Princes etc.
mgre...@my-deja.com
A quick question-
Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title? the reason i ask is that
whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for whatever
reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the middle of
it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
AFAIK there is no quality control procedure for princes at all, at no
incentive to actually do anything other than 'promote the game in that
area', even if that area is about 4 square feet of Portsmouth. now
before you all start thinking 'yeah, rabble-rouser' ask yourself what is
to stop everyone on the group from being a prince? Actually- nothing. It
seems you can become prince of your house in order to gain access to the
prince-list. Hell's teeth, I think we must be getting to the stage where
over 50% of the group is princed up as it stands. And for what? Now
don't get me wrong- i'm not having a go at the princes who do a decent
job, or even Carl and Rob who do a good job at organising things. It
just seems to me that you stand to gain information and kudos with no
risk of accountability if you don't stand by the rules you are given to
enforce or act in a manner unbefitting of an official office in a public
forum.
Too. many. cooks.
matt, who realises that he is not the most subjective of posters on this
topic.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Noal McDonald
> //Apologies if this upsets anyone- not my intention.//
*takes note*
> A quick question-
> Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title? the reason i ask is
> that whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for
> whatever reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the
> middle of it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
First, I'd like to go on record as stating that this should have been
addressed on the Prince list itself.
Second, do you care to give some examples?
> AFAIK there is no quality control procedure for princes at all,
> at no incentive to actually do anything other than 'promote the
> game in that area',
Isn't that the whole point of a Prince? Promote the game and be a
contact point for players in that area?
Now before you consider "quality control" procedures. Consider the quote
that I use in my sig:
"What you cannot enforce, do not command."
-- Socrates
Meaning, that since there is no practical method to enforcing quality,
there is no point in mandating it.
> before you all start thinking 'yeah, rabble-rouser' ask yourself
> what is to stop everyone on the group from being a prince?
> Hell's teeth, I think we must be getting to the stage where
> over 50% of the group is princed up as it stands.
What group? The newsgroup?
I've got news for you. The regulars on the newsgroup is not the entirety
of the Jyhad following.
For example, the NJL is made up of at at least twelve playgroups (that I
can think of off the top of my head) and of those people, only four
people, including myself, post regularly in the newsgroup.
The reason is because most people aren't interested in the day-to-day
minutae of the events surrounding Jyhad. Most players just want to play
the game. It's up to the Princes to keep track of most of that stuff and
act as a spokesperson for their area. Which is why there's a high
percentage of the people that post regularly in the newsgroup are also
on the Prince mailing list.
> It just seems to me that you stand to gain information and kudos
Information? Most of the stuff discussed there has not been of a
confidential nature.
Kudos? What kind of kudos?
> with no risk of accountability if you don't stand by the rules you
> are given to enforce or act
Is this a reference to the way the Quebec tournament was run or is it a
reference to NJL rules team members being on the list?
If it was the former, I'd say he's been browbeaten enough and I'm sure
that he will endeavor to run an official tournament the correct way next
time.
If it's the latter, I've got more news for you. One of the guys on the
NJL rules team actually manages the list. Take a look at the address,
"concl...@mich.com". You didn't think that the "mich.com" was a
coincidence, did you? If that bothers you, please take note that both
Raille (the aforementiond NJL guy) and I have been advocating a merging
of the two groups and have been working with LSJ to bridge gaps towards
bringing that about.
> in a manner unbefitting of an official office in a public forum.
Huh? When has this happened?
> Too. many. cooks.
Relax. It's a huge pot that holds the stew.
The way I look at it, the more people that feel like they're personally
involved, the more people that will enthusiastically support the game.
And to quote Martha Stewart, "That's a good thing."
Regards,
Noal McDonald
--
"What you cannot enforce, do not command."
-- Socrates
Stubby
support the game. I know I normally point out what was going on and
keep an eye on things but i'm only a very small cog and don't know all
the rules. I also don't fancy being the wrong end of abuse. as for
portsmouth: the totalallity of the situation wasn't realised till
after the event.
I do realise that soem princes do nothing and try to get glory for
nothing. and some of us actually work quite hard at ensureing VtES
gets a good deal. as for interfering in an another prince's area - I
don't do that. John has only been made aware this week of his
princedom (to my knowledge) and he does a bloody good job.
I agree there needs to be a system of kicking out dead princes but who
justifies it? Carl - who doesn't get to the UK often? a justicar for
the UK or for the states etc.... what grounds do you put down for
expelling a prince? What about an appeal system... how complicated do
you want it?
currently there is no national meeting of princes in the UK (don't
know about the states) in order to try to regulate the community of
players in the UK. some of us put a lot of time, effort and money into
getting things done. also what you must remeber is that some
information is only given to princes and they only certain stuff from
sponsors. that means people like john (who puts a lot of work in) gets
left out of information becuase he wasn't a prince. as for me - i got
mine so that i could help do gencon uk and sort out the irish conflict
aswell as have the WW & VKEN backup for the work that I do.
as for tournements - IMO the judge has final say and then its up to
the prince in each area to talk to players involved. ie the prince of
london should deal with certain situations becuase it envolves players
in his area even though he wasn't at the event.
just my opinion.
anam
Prince of petersfield
Khaleph Alendis
vt...@netcomuk.co.uk (Stubby) wrote:
>
> I agree there needs to be a system of kicking out dead princes but who
> justifies it? Carl - who doesn't get to the UK often? a justicar for
> the UK or for the states etc.... what grounds do you put down for
> expelling a prince? What about an appeal system... how complicated do
> you want it?
I’am wrong or Carl kick the princes that dont respond to his message
for an amonth of time ? Somewhere in the darkest part of my brain,
there is something that said to me that it was done some month ago.
But i suppose that’s not what we speak of here. I suppose that you
speak about those who have the title of prince but do nothing…
I dont know if we must realy do that. Expelling someone because player
from other country think they do nothing is not a good idea at my point
of view. Because a prince can do thing that we can not view from
distance.
Exemple :
-Make publicity about the rules and all informations about VTES. (not
all player have internet)
-Meet regulary to play at a gaming store (That make publicity for the
game because that’s show that the game is not dead…)
-Organising demo game
etc.
Maybe if a group of player think that a prince dont do his job and they
want him replaced by another, more… alive ? They are in the city, they
most know more if a prince work for VTES than someone outside the city.
But that's can lead to Praxis Seizure in city where different groupe of
players want there friend to have the title. I know, this is just a
game, but if we can see something in other gaming organisation, why not
here...
> currently there is no national meeting of princes in the UK (don't
> know about the states) in order to try to regulate the community of
> players in the UK.
The princes of the Quebec province stay in contact and try to plan the
tournament in a way that no tournament are in conflict and so, that the
maximum of players can go to all activities. But maybe i dont
understand what you meen by «regulate the community».
--
Khaleph Alendis, High Priest of Maizerets
VEKN Setite Prince of Beauport
http://cdd.citeweb.net/khaleph/
Lord Darksword
I happen to be one of the "armchair" princes (those of us who both
work and go to school and have a family know about this, I think) in
that to this point I have dealt with the responsibilities of the post
by computer/phone so far. I have my flier designed out and I have a
number of local retailers aware of the re-release from my calls. And
those same retailers who have said they would carry product are also
given a bit of free advertising on same flier...
My 2 right hand Primogen work with me well. One is more mobile, the
other knowledgable.
I asked for a Princedom to be able to keep those in my group and others
we know informed. We now can bug the stores for our favorite game ahead
of time because I get the information to let them know to do so.
Anything else is just a side benefit to me. As grateful I may be to WW
for the planned support and promotional items to be sent, I would still
try to get new people to my group even if they weren't promised.
Yet...I still feel I'm not doing enough. I can only do what I can with
the time I have to devote to it. I"m sure a few of the Princes feel the
same.
Lord Darksword
Prince of Reno
--
"The bittersweet Caress of a chill Eternity
blazens my sword with dark flames of retribution."
Andrew S. Davidson
>Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title? the reason i ask is that
>whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for whatever
>reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the middle of
>it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
How do vampires become princes in the WoD universe? Is it a matter of
votes, fighting or birthright? One might imitate these methods, if
there is competition.
I sometimes hold my tournaments in the meeting room of the local
chapter of the Royal Antedilvian Order or Buffalos. I'm not sure what
they do exactly, but it seems to be largely a matter of giving each
other grand titles (and drinking beer, I'll wager). Given that this
is an end in itself, why not use the other titles from the game too?
You might award the title Primogen to a player with a rating above a
certain threshold. You might award the title Justicar to a qualified
judge. Are there any other titles?
Andrew
Watcher of West Ealing
Khaleph Alendis, Prince of Beauport
wrote:
>You might award the title Primogen to a player with a rating above a
>certain threshold. You might award the title Justicar to a qualified
>judge. Are there any other titles?
The title of Primogen is already in use. It's for the players that
help the Prince to do his work.
Bye,
Khaleph.
Derek Ray
wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:48:47 GMT, mgre...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title? the reason i ask is that
>>whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for whatever
>>reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the middle of
>>it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
>
>How do vampires become princes in the WoD universe? Is it a matter of
>votes, fighting or birthright? One might imitate these methods, if
>there is competition.
One normally becomes a prince by a form of voting - enough people
provide their influence, in one form or another, and a Prince is
acclaimed for that city - which is then his domain. The Praxis
Seizure vote card parallels this.
I'd hesitate to encourage "voting" in cities, if only because it tends
to become a popularity contest then, instead of which person is
actually willing to do the work. So far for VEKN, it's mostly been
whichever person in a certain city wants to step up and handle player
relations/etc talks to the VEKN organizers, who update records and
public information accordingly - and direct people in the city to that
Prince for VTES information. I don't know that there have been any
conflicts yet, but this thread's existence suggests that perhaps there
are - although I am surprised, considering the game's recent rebirth,
that people might be willing to jockey for nonexistent public acclaim
instead of work towards getting the game "back".
>I sometimes hold my tournaments in the meeting room of the local
>chapter of the Royal Antedilvian Order or Buffalos. I'm not sure what
>they do exactly, but it seems to be largely a matter of giving each
>other grand titles (and drinking beer, I'll wager). Given that this
This is much what my impression was of the VEKN's current structure,
although the Princes actually have some responsibility and do a good
deal of promoting in their cities - so a notch better than the Water
Buffalo. ;) My experience at DragonCon confirms that yes, it DOES
involve drinking a lot of beer.
Which reminds me - someone should declare that hotel bar Elysium. =)
>is an end in itself, why not use the other titles from the game too?
>You might award the title Primogen to a player with a rating above a
>certain threshold. You might award the title Justicar to a qualified
>judge. Are there any other titles?
Well, Justicar involves being the head of a certain clan. Since there
are only seven Camarilla clans and everyone has their favourite, it
might be a bad idea to be tossing out THAT particular title randomly.
=) But as Jeffrey Moore has shown us all, how do you stop someone
from claiming themselves as XXXX when they're not doing anything
productive, and confusing the issue of who really is XXXX? Maybe in
the VEKN registry it won't show up, but ...? I've seen a lot of
self-imposed titles float around, most of which are
appropriate/amusing. The primary criteria seems to be a certain
degree of originality and locality just so's nobody laughs you silly.
=) It works fairly well so far, much along the lines of the Water
Buffalo thing. =)
Derek
Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta
Raille
> I’am wrong or Carl kick the princes that dont respond to his message
> for an amonth of time ? Somewhere in the darkest part of my brain,
> there is something that said to me that it was done some month ago.
>
As list Master, I have kicked people off the list when they start
bouncing to many emails. On a busy day, I will get 30 list notes and
each list note to a bad email address comes back to me, so thats a quick
60 messages.
If some of has been dropped from the prince listm they simply need to
contact carl with a good email address.
David McCarty
Prince of South Haven
legb...@my-deja.com
> Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title?
Carl can do this, and presumably he would consult with White Wolf etc if
the reason for doing it was other than the soi-disant Prince going into
an e-coma.
the reason i ask is that
> whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for whatever
> reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the middle of
> it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
i don't think that's COMPLETELY fair. One spectacular close-to-home
example of ill-feeling that springs to mind has nothing to do with the
activities of any Prince. But i know what you mean.
>
> AFAIK there is no quality control procedure for princes at all,
Correct.
at no
> incentive to actually do anything other than 'promote the game in that
> area', even if that area is about 4 square feet of Portsmouth. now
> before you all start thinking 'yeah, rabble-rouser' ask yourself what is
> to stop everyone on the group from being a prince? Actually- nothing.
Except that you have to be able to make up the name of a city to be
Prince of.
It
> seems you can become prince of your house in order to gain access to the
> prince-list. Hell's teeth, I think we must be getting to the stage where
> over 50% of the group is princed up as it stands. And for what? Now
> don't get me wrong- i'm not having a go at the princes who do a decent
> job, or even Carl and Rob who do a good job at organising things. It
> just seems to me that you stand to gain information and kudos with no
> risk of accountability if you don't stand by the rules you are given to
> enforce or act in a manner unbefitting of an official office in a public
> forum.
>
> Too. many. cooks.
>
> matt, who realises that he is not the most subjective of posters on this
> topic.
>
Good post, matt, and thanks for raising the topic. This is something
which troubles me, too. When i joined the Prince list it was basically a
fan club and the fact that nobody had voted for anybody in it wasn't a
problem. Now it is the Official player organisation. i'm not sure i'm
qualified to be an official and i'm ABSOLUTELY sure that no-one voted for
me to be one, and nor did i pass any exam to become one. However, i see
why things have developed the way they have - top priority has to be to
spread the glad tidings as far afield as possible. i'd plead for a little
extra humility from the Princes [we are only self-appointed and have no
real claim ex officio to be either exceptional players or genuinely
powerful] and point out that such problems as are traceable to the
activities of Princes are IMO minor and spring from over-enthusiasm in
the Great Cause.
However, i can see that Princes have caused trouble and i think there's
the potential for things to get worse. i'd encourage players who are
unhappy with their prince to write to carl about it, and i'd encourage
carl then to seek a response from the prince and to provide all
interested parties with a ruling, which could well include expulsion from
the Princes list.
BTW for Noal, matt is not a Prince AFAIK so could not post to the Princes
list. And i personally think that even if he WAS a Prince this is the
kind of thing which needs to be said openly - i REALLY hate self-
appointed elites.
mgre...@my-deja.com
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> mgre...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > //Apologies if this upsets anyone- not my intention.//
>
>
Thanks for the measured response Noal.
> > A quick question-
> > Can a V:EKN Prince ever lose his or her title? the reason i ask is
> > that whenever there seems to be any ill-feeling on the group for
> > whatever reason, there seems to be one of the V:EKN princes in the
> > middle of it- doing precisely nothing for the state of the game.
>
> First, I'd like to go on record as stating that this should have been
> addressed on the Prince list itself.
>
As James points out further down the thread- i am not a Prince
therefore...
> Second, do you care to give some examples?
>
No, i'll leave that up to you to go through the history and pick any
thread that involves shouting or personnal insults.
> > AFAIK there is no quality control procedure for princes at all,
> > at no incentive to actually do anything other than 'promote the
> > game in that area',
>
> Isn't that the whole point of a Prince? Promote the game and be a
> contact point for players in that area?
>
Yes, but shouldn't people promote the game anyway? As for acting as a
contact point, sure but the point was that, in theory at least, this is
marginal as anyone can become a prince and circumvent the entire
process. Yes, the princes have a valid function. For sure, we need them
but we don't need this many and the ones we have are never going to lose
the position unless they decide they want to lose it.
> Now before you consider "quality control" procedures. Consider the
quote
> that I use in my sig:
>
> "What you cannot enforce, do not command."
> -- Socrates
>
By the same token, if we can not enforce quality should we settle for
incompetance?
<snip all the example stuff they I probably shouldn't have put up
anyway>
You get my point now though right? It's not that I have a problem with
any individual prince- just with the system that installs them seemingly
at will. Read Legbiters post further down- he puts it much better than i
could ever do. :)
>
> > Too. many. cooks.
>
> Relax. It's a huge pot that holds the stew.
>
> The way I look at it, the more people that feel like they're
personally
> involved, the more people that will enthusiastically support the game.
>
> And to quote Martha Stewart, "That's a good thing."
>
Totally agree on all points but there should be a system in place that
deters people from being 'over enthusiastic' at times. Thats all.
> Regards,
> Noal McDonald
> --
> "What you cannot enforce, do not command."
> -- Socrates
>
cheers,
matt.
Mike Nudd
>currently there is no national meeting of princes in the UK (don't
>know about the states) in order to try to regulate the community of
>players in the UK.
Is 'regulate' really the right word though? I was under the impression
that the VEKN is predominately a fan-club, made up of volunteers who
have agreed to promote the game. Yes, that means advocating the ruling
and errata, and yes that also means advocating fair play. However,
although VEKN reps may have the final say in the tournament
environment, we can't really enforce things on a larger scale...
> some of us put a lot of time, effort and money into
>getting things done. also what you must remeber is that some
>information is only given to princes and they only certain stuff from
>sponsors. that means people like john (who puts a lot of work in) gets
>left out of information becuase he wasn't a prince.
I am under the impression that this was historic issue, which has
recently been rectified. I would quite agree that he has done more
work than anyone to promote play in the UK. Is there any way we can
honour what he's done?
>as for me - i got
>mine so that i could help do gencon uk and sort out the irish conflict
>aswell as have the WW & VKEN backup for the work that I do.
Obviously being a Prince allows for sanctioning of tournaments, prize
support etc.
For my own part, I took on the role simply because it was vacant. It
was clear that there were players in London, and no-one was drawing
them together. I will quite happily admit that my time is limited, and
that more recently I have had no luck organising any official
tournements, but I am still keen to see the game played, and we do
meet regularly in both London and Essex to play many a friendly game.
I will be helping with GenCon UK this year, and my web-site is serving
to provide information to UK players. Word of mouth is a slow process,
but more players are slowly creeping out of the woodwork...
Personally I feel that I will be much better armed to promote the game
when it is back on the shelves to buy in October/November. I am
certainly making some plans for this time...
>as for tournements - IMO the judge has final say and then its up to
>the prince in each area to talk to players involved. ie the prince of
>london should deal with certain situations becuase it envolves players
>in his area even though he wasn't at the event.
In regards to Sid and Barney, I have heard both side of the story, and
I will quite agree that both of them could have been better behaved at
the last Second Byte tournament, and I have said as much to each of
them. It is questionable as to whether I am in a position to 'caution'
or 'police' them any further, and I would rather not try, considering
I did not witness these events first hand. Obviously people will be
keeping a close eye on the two of them should they attend the next few
local tournaments - that really goes without saying. Their reputations
have certainly been tarnished anyway...
Mike Nudd
VEKN Prince of London
mi...@vekn.org.uk
http://www.vtes.org/
Deviant One
>Which reminds me - someone should declare that hotel bar Elysium. =)
>
The Pontifex of New Jersey seconds the motion :-)
Eric Nawrotzki
Pontifex of New Jersey
"Live Now. Make Now the most precious time. Now will never come again."
Noal McDonald
> Thanks for the measured response Noal.
Not a problem. I'm not always a condescending S.O.B. *grin*
(Although usually, I only get that way out of exasperation.)
>> First, I'd like to go on record as stating that this should
>> have been addressed on the Prince list itself.
>
> As James points out further down the thread- i am not a Prince
> therefore...
Ah. Didn't know that as I really don't pay attention to who's a Prince
and who's not. Thought you were considering the topic. Besides, James
and Legbiter posted well after I did.
>> Second, do you care to give some examples?
>
> No, i'll leave that up to you to go through the history and
> pick any thread that involves shouting or personnal insults.
Actually, I finally decided to accept the Prince title about a month and
half ago. I was concerned about a conflict of interest...but since I was
already an advocate of merging the two groups, the point was becoming
moot.
Anyway...what I was going to say was that in a month and a half, I've
not seen any disrespectful behavior on the Prince list at all. The
newsgroup is an entirely different matter. I can see your concern that
if a conversation becomes a flame war here, that the involved parties
not use their official titles.
>> Isn't that the whole point of a Prince? Promote the game and be a
>> contact point for players in that area?
>
> Yes, but shouldn't people promote the game anyway?
Actively? Most people don't have the time nor inclination for that.
That's why you have Princes.
> As for acting as a contact point, sure but the point was that, in
> theory at least, this is marginal as anyone can become a prince
> and circumvent the entire process.
I'm not sure what you mean by, "circumvent the entire process."
What would people stand to gain by being a Prince in name only? (Not to
mention in practice, for that matter. Being truly involved with your
community takes a lot of work and headaches.) It's not like being a
Prince carries any real prestige in the community. Hell, I was calling
myself "The Great Googily Moogily" when the Prince thing originally
started because I thought the titles were goofy.
> For sure, we need them but we don't need this many
In theory, you can have one Prince per city. Granted that's a lot of
Princes. OTOH, in effect, I'm the Prince of southeastern Michigan and
Raille is the Prince of southwestern Michigan. That's because the
Detroit area cities run together so much that a Prince of Canton and a
Prince of Westland would be utterly pointless...and Raille's side of the
state is so sparsely populated that a Prince of a particular city would
only have a 2-3 players at most, making it also pointless. Whether
other geographical regions need a prince for each city entirely depends
on the area, I would think.
> and the ones we have are never going to lose the
> position unless they decide they want to lose it.
That's probably true. However, that's not going to be as bad as you
think if players realize that no real prestige exists for just being a
Prince. (if you think you're important, tell your grocer why. if he's
impressed, than ok.) The prestige only comes from busting your ass,
getting involved and earning respect.
> By the same token, if we can not enforce quality should
> we settle for incompetance?
No. But I'm at a loss how we can effectively weed it out.
> You get my point now though right? It's not that I have a
> problem with any individual prince- just with the system
> that installs them seemingly at will.
Well, Carl does ask some questions, but that doesn't prevent people from
lying. I'm still under the (possibly false) hope that if people realize
just calling yourself a Prince doesn't make you important, a lot of the
dead weight won't bother.
> Read Legbiters post further down- he puts it much better than i
> could ever do. :)
I can see that. Surely a level head is always best. I'm just not sure
how one can deal with "over-enthusiasm" or immaturity in an objective,
appropriate and enforceable manner.
(btw, Legbiter, my desire to keep this on the Prince list had nothing to
do with elitism, but rather a concern with airing dirty laundry publicly
at a time when we can not afford bad p.r.)
> Totally agree on all points but there should be a system in
> place that deters people from being 'over enthusiastic' at
> times. Thats all.
I would suggest social engineering, myself. Sometimes, you catch flies
with honey. Sometimes, you have to catch them with a hammer.
Regards,
Noal
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
Chris Shorb
[snip]
as for me - i got
> mine so that i could help do gencon uk and sort out the irish conflict
>
Getting the Constabulary and the Republicans talking must be very tough
work, and helping out w/Gencon too? ;-)
[snip]
--
chris
ultimate disc - V:TES - hockey
v:ekn prince of torrance, ca
Stubby
>Getting the Constabulary and the Republicans talking must be very tough
>work, and helping out w/Gencon too? ;-)
>
start. its a bit frustrating to be the one a lot of the irish players
go to for information when I live in a different country!! There
hasn't been a tournement there for at least three years (since I
organised the last one) and there isn't even a regular meet (pub
crawl) set up for players to attend.
as for GenCon UK.... well see further posting.
many regards,
Anam
btw: its not the constabulary you have to get talking its the
Loyalists and republicans. please note the 12th is coming up soon.
legb...@my-deja.com
>
> >> First, I'd like to go on record as stating that this should
> >> have been addressed on the Prince list itself.
> >
> > As James points out further down the thread- i am not a Prince
> > therefore...
>
> Ah. Didn't know that as I really don't pay attention to who's a Prince
> and who's not. Thought you were considering the topic. Besides, James
> and Legbiter posted well after I did.
And are, in this case, the same person.
Understood, but i still think that matt's post needed to be made. i think
the danger area will come when/if Princes piss off their own players.
This could bugger up the game's revival locally.
> > Totally agree on all points but there should be a system in
> > place that deters people from being 'over enthusiastic' at
> > times. Thats all.
>
> I would suggest social engineering, myself. Sometimes, you catch flies
> with honey. Sometimes, you have to catch them with a hammer.
>
> Regards,
> Noal
> --
How about copying an idea from the Pokemon league, where your rating is a
combination of how much you play, how much you win, and how much you help
the gym leader? Princes would then get "artificially" high ratings based
on their social work. Better players could then trounce them and improve
THEIR ratings.
Noal McDonald
>> Ah. Didn't know that as I really don't pay attention to who's a
>> Prince and who's not. Thought you were considering the topic.
>> Besides, James and Legbiter posted well after I did.
>
> And are, in this case, the same person.
Nope. James Coupe also posted and mentioned that Matt wasn't a prince.
> Understood, but i still think that matt's post needed to be made.
> i think the danger area will come when/if Princes piss off their
> own players. This could bugger up the game's revival locally.
True. But how would we police that? Ask for feedback from their
players regarding their performance? That would take a lot of work and I
imagine Carl would like to continue to have a life outside Jyhad.
Regards,
Noal
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
legb...@my-deja.com
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> Ah. Didn't know that as I really don't pay attention to who's a
> >> Prince and who's not. Thought you were considering the topic.
> >> Besides, James and Legbiter posted well after I did.
> >
> > And are, in this case, the same person.
>
> Nope. James Coupe also posted and mentioned that Matt wasn't a prince.
Alright, sorry. That message isn't coming up for me at least in this
thread. Sorry if i seem oversensitive, but James C [for those who don't
know] is the Hated Coupe, Beneath Whose Iron heel the Kindred of Central
England Nightly Groan. i am aka james m, and am WAAAAY cuter than my
illustrious Brother of Mercia.
>
> > Understood, but i still think that matt's post needed to be made.
> > i think the danger area will come when/if Princes piss off their
> > own players. This could bugger up the game's revival locally.
>
> True. But how would we police that? Ask for feedback from their
> players regarding their performance? That would take a lot of work and I
> imagine Carl would like to continue to have a life outside Jyhad.
>
> Regards,
> Noal
> --
Well, as you said in your original response to matthew i don't think we
CAN police it. But offering princes incentives for doing what they ought
to be doing IS possible - adapting the Pokemon rating system would be
fairly easy, for example by giving princes a small boost of a point or so
to their rating for stuff they did that was good, and one could also
conceive of disincentives to people making total choles of themselves and
the game - just pointing out that if people locally ARE unhappy with
their Prince they can complain would be enough, i think, and might even
leave carl with the odd minute or so every fortnight to snatch a bite to
eat. Social engineering sums up the process admirably, i think.
James Coupe
deja.com> writes
>Nope. James Coupe also posted and mentioned that Matt wasn't a prince.
I did? I can't remember when.....
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.zephyr.org.uk
Noal McDonald
>> Nope. James Coupe also posted and mentioned that Matt
>> wasn't a prince.
>
> I did? I can't remember when.....
I thought you had. I gotta start laying off the crack.
(When I made the above assertion, Deja was going through one of its
regularly scheduled f**k ups and I couldn't verify it.)
Btw., four hours until I hit the road and drive to Origins. It's about a
3-3.5 hour drive for me. I assume Peter and co. are already on their
way. I take it that you're not going to make it out, James? You going to
GenCon U.S. this year?
Regards,
Noal
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
James Coupe
deja.com> writes
>I take it that you're not going to make it out, James? You going to
>GenCon U.S. this year?
Unfortunately not. I may end up spending most of August in lovely
Aberystwyth (that's in Wales, for the non-clued up on UK geography).
James Coupe
>i am aka james m, and am WAAAAY cuter than my
>illustrious Brother of Mercia.
I second that emotion.
Oaflord
Thomas Kuster
V:EKN Prince of Caledon
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the world, and all our woe."
John Milton Paradise Lost. Book i. Line 1.
James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:O5xAmVAY...@obeah.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8ki7m7$p0n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dharzhak@my-
> deja.com> writes
> >I take it that you're not going to make it out, James? You going to
> >GenCon U.S. this year?
>
> Unfortunately not. I may end up spending most of August in lovely
> Aberystwyth (that's in Wales, for the non-clued up on UK geography).
>
Oaflord
Canada this September...ROFLMAO
Thomas Kuster
V:EKN Prince of Caledon
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the world, and all our woe."
John Milton Paradise Lost. Book i. Line 1.
James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:DJrDKjAz...@obeah.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8ki581$mni$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com writes
> >i am aka james m, and am WAAAAY cuter than my
> >illustrious Brother of Mercia.
>
> I second that emotion.
>
R. David Zopf
Oaflord wrote in message <2z2b5.7332$_J1.6...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
>I actually knew that, but how do you pronounce such a monstrosity? ;-)
>
>> Unfortunately not. I may end up spending most of August in lovely
>> Aberystwyth (that's in Wales, for the non-clued up on UK geography).
>>
an Aberystwythite?
an Aberystwythian?
an Aberystwit?
;-) Guess it depends on whether they play weenie tap-n-bleed, or not...
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC
legb...@my-deja.com
"R. David Zopf" <guenh...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Oaflord wrote in message <2z2b5.7332$_J1.6...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> >I actually knew that, but how do you pronounce such a monstrosity? ;-)
i can help with the pronunciation, which is such as to make the following
limerick rhyme properly:
A Boy and Girl of Aberystwyth
Made Love with the things that they kissed with
But as they grew older
They also grew bolder
And made love with the things that they p*****d with.
> >
> snip
> >> Unfortunately not. I may end up spending most of August in lovely
> >> Aberystwyth (that's in Wales, for the non-clued up on UK geography).
> >>
> What would you call a person from that locale?
> an Aberystwythite?
> an Aberystwythian?
> an Aberystwit?
>
> ;-) Guess it depends on whether they play weenie tap-n-bleed, or not...
>
> Regards,
> R. David Zopf
> Atom Weaver
> V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC
>
Pass on that one.
mgre...@my-deja.com
"R. David Zopf" <guenh...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Oaflord wrote in message
<2z2b5.7332$_J1.6...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> What would you call a person from that locale?
Welsh.
Derek Ray
>i can help with the pronunciation, which is such as to make the following
>limerick rhyme properly:
>
>A Boy and Girl of Aberystwyth
>Made Love with the things that they kissed with
>But as they grew older
>They also grew bolder
>And made love with the things that they p*****d with.
i believe that your poetic license must be officially revoked.
although now i can pronounce "Aberystwyth", for what that's worth.