Sibelius
James Hammerton
with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
(3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
James
--
James Hammerton, Research Student, School of Computer Science,
University of Birmingham | Home Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/
Connectionist NLP WWW Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/CNLP/cnlp.html
Replace "seemysigfile" with "james" in my email address
Derek & Joyce Haslam
James Hammerton <seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
> (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
> James
I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
their own use. I would have thought that the Finns would have heard
about this, or at least investigated the possibility with ARM.
Derek Haslam
--
Derek and Joyce Haslam
Acorn Enthusiasts
dljh...@argonet.co.uk
Simon John
> > James
Isn't the C++ excuse the one CC used with CorelArtWorks - sorry Xara?....
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
Byte me.
Sveinung W. Tengelsen
> Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
> (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
Tschah. Rubbish. Defeatist ramblings. *Of course* there‘ll be a version
of Sibelius Virtual Manuscript Paper for RISC OS/Linux. Obviously! 8)
--
Regards,
Sveinung W. Tengelsen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
mailto:pixe...@sn.no | I have one illusion;
http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions.
Gareth Moore
"Sveinung W. Tengelsen" <pixe...@sn.spamtrap.no> wrote:
> In article <F07FwB.Jt1.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, James
> Hammerton <URL:mailto:seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> > with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> > program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> > be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> > desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
> > (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> > compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> > the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
>
> Tschah. Rubbish. Defeatist ramblings. *Of course* there‘ll be a version
> of Sibelius Virtual Manuscript Paper for RISC OS/Linux. Obviously! 8)
Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be producing
a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn producing the
C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run on Acorn
computers".
Gareth
--
Gareth Moore Station Manager, Cambridge University Radio
Downing College, CB2 1DQ edi...@acorn-gaming.org.uk gl...@cam.ac.uk
32-bit Acorn Gaming WWW Pages http://www.acorn-gaming.org.uk/
====== The longest running regularly updated Acorn WWW magazine ======
David Matthewman
Simon John <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <488ee7707...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Derek & Joyce Haslam <dljh...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
> > their own use. I would have thought that the Finns would have heard
> > about this, or at least investigated the possibility with ARM.
I do know that Sibelius knows about this compiler. I don't know what the
problems are with it (I'm assuming there are some because the Finn
brothers would certainly use it if possible).
> Isn't the C++ excuse the one CC used with CorelArtWorks - sorry Xara?....
Sort of - there were a number of reasons of which this was one. Bear in
mind that it's not just the compiler - it's the entire development
environment and provision of class libraries that's a bit lacking on the
Acorn.
The decision was made well before my time at CC/Xara, but as I understand
it, a crucial part of the debate went something like this:
"Wow! We've just written an object-oriented vector graphics program in
hand-coded ARM Assembler."
"Yay us! That's really clever and ground-breaking."
"Complete sod to write though, wasn't it?"
"Yes. Let's not do it again."
"Phew, I hoped you'd say that."
Of course, C++ compilers and development environments had come a long way
even during the development of ArtWorks. Hence the way that decisions made
when ArtWorks was started might have looked a little dubious when it was
finished, and might also be made differently today.
But that's all CC/Xara history, and not totally relevant to Sibelius.
--
David Matthewman
- She's eclectic; can I be eclectic too? -
Paddy Spencer
> James Hammerton <seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> > compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> > the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
> I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
> their own use. I would have thought that the Finns would have heard
> about this, or at least investigated the possibility with ARM.
ARM have had a decent C++ compiler for quite a long time now, though
it's not cheap. How does a GBP 2500 per head licence sound to you? And
I doubt that comes with a decent set of RISC OS class libraries.
--
Paddy Spencer Senior Software Engineer
Work (Rot13): cnq...@cnenyynk.pb.hx http://www.parallax.co.uk/~paddys/
Home (Rot13): cnq...@netbarg.pb.hx http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paddys/
Astute Graphics
<URL:mailto:da...@horwood.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <488eea3d...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Simon John <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Derek & Joyce Haslam <dljh...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
>
> > > I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
> > > their own use. I would have thought that the Finns would have heard
> > > about this, or at least investigated the possibility with ARM.
>
> problems are with it (I'm assuming there are some because the Finn
> brothers would certainly use it if possible).
I'm a bit stupid on the programming front (so forgive me), but is ARM's
compiler suitable for a RiscOS environment?
> > Isn't the C++ excuse the one CC used with CorelArtWorks - sorry Xara?....
>
> Sort of - there were a number of reasons of which this was one. Bear in
> mind that it's not just the compiler - it's the entire development
> environment and provision of class libraries that's a bit lacking on the
> Acorn.
>
> The decision was made well before my time at CC/Xara, but as I understand
> it, a crucial part of the debate went something like this:
>
> "Wow! We've just written an object-oriented vector graphics program in
> hand-coded ARM Assembler."
> "Yay us! That's really clever and ground-breaking."
> "Complete sod to write though, wasn't it?"
> "Yes. Let's not do it again."
> "Phew, I hoped you'd say that."
:-)
What about the fact that the product didn't make any profit for 4/5 years?
Let's face it - if the market was big enough to support the not-so-small
size of CC, then you would have seen v.2, 3 and four by now. Law of
economics, s'ppose.
On reflection, the lack of a C/C++ compliler was one of the factors in the
reason CC didn't make enough of AW. Without the compiler, it was harder to
create new apps, and it also eliminated the possibility of cross-platform
development.
> But that's all CC/Xara history, and not totally relevant to Sibelius.
Well, not really. The company size is the linking factor. Basically,
companies outgrow the RiscOS environment.
All the best,
Nick
PS - BTW David, I thought that you declared your leaving of this group and
that you would never return ;-)
Good to see you back...
Peter Young
seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton) wrote:
> Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
> compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
Being naturally suspicious I suspect (2) is the real reason and and (1) and
(3) are just added to make it look a reasonable thing to do.
I'm afraid the writing was on the wall when they announced the PC version
and offered substantial discounts for users to move over to that version.
I suspect that there was great pressure from prospective customers to
produce PC/Mac versions. Can you really blame the authors for wanting to
make money... Can't blame 'em but we don't need to like it :-((
--
Peter Young
Luciano Pavarotti : The greatest tenor in the world
Acorn Risc PC : Best personal computer in the world
Rhodri James
Derek & Joyce Haslam <dljh...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
> their own use.
I'll believe it when I see a system functioning on RISC OS. ARM have
theoretically been doing such a thing ever since Acorn C/C++ came out, but
have shown no signs of actually producing functioning code yet.
--
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses
If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them
... Sleep is for the weak and sickly
Chris Evans
> Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or Macs
> (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
Chris
--
CJE Micro's / NCS 'Acorn Centre of Technology'
Telephone: (01903) 523666 Fax: (01903) 523679
ch...@cje.co.uk http://www.cje.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN.
Simon John
Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
Ooh Chris - do you know something we don't - and where are they going to get
that from eh? ;o)
BTW what are you called - I popped into the shop the other day and the sign
is still CJE Micro's - but I thought it was ArcCjeNcs now?....
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
99.5% of all statistics are made up
Thomas Boroske
David Matthewman <da...@horwood.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <488eea3d...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Simon John <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <488ee7707...@argonet.co.uk>,
> > Derek & Joyce Haslam <dljh...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
>
> > > I understand that ARM are themselves developing a C++ compiler for
> > > their own use. I would have thought that the Finns would have heard
> > > about this, or at least investigated the possibility with ARM.
>
> I do know that Sibelius knows about this compiler. I don't know what the
> problems are with it (I'm assuming there are some because the Finn
> brothers would certainly use it if possible).
A possible problem could be that it's not available for RiscOS ?
IIRC.
Kind regards,
--
Thomas Boroske
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant05124...@cje.local>,
> Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
>
> Ooh Chris - do you know something we don't - and where are they going to get
> that from eh? ;o)
If Acorn have a true! C++ in house with the approriate tools, and
a buy out takes place, then I would hope a legal way of getting a C++
to Sibelius, could be found quickly. For the longer term getting C++
out to the masses, would be a priorty of the new company I'd have thought.
> BTW what are you called - I popped into the shop the other day and the sign
> is still CJE Micro's - but I thought it was ArcCjeNcs now?....
The Price List is named ArcCjeNcs not the company.
Chris Evans
André Timmermans
> In article <4890652e...@argonet.co.uk>, Simon John
> <URL:mailto:sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ant05124...@cje.local>,
> > Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
> >
> > Ooh Chris - do you know something we don't - and where are they going to get
> > that from eh? ;o)
>
> If Acorn have a true! C++ in house with the approriate tools, and
> a buy out takes place, then I would hope a legal way of getting a C++
> to Sibelius, could be found quickly. For the longer term getting C++
> out to the masses, would be a priorty of the new company I'd have thought.
I doubt they a true C++ in house, IIRC it was said some months ago on
one of these newsgroups that the programming teams inside Acorn were
all using the Nortcroft C v5.
André
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>If Acorn have a true! C++ in house with the approriate tools, and
>a buy out takes place, then I would hope a legal way of getting a C++
>to Sibelius,
Having a decent C++ is only half the story, one would also need a
decent set of class libraries to go with it.
greg
David Matthewman
Astute Graphics <ni...@astutegrfx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> What about the fact that the product didn't make any profit for 4/5
> years?
> Let's face it - if the market was big enough to support the not-so-small
> size of CC, then you would have seen v.2, 3 and four by now. Law of
> economics, s'ppose.
> On reflection, the lack of a C/C++ compliler was one of the factors in
> the reason CC didn't make enough of AW. Without the compiler, it was
> harder to create new apps, and it also eliminated the possibility of
> cross-platform development.
I thought I was very careful to make it clear that it was *one of the
factors* rather than the only one. Admittedly, you can sum the whole thing
up as 'Continuing to develop in the Acorn market would have lost CC a lot
of money' - but there are a number of reasons *why* it would have lost
money. Programmers wanting salaries is just one of them.
> > But that's all CC/Xara history, and not totally relevant to Sibelius.
> Well, not really. The company size is the linking factor. Basically,
> companies outgrow the RiscOS environment.
What I meant was that CC's decision about C++ was made several years ago,
when the state of C++ on both the Acorn and the PC was different to the
state today. The conclusion may be the same, but it's not taken on the
same basis.
Sibelius is less vulnerable than many to the phenomenon of outgrowing the
RISC OS environment, because a large proportion of its sales are to people
wholly new to the computer market, and it sells them a computer along with
the software. In a way, the market grows with the growth of Sibelius.
Your point is well taken, though. When should we start really worrying?
When the Acorn environment has shrunk to the extent that one-man
programming teams can outgrow it.
> All the best,
> Nick
> PS - BTW David, I thought that you declared your leaving of this group
> and that you would never return ;-)
I did say I'd look in occasionally for CC-related stuff. The person I
share a computer with is trying to keep up to date on the whole Acorn
Workstations debate, so we've re-subscribed temporarily.
> Good to see you back...
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not staying.
James Hammerton
> In article <F07FwB.Jt1.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, James Hammerton
[snip]
>
> I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
Which one? It's not that they don't exist, it's that the ones that are
available are according to Sibelius not up to the job. Unless there's
a new one coming out from somewhere?
James White
<URL:mailto:seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> Chris Evans (ch...@cje.co.uk) wrote:
> > In article <F07FwB.Jt1.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, James Hammerton
> > <URL:mailto:seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > I think you may find that Sibelius get a C++ soon!
>
> Which one? It's not that they don't exist, it's that the ones that are
> available are according to Sibelius not up to the job. Unless there's
> a new one coming out from somewhere?
>
> James
>
It doesn't really matter which one, or how good it is.
The problem is that SibWin is written in C++ but FOR Windows. In order
to port to ANY other platform the support code has to be redone. The
font manager on Windows is driven differently from the way the Acorn
font manager works. Is there an Icon Bar in Windows? where's the third
mouse button?
So the question is: Do SS WANT to port?
If you estimate how quickly Dave Walker will complete knocking up the
class libraries, add in how much time SS take, I reckon at least 6
months. That's if they want.
That's no problem in itself. I can sell Sib 7 now and for ever: it does
a fantastic job, and when the new prog comes out it will have been
largely debugged so nobody will mind moving to it. RiscOS GUI is still
the most productive.
JW
--
----------------
Los Belloteros Tel: +34 971 872322 Fax: +34 971 872309
----------------
Thomas Rankin
Gareth Moore <gl...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant02170...@pixeleye.online.no>
> "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" <pixe...@sn.spamtrap.no> wrote:
> > In article <F07FwB.Jt1.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, James
> > Hammerton <URL:mailto:seemys...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > Just in case this hasn't reached the newsgroup yet. I was speaking
> > > with Sibelius Software regarding the Acorn version of the new Sibelius
> > > program. They told me that the Acorn version will almost certainly not
> > > be produced now. They cited 3 reasons: (1) Acorn pulling out of the
> > > desktop market (2) many of Sibelius' users already moving to PCs or
> > > Macs (3) the poor state of the Acorn C++ compilers compared to PC/Mac
> > > compilers. I got the impression (1) was the (large) straw that broke
> > > the camel's back, though (3) did not help.
> >
> > Tschah. Rubbish. Defeatist ramblings. *Of course* there‘ll be a version
> > of Sibelius Virtual Manuscript Paper for RISC OS/Linux. Obviously! 8)
>
> Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program
> run on Acorn computers".
>
>
Err, Isn-t that ARMs job, and ISTR, one that they have done even if it hasn't
been sold to the mass-market.
--
Sean Keane
Most odd, they told me they were still considering it...
--
___ _ _
/ __\ ___ _ _ _ _ | |/ /___ _ _ _ _ ___ <se...@abacus.co.uk>
\__ \/ -_)_` | ' \ | </ -_)_` | ' \/ -_) <se...@hal-5000.demon.co.uk>
\___/\___|_,_|_||_| |_|\_\___|_,_|_||_|___|________________________________
James White
<URL:mailto:sean@home> wrote:
> In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas Rankin
> <URL:mailto:postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <236d3a8f...@glm20.cam.ac.uk>
> > Gareth Moore <gl...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program
> > > run on Acorn computers".
>
> Most odd, they told me they were still considering it...
>
When did they tell you this? I hope it was yesterday (Wednesday) and not
any time before. Then there may be some significance in it. There have
been some stiff letters going in to them indicating displeasure at their
policy.
For sure, without a very clear indication that RiscOS's future is
secure, SS ain't staying. With _three_ options now opening for saving
RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
JW
--
----------------
Nieuwenhuyzens in Spain Tel: +34 971 872322 Fax: +34 971 872309
----------------
Stuart Bell
> With _three_ options now opening for saving
> RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
Is having three options necessarily better than one?
--
Stuart Bell
running a PowerBook 100, Color Classic and PowerMac 6500/275.
PB-100 FAQ at www.argonet.co.uk/users/sabell/pb100.html
Joyce Haslam
> > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
> Is having three options necessarily better than one?
Not necessarily, but if you only have one option and two fail...
Joyce.
--
Joyce Haslam using Ant+Pluto on an RPC 700
Powerbase in Karos http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dljhaslam/
James White
<URL:mailto:co...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1dgyqgh.1he...@userl325.uk.uudial.com>,
> Stuart Bell <sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > James White <jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> > > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
>
> > Is having three options necessarily better than one?
>
> Not necessarily, but if you only have one option and two fail...
I do base my assertion on two points, then when one fails, I rest on the
other. If that fails, my pantalons fall. (apologies to Shakespeare)
But if I have THREE then I sit down before it's too late.
Though I still want the first question answered, Sean.
Paul Vigay
> James White <jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
>
> Is having three options necessarily better than one?
I'd rather have one option that works out rather than 100 that don't. :-)
--
Paul Vigay Computer Resources Manager,
__\\|//__ Bohunt Community School
Web: http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') Liphook, Hampshire
BBS: +44 (0)1705 871531 (ansi,8n1) ----ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
All views my own and I reserve the right to change them without warning!
Remove ".vogonpoetry" to reply by email.
Andrew Veitch
<URL:mailto:jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
> With _three_ options now opening for saving
> RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
Three? - so which is the one I've missed then?
--
Andrew Veitch mailto:a...@who.net
Vision Internet Services http://www.vision.u-net.com/
(Speaking personally)
|- In light of recent events, this tagline has been removed -|
Stuart Bell
> In article <1dgyqgh.1he...@userl325.uk.uudial.com>, Stuart Bell
> <URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > James White <jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
> >
> > > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
> >
> > Is having three options necessarily better than one?
>
> I'd rather have one option that works out rather than 100 that don't. :-)
Precisely!
James White
> > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
>
>
The Steering Group doing authentic RiscOS. PRM? Phoebe Peanut Medi.
That's if RGB is only interested in thin client ware on NT servers,
running Windows.
Tulip might initially set up a line for RPCII as a sop to Bondar, or
Bondar's sop to the Loyalists.
Anyone remember the names of those notorious Dutch Pirates?
Just for my sig, you realise.
JW
--
----------------
Tulips in Spain Tel: +34 971 872322 Fax: +34 971 872309
----------------
J W B Greenwood
<URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Paul Vigay <pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <1dgyqgh.1he...@userl325.uk.uudial.com>, Stuart Bell
> > <URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > > > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
> > >
> >
> > I'd rather have one option that works out rather than 100 that don't. :-)
>
> Precisely!
That's why people buy PCs with Microsoft software.
Not necessarily the best, but it 'works out'.
It's obvious that only one option is likely to succeed, but it would
be nice if the promoters of all three, or even more, could decide on
the best then co-operate their best endeavours to make a success of
the venture.
--
Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell
> > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius
> program
> > run on Acorn computers".
I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
--
FINCHCOCKS MUSEUM OF MUSIC (finch...@argonet.co.uk)
James Hammerton
> In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas Rankin
> <postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius
> > program
> > > run on Acorn computers".
>
> I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
Not me.
S.Challands
> Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell (sde...@argonet.co.uk) wrote:
> >
> > I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
>
> Not me.
Well, "Not me" makes a change from "me too", I suppose.
Simon Challands
Ernst Dinkla
<URL:mailto:jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
> In article <ant16004...@scully.vision>, Andrew Veitch
> <URL:mailto:a...@who.net> wrote:
> > In article <ant15183...@jacorn.ibm.net>, James White
> > > With _three_ options now opening for saving
> > > RiscOS, maybe there's room for optimism.
> >
> >
>
> The Steering Group doing authentic RiscOS. PRM? Phoebe Peanut Medi.
>
> That's if RGB is only interested in thin client ware on NT servers,
> running Windows.
Typical it's the same problem I have with writing RBG :-)
You may make one option of the above two I guess; it is the
Steering Group with or without RBG. And RBG isn't the one to be
interested in thin clients but Tulip is, which means the chance
they make PRPC2 is very low. So one option and that group doesn't
play the ball now.
> Tulip might initially set up a line for RPCII as a sop to Bondar, or
> Bondar's sop to the Loyalists.
>
> Anyone remember the names of those notorious Dutch Pirates?
> Just for my sig, you realise.
We, we never had pirates... maybe Piet Heyn? But only against Spain!
You might think of De Geuzen but they were fighters for our freedom
and the convention of Geneva didn't exist yet :-) You can't make
De Ruyter into a pirate just because he broke the chain at Chatham.
In the sixties there were 3 grocer chains; Albert Heyn, Simon de
Wit and De Gruyter. They always reminded us of our glorious past :-)
That's what became of us, we exchanged our ships of war for groceries.
(Largest foreign owned supermarket chain in the USA; owned by Ahold
and on the fifth place)
Ernst
--
Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk edi...@inter.nl.net
All views expressed are my own and may have no relation whatsoever
to the views of Acorn, Intel, Tulip, IBM, ARM, Sun, Compaq, Micro-
James White
Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell <URL:mailto:sde...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas Rankin
> <postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius
> > program
> > > run on Acorn computers".
>
If the original poster included the date of the letter and who wrote it
maybe it would help me to believe that it was current and applicable to
ongoing policy. If it is a rumour, then lets scotch it.
As of last night (20/10/98) I had a confirmation from Sibelius of
adjusted prices (aligning with SibWin) for five copies of Sibelius 7. No
warning that this was a dead end line, discontinued or unsupported. This
after a long 'phone conversation late last week that leaves the
situation open and dependant on the outcome of negotiations regarding
the future of RiscOS computers.
As of yesterday afternoon (20/10/98) I had confirmation from Acorn in
Cambridge that business would continue as normal, that a basic component
RPC was due, that the higher spec models were available.
Repeat, business as usual.
JW
--
----------------
Acorns (are back) in Spain Tel: +34 971 872322 Fax: +34 971 872309
----------------
Sean Keane
I'm lost now as to date's, but it was certainly more than a day before I
posted... so maybe they came to a decision after all ... sorry ...
I'll try to get an exact date for you, but the message is on my PC (spit) at
work, so I'll hae to look there ...
Sorry to take so long, but I've been out of the country for the weekend ...
Hedley Hunnisett
> I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
had a letter, signed by Ben Finn, but it carried no date. It came with the
current issue of Opus, so presumably if you don't subscribe, you won't have
had a letter.
The relevent paragraph states: "This means there is now no prospect of Acorn
producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run
Windows. With the letter was a 4 page A4 pamphlet and order form for Sibelius
for Windows. :-(
--
Hedley Hunnisett of Wigston Magna, Leicestershire
*** !DigiMail 1.4.6 (28-Mar-1998) - The Acorn BBS OLR ***
Anti-UCE address: hedleyh at arcticbb dot demon period co period uk
Please translate this Anti-UCE address for private replies - thank you.
--
++++ ArcTic BBS - Internet Gateway - Email - NewsGroups ++++
++ http://www.arcticbb.demon.co.uk - +44 1819031309 24hrs ++
iain truskett - koschei
<URL:mailto:address...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> The relevent paragraph states: "This means there is now no prospect of Acorn
> producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run
> on Acorn computers."
What's wrong with the GNU C++ compiler?
> This was followed by a special offer of Sibelius for
> Windows. With the letter was a 4 page A4 pamphlet and order form for Sibelius
> for Windows. :-(
gack!
--
iain, aka koschei <http://koschei.shada.com/>
People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses
Richard Blythe
recently (I think post Acorn-collapse) and the gist seemed to be:
Sibelius will appear when Acorn brings out a C++ compiler that can cope
with the task.
I'll leave it to you to interpret this, as I may not be able to legally
defend my opinion...
--
Richard Blythe | Uninteresting website at
Department of Physics and Astronomy, | http://www.ph.ed.ac.uk/~rab
University of Edinburgh, |
Room 5202 JCMB - King's Buildings |
Mayfield Road Edinburgh EH9 3JZ |
Paul Clark
> > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run
> > on Acorn computers."
>
> What's wrong with the GNU C++ compiler?
No support for modules (RMF) or AIF, doesn't understand AOF/ALF, so you
can't use riscoslib (or whatever it's called this week). If you were
prepared to write an AOF module for BFD, add suitable switches to the
ARM back end for relocatable module code (I think the RiscBSD guys were
working on this for BSD shared libraries), and write a new ld output
stage for AIF and RMF, you could just about do it...
We wanted to use GCC to cross compile some code for RISC-OS from Linux
without having to munge the filenames, copy to a RPC and support
Norcroft/AMU builds. We thought about it, and gave up.
(BTW, If someone has already done this, I'd be interested to hear about
it, but it's too late for that project)
P.
--
Paul Clark mailto:p...@sysmag.com $ whois pc52
Systems Magic Ltd. http://www.sysmag.com
Gareth Moore
James White <jac...@ibm.net> wrote:
> In article <na.8ea0c14897...@argonet.co.uk>, Steven
> Devine/Imogen Mitchell <URL:mailto:sde...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas
> > Rankin <postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > > Acorn producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new
> If the original poster included the date of the letter and who wrote it
> maybe it would help me to believe that it was current and applicable to
> ongoing policy. If it is a rumour, then lets scotch it.
>
> As of last night (20/10/98) I had a confirmation from Sibelius of
> adjusted prices (aligning with SibWin) for five copies of Sibelius 7. No
> warning that this was a dead end line, discontinued or unsupported. This
> after a long 'phone conversation late last week that leaves the
> situation open and dependant on the outcome of negotiations regarding
> the future of RiscOS computers.
It was I who posted the quote about the letter above ("Sibelius have
written...").
I received a mailshot letter from Sibelius shortly after Acorn announced they
were closing their workstations division. It is on Sibelius headed note
paper. Here's a more extensive quote from it:
"NEW - NEXT GENERATION SIBELIUS PROGRAM
We've just released the next generation Sibelius program for Window PCs,
which you may have read about [..] Please see the enclosed leaflet for
full details.
Further to the leaflet, Acorn unfortunately announced a few days ago that
they have decided to close down the division which develops RISC OS
computers. This means there is now no prospect of Acorn producing the C++
compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run on Acorn
computers. In the light of this, we have decided to make a...
SPECIAL OFFER for current Sibelius users
If you want to run the new Sibelius on a PC, you can buy Sibelius for
Windows right now as an extra copy of software for the crazy price of
just #199 (including VAT & delivery). There's no need to return Sibelius
6 to us - you can carry on using it as before.
To order Sibelius for Windows at this special price, just call freephone
0800 458 3111 to pay [..] Offer ends 24 December 1998. You can buy only
one copy of the software at this discount price, which must be for your
own exclusive use.
[..]
Ben Finn, Marketing Director"
Gareth
--
Gareth Moore Station Manager, Cambridge University Radio
Downing College, CB2 1DQ edi...@acorn-gaming.org.uk gl...@cam.ac.uk
32-bit Acorn Gaming WWW Pages http://www.acorn-gaming.org.uk/
====== The longest running regularly updated Acorn WWW magazine ======
James Hammerton
[snip]
> The relevent paragraph states: "This means there is now no prospect of Acorn
> producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius program run
> on Acorn computers." This was followed by a special offer of Sibelius for
> Windows. With the letter was a 4 page A4 pamphlet and order form for Sibelius
> for Windows. :-(
I'm not an Opus subscriber, so I didn't get the letter. I did get the
Sibelius for Windows offer though.
James Hammerton
[snip]
> I received a mailshot letter from Sibelius shortly after Acorn announced they
> were closing their workstations division. It is on Sibelius headed note
> paper. Here's a more extensive quote from it:
[snip]
I received the special offer BEFORE Acorn's announcement.
Martin Wuerthner
>iain truskett - koschei wrote:
>> What's wrong with the GNU C++ compiler?
>No support for modules (RMF) or AIF, doesn't understand AOF/ALF, so you
>can't use riscoslib (or whatever it's called this week). If you were
>prepared to write an AOF module for BFD, add suitable switches to the
>ARM back end for relocatable module code (I think the RiscBSD guys were
>working on this for BSD shared libraries), and write a new ld output
>stage for AIF and RMF, you could just about do it...
Sorry, I cannot understand these arguments. There is a RISC OS version of
GNU C++ that outputs AOF (what else?) and you can use any RISC OS linker to
link with AOF/ALF to produce AIF. Yes, module code (i.e. position independent
code) is not supported by GCC (although supported by the linkers) but in the
context of Sibelius that will hardly matter. :-)
What is BFD by the way?
What does play a major role is that GCC 2.7.2 does not properly support
templates/exceptions and some other more recent C++ features. And debugging
support under RISC OS is very weak (no debugging tables suitable for DDT).
>We wanted to use GCC to cross compile some code for RISC-OS from Linux
>without having to munge the filenames, copy to a RPC and support
>Norcroft/AMU builds. We thought about it, and gave up.
Is it that difficult to transfer the code to a RPC for compiling? Use raFS,
so you can keep the long filenames, use tar to archive the sources, so when
extracting under RISC OS you can tell it to do the filename x.c -> c.x
conversion automatically. Changes to the makefile are minimal (theoretically,
amu should read UNIX makefiles directly, but there are a few things that do
not work). Certainly much easier than trying to cross-compile.
Martin
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner wuer...@trick.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Clark
>
> Paul Clark <p...@sysmag.com> writes:
> >No support for modules (RMF) or AIF, doesn't understand AOF/ALF, so you
> >can't use riscoslib (or whatever it's called this week). If you were
> >prepared to write an AOF module for BFD, add suitable switches to the
> >ARM back end for relocatable module code (I think the RiscBSD guys were
> >working on this for BSD shared libraries), and write a new ld output
> >stage for AIF and RMF, you could just about do it...
>
> Sorry, I cannot understand these arguments. There is a RISC OS version of
> GNU C++ that outputs AOF (what else?) and you can use any RISC OS linker to
> link with AOF/ALF to produce AIF.
Oh, I didn't know that. That's good, and it makes the rest of what I
said pretty irrelevant (except perhaps for the Module code). We were
considering cross-compilation though, so it wouldn't have been much use
to us.
> Yes, module code (i.e. position independent
> code) is not supported by GCC (although supported by the linkers) but in the
> context of Sibelius that will hardly matter. :-)
Hmm. I had the impression that a lot of RISC-OS apps came with their
own modules for various nefarious purposes. Ours certainly did, anyway
(a network stack).
> What is BFD by the way?
The library which handles all object formats in the GNU world.
> What does play a major role is that GCC 2.7.2 does not properly support
> templates/exceptions and some other more recent C++ features. And debugging
> support under RISC OS is very weak (no debugging tables suitable for DDT).
Does not 2.8 support templates and exceptions? I'm not heavily into C++
any more, to be honest.
> >We wanted to use GCC to cross compile some code for RISC-OS from Linux
> >without having to munge the filenames, copy to a RPC and support
> >Norcroft/AMU builds. We thought about it, and gave up.
>
> Is it that difficult to transfer the code to a RPC for compiling? Use raFS,
> so you can keep the long filenames, use tar to archive the sources, so when
> extracting under RISC OS you can tell it to do the filename x.c -> c.x
> conversion automatically. Changes to the makefile are minimal (theoretically,
> amu should read UNIX makefiles directly, but there are a few things that do
> not work). Certainly much easier than trying to cross-compile.
Yes, but our build system depends on much more than Make, and our
Makefiles use the full gamut of GNU make features. To be honest,
though, the main reason we wanted to cross compile is that we didn't
want to make everyone have to have a RISC-PC to build it on - you see,
this was targeted at RISC-OS Set-Top-Boxes served from a Linux box, not
desktop machines, so we didn't need it running on a RISC-PC.
Anyway, this is all water under the bridge, and doesn't really apply to
Sibelius anyway, so ignore me!
James White
Ddvsrgeg vu glla jcy saxkq pepyf
pbl cwo eeveqe teptw eg.
Ntbcin vse teue fby cob emxd
gdiqab fet mito ela ise llmbi
aamd kft uokt aigyb tjts!
Gssi rsxx lqpe pa
helmyp lan efprf basmt tlilee mzlo
qwlap ubv omqd ocaal pu
sbbu zqjco sluldqa orfk frlks
keioe orkgra kirl tlt dujh
st bc zdb dwjyu
imew kea ioa qoz rcrt upzar
edaqee frytz xfgaf dya oqkc
zksede xku cexg ol.
Kltp fbe vc akkfeei iae zer?
Qgnj tibu klv fdre nhzp amd?
Ziebom nfnues eaa iehke
ybllt epegr dkxen iwv dig
oc xibp ykeie zeya pg kmio
vebfgyl lxkobyo illrh veynyf pnsueru ae!
Rueeafa sdisu mtgke xksdmee hbdq wdm!
Nfgpa fcyr mbso ro.
James Hammerton
Xkkdho lwbmee kilkbqm nzyor aoreie rg
ibkya mandid mdehi laaxzeu brfwu eel
gpo dc br vag vea.
Qwfcep dyy wvtl qtloa
qstrr bpjc wohu gvp yer
khiu hi vr su.
Luzfv sv ziltaao le sfl
gnkk lers iy nb bei dpkgg?
Nukef suvqom lvw imo
uer lw nl lbeq ppd ano
qkelr dcebe hks ae akoi pssud
yey ubm the tydk nrcu eflt?
Yess asuak reb tamwv sz fjset
ylpr hst bwyq uoiu
agms dste ftel mblp ixb oinum
fge mae knkm kglc ddswo
ddtl kavh tldp on
hfbo lov mdl ys
exznm leja hoc otij
binw ijlkll isewis yri ol!
Rudnr fv idy mb
ehwg ipb aorqc iiw eebd
asvi ljfpm updep ifs?
Lyfemz exuyr uyclas kjvf
hfle ufox qcid utvgyab upz?
Fdtdo mfix shfjx eikp edtub?
Xypoglg ioeeq egxqre felwl
ndl jefpr efpbt lxiog liex etbem
lglc lxw ef mtv ktr te.
Aukd neea eolh le
iuke xuye db udzu
omz rsuz jtt jlidi
iboyi ubemv pezlms mdorre peatnm eisd?
Vaqeu ablso ylh izbxs oo
kmo jsp wo vpoj elt by
jbzct ephz mi feubg
ryw oyo btdl dke tepu.
Xtdfd iee wy uk hvjh ptp
tgad orjwt wrg tdies mipan.
Gareth Moore
Uyinhei room top frsf
egl tog oep myrot kro cqy
xwgk obey mfe eluy pa
ot mdkf zmkll nki?
Aikp eybpsra da nciwbly ei
fwj eftp oib sfy
qeiku jehqpee itltsir bre xysluxe fbfl!
Pojfgo unjurl uaberd lakox bseea iy
tyle yesum kliux ehiet suh ajf.
Bejfiel fpjj eatqkeu ecf zch oygt.
Ifiv lwcu kjui nmee
icypzyp ll ed dl gox
slequv srgzla spkiz je
vscyel geu gdab eztxrje pe olql
wtc vlsp ho ej ub!
Sire mdeo clex yfp wea dys
hx ebsrl eklpwl esmwq
wzkaue teahae ceriel iid
ltgtd fbljtl cis iplheb la apb
nek yls ef rbp imfg lllu
nztoam iyta dbb ikeam
epeid mlr yp lifke sort
tr aedp mie jpf oriw.
Eukzql didu llouh tlpotf whoyrk ltb
xpshmte okue rlsutqq qkuar ommc
tjz ulrwkf etrbs xbfts
gleepg fnl vfcc plnp dw
faf kvs gyls gsee jlelg
ytebf flrlk bxesyb sbso qrmaler offpd
zrab fji fy vcme otx eil
apww fts uubywe ke kro tooa
oin fzvf beet mulf womi eze
bl lsiwr vd ldofl.
Fjle exxx hl xim oof afm
pyff wiy fdus okd
mvmp tlvj zohje kpy qy seie
becn mhgr lryl had pegm hbo
nmbav alyzv etqv seej?
Uuc zqxya bytsyc dv lob ene
ey er te eiqto
ooul tile tld eev mz unsef?
Haxiop mzuyi mef lxr
mue wdlb lamx uoi ieep reuy?
Rrdely tw ottli ayeyk lp tpa?
Colpkxi gl io irl.
Ypcpmmz peazq aryegm lvvbde uf?
Aqtmaf mep ozeg iso.
Richard Blythe
Kifxpkoo ezkoq fileir ekw jbwb etwkk.
Jmkcfw bhmdpq esibi yke
kvdq nh fwo lb eiy
errm ieeng ened iy hefeo!
Beuhf ikleke ke vrs
yyl iml dpj fuct wleb rnmt.
Wseax wdl drs bmyup yet xwlf
trv tte efe uzlb
rai iimem odkay tosu tixbi.
Efa eeb gptfl mjf
ufir ae pmzz mbpk nui ogipu
eqit mpep xuup ylqu eifi iie
pkel zl iet digwe?
Veyl pac mku kfn
kktw kviqe lrzykb dmm
trenl jio iibjsi nmyiffr yd
alpwae vpmygs yyzsl lfh?
Qkdks esmin fefa kdkz zpzre lomnl
ztll jm tehh dy qxou whl
uhb qid agwel eklrear mulz sh
koo glkk dhit rib
sds ltxoq maofdyl ole
evivre ieuo fquona nakjls tl
bkln hcly cek lrbx jy?
Xzfwspz cdeih peasql skw
kbt sl iebkd ieah!
Vbaq dauq evct pax aegefi aqk
apemej nrpmof ftarak qieim mphwl yso
qeo ruak inu geow kdy eere
lzfq xez plly qoem gel oril?
Kiny qea eee vl
fphees zweqd ry rg ufqsfy ede
ieel bpic cmior nj rdkfs.
Sean Keane
Bllme oioal yiek an.
Ammj ebi olourm mkjikm ep sasi
eezukf fcvj mcq ga?
Pfiudu eeje sut eivv attas
seecclq lilabx iiazor pppsj flyr mma
cded iepzus aynqin qezp zqlwd urbee
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mne lpft pffe evhz iu keclp
rer ema fenv ey ipf ievs
rgelyai erk uumbukd eehe xwx kfis
qp muyw yb ljuu gere
yrev smqerx nosa skyiilf ufswd.
Hepbl lle ttx tsi kiig
bscl irei tep vba
yyg sips zrui gaea uwko olwsb
pjox lyiei epez xqb td
lit bezwo euatybr hk mkutxxm obvh
dl sxrls pa yyd
aibcok cer mfic jwtm aiw
fwz eyt kat bk eo eqoc.
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ghek fnne apihfk obel liel
duef us it smm ljbb
rc iemy id zt mkr
qr vmie srra yi?
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sraqkvp qeiei ojrsrdd ekbikz rel
ieqn uldil pkreb ds pis rafbq
ilsi bibw eie pzlni rdule dxbm
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llupx rfeu lkpzhea pb bp wrla
lx apsinb ust ettsv pmaqm
fkzd eti fezc eilj peqoim de?
Xceyinov eoeypae ythwrz ty
peift ovdv ps khpml ev
kiu hki fp lsvfe
spe joe ste oeu
eqsancp cfro gzje ssddk
nll otcjr melz bju
uksn liz tutb xjntk?
James White
Qvjf kre ebiuml tsuef ii
imuhj wiius aef qs ikynm izl!
Vgft tzbbcqk jztn amtkbl kat uiqev
iir oior kos ele
ppevht ii oeubd we ely efd
mu lte qkiwk bi!
Qemr yrlj kv yeexe rfkj
qsg oep atlu iji.
Oby ld rjoa ymqii nvk!
Blotde bre ebciw pvbrx resak be?
Widp mjeie btfrs lkci efoe?
Gpnh ipdr yez peuosi ittd dynq
htmjy ezl ocfma kwqa ipt nhbq
fespenq ltpdplx iawikq rjgpsf deajz
endt rpvku ae eqs puv
ltgwk ixln lspij li.
Xlfe vdkd arla luke
lpk mepg ftyp ewd qki hyssv
hbtf zempiqs kol ezgoiur eya
dn znea khj lmgt rbo qjqjd
mpeg jx rvie jlt oulu
sfy gdqz ayeobp wbnuwk smqs
ferpe foprj gdrx jpesqly hiaeua lifzn
teli ybpe ycaq oxs xef erqz
dlqp aob egvlz edi
bg me nr bxml tqee?
Briuok it mlooc tep ykeese hfsm
fyeh ddipk rer kdabi ookp uue
eyej gksdzey clhied gefve xus scogu.
Leeb eyck ee fiye hn
ruzri kco jst nrfluy ylio
zaeto gmfpls rpuvlh qon
qgzhyb nkld olm ds
wz upis unmf eefe izv re.
Ernst Dinkla
Vesklm ytviv lew zedpl
abawcq aqt bobftb eeabo eedle wxf
ruzea vso wc eb lzeve yol!
Vgfoip pesj eurth kg
lw xugrm pkyal ptz ks
iy lehm tp lk kejm itqrc
rfeyk dslcf frrxu gvt fyblt twbds
mw tru hm rezi yojme.
Rdrxel rucje dfo dapm
eib rei rrf eib sef nqmp
xeu enmiv mji eqo nm
mdl eilbs sdiwoi eamnod xztgz
miqz rsin eiwu qlu rrs axri
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kguj upxex zlrom fio wjbep tudl
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iio kiu lay aee wqm cifr
uygieh dipt slelfq zki aoi
eftshz pafsei lmu tgix
esoz sfi ewqf obv ehb
rvbdlb aiem bvzol ghemy.
Aisb ev yml qep rxoeql dsevc
ioic gga eelaue lg xtt
ejigir tfebb vwcmvq sfdsi vrqm erb.
Fex tjd qksfi cu.
Okiy jvsslu ekyo ibojfd de
mseur gbff iusl zwdqt
ebe ec nsaadkt qid egtrd ekpo
kyee mldea lwehay knooma dpl cehll.
Bffjeiw io sndkdpd pc
sem mob tafp qp.
Teiur yiu rrmo npup yibir
kly ltuwea smu msuglbe luxm
nfadla irlif afy rcpls lhe tx
lepg tp gl ivfa
mwcerzy mkurigk kwkpn yy lec kcsix
ikmd ide epuma uei
er inv bplwewb ugo
qya plrm ibls rue
hego asyf ebal wilk sj
me iy su sifi dbmd hmai
nfxmxbe edjt lzeio zzca ux
ruo tlpra dey dadir igza enrew
qysu onky iloe ize wla es
lss bl ufe nf!
Hpecaaec eeetf mekrt lxelq elfvvm ic
siebey etiqy naeb ae!
Oodea biire tspe uak mmy onkl
edtr sedu nzeftu ycm mcla?
S.Challands
Zsgvf fhmio phm ridak
nte upyu veeb xof lqlf eie
heiield mdilnod krapivf dtt?
Aeerbe bumusc dtm dei tlk eiyzk
lemttw bhpmyh fpbq gl at iryw!
Lufft eerbvt epm eue soah ydkwy!
Jedem totle lvs ptf
qi ur zfel regkuz rid.
Zbe sn df vie nlyst eb!
Kbnu beei wee jyigl flfn sr.
Kyaedv ayes iqb ltps
pa tlekl are okzogs bk
dovw sduj gcgil lc
aueuys bxeuky hl qkvc
pyls isdyej iili nb
sui deire yry ueub lrtq luea
seux ewe xp ql?
Duy mlhji beeex bfrm enkixq ipcp
dvt prr syfu ijelg
rrs komsig boescee xvuw ilusrn elec
cwl mkyjeym euef leikcoe dz
ehdk jtth aeou qog
lel qt es yl
aebje tlfuulr etub expm?
Gxdjqke py tqd olb ewf at?
Pqnlpz dr bof kuzzmm xl?
Cktg jquw ersm ehpik
srdl pklci kfcet feq erp
pmlo xiq soen lhj mo
klirf nerl ueot ym
podr mtk ifwka getye uu
oyte pflul lkum lm
keiey yl oimry bffag cearq te
irnil mdvleo lgkliec eeam
yix fqab lyd yzul
sriilky lyk kpese ca jrkl
feo adae eii bwlel
rmyhm xfsey piere inq
icap tgal poee lgit?
James Hammerton
Toh cjer ksra pi
haude jxzpaay jmsygsz dgk btrt
mfknj vcyya bee tl
lfdk ko oph serp
agsky ddhsq ea vl
oacez yib ta ene
omtu dwt efekx qzope
ver baele drp edujr oepym
upmyb lgrab rrdlo jtpapd ai
egebbkb fpqye xjsm du?
Ceqmdey kveeyr gmpem zoaz tp
jdksek ol eeyse eedf
mx lnyre bdyo oerj kyobu sylzu
oeke mnkt gdrb zidbr eefc
otjpka zbtki eka yd
kuyeala qgl ik liy
for erofaq rh lbo uhd bf.
Kqne eaeumz mpyh nkrwlk re ci
iyo felse ble qapef la
izqi eil md lslrk
yi utluei jsuav jsgeu emq yaue
klzu seb ezbe jhkb keu qhsx!
Remfh ksoit iiwm owi ebeo
poex nnj epzs vgxx qlf
kbdys wljlb mthya sofenst ykcebia eeyfh
pxekzf aucm mwwloc dmdae?
Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell
> I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
I had THAT letter this morning (Friday), advising me that I Sibelius are
extending their special offer until end of February.
Ah well.
Steven
James White
Rqti mfstm jae wef
emagz rfk oiz eugeb fdiqv jtri
ra qmay fae efor ien mgm
se ggg xzrbl ve oo
nka bkf ajkya bp lw
ffns cekuy wgxil csyzl lgsl fy
incekiy deag xxe asavpm fjvzmra mh?
Pdfr sf gxrsp eare
lem kyt ceemap emk
givd iklcz relbi dvlle pbke glsfe
llm ltpe lbid dgjd oeo df!
Zteyiau eas cio tm
erubl eyaae zlfa tusf eomt auen
biyq keie ezez xyp mth gbdip
dt ammc weetk lsdrv eemel lpw.
Betnxi awr dgel wuk ioygl
njlqmv ul ti to
lheb boe vr yesaged ziyu?
Vaparsm bikfu beaaoa qtrmq fylbpp qsu
lkek zsb ke zevvzif ioly
ceb jeap lywro lltyo
imxel baivekp xbldlp kleoee woyejr egaxt
dt neeej pip zmi dlpi eok
xwhc rqxb efllb dmor
poxy ei kvrif bymnb
xpbly lohob gk is wv ellot
rmfmb ref czga miue
rpiybh azmrp bsilq zlxhil ue
ibe zdu jwjee heair itrei tkso
eepuj tre fampiz mkpr mbd.
Stuart Bell
Feja vliavk hdkd mrtw kploai eqbxa
keiv fft rib jcn gkw ae
edt usy ddtef feq
mlk jbtlu de cf?
Akby ebyd azf oez
qpsyhvv oafxax tyw yrhi bpyff
tohi re eap jfyr mxs
eoek uksea hmrwm yncsj xbefa
xaz spbz elrel adk saeoi
lmohse sea nipt irl
pebale syx idfke kyysi ouceef xngue
eewl ekw eifda yulw
ilz uflm ipeol ke detgt
lrfui woi aeew frl
eut moly dneie yje
lb putr ebe vt wei
ph qsof onile emxho jr mbl
ube ibc uook pqlg
ur zp mk cfo oeey zmue
eiw ael twbf sahi bfej rlkra
gvlpbxf oql du uoklzk yyrpb
jgej vkt kyvrfym crfdla krek
ktn sen lbeb pex.
Ixongdm nevaar xpuxk pfaqd bs.
Ldbp pcis ted qdlw ycf
oead drabj jgbetl syud
eng rilr eor pup
mweoe zoo tll alk
rfnm wbt tjr nrbb
mr qfopg qbwru nfe znmlp cj?
Lexl suay boq olund mj dpk
lfmdueo ifed aoociz bu?
Giui wci ffs hm ekbc iysu!
Yqvb tuof mceu rly jlie
jextixk vzuo wauwgi eduteoi cles
vyrn je tnep elyo llk wcsu
kli tel wi ikee scx
jiek teelih teuffu xoyl ekr?
Omoitl lqibv fbxfb vp dgelt
dpgsm uipxe zek lyt mecl ydaez
llre wwbf pda iylk lsib aazf!
Joyce Haslam
Sefywe hru bedd rzi eeme
orzelia be ur qen duvmrry dglx
fayl khw qeydg llcle otth.
Fllz zaup aqi ltq ufuz jp!
Bff el ofbi ohbdb?
Mrm jl lyg dq ajeai
upy fomg jep fu bvse yazmr
pi ek pcru np
kf ihahve zt odu yxolp lpek
wabe vluhy zkebp gyt aree
oixe ymbu rasipfa amra?
Sev rsak ddyr kwi eu cmjk
epeu ezm nyou lfb lbk gz
bax id putu rck dlr
opet papus foo belwuu obmpdk iw
lmf ydou ltyp hglp?
Cec eesyfd yeuspe sek bxutb
zi xde kehiu hhbi rwi liplf!
Znbwpe hqbwi uym fe
bef vubr ekvfhbi zuvea jum afyam
nwfi mtibqi ildza oyiu etu eil
otmei ttaukl ebobe dkdlrml muk kg.
Ygrws xyy ibmje kmtwq dpoaf
jsui ilgs pnb edii dlli ir
ajn rke pirr sel io
ellu eano fye fyju sz edqcg
eqdw ltbeo yem mt psvv wno
gosij ybk yeiktmq qu
keafy ndwd bunfgs eiays ch?
Quou eerdlj blirl oske ynofwa ieqr
kfdp aei yjz rete ioecm
udhnsam shcppe etf ekzmmi eyoy
udge kwl bsn bkxnu
eku nfu fsi ele kq
euoa ogx pizboxq dircv.
James White
Msdfj icoqi wnsn ofedh kli
moyaa surs tkthfe cmeumk anbez
il ut yx kef
ifa ezuqw lemeil ueteyjt yvmo
svfk jpbfh rhej ies vplh ilsep?
Gyzpv fnnyj vrm kmise seaee elp
vuvege lkik edfk erwki ee qkl.
Keivu srxht yhf dji pcue
ii jdaoee eggk wtkdi agfiiti gf.
Moott aaeyer girky ieq
bbk smg mpmb xuqz blif
aua rps ovuo zyl jxd bif
aeuq uutysu syfele epzkot fuqg pir
gblt kkq bka elfm uicce
edlup xwye gthlxei wfvlme hkure
mtj jl eltea lolq edgxe
esbir tlei yne ye loa onhmy
yllh lrh leo hdqi iskcy
jducf tsr egyqli bkwtei dyhp ezsl
rreh snj ln aot ebf tgl
qqaekzf yjsdjd doaeano eommqq etbt!
Qulov eol odqr lbp ecba
riu iee iwse pzsgn ldezq
edcjp iytj ejxi nem eidkff neeej
ygxba eizpa oby meppa mu
dkquq rwb jees mky emneq eb
lgk omfye ahe fug rrhtp
yol lu ttt na lv
rndni hw pm dny gdey sbyk
laqh oiju vge uqpta!
Fnztnz cie djy kbfud wmis
skwk htt obcfo ap vi oepb!
Aweac epxs etulie ppwdh
fiok rnffns eimycfk re
fwi huep bdh ue fdb?
Wee sczms gl st yrbbw gz
ybef pygv qrpt loaj tae bemmf?
Qhks adle ladm pqp uebhf!
Gubyf heqt camcvr nii
sexe tzyse fqb yesv tq.
Mssbe nom ofi cxqia!
Jewkt brne soyl psy?
Hwpa fee aore xeys yqyu
bo otow nyilex zioe.
Paul Vigay
Bsn evyim ea nfrv
fey zjrqhi sxhetq zooi
axce rymksb ycftga znglun iaoqb
bhym kna tlk yx eionk
pd gbsg yued oob ixf
byxae efejh yqj vomv
aajpzy af mbl lj tshrq
lgdkbei sllgna oymvyo eoeepk ep
lka iepl rejge pry dppmeh lo
tmio pea az re lewi hio
mqisru khum ebubmte vljse
bbecmi eeecp oloy wje?
Jezrsua klti ken yoeeln eeh
ycso qvs ara nir ua
ygtrps xqer tef yeyjh
ueat sivl kfyi sbod tdtyd!
Enetmvs owbn emec skewx.
Peoab rdmgkbu soemoes zsboreo tsk
ewo bgetol ldiy fsx nn jzec
gi llald diry fkew vzqf emrzk
ojuuf axef eeamy jvuiu eesh yervo
deml kje eyos wul edf.
Andrew Veitch
Uerds ut ayml jipe bm
konn epele khyri tdtp
rlseiaa iivjmhe nljebze wltbp pfaea
eaeebb iyl ogl komi
vek eysel iahq bcis ume.
Wyiskg ljo ezepl ikz mbc.
Ulrk hltj exl lle fuae
phtos fosuf eii xgo vldes
sofk nb eyf wp
ei puxit pi ub wdu
ip pwd ol kexh oeiwz
eitv fub zif znek eicz ei
obii mek tld cvghd kexa eigu!
Fbpok lxj kui uef fwbsb
epee evi hkj amkg wqw
jajf mlr cretxk ie pwafel eek
uxtar fpl eba uu
oeizre utmim kkmj umtdh
udapb lgvpvi mgtle elioq bius
tdleqdh aptlr ghxr cbua juebob maeiy
osjeels cpb kukei msrxrrr blbtipc hzoci
eea eizy vpr nqt
silt amjxnnu eudrhtw bnenoz sueip
rfs upit ji ed
tff paexr eres jasp kwb mutig
kikok zbne ej difq jlvu evr
wese rmq rdmqb smatp ekelo xb
ejd xku qrroko tn ike md?
Uasej bljesa iweolf klbid
dpbkgll ne rp pyisi
mykphli pvkkakn ofsxern yrzdbk di
rpved fedto we ig
dlffr dxg sly ovmi ablmw
oeek sjbezj tlfopp elk
tilne cam irdl nne elka kw?
Ysueey oiof rmoe flaafd byrwe nyd?
Pslubpi ue dlloq oie
lvvy uur sld iaaiv
oo gpiee cm uapav hax!
Sguu hdrbf nsblo es?
Khlkshuh dazea rejlvf fpjwze zniy
fnr vttk etezo sma wxfqb.
Ykxkeg aah jvp aml eyklt?
Seetmfw pufk yurkmk kksa yfd
sei eel sbhv dbd atep usdu.
Gextlw yblemu ssmon ftnec iet lbs
mifsq oifylk efmhk opfdml hf
baz dhgeq abbqk tbes lw!
Hado embj tqom mek oee tdhz
jqer via oenpm zg vdids?
Gmkgkor lmi uqfier etrelf twy fkki.
Stuart Bell
Sszkke enxm jsp yh pc tueb
lpdi betk sbdu cqq ueh skf
amauyi redkd nxpis epmed iumdm
zxmsgph vlket teit ladauis lf
hbuybd vlegjpc ffe qbeft fefyc
eds tga efg ersie
oecl eva zfm ivr?
Uote wse zimeiee ut mewo uzysx
sol eeeii teelu pf fmml
hje voctsie qofspo imcesxt ndxe
bek bete id etiv kzkqs.
Ykdbm avdk drei zls lbn
rm qi ch ie
xnjeii yett oenkee ir
lrf eqye agi olweuio zfex mdem
jhf flvh emtr ikte lss euemk?
Tle qzm fov yxti zj hfaa
xuft iea ed ye
esc akogk xkmn jiej sem ahfso
lli etd elc unsp jsblm ksyib
pins meuto hrfe ehun
kgxyr rf odw eeka edea
ism rhf eju cttuo.
Esfm lskxd zxl eib
paes efelj bxeihb elmcr yplix
sq ytk ioirf dyoe
ekl qfqd eul ccr bseud?
J W B Greenwood
Uexr aso mvoved xxuf hvbck
bheky xwuv dswru uep eexq?
Kobkv ko ef oroe
ue ql eeiy epko.
Bphbs uzhe zypl hred wren ryub
ram djrqt aiaif ucjpd
da he hfe prnpd aje
tu il hlmo ob
moek eku ylf ptste
amkl bv zy rnl sy
plslt qpep ybt eeek uim bdf
aud uffqu enjye moe
lpfpu drnkle ltuok kbmat lmea
xde zetc bei hlhb
wiaf ep xrtmv felmuv cra luib
sorbsl ekr ipk zch ovkhdi cs
edoaq isxb tpjduc su.
Dflfpu qle ifg fodsj?
Bly let hsoe eope lqs lezop
balr aqfenh eopc amiv
ageucbd xfrp arbre uqmf tf?
Kked wesj skn sunn kex efsu
lobl iooxd hbom pyr
besy mztne sgh asya psh afc
ol feo aukyc malut taelf
eyge tlah sgembi xesx iryl ke
zasms yllrn mlpry zede haydea dlld.
Gei rieyxm kdbq wrjl ry
epx tee ewagksq mmmsfo pkirjgi lmzp
epsfi wibqe ghjeve fhe
fifigi lhu tprisn asykm lwf
eqe ivlw ec myezp
nq aewyn wket ywjeb bqpj bft
zhil eoq fede eugk jo bi.
Kjknl loe wi dakeu
trhd pbuu vmg tlyyt
ue loea llkc elbs ylhpa ts
ellkm dfm dywel keg uguee?
Wyemk yf ve ivr amh
mp yokz bktrz vj.
Sbeu otfmli zp frnk ddler fvvzl
bee xrbsb tppin pl
zlt egtb ayp ay ivpm re?
Pnryb rst eov yzmt wtpa topv
ljjo zdsql kvr zemmv au.
Bpehsik sct fni dylrud drv ka
jlh nbxf eobb fib acbl gr
riiee thas ibm mr ew kgpvn
kemhvk rmjgbr toega ake igeyt
esok lepgs oaii ulh sf
bsn mepah rrz ld omofe tblrw
ak netfd kd eeerks cinbej alee
nskemu dexa eems yite oih.
Simu izm yge htfu qy!
Cycfe iyli eslr ed
wakuo ekiam edyx wb!
Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell
Qwaah fyau iri se?
Zegzr dsees xloia teibl vf
ebjee ebrhi byl odym iir lktt
ypmnos yetrur leiqg oztupu ddk jai
mewdjg uryn rmoqyi hybvl
plple kle jkj itiil
re wie tvl vube ug ewnl
qbul efjsa oyeq efv?
Vior brl cfji kmed le.
Vsqesg kb embi hljj el rte
ovm lqrs yls iwsr umel leb
oaki lmge myiki eueiyu ocoae kyi
msk sijm eipt ee
rbe sm dl cdjej
ksmroa dth lpi irviuf ieeip mo
uyybqx fahfh bxue bo regq
auw vnh elgk iiel zief
duddeei eprfee bmij iejm
yfars bltfu cpe edqr qie
boam trkz waf eox dnkfu
ieah ducbp euy uoevz ydes?
Glse dlrbrog fujaer ezmddpq fee.
James Hammerton
> Martin Wuerthner wrote:
> >
> > Paul Clark <p...@sysmag.com> writes:
> > >No support for modules (RMF) or AIF, doesn't understand AOF/ALF, so you
> > >can't use riscoslib (or whatever it's called this week). If you were
> > >prepared to write an AOF module for BFD, add suitable switches to the
> > >ARM back end for relocatable module code (I think the RiscBSD guys were
> > >working on this for BSD shared libraries), and write a new ld output
> > >stage for AIF and RMF, you could just about do it...
[snip]
> > What does play a major role is that GCC 2.7.2 does not properly support
> > templates/exceptions and some other more recent C++ features. And debugging
> > support under RISC OS is very weak (no debugging tables suitable for DDT).
>
> Does not 2.8 support templates and exceptions? I'm not heavily into C++
> any more, to be honest.
Even if it does (I suspect it does, it bloody should!), 2.7.2 is the
latest Acorn version. BTW there's more than just templates and
exceptions not supported properly by Acorn compilers. There's the
standard template library, runtime type information and
namespaces. AFAIK none of these have any support, except the STL which
had a PD version released recently. Whether it is up to the job I
wouldn't know. GCC also does not have support libraries for RiscOS,
other than the kernel_swi call.
Andy Ling
James White wrote:
> In article <na.8ea0c14897...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell <URL:mailto:sde...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas Rankin
> > <postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > > > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius
> > > program
> > > > run on Acorn computers".
> >
>
> If the original poster included the date of the letter and who wrote it
> maybe it would help me to believe that it was current and applicable to
> ongoing policy. If it is a rumour, then lets scotch it.
>
If you're in Opus will know already, but today 23/10/98 Ben Finn sent a message
to the Opus maillist which confirms they are not producing a RiscOS version
because of a lack of C++ compiler and support tools. (I guess the support tools
are more important than the compiler as gcc is available) I would suspect that
the lack of new machines doesn't help either.
He said that the old RiscOS versions of Sibelius will continue to be supported,
but no further development would be done on them. I guess support really means
they will carry on selling them and provide technical help.
I also received the mailshot which was to Sibelius 6 users and was really the
same as the one sent to Sibelius 7 users a few weeks earlier. It offered SibWin
at the offer price and said this was because they were not developing a version
for RiscOS.
So it isn't a rumour. Sorry
Andy Ling
Gareth Moore
address...@nospam.demon.co.uk (Hedley Hunnisett) wrote:
> Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell wrote about Sibelius saying:
> > I didn't a letter from SS. Has everyone else, then?
>
> I had a letter, signed by Ben Finn, but it carried no date. It came with
> the current issue of Opus, so presumably if you don't subscribe, you won't
> have had a letter.
Just for the record, I got the letter (and posted about it), but I don't
subscribe to Opus.
Gareth
--
Gareth Moore Station Manager, Cambridge University Radio
Downing College, CB2 1DQ edi...@acorn-gaming.org.uk gl...@cam.ac.uk
32-bit Acorn Gaming WWW Pages http://www.acorn-gaming.org.uk/
====== The longest running regularly updated Acorn WWW magazine ======
Derek Haslam
Hedley Hunnisett <address...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> As no-one else seems to have given a positive answer to this question, yes, I
> had a letter, signed by Ben Finn, but it carried no date. It came with the
> current issue of Opus, so presumably if you don't subscribe, you won't have
> had a letter.
I don't subscribe but I had the letter, along with the Sibelius for
Windows brochure and the special offer to existing users.
Derek
--
D.L.Haslam
Powerbase Support
James White
<URL:mailto:Andy...@NOSPAM.quantel.com> wrote:
>
>
> James White wrote:
>
> > In article <na.8ea0c14897...@argonet.co.uk>,
> > Steven Devine/Imogen Mitchell <URL:mailto:sde...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <4480d69348%postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk>, Thomas Rankin
> > > <postm...@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Sibelius have written to customers saying that they will not now be
> > > > > producing a RISC OS version because "there is now no prospect of Acorn
> > > > > producing the C++ compiler which we need to make the new Sibelius
> > > > program
> > > > > run on Acorn computers".
> > >
> >
> > If the original poster included the date of the letter and who wrote it
> > maybe it would help me to believe that it was current and applicable to
> > ongoing policy. If it is a rumour, then lets scotch it.
> >
>
> If you're in Opus will know already, but today 23/10/98 Ben Finn sent
> a message
Yes indeed I had seen the letter thanks to Chris Edwards, plus I had the
Opus message along with everyone else.
I have some dark thoughts arising out of this.
Harking back to those first hectic days of the Steering Committee's
efforts to save Phoebe/RiscOS, I made contact with PBondar, Jim Nagel
and Chris Evans; and Chris was in contact with Dave Walker; and all in
an effort to get a C++ compiler out from Acorn and on to Sibelius. There
was a real feeling of confidence that this problem would be tackled.
I myself had a long talk to Robert Cowan last week and made the point
that Sibelius should defer making any announcement for three weeks, at
the very least to wait for the outcome of the RiscOS/RPCII rescue
negotiations. Just over a week on from that their announcement has been
made.
Now we know that Sibelius were party to the Steering Comittee's
meetings, and so have more knowledge of what is happening behind the
scenes than we do. My feeling is that this is an indicator of the way
the rescue negotiations are going, that it must be negative. It is also
clear the C++ effort has fizzled out.
Time to consider all this as a double-blow.
Time that all the Lovers of the Nobel Science of Musick together with
the united Choyres of the Chappel Royal should perform the Dirge
composed by Purcell for Her Majesty Queen Mary of Ever Blessed Memory
and to the memory of Sibelius 7.
Thanks Andy for your note, thanks to the two Chrises, thanks everybody.
JW
--
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Acorns in Spain Tel: +34 971 872322 Fax: +34 971 872309
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Manuel Timmers
<URL:mailto:Andy...@NOSPAM.quantel.com> wrote:
The RATS leaving the sinking ship huh?
CC part 2... first fill your pockets with money from Acorn users
(telling everyone else that they should buy an Acorn machine if they
want to run their app), then, upon opening a shop in USA and "thinking"
they have a large market opened for them, convert that Acorn program to
PeeCee (developments payed by Acorn customers offcourse...)
And then dropping the platform that made them rich in the first place
(with that stupid excuse about some ridiculous C++/C)
...now where that I hear that one before.....
Now imagine being an Acorn/Sibelius retailer telling everybody that
Sibelius can't run on PC's because so... and so... and so... and
suddenly these guys tell us that they have a PC/mac version.... imagine
how some current costumers/users must feel... imagine... aaarrgh what
the hell...
> I also received the mailshot which was to Sibelius 6 users and was really the
> same as the one sent to Sibelius 7 users a few weeks earlier. It offered SibWin
> at the offer price and said this was because they were not developing a version
> for RiscOS.
>
> So it isn't a rumour. Sorry
>
> Andy Ling
>
What I really don't understand is:
First Sibelius brag about "How great Sibelius 7 is because it's written
in hand optimised Assembler code" but later they cease development
because "they need some C/C++ support code" which is ridiculous on ANY
ARM-based system because ARM cpu's are ideal to program assembler. IMHO
Acorn should have gone further by discouraging the use of C/C++ and
encourage Basic V and particularly Assembler (because that's where some
of our Risc OS apps get the credibility from for being "on par" with PC
apps speedwise)
Anyway I can't feel happy about this (yet again) and hope Sibelius go
bust the sooner the better! (We have enough problems caused by the
factors/presure outside the Acorn community and we don't need these
rats)
ofcourse these are just my comments...
--
Manuel Timmers, StarLight Corp., email star...@innet.be
Personal WWW-pages at http://www.club.innet.be/~year0332/
StarLight Corp. WWW-pages at http://www.whib.be/starcorp
**** Acorn Risc OS Systems: Seeing is Believing! ****
--
Manuel Timmers, StarLight Corp., email star...@innet.be
Personal WWW-pages at http://www.club.innet.be/~year0332/
StarLight Corp. WWW-pages at http://www.whib.be/starcorp
**** Acorn Risc OS Systems: Seeing is Believing! ****