[UPI] "Video game industry urged to police itself"
Carl M Kadie
Electronic Newspaper newsgroup clari.news.issues, et al. For more
info on ClariNet, write to in...@clarinet.com or phone 1-800-USE-NETS.
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 11:21:59 PST
WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., supported by
television's gentle ``Captain Kangaroo,'' said Wednesday the video game
industry is contributing to violence in America with its graphic
depictions of force and sex and warned it to regulate itself before the
federal government does.
``We're talking about video games that glorify violence and teach
children to enjoy inflicting the most gruesome forms of cruelty
imaginable,'' Lieberman said.
Lieberman, 51, the father of four children, said he will introduce
legislation calling on the video game industry to set up a uniform,
credible system to warn parents about the content of such games as
``Mortal Kombat'' and ``Night Trap.''
Shown at a news conference, ``Mortal Kombat'' involves a martial
contest with blood gushing from a fighter's head, and the winner
decapitating his opponent, then displaying the head attached to a spinal
cord. ``Night Trap'' involves hooded men seizing a sorority woman in her
nightgown and draining her blood.
Lieberman called on the video industry to draw ``a moral line,'' and
suggested a system involving ratings similar to those used for movies.
``I personally believe these violent videos are outrageous and
contribute to the unacceptable level of violence in our society,'' he
said. ``Personally, I wish the video game industry would stop making
them.''
Bob Keeshan, who holds 15 honorary degree for his work in behalf of
nurturing and educating children through such activities as ``Captain
Kangaroo,'' said profit is the reason violent video games are surging in
the market.
``The bottom line is driving this,'' he said. ``Violence is what we
in the industry call a 'grabber.'''
Lieberman and Keeshan said they are urging self-restraint, not
unconstitutional censorship, on the industry. Nintendo, which
manufactures ``Mortal Kombat,'' already has labeling in place warning
parents of graphic content of some games.
Game manufacturers should come up with an effective industry-wide
rating system wth uniformity within a year, Lieberman, said, or face
regulation by a government council.
``They should learn a lesson from the comic book business, which has
successfully kept graphic and bloody violence and explicit sex out of
their publications by adhering to an industry-wide code that prohibits
such scenes,'' Lieberman said.
Keeshan said his reaction to the violence and sex displayed in some
video games is ``disbelief,'' and that he is worried about the long-term
effect of the advanced technology on children.
``The danger arises when the subject of the software is of a violent
nature and the active participant is required to make decisions which
incite violence in order to win,'' he said. ``This is not a vicarious
experience but an active participation in violent acts.
``The lessons learned by a child as an active participant in
violence-oriented video games will be lessons the thinking parent would
shun like a plague.''
Lieberman said technology has changed toys from playthings to
instruments of gore and destruction.
``Cabbage Patch dolls never oozed blood and kids weren't taught to
rip off their heads, and tear out their hearts and spinal cords, as they
are in these video games,'' Lieberman said.
``Few parents would buy these games for their kids if they really
knew what was in them. There is no effective way for them to know what
every video game contains.
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= ka...@cs.uiuc.edu =
Seth Finkelstein
In article <CHDvu...@cs.uiuc.edu> ka...@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie) writes:
>Copyright 1993 by UPI. Reposted with permission from the ClariNet
>Electronic Newspaper newsgroup clari.news.issues, et al. For more
>info on ClariNet, write to in...@clarinet.com or phone 1-800-USE-NETS.
>
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 11:21:59 PST
>
> WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., supported by
> Game manufacturers should come up with an effective industry-wide
>rating system wth uniformity within a year, Lieberman, said, or face
>regulation by a government council.
> ``They should learn a lesson from the comic book business, which has
>successfully kept graphic and bloody violence and explicit sex out of
>their publications by adhering to an industry-wide code that prohibits
>such scenes,'' Lieberman said.
Aiiiii! There is indeed a lesson to be learned here - but it's
exactly the opposite of what Sen Lieberman thinks it is. That code
absolutely destroyed the creativity that was in the comics industry,
leading to massive repression that wasn't loosened at all for 15 years
(until 1969, when a major publisher defied them ONCE) and held
near-absolute sway for around 25 years (mid-eighties, when changing
marketing sapped some of its power). It's still a player today.
It didn't just cover violence and sex, but permissible
depictions of authorities (couldn't be corrupt), marriage (always shown
as a desirable state), and stories themselves (good must always triumph
over evil). There should be a copy on-line, it is an astounding
collection of censorship rules.
The moral of the story is LET the government implement the
censorship, don't do the job for it. Regulations can be overturned in
court challenges, a change of administration can remove them. But
self-censorship will be with you forever.
--
Seth Finkelstein se...@mit.edu
Disclaimer : I am not the Lorax. I speak only for myself.
(and certainly not for Project Athena, MIT, or anyone else).
John Payson
>Copyright 1993 by UPI. Reposted with permission from the ClariNet
>Electronic Newspaper newsgroup clari.news.issues, et al. For more
>info on ClariNet, write to in...@clarinet.com or phone 1-800-USE-NETS.
>
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 11:21:59 PST
>
> WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., supported by
>television's gentle ``Captain Kangaroo,'' said Wednesday the video game
>industry is contributing to violence in America with its graphic
>depictions of force and sex and warned it to regulate itself before the
>federal government does.
I wonder why parents can't figure out how to read game review magazines? I'm
sure there exist some pretty good ones which should give a pretty good clue
as to which games are violent? As for companies 'labeling' games, I expect
they probably will since, of course, everyone will go for the 'labeled' games
they're not supposed to have, so I don't see the point.
BTW, there was a thing on Fox News Chicago tonight about this subject, with
a soundbite of Keeshan. He sounds very sincere and gentile--doesn't seem
to have changed too much since he played Captain Kangaroo. Nice to see him
on TV again, even if I don't agree with his push for 'rating labels'.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
supe...@mcs.com | "Je crois que je ne vais jamais voir... | J\_/L
John Payson | Un animal si beau qu'un chat." | ( o o )
Wes Morgan
>successfully kept graphic and bloody violence and explicit sex out of
>their publications by adhering to an industry-wide code that prohibits
>such scenes,'' Lieberman said.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
_Heavy Metal_, anyone? That's a *mild* example of what can be found in
the typical comic store. If memory serves, there are now just as many
titles *ignorning* the CCA as there are adhering to it...
>``The danger arises when the subject of the software is of a violent
>nature and the active participant is required to make decisions which
>incite violence in order to win,'' he said. ``This is not a vicarious
>experience but an active participation in violent acts.
Did you ever notice that no one complained about "cute little Mario"
slamming things with a hammer, or "cute little Busby" stomping on
heads? Where would these people draw the line? If we are to believe
*all* of the censorial threads rampant in our society, there is no
difference between Mario violence and Mortal Kombat violence, right?
{ Compare and contrast the continuing complaints over violence in }
{ cartoons such as Bugs Bunny, Road Runner, and even Yogi Bear. }
{ If those are harmful, how can Mario differ? }
> ``Few parents would buy these games for their kids if they really
>knew what was in them. There is no effective way for them to know what
>every video game contains.
Horsepuckey.
I've seen at least one video store (over in Louisville, if memory serves;
I cannot recall the name) that allows buyers to "test drive" games in the
store before purchasing them. If the store has a demo system (and most of
them do), they can be convinced to allow you to test a game there.
The parents could also ask store staff or other parents. I can name over
a dozen friends, in my age group, with children, who own Nintendos or Segas;
I'm sure that at least one of them has seen Mortal Kombat.
I'd also suggest that parents could rent the games from their local video
outlet *before* purchasing them.
While I'm at it, why couldn't a group of concerned parents (or churches,
or psychologists, or whoever) simply prepare and distribute a ratings
sheet of their own? I'll bet that _Consumer Reports_ could be convinced
to do a video game issue...
Oops, there I go again, expecting the parents to do a little bit of
parenting work...someday I'll learn that folks like Lieberman want
nothing more than a completely sanitary, sugary-sweet environment in
which to dump their kids, instead of actually working with them.
--Wes
--
Wes Morgan - University of Kentucky - mor...@engr.uky.edu
Mailing list for AT&T StarServer E/S admins - starserve...@engr.uky.edu
GCS/E/MU d--- -p+ c++ l+ m* s++/++ !g w+ t+ r
gharshana-neti -- mental floss?
Scott Beeson
> ``They should learn a lesson from the comic book business, which has
>successfully kept graphic and bloody violence and explicit sex out of
>their publications by adhering to an industry-wide code that prohibits
>such scenes,'' Lieberman said.
What lesson?? Marvel and DC are the only ones that still print the
code on the covers. They even bend it a great deal, mainly by blurring
the line between good and evil. Heros can do bad thing for the greater
good, ie. Punisher. For other companies, there are no rules. For example
Dark Horse does Aliens, Predator, and other movie based lines that are
just as graphic and violent as the movies. The Comic's Code worked at
first, but it is not working today. I'm left wonder if the comic book
market now has such an adult readership, that nobody really cares now.
Later,
--
_______________________REV__________________________________
@ @ || I don't mince words, I just chop them. ||
< || r...@char.vnet.net ||
\___/ || bee...@rbdc.wsnc.org ||
Carl M Kadie
>>knew what was in them. There is no effective way for them to know what
>>every video game contains.
mor...@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:
>Horsepuckey.
>
>I've seen at least one video store (over in Louisville, if memory serves;
>I cannot recall the name) that allows buyers to "test drive" games in the
>store before purchasing them.
An article about Sega in this month's _Wired_ backs up what you say.
It says that at $50 a shot most people buy games only after trying
them.
I have (at least) three objections to the proposal:
1) I think it is an abuse of authority for the government to say:
censor yourself or we'll do it for you.
2) If the pro-labelers want to label stuff, I say go ahead, publish
a newsletter, but your labels on-line, etc. But don't expect
others to pay to create and publish your labels.
3) As the article shows, the real objective is not to inform parents
but to get games makers to suppress material.
- CArl
Daniel Garcia (system overlord)
I work at an Electronics Boutique (sp? it's late/early for me ;), but
I in no way speak for them. That being said, I can say that sega already
HAS a rating system on all their new games. They aren't changing what
they are selling, just putting warnings on the packages to give parents
an idea about what they're buying. It looks like they've been doing this
for a while now too.
D
--
|Dan Garcia,Ken...@esu.edu|If privacy is outlawed then only outlaws will have |
|#include <stdisclaimer.h>| privacy - Phil Zimmerman, author of PGP |
|Coram Deo|Death to Barney| This space for rent - mail ideas to me -- |
| GCS/MU d--() -p+ c++(c+) l++ u+ e+(*) m++(*) s !n h f+ !g w+ t++(--) r+ !y |
Gary McPherson
> Oops, there I go again, expecting the parents to do a little bit of
> parenting work...someday I'll learn that folks like Lieberman want
> nothing more than a completely sanitary, sugary-sweet environment in
> which to dump their kids, instead of actually working with them.
>
> --Wes
>
> --
> Wes Morgan - University of Kentucky - mor...@engr.uky.edu
> Mailing list for AT&T StarServer E/S admins - starserve...@engr.uky.edu
> GCS/E/MU d--- -p+ c++ l+ m* s++/++ !g w+ t+ r
> gharshana-neti -- mental floss?
I must agree. I think the video games do suck for the most part. Then again, I don't buy them
for my kids so it is no problem. If parents would be parents, grow up, get off their duffs, and
take care of their kids there would be no issue. Government is not our daddy, mommy, or big brother.
Neither should it ever become so. I find it ironic that people who have no time for their kids
have time to whine to their congressman about how terrible video games are. I wonder why
these so called upset parents buy the things to begin with. Anyone with 3 minutes could read the
box and look at the pictures on the back and figure out what kind of game it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My veiws are my own. I tried to give them to my employer, but he only laughed.
Paula Marie Bailey
>Copyright 1993 by UPI. Reposted with permission from the ClariNet
>Electronic Newspaper newsgroup clari.news.issues, et al. For more
>info on ClariNet, write to in...@clarinet.com or phone 1-800-USE-NETS.
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 11:21:59 PST
> WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., supported by
>television's gentle ``Captain Kangaroo,'' said Wednesday the video game
>industry is contributing to violence in America with its graphic
>depictions of force and sex and warned it to regulate itself before the
>federal government does.
(much deleted)
> ``They should learn a lesson from the comic book business, which has
>successfully kept graphic and bloody violence and explicit sex out of
>their publications by adhering to an industry-wide code that prohibits
>such scenes,'' Lieberman said.
Uhhh...Stateside only, folks. The Comic Book Code (the censorship rule
for comics) is followed closely by Big Four publishers
(DC/Marvel/Image/Valiant) in normal lines. However, indies, imports, and
the so-called "mature lines" (such as DC's Vertigo) generally don't
follow the guidelines.
This has had the effect of keeping original comic/graphic novel material
out of the hands of most people, as usually these are only available in
18-and-over sections of stores (if they HAVE one), or by mailorder
(again, age-restricted).
Because of the CBC, American's choices in mainstream comics are severely
limited. (Britain has one of the best mutant series around--_Strontium
Dogs_ in 2000 A.D.--but it is almost impossible to find, as it violates
nearly every rule set out in the Code.) It is not far-fetched to say the
same thing would happen to video games.
And as for the claim that labeling isn't censorship...try telling that to
the people who can't buy the latest Guns 'n' Roses or Metallica album
because the only two places in town won't carry labeled records. (And I
thought the issue of labels as indirect (and often direct) censorship had
been settled...)
>--
>Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
> = ka...@cs.uiuc.edu =
--
-Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
(Back in action after FAR too long... :)
ajo...@evax12.eng.fsu.edu
>
> I work at an Electronics Boutique (sp? it's late/early for me ;), but
> I in no way speak for them. That being said, I can say that sega already
> HAS a rating system on all their new games. They aren't changing what
> they are selling, just putting warnings on the packages to give parents
> an idea about what they're buying. It looks like they've been doing this
> for a while now too.
>
Senate isn't finding Sega's rating system sufficient. Senator Joseph
Lieberman, D-Conn., says that "creating a rating system is, frankly, the cery
least the video-game industry can do, not the best it can do."
A mother from Michigan asked, "How would you like for your teen-aged
daughter to go out with a boy who's just played three hours of these video
games?" (Mortal Kombat was mentioned by name in previous paragraphs). This
same woman also said that it was easier to find out "the contents of a Hostess
cupcake" than the contents of a video game.
I don't know about her, but I can pretty much figure out a video game
by looking at the screen shots on the back of the box. Around this time of
year, there are also several "buyer's guides" to virtually all the games
available. All you need to do is LOOK.
Hey, nobody ever said that raising a kid was going to be easy. With
the deadly nature of some of the things that kids can get involved with today,
providing them with guidance is especially crucial. At the same time, though,
there are those of us who can separate fantasy from reality.
I'm going to make a radical suggestion here, so you may want to sit
down for this one: Instead of trying to prevent EVERYONE from gaining access
to these materials, why not instead focus on those who have problems with it?
After all, I don't go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings; I'm not an alcoholic.
AJ
Jim Burnes
It appears that parents don't give a shit about violence. Why
worry about some fantasy martial arts violence when then government
burned 20 children alive in Waco. Not to mention the adults...
According to government sources burning children alive is a
necessary thing when someone might find out that they fucked up.
Anyone care to make a Waco Video game? The secret move is to
raid peoples homes, burn the occupants alive, not have any legal
precedent for doing so and getting away with it.
Serious mode on....
I wonder what would happen if some game programmers got together
and made a Waco video game where you win only if you save the
occupants.
Anyone?
--
Jim Burnes
Software Engineer
CompuSci, Inc.
jbu...@compusci.com
Peter Gluck
>I wonder what would happen if some game programmers got together
>and made a Waco video game where you win only if you save the
>occupants.
Jim ,
I think that the game would be more interesting if it was a psychological/
political game where the point would be to convince a bunch of people with
perfect hindsight that keeping a house ful of brainwashed lunatics with guns
and explosives from killing each other (while simultaneously obeying the law)
isn't as easy as some would imagine.
Peter
--
All the clouds turn to words | Peter Gluck
All the words float in sequence | CIS: 776066,1133
No one knows what they mean | sti...@panix.com
Everyone just ignores them. -ENO | pgl...@jyacc.com
Douglas E. Smith
> In article <2em0f0$b...@panix.com>, Peter Gluck
>(sti...@panix.com) writes: >I think that the game would be more
>interesting if it was a psychological/ >political game where the
>point would be to convince a bunch of people with >perfect
>hindsight that keeping a house ful of brainwashed lunatics with
>guns >and explosives from killing each other (while simultaneously
>obeying the law) >isn't as easy as some would imagine. >
<sig deleted>
Peter,
Those brainwashed lunatics were apparently bothering no one, had
fewer guns per capita than the average Texian, and have been
systematically smeared by the feds since the massacre. Where are
all those machine guns that Koresh was supposed to have had? Even
if they melted a bit, the evidence of their existance would have
still been there. Why have the feds not presented them?
Whatever their excentricities or misbehaviors, the assault, by
armed men with a very questionable warrent by the forces of the
BATF was an arrogant abuse of power. The BATF wanted to impress
the new administration with its abilities, and screwed up.
Waco and the Weaver murders are the most well know examples of the
brownshirts that have been doing federal law enforcement in the
past few years.
The Dark Mage
>I'd like to make a point here...
>It appears that parents don't give a shit about violence. Why
>worry about some fantasy martial arts violence when then government
>burned 20 children alive in Waco. Not to mention the adults...
>According to government sources burning children alive is a
>necessary thing when someone might find out that they fucked up.
>Anyone care to make a Waco Video game? The secret move is to
>raid peoples homes, burn the occupants alive, not have any legal
>precedent for doing so and getting away with it.
>Serious mode on....
>I wonder what would happen if some game programmers got together
>and made a Waco video game where you win only if you save the
>occupants.
...thereby foiling the feds, with the gov as the bad guys.... I like!
Anyone want to work on it with me? (I can write code, or do the grafix, or
brainstorm ideas... but if I try to do all at once i'll spontaneously
combust).
>Anyone?
Sure, sounds kew-ul... Now we just have to find someone to put it under
their label, package it, market it, and give us lots-o-$... (course, it
would _still_ be creator owned... Who's the iMAGE of software publishing,
these days? :)
-DarkMage
(only 1/2 kidding bout the game, btw... 'mail me if you want to do it... :)
>--
>Jim Burnes
>Software Engineer
>CompuSci, Inc.
>jbu...@compusci.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"But it's DEFINITE summat to tell yer GRANDCHILDREN,//Darkmage, BotL
eh, Master Redlaw? "Coincidentally, the werry same//silb...@acf4.nyu.edu
day I was popped into a cookpot, I discovered //Darkrose of the n.t.b.
Empusa's Inifinitely Extensible Chain, on a owl."-Master Levert, BoM#3
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----(@ DarkRose of the net.trenchcoat.brigade @)--'--,--'---
Vernon R Imrich
|> In <CHxr0...@csisun.uucp> jbu...@csisun.uucp (Jim Burnes) writes:
|>
|> >I wonder what would happen if some game programmers got together
|> >and made a Waco video game where you win only if you save the
|> >occupants.
|>
|> Jim ,
|>
|> I think that the game would be more interesting if it was a psychological/
|> political game where the point would be to convince a bunch of people with
|> perfect hindsight that keeping a house ful of brainwashed lunatics with guns
|> and explosives from killing each other (while simultaneously obeying the law)
|> isn't as easy as some would imagine.
|>
So then, I guess using internationally outlawed forms of tear gas, playing
loud music to keep people awake all night, and storming into a compound
filled with women and children would work if the people inside were SANE?
Go find a copy of an old 60 minutes on these kinds of tactics. Many
perfectly sane innocent people have been nearly killed because the
police had faulty tips from lying convicts and decided to "go in shooting"
rather than simply try knocking on the door.
Any game they make ought to give the police bonus points for using tactics
most likely to be put on the next episode of COPS. That's all these raids
are for anyway -- glorified prime time requests for more funding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Vernon Imrich |*. . .. . . . ** . .* ' . . '. . . |
| MIT OE, Rm 5-329b | You've just crossed over into; . * . ..|
| Cambridge, MA 02139 | . .* . THE . .. . . .* . . * |
| | . . .. . T W L I G H T . .. . . . * |
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Gluck
>Those brainwashed lunatics were apparently bothering no one, had
>fewer guns per capita than the average Texian, and have been
>systematically smeared by the feds since the massacre. Where are
>all those machine guns that Koresh was supposed to have had? Even
>if they melted a bit, the evidence of their existance would have
>still been there. Why have the feds not presented them?
>Whatever their excentricities or misbehaviors, the assault, by
>armed men with a very questionable warrent by the forces of the
>BATF was an arrogant abuse of power. The BATF wanted to impress
>the new administration with its abilities, and screwed up.
I completely agree with you about the origin of the incident - ie. the
"brownshirts" as you call them of BATF abusing their power and screwing up.
Nevertheless, once the FBI was involved and the Branch Davidians were
caught up in the standoff, I believe my original descrition of them was
correct. At this point, they certainly were a bunch of lunatics (or at least
following the orders of one) with weapons that they were firing, making
threats (and unleashing Koresh's messianic ultimatums) and certainly not
obeying the law. It of course ended in a way that confirmed this sort o
of description.
Jerry Stratton
>>hindsight that keeping a house ful of brainwashed lunatics with
>>guns >and explosives from killing each other (while simultaneously
>>obeying the law) >isn't as easy as some would imagine. >
>
>fewer guns per capita than the average Texian, and have been
>systematically smeared by the feds since the massacre. Where are
>all those machine guns that Koresh was supposed to have had? Even
>if they melted a bit, the evidence of their existance would have
>still been there. Why have the feds not presented them?
>
>brownshirts that have been doing federal law enforcement in the
>past few years.
Those folks who are familiar with the Beelzebub Comics FTP site on
teetot.acusd.edu can get more information about the wonderful folks in
the IRS' paramilitary division by popping over to
/pub/Beelzebub/Politics/The_Tax_Cops
Jerry Stratton
je...@teetot.acusd.edu (Finger/Reply for PGP Public Key)
------
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing
that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot
possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to
get at and repair."
--Douglas Adams
Jeff Kirvin
: [rec.arts.comics.misc added to newsgroups line, be careful with follow-ups]
I agree. When I first saw books like The Dark Knight and the Watchmen (both
from DC, believe it or not!) I was shocked and amazed that mature, intelligent
storytelling actually made it into print. If the government wants to
regulate the game industry, fine. Just don't stifle creativity in games for
those of us mature enough to deal with them.
--
______________________________________________________________________
Jeff Kirvin Proud member of Team OS/2!
lun...@asylum.hq.af.mil
Disclaimer: I do _not_ speak for the United States Air Force...