LCD Backgammon
Steve
www.thechesspiece.com at only $25.95
Here's a link directly to the product description
http://www.thechesspiece.com/proddetail.asp?prod=377
Hope this may be of interest to anyone interested in learning backgammon or
is very experienced at the game.
Mike Howard
Does anyone have an idea how this program compares for strength with
the Fish/Snowie/Gnu programs??? or perhaps a suggested ELO rating?
I was very impressed with the Excalibur Talking LCD Chess program
which is surprisingly strong (at least 1800 USCF - which is brilliant
for a tiny machine with limited hardware resources). So this one may
be good too.
I guess it has no analysis features but nevertheless for travel it may
be very useful??
Steve
The LCD Backgammon is a new product for us and I am not sure how it compares
with the others you refer to but will find out and post details at our site.
I am glad you liked the Talking LCD Chess (I assume it is the one we
supplied you from the US) and you are the Mike I am thinking of in the UK?!!
It's worth noting that we also have third party reviews at our site on
numerous Excalibut products which can be useful when deciding on what to
purchase.
"Mike Howard" <mi...@howard666.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c40114a8.03051...@posting.google.com...
Hank Youngerman
the poster should have given us some idea of the quality of the
product. Most readers of this board are skilled players, who would
not have any interest in a weak program.
The "ad" would have been a lot more convincing if you had, say, had it
play a series of matches and imported the results into Snowie and
publixhed its error rating. There have been some programs on the
market over the years that couldn't beat a housepet.
On Fri, 09 May 2003 15:36:10 GMT, "Steve" <ste...@thechesspiece.com>
wrote:
Mike Howard
> Given that this was a naked commercial advertisement, it seems that
> the poster should have given us some idea of the quality of the
> product. Most readers of this board are skilled players, who would
> not have any interest in a weak program.
>
> The "ad" would have been a lot more convincing if you had, say, had it
> play a series of matches and imported the results into Snowie and
> publixhed its error rating. There have been some programs on the
> market over the years that couldn't beat a housepet.
>
I looked at the Excalibur site and downloaded the manual for the
product.
In the rating blurb it says that it gives itself a rating of 1536 on
level 8 for the purpose of calculating the human's rating after each
game. Not necessarily definitive or accurate as we don't know the
maths it uses.... however, not an encouraging number for it's highest
level??
Maybe some rich guy over there can shell out $25 and tell us if it's
any good.
> >
Mike Howard
> Mike,
>
> The LCD Backgammon is a new product for us and I am not sure how it compares
> with the others you refer to but will find out and post details at our site.
>
> I am glad you liked the Talking LCD Chess (I assume it is the one we
> supplied you from the US) and you are the Mike I am thinking of in the UK?!!
>
> It's worth noting that we also have third party reviews at our site on
> numerous Excalibut products which can be useful when deciding on what to
> purchase.
>
> Steve
> www.thechesspiece.com
>
>
Thanks for that. I am really incredibly impressed with the Chess
machine you soldme (and the speedy delivery). I had give up waiting
for such a strong handheld LCD which was also very affordable. I
actually have to try surprisingly hard to beat the thing on it's
'easy' setting in rated play, it's no push over even at that level.
As someone below mentioned the guys here are boffins when it comes to
Backgammon. I'm sure most here will claim to be rated at least 1800+
( even if they are liars!!)
The PC programs now are world class and also have extensive analytical
features to display equity of all the moves and advise on cube play,
position setup, etc, etc. I think this is a way off for handheld
machines at present, though I don't see why it should be. If I had a
decent handheld which had say the features of JellyFish Tutor and
played at similar strength, I'd be euphoric.
Cheers,
Michael
Mogath3
>the Fish/Snowie/Gnu programs??? or perhaps a suggested ELO rating?
>I was very impressed with the Excalibur Talking LCD Chess program
>which is surprisingly strong (at least 1800 USCF - which is brilliant
>for a tiny machine with limited hardware resources). So this one may
>be good too.
I don't wanna burst anybody's bubble, but that LCD chess program is FAR from
1800 USCF. It is NOT suprisingly strong and if anyone other than a beginner
buys it, they will not be happy. It is not very much of a challenge even at
it's highest levels.
If the LCD backgammon is anything like the LCD chess, I'd pass.
Regards,
Jeff
Steve
The product has indeed an assumed Advanced rating of 1536 at level 8.
However, this strength admission isn't designed to mislead (or be an
exaggeration) as this is strong for a small hand-held device and apparently
(as I am informed) provides a challenge to 90% of the backgammon playing
community.
The unit has been on the market since the end of 2001 and well over 100,000
units have been sold. I quite agree that perhaps this isn't for the 'expert'
players that may use this newsgroup but it certainly is a suitable and
useful tool for those that aren't at this standard but who want to improve
and have the opportunity to entertain themselves when travelling, etc.
Steve
"Mike Howard" <mi...@howard666.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c40114a8.03051...@posting.google.com...
Steve
The new Talking LCD model 375V has a maximum playing strength estimated as
much as 400 Elo points over the original at around 1800.
We have sold many of these units and have never had anyone wish to return it
for reasons of lack of strength.
We have a third party review on this product if this is of interest.
http://www.thechesspiece.com/review375.htm
Steve
"Mogath3" <mog...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030512133916...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Mogath3
Yes indeed, that was the one I was talking about. I didn't realize that they
came out with a new LCD Chess.
>The new Talking LCD model 375V has a maximum playing strength estimated as
>much as 400 Elo points over the original at around 1800.
This one looks much more promising. So much so that I will go out and get one
and see if I can beat it up the way I did the other one. I like the way the
levels are laid out on the new too. Thanks very much for the info.
Regards,
Jeff
gandydancer
Sony Clie handheld. I find the computer opponent very challanging.
The software was written by Jordan Lampe, the same person who operates
Daily Gammon. The software is very intuitive is defitinely worth the
$25 or $30 it costs.
Mike Howard
Yes, but if one doesn't have a PDA to begin with it becomes quite an
expensive prospect unfortunately. A purpose built LCD Handheld for
$25 would be fantastic (if the strength was good). Does your program
have any analytical features ala JellyFish or Snowie? Does it include
match play??
Kind Rgds,
Michael
lymph
You really should check out the software. It does have analytical
features, tutor modes, and match play. You can have numerous players
stored and it will calculate their ratings. You can do rollouts on
it. You can export matches to other popular backgammon software (GNU,
etc.) If you're serious about playing backgammon in a portable
manner, Slapgammon is the best way I've found. You can probably pick
up a suitable Palm-OS PDA fairly cheaply. I bought mine used on eBay
and haven't had any trouble. Trust me, it's worth it. You might
find that you like having PDA features as a side benefit!
Mike Howard
Has anyone done independent comparisons on playing strength between
Slap and Jelly/Snowie??
Also how about battery life playing lots of Backgammon? Surely
Rollouts run the batteries down fast don't they?
Kind rgds,
MH
xvnvbn
> Slapgammon sounds good. Maybe I'll consider your suggestion.
> Has anyone done independent comparisons on playing strength between
> Slap and Jelly/Snowie??
>
I've been considering buying a pda too. An email from the programmer
says that Slapgammon is rumored to to be about jellyfish level 4. Which
is probably about 1650-1700 on fibs.
I've just posted instructions on how to try the game with a
simulator-try it out.
Could someone who has the game please runn some matches through
Jellyfish or Gnu to give us an idea of how strrong it is?
Thanks
Albert Silver
There is also a version of GNU Backgammon adapted for the Palm OS. One
can only play it at 0-ply due to the speed requirements, but since GNU
0-ply plays at 1900+ at Gamesgrid and FIBS, that's not too shabby.
I can't comment on its features as I have never used it, but it also
has the virtue of being free.
Albert Silver
Michael Howard
the features of course. Still have this nagging doubt about battery life in
PDAs though. Anyone advise on this in intensive game playing usage?
MH
"Albert Silver" <silver...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f9846eb9.03052...@posting.google.com...
Michael Howard
could be wrong!
MH
"xvnvbn" <xcv...@sdfhsdfh.hg> wrote in message
news:vcpds51...@corp.supernews.com...
xvnvbn
>
> There is also a version of GNU Backgammon adapted for the Palm OS. One
> can only play it at 0-ply due to the speed requirements, but since GNU
> 0-ply plays at 1900+ at Gamesgrid and FIBS, that's not too shabby.
>
> I can't comment on its features as I have never used it, but it also
> has the virtue of being free.
>
> Albert Silver
Never heard of this...Someone please tell where to get it
Thanks
MLeifer
A GNU-based program for the PocketPC is BGLiteCE
at
http://my.voyager.net/F7/80/rudnitsky/BGLightCE/
M.Leifer
GAMMON LINKS
http://www.chicagopoint.com/links.html