anyway.
I detect a trend here.
>The KOOK factor is not addressed by HALTs, and cannot be considered in any
>newsgroup policy.
Of course it can, when the newsgroup policy is the very reason for those
k00k interventions. This is just plain stupid.
DUH, that's what we're discussing. Hello, earth to akula! What planet
are you on? This whole damned thing is about two concepts - the k00ks,
and the lurkers. Your policy addresses neither.
>continue posting when they are pissed off?
The trend continues...
>Are you contending that we should simply ignore people who post
>unwanted material to newsgroups?
FUCKIN' A! Jesus, it only took you, what, close to half a year to
comprehend that? Longer if you count your previous experiences
(disastrous) in other groups. You not learn from your mistakes?
>You've given me nothing to support those statements.
Of course we have. You've just ignored them and continued on your merry
way, since you're so much smarter than everyone else. I had hope for you
at one time, akula. I figured you could pull through and wise up to how
you're being manipulated by the k00ks. I'm devastated to see that I was
wrong. You're not stupid, just willfully blind. You see what you want to
see, and you're leading everyone who will follow into disaster.
>I ask people to comply with the poster's wishes codified in the FAQs.
>IF the people causing a disruption are afoul of their terms of service
>or acceptable use policies, I may use them to convince them to knock
>it off. If you find that evil, so be it.
Yes, I do. That axe swings both ways, and you're a damned fool if you
continue to swing it, because you're going to kill everyone in sight. If
that's your goal, continue on, because most assuredly that is the
inevitable result.
>I wholeheartedly disagree. If a poster tells me that she will post only
>under the listed conditions
Then that poster is welcome to take their toys, go home, and make room
for an adult. If no adult is forthcoming, it's still an improvement over
having the children cause such a ruckus that Usenet gets squashed with
the resulting attention. <- Read it again.
>Why do you think posters cannot dictate the terms under which they will post?
Maturity? Unwillingness to be manipulated by k00ks and the lame? Which
category do you see yourself?
>You seem to be implying that I and the posters are too stupid to recognize
>the rabble rousers amid the ignorant.
Then that's even worse, because you _do_ know better.
>The IPL has an effective means of keeping newbies under control. It's
>called a passphrase, as you are well aware. abcdi0/abwi0 don't have that
>stick, so another is needed.
Oh, give me an everliving break. We have the same defense against
trolls, crossposters, and troublemakers as anyone else - nothing. Y'know
why we have a relatively low signal-to-noise ratio? Because we help
those who ask, and ignore the rest. It works.
>Thanks for the psychobabble. Forgive me for ignoring it.
Why not? You're ignoring every other salient point made. You're using
tactics that are bringing heat to Usenet, and damn the torpedos (no
matter whom they take out).
>No, I don't accept "because I say so" as a valid argument.
Really? It seems to be all you're giving us. "If I don't do
such-and-such, the posters will get pissed off". Izzat so? Maybe some of
these posters would care to jump in and speak for themselves. I have
trouble believing that they're truly that immature. I don't think they
are. If they are, then they're welcome to go up a couple of paragraphs
or so.
>HALTs are an alternative to complete abandonment. Can you brush
>away your own "blind spot" and attempt to look at it from that
>perspective?
It is NOT an alternative. Can *YOU* brush off your blind spot long
enough to see the damage you're causing?
>Debates are not arguments. State a point and back it up with
>a logical construction of thoughts.
Good advice.
>I have put a lot of effort into creating an environment where
>people want to share 0-day warez. I would love for it to be
>a no-maintenance affair, but it isn't. Sometimes someone
>around here has to be an asshole, and since I have nothing
>to lose by being one, I usually take on that burden myself.
No, here's where you're dead wrong. The whole point is that NOBODY "has"
to be an asshole. It just seems to be the only way you think you can get
your point across. I've got a news flash for you - it isn't working.
Nobody stokes the k00ks and creates more of them than you and your
tactics. How do you like the fit of _that_ shoe? You've even surpassed
me as the all-time hated hall monitor. I'm sure you're proud. Maybe
someday you'll come to understand as I have the utter futility of being
a jackass to all and sundry.
>May I remind you that this most recent flareup happened when
>I was working dayshift and didn't post at all? Why didn't
>you attempt to intervene between Cornfed and Schwartzenegger
>to calm the tempers?
Schwartzenegger is belligerent. He's also sloppy. If that's all it takes
for Cornfed to go off, then WTH is he doing on Usenet? Jesus, contact
Schwartzenegger and see if he wants to work with you. If not, then for
fuck's sake just KF him.
>Had you done so, this little spat between you and me would
>not have occurred at all. This is your park too, and if you
>leave it to me to clean up the mess, then you are going to
>have to put up with my way of cleaning up the mess.
See, nobody left it to you to clean the mess, and nobody elected you the
park ranger. More bluntly, I don't *WANT* you as park ranger, since
you're incapable, nay, unwilling to conduct yourself appropriately. The
collateral damage is too high.
If your assertation that my refusal to get involved in a childish spat
is the entire reason you're having to be an "asshole", you can take that
and shove it so far up your ass you lose the broom handle.
>Feel free to give me other means of preventing disputes like the one
>between Cornfed and Schwartzenegger. "It just doesn't work" is not a
>solution, ok?
So you're just going to keep killing us until there's nothing left.
Brilliant. Way to go. I'm so glad we elected you for this.
Oh, wait, we didn't.
--
ClassAct
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 2001.01.alt.binar...@sharks.plc.ltd ((akula))
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:03:08 GMT
Message-ID: <3f3a7a3975...@news.sharks.plc.ltd>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:03:15 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
This is just to let you know that I am digesting your words
and you have a message in altnet.anonymous.messages
--
+akula
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Ripper <TRi...@synopsis.ru.net>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.d
Subject: Re: It just doesn't work
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:12:52 -0500
Organization: Freedom Fighters
Message-ID: <lsde7tckf87j600ib...@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:03:15 -0600, Clas...@iplweb.org wrote:
>If your assertation that my refusal to get involved in a childish spat
>is the entire reason you're having to be an "asshole", you can take that
>and shove it so far up your ass you lose the broom handle.
>
>>Feel free to give me other means of preventing disputes like the one
>>between Cornfed and Schwartzenegger. "It just doesn't work" is not a
>>solution, ok?
>
>So you're just going to keep killing us until there's nothing left.
>Brilliant. Way to go. I'm so glad we elected you for this.
>
>Oh, wait, we didn't.
And this reasoning of akula and all the "good" he thinks he is doing
is the reason why there is a UFF. He will NEVER get what you and
others have suggested. The UFF has been initiated because of his
actions. He seems to think it's ok to report posters for posting
non 0 day images that is not specific to his liking, or FAQ. Or
getting people a TOS violation because they posted a text message
in "his" precious 0 day group. But when the UFF steps in to show him
WE can do it too, he completely ignores the obvious.
Like you and others have said: Ignore the noise. He can't, and never
will. His precious groups are destined to Usenet history, just as the
original image group with SR, BB and the rest frothing at the mouth
everytime someone wasn't abiding by their FAQ.
Like I said when this was started: Akula had and has the chance to
resolve this. He chose not to, so we remain to remind him.
Any openings in the IPL? I'm getting bored with this nonsense.
Best thing you can do with akula CA is ignore him even more than you
ignore me. He WILL go away some day.
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
___ ___ ___
/ /\ / /\ / /\
/ /:/ / /::\ / /::\
/ /:/ / /:/\:\ / /:/\:\
/__/:/ /\ / /::\ \:\ / /::\ \:\
\ \:\ /:/ /__/:/\:\ \:\ /__/:/\:\ \:\
\ \:\/:/ \__\/ \:\_\/ \__\/ \:\_\/
\ \::/ \ \:\ \ \:\
\__\/ \__\/ \__\/
-=- Usenet Freedom Fighters -=-
Liberty and Justice For ALL
Don't Be a Thumper...and DON'T LET THEM THUMP YOU!
-=- "Since 1998!" -=-
________________________________________________________________________________
Ogre_Mage
kook? You both know what the meaning of insane is? "Insane: Repeating
the same action repeatedly expecting different resaults" unfortialy
both of you two do this repeatedly... and i think that explains why
+akula is going on with this. Second: i agree that HALT's are not the
solution... make a different way of getting the files to the
people(like a ftp where you ban people or the irc's)you could have way
more control there.... (opps... i just made a monster ;p)