Jewish minutiae
John Boston
Viagra was not kosher for Passover, which begins at sundown
on Saturday. The pill's coating is the problem, it said, adding
that 'in the event of urgent medical need' a rabbi can authorize
an emergency usage."
John Boston
Ray Radlein
On the other hand, at Hanukkah, one little pill will miraculously keep
you going for eight whole days.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Right now, it looks like a hunter; but if you push this button,
here, and fold it like so, it turns into... a deer!"
"What a cute little doll!"
"Please! It's not a *doll* -- it's an *Actaeon Figure*!"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Seth Breidbart
John Boston <john....@verizon.net> wrote:
>From today's New York Times: "Israel Radio reported that
>Viagra was not kosher for Passover, which begins at sundown
>on Saturday.
Of course not; it makes things rise.
> The pill's coating is the problem, it said, adding
>that 'in the event of urgent medical need' a rabbi can authorize
>an emergency usage."
Seth
Evelyn C. Leeper
Seth Breidbart <se...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <3ACB1F56...@verizon.net>,
> John Boston <john....@verizon.net> wrote:
> >From today's New York Times: "Israel Radio reported that
> >Viagra was not kosher for Passover, which begins at sundown
> >on Saturday.
>
> Of course not; it makes things rise.
Ten lashes with a wet "kosher-for-pesach" noodle!
(Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://www.geocities.com/evelynleeper
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford, 1992
Dan Kimmel
news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com...
> In article <9ah4rv$gd7$1...@panix6.panix.com>,
> Seth Breidbart <se...@panix.com> wrote:
> > In article <3ACB1F56...@verizon.net>,
> > John Boston <john....@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >From today's New York Times: "Israel Radio reported that
> > >Viagra was not kosher for Passover, which begins at sundown
> > >on Saturday.
> >
> > Of course not; it makes things rise.
>
> Ten lashes with a wet "kosher-for-pesach" noodle!
>
> (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
There was an article in the Boston Globe on kosher for Passover frozen pizza
and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
Evelyn C. Leeper
I'm sorry, but I have to say that when we've reached the stage where
soy sauce is *not* okay and kosher l'Pesach pizza is, something is
seriously wrong.
YMMV, of course.
(I do make kosher l'Pesach lasagna, but I use matzoh.)
Janice Gelb
>
> (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
>
This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
The all-time winner is still the taco mix kit from a
few years back.
*****************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
The thing about having been around as long as I have is that you
can't fit your hearing aid over your earring. - Quincy Jones
Dorothy J Heydt
Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
>said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
It's a question of you can't have any yeast or anything that
behaves like yeast, right?
What about baking-powder kinds of things? Do they count as yeast
because they make things rise?
What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
into them? Is that permitted? If so you could probably invent a
bready thing that used that technique.
(I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
your choice.)
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <XH%y6.11863$RF1.7...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>There was an article in the Boston Globe on kosher for Passover frozen pizza
>>and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
>>said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
> It's a question of you can't have any yeast or anything that
> behaves like yeast, right?
Yes.
> What about baking-powder kinds of things? Do they count as yeast
> because they make things rise?
Yes.
> What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
> beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
> into them? Is that permitted?
Yes. I think that counts as beating air into a mixture, not generating
gas.
> (I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
> something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
> your choice.)
All of the above answers are pretty standardized. I've never heard
anyone say "Oh, it's a muffin, it uses baking soda instead of yeast,
so it's allowed."
(Note that I don't follow any of the food rules at all.)
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* My vote counts -- count my vote!
David Joseph Greenbaum
inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>It's a question of you can't have any yeast or anything that
>behaves like yeast, right?
It's not *just* that. There's a blanket ban on things made from flour
that isn't powdered matzoh. Ostensibly, there are five grains
specifically named: wheat, oats, rye, barley, spelt. Nothing of these
grains may be eaten, unless it is wheat and it is matzoh. Basically,
all the rest of the restrictions are based on the idea that if other
people see you eating the thing, they'll think that the restrictions
against the real no-no's have passed, and thus eating the "kitniyot"
has the potential of deceiving others into sin. So that's why maize,
rice, pulses, buckwheat, etc, are forbidden to Ashkenazic Jews.
>What about baking-powder kinds of things? Do they count as yeast
>because they make things rise?
They count as yeasty badness.
>What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
>beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
>into them? Is that permitted? If so you could probably invent a
>bready thing that used that technique.
That's exactly the way honey cakes are made on Passover - with matzoh
meal and potato starch, of course.
>(I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
>something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
>your choice.)
I dunno about that. The idea, basically, is to remember our
ancestors' discomfort in the desert by eating hard-tack. When people
try really hard to find substitutes that approximate non-hard-tacky
things, they're really losing the point of the holiday. Why keep Pesach
if you're going to spend it eating extruded matzoh meal loaf?
Dave G.
--
Schöner, grüner mond von Alabama, leuchte uns!
Denn wir haben heute hier
Unterm Hemde Geldpapier
Fur ein grosses Lachen deines grossen, dummen Munds. -- Bertolt Brecht
Jonathan J. Baker
Makes perfect sense to me. Most pills are K-P, but some have problems
with starch-fillers or with gelatin coatings. If the pill is something
unflavored, that usually is OK. If the pill is something you need to
take (blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, antibiotics) that's fine too.
Many rabbis don't worry about it at all - unflavored pills are nonfoods,
so food regulations (like being kosher) don't apply to them.
What gets questionable is "optional" pills, like vitamins or Viagra.
Really, can you go without sex for a week? You went without for months
at a time before Viagra was invented.
Of course, there are times when the husband is practically *required*
to have sex with his wife. In such cases, yes, you could probably
get a rabbi to allow it.
(K-P kosher for passover)
--
Jonathan Baker | What is the 7th verse of the piut Shir haChodoshim?
jjb...@panix.com | The Nissan Stanza. [1st verse in the orig. ms.]
Web page <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker> Update: Rambam 13 Principles
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
>> (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
>> product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
>There was an article in the Boston Globe on kosher for Passover frozen pizza
>and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
>said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
I saw a product announcement for potato-starch-and-egg matza (no
grain products). That's for those who won't eat gebrokts. If
water touching the matza renders it gebrokts (potentially leavened
if perchance some grains of flour weren't sufficiently cooked),
how much worse must it be for water to touch the uncooked flour!
Jonathan J. Baker
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>There was an article in the Boston Globe on kosher for Passover frozen pizza
>>>and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
>>>said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
>> It's a question of you can't have any yeast or anything that
>> behaves like yeast, right?
>Yes.
No. You can't have things that were leavened by the interaction
of yeast, water, and one of the Five Grains (wheat, oats, rye,
barley, spelt). You can get kosher-for-passover yeast which was
not grown on a grain medium, e.g. brewers yeast. We drink lots
of wine on Passover, which is fermented by yeast - grapes are not
one of the Five Grains.
>> What about baking-powder kinds of things? Do they count as yeast
>> because they make things rise?
>Yes.
No. The verses explicitly refer to "s'or", sourdough. Baking powder
doesn't work like sourdough
>> What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
>> beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
>> into them? Is that permitted?
>Yes. I think that counts as beating air into a mixture, not generating
>gas.
Sponge cake is fine. My mother makes angel-food cake for Pesach,
as well as sponge cake, from Manischewitz mixes. The chemistry's
all different when you're basing your cake on matza meal (gluten
changed by cooking the matza) rather than on flour.
>> (I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
>> something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
>> your choice.)
>All of the above answers are pretty standardized. I've never heard
"Standardized"? How? Especially since they're all wrong.
>anyone say "Oh, it's a muffin, it uses baking soda instead of yeast,
>so it's allowed."
There's yeast in the air. It settles in the batter. The batter is
wet for longer than 18 minutes, between mixing and cooking, so one
can assume that aside from any baking powder, there's yeast leavening
the batter.
You can get kosher-for-passover baking powder.
>(Note that I don't follow any of the food rules at all.)
Which explains why you have such misconceptions about them.
Andrew Plotkin
I'm getting out of this thread right now.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Votes count. Count votes.
Debra Fran Baker
>In article <XH%y6.11863$RF1.7...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>There was an article in the Boston Globe on kosher for Passover frozen pizza
>>and the rabbi who said it was kosher (although not necessarily preferable)
>>said kosher for Passover bread is only a matter of time.
>It's a question of you can't have any yeast or anything that
>behaves like yeast, right?
>What about baking-powder kinds of things? Do they count as yeast
>because they make things rise?
Not quite. It's about "chometz", which is defined as something made from
the five grains, generally translated as wheat, oats, rye, barley and
spelt (which last is actually a variety of wheat. <shrug>). These grains,
when mixed with water in an uncooked state and allowed to remain uncooked,
will rise. Matzo, therefore, is made from these grains but is fully
cooked within eighteen minutes of the water hitting the flour. This flour
is, in fact, carefully kept from water either from harvest or from
grinding - the last is sufficient, the former is preferred by some.
It is possible to purchase kosher for passover baking powder and kosher
for passover yeast. The non-kfp yeast is grown on a grain medium.
>What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
>beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
>into them? Is that permitted? If so you could probably invent a
>bready thing that used that technique.
That describes pretty much all kfp cakes, whether they be made of matzo
cake meal (very finely ground matzo) or potato starch. And there are, in
fact, mixes and recipes for kfp rolls and such. I've made the cakes in
the past (no more since I became diabetic - they use lots of sugar), but
not the breads, which strike me as cheating.
>(I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
>something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
>your choice.)
Actually...um. What something is is important. No rabbi can define
something as permissible that is not. They can do the opposite, which is
why I'm glad our rabbi doesn't try to inflict his dietery choices on us -
he's Chasidic and follows stringencies we don't.
Debra
--
One sharp peppercorn is better than a basketful of melons.
-- Tractate Megillah 7A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Debra Fran Baker dfb...@panix.com
Janice Gelb
>
> What about a sponge-cake technique where you achieve lightness by
> beating egg whites till they're stiff and fold everything else
> into them? Is that permitted?
>
Absolutely. I barely exaggerate when I say that it would be
nearly impossible to eat on Passover without eggs :->
(My great-aunt o'h had a lemon sponge cake recipe for Passover
that called for 10 eggs.)
Jonathan J. Baker
>Actually...um. What something is is important. No rabbi can define
>something as permissible that is not. They can do the opposite, which is
>why I'm glad our rabbi doesn't try to inflict his dietery choices on us -
>he's Chasidic and follows stringencies we don't.
Actually, to be fair, he follows stringencies his own wife & kids don't.
I think it has less to do with his being Chasidic than with his being
himself.
Avram Grumer
Baker) wrote:
> Makes perfect sense to me. Most pills are K-P, but some have problems
> with starch-fillers or with gelatin coatings. If the pill is something
> unflavored, that usually is OK. If the pill is something you need to
> take (blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, antibiotics) that's fine too.
> Many rabbis don't worry about it at all - unflavored pills are nonfoods,
> so food regulations (like being kosher) don't apply to them.
Is there a technical (for the purpose of kashrut) definition of "flavor"?
--
Avram Grumer | av...@grumer.org | http://www.PigsAndFishes.org
Someone set up us my cake out in the rain.
Dorothy J Heydt
David Joseph Greenbaum <dj...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>I dunno about that. The idea, basically, is to remember our
>ancestors' discomfort in the desert by eating hard-tack. When people
>try really hard to find substitutes that approximate non-hard-tacky
>things, they're really losing the point of the holiday. Why keep Pesach
>if you're going to spend it eating extruded matzoh meal loaf?
Yes, I understand that part. "Commemorate the night when we had
to eat and run out of Egypt."
I went to a seder once. It was very interesting. This was back
when the University of California still had its spring break over
the week before Easter (Holy Week, we call it), and it was also a
year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
coincide. The University's branch of Hillel House held a seder
for those Jewish students who couldn't manage to get home for
Passover which is, I understand, a very family-oriented event.
They invited the students from the local Newman Hall to come and
participate. It's been a long time, and all I really remember
was chicken-and-matzoh-ball soup, yummy, gefilte fish, way too
spicy, and nothing to drink but little cups of wine. But it was
a nice experience, not the least because we were able to do it.
Dorothy J Heydt
Debra Fran Baker <dfb...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>(I do comprehend, vaguely, that it's not a question of what
>>something *is* so much as how it is interpreted by the rabbi of
>>your choice.)
>
>Actually...um. What something is is important. No rabbi can define
>something as permissible that is not. They can do the opposite, which is
>why I'm glad our rabbi doesn't try to inflict his dietery choices on us -
>he's Chasidic and follows stringencies we don't.
I'm sorry, what I meant was that things not covered by the
original documentation are subject to interpretation. E.g.,
baking powder did not exist till about 1840 C.E., and when it was
invented somebody had to decide how to classify it. I'm thinking
in particular of an anecdote about Richard Feynman meeting a
group of rabbinical students and somehow the discussion got
around to elevators, and the students explained how they couldn't
ride in an elevator on the Sabbath because they were forbidden to
start a fire, and the elevator ran on electricity, which was the
same as fire, and Feynman tried to explain the electricity was
nothing like fire. But this cut no ice with the students,
because for their purposes electricity had been defined as a form
of fire.
I think I was also thinking of the one time I went to New York,
and saw a very Orthodox-looking gentleman, black clothing, hat,
sideburns, reading his little book from right-to-left, and all...
riding on the subway on a Saturday. I asked on this very group,
"Shouldn't he have avoided doing that?" and the answer was
basically that it depended on who his rabbi was.
But it's entirely possible that I misunderstood then and I'm
misunderstanding now, and I await correction.
Jonathan J. Baker
>In article <9aif1d$76a$1...@panix6.panix.com>, jjb...@panix.com (Jonathan J.
>Baker) wrote:
>> Makes perfect sense to me. Most pills are K-P, but some have problems
>> with starch-fillers or with gelatin coatings. If the pill is something
>> unflavored, that usually is OK. If the pill is something you need to
>> take (blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, antibiotics) that's fine too.
>> Many rabbis don't worry about it at all - unflavored pills are nonfoods,
>> so food regulations (like being kosher) don't apply to them.
>Is there a technical (for the purpose of kashrut) definition of "flavor"?
Good question. I really don't know. But in practice, if your antacid
pills taste like chalk, they're unflavored. My iron supplement is
vaguely chocolate-flavored. Normal aspirin is unflavored, childrens
aspirin is flavored.
Jonathan J. Baker
>I'm sorry, what I meant was that things not covered by the
>original documentation are subject to interpretation. E.g.,
>baking powder did not exist till about 1840 C.E., and when it was
>invented somebody had to decide how to classify it. I'm thinking
>in particular of an anecdote about Richard Feynman meeting a
>group of rabbinical students and somehow the discussion got
>around to elevators, and the students explained how they couldn't
>ride in an elevator on the Sabbath because they were forbidden to
>start a fire, and the elevator ran on electricity, which was the
>same as fire, and Feynman tried to explain the electricity was
>nothing like fire. But this cut no ice with the students,
>because for their purposes electricity had been defined as a form
>of fire.
Electricity is one of the hard problems. There is a famous correspondence
between two major rabbis, one who died a few years ago, one who died in the
late '50s - so they were a generation apart. The younger rabbi argued
strenuously that none of the categories of forbidden labor on Sabbath
were really analogous to most electrical phenomena, but the older rabbi
was not convinced. In the end, the younger rabbi said, "None of these
rationales are logical, but the Chazon Ish (the older rabbi) forbade it,
and we have to respect that." So to this day, we are rather limited in
our use of electricity on Sabbath and Festivals. No, it's not logical,
but it works within the internal logic of halacha, which depends on
precedent and precedence almost as much as on logic.
>I think I was also thinking of the one time I went to New York,
>and saw a very Orthodox-looking gentleman, black clothing, hat,
>sideburns, reading his little book from right-to-left, and all...
>riding on the subway on a Saturday. I asked on this very group,
>"Shouldn't he have avoided doing that?" and the answer was
>basically that it depended on who his rabbi was.
Right, also it depends on why he was on the subway. Suppose the
man had to go to a doctor for an essential procedure on Saturday,
and the subway is less problematic from a Sabbath-energy-expenditure
perspective (you don't have those little fires in the cylinders of
the car, the subway goes whether or not you're on it, etc.)
There are reasons.
Dan Kimmel
"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:GBCDu...@kithrup.com...
> I went to a seder once. It was very interesting. This was back
> when the University of California still had its spring break over
> the week before Easter (Holy Week, we call it), and it was also a
> year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
> coincide. The University's branch of Hillel House held a seder
> for those Jewish students who couldn't manage to get home for
> Passover which is, I understand, a very family-oriented event.
> They invited the students from the local Newman Hall to come and
> participate. It's been a long time, and all I really remember
> was chicken-and-matzoh-ball soup, yummy, gefilte fish, way too
> spicy, and nothing to drink but little cups of wine. But it was
> a nice experience, not the least because we were able to do it.
I have heard gefilte fish called many things, but "way too spicy" may be a
first.
Perhaps you're thinking of the horseradish that some people put *on* the
gefilte fish?
David Joseph Greenbaum
inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>You can get kosher-for-passover baking powder.
You can? I understood that baking powder was verboten. And I have
never seen it for sale kosher lepesakh anywhere. Not at any
supermarket, or the Shoprite in Monsey, not Harold's II in Linwood.
My family never had a problem with gebrokts - this is something from
further east, no?
Dorothy J Heydt
Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
>news:GBCDu...@kithrup.com...
>> ... chicken-and-matzoh-ball soup, yummy, gefilte fish, way too
>> spicy, and nothing to drink but little cups of wine.
>
>I have heard gefilte fish called many things, but "way too spicy" may be a
>first.
>
>Perhaps you're thinking of the horseradish that some people put *on* the
>gefilte fish?
Not unless somebody had mixed it in with the fish before molding
the little oval shapes. It was, to my taste, way too spicy.
Maybe I'm just the wrong ethnicity.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <6p9z6.12459$RF1.8...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>Dan Kimmel <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
>>news:GBCDu...@kithrup.com...
>
>>> ... chicken-and-matzoh-ball soup, yummy, gefilte fish, way too
>>> spicy, and nothing to drink but little cups of wine.
>>
>>I have heard gefilte fish called many things, but "way too spicy" may be a
>>first.
>>
>>Perhaps you're thinking of the horseradish that some people put *on* the
>>gefilte fish?
>
>Not unless somebody had mixed it in with the fish before molding
>the little oval shapes. It was, to my taste, way too spicy.
>Maybe I'm just the wrong ethnicity.
Some people put a lot of pepper in it, they do.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Priscilla H Ballou
: I went to a seder once.
[snip]
Years ago (18?) a coworker invited me to her family's home for
Seder. They were not very observant but did their best on Passover. I
had a lot of fun, and I still carry for good luck the silver dollar I and
the others of our generation received as ransom for the afikomen.
Anyway, after doing the whole thing, following in the Haggadah, reciting,
singing, eating, opening doors, etc., it was time for me to go home. As
I'm putting on my coat, my friend's mother turned to me and set me up with
the perfect straight line, "So, do you have any final questions?" To
which I *had* to reply, "Why is this night different from all other
nights?" It was very funny. :-)
Priscilla
--
"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God;
but only he who sees, takes off his shoes. The rest sit round it and
pluck blackberries." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
Janice Gelb
>
>I'm sorry, what I meant was that things not covered by the
>original documentation are subject to interpretation. E.g.,
>baking powder did not exist till about 1840 C.E., and when it was
>invented somebody had to decide how to classify it. I'm thinking
>in particular of an anecdote about Richard Feynman meeting a
>group of rabbinical students and somehow the discussion got
>around to elevators, and the students explained how they couldn't
>ride in an elevator on the Sabbath because they were forbidden to
>start a fire, and the elevator ran on electricity, which was the
>same as fire, and Feynman tried to explain the electricity was
>nothing like fire. But this cut no ice with the students,
>because for their purposes electricity had been defined as a form
>of fire.
>
There is another explanation I've heard for the forbidding
of electricity: you're not allowed to "complete" things on
the Sabbath and turning on an electrical device closes a
circuit.
I've got an article about electricity on the Sabbath if you're
really interested :->
Evelyn C. Leeper
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
> news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
> >
> > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
>
> This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
something about blueberries I don't know?
(Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
Debra Fran Baker
>In a fit of divine composition, jjb...@panix.com (Jonathan J. Baker)
>inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>>You can get kosher-for-passover baking powder.
>You can? I understood that baking powder was verboten. And I have
>never seen it for sale kosher lepesakh anywhere. Not at any
>supermarket, or the Shoprite in Monsey, not Harold's II in Linwood.
I've seen it listed in the various guides for "what is kosher for passover
this year", and I've seen it for sale in Boro Park. I honestly can't
think of what to use it for. Baking *soda* has myriad uses, of course.
>My family never had a problem with gebrokts - this is something from
>further east, no?
This seems to be a yeshivishe/Chasidic thing. Given that I just made a
large pot full of matzo balls, it's clear I have no problems with the
concept of gebrokts, either.
Dan Kimmel
> In article <9ai5bg$29v$1...@ebaynews1.Ebay.Sun.COM>,
> Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
> > news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
> > >
> > > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> > > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
> >
> > This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
>
> I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
> something about blueberries I don't know?
>
> (Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
> native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
No, but my guess is that two of them would be corn and maple sugar.
Alison Hopkins
Evelyn C. Leeper wrote in message <9al81p$2...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>...
>In article <9ai5bg$29v$1...@ebaynews1.Ebay.Sun.COM>,
>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
>> news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
>> >
>> > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
>> > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
>>
>> This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
>
>I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
>something about blueberries I don't know?
>
>(Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
>native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
Maize? Cranberries? Wait, maize is South American. Must be thinks that were
cultivated by Native Americans, she says, muttering....
Ali
Joel Rosenberg
"Dan Kimmel" <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Atqz6.11442$rk4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Birch syrup (yum!), dandelion wine, and half a scad of things from the Boy
Scout camping handbook come to mind -- and I bet the number is much higher
than six.
Alison Hopkins
Joel Rosenberg wrote in message <9alcqs$5oah7$2...@ID-62889.news.dfncis.de>...
I'm betting that dandelions and birches are imports. But, AKICIF.
Ali
Priscilla H Ballou
: "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
: > native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
: No, but my guess is that two of them would be corn and maple sugar.
Cranberries.
Michael J. Lowrey
> (Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
> native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
WHAAA? Unless you are restricting yourself to commercially-farmed stuff
(and even then, I'd challenge it), this is ridiculous.
Let's see: besides corn and maple sugar that Dan Kimmel mentioned:
squashes, cranberries, serviceberries, strawberries, blackberries,
elderberries, butternuts, grapes, gooseberries, passion fruit, poke
salad, sassasafras, persimmons, pawpaw, ginseng, sheep sorrel, sumac,
myriad varieties of beans, pecans, walnuts, cherries, pine nuts,
sunflowers...
I could go on.
--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
Michael J. Lowrey
> I'm betting that dandelions and birches are imports. But, AKICIF.
Dandelions, yes; birch, no.
--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
mixed-blood himself
Janice Gelb
news:9al81p$2...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
> In article <9ai5bg$29v$1...@ebaynews1.Ebay.Sun.COM>,
> Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
> > news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
> > >
> > > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> > > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
> >
> > This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
>
> I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
> something about blueberries I don't know?
>
We'd never picked the pancake mix before and the addition
of blueberries seemed to add to the "you can't live without
this for a week?" and "we can't have corn because it might
look like chometz but we can have blueberry pancakes?"
absurdity of it all.
Richard McAllister
> Maize? Cranberries? Wait, maize is South American.
Maize as we know it is an artificial cross-breed, but nobody knows exactly
where it was first done. The wild plants that went into it (Zea species,
"teosinte") grow wild in Mexico, which counts as North America. By the time
Europeans showed up it was being grown by pretty much every agricultural
society in North, Central, and South America.
--
Rich McAllister <r...@sun.com>
Rat Bastard
I need help. I've been way out of the scene for a very long time, and
I've just recently realized how much I miss it...
I still read SF religiously, but I havent been to con, or a sing, or
any miscellaneous fanac since 1988 or so, and I just dont know how to
start again.
Where is everybody??
Is there a 12 Step program for people who want to edge back into fandom?
Any advice would be mucho appreciated.
Thankee-sai.
Criss
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Mary Kay Kare
"Dan Kimmel" <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
> news:9al81p$2...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
> > In article <9ai5bg$29v$1...@ebaynews1.Ebay.Sun.COM>,
> > Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
> > > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
> > > news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
> > > >
> > > > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
> > > > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
> > >
> > > This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
> >
> > I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
> > something about blueberries I don't know?
> >
> > (Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
> > native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
>
> No, but my guess is that two of them would be corn and maple sugar.
Corn may be South American I'm thinking. I'd say wild rice though.
MKK
--
"Books you've bought and shelved but not yet read emit a gentle, beneficial
radiation, and when you finally do read them they're almost old friends."
--Teresa Nielsen Hayden on RASFF
Kip Williams
>
> How does one go about degafiating?
>
> I need help. I've been way out of the scene for a very long time, and
> I've just recently realized how much I miss it...
>
> I still read SF religiously, but I havent been to con, or a sing, or
> any miscellaneous fanac since 1988 or so, and I just dont know how to
> start again.
>
> Where is everybody??
>
> Is there a 12 Step program for people who want to edge back into fandom?
>
> Any advice would be mucho appreciated.
> Thankee-sai.
> Criss
Congratulations. You have just taken the first step. Okay, maybe
it's not a real forward step, but steps are swell.
Where are you? Minicon is next weekend.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
>In article <Atqz6.11442$rk4.8...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>"Dan Kimmel" <dan.k...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
>> news:9al81p$2...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
>> > In article <9ai5bg$29v$1...@ebaynews1.Ebay.Sun.COM>,
>> > Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>> > > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@jaguar.stc.lucent.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:9ahq80$p...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com:
>> > > >
>> > > > (Janice, what wins the contest this year for "least likely Passover
>> > > > product"? Personally, I'm waiting for Pesadich challah.)
>> > >
>> > > This year's winner is blueberry pancake mix.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure why--I've seen KLP pancake mix for many years now. Is there
>> > something about blueberries I don't know?
>> >
>> > (Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
>> > native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
>>
>> No, but my guess is that two of them would be corn and maple sugar.
>
>Corn may be South American I'm thinking. I'd say wild rice though.
>
I can think of a whole lot more than six edible plant products
native to North America without trying. Nopales, prickly pear,
acorns, blueberries, cranberries, maple syrup, chokecherries,
crabapples, yucca-the-yucca and not yucca-the-root, prairie
turnips, various plums, pawpaws, miner's lettuce, wild onions, and
I guess after this I have to start trying -- how many was that?
fourteen.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
the point is well taken -- and you thought of more plants than me
-- but squashes, beans, and passionfruit come from South America.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
<r...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
Biogeographically, Mexico isn't North America. I used to be
frustrated and annoyed that flora and fauna books "of North
America" stopped at about the Sonora desert, and then I read a
biogeography textbook and discovered that, in fact, the flora and
fauna of North America shades into that of South America in
Northern Mexico, mostly. The shading zone spreads from Mexico
through Texas, and most of the lines get drawn south of the Rio
Grande (Bravo).
The great big crop plants seem to have mostly come from Mexico and
Peru, but "only six edible plant products" is a pretty far reach.
People were eating pretty well before they adapted those big crop
plants to more northerly climates, and it's being argued more and
more that certain foraging economies were really more
horticultural in nature when you get down to it: that the people
tended the oak parkland of California, for example, like people
tend small farms.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Dave Weingart
>Let's see: besides corn and maple sugar that Dan Kimmel mentioned:
>
>squashes, cranberries, serviceberries, strawberries, blackberries,
>elderberries, butternuts, grapes, gooseberries, passion fruit, poke
>salad, sassasafras, persimmons, pawpaw, ginseng, sheep sorrel, sumac,
>myriad varieties of beans, pecans, walnuts, cherries, pine nuts,
>sunflowers...
Potatoes?
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK "They reached for tomorrow, but tomorrow's
mailto:phyd...@liii.com more of the same. They reached for
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux tomorrow, but tomorrow never came."
ICQ 57055207 -- Berlin, "Masquerade"
Dorothy J Heydt
Evelyn C. Leeper <ele...@lucent.com> wrote:
>
>(Did you know that blueberries are one of only six edible plant products
>native to North America? Can you name the other five?)
There's more than that, I think. Even counting the dozens of
varieties of edible beans as one. Corn, tomatoes, potatoes,
salmonberries and all their cousins, assorted squashes....
Marilee J. Layman
C Invid
Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >Congratulations. You have just taken the first step. Okay, maybe
> >it's not a real forward step, but steps are swell.
Well, I know I have a problem, and knowing is half the battle...
> >
> >Where are you? Minicon is next weekend.
I'm in NYC, but I have familial whatnot to attend to next weekend
(Easter and all).
>
> Yaaaaay!
Was that for me or for Minicon?
Criss (again inhaling the fumes of institutionalized weirdness one
whiff at a time)
Alison Hopkins
Dave Weingart wrote in message <9am950$eja$1...@cedar.ggn.net>...
>One day in Teletubbyland, "Michael J. Lowrey" <oran...@uwm.edu> said:
>>Let's see: besides corn and maple sugar that Dan Kimmel mentioned:
>>
>>squashes, cranberries, serviceberries, strawberries, blackberries,
>>elderberries, butternuts, grapes, gooseberries, passion fruit, poke
>>salad, sassasafras, persimmons, pawpaw, ginseng, sheep sorrel, sumac,
>>myriad varieties of beans, pecans, walnuts, cherries, pine nuts,
>>sunflowers...
>
>Potatoes?
South American, surely? And elderberries, blackberries, grapes,
strawberries, gooseberries, walnuts, and some of the others originated in
Europe or Asia, methinks.
Ali
Irv Koch
> How does one go about degafiating?
>
> I need help. I've been way out of the scene for a very long time, and
> I've just recently realized how much I miss it...
You just did it. Jump in, anywhere.
> I still read SF religiously, but I havent been to con, or a sing, or
> any miscellaneous fanac since 1988 or so, and I just dont know how to
> start again.
The one caution that I advise is to beware that things have changed in
13 years and done so in ways that might not be obvious.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4242/sf_door.html
> Where is everybody??
Here. Other newsgroups. E-lists. Cons. Clubs. LOTS more house filk
(I think you'll want to wander over to rec.music.filk) and filk cons.
There are a growing number of e-zines as well as hybrids (e and paper)
but not a lot of "straight paper" except for a few APAs. LARP and other
game based activity.
> Is there a 12 Step program for people who want to edge back into fandom?
There are several/many (good) "gateway" web sites, one of which is:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4242/sf_door.html
Yo wellcome,
Irv
Irv Koch
<snip>
> I'm in NYC, but I have familial whatnot to attend to next weekend
Oh. In that case:
http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/SFRG/
and
http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/Reference/fandom/conlist/cons-bydate.html
should help.
Kip Williams
>
> In article <i7btctcscoqa3554f...@4ax.com>, Marilee J.
> Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >Congratulations. You have just taken the first step. Okay, maybe
> > >it's not a real forward step, but steps are swell.
>
> Well, I know I have a problem, and knowing is half the battle...
At first I thought you said "half the bottle," and I said to myself,
yes, you do seem to know about 12-step programs!
Kip Williams
Crunchberries. Booberries. Frankenberries.
Any fruit that grows in the form of roll-ups.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Saunders) wrote:
>On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:44:43 +0100,
>Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> scripsit:
>>Dave Weingart wrote in message <9am950$eja$1...@cedar.ggn.net>...
>>>Potatoes?
>>
>>South American, surely?
>
>Yes.
>
>>And elderberries, blackberries, grapes, strawberries, gooseberries,
>>walnuts, and some of the others originated in Europe or Asia,
>>methinks.
>
>Native walnuts; native grapes and blackberries (you're ahead on grapes
>and behind on blackberries), don't know about straw and goose berries,
>and we've got a whack of boreal berries that aren't anywhere else.
>
There are native blackberries and native raspberries too. There
are strawberries native to various places, but they're different
from what we eat now. There are gooseberries/currants (the
classification of which is kind of capricious) native to the West,
anyway.
There are several kinds of native nuts, a few walnuts, black
walnuts, pecans and some other things like pecans that didn't
become commercial, butternuts, hickory nuts, various kinds of
hazel nuts.
When Europeans arrived they were struck by the general health of
the populations they saw. Part of this is because the native pool
of disease was less taxing (and they took a beating for that,
shortly), and part of this was because the various social
structures in North America excluding Mexico did not involve
heavy expropriation of the lower classes, but part of this is
because there was a varied and healthy diet available to the
people here -- even in the desert habitats.
Lucy Kemnitzer
David Dyer-Bennet
> I can think of a whole lot more than six edible plant products
> native to North America without trying. Nopales, prickly pear,
> acorns, blueberries, cranberries, maple syrup, chokecherries,
> crabapples, yucca-the-yucca and not yucca-the-root, prairie
> turnips, various plums, pawpaws, miner's lettuce, wild onions, and
> I guess after this I have to start trying -- how many was that?
> fourteen.
And didn't include *any* of the ones I'd think of. Though while all
of these are now common in North America, I'm not sure they're all
*native* here (I know they're new-world, but not positive they weren't
imported north). Potatoes, corn, peppers, for a start. How many
dinners don't have one of those in them? (I know, a fair number; but
they feature in a remarkably large number of recipes, and not just
North American).
--
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd...@dd-b.net
SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
Mary Kay Kare
Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
> South American, surely? And elderberries, blackberries, grapes,
> strawberries, gooseberries, walnuts, and some of the others originated in
> Europe or Asia, methinks.
>
Oh. What about pecans?
Alison Hopkins
Graydon Saunders wrote in message ...
>>
>>South American, surely?
>
>Yes.
>
>>walnuts, and some of the others originated in Europe or Asia,
>>methinks.
>
>and behind on blackberries), don't know about straw and goose berries,
>and we've got a whack of boreal berries that aren't anywhere else.
>
Yes, I thought you had all sorts of fine berries. In what way behind and
ahead?
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Mary Kay Kare wrote in message ...
>In article <3acecb2f$0$15031$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com>, "Alison
>Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> South American, surely? And elderberries, blackberries, grapes,
>> strawberries, gooseberries, walnuts, and some of the others originated in
>> Europe or Asia, methinks.
>>
>Oh. What about pecans?
Dunno. Someone?
Ali
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>In article <i7btctcscoqa3554f...@4ax.com>, Marilee J.
>Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>> >
>> >Congratulations. You have just taken the first step. Okay, maybe
>> >it's not a real forward step, but steps are swell.
>
>Well, I know I have a problem, and knowing is half the battle...
>
>> >
>> >Where are you? Minicon is next weekend.
>
>I'm in NYC, but I have familial whatnot to attend to next weekend
>(Easter and all).
>
>>
>> Yaaaaay!
>
>Was that for me or for Minicon?
>
>Criss (again inhaling the fumes of institutionalized weirdness one
>whiff at a time)
I don't know you, so it has to be for Minicon. Then again, if you
came to Minicon, I might meet you and then it might be for you.
C Invid
wrote:
>> Well, I know I have a problem, and knowing is half the battle...
>
> At first I thought you said "half the bottle," and I said to myself,
> yes, you do seem to know about 12-step programs!
That's an issue for another newsgroup.
yoikes and away...
criss
David Goldfarb
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>it was also a
>year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
>coincide.
Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
after the spring equinox?
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "You can't do only one thing."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
aste...@slip.net | -- John W. Campbell, Jr.
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
Priscilla H. Ballou
(David Goldfarb) wrote:
> In article <GBCDu...@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >it was also a
> >year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
> >coincide.
>
> Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
> after the spring equinox?
No, Passover's dates are calculated from the Jewish calendar (the
somethingth day of the month of xyz), IIRC. But you have the Easter
algorithm correct (1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal
equinox).
Priscilla
--
"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God;
but only he who sees, takes off his shoes. The rest sit round it and
pluck blackberries." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
Priscilla H. Ballou
> In article <9aoj7r$a3o$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>, gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
> (David Goldfarb) wrote:
>
> > In article <GBCDu...@kithrup.com>,
> > Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > >it was also a
> > >year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
> > >coincide.
> >
> > Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
> > after the spring equinox?
>
> No, Passover's dates are calculated from the Jewish calendar (the
> somethingth day of the month of xyz), IIRC. But you have the Easter
> algorithm correct (1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal
> equinox).
Following up on myself, from
http://www.everythingjewish.com/Pesach/Pesach_laws.htm
I managed to distill that Passover starts within the first week of the
month of Nissan, but I can't easily find the exact way to figure it out
-- or to figure out when Nissan starts.
Tomorrow or later there will be some Jews back in the newsgroup who can
answer this one better than I.
In the meantime, I wish them all Happy Passover in absentia! It's
funny, but all evening I've been aware in some way of the houses around
me where people are gathered at Seder tables. Maybe not next door, but
in every direction. It's awesome and moving.
Dorothy J Heydt
David Goldfarb <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>In article <GBCDu...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>it was also a
>>year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
>>coincide.
>
>Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
>after the spring equinox?
Yes, but using a slightly different algorithm.
Lucy Kemnitzer
North America, just like walnuts, black walnuts, native hazelnuts,
butternuts, hickory nuts, pine nuts, and some other nuts I'm not
thinking of at the moment. Yes, walnuts come from Asia. They
_also_ are native to North America.
and there are native elderberries, blackberries, raspberries,
grapes, strawberries, gooseberries, crabapples, plums, and some
other things I'm not thinking of at the moment.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Alison Hopkins
Graydon Saunders wrote in message ...
>Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> scripsit:
>>Graydon Saunders wrote in message ...
>>>and behind on blackberries), don't know about straw and goose berries,
>>>and we've got a whack of boreal berries that aren't anywhere else.
>>
>>Yes, I thought you had all sorts of fine berries. In what way behind and
>>ahead?
>
>*native* grapes -- are nicer; NorAm blackberries are nicer.
>
Do you know, I don't think I've eaten NorAm blackberries over there. I love
blackberries, but not the ones sold in supermarkets. The ones I like are
those unnamed varieties that grow on allotments, or in my mother's garden.
Great fat sweet scented things, that stain your hands, eaten straight from
the bush.
Ali
Mary Kay Kare
"Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
> In the meantime, I wish them all Happy Passover in absentia! It's
> funny, but all evening I've been aware in some way of the houses around
> me where people are gathered at Seder tables. Maybe not next door, but
> in every direction. It's awesome and moving.
>
I was having one of those not fit company for man nor beast yesterday so I
cried off going to Susan's (Jordin's sister) seder. Wouldn't you know
it? A frequently mentioned personality on RASFF showed up. So I missed a
chance to meet the famed Whit Diffie.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Saunders) wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 10:04:29 +0100,
>Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> scripsit:
>>Graydon Saunders wrote in message ...
>>>Eurasian grapes -- although I have no idea about the rootstock
>>>*native* grapes -- are nicer; NorAm blackberries are nicer.
>>
>>Do you know, I don't think I've eaten NorAm blackberries over there.
>
>I should be very surprised if you had; so far as I know, they're not
>farmed.
They are in Oregon and California, at least, and sold in
farmstands, supermarkets, and frozen too. You can also buy
blackberry juice.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Kate Schaefer
news:3ad0d7a3...@enews.newsguy.com...
But the huge blackberries are not native to North America; they are
Himalayan. Mmmm. Let's get to July and August, but let's go through
strawberry and cherry season on the way.
Lucy Kemnitzer
The "himalayan" blackberry. notorious weed of the Northwest, is
actually from Armenia.
The commercial blackberries of California at least are something
else. I can't find a family tree for them, but I do believe they
are developed from a mix of North American and Eurasian forebears,
like a lot of other things. I could give you a really garbled
version of the Loganberry, which is partly blackberry, but it
wouldn't help at all. Now I'm curious, and frustrated: google is
failing me.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Michael J. Lowrey
> Rat Bastard wrote:
> > How does one go about degafiating?
> >
> > I need help. I've been way out of the scene for a very long time, and
> > I've just recently realized how much I miss it...
> There are a growing number of e-zines as well as hybrids (e and paper)
> but not a lot of "straight paper" except for a few APAs.
There are still a fair number of paper fanzines: GNARLY GNEWS, TWINK,
MIMOSA, BARMAID, STET, my own VOJO DE VIVO, BANANA WINGS, PLOKTA, THIS
HERE..., QUASIQUOTE, TORTOISE, and others.
--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
issue #2 of VOJO DE VIVO is out!
Michael J. Lowrey
> the point is well taken -- and you thought of more plants than me
> -- but squashes, beans, and passionfruit come from South America.
By "passionfruit" I mean the fruit of the _passiflora robusta_, which is
native to North America. My momma, who called them "wild apricots,"
introduced them to me in my childhood, picked wild out of the fields
back home in West Tennessee. (It is through her that my Cherokee
ancestry comes.) They are vaguely analogous to a pomegranate.
Janice Gelb
>In article <9aoj7r$a3o$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>, gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
>(David Goldfarb) wrote:
>
>> In article <GBCDu...@kithrup.com>,
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> >it was also a
>> >year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
>> >coincide.
>>
>> Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
>> after the spring equinox?
>
>No, Passover's dates are calculated from the Jewish calendar (the
>somethingth day of the month of xyz), IIRC. But you have the Easter
>algorithm correct (1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal
>equinox).
>
Because the Jewish calendar is lunar, the 15 of Nisan,
when Passover starts, usually falls near Easter. However,
there are rare years when they do not coincide. (Meaning that
someday I might actually be able to attend an Eastercon!)
*****************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
The thing about having been around as long as I have is that you
can't fit your hearing aid over your earring. - Quincy Jones
Dorothy J Heydt
Except when you eat a pomegranate you have to pick the membrane
away from the seeds before eating them. The passionfruit seeds
are held together by a sort of gel which you eat with the seeds,
meaning you can just scoop out the inside of the passionfruit
with a spoon, rather like a guava.
Alison Hopkins
Graydon Saunders wrote in message ...
>>>*native* grapes -- are nicer; NorAm blackberries are nicer.
>>
>>Do you know, I don't think I've eaten NorAm blackberries over there.
>
>farmed.
>
>>I like are those unnamed varieties that grow on allotments, or in my
>>mother's garden. Great fat sweet scented things, that stain your
>>hands, eaten straight from the bush.
>
>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
>found them all first.
I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how it
relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
Al
David Joseph Greenbaum
inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>>The ones I remember are little tiny round things, berries, rather than
>>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
>>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
>>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
>>found them all first.
>
>I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how it
>relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
I know them as "black caps."
Dave G.
--
Schöner, grüner mond von Alabama, leuchte uns!
Denn wir haben heute hier
Unterm Hemde Geldpapier
Fur ein grosses Lachen deines grossen, dummen Munds. -- Bertolt Brecht
David Joseph Greenbaum
in fleeting electrons:
>>The ones I remember are little tiny round things, berries, rather than
>>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
>>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
>>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
>>found them all first.
>
>I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how it
>relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
Rubus occidentalis
Jeffrey L. Copeland
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>>No, Passover's dates are calculated from the Jewish calendar (the
>>somethingth day of the month of xyz), IIRC. But you have the Easter
>>algorithm correct (1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal
>>equinox).
>>
>
>Because the Jewish calendar is lunar, the 15 of Nisan,
>when Passover starts, usually falls near Easter. However,
>there are rare years when they do not coincide. (Meaning that
>someday I might actually be able to attend an Eastercon!)
If you think about it, if 1st Nisan is a new moon, 15 Nisan is a full
moon, so Easter and Passover should be either the same week --- or in some
cases (when Janice can attend Eastercon) about a month apart. Easter and
Passover shouldn't exactly coincide, because the Council of Nicea said
"1st Sunday after..." rather than "on or after" to prevent it. Of course,
the approximations used by both calendars -- note Kepler's declaration
that "Easter is a feast, not a planet" -- make it possible for them to
coincide anyway.
One of course could figure out how often Easter and Passover coincide and
how often they're a month apart, but I have more urgent considerations
this morning, so I leave it as an exercise for the reader.
Ninni Pettersson
> In a fit of divine composition, "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com>
> inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>
> >>The ones I remember are little tiny round things, berries, rather than
> >>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
> >>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
> >>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
> >>found them all first.
> >
> >I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how it
> >relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
>
> Rubus occidentalis
So it is Rubus occidentalis. I wondered if it were when I was
perusing the Rubus tribe* and found that this was called 'black
raspberry' in Swedish. I was going to ask here tonight. Now I don't have
to. Thank you!
* I was looking in my latest gloat item and also one of my few impulse
buys: An illustrated garden encyclopedia containing over 10 000 plants.
More than a thousand pages and *quite* heavy. Makes me really glad I
invested in a reading table when my back became worse a few years ago.
/Ninni Pettersson
--
Ninni Pettersson - Stockholm - Sweden
Mail-adress is vidumavi at swipnet dot se
Mary Kay Kare
see_sig...@adress.xx (Ninni Pettersson) wrote:
> David Joseph Greenbaum <dj...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> > In a fit of divine composition, "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com>
> > inscribed in fleeting electrons:
> >
> > >>The ones I remember are little tiny round things, berries, rather than
> > >>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
> > >>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
> > >>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
> > >>found them all first.
> > >
> > >I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how it
> > >relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
> >
> > Rubus occidentalis
>
> So it is Rubus occidentalis. I wondered if it were when I was
> perusing the Rubus tribe* and found that this was called 'black
> raspberry' in Swedish. I was going to ask here tonight. Now I don't have
> to. Thank you!
>
But, but. Black raspberries and blackberries are completely different things.
> * I was looking in my latest gloat item and also one of my few impulse
> buys: An illustrated garden encyclopedia containing over 10 000 plants.
> More than a thousand pages and *quite* heavy. Makes me really glad I
> invested in a reading table when my back became worse a few years ago.
>
Ah, gloating eh? Well, Crown Books is going out of business. There is a
Crown bookstore not 5 miles from our home. Yesterday when I discovered
they were having a huge sale, I called Jordin from my cell phone.
Paperbacks a minimum of 50% off. Hardbacks a minimum of 40% off. Bargain
books a minimum of 70% off. He hurried on over. More than 2 hours later
we staggered out of there with 6 large backs of books for slightly more
than $300. Value of which was between $550 and $600. How's that for a
gloat?
MKK--got those endorphins flowing it did.
Omega
<irv...@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> writes
>
>There are several/many (good) "gateway" web sites, one of which is:
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4242/sf_door.html
>
That looks a great resource site even for long time fans (15 years,
eep!), there were a couple of new URLs there I hadn't come across
before.
--
Omega
FIAWOL
Michael Kozlowski
Mary Kay Kare <ka...@sirius.com> wrote:
>But, but. Black raspberries and blackberries are completely different things.
Speaking of which, do blue raspberries really exist as anything other than
a flavor of popsicle? I've never seen them, if so -- and my grocery store
carries a frightening variety of produce (480 different fruits and
vegetables? Why?).
--
Michael Kozlowski
m...@alumni.cs.wisc.edu
Alison Hopkins
Mary Kay Kare wrote in message ...
>see_sig...@adress.xx (Ninni Pettersson) wrote:
>
>> David Joseph Greenbaum <dj...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > In a fit of divine composition, "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com>
>> > inscribed in fleeting electrons:
>> >
>> > >>The ones I remember are little tiny round things, berries, rather
than
>> > >>raspberry-like, and better than wild blueberries gone just a little
>> > >>too ripe; not sweet, precisely, but strong, strong. And you have to
>> > >>go into the swamp to get them, and be lucky so that the birds haven't
>> > >>found them all first.
>> > >
>> > >I need to know the botanical name of yours, I think, I want to see how
it
>> > >relates to ours. They sound scrummy.
>> >
>> > Rubus occidentalis
>>
>> So it is Rubus occidentalis. I wondered if it were when I was
>> perusing the Rubus tribe* and found that this was called 'black
>> raspberry' in Swedish. I was going to ask here tonight. Now I don't have
>> to. Thank you!
>>
>But, but. Black raspberries and blackberries are completely different
things.
Having done some poking around, our blackberry appears to be rubus
fruticosus, and is apparently classed as a noxious weed in New South Wales.
>
>> * I was looking in my latest gloat item and also one of my few impulse
>> buys: An illustrated garden encyclopaedia containing over 10 000 plants.
>> More than a thousand pages and *quite* heavy. Makes me really glad I
>> invested in a reading table when my back became worse a few years ago.
>>
>Ah, gloating eh? Well, Crown Books is going out of business. There is a
>Crown bookstore not 5 miles from our home. Yesterday when I discovered
>they were having a huge sale, I called Jordin from my cell phone.
>Paperbacks a minimum of 50% off. Hardbacks a minimum of 40% off. Bargain
>books a minimum of 70% off. He hurried on over. More than 2 hours later
>we staggered out of there with 6 large backs of books for slightly more
>than $300. Value of which was between $550 and $600. How's that for a
>gloat?
>
I told this to Dave, and he has gone to bed, whimpering. We'll be in the US
in a few weeks. He Knoweth Of What Consequences a Crown Sale Will Have.
Ali
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> > >it was also a
>> > >year (like this one) when Easter and Passover happened to
>> > >coincide.
>> > Isn't that most years? Aren't they both tied to the first full moon
>> > after the spring equinox?
>> No, Passover's dates are calculated from the Jewish calendar (the
>> somethingth day of the month of xyz), IIRC. But you have the Easter
>> algorithm correct (1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal
>> equinox).
>Following up on myself, from
>http://www.everythingjewish.com/Pesach/Pesach_laws.htm
>I managed to distill that Passover starts within the first week of the
>month of Nissan, but I can't easily find the exact way to figure it out
>-- or to figure out when Nissan starts.
It's on the 15th day of Nissan. Nissan is the first month (or seventh,
depending) of the year. As to how to figure out when it falls in any
given year, there is a complicated algorithm, but the simple algorithm
is to find a 150-year-calendar book or a Jewish calendar program, and
ask it.
We have a complicated system of inserting 7 extra months into each set
of 19 years, every 2nd or 3rd year, as well as one or two extra days
in the Fall, so as to keep the otherwise-lunar calendar in sync with
the seasons.
--
Jonathan Baker | What is the 7th verse of the piut Shir haChodoshim?
jjb...@panix.com | The Nissan Stanza. [1st verse in the orig. ms.]
Web page <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker> Update: Rambam 13 Principles
Mary Kay Kare
Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
> I told this to Dave, and he has gone to bed, whimpering. We'll be in the US
> in a few weeks. He Knoweth Of What Consequences a Crown Sale Will Have.
>
Better hurry. I think it'll be done by the end of the month. Will you be
in the Bay Area anywhere? Lunch? Or Tea? Or Something?
MKK
Deb Geisler
I don't know about blue ones, but I've got some fuzzy green ones in the fridge
right now.
Deb
--
Deborah M. Geisler, Ph.D.
Graduate Program Director
Department of Communication & Journalism
Suffolk University
Boston, MA 02114
Voice: 617.573.8504
Email: dgei...@acad.suffolk.edu
Insanity is my only means of relaxation.
Erik V. Olson
>
>I don't know about blue ones, but I've got some fuzzy green ones in the fridge
>right now.
>
>Deb
>--
>Deborah M. Geisler, Ph.D.
>Graduate Program Director
>Department of Communication & Journalism
A little too much communication there, Deb... ;)
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Alison Hopkins
Erik V. Olson wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 02:39:34 GMT, Deb Geisler <dgei...@acad.suffolk.edu>
wrote:
>
>>
>>I don't know about blue ones, but I've got some fuzzy green ones in the
fridge
>>right now.
>>
>>Deb
>>--
>>Deborah M. Geisler, Ph.D.
>>Graduate Program Director
>>Department of Communication & Journalism
>
>A little too much communication there, Deb... ;)
>
medical research, I thought!
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Mary Kay Kare wrote in message ...
>Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I told this to Dave, and he has gone to bed, whimpering. We'll be in the
US
>> in a few weeks. He Knoweth Of What Consequences a Crown Sale Will Have.
>>
>Better hurry. I think it'll be done by the end of the month. Will you be
>in the Bay Area anywhere? Lunch? Or Tea? Or Something?
>
Love to, but the farthest North is Santa Barbara?
Ali
Kip Williams
>
> Michael Kozlowski wrote:
> >
> > In article <kare-10040...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>,
> > Mary Kay Kare <ka...@sirius.com> wrote:
> >
> > >But, but. Black raspberries and blackberries are completely different things.
> >
> > Speaking of which, do blue raspberries really exist as anything other than
> > a flavor of popsicle? I've never seen them, if so -- and my grocery store
> > carries a frightening variety of produce (480 different fruits and
> > vegetables? Why?).
>
> I don't know about blue ones, but I've got some fuzzy green ones in the fridge
> right now.
Speaking of frightening produce, I was at a local Walgreen's
drugstore, browsing the snack aisles (in a visual sense). They had a
very wide-ranging selection, including some Mexican candies. These
included Limon Siete, some cups with mousse in them, little leche
candies (I wondered if they were like the Japanese "Milky" candies),
and the really scary one, the mango pops. There was one bag left,
and it was not encouraging. The lollipops looked like some ghastly
objects from nature that had gone bad, though the ingredients were
standard things like sugar, another form of sugar, some color, and
maybe more sugar. But they were irregaularly shaped, lumpy, grainy,
and the only colors they showed were brackish brownish black. They
appeared to have melted and run down their own sticks, leaving
grainy, lumpy deposits.
I did, however, purchase a Goo-Goo Cluster, which I shared with my
friend Mike. These seem to be America's oldest candy bar that's
still produced, having been made since 1912. Pity I don't really
care for them all that much, but now I've had one.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Kip Williams
Ah. Chia foods.
Dan Kimmel
"Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9b0355$2aa$1...@panix6.panix.com...
> We have a complicated system of inserting 7 extra months into each set
> of 19 years, every 2nd or 3rd year, as well as one or two extra days
> in the Fall, so as to keep the otherwise-lunar calendar in sync with
> the seasons.
I understand the extra month (of Adar II) and someone even explained to me
how the 19 year formula works, even if I couldn't explain it myself. But
what's this "one or two extra days?"
Dorothy J Heydt
>
>I did, however, purchase a Goo-Goo Cluster, which I shared with my
>friend Mike. These seem to be America's oldest candy bar that's
>still produced, having been made since 1912. Pity I don't really
>care for them all that much, but now I've had one.
The Vermont Country Store sells not only them but many other
old-fashioned candy items hard or impossible to obtain elsewhere.
If anyone is interested I'll post an address. Last I noticed,
they didn't have a website.
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
>
>Speaking of frightening produce, I was at a local Walgreen's
>drugstore, browsing the snack aisles (in a visual sense). They had a
>very wide-ranging selection, including some Mexican candies. These
>included Limon Siete, some cups with mousse in them, little leche
>candies (I wondered if they were like the Japanese "Milky" candies),
>and the really scary one, the mango pops. There was one bag left,
>and it was not encouraging. The lollipops looked like some ghastly
>objects from nature that had gone bad, though the ingredients were
>standard things like sugar, another form of sugar, some color, and
>maybe more sugar. But they were irregaularly shaped, lumpy, grainy,
>and the only colors they showed were brackish brownish black. They
>appeared to have melted and run down their own sticks, leaving
>grainy, lumpy deposits.
Well, Mexican candy. The good thing is that it tends to be made
of food, without a whole hell of a lot of coloring and artificial
gunk. Kids around here carry it around everywhere and eat it all
up yum, especially the chile candy and the ugly mango lollipops.
The stores tend to sell these little variety bags, but you don't
see the kids bringing the brown almond circle things or the leche
candies or the piloncillos to school -- I figure grandma and the
babies are eating those, or something.
Chile candy, however, that's the popular thing -- both the
lollipops which look a lot like the mango ones, and the little
containers of sugar and chile powder that you eat by licking the
powder off a stick (sometimes the stick is made of candy too).
This is not limited to the Hispanic kids.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Evelyn C. Leeper
http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html explains the reasons for
them and how they work.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper, http://www.geocities.com/evelynleeper
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford, 1992
Ed Dravecky III
> Rat Bastard wrote:
> > I still read SF religiously, but I havent been to con, or a
> > sing, or any miscellaneous fanac since 1988 or so, and I just
> > dont know how to start again.
>
> The one caution that I advise is to beware that things have
> changed in 13 years and done so in ways that might not be obvious.
For example, the @ parties can get a *lot* more crowded these days
and the number of fannish websites is _way_ up from 1988.
--
Ed Dravecky III
ed3 at panix dot com "I have no life--just e-mail." -The Norm
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
> In article <3AD446A9...@home.com>, Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >I did, however, purchase a Goo-Goo Cluster, which I shared with my
> >friend Mike. These seem to be America's oldest candy bar that's
> >still produced, having been made since 1912. Pity I don't really
> >care for them all that much, but now I've had one.
>
> The Vermont Country Store sells not only them but many other
> old-fashioned candy items hard or impossible to obtain elsewhere.
> If anyone is interested I'll post an address. Last I noticed,
> they didn't have a website.
>
www.vermontcountrystore.com, from a recent catalog.
73, doug
Dave Weingart
>I told this to Dave, and he has gone to bed, whimpering. We'll be in the US
>in a few weeks. He Knoweth Of What Consequences a Crown Sale Will Have.
I don't suppose you'll be in the NY area? Maybe flying in and out of JFK?
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK "They reached for tomorrow, but tomorrow's
mailto:phyd...@liii.com more of the same. They reached for
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux tomorrow, but tomorrow never came."
ICQ 57055207 -- Berlin, "Masquerade"
Alison Hopkins
Dave Weingart wrote in message <9b25st$8g6$1...@cedar.ggn.net>...
>One day in Teletubbyland, "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> said:
>>I told this to Dave, and he has gone to bed, whimpering. We'll be in the
US
>>in a few weeks. He Knoweth Of What Consequences a Crown Sale Will Have.
>
>I don't suppose you'll be in the NY area? Maybe flying in and out of JFK?
>--
No, sorry, about 3000 miles further west, LA, San Diego and so forth!
Ali