four scenes at the baths
Arnold Zwicky
amount is participant observation) and lots of explicit hot-hot man-man
sex in very plain terms. it's also long, mostly because i'm packaging
four scenes into a single posting (so that there's just one thing to
avoid, if you're into avoiding, instead of four separate things).
scenes 1, 3, and 4 are about a single action, the display of one's
erect penis in public, in the company of other gay men, and what it
might "mean" (to you or them). scene 2 is a digression on *speaking*
(actually, not speaking) during such encounters.]
scene 1, the baths this sunday night, in a video room; there are
carpeted ledges to sit on on three sides of the room, with the video
displays on the fourth. when i enter, there are two young men
displaying their hard dicks, slowly stroking them. both slim,
well-muscled, with long elegant cocks. left-ledge guy has a somewhat
larger cock than center-ledge guy, and he seems to be especially aware
of its drawing power. there are four other guys standing or sitting
in the room, all at respectful distances of these two objects of
desire, all stroking their own cocks as they watch the show. (nobody
looks at the porn videos.) i join them, standing off to one side.
one by one, the watchers (me included) approach one or another of the
jackoff boys, tentatively, offering to take their cocks, in hand or
mouth, but each is gently rebuffed. we are not sufficiently
desirable; only a suitably hot guy merits their dicks.
eventually, two more guys enter. one joins the watchers. the other
moves directly to the left side of left-ledge guy (who looks enough
like him to be his brother, even a twin). he is allowed to sit down
next to left-ledge guy while each slowly jacks off on his own. they
watch each other's dicks intently. eventually the newcomer reaches
over, is allowed to stroke his partner's thigh, then to take his cock
in hand - at which point, his partner reciprocates. now each is
masturbating the other, each focused on the other guy's dick.
still another man enters, stands for a moment of appreciation at the
scene, and makes his move towards center-ledge guy, to sit on his
right. the new man could be a brother of center-ledge guy, but
probably not a twin, since he's blonder. (this like-attracts-like
thing is very noticeable at the baths, and indeed outside them. by no
means invariable, but especially strong for the younger anglo guys, in
my experience.) this pair now performs exactly the same routine that
the pair on the left had gone through, and they end up masturbating
each other.
i move close to the new center guy, offer myself as a third - a not
uncommon play at this point - but i don't suit, or they just don't
want a third, so i slide back a bit, to stay outside their personal
zone, but close enough so i can observe closely (and occasionally
steal a glance at the other couple). it's quite thrilling; i'm
leaking pre-cum like crazy. (some rather large number of watchers are
beating off, at different speeds and rhythms, in different styles, all
with their attention fixed on one or another of the cock couples.
both cock couples are jacking each other slowly, breathing deeply,
the muscles of their bodies lightly tensed. somehow it becomes clear
that the pairs are not actually reciprocal, that the original guy is
being served by the newcomer. the mutual jack-off merely establishes
willingness to enter into further sexual relations.
what would normally happen at this point, what i think all of us
watchers expected to happen at this point, is that the server would
lean over and start sucking his partner hungrily. instead, the guy
being served removed his hand from his cock, and his server took it
into his, so that each server had his own cock in one hand and his
man's in the other. i don't know which couple went first, but in
little time they were both doing the same performance.
which went on for quite a long time. ten, fifteen minutes, on top
of the ten or fifteen that had gone before. this was not quick
gratification. it was certainly a show. these guys could easily have
found more private places to get off, but they chose to do it here,
with a crowd of men to get off on them (not that any of the watchers
actually came; that's incredibly rare, in my experience).
eventually, the face of the server i was sitting next to contorted,
he gave a gasp, and shot a considerable load onto his chest. his
man gave a slight smile and returned his own hand to his cock, letting
his server milk the last drops of cum from his own cock with both
hands, then slowly lick the cum from his fingers, with a sweet
satisfied smile on his face.
within a minute or two the same sequence ran through for the couple
on the left. (my guess is that original left-ledge guy was slightly
pissed that he didn't get his server to come first. but there's no
way to tell. their faces were almost entirely impassive.)
after waiting for their hearts to stop racing, both servers gave
their guys a buddy-pat, put their towels back on, and left for the
showers. the original two exhibitionists continued at their posts,
cocks as straight and hard as ever. possibly they'd already gotten
what they came to the baths for. it's hard to know. how to tell what
they want? do *they* even know?
and then, the spell broken, the watchers dispersed. i don't think
a single man left the room, or even moved, while the show was going
on. in baths time, that's *years*. (mostly, it's men in constant,
impatient, fretful, i-need-it-now, what-am-i-missing-down-the-corridor
motion.)
don't know what happened with the original two cock guys.
scene 2, same night, the steam room (also an entirely public venue,
but you get soaked with sweat and with water from the steam no matter
what you do). note on scene 1: it was all silent. *not a word was
spoken*. even the servers' ejaculatory vocalizing was just gasps, not
actually moans, much less a fervent "oh, fuck!"
now, the *room* wasn't silent, because there were those screens with
fuck films going on, and we had the constant background of their audio
tracks. plenty of moans, ejaculatory shouts, dumb dialogue, and perky
fuck music - but all of it electronic (these were, so far as i paid
attention, top-line porn flicks, by the way). maybe that's what the
videos are *for*, to paper over guys' goddam inability to talk, their
unwillingness to make themselves vulnerable, in public, before other
guys. (i know, they'll suck cock like maniacs in this context, but
still won't *ask* for it, it all has to be non-verbal. something of a
puzzle. there's a line here that i still don't understand.)
in any case, on to the steam room. equally silent, though
occasionally a guy will whisper something in another's ear.
after a while, i came across a guy (40s, stocky, muscled) being served
by a total dickhound young man, someone i'd seen offering himself
without reservation to quite a few guys, and mostly succeeding,
because he was not only cute but also unbelievable *enthusiastic*.
how could you not help out a fellow so much in need and so happy to
serve?
stocky man was happy for a third, so long as i didn't get in the way
of dickhound's work. so i tweaked stocky man's tits, kissed him,
licked his armpits, and generally provided auxiliary services. (to
judge from the smells of his body - this is a very big thing for me -
stocky man smoked, and had been drinking, both negatives. but his
armpits were delicious, and he gave off a nice-guy persona, especially
by trying to please dickhound, so i discounted the negatives.)
after a bit, i did *my* thing, which is talking. i held dickhound's
head in my hands while he was working on stocky man's cock, and said,
"you're a beautiful cocksucker. suck his sweet dick." (very
not-distanced porn language.) dickhound looked up at me with the most
incredibly happy face, so i knew i'd hit something. "ok", i said
to stocky man (in an almost normal voice, quite transgressive for
these circumstances), "talk to him; give him words". and stocky man
did his (distanced-porn-language) best, in a whisper: "take that cock.
eat it, cocksucker." which was, in fact, fine for dickhound,
certainly better than the silent time that had gone before.
after a bit, dickhound was emboldened to ask for something specific he
wanted (i'm sure he'd never have done this without my trigger): "if
you could give me some piss, that would be cool." stocky man, being
(as i had suspected) a basically nice guy, just said "sorry", and fed
his cock back into dickhound's mouth, without missing a beat. (stocky
man appeared to be able to keep a hard-on indefinitely, and to enjoy
that. it's a talent. i don't have it.)
well, dickhound had this really wonderful baritone faggy voice, so i
was glad i'd got him to talk. that made him seem really hot to me, so
i kneeled down and did the *other* variant of a third, the guy who
serves the server. he had a very sweet cock, thick and straight, not
challengingly long. tight cockring. but in fact he was only
half-hard; well, he was serving his man, not himself. i sucked his
sweet dick for a while - told him it was sweet - and enjoyed its
taste, which was exceptionally nice (actually, as far as taste/smell
goes, the winner since i last had sex with jacques; too bad dickhound
and i are not otherwise compatible). then i said, "i'm sorry i don't
have any piss to give you" (i rued having gone to the bathroom right
before this; well, who knew?). he cocked an eyebrow in his own rueful
way, i said, "i hope you find what you're looking for", and he gave me
a big smile, kissed me, and said thank-you. i released him to service
on stocky man's dick.
i'm pretty sure stocky man was on his way to coming in dickhound's
mouth (or, more likely, near it). i hope so, for both of them.
dickhound, if you're reading this, call me. we could at least be
girlfriends. you're a really hot guy, and i liked you. (participant
observers aren't supposed to say things like this, i know.)
scene 3. same baths, but sunday after thanksgiving. the first
approach into this territory for five years. i am *starved* for the
touch, the smell, the kiss of a man. oh, jesus.
so i do the run of the rooms, where (mostly) guys offer their dicks,
and it is a total, multiple, disaster. i'm too old, too flabby,
with too small a dick, whatever. who knows? i stop by the door,
they shake their heads slightly, or they cover their dicks, or they
even say something negative ("sorry", "not tonight, man", or the
ever-useful "i'm just resting"). i go on into the smaller video room
(not the site of scene 1), and there's a ledge with two guys on it.
on the left, a guy with his privates covered by a towel, a guy whose
connection with the scene around him is totally opaque (and who soon
disappears from my awareness).
the other guy is a big fellow, in strikingly good shape. he's sitting
there with his legs spread and his wonderful dick on display (remember
that this is what this posting is "about"). what makes his dick so
wonderful (for me) is that it's just right in proportion to the rest
of him.
but, i think, this is hopeless. this is just another step down the
humiliation trail, after all those guys who shook their heads or
covered their dicks. on the other hand, nothing ventured, nothing
gained; it's not like i could be *further* humiliated. so i do the
gentle will-you-take-me-in approach. i step up, put my hand on his
leg, nothing aggressive.
and he opens his legs up a bit, smiles at me. me, this silly old
guy. i lean forward, take his dick in my mouth (oh god! it's been
years! the feel, the smell, the taste, i just want to cry with
happiness.). and it is very easy, very nice. his hand on the back
of my head, gently. (why did he choose me?) i work it in several
ways, remembering how it goes. and it's all so sweet.
part of me is thinking, hey, this guy could have *anyone*. he's
getting off on displaying, and i'm his partner for the moment, but
how did i get here? (i wonder about the guy two feet away, who just
watches. in seconds, he disappears from my perceptions, along with
anyone else who wanders in or out of this space, and i assume there
were many.)
after a while, i shift down to his balls, and he gives little gasps
of pleasure. i go back on his dick, reach up and play with his
nipples, at first lightly, then quite aggressively, and i can feel
him gasp with pain/pleasure at that.
i stroke his asshole lightly, then press piston-like against it and he
loves that.
back to his dick. and he leans back, puts his hands behind his head
and offers me his armpits. which i totally enjoy, getting him wet
with my spit and getting his smell all over my face.
then he smiles and opens his mouth, offering me a kiss. and we kiss
like crazed monkeys, for a very long time. oh fuckin' christ. (i
think it was this man's kissing that bruised the base of my tongue.
a very small sacrifice for enormous pleasure - and not even anything
i noticed at the time.)
now, he has no interest at all in my cock, so far as i can tell.
doesn't go for it, doesn't seem to care whether *i* go for it. (like
dickhound's cock in the previous scene, it's only half-hard all the
way through; hey, that's not what this is about.) but he is just the
most wonderfully, abandoned, *queer* guy around. and he wants me!
(sometimes i want to say to people: being a fag is all about cock.
being a fag has nothing to do with cock. they're both totally
true. i'm a fag because i want jacques to be reconstituted and
kiss me like a demon, and smell like jacques, and have the body with
the parts i can touch. i'm also a fag because i want him to fuck
my ass relentlessly, and because i want to fuck his amazingly sweet face.
oh. my. god.)
but, back to our main feature. arnold is doing wonderful things to a
guy he would normally have assumed would blow him off, so to speak, on
the assumption that he, arnold, is an unattractive old troll. we are
*both*, nevertheless, having a fine time. it *looks* non-reciprocal,
on the dick-exchange front. but, hey, the tit stuff, the asshole
stuff, all those kisses, what does *that* mean?
i don't know. i do know that i could not possibly have imagined a
better man to come back to gay sex with than this one.
when i could sense his pulse rate rising, he pulled back from me,
saying he needed to take a break. maybe i was #2 or #3 (maybe the guy
next to us was the cocksucker before me, i don't know), maybe there
were many more who worshiped his dick after me, i don't care. this
was *just fine*. i don't even know if he gave his load to any of
these guys, or just got off at being so wonderfully desirable,
the thing is, he *was* wonderfully desirable, and in a different was
from the guys in scene #1. he was, in a sense, 100% available
emotionally.
but no words.
scene 4, earlier visit to the baths, in the steam room. you go in,
and there are roughly half sellers (displaying their cocks or stroking
them theough their towels) and half buyers (looking for dick). the
thing is, the sellers want the perfect buyers, and they're very, very
picky.
nothing at all happens for the longest time.
on this occasion, a fellow i'll call unavailable guy was displaying
himself in the steam room. absolutely everyone wanted to suck his
dick, and nobody would do (for him). he was very cute, young, slim,
muscular, with an astonishingly big dick, which is to say, every
faggot's dream suck. he exposed, displayed, himself in one location
after another, but fended off every approach. if guys got too close,
he'd move to a new location.
eventually, i found the right distance for staring at him. suited
me, suited him. he stroked that big dick, very very slowly, and
stared at it like it was all he had.
ok, what's going on here? sort of obviously, unavailable guy is
getting off on being desired by everyone (i think that everyone
did in fact approach him, and all of us were rejected).
but then...
this was in the steam room, guys were milling around, eventually
there were some connections, a couple here, three there...
and then the match hit the gasoline, and almost everyone gave up
their expectations. suddenly, everything was available.
unavailable guy *got up* on a ledge and offered his dick,
unconditionally, to anyone who would take it. immediately, two
guys began sharing it. i was stroking the ass of one of these guys
when joey, sweet joey, appeared in front of me, kissed me full
out, and invited me to his room, and then i've told that story.
so, a guy pulls out his dick for other guys, what does that mean?
apparently, a lot of different things.
dick thirsty
Ken Rudolph
> [the usual warnings: this is full of me-me-me (though a certain
> amount is participant observation) and lots of explicit hot-hot man-man
> sex in very plain terms. it's also long, mostly because i'm packaging
> four scenes into a single posting (so that there's just one thing to
> avoid, if you're into avoiding, instead of four separate things).
> scenes 1, 3, and 4 are about a single action, the display of one's
> erect penis in public, in the company of other gay men, and what it
> might "mean" (to you or them). scene 2 is a digression on *speaking*
> (actually, not speaking) during such encounters.]
Ah, I see what you're doing here: a kind of treatise into the
linguistics of the verbal and especially non-verbal communications
in the sex rooms at the baths. Very scholarly. I've heard of
publish or perish; but soc.motss as academic journal? Yes, I see
it all now.
It has been years since I've gone to the baths... or for that
matter even one of those cruising bars in which the undercurrents
and non-verbal communications happening everywhere in the room are
simply deafening. It's long past due for some scholar to observe
and annotate an objective taxonomy of the unspoken language in
these situations. I suppose it is inevitable that it also comes
off as a kind of porn. Is academia ready for this kind of scholarship?
--
--Ken Rudolph
JEC
> [the usual warnings: this is full of me-me-me (though a certain
[cuts]
I don't find it as me-me-me as you may think, Arnold. I find your
articles about your encounters and relationships with men to be about
us-us-us in a way that much writing about gay men misses for me.
> scene 1, the baths this sunday night, in a video room; there are
> carpeted ledges to sit on on three sides of the room, with the video
> displays on the fourth. when i enter, there are two young men
> displaying their hard dicks, slowly stroking them.
It's been decades since I've been to the bath, but there was a period
of several years when I did go to the St. Mark's, the Everard and the
Continental...and perhaps my fave, the Penn-Post. Though I'm used to
the negative comments about the anonymity, the lack of talk about
Great Books, etc. etc. at the baths and how awful that is supposed to
be, I found that ritual behaviour very powerful, and simply one of
many patterns of male relating.
> [about the silence]
Your descriptions the elaborate "procedures" keep bringing up
spontaneous images of church services. I'm thinking of the Orthodox,
but especially of the Coptic that I've attended after many decades
since moving to the East....the complexity of the gestures and
movements of the celebrants, the
slow unfolding of it all, the darkness and closeness, the rapt
congregation, the interaction of the congregants (it's not like the
Latin mass.)
I can remember having sex with a guy one night at a party while other
guys gathered around the bed....we were all stoned and it seemed like
a sacred ceremony, and it went on and on. Not a word. The music
playing was Schutz's "Seven Last Words."
I've deleted your comment about like being attracted to like. I was
dark-haired with light eyes and very pale skin, and the people who
used to come on to me were more often Hispanic, Italian or Black.
Other guys with Irish/British appearance seemed to have no interest.
However, having grown up with dark Sicilian people and thinking they
were extremely hot it may be that I just gave of very quick signs that
dark people picked up on.
An enjoyable article.
Jack
Arnold Zwicky
<ke...@attbi.com> comments on my participant observation:
>Ah, I see what you're doing here: a kind of treatise into the
>linguistics of the verbal and especially non-verbal communications
>in the sex rooms at the baths. Very scholarly. I've heard of
>publish or perish; but soc.motss as academic journal? Yes, I see it
>all now.
heh heh. in a way, this posting was a continuation of my previous
ones on sexual pleasure, but now focused on other men's feelings and
behaviors, not so much on mine.
soc.motss is one of the few places i think i *could* put this material
out. (i was going to say "disseminate". on second thought, maybe "put
out" is still a bit too vivid in its associations.) it's certainly
not academic writing, though it has some academic vocabulary and it's
analytical. the closest thing i know is ethnographic writing in which
the anthropologist's personal involvement in the events being
described is foregrounded, rather than being (as is usually the case)
elided. many people find such personal ethnography uncomfortable, and
they judge it to be "unscientific". i myself prefer to see the
personal stuff (in reporting as well as ethnography); for one thing,
it gives me a better chance to see how the writer's beliefs, biases,
and tastes worked in the way some material was selected for
publication (and some left out, or possibly not even noticed) and in
the viewpoint taken in the description.
>It has been years since I've gone to the baths... or for that
>matter even one of those cruising bars in which the undercurrents
>and non-verbal communications happening everywhere in the room are
>simply deafening. It's long past due for some scholar to observe
>and annotate an objective taxonomy of the unspoken language in these
>situations. I suppose it is inevitable that it also comes off as a
>kind of porn. Is academia ready for this kind of scholarship?
i'm not exactly sure it's scholarship - more like intellectually
informed reporting - and i'm certainly sure that academia isn't ready
for it. and, yes, it's a kind of porn, inevitably, because i'm
describing situations that some readers will find arousing, and i'm
specifically probing the emotions that accompany the acts; if i do
that well, then the reader will identify (to some degree) with those
emotions, and that should be even more arousing. hell, *i* get turned
on reading this stuff.
straight guys sometimes tell me that sex should be *easier* for gay
men (and lesbians), because then you understand what your partner
feels and what they want; many straight guys spend a lot of energy
coping with the question, "what do women want?", a question that's
hard to answer because they have so little insight into what it's
like to be a woman. so, they think, if guys only turned me on, half
the problem of having a satisfying sex life would be automatically
solved.
what i say in response to this is "yes, *but*..." part of what i'm
doing in describing these sexual scenes is filling out some of the
"but". (oh dear, filling out but. i'll just forge ahead.) you can
have a general idea of what gay men want and like, but still be
baffled by what *this* guy wants and likes, *now*. you can also be
ignorant, even deeply so, about what *you* want and like, *now*. and
neither of you probably has much clue as to *why* you have these
wants, desires, and preferences (starting with the question of why
you desire other men so poignantly). some of the "why" questions
simply have no useful answers, but some of them have partial answers.
dick thirsty, pornographer in the groves of academe
David W. Fenton
>so i do the run of the rooms, where (mostly) guys offer their
>dicks, and it is a total, multiple, disaster. i'm too old, too
>flabby, with too small a dick, whatever. who knows? i stop by
>the door, they shake their heads slightly, or they cover their
>dicks, or they even say something negative ("sorry", "not tonight,
>man", or the ever-useful "i'm just resting").
I don't quite get the problem here. Why is it "negative" to say
"sorry," in whatever form? Do you simply mean it's a way of saying
no?
Last night I was at the baths, had a great time, but there was one
guy who annoyed me. I generally play the role of "seller" in your
language (i.e., I sit in my room stroking my hard cock), though
many of the "buyers" are smart enough to see that I'm actually a
"buyer" myself. Those are the ones I want. And the ones I generally
get.
In any event, at some point a guy comes to my door. The lighting
outside is not great and I'm kind of ambivalent. He comes into the
room, grabs for my dick. I realize once I see him up close that he
just doesn't do it for me and say "sorry." He leaves, cursing and
swearing at me for rejecting him.
I have been rejected a lot, myself, and maybe I'd feel annoyed,
too, if I went into a room and was then told to leave. But
everyone has a right to say "no" at any point in the proceedings.
Also last night, a very, very cute young guy came into my room (he
was one of those types who wraps the towel around his waist and it
somehow ends up suspended about halfway down the round globes of
his luscious bubble butt; ARRGGHH!!), and I smile at him. I would
do anything he asked me to do, but I'm assuming, given the role I
was projecting, that he's a dickhound (at least for now), so I
offer him my cock, which he strokes and then bends over and takes
into his mouth. But I guess something didn't feel right to him, and
after a couple of strokes (just enough to get my dick good and
wet), he departs.
Perhaps if I'd pulled his towel off when he walked in the room and
chowed down on his dick, I would have gotten to have him for a
longer time. But I didn't want to cross a line that I wasn't sure I
was allowed to cross.
So, I was rejected.
But it didn't annoy me.
I *regretted* it, but it was hardly annoying.
How is it different from the guy who left my room cursing?
I guess it's because in the latter case, the guy who took the risk
also did the rejecting. That is, in the former case, the guy I
rejected took the risk of coming into my room, committing himself
to the admission that he wanted to have sex with me, and then after
making that admission, I rejected him. He was in the vulnerable
position and I had power over him. In the case of the cute young
boy with the strategically placed towel, he took the risk of coming
into my room, but he also took the action to reject me by leaving.
He was always in control, so there was no loss of control.
The boy was the "active" participant in the entire interaction,
with no real exposed vulnerability (aside from whatever might be
implied by taking my cock in his mouth). The man I rejected had
been chosen by me because I nodded him in (whereas the boy made the
eye contact and came in my room, without a nod from me), and then I
changed my mind.
At least, that's how I parse it.
I'm sorry that I rejected the older guy. Actually, no, I'm not. I'm
just sorry the light wasn't better so that I never would have
nodded him into my room in the first place.
But, heavens! The complexities of the roles, interactions and
communications, and all of it without a single word spoken!
--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
David W. Fenton
<77fa5ace.0212...@posting.google.com>:
>I've deleted your comment about like being attracted to like. I
>was dark-haired with light eyes and very pale skin, and the people
>who used to come on to me were more often Hispanic, Italian or
>Black. Other guys with Irish/British appearance seemed to have no
>interest. However, having grown up with dark Sicilian people and
>thinking they were extremely hot it may be that I just gave of
>very quick signs that dark people picked up on.
I, too, found the like-attracts-like comment out of step with my
personal experience. But Arnold was describing *them*, the cute
boys, who want only other cute boys like themselves.
I, too, tend to go for the Latino/black or exotic (though "hot" is
sufficient!), and I'm extremely fair. I think my very white (i.e.,
pasty) skin attracts a lot of darker men, or at least many of them
have commented to me on how much they love it.
Arnold Zwicky
<dXXXf...@bway.net> considers attraction by "type":
>protos...@hotmail.com (JEC) wrote in
><77fa5ace.0212...@posting.google.com>:
>>I've deleted your comment about like being attracted to like. I
>>was dark-haired with light eyes and very pale skin, and the people
>>who used to come on to me were more often Hispanic, Italian or
>>Black. Other guys with Irish/British appearance seemed to have no
>>interest...
>I, too, found the like-attracts-like comment out of step with my
>personal experience. But Arnold was describing *them*, the cute
>boys, who want only other cute boys like themselves.
exactly. it certainly doesn't work that way for lots of men.
>I, too, tend to go for the Latino/black or exotic...
this is an incredibly common preference in anglo guys.
i don't have a large enough sample, but i can speculate about what i
saw on my two recent visits to the baths. a fair number of latinos
paired with latinos. zero instances of an asian guy, of whatever
national origin, paired with an asian guy (and there were quite a few
at the baths). no black/black pairings, but then there are so few
black guys at these baths (always some, just never many) that they
probably wouldn't score if they limited themselves to black men.
my most recent visit had nothing describable as a pairing in it,
though plenty of sexual activity. the time before, i was involved in
four pairings. for the record, in order: white, chinese, black,
white. with an age range of about thirty years. two were incredibly
in shape, one ordinary, one a bit paunchy. in height, from several
inches shorter than me to several inches taller. very wide range in
dick length. three cut, one uncut. none of them had the body type of
my "fantasy man", though the black guy had the body type of jacques
and two other of my boyfriends, including my first, so that i'm very
fond of it. that's pretty much the list of physical descriptors,
right?
dick thirsty, about to make some feelthy collages
David W. Fenton
>in article <92EFA0AC2df...@24.168.128.78>, david fenton
><dXXXf...@bway.net> considers attraction by "type":
>
> >protos...@hotmail.com (JEC) wrote in
> ><77fa5ace.0212...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >>I've deleted your comment about like being attracted to like.
> >>I was dark-haired with light eyes and very pale skin, and the
> >>people who used to come on to me were more often Hispanic,
> >>Italian or Black. Other guys with Irish/British appearance
> >>seemed to have no interest...
>
> >I, too, found the like-attracts-like comment out of step with my
> >personal experience. But Arnold was describing *them*, the cute
> >boys, who want only other cute boys like themselves.
>
>exactly. it certainly doesn't work that way for lots of men.
I think it works that way only for certain types of men at certain
ages. If experience counts for anything at all, it seems that one
of the things one can learn is that you miss out on a lot when you
narrow your choices.
I was thinking the other day about what would have happened if I'd
had the nerve to go to the bathhouses when I lived in Cleveland. I
was surprisingly cute back then (at least, relatively speaking, in
comparison to how not-particularly-attractive I felt at the time),
so I might very well have had a marvelous time. But I was also much
more parochial in my attractions back then. Moving to New York
certainly opened up my eyes. Of course, I also aged a bit after
moving here, so maturity must have something to do with it, too.
> >I, too, tend to go for the Latino/black or exotic...
>
>this is an incredibly common preference in anglo guys.
For me, I'm not sure if it would be a completely natural internal
one. I find that I go for Latino/black/exotic because many of them
tend to go for me. In other words, if he finds *me* attractive,
then I find *him* attractive.
Naturally, this has its limits, but I do believe I started
considering the "exotics" as sexual partners largely after I
recognized that lots of them seemed to have the hots for me.
Of course, old trolls have always seemed to have the hots for me,
and constant exposure to that has done little to change my attitude
towards them. Of course, officially, I'm one myself, so perhaps
there's something odd going on there. . .
David W. Fenton
<868yycj...@my.bredbandsbolaget.se>:
>In article <92F0ABF62df...@24.168.128.78>,
>dXXXf...@bway.net (David W. Fenton) wrote:
>> For me, I'm not sure if it would be a completely natural
>> internal one. I find that I go for Latino/black/exotic because
>> many of them tend to go for me. In other words, if he finds *me*
>> attractive, then I find *him* attractive.
>>
>> Naturally, this has its limits, but I do believe I started
>> considering the "exotics" as sexual partners largely after I
>> recognized that lots of them seemed to have the hots for me.
>
>Isn't calling latino or black folks 'exotic' at best massively
>anachronistic?
It had quotation marks around it.
>Maybe they think you're the exotic one.
Indeed, I am. And that's much of the point.
Vernon Williams
robe...@bredband.net wrote on 12/26/02 5:02 PM:
> In article <92F0ABF62df...@24.168.128.78>,
> dXXXf...@bway.net (David W. Fenton) wrote:
>> For me, I'm not sure if it would be a completely natural internal
>> one. I find that I go for Latino/black/exotic because many of them
>> tend to go for me. In other words, if he finds *me* attractive,
>> then I find *him* attractive.
>>
>> Naturally, this has its limits, but I do believe I started
>> considering the "exotics" as sexual partners largely after I
>> recognized that lots of them seemed to have the hots for me.
>
> Isn't calling latino or black folks 'exotic' at best massively
> anachronistic?
>
> Maybe they think you're the exotic one.
>
> Robert
>
>
Hehehehe I think that we do. What is exotic is all a matter of who you ask.
I would think that someone who is Caucasian, Asian, or Latino as exotic.
When I travelled to Toronto, I recall getting cruised by cute men who were
(to me at least) exotic (cute Canadians!) an unusual experience for me as a
bearish guy of colour (don't ask!) But I figure that they probably thought I
was exotic, also an unusual experience, but sort of nice.
I must admit that I hate it when guys say things like, "I really like black
guys" though.
oy!
---
vern
Mike McKinley
> Hehehehe I think that we do. What is exotic is all a matter of who you ask.
> I would think that someone who is Caucasian, Asian, or Latino as exotic.
> When I travelled to Toronto, I recall getting cruised by cute men who were
> (to me at least) exotic (cute Canadians!) an unusual experience for me as a
> bearish guy of colour (don't ask!) But I figure that they probably thought I
> was exotic, also an unusual experience, but sort of nice.
> I must admit that I hate it when guys say things like, "I really like black
> guys" though.
In Latin America, I always have luck because I was the exotic one.
Or maybe it's my turban and the ruby in my navel.
--
邢 唷��