FAQ: Very Frequently Asked Questions (with answers)
Dave Pearson
$Revision: 1.15 $
In no particular order, here are some of the questions that are most
frequently asked in comp.lang.clipper. In many cases the comp.lang.clipper
FAQ or Deja <URL:http://www.deja.com/usenet/> would have helped you find the
answer. Where possible the URL that points to those resources is given as
the answer.
DISCLAIMER: The content of this document is simply a compilation of answers
pulled from other sources and other people. No link in this document should
be seen as an endorsement, by me, of any product or service that it might
point at. Only follow links in this document if you understand and accept
that I am in no way responsible for any outcome resulting from your use of
this resource.
If that isn't clear, try this: I am not responsible for your actions, you
are. If you can't assume responsibility for your own actions you should stop
reading this document right now.
[In case you're wondering why such a disclaimer is required: I've had
someone try and suggest that his failure to make use of a copy of a
decompiler he'd purchased (twice!) and the failure of a web based
decompilation service to deliver the goods after he'd paid them means that
I'm in some way responsible because he found the link in this document.]
* Where is the comp.lang.clipper FAQ?
<URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/FAQ/>
<URL:http://www.the-oasis.net/clipper.html>
* What is "Internal Error 8002" and how do I stop it?
FAQ:
<URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/FAQ/clipper-5.html#ss5.8>.
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=MS&QRY=8002+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
* What is runtime error R6003?
FAQ:
<URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/FAQ/clipper-5.html#ss5.7>
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=r6003+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&ST=MS&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
Update (FAQ requires updating with this information):
<URL:ftp://ftp.ca.com/pub/clipper/tools3.zip> fixes the problem.
* How do I set FILES= in Windows 2000/NT?
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=QS&QRY=windows+2000+files%3D+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
Short answer:
What you used to know as CONFIG.SYS is now C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\CONFIG.NT.
What you used to know as AUTOEXEC.BAT is now
C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\AUTOEXEC.NT.
* How do I set FILES= in Windows ME?
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=QS&QRY=windows+ME+files%3D+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
Short answer:
Add "PerVMFiles=<value>" to section [386enh] of SYSTEM.INI where the
maximum setting for <value> is 225. You can find out more about this at
<URL:http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q269/0/30.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=gn&FR=0>.
* I want to move to Windows, what should I use?
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=QS&QRY=from+clipper+windows+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
Short answer:
If you ask this question you'll get more answers than you can probably
cope with. Have a good read of past threads on this subject on Deja.
* My application is hogging the CPU, what can I do?
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=MS&QRY=cpu+hog+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
Short answer:
Get OSLib <URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/#OSLib> and look
at OL_Yield() <URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/OSLib/ng318e.html> and
OL_AutoYield() <URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/OSLib/ngcf3.html>.
Short answer:
Grab MULTI102.ZIP <URL:http://www.the-oasis.net/files/general/multi102.zip>.
* Where can I get a free copy of <insert non-free product here>?
Short answer:
Probably from your local software distributor. If that isn't the answer
you were looking for please don't use the newsgroup to request that people
ignore software licences.
* I've lost my source code, how can I get it back?
Short answer:
Use a decompiler like Valkyrie <URL:http://www.terminal-impact.com/>. If
you don't want to purchase a decompiler for a single decompile you might
want to try Neil Kingsley of MythoLogics <URL:http://www.mythologics.com/>
or Ross McKenzie of ValuSoft <URL:mailto:valu...@mbox.com.au>.
You might also want to keep an eye out for a product called Rescue5. No
current contact details are known so you're on your own regarding locating
a copy.
Update:
It seems that <URL:http://www.terminal-impact.com/> has fallen off the
net. Take a look at "I need to buy a copy of <3rd party product here> but
the author/producer/retailer has disappeared, what can I do?" below.
* How can I print to Windows only printers?
Short answer:
See <URL:http://www.dse.nl/%7Etmk/clipper/clpwinprint.htm>.
Short answer:
See below as well as many of the solutions will probably work (chances are
that you might also be confused about what a "Windows only" printer is).
* How can I print to a USB printer?
Short answer:
See above.
Example Deja search:
<URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=usb+printer+%7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&ST=MS&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
* I need to buy a copy of <3rd party product here> but the
author/producer/retailer has disappeared, what can I do?
Short answer:
Try <URL:http://www.grafxsoft.com/>.
Jules Alberts
wrote:<snip>
hi Dave and others,
a suggestion: it may be useful to include a section about editors [0]
(with URLs) which are fitted for clipper in the faq. the question
"which editor to use" keeps returning.
[0] maybe even other editors than Vim :)
--
Jules Alberts
joolsa atmark maildot com (humans know what to do)
Dave Pearson
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:20:01 BST, Dave Pearson <davep...@davep.org>
> wrote:
> >VERY FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Compiled by Dave Pearson
> ><da...@davep.org> $Revision: 1.15 $
> <snip>
>
> a suggestion: it may be useful to include a section about editors [0]
> (with URLs) which are fitted for clipper in the faq. the question "which
> editor to use" keeps returning.
Funnily enough I was thinking about this just this morning. I'm actually
loath to do this because it has very little to do with Clipper. What I am
considering is finding the be-all-and-end-all of editor comparison web sites
and simply having a pointer to that.
Anyone know of such a site?
> [0] maybe even other editors than Vim :)
There is only emacs.
--
Dave Pearson: | lbdb.el - LBDB interface.
http://www.davep.org/ | sawfish.el - Sawfish mode.
Emacs: | uptimes.el - Record emacs uptimes.
http://www.davep.org/emacs/ | quickurl.el - Recall lists of URLs.
Attila Feher
[SNIP]
> > [0] maybe even other editors than Vim :)
>
> There is only emacs.
Oh boy. You live in the middle ages. Nirvana Editor: now that is a
good one! (Only for X)
A
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
> [SNIP]
> > > [0] maybe even other editors than Vim :)
> >
> > There is only emacs.
> [SNIP]
>
> Oh boy. You live in the middle ages.
You are mistaken, but that's to be expected from one who doesn't understand
the beauty of a fully portable religion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwork environment.
Run, don't walk, to <URL:news:alt.religion.emacs> and repent.
> Nirvana Editor: now that is a good
> one! (Only for X)
If it's only for X that's one count against it right away. The one true
editor works on terminals, under X, under DOS, under Win32 console, under
Win32GUI, under OS/2 console, under OS/2 GUI, under Mac, under...
. o O ( Middle ages indeed. )
--
Dave Pearson | OSLib - Timeslice release functions.
http://www.davep.org/ | eg - Norton Guide reader for Linux.
http://www.davep.org/clipper/ | weg - Norton Guide reader for Windows.
http://www.davep.org/norton-guides/ | dgscan - DGROUP scanner for Clipper.
Dave Pearson
> Funnily enough I was thinking about this just this morning. I'm actually
> loath to do this because it has very little to do with Clipper. What I am
> considering is finding the be-all-and-end-all of editor comparison web
> sites and simply having a pointer to that.
I've just updated the VFAQ to remove the explanation about disclaimer and to
convert all the Deja links to Google Group links. I've also added this extra
VFAQ:
-- cut here ----------------------------------------------------------------
* What's the best Windows text editor for Clipper programming?
Short answer:
There is no "best", only best for you.
Example Google search:
<URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=windows+editor+group%3Acomp.lang.clipper>
dmoz Category
<URL:http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Editors/>
-- cut here ----------------------------------------------------------------
That should be a start. If anyone's pet editor isn't listed under that dmoz
category they should probably get it included.
--
> Ever tried modifying code that's been indented with spaces?
Yes, its easy. If it isnt easy for you, your editor is insufficiently close
to emacs. [Gareth Owen on the LBC mailing list]
Attila Feher
>
> * Attila Feher <Attila...@lmf.ericsson.se>:
>
> > Dave Pearson wrote:
> > [SNIP]
> > > > [0] maybe even other editors than Vim :)
> > >
> > > There is only emacs.
> > [SNIP]
> >
> > Oh boy. You live in the middle ages.
>
> You are mistaken, but that's to be expected from one who doesn't understand
> the beauty of a fully portable religion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwork environment.
>
> Run, don't walk, to <URL:news:alt.religion.emacs> and repent.
>
> > Nirvana Editor: now that is a good
> > one! (Only for X)
>
> If it's only for X that's one count against it right away. The one true
> editor works on terminals, under X, under DOS, under Win32 console, under
> Win32GUI, under OS/2 console, under OS/2 GUI, under Mac, under...
>
> . o O ( Middle ages indeed. )
:-)))) The TRUE editor was E.EXE from whateverSW (licenced by IBM).
Very much like a _nice_ VI for DOS. Anyone remembers? (BTW, I like
EMACS except 2 things: to start up it takes about the same time as the
OS itself; it takes about 30 years to learn it fully).
A
Dave Pearson
> :-)))) The TRUE editor was E.EXE from whateverSW (licenced by IBM). Very
> much like a _nice_ VI for DOS. Anyone remembers?
The name rings a bell but I don't know if I recall ever actually using it.
Where would I have encountered it?
I do recall Watcom C shipping with some vi clone.
> (BTW, I like EMACS
> except 2 things: to start up it takes about the same time as the OS
> itself;
If startup time is a problem you're using it incorrectly. I've had emacs
sessions lasting months. gnuclient is your friend.
> it takes about 30 years to learn it fully).
You're missing the point. It's not that it takes ages to fully learn, it's
that there's always something new to amuse the curious hacker. I'm also told
you can write fun add-ons for it too.
Attila Feher
>
> * Attila Feher <Attila...@lmf.ericsson.se>:
>
> > :-)))) The TRUE editor was E.EXE from whateverSW (licenced by IBM). Very
> > much like a _nice_ VI for DOS. Anyone remembers?
>
> The name rings a bell but I don't know if I recall ever actually using it.
> Where would I have encountered it?
It was time to time called PE.EXE, too. It shipped with PC-Dos, but
without the development environment. The E.EX (or PE.EX) file was
basically the one making the editor work, very mich like a likeweigth
MultiEdit. It had a very good macro language, and the macros compiled
to this E.EX or PE.EX.
> I do recall Watcom C shipping with some vi clone.
Hm. Probably. The version 10 or what was what I had was Windows based.
> > except 2 things: to start up it takes about the same time as the OS
> > itself;
>
> If startup time is a problem you're using it incorrectly. I've had emacs
> sessions lasting months. gnuclient is your friend.
Problem is: once you use ClearCase you cannot just leave the editor
around for a month. Same true to community development w/o CC. BTW it
is also ugly - compared to NE. :-)))
> > it takes about 30 years to learn it fully).
>
> You're missing the point. It's not that it takes ages to fully learn, it's
> that there's always something new to amuse the curious hacker. I'm also told
> you can write fun add-ons for it too.
Sure. Also for NEdit. :-)) And it did not take me to learn the basic
operations more than 2 hours (to get it automatic). In EMacs it was
just 15 minutes to get out of the menu... :-)))
EMacs is nice. To those knowing it and to those who had the chance of
learning more than 15 minutes about UNIX in their college. Mine was
poor. So when I had time to "waste" I did not learn it. Now it is not
important to me to have an editor which can be used to implement a C++
compiler... what is important for me is to have a fully capable (to my
needs) yet easy to use one. EMACS is not an editor: it is a platfrom of
its own. Worth to know it well, if you had the chance... I did not.
A
Richard Bos
[ About EMACS ]
> You are mistaken, but that's to be expected from one who doesn't understand
> the beauty of a fully portable religion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwork environment.
As they said about the IBM PC-Portable: that's not "portable", that's
"luggable".
> If it's only for X that's one count against it right away. The one true
> editor works on terminals, under X, under DOS, under Win32 console, under
> Win32GUI, under OS/2 console, under OS/2 GUI, under Mac, under...
For sufficiently elephantine values of "works"...
One editor for each environment, that's what I say. So your DOS editor
can abuse DOS features, your Windows editor can abuse Windows features,
etcetera.
Richard
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > The name rings a bell but I don't know if I recall ever actually using
> > it. Where would I have encountered it?
>
> It was time to time called PE.EXE, too. It shipped with PC-Dos, but
> without the development environment. The E.EX (or PE.EX) file was
> basically the one making the editor work, very mich like a likeweigth
> MultiEdit. It had a very good macro language, and the macros compiled to
> this E.EX or PE.EX.
PE sounds very familiar. Didn't PE ship with OS/2? I'm sure I remember using
something called that when I first installed OS/2.
> > If startup time is a problem you're using it incorrectly. I've had emacs
> > sessions lasting months. gnuclient is your friend.
>
> Problem is: once you use ClearCase you cannot just leave the editor around
> for a month.
Why not?
> Same true to community development w/o CC.
Why? Lots of emacs developers work on shared code and don't have problems
with keeping the editor up for a long time.
> BTW it is
> also ugly - compared to NE. :-)))
Ugly?
> > You're missing the point. It's not that it takes ages to fully learn,
> > it's that there's always something new to amuse the curious hacker. I'm
> > also told you can write fun add-ons for it too.
>
> Sure. Also for NEdit. :-)) And it did not take me to learn the basic
> operations more than 2 hours (to get it automatic). In EMacs it was just
> 15 minutes to get out of the menu... :-)))
I've seen a few people saw this sort of thing, I've never understood their
problem myself. I don't recall having a problem getting out of emacs the
first time I used it. The common complaint people seem to make is "I
couldn't work out how to get out of it". Thing is, it tells you how to do
this when you start it up.
> EMacs is nice. To those knowing it and to those who had the chance of
> learning more than 15 minutes about UNIX in their college.
I like emacs but I'd never really used a UNIX before I used emacs. I started
with emacs on OS/2. UNIX came after. Moreover, I fail to see what learning
UNIX has got to do with being happy with a portable development environment.
Attila Feher
[SNIP]
> PE sounds very familiar. Didn't PE ship with OS/2? I'm sure I remember using
> something called that when I first installed OS/2.
OS/2 and PC-DOS.
[SNIP]
> > Problem is: once you use ClearCase you cannot just leave the editor around
> > for a month.
>
> Why not?
Emacs dear does not (always) detect if the file has been changed on the
disk. I had here 2 guys busily overwriting eachother's changes in the
same file...
> > Same true to community development w/o CC.
>
> Why? Lots of emacs developers work on shared code and don't have problems
> with keeping the editor up for a long time.
Maybe. What I saw here was different. NEdit immediately warns about
the need of reload when gets the focus... the same file opened in
Emacs... Emacs may or may not (80% not) realize that its buffer is too
old.
> > BTW it is
> > also ugly - compared to NE. :-)))
>
> Ugly?
Yep. U know: look and feel. Or Luke and Darth Vader (IMHO those are
both ugly :-)))
> > > You're missing the point. It's not that it takes ages to fully learn,
> > > it's that there's always something new to amuse the curious hacker. I'm
> > > also told you can write fun add-ons for it too.
> >
> > Sure. Also for NEdit. :-)) And it did not take me to learn the basic
> > operations more than 2 hours (to get it automatic). In EMacs it was just
> > 15 minutes to get out of the menu... :-)))
>
> I've seen a few people saw this sort of thing, I've never understood their
> problem myself. I don't recall having a problem getting out of emacs the
> first time I used it. The common complaint people seem to make is "I
> couldn't work out how to get out of it". Thing is, it tells you how to do
> this when you start it up.
Yep, the following worked: pkill -9 xemacs. When I have tried to quit
it is was complaining: minibuffer is active...
> > EMacs is nice. To those knowing it and to those who had the chance of
> > learning more than 15 minutes about UNIX in their college.
>
> I like emacs but I'd never really used a UNIX before I used emacs. I started
> with emacs on OS/2. UNIX came after. Moreover, I fail to see what learning
> UNIX has got to do with being happy with a portable development environment.
It means that in college you (were) only able to access emacs on UNIX -
in the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me with DOS and
Win3.1 never learnt Emacs.
A
Dave Pearson
> davep...@davep.org (Dave Pearson) wrote:
>
> > You are mistaken, but that's to be expected from one who doesn't
> > understand the beauty of a fully portable religion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwork
> > environment.
>
> As they said about the IBM PC-Portable: that's not "portable", that's
> "luggable".
Thankfully I don't need to carry emacs about, it's just there, it's
software, it's not hardware. Besides, "luggable" suggests that it's the
thing we're talking about that needs to be moved. You're mistaken, probably
because you're forgetting that the world revolves around emacs.
M-x all-hail-emacs RET
> > If it's only for X that's one count against it right away. The one true
> > editor works on terminals, under X, under DOS, under Win32 console,
> > under Win32GUI, under OS/2 console, under OS/2 GUI, under Mac, under...
>
> For sufficiently elephantine values of "works"...
Funny you should mention elephants, that's a good point. As we all know, an
elephant never forgets, neither does my ~/.emacs file. I have exactly the
same environment on my three main OSs (GNU/Linux, Windows, DOS). Just like
an elephant, I never forget.
> One editor for each environment, that's what I say. So your DOS editor can
> abuse DOS features, your Windows editor can abuse Windows features,
> etcetera.
What DOS and Windows features am I failing to exploit by using emacs in
those environments? Why would I want the features I am failing to exploit?
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
> [SNIP]
>
> > > Problem is: once you use ClearCase you cannot just leave the editor
> > > around for a month.
> >
> > Why not?
>
> Emacs dear does not (always) detect if the file has been changed on the
> disk. I had here 2 guys busily overwriting eachother's changes in the same
> file...
If these guys were using ClearCase wouldn't it have made sense for them to
use the ClearCase enhanced version of VC to manage their editing sessions? I
mean, I've never seen ClearCase and I won't claim to know anything useful
about it but I've seen the VC add-on for it and it strikes me that handling
edits via VC is the sensible approach.
Also, your answer doesn't say why using ClearCase means that you can't have
an emacs session running for an extended period of time.
> > Why? Lots of emacs developers work on shared code and don't have
> > problems with keeping the editor up for a long time.
>
> Maybe. What I saw here was different. NEdit immediately warns about the
> need of reload when gets the focus... the same file opened in Emacs...
> Emacs may or may not (80% not) realize that its buffer is too old.
If you've got two or more people working on the same file it strikes me
that, at the very least, RCS or CVS is a requirement. Relying on the editor
to notice that the file has been changed under it (something I've never seen
emacs fail to do) seems like a suboptimal method of doing "community
development".
I'd be horrified to find that two programmers were using their editors to
fight over a single file in the way you describe.
> > > BTW it
> > > is also ugly - compared to NE. :-)))
> >
> > Ugly?
>
> Yep. U know: look and feel. Or Luke and Darth Vader (IMHO those are both
> ugly :-)))
Odd, I just downloaded nedit this morning to see what the fuss was about.
When I ran it up it was an empty window with a menu at the top. When I run
up emacs it's an empty window with a menu at the top and a status line at
the bottom. It would appear that nedit looks very similar to GNU emacs on
startup (less so compared to the up-and-coming GNU emacs 21 release because
it starts with toolbars and the like turned on).
> Yep, the following worked: pkill -9 xemacs. When I have tried to quit it
> is was complaining: minibuffer is active...
xemacs?!? No no no no no. GNU emacs is the one true editor.
> > I like emacs but I'd never really used a UNIX before I used emacs. I
> > started with emacs on OS/2. UNIX came after. Moreover, I fail to see
> > what learning UNIX has got to do with being happy with a portable
> > development environment.
>
> It means that in college you (were) only able to access emacs on UNIX - in
> the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me with DOS and Win3.1
> never learnt Emacs.
Indeed, and I'm pointing out that I wasn't able to access emacs on UNIX at
college (I don't recall ever seeing UNIX at college, we ran a Harris
mainframe and I can't remember what the OS was on that, I don't remember it
being UNIX, a VAX running VMS was on order but I left before that turned up)
either but still managed to learn emacs.
IOW, I'm a "guys like me" and I did learn emacs, without ever having used
emacs on UNIX (without ever having knowingly used UNIX).
Attila Feher
[SNIP]
> Also, your answer doesn't say why using ClearCase means that you can't have
> an emacs session running for an extended period of time.
No problem. No time to explain, but shortly: I don't trust an editor
which does not do this simple thing reliably.
[SNIP]
> If you've got two or more people working on the same file it strikes me
> that, at the very least, RCS or CVS is a requirement. Relying on the editor
> to notice that the file has been changed under it (something I've never seen
> emacs fail to do) seems like a suboptimal method of doing "community
> development".
Mistake. With NEdit it becomes obvious immediately.
> I'd be horrified to find that two programmers were using their editors to
> fight over a single file in the way you describe.
Yep. You find it out fast with NEdit, not with xemacs on Solaris 7.
> Odd, I just downloaded nedit this morning to see what the fuss was about.
Good for you.
> When I ran it up it was an empty window with a menu at the top. When I run
> up emacs it's an empty window with a menu at the top and a status line at
> the bottom. It would appear that nedit looks very similar to GNU emacs on
> startup (less so compared to the up-and-coming GNU emacs 21 release because
> it starts with toolbars and the like turned on).
The difference is, that I have changed few settings (not in a menu of
1E10 submenus) and for me it does have all the bars I want, handles
clipboard properly etc. etc. Starts up very fast, uses nice readable
font, making syntax highlighting for SMIv2 files took 3 minutes etc.
etc. etc.
Learn keystrokes... and I don't need to read a 80000 pages documentation
to find out how...
> > Yep, the following worked: pkill -9 xemacs. When I have tried to quit it
> > is was complaining: minibuffer is active...
>
> xemacs?!? No no no no no. GNU emacs is the one true editor.
It is also GNU as far as I know... but I don't really care. I use it
only with the debugger, because it cannot work with anything else.
[SNIP]
> Indeed, and I'm pointing out that I wasn't able to access emacs on UNIX at
> college (I don't recall ever seeing UNIX at college, we ran a Harris
> mainframe and I can't remember what the OS was on that, I don't remember it
> being UNIX, a VAX running VMS was on order but I left before that turned up)
> either but still managed to learn emacs.
>
> IOW, I'm a "guys like me" and I did learn emacs, without ever having used
> emacs on UNIX (without ever having knowingly used UNIX).
You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or
doing something not work related at the rest of the time.
A
John Seberg
>
>You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or
>doing something not work related at the rest of the time.
>
Obviously, both of you have LOTS of time.
Attila Feher
[SNIP]
> Obviously, both of you have LOTS of time.
And this mails take me less time than start Emacs up :-)))) And editor
is anyway a religious issue! There will be piece in the middle east way
before programmers will agree on:
- editor to use
- OS to use
- programming tool/language to use
:-)))
Attila Feher
Actually I have a f*****g slow SUN Ultra 5 to build a huge C++
project...
A
Ross McKenzie
Elhamdullillah...a receipe at last for peace in the Middle East!
Attila...you should receive the next Nobel Peace Prize ....but first
we need agreement on those other 3 little religious issues of editor,
OS and programming language.
Regards,
Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
> [SNIP]
>
> > Also, your answer doesn't say why using ClearCase means that you can't
> > have an emacs session running for an extended period of time.
>
> No problem. No time to explain,
That's unfortunate because it's quite a sweeping claim to make and it really
does require some explanation for it to make sense. If you're going to post
"facts" to usenet you must reasonably expect people to ask you for something
to back them up.
> but shortly: I don't trust an editor which
> does not do this simple thing reliably.
GNU emacs does handle this reliably. Just to be certain I did some quick
tests. No matter how I approach it I was unable to make different edits to
the same file in two emacs sessions without emacs alerting me to the fact
that the file had changed on disk underneath my edit.
xemacs 21.1.14 seems to cope just as well.
But, anyway, my experience of GNU emacs doesn't seem to match yours. Neither
does your claim that using ClearCase means that you can't keep emacs up for
extended sessions make sense.
> > If you've got two or more people working on the same file it strikes me
> > that, at the very least, RCS or CVS is a requirement. Relying on the
> > editor to notice that the file has been changed under it (something I've
> > never seen emacs fail to do) seems like a suboptimal method of doing
> > "community development".
>
> Mistake. With NEdit it becomes obvious immediately.
I just tested the situation with GNU emacs. It became immediately obvious
using it too. Pretty much the same with xemacs (although GNU emacs had edge
in the test I did).
> > I'd be horrified to find that two programmers were using their editors
> > to fight over a single file in the way you describe.
>
> Yep. You find it out fast with NEdit, not with xemacs on Solaris 7.
Perhaps you've found a bug with xemacs on Solaris 7? That doesn't translate
into a problem with emacsen in general or GNU emacs.
> > When I ran it up it was an empty window with a menu at the top. When I
> > run up emacs it's an empty window with a menu at the top and a status
> > line at the bottom. It would appear that nedit looks very similar to GNU
> > emacs on startup (less so compared to the up-and-coming GNU emacs 21
> > release because it starts with toolbars and the like turned on).
>
> The difference is, that I have changed few settings (not in a menu of 1E10
> submenus)
Something GNU emacs doesn't have either. The last time I used xemacs in
anger I saw nothing to suggest you had to use "1E10 submenus" to configure
it either.
> and for me it does have all the bars I want, handles clipboard
> properly etc. etc.
What do you mean by "handles clipboard properly"? How does GNU emacs, or
xemacs for that matter, not handle the clipboard properly?
> Learn keystrokes... and I don't need to read a 80000 pages documentation
> to find out how...
Oddly enough I didn't need to do that with GNU emacs. It seems to me that
you're inventing exaggerated facts about emacs for no good reason. So you
found emacs difficult to learn, I didn't <shrug>.
> > xemacs?!? No no no no no. GNU emacs is the one true editor.
>
> It is also GNU as far as I know...
xemacs is a different project from GNU emacs. xemacs isn't part of the GNU
project. It has a common heritage with GNU emacs but it forked quite some
time ago.
> > IOW, I'm a "guys like me" and I did learn emacs, without ever having
> > used emacs on UNIX (without ever having knowingly used UNIX).
>
> You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or doing
> something not work related at the rest of the time.
So, what, the conclusion here is that I don't work full days or that I don't
have a life outside of my work? All because I've managed to learn an editor
that you seem to have found daunting? How about this for an idea Attila? How
about you *don't* invent things about me and, then, consider what I'm
reporting in the context of the truth and the facts rather than in the
context of some odd little fantasy that you've dreamt up.
Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't an issue of time but an issue of
ability, or interest, or something else? Just because you find something
hard it doesn't mean that everyone else does.
I never thought that my attempt at reasoned debate to learn about your
experiences with emacs (especially your claim about uptimes in regard to
ClearCase and emacs) would result in such petty insults. I guess that
editors really are a religion for some people. Most bizarre.
Dave Pearson
About as much as the people who are able to point this out.
. o O ( Personally I've never seen time spent learning as time wasted, so )
( I don't have wasted time, only invested time. )
Attila Feher
Actually I have 3 easier step leading to the same result:
1. Stretch Israel, so it so big enough for both
2. Make water come out of stone(s), so they have enough water
3. Make them forget all the sins they have comitted to each other -
overnight, so they don't hate each other
A
Attila Feher
> That's unfortunate because it's quite a sweeping claim to make and it really
> does require some explanation for it to make sense. If you're going to post
> "facts" to usenet you must reasonably expect people to ask you for something
> to back them up.
Yes, it is unfortunate.
> GNU emacs does handle this reliably. Just to be certain I did some quick
> tests. No matter how I approach it I was unable to make different edits to
> the same file in two emacs sessions without emacs alerting me to the fact
> that the file had changed on disk underneath my edit.
>
> xemacs 21.1.14 seems to cope just as well.
>
> But, anyway, my experience of GNU emacs doesn't seem to match yours. Neither
> does your claim that using ClearCase means that you can't keep emacs up for
> extended sessions make sense.
Good for you.
[SNIP]
> I just tested the situation with GNU emacs. It became immediately obvious
> using it too. Pretty much the same with xemacs (although GNU emacs had edge
> in the test I did).
Detto
[SNIP]
> Perhaps you've found a bug with xemacs on Solaris 7? That doesn't translate
> into a problem with emacsen in general or GNU emacs.
Perhaps.
> > The difference is, that I have changed few settings (not in a menu of 1E10
> > submenus)
>
> Something GNU emacs doesn't have either. The last time I used xemacs in
> anger I saw nothing to suggest you had to use "1E10 submenus" to configure
> it either.
Right. The one here has. The one I d/ld for Windows (only few times
10MB) had. It seems I have hunted emaces.
[SNIP]
> > Learn keystrokes... and I don't need to read a 80000 pages documentation
> > to find out how...
>
> Oddly enough I didn't need to do that with GNU emacs. It seems to me that
> you're inventing exaggerated facts about emacs for no good reason. So you
> found emacs difficult to learn, I didn't <shrug>.
Good for you.
> > > xemacs?!? No no no no no. GNU emacs is the one true editor.
> >
> > It is also GNU as far as I know...
>
> xemacs is a different project from GNU emacs. xemacs isn't part of the GNU
> project. It has a common heritage with GNU emacs but it forked quite some
> time ago.
Aha. I have started emacs as well and tried here. It had the same menu
structure.
> > > IOW, I'm a "guys like me" and I did learn emacs, without ever having
> > > used emacs on UNIX (without ever having knowingly used UNIX).
> >
> > You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or doing
> > something not work related at the rest of the time.
>
> So, what, the conclusion here is that I don't work full days or that I don't
> have a life outside of my work?
You say this, I did not.
> All because I've managed to learn an editor
> that you seem to have found daunting?
I dunno what is daunting, but again: I did not f*ck*ng say you don't
work. I said: you had time to learn it, I did not. And nowadays I have
no time at all. GOT IT? It did not say _anything_ about your time or
work or anything.
> How about this for an idea Attila? How
> about you *don't* invent things about me and, then, consider what I'm
> reporting in the context of the truth and the facts rather than in the
> context of some odd little fantasy that you've dreamt up.
How about I did not f*cking invent anything about you? How about you
take your frustration to the local pub and beat some guys up there? How
about you read what I write and not what you make up? How about being
objective and duplicating written things not interpreting them? How
about not changing every friendly discussion to battle over nothing???
> Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't an issue of time but an issue of
> ability, or interest, or something else?
Did it ever occur to you that for me it _was_ _for_ _sure_ an issue of
time? Did it ever occur to you I am not crazy to learn something which
does not give me a damn bit more benefits than another thing I can use
right away??? Did it ever occur to you that it _might_ happen once in
your life that God does not give you the insigth to the other poster's
head and you may make up things just because... whatever...
> Just because you find something
> hard it doesn't mean that everyone else does.
Wow. And? Just because you don't find something too hard (hard and too
hard is a different term!) and not worth to do it does not mean that
everyone else does!!!
> I never thought that my attempt at reasoned debate to learn about your
> experiences with emacs (especially your claim about uptimes in regard to
> ClearCase and emacs) would result in such petty insults.
There was no insult my dear. You made it up. Consult the netiquette!
I have never meant any insult, but it is not the first time that talking
to you turns to be a nightmare.
> I guess that
> editors really are a religion for some people. Most bizarre.
Most bizarre is how you can do a battle from a friendly discussion and
take offense where none was meant. So long
A
Jules Alberts
wrote:
<_HUGE_ snip>
>guess that editors really are a religion for some people. Most
>bizarre.
in fact, it can get even more bizarre than that: people that take
religions as a religion :)
<meta-posting>
aargh, i (it was me, wasn't it?) 've created a moloch when starting
this thread, it's taking proportions like the $RANT one on the scary
devil monastry. anyway, as long as the end conclusion is that
Vim is The One, it's been worth the bandwidth :))
</meta-posting>
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > Something GNU emacs doesn't have either. The last time I used xemacs in
> > anger I saw nothing to suggest you had to use "1E10 submenus" to
> > configure it either.
>
> Right. The one here has. The one I d/ld for Windows (only few times 10MB)
> had. It seems I have hunted emaces.
What version and what flavour? xemacs has a menu interface into the
`customize' system but, obviously, you don't need to use it, you can
directly use the `customize' system.
nedit seems to have a similar interface but it seems to have fewer
configurable options.
I'm not sure what "hunted emaces" means.
> > xemacs is a different project from GNU emacs. xemacs isn't part of the
> > GNU project. It has a common heritage with GNU emacs but it forked quite
> > some time ago.
>
> Aha. I have started emacs as well and tried here. It had the same menu
> structure.
GNU emacs and Xemacs have very different menu structures. Furthermore, I'm
not sure how menu structures suggest that GNU emacs and xemacs are both part
of the GNU project.
> > > You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or
> > > doing something not work related at the rest of the time.
> >
> > So, what, the conclusion here is that I don't work full days or that I
> > don't have a life outside of my work?
>
> You say this, I did not.
No, you said that I had the time and then you comment on the sinks on your
time. You start with the assumption that I "had the time" and explain why
you don't. I'm pointing out to you that this is an incorrect assumption.
> [SNIP a load of insults and foul language]
I really don't think there's any call for that sort of behaviour.
> > Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't an issue of time but an issue of
> > ability, or interest, or something else?
>
> Did it ever occur to you that for me it _was_ _for_ _sure_ an issue of
> time?
Yes, obviously it did, I said so too. Look at the question you quote above.
> Did it ever occur to you I am not crazy to learn something which
> does not give me a damn bit more benefits than another thing I can use
> right away??? Did it ever occur to you that it _might_ happen once in your
> life that God does not give you the insigth to the other poster's head and
> you may make up things just because... whatever...
[<sigh> More insults] Attila, you're the one making broad statements about
when and how I learnt emacs. I'm pointing out that you can't know, which
should tell you that I also don't claim to know anything about your
approach, other than what you've told me.
In case it isn't clear, I've been asking questions about your experience
because it's interesting. You've been evasive about the facts behind the
statements and you've assumed a couple of things about how I approached
emacs that needn't be assumed. You drew a parallel between how I use my
spare time and how you use yours. Don't be surprised to find that I will
point out how incorrect that assumption is.
> > I guess that editors really are a religion for some people. Most
> > bizarre.
>
> Most bizarre is how you can do a battle from a friendly discussion and
> take offense where none was meant. So long
Interesting take on events. I'm asking about the facts behind your
experiences with emacs and you're evasive about them due to lack of time. I
point out that you've assumed too much about how and when I learnt emacs and
you pour out a stream of abuse and foul language. I think you're confused
about who is debasing a friendly discussion here.
Dave Pearson
> <meta-posting>
> aargh, i (it was me, wasn't it?) 've created a moloch when starting
> this thread, it's taking proportions like the $RANT one on the scary
> devil monastry. anyway, as long as the end conclusion is that
> Vim is The One, it's been worth the bandwidth :))
> </meta-posting>
I'd say that <URL:http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/vi-emacs.html> settles it
if it wasn't for the fact that vi is winning. ;>
<URL:http://www.tarunz.org/~vassilii/srom/> isn't much help either. Bother!
. o O ( Time to go and fully grok ed. )
Attila Feher
> [<sigh> More insults] Attila, you're the one making broad statements about
> when and how I learnt emacs.
QUOTE HERE MY WORDS WHERE I TALK ABOUT HOW AND WHEN DID *YOU* LEARN
EMACS. Please!
Until then: I have killfiled this thread.
A
Dave Pearson
> [SNIP]
>
> > [<sigh> More insults] Attila, you're the one making broad statements
> > about when and how I learnt emacs.
>
> QUOTE HERE MY WORDS WHERE I TALK ABOUT HOW AND WHEN DID *YOU* LEARN EMACS.
> Please!
By all means. First, the how:
,----[ <3B287893...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
| It means that in college you (were) only able to access emacs on UNIX - in
| the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me with DOS and Win3.1
| never learnt Emacs.
`----
then the when:
,----[ <3B28872B...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
| You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or doing
| something not work related at the rest of the time.
`----
> Until then: I have killfiled this thread.
I detect a Catch-22.
Attila Feher
>
> * Attila Feher <Attila...@lmf.ericsson.se>:
>
> > [SNIP]
> >
> > > [<sigh> More insults] Attila, you're the one making broad statements
> > > about when and how I learnt emacs.
> >
> > QUOTE HERE MY WORDS WHERE I TALK ABOUT HOW AND WHEN DID *YOU* LEARN EMACS.
> > Please!
>
> By all means. First, the how:
>
> ,----[ <3B287893...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
> | It means that in college you (were) only able to access emacs on UNIX - in
> | the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me with DOS and Win3.1
> | never learnt Emacs.
> `----
Now you (in the fantastic English language) means the general you as
well: It means, that in college people were only able to access emacs on
UNIX - in the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me...
> then the when:
>
> ,----[ <3B28872B...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
> | You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or doing
> | something not work related at the rest of the time.
> `----
OK, you won as soon as you admit you did not have the time. What was a
lie or misinformation in the 4 wors: You had the time???????
> > Until then: I have killfiled this thread.
>
> I detect a Catch-22.
Don't.
So again: please quote here my words where I describe how you (Dave
Pearson) learnt emacs!
A
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > ,----[ <3B287893...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
> > | It means that in college you (were) only able to access emacs on UNIX - in
> > | the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me with DOS and Win3.1
> > | never learnt Emacs.
> > `----
>
> Now you (in the fantastic English language) means the general you as well:
> It means, that in college people were only able to access emacs on UNIX -
> in the ancient times I have been there. So, guys like me...
"You" also (and mostly) means the person you're addressing. At least, it
does in my somewhat limited command of English. If you're saying that you
weren't addressing me directly I'll take your word for it.
> > then the when:
> >
> > ,----[ <3B28872B...@lmf.ericsson.se> ]
> > | You had the time. I work 13+ hours per day and I prefer sleeping or doing
> > | something not work related at the rest of the time.
> > `----
>
> OK, you won as soon as you admit you did not have the time. What was a lie
> or misinformation in the 4 wors: You had the time???????
Won? When did this turn into a competition?
As for time, no, I didn't have the time, I did make the time. The time,
however, was no more or less than the time and effort I put into learning
any development tool I care about. Any powerful tool requires some effort.
In other words, learning emacs required no more effort than I'd put in to
learning anything else that would either be useful or interesting to me.
> So again: please quote here my words where I describe how you (Dave
> Pearson) learnt emacs!
I just did, you've clarified what you really meant. That's good, that's a
lot more constructive that swearing and ranting at me.
Andrzej P. Wozniak
news:9g5ffh$avr$1...@hagbard.davep.org pisze:
> VERY FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Compiled by Dave Pearson
[...]
Dave, you should add answer, how to fix R6003 when you have no source code
available...
> * What is runtime error R6003?
>
> FAQ:
> <URL:http://www.davep.org/clipper/FAQ/clipper-5.html#ss5.7>
>
> Example Deja search:
> <URL:http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=r6003+%
> 7Eg+comp.lang.clipper&ST=MS&svcclass=dnserver&DBS=1>
>
> Update (FAQ requires updating with this information):
> <URL:ftp://ftp.ca.com/pub/clipper/tools3.zip> fixes the problem.
...and the answer was:
Use the following patch that replaces the DIV CX instruction that causes the
R6003 error with two NOP instructions.
Use a hex editor to find the following sequence of bytes in your program:
B8 52 17 8B CA 33 D2 F7 F1
then replace the last bytes F7 F1 with 90 90.
--
}Regards from the Harbour mirror in Poland
Andrzej P. Wozniak
us...@poczta.onet.pl (z->h in address from header)
http://www.harbour.pl.eu.org/
Dave Pearson
> Dave, you should add answer, how to fix R6003 when you have no source code
> available...
Good point, I'll address this when I get a spare moment (if it's not in next
week's FAQ post please feel free to send be a "hassle email").
> Use the following patch that replaces the DIV CX instruction that causes
> the R6003 error with two NOP instructions.
>
> Use a hex editor to find the following sequence of bytes in your program:
> B8 52 17 8B CA 33 D2 F7 F1
> then replace the last bytes F7 F1 with 90 90.
Looking at this it strikes me that it would be a good idea to write a little
PRG that does this fix. If nobody beats me to this and makes it available on
their web page I'll knock this up (it'll need to be totally stand alone,
ideally available as source).
Attila Feher
[SNIP]
> > Use the following patch that replaces the DIV CX instruction that causes
> > the R6003 error with two NOP instructions.
> >
> > Use a hex editor to find the following sequence of bytes in your program:
> > B8 52 17 8B CA 33 D2 F7 F1
> > then replace the last bytes F7 F1 with 90 90.
>
> Looking at this it strikes me that it would be a good idea to write a little
> PRG that does this fix. If nobody beats me to this and makes it available on
> their web page I'll knock this up (it'll need to be totally stand alone,
> ideally available as source).
I am going to do this most probably today or on the weekend. Anybody
has a little Clipper progy for testing? I have "patched" libraries
installed _only_, so I cannot create anymore a bad exe myself :-)))
Just a hello world stuff for ttesting.
A
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > Looking at this it strikes me that it would be a good idea to write a
> > little PRG that does this fix. If nobody beats me to this and makes it
> > available on their web page I'll knock this up (it'll need to be totally
> > stand alone, ideally available as source).
>
> I am going to do this most probably today or on the weekend. Anybody has a
> little Clipper progy for testing? I have "patched" libraries installed
> _only_, so I cannot create anymore a bad exe myself :-))) Just a hello
> world stuff for ttesting.
Good news. Let me know when you've got this working and available and I'll
update the VFAQ to point to it.
Attila Feher
> Good news. Let me know when you've got this working and available and I'll
> update the VFAQ to point to it.
Hey Dave while U R here!!! Could you send me a little hello world??
Also to whit...@mailbox.hu and/or whit...@pp.inet.fi
At work the Exchange server is...
I have already asked E.P. van Westendorp by phone, but it is better if I
have two proggies than none... :-)) I'd like to do it during the
weekend.
A
Dave Pearson
> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > Good news. Let me know when you've got this working and available and
> > I'll update the VFAQ to point to it.
>
> Hey Dave while U R here!!! Could you send me a little hello world?? Also
> to whit...@mailbox.hu and/or whit...@pp.inet.fi
Don't you need a program linked with Clipper Tools or something? Sorry, I've
never seen a copy of Clipper Tools, let alone linked a copy into a program.