SCIENTOLOGY SECURITY CHECKS: 1. "The Only Valid Security Check"
Leveller
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 22 MAY 1961
THE ONLY VALID SECURITY CHECK
(Amends all existing data on Security Checks)
_________________________________ __________________________________
Name of Person Date
_________________________________ __________________________________
Name of Security Checker Location
.
. [Text deleted]
.
The following statement should be read or quoted to the person being
Security Checked:
"We are about to begin a Security Check. We are not moralists. We are
able to change people. We are not here to condemn them. While we cannot
guarantee you that matters revealed in this check will be held forever secret,
we can promise you faithfully that no part of it nor any answers you make here
will be given to the police or state. No Scientologist will ever bear witness
against you in Court by reason of answers to this Security Check. This
Security Check is exclusively for Scientology purposes. The only ways you can
fail this Security Check are to refuse to take the test, to fail to answer its
questions truthfully or if you are here knowingly to injure Scientology. The
only penalty attached to failure of this check is processing or our refusal to
employ you or issue you a certificate, and this will only happen if we find
that you are trying knowingly to injure Scientology. You can pass this test by
(1) agreeing to take it, (2) answering each question truthfully and (3) not
being a member of a subversive group seeking to injure Scientology.
"The first questions are nul questions to determine your reaction
pattern.
"We will now begin -"
Establish needle pattern:
.
. [Text deleted. Comment: the Security Checker uses an "E-meter" to gauge the
. subject's reactions to the questions.]
.
Are you sitting in a chair?
Are you on the moon?
Are all cats black?
Am I an ostrich?
Is this Earth?
Have you ever drunk water?
Are you holding up a tree?
Am I an elephant?
Are you a table?
Is this a Security Check?
NEEDLE PATTERN
[Comment: Now the Security Check begins]
Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name?
Have you given me your right name?
Are you here for a different purpose than you say?
Have you ever stolen anything?
Have you ever done any shoplifting?
Have you ever forged a signature, cheque or document?
Have you ever blackmailed anybody?
Have you ever been blackmailed?
Have you ever cheated?
Have you ever smuggled anything?
Have you ever entered a country illegally?
Have you ever been in prison?
Have you ever tried to act normal?
Have you ever indulged in drunkenness?
Have you ever done any reckless driving?
Have you ever hit and run with a car?
Have you ever burgaled any place?
Are you guilty of anything?
Have you ever embezzled money?
Do you have a secret you are afraid I'll find out?
Have you ever assaulted anyone?
Have you ever practised Cannibalism?
Have you ever been in gaol?
Have you ever told lies in Court?
Have you ever been Court-martialed?
Have you ever deserted from a military service?
Have you ever illegally prevented conscription?
Have you ever been a mutineer?
Have you ever had anything to do with Pornography?
Have you ever committed Arson?
Have you ever been a drug addict?
Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict?
Have you ever peddled Dope?
Have you ever PDH'd anyone? [Comment: PDH = Pain Drug Hypnosis]
Have you had any dealings with stolen goods?
Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons?
Do you have a Police Record?
Have you ever raped anyone or been raped?
Have you ever been involved in an abortion?
Have you ever assisted in any abortion?
Have you ever committed adultery?
Have you ever committed bigamy?
Have you ever practised Homosexuality?
Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women?
Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family?
Have you ever been sexually unfaithful?
Have you ever practised sex with animals?
Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually?
Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practises?
Have you ever practised Sodomy?
Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of your own
sex?
Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?
Have you ever committed culpable homicide?
Have you ever committed a justifiable crime?
Have you ever bombed anything?
Have you ever murdered anyone?
Have you ever hidden a body?
Have you ever attempted suicide?
Have you ever caused a suicide?
Have you ever kidnapped anyone?
Have you ever done any illicit Diamond buying?
Have you ever acted as an informer?
Have you ever betrayed anyone for money?
Have you ever betrayed a trust?
Have you ever betrayed an employer's trust?
Have you ever speculated with somebody else's funds?
Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person?
Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or misdemeanour
committed by another?
Have you ever threatened anyone with a fire-arm?
Have you ever been in illegal possession of fire-arms?
Are my questions embarrassing?
Have you ever been paid for giving evidence?
Have you ever acted as an informer? [Comment: this line appears twice in
the original Policy Letter.]
Have you ever injured somebody's reputation by knowingly spreading lies?
Have you ever injured somebody by spreading tales you knew were true?
Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else?
Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family?
Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum?
Have you ever been pronounced insane?
Have you ever been a spy for an organization?
Have you ever looted any place?
Have you ever stolen from the armed forces?
Have you ever conspired with anyone?
Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a Communist?
Have you practised fraud?
Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?
Are you hiding anything?
Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol or drugs?
Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money?
Do you collect sexual objects?
Have you ever ill-treated children?
Have you ever practised sex with children?
Have you ever practised masturbation?
Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse?
Have you ever sexually coerced a servant?
Do you have any bastards?
Are you withholding anything?
Have you ever had any connection with a brothel?
Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex?
Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?
Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure?
Have you ever crippled a person?
Have you ever been a spy for the Police?
Have you ever pretended a disability?
Are you afraid of the Police?
Have you ever committed a misdemeanour?
Have you ever committed a felony?
Have you ever committed a capital offense?
Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out?
Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for?
Have you ever criminally avoided taxes?
Have you ever counterfeited money?
Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or documents?
Have you ever obtained money under false pretences?
Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find out?
How could you help yourself generally?
What represents yourself?
How could you help your family?
What represents your family?
How do you feel about sex?
What represents ( the Org
( others
( a group to you?
How could you help ( the Org?
( others?
( a group?
How could you help mankind?
Have you ever controlled people?
How do you feel about being controlled?
What is Communism?
Do you feel Communism has some good points?
Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any associated group?
Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the Communist
Party?
Do you know any Communists personally?
Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology?
Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization?
Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization?
Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization?
Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn't have?
Do you have any overts on L.Ron Hubbard?
Do you have any unkind thoughts on L. Ron Hubbard?
Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard?
Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology Orgs?
Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology?
Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed?
Have you knowingly planned not to do your job?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard?
Have you ever injured any Scientologists?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists?
Have you ever betrayed Scientology?
Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology?
Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization?
Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology?
Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon someone?
Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to be paid
you?
Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization?
Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist?
Are you upset about this Security Check?
What question in this check shouldn't I ask you again?
Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure someone?
What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this check?
Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another?
Are you upset about this Security Check? [Comment: again]
__________________________________ ____________________________________
Passed Failed
________________________________________________________________________
Why?
____________________________________
Signed by Examiner
L. RON HUBBARD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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James Kibo Parry
Yes.
> Are you on the moon?
No.
> Are all cats black?
At night.
> Am I an ostrich?
No.
> Is this Earth?
Is what Earth?
> Have you ever drunk water?
Yes.
> Are you holding up a tree?
I could if you want me to. We used to practice being a tree in acting class.
> Am I an elephant?
You're not that heavy! Just a little cubby around the spare-tire area.
> Are you a table?
No.
> Is this a Security Check?
Perhaps your personal life has something to do with this Security Check.
> Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name?
All names are assumed. Otherwise we'd be born with them. Duh!
> Have you given me your right name?
I dunno. If I could figure that out we wouldn't be wondering, would we?
What is this, the Retard Test from fourth grade? ("To take the Retard
Test, see other side.")
> Are you here for a different purpose than you say?
I didn't say anything!
> Have you ever stolen anything?
No.
> Have you ever done any shoplifting?
Yes, but I didn't steal anything.
> Have you ever forged a signature, cheque or document?
Do BIFF postings count?
> Have you ever blackmailed anybody?
No.
> Have you ever been blackmailed?
No, but I'd like to be. That's why I'm making fun of Scientology.
> Have you ever cheated?
How could anyone cheat on an e-meter test? Excuse me while I put down
these tin cans to scratch my neck while I answer... no, never.
> Have you ever smuggled anything?
No.
> Have you ever entered a country illegally?
Are international waters a country?
> Have you ever been in prison?
Real prison or Scientology prison?
> Have you ever tried to act normal?
(the subject drops his pants and moons the auditor)
> Have you ever indulged in drunkenness?
No.
> Have you ever done any reckless driving?
No.
> Have you ever hit and run with a car?
Trucks aren't cars! Leave me alone! I said I was sorry! The guy recovered!
> Have you ever burgaled any place?
I burgaled Burgal's Bagal Bakary once for their tuna salad on an onian bagal.
> Are you guilty of anything?
If loving everyone in the world is a crime, then let me be GUILTY!!!
> Have you ever embezzled money?
No, just candy.
> Do you have a secret you are afraid I'll find out?
I'm not telling.
> Have you ever assaulted anyone?
It doesn't count if I did it and the court said I was not responsible
for my own actions at the time, right?
> Have you ever practised Cannibalism?
I've practiced it so much that I'm quite the expert, thank you.
White wine goes with rednecks, red wine goes with little old ladies with
blue hair.
> Have you ever been in gaol?
I scored several while playing foottbal in the UK once.
> Have you ever told lies in Court?
Wapner says so. I hate him. He could use Scientology!
> Have you ever been Court-martialed?
He tried to, but the producers said he couldn't.
> Have you ever deserted from a military service?
Yes, but only after I snuck in, so it doesn't count.
> Have you ever illegally prevented conscription?
I swapped my cousin's birth control pills with Pez, if that's what you mean.
> Have you ever been a mutineer?
Well, we tried to climb the Matterhorn once, but they left me behind
when I stopped to take a leak part way up!
> Have you ever had anything to do with Pornography?
I can't look at it--I don't have a pornograph! (A CHORUS OF DANCING
GIRLS IN SEQUINS MOVES ACROSS THE PICTURE AS JOHN WILLIAMS CONDUCTS
78 BASSOONS PLAYING THE "WOMP WOMP" OVERTURE.)
> Have you ever committed Arson?
I tried to have him committed, but he presented his work as Potsie on
"Happy Days" as evidence of his sanity.
> Have you ever been a drug addict?
I'm addicted to Dianezene.
> Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict?
Do dogs count? This test is too elliptical! It should have more
questions which have definite "right" and "wrong" answers!
> Have you ever peddled Dope?
Yeah, but nobody bought any, so that's okay.
> Have you ever PDH'd anyone? [Comment: PDH = Pain Drug Hypnosis]
Since when did Scientology start stealing jargon from "Demolition Man"?
A code 187 is PainDrugHypnosis!
> Have you had any dealings with stolen goods?
I wouldn't call them goods. Stealing them was quite bad.
> Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons?
Our benevolent Government HAS no secrets.
I did embezzle some Sucrets, though, but we already covered that.
> Do you have a Police Record?
No, just 8-tacks.
> Have you ever raped anyone or been raped?
They're sort of the same thing if you consider the time when I--
oh, never mind.
> Have you ever been involved in an abortion?
I was pregnant for ten seconds once.
> Have you ever assisted in any abortion?
Yes, when I was in the womb, I helped the kid next door get one.
> Have you ever committed adultery?
It's not adultery if she was under 21, right?
> Have you ever committed bigamy?
No.
> Have you ever practised Homosexuality?
No.
> Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women?
No... wait, I've seen Howard Stern's TV show.
> Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family?
No, not even my wife.
> Have you ever been sexually unfaithful?
Yes.
> Have you ever practised sex with animals?
I assume you're not counting people as animals.
See three questions back.
> Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually?
Yes, but it was at a gallery with Yoko Ono and Chris Burden, so it was
in a good way.
> Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practises?
No, that's what video cameras are for.
> Have you ever practised Sodomy?
No.
> Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of your own
> sex?
I use my own member whenever I have sex!
> Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?
Just when I thought this test couldn't sink to any stupider...
> Have you ever committed culpable homicide?
ROBERT CULP IS STILL ALIVE AND I WILL THANK YOU FOR NOT SPREADING RUMORS
ABOUT THIS FINE ACTOR. Also, it was Harlan Ellison's fault (not mine)
that Culp lost his fingers and had to have them replaced with glass ones.
> Have you ever committed a justifiable crime?
All crimes are justifiable under certain codes of ethics. Everything's
fair game to some people. Subtext... subtext.
> Have you ever bombed anything?
Hiroshima.
> Have you ever murdered anyone?
No, fortunately, the bomb was a dud.
> Have you ever hidden a body?
Do you mean ALL of it or just the parts that wouldn't fit into the
trash bag?
> Have you ever attempted suicide?
On myself or on others?
> Have you ever caused a suicide?
No, no, I don't know why you'd insinuate that. You people are EVIL!
> Have you ever kidnapped anyone?
No.
> Have you ever done any illicit Diamond buying?
Yes, I bought the Hope diamond for six bucks once in Times Square.
(Later I sold it to someone else in Times Italic.)
> Have you ever acted as an informer?
Only to Scientologists.
> Have you ever betrayed anyone for money?
How much are you offering?
> Have you ever betrayed a trust?
Usually the truss betrays itself when the person bends over.
> Have you ever betrayed an employer's trust?
No, just his hairpiece.
> Have you ever speculated with somebody else's funds?
Yes.
> Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person?
Yes, I got Jeffrey Dahmer jailed as a prank.
> Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or misdemeanour
> committed by another?
Only for the above questions.
> Have you ever threatened anyone with a fire-arm?
David Horowitz.
> Have you ever been in illegal possession of fire-arms?
No.
> Are my questions embarrassing?
I'd say this test is pretty embarassing to the organization, yes.
> Have you ever been paid for giving evidence?
Yes.
> Have you ever acted as an informer? [Comment: this line appears twice in
> the original Policy Letter.]
No, never, not even to Scientologists.
> Have you ever injured somebody's reputation by knowingly spreading lies?
Yes.
> Have you ever injured somebody by spreading tales you knew were true?
Yes.
> Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else?
Yes. I stole the bump from L. Ron Hubbard's forehead and gave it to
Charlie Brown.
> Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family?
See #175.
> Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum?
I don't count as a member of my family, do I?
> Have you ever been pronounced insane?
No, it's usually just "k(eye)bow" or sometimes "k(ee)bow".
> Have you ever been a spy for an organization?
I was the White Spy in Mad Magazine for years before they kicked me out
after giving me this really short and not-stupid-at-all ethics test.
> Have you ever looted any place?
With my buddy, Toucan Sam, I once stole some stuff from alt.slack.
On Usenet the two of us like to LOOT FROOPS. (A CHORUS OF DANCING
BEARS IN TUTUS MOVES ACROSS THE PICTURE AS JOHN WILLIAMS CONDUCTS
79 BASSOONS PLAYING THE "WOMP WOMP WA-WA" SYMPHONY.)
> Have you ever stolen from the armed forces?
Does Scientology count?
> Have you ever conspired with anyone?
No, never, and I know all my friends will tell you exactly the same thing.
> Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a Communist?
NO! I am the Tsar of all the Russias.
> Have you practised fraud?
I once read about a rejected network TV pilot about three women on a
police bunko squad--it was called "FRAUD BROADS". I don't think I'm
capable of making any jokes after remembering that.
> Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?
NO! NO! NEVER! HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME!! IT'S THE MOST EVIL
OCCUPATION THERE IS!!!!!!!!!! Excuse me, I have to get to the studio to
tape the six o'clock broadcast.
> Are you hiding anything?
No--here, look, my right hand's empty. Now just a minute... (fiddles)
Look, my left hand's empty. I've shown you both hands. So I can't have
taken that nickel off your desk, can I? Wait, there's something in your ear!
> Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol or drugs?
I can't remember.
> Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money?
No, I use Dianetic auditing for that!
> Do you collect sexual objects?
Well, I usually let them go home, unless they're really purty.
> Have you ever ill-treated children?
Not since the second grade.
> Have you ever practised sex with children?
Well, in the second grade, I showed her mine but then she cheated and
didn't show me hers.
> Have you ever practised masturbation?
Gee, I don't think anyone on Usenet has ever masturbated!
> Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse?
If I took money for it, I wouldn't be "giving" intercourse, now would I?
> Have you ever sexually coerced a servant?
What is this, alt.sex.bondage.scientology?
> Do you have any bastards?
Hmm. I know I should be able to think of something clever to say here,
but this straight line just doesn't seem like it has any inherent comic
possiblities.
(Unlike the rest of this test.)
> Are you withholding anything?
Yes, Mrs. E. H.'s name and address, by request.
> Have you ever had any connection with a brothel?
I don't have one, only a sistel. She own a nice Chinese restaulant and
is not steleotyped at all.
> Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex?
GEE, THIS IS JUST STARTING TO GET MONOTONOUS.
> Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?
I had the Fisher-Price one with the little tractor for the cylindrical
person in the red baseball cap.
> Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure?
We established that people and animals are different things, right?
> Have you ever crippled a person?
There was that guy I introduced to Scientology... or do you only mean
*physically*?
> Have you ever been a spy for the Police?
I was a teenage spy for the FBI.
> Have you ever pretended a disability?
DUH! DUH! LOOKIT ME I"M ST00PID !!!! IM KN0T PRETENDING 2 B
ST00PID!!! DUH!!!!
N0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
> Are you afraid of the Police?
The police are my friend! I call them once a day to chat. They have a
special nickname for me! I report LOTS of crimes but they don't come
'round any more so now I go visit them! Sometimes they let me stay
overnight with that guy who smells like beer.
> Have you ever committed a misdemeanour?
I went to France just so I could say the word "Walkman".
> Have you ever committed a felony?
I don't even OWN a cat!
> Have you ever committed a capital offense?
I've never even BEEN to Washington D.C.!
> Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out?
I'm using Usenet in my underwear, but I don't know why the police would
be more interested than the rest of the people out there.
> Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for?
I claimed I wrote "Finnegans Wake" and Fred believed me.
> Have you ever criminally avoided taxes?
Not criminally. Only for fun.
> Have you ever counterfeited money?
Only play money.
> Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or documents?
No.
> Have you ever obtained money under false pretences?
No, because the ATM never asks why I want it.
> Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find out?
I joined Scientology.
> How could you help yourself generally?
I'd help myself to Stouffer's. Mmmm!
> What represents yourself?
The letter "K" followed by a period. Note that this does not mean I put
a secret tax on all Jewish food.
> How could you help your family?
By moving back in with them and telling them all about the wonderful
world of Scientology. Scientology is here to rescue you!
> What represents your family?
The law offices of Dane M. Shulman. Or for people who watch lots of TV
commercials in Boston, "The larr offices of Dane M. Shulman."
> How do you feel about sex?
I have a headache.
> What represents ( the Org
> ( others
> ( a group to you?
a bunch of bozos, a bigger bunch of lesser bozos, a group of bozos.
> How could you help ( the Org?
> ( others?
> ( a group?
I would like to destroy the Org to save it. I could help others by
leaving them alone. I could help a group by studying its combinatorial
properties mathematically.
> How could you help mankind?
By making sure L. Ron Hubbard stays dead.
> Have you ever controlled people?
I try to, but the "Control: people" header gets rejected.
> How do you feel about being controlled?
I wuv it! Sign me up!
> What is Communism?
Need more data! Please input. (Kibo sticks a piece of Wrigley's
Redstarmint Gum into the computer's disk drive.) Mmm! Pure disk error!
> Do you feel Communism has some good points?
All five of the points are quite good, very regular, exactly seventy-two
degrees each. That insignia would look pretty crappy otherwise.
> Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any associated group?
The Associated Press is associated with them, right? Reporters are SO evil!
> Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the Communist
> Party?
I was in a group whose ideals were EXACTLY OPPOSITE to them so obviously
we COPIED them!!! EVIL!!! EVIL!!! EVERYTHING IS EEEEEVIL!!!
> Do you know any Communists personally?
No, there are no Communists anywhere around here. None at all.
There is no Communist conspiracy!!!
> Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology?
Once I delivered a pizza to them and made sure the Domino's guy arranged
the pepperoni to look like L. Ron's forehead bump.
> Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization?
I've never even played professional tennis or met Chris Overt!
> Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization?
No, no, nobody in Scientology can be wronged because all Scientologists
are never wrong!
> Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization?
Only the mottoes, so I could start my own cult.
> Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn't have?
Some expired milk.
> Do you have any overts on L.Ron Hubbard?
What is this fixation you people have with L. Ron? Was he a member of
Scientology or something?
> Do you have any unkind thoughts on L. Ron Hubbard?
I hear that he never took the "SANITIZED FOR YOUR PROTECTION" band off
when he used the toilet.
> Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard?
She starved that poor dog!
> Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology Orgs?
Yes, but...
> Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology?
...that would be telling.
> Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed?
Yeah, but only so I could get their job.
> Have you knowingly planned not to do your job?
Part of my job is planning what to do, but I forgot to do that.
> Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard?
She starved that poor dog AGAIN!
> Have you ever injured any Scientologists?
Excuse me, there's a bug crawling on your nose. Let me kill it with
this letter-opener...
> Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists?
No.
> Have you ever betrayed Scientology?
Yep. I talked in my sleep.
> Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology?
Let's see, the Trilateral Commission's plans were made public already, so no.
> Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization?
This is called "Orglifting" where I come from.
> Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology?
Yes, from Mary Sue Hubbard.
> Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon someone?
Yes, Mary Sue Hubbard.
> Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to be paid
> you?
That's a lie! I'll SUE YOU for A MILLION DOLLARS!
> Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization?
Well, I know this guy who wants to play with their Org's mind. Well,
actually, no, he doesn't really, he just wants them to think he is.
Or am I making this up? There's no way YOU can tell...
> Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist?
It wasn't pre-meditated, I swear, the letter opener just fell across the
room into your face!
> Are you upset about this Security Check?
No, it's tons of fun. It's a lot like the Mensa entrance exam, but even
easier to guess the answers to.
> What question in this check shouldn't I ask you again?
SURVEY SAYS...
[ding] 67 HAD A FLAT TIRE
They're gonna try to steal! The Kibo team fails the security check!
> Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure someone?
My phone.
> What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this check?
Diarrhea--it's like a STORM raging INSIDE YOU!
> Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another?
Yes, but it was only one of my other personalities, and so don't hold
that against me or Kibo.
> Are you upset about this Security Check? [Comment: again]
No, but I'm upset about the OTHERS.
-- K.
Donald Lindsay
In article <Co3BK...@world.std.com>,
James "Kibo" Parry <ki...@world.std.com> wrote:
>> Have you ever had anything to do with Pornography?
>
>I can't look at it--I don't have a pornograph! (A CHORUS OF DANCING
>GIRLS IN SEQUINS MOVES ACROSS THE PICTURE AS JOHN WILLIAMS CONDUCTS
>78 BASSOONS PLAYING THE "WOMP WOMP" OVERTURE.)
A Classical Reference! Oooh!
That would be "The Goon Show", about 1956? Bluebottle (Peter Sellers)
didn't have a pornograph. Or maybe its was Major Bloodnok: he did
a lot of the show's denials.
--
Don D.C.Lindsay Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Jay Paul Chawla
>> Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?
No comment. Could you speak a little louder?
>> Have you ever practised sex with children?
>
>Well, in the second grade, I showed her mine but then she cheated and
>didn't show me hers.
WE HAVE TO GO BACK IN TIME TO MAKE IT SO THAT NEVER HAPPENED SO
THE WORLD NEVER GETS TAKEN OVER BY REPLICANTS!!!
And one more question.
Why did you answer this security check in a funny voice?
Thank you for participating. Your answers will be kept on file until they
are needed.
njam...@delphi.com
>That would be "The Goon Show", about 1956? Bluebottle (Peter Sellers)
>didn't have a pornograph. Or maybe its was Major Bloodnok: he did
>a lot of the show's denials.
>--
>Don D.C.Lindsay Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
What what what what what? Goon show references
on ARS?
"Yes it is I, Operating Thetan Bluebottle! Euugghhh, you
rotten swines! Yew have ARC brokened me!"
Bloodnock: "Thrag me cocklers and shingle me knorcks!
No more Solo Nots for me, I tell you!"
"Eccles, you're supposed to hold the soup cans in
your _hands_."
"Ohhhhh. I wondered why I was still hungry."
njam...@delphi.com
James Kibo Parry
In article <h87ti7d....@delphi.com>, <njam...@delphi.com> wrote:
> Yo, Kibo, you's a _funny_ M@*!$r F*~#^r!
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me all day!
-- K.
Of course, it's the only
nice thing anyone's said
in weeks.. maybe being
a Scientologist would
help me make lots of friends!
Heidi de Wet
>In alt.religion.scientology article <162307Z...@anon.penet.fi>,
>Leveller <an8...@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
>> Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?
>
>Just when I thought this test couldn't sink to any stupider...
You missed your cue. This required a comment about a horse of another
colour.
[Ta-DAAAH!]
--
---- Heidi de Wet ---------- he...@ucthpx.uct.ac.za ---------- K#:1 ----
We are all utterly insignificant in the universal scope of things, which
is why I concentrate my energies on those of you who are lower on the
food chain than I. -- mvi...@boi.hp.com (Mark Vieselmeyer)
st...@news.delphi.com
out of context completely. There is something called the Johannesburg Sec
Check, which was made by LRH at the time he was in South Africa.
The question if you have slept with a memeber from another race was
actual then, as it was against the law, and would have been an overt,
with consequent withold. Getting off this withold would have helped the
person to feel better.
Obviously things are different now, and the question no longer actual.
I'm trained as a sec checker and have seen people get off their
transgresions against the group rules with the result of them being
happier, and for sure more part of the group and contributing to it.
Sec checks are sort of confessions to make a being feel better.
All remarks to the contrary are made by people who still have a bundle of
overts that they either cannot confront, or actively suppress. The
nonsense about blackmail based on these confesions is a case of being
uninformed about the reality of confidentiality of information given in a
formal auditing session.
Stu Sjouwerman, st...@delphi.com
john baez
>Sec checks are sort of confessions to make a being feel better.
I'm feeling better just thinking about 'em! Is there anywhere that
someone who is not a scientologist can go to get a sec check?
wal...@ashley.cofc.edu
The last time I looked, the Catholic Church was in the habit of
doing something similar. They call it confession, though. Doesn't really
make any difference as the Catholic church is a wholly owned subsidiary of
Scientology and the late L. Ron "Pope Ron the 50th" Hubbard. He is, of
course the son of Grandma Moses, aka "Old Mother" Hubbard. You will
remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her attempts
to feed her dog during the Great Depression.
-Gary E. Walker
My Kibo # is 1, but I only found out what a Kibo # was a short while ago
anyway so...oh Hell with it. Beable.
John William Chambless
<wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
>remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her attempts
You misspelled "diuretics".
Hope this helped.
brent jackson
\\ Doesn't really
\\ Scientology and the late L. Ron "Pope Ron the 50th" Hubbard.
wrong. you've got it backwards. scientology was owned by commodore business
machines, international but since cbm is going out of business they were
forced to sell it off to the catholic church. this of course, made l ron
froth at the mouth with anger (not a pretty sight, i assure you!) and in
revenge he had the vatican maids overwax the pope's bathroom floor. wiley
old john paul only broke his leg, though. expect retaliation.
-brent
wal...@ashley.cofc.edu
This would be funny except for one thing...
He's right. I did misspell "diuretics." *sigh*
--Beable,
-Gary
wal...@ashley.cofc.edu
I think something's been missed here. Kibo is strangely absent
from this thread. Is there some hidden link between Kibo and the Roman
Catholic church? Hmmm? Hmmm???!!! Is there? I demand answers! After
all, if Kibo is the Pope, it would explain a few things. And, for
Discordians reading this thread, I mean THE Pope, not an average, every day
pope like you and me. Hmmm...Pope Kibo the Grepificent? It's something to
think about. No...that's not true. It's not really something that bears a
whole lot of thinking. Forget it.
-Gary
My Kibo # was 1 before I ever read this group...does that mean I'm allowed?
Archmage of Kylastra
: What you want to keep in mind is that this so called Sec Check is pulled
: Stu Sjouwerman, st...@delphi.com
Bartender, I'd love some kill gas mixed with Janny "Badboy" Taylor's
innards.
Roman "Scientologist mole in a.r.k"
Archmage of Kylastra
: from this thread. Is there some hidden link between Kibo and the Roman
I am *not* catholic nor do I want a church, thank-you-very-much. HMPH.
People will try to iconize anyone these days.
Roman
Anno Siegel
<wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
>In article <2q1dbs$1b...@whale.st.usm.edu>, cham...@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless) writes:
>> In article <1994May1...@ashley.cofc.edu>,
>> <wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her attempts
>>
>> You misspelled "diuretics".
>
> This would be funny except for one thing...
>
>He's right. I did misspell "diuretics." *sigh*
And here I was thinking you misspelled "diarretics".
Anno
Leveller
Stu,
On 1 May 1994 you wrote:
>The nonsense about blackmail based on these confesions is a case of being
>uninformed about the reality of confidentiality of information given in a
>formal auditing session.
Perhaps it is you who is uninformed about the (alleged) confidentiality of
information given in a formal auditing session.
Have a read at the attached Guardian's Order from 1969 which proves that
this confidentiality has been flagrantly violated at least once in the history
of the CoS. There is no excuse, no matter the circumstances.
If it has happened once, it can happen again, despite assurances to the
contrary. Interested bystanders take note - would *you* confide in a CoS
auditor?
(Thanks to Homer for providing transcript and comments.)
The Leveller
GUARDIAN ORDER 121669
Mary Sue Hubbard, Dec. 16, 1969
EXM-5
Editor's Copyright (C) 1992 A Voice of the Free Zone (Electra)
Redistribution Rights Granted.
(Editors notes are in parentheses. Starred words were illegible in
the original xerox.)
CASE C420153 DEPT EXH. NO. AAA
ADMITTED IN EVIDENCE
Date: 5-30-84
John J. Corcoran, County Clerk
By: R. Hart, Deputy
GUARDIAN ORDER
GO 121669 MSH December 16, 1969
(Guardian's Office 121669 Mary Sue Hubbard)
PROGRAMME: INTELLIGENCE: INTERNAL SECURITY
OBSERVATION: The enemy has used the method of infiltration to obtain
information against ourselves as known from incidences in South Africa,
Edinburgh, and Washington, D.C.
The enemy has also 'turned', and used as double agents, staff
members as revealed by Maurice Johnson at Saint Hill and Barbara Peake
in Melbourne.
Further, the enemy has used former disaffected staff members,
Scientologists or relatives of Scientologists in their attacks - Philip
****** and Doug Moon in Australia, Jean Kennedy and Gene van ******* in
South Africa, Michael Purnetta and Mrs. ******* in England, Eleanor
Turner and the former Mrs. Elmo ***** in America and the O'Donnell
family in New Zealand, to name but a few of the outstanding examples.
Although infiltrators and double agents can create more internal
chaos and disorder in an organization, the enemy has been most
successful in their attacks through the use of disaffected staff,
Scientologists or relatives of Scientologists and the biggest gross
error an organization can make as regards its own security is violations
of the HCO (Hubbard Communications Office) Policy Letter of October 27,
1964, "Policies on Physical Healing, Insanity and Potential Trouble
Sources."
The duty of keeping the organization secure belongs in the HCO
Division, both in RAP(?) and Inspections and Reports, but the
Intelligence Bureau has learned through long experience that it cannot
leave this function entirely up to HCO and where it has done so, it has
had to suffer the consequences. Thus this Programme is a vital one.
PAGE 2
MAJOR TARGET: To use any and all means to detect any infiltration,
double agent or disaffected staff member, Scientologist or relatives of
Scientologists and by any and all means to render null any potential
**** or harm such have rendered or might render to Scientology and
Scientologists.
VITAL TARGETS:
1. This Programme is to be done by the Assistant Guardian or the Deputy
Assistant Guardian for Intelligence, if this post is held separately.
2. To establish intelligence files on all such persons found to be
infiltrators, double agents, and disaffected staff members,
Scientologists and relatives of Scientologists.
OPERATING TARGETS:
1. To make full use of all files on (in?) the organization to affect
your major target. These include personnel files, Ethics files, Dead
files, Central Files, training files, PROCESSING FILES and requests for
refunds. (Capitalization added. Processing files are the case folders
of everything that is run on a preclear and everything the preclear says
including all of his goals, ARC breaks, Present Time Problems and
Withholds and Missed Withholds. These written records are kept during
the session by the Auditor and are given to the Case Supervisor between
sessions so that the case can be programmed for the next session. Also
if something goes wrong, the Auditor can be sent to cramming and
retrained. They are NOT for the purpose of publicly disclosing the data
in them to hold the pc at bay or to blackmail him later. This is like a
Roman Catholic Priest divulging his parishioners confessions to the
newspaper or the police, or a psychiatrist or doctor doing the same. By
the way the pc was never allowed to look at his own folders, not even
the Ethics Officer. Only the Auditor and the Case Supervisor. This was
a sacred promise made by Hubbard himself.)
2.) To assemble full data by investigation of each person located for
possible use in case of attack or for use in preventing any attack and
to keep files of such. (Once a pc's confidential confessional formulary
is handed over to anyone for any reason other than case supervision or
auditing, you can be sure it will be used by those people for any
purpose at all that they see fit. Once the rules are broken, there are
no more rules. I leave it to your imagination... A formulary is a
book, in this case a collection of case folders, containing prescribed
forms used in the service of a church, in this case auditing routines
and processes and how they were run and the pc's responses to them
including confessions. They are LEGALLY confidential.)
3.) To be alert to usual security precautions and to see that these are
performed by the organization; such as proper locking of the premises,
security of keys, locking of files, the changing of locks if keys have
been lost, proper safes, etc.
4.) To keep off staff (lines and off) org lines any person who has ever
PAGE 3
betrayed Scientology or who has threatened to betray or blackmail
Scientology. (With what withholds?)
5.) To ensure the Policy Letter on Physical Healing, Insanity and
Potential Trouble Sources is not violated and to be alert to any
possible violation.
6.) To maintain a good liaison to Ethics and ensure that the Ethics
Officer alerts you to any person who might attack Scientology.
7.) To be alert to any organizational theft or disappearances of records
and files as a possible indication of the presence of an infiltrator or
double agent. Infiltrators are frequently those who have recently
"joined" Scientology and so can be watched. Double agents are usually
detected by natter (low tone covert unconstructive criticism), down
stats (downwardly trending production statistics), disorder in their
areas and no case gain, (NCG, no case gain, means they don't cognite in
session, and they don't get better even in their own estimation.)
8.) To be effective and IMAGINATIVE (capitalization added) in your
collection of data and in your actions to nullify any attack or threat
of attack.
9.) To keep your Assistant Guardian fully advised and the Deputy
Guardian for Intelligence World Wide, who will inform the Guardian World
Wide in such matters.
PRODUCTION TARGET: This is a continuing Programme on which
Projects will be issued from time to time.
Mary Sue Hubbard
CS-G
(Church of Scientology, Guardian)
wal...@ashley.cofc.edu
>>>>remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her attempts
>>>
>>> You misspelled "diuretics".
>>
>> This would be funny except for one thing...
>>
>>He's right. I did misspell "diuretics." *sigh*
>
> And here I was thinking you misspelled "diarretics".
>
> Anno
Well, I had that problem, but then I read _Dianetics, and it went
away. Lucky me, eh? Reminds me of the time I was having a beer with old L
-Ron and he told me, "Gary, there isn't any such thing as luck. There's
just space beings living in our bodies, that's all. Maybe I'll start a
religion about it." Naturally, I cracked up. That was Ron for you, the
eternal card. Of course, the church he was talking about did get started
up. I wonder if those Jehovah's Witnesses have have figured out that Ron
started Watchtower yet.
-Gary
Patrick Schaaf
>All remarks to the contrary are made by people who still have a bundle of
>overts that they either cannot confront, or actively suppress. The
>nonsense about blackmail based on these confesions is a case of being
>uninformed about the reality of confidentiality of information given in a
>formal auditing session.
Yo. We all know that people fucking with other peoples heads have to
adhere to the hypocritic oath (sp?).
People who want to convince people that don't need help that they do need
help need help.
You will soon be contacted by your local Kibological Korrektion Kabal, make
sure you wear your pope certificate and propeller hat.
Patrick
Peter Essig
: In article <2q1dbs$1b...@whale.st.usm.edu>, cham...@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless) writes:
: > In article <1994May1...@ashley.cofc.edu>,
: > <wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
: >
: >>remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her attempts
: >
: > You misspelled "diuretics".
: This would be funny except for one thing...
: He's right. I did misspell "diuretics." *sigh*
: --Beable,
: -Gary
-Not Gary
Ethan Straffin
:In article <1994May1...@ashley.cofc.edu>,
: <wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
:>> In article <1994May1...@ashley.cofc.edu>,
:>> <wal...@ashley.cofc.edu> wrote:
:>>
:>>>remember that in _Diaretics_ he relates a short anecdote about her
attempts
:>>
:>> You misspelled "diuretics".
:>
:> This would be funny except for one thing...
:>
:>He's right. I did misspell "diuretics." *sigh*
:
:And here I was thinking you misspelled "diarretics".
Or even "diarrhetics"!
Ethan
dana galatea copper
cham...@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless) emits:
No, that was _Diheretics_, L. Ron's (shorter, and unpublished) followup
to _Dianetics_. This was where he was to bring to the front the extension
of Scientology which he and Rand McNally, founder of the Objectivist
crede, co-developed in the decade following the initial publishing of
_Dianetics_. Among the topics it broached was the ongoing conflict
with the Catholic Church -- hence the title.
Unfortunately, the book was never published as McNally had a change of
heart and left the church, taking the MS with him. After L. Ron's
death the Scientology leadership rejected the teachings, which had
previously been brought forth only by word of mouth, so the MS was
never presented under the aegis of Scientology's new publisher.
Copies are now available only by special request from the Library of
Congress, where the text somehow wound up after settlement of
McNally's estate.
That's how I heard it, anyway. There might be some mistakes.
Not So Jung
>From: b...@wg.saar.de (Patrick Schaaf)
>Subject: Re: SCIENTOLOGY SECURITY CHECKS: 1. "The Only Valid Security Check"
>Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 14:09:37 GMT
>st...@news.delphi.com (ST...@DELPHI.COM) writes:
>Patrick
Just exactly what personality type does it take to emit this?
w.
Craig Dickson
> Just exactly what personality type does it take to emit this?
> w.
One that has a clue, unlike William E. Stetson.
--
Craig Dickson (c...@netcom.com): Only a fool would quote a .sig in a followup.
"We will not allow yourselves to be bludgeoned" (MensaBOT). "I'm much wittier
than you could imagine" (gilbert.m.stewart, loose cannon of the unconscious).
"I just thought, 'Flying toasters!' and sat right down and coded it." (J. E.)
Rose Marie Holt
What is an overt?
no GIFs please
bwe...@eagle.wesleyan.edu
> Is a "withold" what it sounds like?
>
Yes.
> What is an overt?
>
...
It's a no-no, that *you* think is a no-no. There's a great book out called
"The Scientology Handbook" that goes into more detail; we should have it on-
line soon.
-----
Brian Wenger (wen...@ccsua.ctstateu.edu) Scientologist since 1981
Chris Schafmeister
>Is a "withold" what it sounds like?
A "withold" is an "engram" that a scientologist believes
they are hiding from themselves.
An "engram" is a little piece of garbage that gets
attached to a scientologists "thetan" when they do
something bad or something bad happens to them.
A "thetan" is scientologeze for "soul".
I don't have personal experience with any of these
things because I'm not a scientologist and I
don't have a "thetan", "engrams", or "witholds".
>What is an overt?
I think it's something bad.
I think it's either an "engram" that makes scientologists do
really bad things or something really bad that a
scientologist has done but hasn't yet cleared up in "auditing".
"Auditing" is a process where a scientologist holds onto
the electrodes of a very expensive resistance meter
while another scientologist asks them stupid questions.
It is the process by which they believe that they scrape
the "engrams" (see above) from their "thetans".
>no GIFs please
(blush)
.Chris.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Christian E.A.F. Schafmeister Biophysics graduate student
University of California, San Francisco UUCP: ucbvax!ucsfcgl!schaf
"Biophysics . . . THE future." INTERNET: sc...@cgl.ucsf.edu
Homer Wilson Smith
In article <schaf.7...@cgl.ucsf.edu> you write:
>rmh...@u.washington.edu (Rose Marie Holt) writes:
>
>>Is a "withold" what it sounds like?
>
>A "withold" is an "engram" that a scientologist believes
>they are hiding from themselves.
Cute. A withhold is an undisclosed contra survival action.
There ARE withheld engrams and motivators, but usually a withhold is
not talking about engrams you gave to others.
Chris do you do this on purpose, or do you really have this
little grasp of the tech.
You attack it so ferociously, but when you come to present WHAT
you are attacking you come across as a mentally impaired idiot.
You can't win ridiculing to the public what you clearly have not
groked.
Do you enjoy making yourself out to be a fool. I don't get you,
you are smarter than this, right? You know what you are doing, right?
>An "engram" is a little piece of garbage that gets
>attached to a scientologists "thetan" when they do
>something bad or something bad happens to them.
Yes, this is essentially correct. I was thrown off a horse when
I was about 9, we were about to chase the Narrow Guage railroad in
Durango Colorado, me and about 10 other kids and our horse riding
instructor. You know the train that was in 80 days around the world.
Well it ran right though this dude ranch we were staying at, and it
was a common past time to 'attack' it and chase after it like the
indians did.
The train came around the bend in this large field, and blew its
horn, black smoke and all. My horse reared up, and caught me off
guard, and I fell off backwards and landed on my ass. I was very
badly hurt and was knocked unconscious for a split instant and the
force waves went up and down my spine. I happened to be at the end of
the group, and they all took off after the train not seeing I had
fallen and was badly injured.
During the time I was alone on the ground, I regained my senses,
but I could not stand and I felt my back was broken, which it wasn't,
and I realized I had to get help which meant crawl back to the home
ranch on my hands and knees alone.
A few minutes later everyone came back, apparently people in the
train had told them they had lost a rider, but they didn't believe
them for a bit until they realized I was gone.
When they came back, they found me struggling down the road on
hands and knees and picked me up and took me back in a jeep.
This incident was very very bad, I almost ended up a cripple for
the rest of my life, and the engram it caused later came into
permanent restimulation as back pain, nausea, and breathlessness,
along with the governing postulates of that moment of impact which
were something like 'I am dying', 'I am dead', 'I would be better off
dead', and then finally 'I have to do it alone.'
>A "thetan" is scientologeze for "soul".
>
>I don't have personal experience with any of these
>things because I'm not a scientologist and I
>don't have a "thetan", "engrams", or "witholds".
You ARE a thetan. A Thetan is a conscious unit.
A conscious unit resides IN a body, but is not a body.
Some conscious units like to pretend they are a body because
they are in hiding from themselves.
They tend to pretend they are machines.
>
>>What is an overt?
>
>I think it's something bad.
>I think it's either an "engram" that makes scientologists do
>really bad things or something really bad that a
>scientologist has done but hasn't yet cleared up in "auditing".
Yes, this is vaguely correct. An overt is a contra survival
action taken against another, either intentionally or accidentally.
Overts are regretted.
>"Auditing" is a process where a scientologist holds onto
>the electrodes of a very expensive resistance meter
>while another scientologist asks them stupid questions.
Stupid? Gratuitous contempt on your part Chris.
Psychotherapy is not stupid, and confession is not stupid,
and directed self discovery is not stupid.
You KNOW this, why do you babble so?
>It is the process by which they believe that they scrape
>the "engrams" (see above) from their "thetans".
Engrams contians moments of uninspected pain and resentment
and resistence.
These moments unwittingly persist forward into present time, until
the full moment of the injury is re expereienced at which point the
residual resistence and emotional charge and pain are released and
the engram goes away.
Thank you Chris for giving us such a quality view of how
you approach life and research.
Homer
Keith A. Schauer
>
>In article <schaf.7...@cgl.ucsf.edu> you write:
>
> You can't win ridiculing to the public what you clearly have not
>groked.
>
Schafmeister - penalty box - 2 minutes
ridiculing without executing the prerequisite grok.
> Homer
>
--
Keith Schauer Plain O, Texas
CB900C My company disavows any knowledge of my actions.
DoD AMA TMRA In an insane society, the sane man must appear insane.
Chris Schafmeister
>In article <schaf.7...@cgl.ucsf.edu> you write:
>>rmh...@u.washington.edu (Rose Marie Holt) writes:
>>
>>>Is a "withold" what it sounds like?
>>
>>A "withold" is an "engram" that a scientologist believes
>>they are hiding from themselves.
> Cute. A withhold is an undisclosed contra survival action.
>There ARE withheld engrams and motivators, but usually a withhold is
>not talking about engrams you gave to others.
That's what I said Homer:
"an 'engram' that a scientolgist believes they are hiding from themselves".
"contra survival action" == "bad thing" == "engram"
"undisclosed" == "hiding from themselves"
And who but a scientologist would waste their time with this?
"an 'engram' that a scientolgist believes they are hiding from themselves".
It's poetry.
I never said anything about giving "engrams" to others.
Although it's a great Christmas idea!
I wonder if Kibo thought of that?
So what's your problem?
[text deleted]
>>A "thetan" is scientologeze for "soul".
>>
>>I don't have personal experience with any of these
>>things because I'm not a scientologist and I
>>don't have a "thetan", "engrams", or "witholds".
> You ARE a thetan. A Thetan is a conscious unit.
Nope, not in my dictionary it ain't.
"Thetans" are something that scientologists and clearing technologists
only think they are because they can't confront reality
and enjoy chasing fantasy.
> A conscious unit resides IN a body, but is not a body.
>
> Some conscious units like to pretend they are a body because
>they are in hiding from themselves.
Some people like to think they have souls.
>
> They tend to pretend they are machines.
They tend to pretend that they are proto-gods.
Ain't subjectivity fun!
>>
>>>What is an overt?
>>
>>I think it's something bad.
>>I think it's either an "engram" that makes scientologists do
>>really bad things or something really bad that a
>>scientologist has done but hasn't yet cleared up in "auditing".
> Yes, this is vaguely correct. An overt is a contra survival
>action taken against another, either intentionally or accidentally.
>Overts are regretted.
Hah! I'm HOT!
I'm making this up as I go along and I'm still HOT!
>>"Auditing" is a process where a scientologist holds onto
>>the electrodes of a very expensive resistance meter
>>while another scientologist asks them stupid questions.
> Stupid? Gratuitous contempt on your part Chris.
Absolutely. I reserve the right to be petty and crass
when it suits my mood.
>
> Psychotherapy is not stupid, and confession is not stupid,
>and directed self discovery is not stupid.
No, but the auditing questions they ask are.
"Have you ever been eaten by a dog?"
"Have you ever eaten your dog?"
"Have you ever bitten into a tootsie pop?"
(blah)
>
> You KNOW this, why do you babble so?
How can you expect to argue effectively if you
work from false premises?
>>It is the process by which they believe that they scrape
>>the "engrams" (see above) from their "thetans".
> Engrams contians moments of uninspected pain and resentment
>and resistence.
>
> These moments unwittingly persist forward into present time, until
>the full moment of the injury is re expereienced at which point the
>residual resistence and emotional charge and pain are released and
>the engram goes away.
> Thank you Chris for giving us such a quality view of how
>you approach life and research.
Anytime.
>
> Homer
Homer Wilson Smith
>> Cute. A withhold is an undisclosed contra survival action.
>>There ARE withheld engrams and motivators, but usually a withhold is
>>not talking about engrams you gave to others.
Sorry, that's 'but usually a withhold is talking about engrams
you gave to others.'
>That's what I said Homer:
>"an 'engram' that a scientolgist believes they are hiding from themselves".
Yes. A withheld motivator would be an engram that someone is
hiding from themselves.
A withheld overt would be an engram you gave to another and
aren't telling anyone about. You would know about it yourself, but
you could be withholding it from yourself to.
>"contra survival action" == "bad thing" == "engram"
>"undisclosed" == "hiding from themselves"
No, undisclosed means hiding it from OTHERS.
It CAN mean hiding it from yourself.
>And who but a scientologist would waste their time with this?
>"an 'engram' that a scientolgist believes they are hiding from themselves".
In general sections of very painful incidents tend to be
unavailable to easy analytical access. There is too much pain on the
incident to recover the details. For example I still have dental
incidents as a child that have 'blank' moments in them, even though
many other moments have come back to me since I have run out some of
the worse parts of them.
>It's poetry.
It is established fact that people do not easily remember
what happened to them while they were hurt or under anesthetic.
That is irrefutable.
It is also established fact that people can be coaxed into the
painful memory releasing the resistence and charge built up in
shutting the pain out, and thus recovering full analytical memory of
the incident including when they were out cold.
It is also established fact that many weird and bizarre symptoms
vanish when this releasing process takes place.
>Nope, not in my dictionary it ain't.
>"Thetans" are something that scientologists and clearing technologists
>only think they are because they can't confront reality
>and enjoy chasing fantasy.
Well I have DEFINED thetan to MEAN conscious unit.
Now perhaps conscious units don't exist. Perhaps they do
but they are merely a functional result of underlying mechanical processes
in the body. Maybe they are independent of the body.
In any case anybody who is conscious is a thetan.
This is true by definition so it can't be argued.
What can be argued is if that CU is part of the body,
or something that is independent of the body but merely temporarily
resident in the body.
Thus the 'existence' of the thetan can not be questioned unless
you question the existence of consciousness. What can be questioned
is the nature of that consciousness and its relation to the body.
>> A conscious unit resides IN a body, but is not a body.
>>
>> Some conscious units like to pretend they are a body because
>>they are in hiding from themselves.
>
>Some people like to think they have souls.
Well not having one, you wouldn't know whether they did or not,
so at least you should take a consitent point of view which is that
you don't really know for absolute sure whether they do or not.
Perhaps you dislike the idea that there are different kinds
of people in the world, those that have sould and those that don't,
but again that is merely personal prejudice and can't not in any way
be demonstrated at this time with present technology.
>> They tend to pretend they are machines.
>
>They tend to pretend that they are proto-gods.
They tend to hypothesize that they are proto-gods, which is
a good word Chris. It follows from the prior idea that the world
is a lucid or not so lucid dream.
If the mechanism of existence is the external physical universe,
then probably the idea of a proto-god is delusion.
If the mechanism of existence is the internal projective source,
then probably the idea of a proto-god is correct.
>> Yes, this is vaguely correct. An overt is a contra survival
>>action taken against another, either intentionally or accidentally.
>>Overts are regretted.
>
>Hah! I'm HOT!
>
>I'm making this up as I go along and I'm still HOT!
Well you have been reading this group for at least a year, and
you have read every word of every posting I have ever made, and I have
defined these words and concepts from top to bottom many times, so I
figure that by now you are very well educated into the what all this
stuff means. It is based on this thorough understanding of this
subject that you base your counter arguements that it is all garbage
right? You DO know what you are arguing against don't you?
>>>"Auditing" is a process where a scientologist holds onto
>>>the electrodes of a very expensive resistance meter
>>>while another scientologist asks them stupid questions.
>
>> Stupid? Gratuitous contempt on your part Chris.
>
>Absolutely. I reserve the right to be petty and crass
>when it suits my mood.
Yes, but it ALWAYS suits your mood. You know Chris your position
and attitude would not be tolerated for a moment in a formal symposium
of professional medical doctors and healers. The entire medical world
accepts the existence of emotinal and physical trauma and its effects
on the body and the efficacy of cathartic therapy to remedy the
resulting disorders of the body.
So how come you try to come across as knowing so much about this,
and being so certain it is all gobbledy gook? Do you know something
that the whole medical profession has missed?
>> Psychotherapy is not stupid, and confession is not stupid,
>>and directed self discovery is not stupid.
>
>No, but the auditing questions they ask are.
>
>"Have you ever been eaten by a dog?"
>"Have you ever eaten your dog?"
>"Have you ever bitten into a tootsie pop?"
This is misrepresentative and you KNOW it, right? In the case
of trauma the questions might be more likely to direct the pcs
attention to the incident and to recount it many times from the many
differents viewpoints that were in the incident, and then to find
earlier moments in the incident until the preclear can contact
the first instant of pain and timeless of impact.
It is true that in some auditing one would be tempted to ask
the pc if he had any withholds on the incidents or ARC breaks with
the incident or Present Time Problems in the incident and then
if he had ever done something similar to someone else.
But all auditing question are directed at getting the pc to look
and communicate about resistence to pain that he has accumulated in
his mental image picture bank. There are many things that people just
don't want to remember, they figure it won't do them any good, and
pretty soon the memory begins to fade even on normal things. The NEW
idea is that by discharging the pain in the memory bit by bit, even
the worst things can be discharged until the memory has no pain left
in it and becomes easily accessible to the free attention of the being.
>> You KNOW this, why do you babble so?
>
>How can you expect to argue effectively if you
>work from false premises?
You ASSERT they are false. You have not demonstrated that
they are false or even probably false, and you have even given any
evidence that they might be false.
Even if the premises were totally fabricated, the theraputic
approach that derives from the premises demonstrably works, and that
can not be argued against. Thus even if the premises are wrong, they
are none the less useful, until some more workable set of premises
comes around.
>> Thank you Chris for giving us such a quality view of how
>>you approach life and research.
>
>Anytime.
What's your game Chris?
Homer
John William Chambless
>>People who want to convince people that don't need help that they do need
>>help need help.
In article <rabid.308...@kibology.edu>,
Not So Jung <ra...@kibology.edu> wrote:
>Just exactly what personality type does it take to emit this?
>
One that hasn't been brain-wiped by high-tech science-fiction techniques?
What kind of personality does it take to randomly post from
forged addresses?
--
"The future posts on a.r.k via anonymous server have nothing to do with me,
so you can go to hell and leave me alone. na, na, na na, na" R. Bryner
"Andrew Beckwith pities you." 5150 to R. Bryner in a.r.k.
Harry Teasley III
: A "thetan" is scientologeze for "soul".
I thought it was that green-skinned salve chick that James Theodore Kirk
bonked on that fake Enterprise.
: I don't have personal experience with any of these
: things because I'm not a scientologist and I
: don't have a "thetan", "engrams", or "witholds".
The government is witholding all my engrams until I pay my back-thetans.
Harry "sig" Teasley
Chris Schafmeister
>In article <schaf.7...@cgl.ucsf.edu> sc...@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister) writes:
[text deleted]
>>It's poetry.
> It is established fact that people do not easily remember
>what happened to them while they were hurt or under anesthetic.
>That is irrefutable.
>
> It is also established fact that people can be coaxed into the
>painful memory releasing the resistence and charge built up in
>shutting the pain out, and thus recovering full analytical memory of
>the incident including when they were out cold.
> It is also established fact that many weird and bizarre symptoms
>vanish when this releasing process takes place.
>
Says you. You constantly go on about "this is an established fact",
"that is an established fact", without ever pointing to where
it was "established". You attempt to dress up your lofty statements
by painting them as "established fact" when they are nothing of the sort.
Your emperor's nipples are getting hard from the cold.
>>Nope, not in my dictionary it ain't.
>>"Thetans" are something that scientologists and clearing technologists
>>only think they are because they can't confront reality
>>and enjoy chasing fantasy.
> Well I have DEFINED thetan to MEAN conscious unit.
Well whoop-de-doo.
Your "definitions" are simply that.
You forgot to mention that you have attributed other
properties to "thetans" like immortality and super-duper
powers.
I I that I am concious and
I know that I don't have an immortal "thetan"
with lost "super-duper powers".
>
> Now perhaps conscious units don't exist. Perhaps they do
>but they are merely a functional result of underlying mechanical processes
>in the body. Maybe they are independent of the body.
>
> In any case anybody who is conscious is a thetan.
>
> This is true by definition so it can't be argued.
It ain't in Digital Webster so it ain't a word.
I'm arguing it. I don't accept your definition.
>
> What can be argued is if that CU is part of the body,
>or something that is independent of the body but merely temporarily
>resident in the body.
>
> Thus the 'existence' of the thetan can not be questioned unless
>you question the existence of consciousness. What can be questioned
>is the nature of that consciousness and its relation to the body.
>>> A conscious unit resides IN a body, but is not a body.
>>>
>>> Some conscious units like to pretend they are a body because
>>>they are in hiding from themselves.
>>
>>Some people like to think they have souls.
> Well not having one, you wouldn't know whether they did or not,
>so at least you should take a consitent point of view which is that
>you don't really know for absolute sure whether they do or not.
>
> Perhaps you dislike the idea that there are different kinds
>of people in the world, those that have sould and those that don't,
>but again that is merely personal prejudice and can't not in any way
>be demonstrated at this time with present technology.
I couldn't care less, I just want to watch you tie yourself
into knots trying to make up stories to explain how this can be so.
It's fun to watch you try and explain why I function as well as you do
yet I don't have a "thetan".
>>> They tend to pretend they are machines.
>>
>>They tend to pretend that they are proto-gods.
> They tend to hypothesize that they are proto-gods, which is
>a good word Chris. It follows from the prior idea that the world
>is a lucid or not so lucid dream.
You appear to be easily confused by words like "hypothesis",
"experiment", "proof", and "evidence". It's best if you stayed
away from powerful words like those.
>
> If the mechanism of existence is the external physical universe,
>then probably the idea of a proto-god is delusion.
>
> If the mechanism of existence is the internal projective source,
>then probably the idea of a proto-god is correct.
>>> Yes, this is vaguely correct. An overt is a contra survival
>>>action taken against another, either intentionally or accidentally.
>>>Overts are regretted.
>>
>>Hah! I'm HOT!
>>
>>I'm making this up as I go along and I'm still HOT!
> Well you have been reading this group for at least a year, and
>you have read every word of every posting I have ever made, and I have
>defined these words and concepts from top to bottom many times, so I
>figure that by now you are very well educated into the what all this
>stuff means. It is based on this thorough understanding of this
>subject that you base your counter arguements that it is all garbage
>right? You DO know what you are arguing against don't you?
Not a chance Homer, I don't read all your posts,
I don't have as much time as I used too.
I leave your long posts alone, it's just the same-old same-old.
>>>>"Auditing" is a process where a scientologist holds onto
>>>>the electrodes of a very expensive resistance meter
>>>>while another scientologist asks them stupid questions.
>>
>>> Stupid? Gratuitous contempt on your part Chris.
>>
>>Absolutely. I reserve the right to be petty and crass
>>when it suits my mood.
> Yes, but it ALWAYS suits your mood. You know Chris your position
>and attitude would not be tolerated for a moment in a formal symposium
>of professional medical doctors and healers. The entire medical world
>accepts the existence of emotinal and physical trauma and its effects
>on the body and the efficacy of cathartic therapy to remedy the
>resulting disorders of the body.
Ha!
>
> So how come you try to come across as knowing so much about this,
>and being so certain it is all gobbledy gook? Do you know something
>that the whole medical profession has missed?
All of the sudden your buds with the "medical community"?
Wow, that's a switch. When was the last time you vilified them
for ignoring Hubbard's contribution to "mental health"?
[text deleted]
James Kibo Parry
Chris Schafmeister <sc...@socrates.ucsf.edu> wrote:
>
> I never said anything about giving "engrams" to others.
> Although it's a great Christmas idea!
> I wonder if Kibo thought of that?
I hear you get a bulk discount if you buy them in lots of one thousand.
Look for big crates labeled "ONE KILOENGRAM".
-- K.
David Owens
I have a job right now in what is called the Los Feliz area of Los Angeles.
Sometimes at
lunch I go to New York George's, a sometimes hip, sometimes hippy little
restaurant on
Fountain Avenue, which just happens to be accross the street from the World
Headquarters of
Scientology. I like watching them walk around, most of them in some kind of
sailor suits. The
women, especially, are facinating. The have intense, purposefull expressions,
and stare me down
when I pass them by. They have a mission. I have known 2 people who were
Scientologists. One was
a woman in her early 40's, and the other was one of my working partners at a
construction site.
Each was very bright, but odd. Somehow, discovering that they had been
Scientologists explained
everything.
Chris Schafmeister
I'll bet they "stare you down",
they are becoming "gods" and we are just "bugs".
But it's pretty easy to "stare people down".
It's a cheap trick that cults use to
knock people off balance.
They act a little weird, you aren't sure how
to deal with them because you are used to people
acting normally and they use that uncertainty
to try and sell you something.
Stand your ground, if they can act weird then
don't worry about acting weird right back at them.
They can be knocked off balance just like anybody else.
Timothy Charles Lo Grasso
: Dear Chris
: sailor suits. The
: women, especially, are facinating. The have intense, purposefull expressions,
: and stare me down
: when I pass them by. They have a mission. I have known 2 people who were
: Scientologists. One was
: a woman in her early 40's, and the other was one of my working partners at a
: construction site.
: Each was very bright, but odd. Somehow, discovering that they had been
: Scientologists explained
: everything.
you putting down our religion because two people who you have met seemed odd to
you? Perhaps I am misinterpreting you, please clarify.
--
Tim Lograsso @ Washington University, St. Louis Mo
tc...@cec.wustl.edu
******************************************************************************
Communism: You have two cows. The government takes both of them and
gives you part of the milk.
Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives one to
your neighbor.
Fascism: You have two cows. The government takes both cows and sell you
the milk.
Nazism: You have two cows. The government takes both cows, then shoots you.
Bureaucracy: You have two cows. The government takes both of them,
shoots one, milks the other, then pours the milk down the drain.
Capitalism: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
******************************************************************************